Re: [Maildev] Re: TB Sync discussion
Tanstaafl
else to use it...
As to your comments...
On Tue Mar 16 2021 16:22:37 GMT-0400 (Eastern Standard Time), Magnus
Melin <mkmelin...@iki.fi> wrote:
> Using what's most suitable is a per-requisite for success.
Of course, but this also depends on what you mean by suitable. You do
realize that can often be a very subjective term, right? I mean...
Suitable in what way? To whom? Why?
> The Firefox Sync code is open source, and can even be run independently,
> not that it probably would make any sense.
What makes sense to you, or to me, depends, on what your, or my, goal is.
My goal is for Thunderbird to gain more and more independence from the
Mozilla code base over time, at every opportunity and in every way
possible. This is such an opportunity.
> You're free to run a sync server and store your stuff there.
Really? That kind of response is similar to the one someone gets when
they complain about the free speech violations happening on all of the
social media - 'just go build your own'...
I looked into setting up my own sync server a long time ago. It was far,
far from trivial to the point it was utterly worthless as a suggestion,
and certainly not something that is even remotely reasonable to suggest
that each and every person that doesn't want their personal data on some
corporations server should have to spend hours, days or weeks setting up
their own syn server, if they even have the technical capability and
resources to do so. So, that is not a reasonable answer, and you know
it, but it's an easy one, so you use it.
Just stop.
> Our resources are not at all abundant.
They are obviously a whole lot more abundant than they were 5 years ago.
> To recreate sync properly you'd have to put *all* the resources onto
> only that. Seems rather pointless if you ask me.
What is pointless is making large false assumptions and grandiose
statements like that as if they were true, just to try to support your
own personal opinion. Your statement contains a false assumption that it
would require a recreation 'from scratch', and a false claim that this
would require the utilization of all of Thunderbirds now more
considerable resources. There are multiple existing open-source
implementations - like, as you even acknowledge, the one firefox uses -
that TB could make use of as a starting point. And *the point* is to
provide Users the ability to have *full control of their personal data*
- which I submit is about as far from 'pointless' as you can get.
So, with some unknown but not insurmountable effort, Thunderbird could
start with that code, fork it and build their own sync server, while
making changes/additions that would allow anyone to use other back-ends
they fully control - make it a plug-in architecture, with base support
for maybe SFTP and WebDAV to start.
And this is why I suggested that we use a JMAP implementation as a
starting point, because it kills multiple birds with one stone.
> JMAP is a completely different discussion. All mails, calendars and
> address books can already be stored on the servers with the solutions we
> have. This discussion was about sync of account prefs and such.
This comment makes it clear you don't know much if anything about what
JMAP is or its potential.
JMAP is an extraordinary leap into the future when it comes to all of
the above, making it extremely easy to add additional protocols to make
it easy to store other things - like, as I said, SETTINGS/Prefs and what
not (think LEMONADE that never went anywhere, is now easily doable by
extending JMAP). You simply cannot do this with IMAP. JMAP is the future.
Think of Thunderbird working this way... this of course assumes TB has
the Sync capability and additional functionality necessary to do the
work described:
1. You are an existing TB user who has 15+ email accounts (some POP and
some IMAP) and years of emails stored, as well as hundreds or thousands
of Contacts (some sync'd online, some stored in local address books),
and 12 calendars (again, some online, and some local).
2. Your computer crashes, and your hard drive is toast. You get a new one.
3. You install TB, and the first option you are presented with is to
connect to your own, private Sync server you host on your own, private
SFTP (or WebDAV or other supported) Sync target.
I used to use a Bookmarks Sync Addon in Firefox that worked amazingly
well. I had it set up to use my own private SFTP server, and all it
needed was some place to store the sync file - it was a single JSON
file. Maybe that would be the way to go, or maybe you'd use SQLlite, or
something else, whatever makes sense.
The point is, in this modern age, there is no need for a Sync SERVER
component, all that is needed is a robust file format, support for
remote storage of the synced data, and some (admittedly potentially
relatively complex) sync-state-session code to handle
multiple/concurrent sync processes from multiple sources. I'm not saying
it would be trivial, but it is doable.
4. Your TB Syncs itself. All accounts are automatically created, stored
passwords (if you have that options enabled) and all account settings
are fully restored, and your shiny new TB instance you just installed
minutes ago connects to your 15+ IMAP (or preferably JMAP) accounts, and
starts syncing things, newest first, according to your carefully crafted
and just restored/resynced settings.
5. Emails (local/POP and online/IMAP/JMAP), Contacts (local and online),
Calendars (local and online) are all fully synced (in minutes or hours,
depending on how much data is involved and your ISP connection/speed),
and you're back to work.
Of course, this would require considerable work, but most importantly,
it requires something else...
VISION.
Thunderbird would be the only email client with this capability. The
value of this selling point I think can not be over stated. It would be
massive.
And again, TB could leverage this as a revenue generator through some
kind of collaboration with Fastmail.
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