RE: :: TALO :: Re: Is TAFE going to ban Web 2.0?????

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Cooke, Judith

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Nov 15, 2005, 9:51:34 PM11/15/05
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Google groups and google images are blocked also.

My class this morning was severely disrupted. We use these tools routinely in class. I spent the whole class apologisingg and doing creative problem solving.

I am so frustrated. I made several calls over the holidays to get our images back on blogs.

Is it going to be unstable, unreliable and a constant battle.

Jock have you got any solutions?

Regards Jude

 

 


From: teachAndL...@googlegroups.com [mailto:teachAndL...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Grady, Jock
Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2005 01:21
To: teachAndL...@googlegroups.com
Subject: :: TALO :: Re: Is TAFE going to ban Web 2.0?????

 

It’s not only blocking Web 2.0 but also seems to be blocking at least some sites with .com domain and url forwarding.

 

 

Regards

 

Jock Grady

 

Manager, LearnScope NSW

 

-----Original Message-----
From: teachAndL...@googlegroups.com [mailto:teachAndL...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sean FitzGerald
Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2005 12:10 PM
To: teachAndL...@googlegroups.com
Subject: :: TALO :: Is TAFE going to ban Web 2.0?????

 

Via Stephan Ridgeway of Sydney Institute of TAFE NSW:

Subject: web filtering service

Hi all,

Remember the email I sent out regarding the load test for the webservices “web filtering service” planned for next year. Well it on today till 5:00pm. I have placed a copy of the email sent out to regional staff at the bottom of my email.

By now many of you would have noticed and many of the sites which utilise web 2.0 technologies are blocked by the filtering service. This new filter is planned for deployment across DET/TAFE for next year, it will replace the DET sheriff.

From a limited scan it appears these web services are blocked

www.blogger.com
myspace.com
http://www.ourmedia.com/ although http://archive.org/ is fine
www.flickr.com
radio.weblogs.com/

We need let ITD know that blocking core web 2.0 technologies will have an adverse effect on educational strategies.

 We should set up a wiki, not blocked as yet, to network the issues and compile a list of sites affected.

The filter will be switched back to the DET sheriff @ 5:00pm this afternoon.

Steph.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
eLearning account project - Network and internet access load test

Audience

Regional ITMs

State Office Support Managers

ITD Managers (Networks, Applications, Technical Systems and Corporate Systems)

Aim of the testing

DET needs to determine if the Unisys network, systems and the web filtering service can cope with an increased load. This test will produce a load of approximately 100Mbps peak throughput to Unisys, at approximately 3000 concurrent sessions. This is about 20% of the full DET load, but will be sufficient to demonstrate the capability.

Internet filtering will be cut over from our current provider, MCI. The cut over will forward all Corporate and TAFE site users accessing the internet to Unisys using a central configuration point that can be easily rolled back, with no onus on site owners to reconfigure anything. The major risk is that should problems arise, all Corporate and TAFE users internet web-browsing functionality may be affected for a short period.

The test is being run on Wednesday, 16 November, 2005 between the hours of 7.30am and 5.30pm.


Target Users

The target users are State Office staff across all regions and TAFE sites. Users will not be advised of the change.

Reporting of problems

Managers

Regional ITMs, State Office Support Managers, ITD Networks, AAG, Education Systems and Corporate Systems Managers should report only serious problems directly to Steve Junor on 9942-9810. All other problems should be reported to the Web Services Helpdesk on 1800 555 950.

Users

Users will follow standard procedures for reporting problems experienced during test times by calling the Central Helpdesk on 1800 338 483

Management of problems

It is essential that you advise Steve Junor of any business critical internet access that is required during the test times by cob Monday 14/11/05.

Please contact Steve Junor  9942 9810 or Warren Avery 9244 0043 if you need further information.

