Vote for VP page uses awful vote-for-one plurality voting

[Barry Rafkind]

How about if we switch the Vote for VP page to use a score voting 1-10 system that would be simple yet expressive?

Or at least, we should switch it to approval voting like the One Mission page.

[Clay Shentrup]

It's generally recommended to use a 0-based scale like 0-5 or 0-9. ScoreVoting.net/Why99.html

[Manuel Hurtado]

I like that idea

[Barry Rafkind]

Sure! It seems like the Vote for VP page is getting a lot of mentions in news articles about the campaign now, so it would be great to improve it asap!

Any preference on whether a SV ballot is presented as numbers or symbols? Stars (icons) seem quite popular, especially online.

Since the main site is done in WordPress, how about we use a plugin like https://polldaddy.com/features/#ratings which supports ratings via stars (customizable) to rate the VP candidates?

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[Barry Rafkind]

Great suggestion, Manuel! :-)

On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 9:31 AM, ManueL <mahur...@gmail.com> wrote:

true:

If the proposal were to become law, Lessig has said he would step down as president and let his vice president run the country. He has not yet said publicly who that person would be. by @deep_beige via @IBTimes

I prefer stars rather than giving numbers... I'd enjoy rate VPs using an emoji rating system? *clicks on Clinton ::vomits::

sorry for the explicit content 😇

[Barry Rafkind]

Too bad that plug-in is only for pages and can't be embedded for polls inside a page.

On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 9:36 AM, ManueL <mahur...@gmail.com> wrote:

I found this plug-in Demo

https://wordpress.org/plugins/voting-platform-feelbacks/

2015-09-07 8:31 GMT-05:00 ManueL <mahur...@gmail.com>:

true:

If the proposal were to become law, Lessig has said he would step down as president and let his vice president run the country. He has not yet said publicly who that person would be. by @deep_beige via @IBTimes

I prefer stars rather than giving numbers... I'd enjoy rate VPs using an emoji rating system? *clicks on Clinton ::vomits::

sorry for the explicit content 😇

2015-09-07 1:57 GMT-05:00 Barry Rafkind <barry....@gmail.com>:

[Barry Rafkind]

Yeah, integrating Twitter mentions of VP candidates would be cool, too!

On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 11:17 AM, ManueL <mahur...@gmail.com> wrote:

😕 damn plug-in!

Good thing about this campaign: What matters is the Idea not the candidate, hehehe

Another Idea, make that star (emoji or whatever) vote social example and the same dev can be used to what other issue the VP needs to address next (after the first Referendum PotUS steps down -what a sad day-...)

[Manuel Hurtado]

Also, being such an important matter for the campaign and a repetitive question among the media and normal people, the VP vote should have its own independent page such as 

• One Mission

 

• The Plan

 

• The Goal

 

• Take Action

 

• Meet Lessig

 

• Vote4VP           More

[Aliya Bhatia]

Sorry to jump in late and be the nth comment on this. Just from a survey methodology perspective, it's not fair to the user that the VP names are not randomized. There may be noise created from someone saying something like "oh, Elizabeth Warren is at the top because Lessig wants her to be on the ballot," rather than people actually thinking through who they would  want to be president after Lessig steps aside. Randomizing is the safest way to avoid that bias. 

(Note that I'm perfectly content if it doesn't get randomized, I just don't think it would be fair to say that whoever gets the most votes is actually who people would have selected if the choices were in a random order). 

I also strongly agree with the above comment that the VP page should be clearly visible from the home page. It is a really important part of the whole campaign. I actually thought the "2 presidents for the price of 1" messaging from a few weeks back was a compelling way to engage people on that aspect. 

Warmly,

Aliya

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Cheers,
Aliya

[Barry Rafkind]

Great ideas for both making the VoteForVP page a top-nav link (Manuel) and randomizing the VP picks (Aliya)! All these ideas about the would easily extend to the issues page.

Aaron Lifshin, your thoughts on making changes to the WP site or granting others edit permission there?

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[Ryan Schultz]

If this method is indeed going to be used to determine Lessig's VP, then i think it imperative that the method and technology behind the voting mechanism be as transparent as possible. 

Something, on par, with Blockchain technology, for example. 

A voting approach, so transparent, that it could actually inform national voting at some point.

Would also suggest Steven Brams' work

In particular:

Mathematics and Democracy: Designing Better Voting and Fair-Division Procedures 

http://www.amazon.com/Mathematics-Democracy-Designing-Fair-Division-Procedures/dp/0691133212/ref=la_B001IZRDTW_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1441731582&sr=1-7

Godspeed.

[Barry Rafkind]

Agreed with Ryan regarding transparency.

"If this method is indeed going to be used to determine Lessig's VP..." will this online poll be the only or main factor in the VP pick? What other factors or process would be used (e.g. national polls, debate performance, alignment with Lessig's platform)?

I'm eager to read Brams' book, but based on its summary, it looks like he advocates for approval voting which while certainly a big improvement on plurality, is less expressive than score voting (assuming > 2 tiers).

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[Austin Fatheree]

Hasn't Lessig said that he will let the convention decide the VP?

