Re: [TELCA08] Re: Important !!( about global warming)

[Kamlakar Rao]

Sorry boss.. Since you have raised the issue.

Let me put everything what you have written in steps;

WATER VAPOUR:

No one is saying that only CO2 is the reason behind everything, take a general Petrol reaction considering it as an alkane,

[Cn H2n+2] + 0.5(n+1) [O2] ---> n [CO2] + 0.5(n+1) [H2O]

So, now you must be convinced that burning Petrol produces water vapor which is a GHG. So, does many other fuels and chemical processes.

CARBON EMISSION:

If you know Kyoto Protocol and Carbon Credits, you shouldn't have raised this point. Because as per this, each and every GHG is converted to the number of CO2 equivalents and added to the total.

Eg:
1 NO (Nitric Oxide) is equivalent to 298 CO2,
1 CH4 (methane) is equivalent to 25 CO2 etc (Its a huge list).
Go through a CDM report for details.

In all CDMs (Clean Development Projects) under Kyoto Protocol the total CERs (Carbon Emission Reductions) or CO2 reductions are computed by taking the equivalent reductions of all GHGs and added to the TOTAL.

CO2 is used just as a terminology. Things are converted into its equivalents. Emissions is the right word.

I remember reading in my School days that Earth's atmosphere  contains 0.035 % CO2. This is the equilibrium amount but in the last few decades we've been burning CO2 trapped across Millions of Years as Fossil Fuels. 


POLITICS:

You think that except for The Biggie i.e.  United States every other country is a fool and getting in the trap set by US.

Let me remind you these countries comprise of Japan, Germany, UK, France etc, to be precise every other country except Australia. Companies in these countries are forced by their governments to pay money to buy CERs.

In US the government doesn't want their companies to pay this price, the reason being its the largest producer of GHGs, so by signing the protocol it is inviting a huge bill for companies based there.


DISPUTE RESOLUTION:

Certain climatic changes has been occuring since last few years which both of us agree with. People who invented the Solar variation themselves believe that its not the only reason for the Climatic Change, it explains only a small part of it. On the other hand there are thousands of literature supporting Global Warming.

But, atmosphere being a highly complicated system, nothing has been completely proved till date.

Neither am i a strict supporter of Global Warming. I am saying since nothing has been proved we should take steps to check all the possible reasons behind the cause. We cannot do anything for Solar variation but can definitely do for the emissions.

I've been in touch with these things since last 3 years and have done only few projects on Global Warming. Its better if you consult few Professors from Environmental Science Department, IIT Bombay for better insight. You may then propagate whatever you like too.

"Dont spread Controversial Theories unless its Proved".

Bade bade logon ne abhi tak kuch conclude nahi kiya how can u say its "FRAUD".


Cheers,

Kamlakar,

The Earth Club,
IIT Bombay

On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 6:34 PM, laxmi narain <aeron...@gmail.com> wrote:

dear friends ,

i think each of you possibly mistook me as if i was denying the very existence of global warming ( as kamlakar did). he ran out concluding that i have drawn conclusinons depending on few links i have listed in my previous mail or i think i missed out something to put my view clearly. my primary motive was to share this and put before my friends the other side of global warming. each one of you, i strongly believe is capable of finding the truth on his/her own and i am not advocating. let me open up a little bit on this.

i never meant that global warming doesnot exist nor does the listed links in my previous mail support that view. i am not blind to the fact. but what i am trying to get across is the false propaganda that "carbondioxide is the only major GHG(green house gas) driving the global warming phenomena and that humans are its major source/emitters". and i am not 'nullyfying' the 'true' kind of awareness about global warming.

note that carbon dioxide comprises of only 0.035 per cent of our earth's atmosphere and its a very weak GHG. its not the most important and powerful driver of global warming as propagated through media, celebrities, and political faces around the world. infact recent scientific researchers have concluded that water vapour is the most important GHG accounting for 97 per cent (1. http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/vapor_warming.html ;2. http://ijc.cgpublisher.com/product/pub.185/prod.13)and remaining GHG includes carbondioxide, methane (a powerful GHG in terms of infrared absopption) and other gases. other factors are volcanic eruptions below and above sea level), and number of wars throughout the world and still going on, even extratropical ocean currents are also thought of playing a role in global warming.

