Foundation for Location Based Mobile Applications

[selfexile]

This thread aims to find/develop a foundation that can be used by
mobile-applications to get the location of the mobile user. This has
to be open and available to all mobile-developers without any carrier-
dependencies.

Background:
~~~~~~~~~
A few days ago google opened two programming techniques that can be
used by mobile (web) developers to get location of users. (http://
google-code-updates.blogspot.com/2008/08/two-new-ways-to-location-
enable-your.html).

1) a javascritp call to google api that in turn gets city/country via
the ip

2) new google gears geolocation api: "On mobile devices with Gears
installed, the Geolocation API can use the cell-ID of nearby cell
towers or on-board GPS (if either is available) to improve the postion
fix"

How Does Google Do it: (and how does MyLocation in google maps app
works)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Many phones with GPS connect to google maps application and share
their lat/long and cell-tower-ids. google has thus made an approximate
location data for cell-towers locations. And when a phone without GPS
loads google maps application, it is given MyLocation based on the
existing data collected via phones-with-gps. (http://
googlemobile.blogspot.com/2008/06/google-enables-location-aware.html)

Can We Use it for Pakistan
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, it wont work that well because most people have phones
without gps. And its unlikely that google has got the location data
for most cell-towers. Moreover, this google's api can only be used in
web-applications. (and gears geolocation api is only supported for
some handsets with Windows Mobile).

What Do We Need:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In simple words, we need a database of cell-tower-ids and their
locations. Technically this would be available as an api for
developers to use in their mobile applications. If telecom carriers
agree to share the ID's and Location info for their towers, a couple
of volunteers can develop the API and make it available for everyone.

Question for YOU
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If telecom cariers will agree to share this info? And how should we
talk to them? Are you willing to join me or help me in this? Any
suggestions or comments are most welcome.

// Sohail Abid
Founder -- IdeasHut -- http://ideashut.com

[Shakeel Ahmad]

Interestingly, i can use it pretty fine in PK on my BlackBerry. Not
sure about Warid but on Mobilink, without turning my GPS on, it gives
me radius of 1700 meters; With GPS turned on, it gives 3-7 meter
accuracy. In US without GPS it gives me 300 meters radius and 3 meter
for GPS based location.

[selfexile]

Shakeel, we are talking about the google location services offered to
developers. MyLocation works for me too (as a google-maps user) but
thats because I live in Islamabad and (at least) someone from my area
has (at least) once used google-maps with their gps-enabled device and
thus google got the location of the cell-tower near my home. But this
will not be situation for say small towns and villages. Google will
not be able to provide location of a cell-tower to a mobile-developer
in this case.

What I am proposing is an API that will enable a mobile-app to get the
location (lat/long plus province,city,region info) of the user who has
installed the application. This will open doors for a wide-variety of
applications. And the beauty of this will be that it will work for ALL
users regardless of the connection they use. (warid-location based
services work only for warid's users, for instance)

[Salman Ansari]

Great idea and needs to be examined in detail.

One suggestion: almost every phone can be put into a 'test mode' this
enables all the data about the Cell/BTS to be available including the server
cell info. If we can have someone write thin client which can use the
information available (e.g. cell site names linked to the location (e.g.
'Islamabad airport' currently displayed on java enabled phones) this could
be encapsulated into an SMS which can be sent to an aggregation site for
uploading to Google. So one does not need to have a GPS enabled blackberry
to map out the locations throughout Pakistan.

Can this be converted into a practical implementation? I know that we can
enlist the help of some cell phone companies for this purpose - SMS traffic
generation!

Salman

[Sajjad Zaidi]

A friend of mine was working on a Japanese service that utilized this, back in 2003. They had a number of restaurants and shops on board which would issue hefty discounts at various times of the day. Anyone subscribed to the service and in the vicinity at that time would get a discount code which they could use within the next 30 minutes.

Most places in Pakistan don't have the same kind of density, but it still is a great idea.

Sajjad
http://sajjadzaidi.com

[bmug...@gmail.com]

I suggested a similar service to one of the cellular operators in Pakistan. But I guess two things happened; either the service was not viable or they never opened the email I sent them :)

[Babar]

Mobile coupons (as Sajjad mentioned) are set to become a major
advertisement component. Of course, its driven by location. I am
working on a few of these products.

Location based services have been around for a while - the hype came
before the technology and market was ready - lots of VC money got
burned and there was not much real success in terms of profits etc.
But now it is here for real.

[Sohail Abid]

@Shakeel:

Great idea shakeel! This sms way can be pretty good. It wont require
the phone to get connected to GPRS. I was thinking I should develop a
small "volunteer app" that can send this same info to the servers
where it is processed and refined (this is in case telecom carriers
refuse to help us)

[Sohail Abid]

For real, for real this time :)

But it just hurts when we get to get hold of the "latest technology"
the same day it launches but the environment / infrastructure is not
ready in our locality :(

[Sohail Abid]

@Sajjad Zaidi:

Yeah! And thats only ONE use of the service. Just think "if" its here,
we can make many great ideas happen

On Aug 26, 2:56 pm, "Sajjad Zaidi" <sajjadza...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A friend of mine was working on a Japanese service that utilized this, back
> in 2003. They had a number of restaurants and shops on board which would
> issue hefty discounts at various times of the day. Anyone subscribed to the
> service and in the vicinity at that time would get a discount code which
> they could use within the next 30 minutes.
>
> Most places in Pakistan don't have the same kind of density, but it still is
> a great idea.
>

> Sajjadhttp://sajjadzaidi.com

[Sajjad Zaidi]

Off course. There can be so many possibilities "when" it happens here (I'm an optimist). Search and rescue operations, traffic updates, even localized announcements (such as those that currently happen via mosque loudspeakers in a lot of places) are some of the things I can think of.

There is also potential for abuse, but if these are on an opt-in basis, it should be a lot like subscribing to a news feed.

Sajjad
http://sajjadzaidi.com