[Mark Roberts]

I prefer alternative vote system.  However, ideally there would be a fixed list of candidates agreed before voting begins.  I also think the order of candidates should be randomized for each page view to remove any bias from the order in which they are displayed.  Perhaps there needs to be a two stage process. Start off with the current page for generating a set of 10 candidates (10 names with most votes), then fix the list and use the  alternative vote system to select a single VP candidate.  Generating a fairly serious bio on each candidate is important as well.  

At the moment the method of selection of the VP has not been given the thought it deserves if Lessig is serious about trying to win.

[Aaron Lifshin]

The online poll is just a poll to convey the idea that the vp is the people's decision.

It is, of course, not there to drive decision-making.

The vp well be picked by a combined decision of all democratic voters and decided at the convention, as Lessig has stated.

A

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[Vince Wallace]

If that's the case that needs to be way clearer.  We were talking in another thread about how the online VP poll is either going to be used to drag down our narrative or used to drive it home - defeating the "green primary".   I'd love to see some YT vids added of each of the "candidates" making our point.  Clips of each of those figures talking about campaign finance, democracy, equality, etc, you know?  It's a big time opportunity. 

Great job today Claremont team!

Vince

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From: aaronl...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 12:16:24 -0700
Subject: Re: {TL Tech} Re: Vote for VP page uses awful vote-for-one plurality voting
To: barry....@gmail.com
CC: teamles...@googlegroups.com; theor...@gmail.com

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[Manuel Hurtado]

+1 to Aaron

The Poll is the poll & The VP is not Lessig's decision.

For the system, we can emulate Flattr if a voter wants to distribute the single vote among more than one candidate (would be cool if they can nominate anyone form their SM contacts)

I nominate Vince

[Barry Rafkind]

Aaron, why not explain on the VP page the exact method by which the VP will be picked? If that process hasn't been clarified, how will it be? Those of us on the tech list (and probably generally among Lessig's supporters) seem to be interested in joining that discussion. Perhaps we should have a Google group for campaign strategy/policy/process. That would also give us a forum to discuss the merits/concerns of each candidate.

I agree with Vince that "the online VP poll is either going to be used to drag down our narrative or used to drive it home" ... therefore we ought to have it reflect what we're about. For one thing, it shouldn't use vote-for-one (plurality).

By the way, Manuel, Flattr (distributed micro-donations) is similar to Score Voting in the way that one's support can be distributed variably among all choices.

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[Vince Wallace]

I'm honored. But I feel I'm probably better qualified for the role of "anger translator".

Agree on transparency suggeations fwiw.

Vince

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From: Manuel Hurtado
Sent: ‎9/‎10/‎2015 12:28 AM
To: teamlessigtech

[Aldon Hynes]

Allow me to hop in, introduce myself, and offer a few thoughts.

I was very active in Deanspace, the social media software for Gov. Dean's presidential campaign back in 2003 and was a credentialed blogger at the 2004 Democratic National Convention in Boston.  I'm very excited to help Lessig's campaign in any way that I can.  I'm also a member of the Democratic Town Committee where I live and have run twice for State Rep.

Aaron is right to note that ultimately, the decision about the VP is made by the delegates at the convention.  In the recent era of uncontested conventions, the Democratic nominee makes the choice about the VP nominee with the advice of party leaders and the VP nominee gets approved.  It gets much more complicated when you start exploring the process whereby delegates are selected, committees, like the rules committee and the credentials committee is formed, etc.  It is a process that remains too opaque and too prone to influence pedaling.

Barry makes a couple important points that I think should be considered.  Yes, I think a Google group for campaign strategy/policy/process is a very good and important idea.

The online VP poll does have great potential to help or hurt the process.  So, how does this happen?  From a communications perspective there are a couple things to consider.  First is the message that you want to get out.  I think that explain how a VP will be picked and providing tools so that more people can participate in the process fits very nicely with the idea of Fixing Democracy First.  We need to make the whole political process more transparent and less influenced by the weathy and well connected.

The second idea, from a communications perspective is what the 'master narrative' will be.  As much as we have a message that we want to get out, so will the media.  During Gov. Dean's campaign, his message was boiled down to 'You have the power'.  The traditional press corps did not take well to that message, and in Iowa wore shirts saying "We [the mainstream press] have the power."  What master narrative will emerge around Lessig's campaign?  How will the mainstream press help or hinder Lessig's campaign?

It is with this as a caveat that I present an idea which has been kicking around in my head since my drive up to Claremont.  In many ways, the rest of the presidential candidates appear to be either reality television characters or brands being marketed.  Are you watching Trump in the Real Presidential Candidates show to see which candidate gets voted off the island next?  Are you going to buy Clinton, Sanders, or Bush?  Lessig's campaign is different.  Lessig is running a campaign to transform our political system back to its democratic ideals.  Lessig is a professor and has a professorial tone.

How do we explain the process of a selecting a VP candidate?  How do we explain the importance of fixing democracy first?  How can people explore more deeply if they are interested?  My thought is that we should be exploring the idea of a Lessig MOOC.  I realize this may feed a master narrative of Lessig the professor which has both pros and cons.  What do you think?

Aldon