Grant Wargren

Mgr, Learning Systems Development

9244 0011

 
Stephan Ridgway

R/ eLearning Coordinator,
Learning and Innovation
TAFE NSW, Sydney Institute
Ultimo, Bldg D,  Room DG 40, 2007
Ph: (02) 9217 3763
Fx: (02) 9217 3620

stephan...@tafensw.edu.au

--
 
Sean FitzGerald
Tel: +61 (0)2 9360 3291
Mob: +61 (0)404 130 342
Skype: seamusy
Web: http://seanfitz.wikispaces.org/
 
The great man is he who does not lose his child's heart.
-- Mencius (371-291 B.C.)
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This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain
privileged information or confidential information or both. If you
are not the intended recipient please delete it and notify the sender.
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James Neill - Wilderdom

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Nov 15, 2005, 10:02:38 PM11/15/05
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i might add that this kind of stuff is just one of the many reasons i have put my foot down and and now work from home unless i am face-to-face teaching or there for consultation hours, on-campus meetings, etc. (which adds up) - the downtime and difficulty in using certain software / getting access to configurability, troubleshooting, etc. combined with stupid firewall net protection type stuff from big orgs causes huge downtime, frustrating and inefficiency
 

Trevaskis, Maria

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Nov 15, 2005, 10:07:32 PM11/15/05
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Thanks you to everyone for this information.

 

I have a meeting with our ICT on Monday to discuss open source and I have put open source on the agenda for the State forum for Flexible Learning Coordinators.

 

I am not promising any progress however have started the communication and to put the case for TAFE NSW. You may all realise that these blocks are being built for schools and not TAFE however as one system and as TAFE is the smaller part of DET we sometimes have less of the weight in making changes.

 

Of course the main driver is child protection.

 

 

Maria Trevaskis

A/Director Educational Development

117 Henry St

Penrith. NSW 2750

Ph: 47248282

Fax: 47248252

Mobile: 0438407309

 


Cooke, Judith

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Nov 15, 2005, 10:24:02 PM11/15/05
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Great to have you batting for us – thanks

Jude

 


Grady, Jock

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Nov 15, 2005, 10:30:45 PM11/15/05
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I’m currently writing a submission to the head of ITD (IT Directorate for DET NSW) on behalf of LearnScope and ICVET (International Centre for VET Teaching and Learning) re these types of issues and particularly the DET Firewall.  At this stage we’ve support from a number of senior TAFE people including Institute Directors and Institute IT Managers, so I’m rather hopeful something positive may come from it.

 

I’d be interested for anyone with particular issues re groups of sites or types of applications that are being restricted in getting in touch with me.

 

 

Regards

 

Jock Grady

 

Manager, LearnScope NSW

ICVET - TAFE NSW International Centre for VET Teaching & Learning

Meadowbank College

Meadowbank  NSW  2114

Phone:  (02) 9448-2303

Mobile:  0425-246-613

Fax:      (02) 9448-2334

Email:   jock....@det.nsw.edu.au

Web:    http://flexiblelearning.net.au/learnscope/

 

Cooke, Judith

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Nov 15, 2005, 10:36:38 PM11/15/05
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Good on you Jock – you give us hope!!

I use blogs in most of my classes, a class blog and students blogs are linked to the class blog.

I also use blogs for LearnScope Projects and have started using Google groups (DCS project until we get clearance for blogs.) Am happy to communicate further if you wish

Lorriman, Tony

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Nov 15, 2005, 11:23:13 PM11/15/05
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I use Yahoo groups, MSN Messenger for chats and blogs.  Being in it is also particularly hard to show software installation or use trial versions of specific software for very short stints because the machines are locked down so tight.

 


James Neill - Wilderdom

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Nov 15, 2005, 11:40:45 PM11/15/05
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amazing, isn't it, how the local parallels the global..... ?
 

Kylie Rowsell

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Nov 16, 2005, 12:03:35 AM11/16/05
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Hi,
Anyhow, on the DET system. Maria rightly points out that it is child protection related.
How will lobbying for use of blogs/web2.0/etc fit with that?
Are we able to furnish the ITD folks with any support in that regard?
That is, "If you allow blogs thru the new system, it won't impinge on child protection because..."
 
They are not going to release the use of these technologies, even if educationally sound, unless there is a way around the big issues of child protection.
Our power is not in telling them what technologies we want to have access to, but how they can do it soundly.
 
Probably unrelated...
anyone seen the new Workplace Surveillance Act?
My workplace has stepped into line with relevant net nanny type software. The other day I was blocked from BBC news.
Eh, reasonable work use, gah.