co2 emitted by humans is far less when compared to emitted by nature (1. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11638 ; 2. http://www.skepticalscience.com/human-co2-smaller-than-natural-emissions.htm) and take for example termites emit co2 many times that of  co2 emitted by today's industries and automobiles taken together all over the world. (http://ilovecarbondioxide.com/2009/04/termites-emit-ten-times-more-co2-than.html) ( also go through the paper :Genesis of Acetate and Methane by Gut Bacteria of Nutritionally Diverse Termites  Alain Brauman 1, Matthew D. Kane 2, Marc Labat 1, and John A. Breznak 2 ).in the last century
humankind has witnessed a rise in number of volcanic eruptions and there are many reasons for co2 accumulation in the atmosphere. so how can the american government blame the human kind as the sole entity for adding volumes of co2 into the atmosphere ?.

there is panic spread all around the world about rising sea levels, depleting ice sheets because of rise in temperature. but contrary to the ice sheet depletion, antartic ice sheet is growing and that is sufficient to lower sea levels !!(1. http://www.cpom.org/research/djw-ptrsa364.pdf ; 2. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517035,00.html---antartic ice is growing). ice shelves have been melting for ages and there has been fluctuations in temperature throughout history. its difficult to point a century where there was no temperature fluctuation on the planet. corrupt scientists have tried to convince the world that there were no temperature fluctuations in the past  but later their claims were denied by scientific community stating that their use of data and models were not accurate.

few selfish people, organisations and governments have created the panic using videos displaying melting of ice cliffs, polar bears unable to find food, cities like washington dc, london, mumbai and other coastal cities getting  submerged under water, river ganges drying up etc., and they used sensitive creatures on earth- children- for pushing their agenda. well!, submergence could come true, no one can deny the possibility if the sea level rises to  an extreme level. and that's why corporates have used this to create panic. now question for blood sucking corporates and bankers is who is to be blamed and blame effectively and how can we make money out of this oppurtunity !!?? the answers to all such questions is going on right before our eyes. we were made to feel guilty!! and we are told how to live on earth. they are trying to tame us just like they tamed the people of the whole world with well planned and well executed economic recession this year.

united nations intergovernmental panel on climate change (IPCC), which has been given(corruptly) the sole responsibility of finding 'who is to be blamed?' multibillion dollar question, has submitted its report. this report was nothing but policy for the benefit of corporations and bankers. it was a political document, a testimonial for corruption of science for political gain !!. (http://www.aaas.org/news/press_room/climate_change/media/4th_spm2feb07.pdf).

ipcc summary was not approved by scientists all over the world but by the UN political delegates and bureaucrats. the effects of global warming are not accurately predicted by climate models used by IPCC. IPCC used only a portion of the available atmospheric temperature data with no scientific reason for not using the entire data set.
(http://www.energypublisher.com/article.asp?id=11546).

now coming to kyoto protocol :

a note on carbon credit: carbon credits are nothing but certificates. these certificates are awarded by UN to developing nations for reducing carbon emission into the atmosphere. later these countries sell these certificates to developed countries for money.

what kamalakar stated about carbon credits is true to some extent. it is simple and easy to think that developing

nations are earning dollars.so what's the problem?..but think on the following questions ...think of american government which is hailed as the world saviour and obama, a world superman  !! he he he he... why not american government signed kyoto  protocol when its the same country which is spreading the panic about global warming around the world ?

 why only europeans are buying the carbon certificates( carbon credit is nothing but a piece of paper(certificte awarded by UN), sold to developed countries by developing nations)?

what would happen if developing nations run out or fall short of carbon credits specified by UN (legally bound)?

isn't there a flaw in in carbon credit that developed nations can claim that they are emitting 4000 tonnes of carbon  while in reality they are emitting 100000 tonnes?

