N4L mamanged Network Upgrade

[Kevin Whelan]

Just got an email about some new service rolling out in 2019. Anyone got any details

[Craig Knights]

I did read something about Gb connections for all, but don't remember where..

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 3:48 PM, Kevin Whelan <kwhel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just got an email about some new service rolling out in 2019. Anyone got any
> details
>

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[Simon Wright]

From: https://www.n4l.co.nz/managed-network-home/#faq

Regards
Simon Wright
ICT Manager

Best for boys through the right learning
2 Arthur Street, Dunedin, 9016, New Zealand p: 03 477 5527 | f: 03 477 5468 | c: 021 773 229 | w: obhs.school.nz

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[Simon Wright]

While i could be completely wrong, i think they swapping out the Cisco unit for Fortigate units? or whatever spark have their expertise in.

Regards
Simon Wright
ICT Manager

Best for boys through the right learning
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[Julian Davison]

That would be an interesting swap.

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[Kevin Whelan]

so still managed by them?

[Simon Wright]

I would imagine so. I doubt Spark would let 'others' tamper with their equipment on their network.

Regards
Simon Wright
ICT Manager

Best for boys through the right learning
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[Sue Way]

Will be interested in what happens...

I currently have a Fortigate which is up for replacement Jan 2019.

I have been looking at my options but have put it all on hold to see what happens in this space.. 

Happy to spend 10 grand on something else...

Sue

[jan...@mags.school.nz]

A unit will be coming in here very soon. 

I am happy to answer real world questions for those curious? 

To be honest, I'm just looking forward to breaking past the ~600Mb limit of the older gear.  

[Clayton Hubbard]

Hi All.

FYI - We getting closer and here is a blog Greg has published - https://www.n4l.co.nz/managed-network-upgrade-its-time/

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Clayton Hubbard
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[Clayton Hubbard]

Hi All,

We have announced the replacement solution!!

https://www.n4l.co.nz/managed-network-upgrade-news-forty-gates/

Regards,

Clayton Hubbard

Solution Architect

The Network for Learning Ltd

M +64 22 043 0155  DDI +64 9 972 2906  P 0800 LEARNING

A Suite 306, Geyser Building, 100 Parnell Road, Parnell, Auckland 1052

A PO Box 37118, Parnell, Auckland 1151  n4l.co.nz

[Arnold Santos]

Any info which model/specs so we can have a good reading...☺

Arnold B. Santos
ICT Systems Administrator
Queenstown Primary School
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[Clayton Hubbard]

There will be more info available soon.  We will be using the “E” model series at this stage. Depending on the size of the school, an appropriate device will be used to handle both the user count and throughput.

https://www.fortinet.com/products/next-generation-firewall.html#models-specifications

We are in the process of completing our FAQ’s, so please let us know any questions you have and we can make sure these are answered.

Clayton

[Sue Way]

Thanks for the updates , great to see the chatter.

Our Fortigate appliance is up for replacement in Dec 2018 so fingers crossed I can keep it going till we get in the queue for replacement through N4L, I am sure it will keep ticking along as they just work...

Great that N4L have gone the Fortigate way..

Thanks Clayton for the heads up.

Sue Way | IT Services Director

Wellington Girls' College | Pipitea Street, Thorndon, Wellington 6011 |

[Landyn Frisby]

I definitely have some questions, and do hope they are answered. 

1.) What reporting tools will the school have access to? ie fortianalyzer 

2.) Will the school have any sort of access into the fortigate unit? We previously had fortigate installed at our school prior to N4L, so are well versed in their operation. 

3.) Will the clients be authenticated? Will the fortigate be integrated into our on premise AD?

4.) What will the SSL inspection be like and how will it be different to the current CCWS offering? Will we need to get a new certificate installed on all end user devices?

We are looking forward to this change as the difficulties of blocking/unblocking some services on CCWS has been a challenge along with the lack of AD authentication pass-through.