Thanks,
Kylie
 
ph: 4978 4016

 


From: James Neill - Wilderdom [mailto:ja...@wilderdom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 16 November 2005 3:41 PM

To: teachAndL...@googlegroups.com
Subject: :: TALO :: Re: Is TAFE going to ban Web 2.0?????

rgrozdanic

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Nov 16, 2005, 12:33:25 AM11/16/05
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well said, kylie - that's exactly what the issue is - just like most people, they're just trying to do their jobs well and child protection is a biggie (one that really has no final solution though it's admirable that they try), but there must be ways to resolve the issues raised here and that will only happen in a dialogue that isn't confrontational and accusatory.  there are definitely enough senior people in tafe now who are web 2.0 compatible and in a position to influence things so that a sensible outcome is possible.

maybe they should just give everyone (including students) a cheap laptop and just focus on providing wifi services, tech support and access to "safe' shared folders/systems for staff for any stuff that warrants existence behind closed virtual doors.  cos it's eventually going to come to that anyway.

the dust storm in tunisia is good.  i'd be alarmed if these things were straightforward or didn't attract a broad range of views, passions and opinions.  it's complex stuff and i feel safer knowing that people are grappling with these complexities*.    and sometimes the argy bargy actually brings up all sorts of things you'd never have thought of or learned if you hadn't gone through the process.

rose

(* i wish there was a tad more grappling and navel gazing going on in the fields of biotechnology, nanotechnology, "security" et al where i sense a definite dearth of open dialogue, reflection and information sharing....).

Leigh Blackall

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Nov 16, 2005, 3:57:20 AM11/16/05
to teachAndL...@googlegroups.com
Similar to Jude, I too had a group of young kids for 4 hours. We couldn't do anything!! No Flickr uploading, no blogging, no moblogging, no googleVideos NOTHING. I left the room to yell at people, when I got back, the boys were happily watching porn animations and downloading games. The filter was still in effect, but through persistant trial and error, they had found quite a few sites that were open.

Eg. www.hairyshit.com

Another strategy they employed was to use Google Translate to get around the filter. It worked some of the time. None of us could get blogger, flickr or Googlevideo to work.

FILTERING IS A JOKE! I THOUGHT ONLY CHINESE GOVERNMENTS DID IT!!
--
Leigh Blackall
+61(0)247827637
skype - leigh_blackall
http://leighblackall.wikispaces.org/

Leigh Blackall

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Nov 16, 2005, 4:25:38 AM11/16/05
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I really like Rose's suggestion,


maybe they should just give everyone (including students) a cheap laptop and just focus on providing wifi services, tech support and access to "safe' shared folders/systems for staff for any stuff that warrants existence behind closed virtual doors.  cos it's eventually going to come to that anyway.

though I suspect we'd have a better chance of getting people freeing up the net for our kids to learn for real then we would getting people to hand out laptops and provide open WiFi!! Not to say we shouldn't push hard for this vision!

Why can't me (a child protection cleared teacher) have a key to ulock what is blocked so that my classes may go on uninterrupted. If I had a key, I could help lock out sites like hairyshit.com that somehow manage to slip under the wall... would I do that?... I had such an interesting day today, watching in disbelief as those boys pulled up all sorts of crap! At the end of the day, we had quite a interesting discussion about it. They learned so much more accessing it than not I'd say. Very reflective they were... so interesting to see!

rgrozdanic

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Nov 16, 2005, 4:31:22 AM11/16/05
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leigh your students have shown admirable levels of ingenuity, problem solving, humour and good sense.

any response or case made to the department surely must include anecdotes like this (without identifying anyone in any way) to show them that they'll never solve their problems until they are prepared to let others contribute to the development of a solution.

r

ps i'll bet you $5 that you could have reached blogger or flickr by using google cache files. :-)    nice work with the use of google translate, though - i'd never have thought of that.