why did g.w. bush take a u-turn on global warming? does not  he care about washington dc or new york city ?

why would a country invest millions of dollars in just buying a piece of crap(carbon credits)?

the main and important question why the hell United States has not signed protocol?


in the last i would say if people around the world are convinced that its only co2 that is polluting and heating up earth then there will be a day when each of us have to pay tax for breathing out co2!!..tax for using computers, tax for having pets, tax for using pure air, tax for using refrigerators and others u would never dare to dream when in sleep !!.


i would like to make it clear once again that i am a strong supporter of zero emission buildings(green buildings), energy efficient buildings, use of solar energy and wind energy not because it reduces co2 emission but because it makes us less dependent on water, coal ,nuclear energy and other materials. water and coal are limited resources and nuclear energy creation is again a big risky job. and i am aware of true face of global warming.


i have questions for kamalakar ...where would indian government dump all the nuclear waste coming from nuclear

plants that are yet to be constructed? and

why did america shut down most of its nuclear plants,recently ?

please reply only to me ...we may be spamming others mailbox!!


hope v will have a good future,
 EL

Remote Sensing
M.Tech.
IIT Bombay

On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Kamlakar Rao <kamlak...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dude... This is not it...

Dont conclude such serious things based on some incomplete information. Effectively you are nullifying the awareness spread amongst people.

The increased solar activity is a fact but it doesn't completely explain the increase in temperature in the last 50 years. Find the below literature again by the same Solanki for proof,

Both Muscheler et al. and Solanki et al. conclude that "solar activity reconstructions tell us that only a minor fraction of the recent global warming can be explained by the variable Sun.

1. ^ Solanki, Sami K.; Usoskin, Ilya G.; Kromer, Bernd; Schüssler, Manfred; Beer, Jürg (2004), "Unusual activity of the Sun during recent decades compared to the previous 11,000 years" (PDF), Nature 431: 1084–1087, doi:10.1038/nature02995, http://cc.oulu.fi/%7Eusoskin/personal/nature02995.pdf 

Whatever may be the case, many Indian Scientists have concluded that most of the North Indian Perennial rivers including Ganges will go dry starting some 30 years from now. So, making some assumption is highly risky.

There is a logic against the idea of Politics too. As per the Kyoto Protocol countries are divided into 2 groups, A and B. Countries in A category have higher per capita emissions and B countries have lower per capita emissions. A are supposed to pay money to B countries for purchasing Carbon credits. All rich coutries fall under A, while all developing countries including China and India fall under category B. So, in the entire process we are getting benefitted while the richer ones are losing their money.

World Political leader US has not signed the protocol along with Australia. Except for these 2 all others fall in either category A or B.

I am not supporting Global Warming. No one is sure of an alternative reason as of now. So, why should we take risk by concluding now and realizing later tht the conclusion was incorrect.


Cheers,

Kamlakar
The Earth Club,
IIT Bombay

On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 10:16 PM, laxmi narain <aeron...@gmail.com> wrote:

ELNarayana
Remote Sensing
M.Tech.
IIT Bombay

Hi, you must be aware of  global warming n its effects. you were also convinced that humans are major contributors to global warming and you were terrified reading/listening to the havoc it can create in the world.

but its not true!!....its a natural phenomena going on ..global warming  has happened in the past and is active now. its a "fear" created by moneychangers, world banks, political leaders for their own selfish motives. they want to push their economic and political agenda on the people everywhere in the world forcibly yet convincingly. to read/ watch more on this issue visit the links below.

http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2009/20090225213407.aspx
http://www.livescience.com/environment/070312_solarsys_warming.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/3325679/The-truth-about-global-warming---its-the-Sun-thats-to-blame.html

youtube videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzf6z-oHP8U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OE_E1b8zBzM

[Kamlakar Rao]

Anyways Sorry for spamming. I just wanted to throw light on the other side .

Sorry Laxmi. Nothing personal. :)

Cheers,
Kamlakar