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Queenstown Primary School
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[Bevan McNaughton]

Busy starting a Cloud migration here to full AAD so a bit behind on portions of the conversation.

So basically instead of centralised filtering on the Cisco platform at N4L/Spark (outside onsite firewall/NAT rules), it will be all done onsite at the schools effectively with Centralised control instead? 

For those with AD integration already to Fortigates, do they support Azure AD?  

Cheers.

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[Mike Etheridge]

Not sure why centralised control would be necessary. Certainly not desirable.

Mike

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[Julian Davison]

Not uncommon in a managed service environment, central monitoring and issue resolution - particularly for an issue that will impact 'everyone'.

On 5 July 2018 at 13:37, Mike Etheridge <mi...@etheridge.co.nz> wrote:

Not sure why centralised control would be necessary. Certainly not desirable.

Mike

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Arnold B. Santos
ICT Systems Administrator
Queenstown Primary School
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Southland Girls' High School

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[Arnold Santos]

Still the same question as if we have access to the console, or it would still be sitting between an internal firewall?

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Southland Girls' High School

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[Keela Baty]

Unsubscribe

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 9:22 PM Clayton Hubbard <clayton...@n4l.co.nz> wrote:

 

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[Simon Wright]

Arnold, Its replacing the Cisco box, so if you have another firewall between it and your LAN, then nothing changes with that, unless of course you opt to not use another firewall and utilise N4Ls filtering on the new box.

Regards
Simon Wright
ICT Manager

Best for boys through the right learning
2 Arthur Street, Dunedin, 9016, New Zealand p: 03 477 5527 | f: 03 477 5468 | c: 021 773 229 | w: obhs.school.nz

Respect - Whakaute | Courage - Toa | Honour - Hōnore | Perseverance - Manawanui | Excellence - Hiranga

[Arnold Santos]

Hi Simon,  just wondering if we have an access to the box, we might not need the other one. Just a thought.

Regards,

Arnold

[Mike Etheridge]

My thinking too, Arnold. Right now we have a pfsense box between the LAN and the DMZ which has the Cisco box in it. This is so I can make changes to rules etc in a timely manner without having to wait for N4L to ask Spark to do it then report back, which is not really practical when testing things. But if we are able to manage the Fortigate appliance ourselves,we could put in on the LAN and cut out the pfsense box.

Mike

[Simon Wright]

Ok, only N4L can answer that, but i would speculate that there would only be limited control and would doubt command line access. Being that this is managed solution (by Spark) then they don't want others 'playing' with their equipment.

What would be nice to know is if N4L themselves will have better access to the boxes.

Regards
Simon Wright
ICT Manager

Best for boys through the right learning
2 Arthur Street, Dunedin, 9016, New Zealand p: 03 477 5527 | f: 03 477 5468 | c: 021 773 229 | w: obhs.school.nz

Respect - Whakaute | Courage - Toa | Honour - Hōnore | Perseverance - Manawanui | Excellence - Hiranga

[Josh Angel]

We have read only access to ours.

 

It’s enough to get by and see what’s going on at the moment. Much more visibility over the older gear.

 

Future may hold different cards if the guys get too annoyed with our constant changes to rules 😉

 

Josh Angel   |   Network Manager

JAn...@mags.school.nz help...@mags.school.nz

Alberton Avenue, Mount Albert, Auckland 1025

 

 

From: <techies-f...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Simon Wright <simon....@obhs.school.nz>
Reply-To: "techies-f...@googlegroups.com" <techies-f...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, 5 July 2018 at 2:12 PM
To: "techies-f...@googlegroups.com" <techies-f...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [techies-for-schools] N4L mamanged Network Upgrade

 

Ok, only N4L can answer that, but i would speculate that there would only be limited control and would doubt command line access. Being that this is managed solution (by Spark) then they don't want others 'playing' with their equipment.

 

What would be nice to know is if N4L themselves will have better access to the boxes.