rgrozdanic

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Nov 16, 2005, 5:11:57 AM11/16/05
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this reminds me of something sean talked about at homebush earlier this year

as a teacher it really should be left to you to take responsibility for the what happens in the classroom (whatever that word means), including dealing with whatever arises, just like always.  your description of how you handled the situation today is pretty close to the point sean was making where you can't contol the world so you instead appropriately facilitate whatever inadvertently comes up.  and sometimes what comes up can be turned into a powerful learning opportunity that helps the student become more competent in navigating the world outside the classroom or learning something about themselves/others or some other positive outcome.

what is it with this creeping universal trend towards surveillance and rooting out all evil at all costs (even if that involves using some of the same techniques we call evil)?  slashdot ran a couple of items today that really startled me. (forgive the copying and pasting - they say it better than i can)

<<quote>>
1)  The UK Police are building a network to monitor the movement of every vehicle in the U.K. through an extensive Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) system. The data will be retained for 2 years. The Register further reports that the system will likely be used for issuing speeding fines." From the article: "The primary aims claimed for the system are tackling untaxed and uninsured vehicles, stolen cars and the considerably broader one of 'denying criminals the use of the roads.' But unless the Times has got the spacing wrong, having one every quarter of a mile on motorways quite clearly means they'll be used to enforce speed limits as well, which would effectively make the current generation of Gatsos obsolete. Otherwise, checking a vehicle's tax and insurance status every 15 seconds or thereabouts would seem overkill."

2)  Michael Geist is reporting on his blog that the Canadian government today introduced new legislation that would require ISPs to establish new surveillance controls to monitor Internet activity. The bill will also require ISPs to disclose subscriber information without a warrant. The bill may not survive given the state of the government, but this is a sad indicator of things to come.

<<end quote>>

monitor the movement of every vehicle in the UK? just to catch 0.01% of the population who are "criminals"? am i the only person who finds that beyond the pale?

disclose information without a warrant? why? to whom?

are we all now guilty until we're proven guilty?  it really does my head in when i start to connect the dots...

r

On 11/16/05, Leigh Blackall <leighb...@gmail.com> wrote:

botts

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Nov 16, 2005, 7:55:40 PM11/16/05
to Teach and Learn Online
an interesting thread...we are seeing similar things here in the west,
but not to the same degree as you guys. our filtering is still
controlled mainly at a college level for student access machines, and
by the department for staff networks. as yet i've not been blocked
from any blogs, wikis or the like, but the odd site i have been blocked
from, my local tech guys seem to have some control / say over
unblocking. interestingly, the warning page that comes up if you do
stray from the straight and narrow is quite accusatory, suggesting that
the reader is responsible for all manner of evil including accessing
porn, innappropriate political sites and sites that violate the anti
harrassment laws. in fact i was trying to access some completely
innocuous information service like imdb....

i'm also interested in this last lot of comments about child protection
and teacher responsibility. as a cleared teacher and also a strong
advocate for child protection (i worked in related industries for many
years) i actually disagree entirely with censorship. my belief is that
as soon as we censor, we give people an excuse to try and find out
why...the hidden evil is way more exciting than one that stares us in
the face. censorship also removes our responsibilities as educators to
be working with our students on the appropriate use of informational
technologies. surely there is a much more powerful lesson in finding
out why we shouldn't look at something / perform some action, than if
we just say - you can't cos we've blocked it, cos we know better.

to me prevention through education is way more powerful and important
than prevention through blocking access.

botts

Kylie Rowsell

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Nov 16, 2005, 8:00:13 PM11/16/05
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Bott said"""""

i'm also interested in this last lot of comments about child protection
and teacher responsibility. as a cleared teacher and also a strong
advocate for child protection (i worked in related industries for many
years) i actually disagree entirely with censorship. my belief is that
as soon as we censor, we give people an excuse to try and find out
why...the hidden evil is way more exciting than one that stares us in
the face. censorship also removes our responsibilities as educators to
be working with our students on the appropriate use of informational
technologies. surely there is a much more powerful lesson in finding
out why we shouldn't look at something / perform some action, than if we
just say - you can't cos we've blocked it, cos we know better.

to me prevention through education is way more powerful and important
than prevention through blocking access.

"""""""


Perhaps it is this kind of 'party line' that the
protestations/submisisons to ITD could take?
Though that would mean changing a pardigm, then the tech would follow?
Ms Kylie

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