Regards
Simon Wright
ICT Manager

Best for boys through the right learning

2 Arthur Street, Dunedin, 9016, New Zealand p: 03 477 5527 | f: 03 477 5468 | c: 021 773 229 | w: obhs.school.nz

Respect - Whakaute | Courage - Toa | Honour - Hōnore | Perseverance - Manawanui | Excellence - Hiranga

On Thu, 5 Jul 2018 at 14:06, Arnold Santos <arn...@queenstown.school.nz> wrote:

Hi Simon,  just wondering if we have an access to the box, we might not need the other one. Just a thought.

 

Regards,

Arnold

 

On Thu, 5 Jul 2018 at 13:59, Simon Wright <simon....@obhs.school.nz> wrote:

Arnold, Its replacing the Cisco box, so if you have another firewall between it and your LAN, then nothing changes with that, unless of course you opt to not use another firewall and utilise N4Ls filtering on the new box.

Regards
Simon Wright
ICT Manager

Best for boys through the right learning

2 Arthur Street, Dunedin, 9016, New Zealand p: 03 477 5527 | f: 03 477 5468 | c: 021 773 229 | w: obhs.school.nz

Error! Filename not specified.

 

 

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[Arnold Santos]

Spot on! Come to think of it, if you are a residential consumer, you have an access to your router your provider supplied to you. What would be the difference if you want to make some changes on your internal side, they can lock their side if it must. We are not after the other side, just our area where we need to have an access.

[Mike Etheridge]

That’s a shame actually. I went up to Aucks with the schools EO to visit some larger schools there to see how their BYOD was going, and they all had Fortigate appliances and in one case the DP was right into it and doing all sorts of useful management stuff. We decided to get this system ourselves, but N4L has caught up to us, we thought we would wait for them to buy one for us, seemed sensible. But if we won’t have access to the management features ourselves, seems a bit of a waste. I know that N4L think that school techs don’t know what they are doing  !-) but some of us would find it advantageous to be able to manage them ourselves. At east some aspects.

Mike

[Julian Davison]

To be fair to 'N4L' they don't have an official opinion on school techs.

They're contracted to provide a managed service that (potentially) includes filtering. Standard practice in providing such a service is to, well, manage it. Which means they control the settings which leads to them knowing how the box will behave, which translates into being able to hold them responsible for any faults.

Ask for access. If enough people do, and they don't currently provide it, the status quo may change so that you do have access to it. Keep in mind the vast majority of schools use N4L partly *because* it's managed. Like a managed copier, you plug it in, use it, and moan at the provider when it fails. This group is full of atypical personnel. Many here can cope and could make much better use of such a device. But that's not the majority of the customer base, so I expect the starting point being read-only (if that, though we have evidence that you do indeed get read-only access).

It doesn't mean that's how it has to stay - I'd suggest it remained the default, regardless, however.

Mike

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Queenstown Primary School
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Southland Girls' High School

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[Mike Etheridge]

And, also to be fair, N4L did provide training resources for the aspects of the current system that schools are able to manage, and pretty good support. Just the problem with changes having to be asked for by phone or in (e)writing, and then the wait while Telecom Spark did something about it.

Mike

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[Jonathan Webster]

We've received consistent feedback that schools and ICT providers would like better access to make self-service config changes, so we've been working very hard to make that a reality. As mentioned before - the exact details will come soon, but I believe you'll be happy :) 

Mike

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[Julian Davison]

Look at that, it worked 😉

[Bevan McNaughton]

Centralised control:
Partly for firmware management and for N4L to make changes for schools without tecchys there. 

Also pattern monitoring, etc. 

Maybe Centralised Administration/monitoring would be a better term..?

Mike

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[Patrick Dunford]

Hey, you take the "free" government solution and you put up with its limitations and restrictions and whatever backroom deals have been done with some big company etc. if they come out and mandate your students wireless network has to be turned off at 6 pm every night to save on capacity then that is what you end up with.

[Patrick Dunford]

You know what? When it used to be schoolnet or whatever the name of the old one that Telecom ran for some schools that was funded by the Ministry way back when, and people asked were they going to be subject to the same regime on N4L, because the biggest concern we had then was it being centrally managed and schools that needed specific configuration exemptions couldn't get them without paying Telecom at commercial rates to get any changes in.

[Simon Wright]

Arh good old SchoolZone, gotta love that 256kbps bandwitdh.

Regards
Simon Wright
ICT Manager

Best for boys through the right learning
2 Arthur Street, Dunedin, 9016, New Zealand p: 03 477 5527 | f: 03 477 5468 | c: 021 773 229 | w: obhs.school.nz

Respect - Whakaute | Courage - Toa | Honour - Hōnore | Perseverance - Manawanui | Excellence - Hiranga

Mike

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[Tim Harper]

We actually got SZ up to 2Mb/s up and down on copper back in the day.  It did start at dual 128kb/s frame relays in far flung places like Roxburgh and Ranfurly but most initially had at least 512k.  Later we even got SZ delivered over fibre here in Wanaka and I remember we had a demo fibre circuit at the Christchurch Convention centre - that router is now landfill somewhere I suspect.  We also were able to get SZ offered to many schools via their ADSL connections too.  Yes there were limitations but for many schools with no tech support and no need to make daily configuration changes to firewalls etc it served a purpose.  We all knew it was limited and we all knew we needed something better but it was the best that many could get at the time.

regards,

Tim Harper


Phone 03 443 5167 (messages cannot be left on this number)
Mobile 027 443 1236

t...@mtaspiring.school.nz
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[Simon Wright]

Or was it 2Mbps?

Regards
Simon Wright
ICT Manager

Best for boys through the right learning
2 Arthur Street, Dunedin, 9016, New Zealand p: 03 477 5527 | f: 03 477 5468 | c: 021 773 229 | w: obhs.school.nz

Respect - Whakaute | Courage - Toa | Honour - Hōnore | Perseverance - Manawanui | Excellence - Hiranga

On Mon, 16 Jul 2018 at 16:15, Simon Wright <simon....@obhs.school.nz> wrote:

[Pete Mundy]

And $600 per pin-hole! The good old days ;)

At least now it's all hidden behind opaque commercial agreements so we no longer need be burdened with the knowledge of such things.

[Tim Harper]

No it wasn't $600 per pinhole Pete!

It was $150 for a configuration change on the firewall and you could aggregate lots of things into one request.  I was the one who had to manage the requests from the schools and enter them into Wireline.  (Ahh - Wireline - a cursed tool if ever there was one.) 

regards,

Tim Harper


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www.mtaspiring.school.nz

[Craig Knights]

Think we had 2Mb/s both ways on SZ. It went well.

I started at JMC in 2002. We had 64kb. Think it was 1 channel of an isdn?

[Julian Davison]

We had what they called 2Mbps, but which was actually 1Mbps 'burstable up to 2Mbps'.

For actual usable speed the adsl we had (which IIRC, was 6Mbps down 500ish kps up) ran rings around it. 

It was a huge improvement over leased dial up, and "out sourcing" the filtering was well worth it. 

J, 

[Patrick Dunford]

Hey look I can remember when the cheapest internet option a school I worked with could get was Clearnet 256K which was flat rate. They paid for a faster connection charged in 20 GB blocks, but that slow flat rate option did look attractive.

[Nick Steenson]

Insane ping though, what's that, about 15 days?

* Waits patiently *

Nick

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[Dave Winter]

— E X C I T I N G — we are all looking forward to this in the Manaiakalani and outreach schools. One thing I am particularly interested in understanding is how the filtering/reporting will work at an individual level. The Cisco Websense environment had limitation for google schools in that they had to be using active directory sync to have individual level info available. Is there a chance to peek under the fortigate hood any time soon? Another Bog post ?  . Thanks for this step up Mucho Gracias