About :skinning the title bar - Re: Fwd: Mozilla Add-ons: Walnut for Thunderbird 2.0.8 Fully Reviewed

[Axel]

Hi Alfred,

if it is okay with you I am cc-ing the Thunderbird planning list, as this is an interesting edge case in innovation, which might give me some idea on how to get THunderbird (and Firefox) to behave more in line with other applications in Windows XP. As you know I am normally not using the Luna style of Windows XP but instead I am using Stardock's Windowblinds engine, which paints over all widgets and title bars / window frames, to add such niceties as

• complete user defined styles (Mac OS under windows or linux styles are no problem)
• per pixel coloring
• transparency
• shadows
• the largest collection of user style for any operating system

What I would like to point out to the tb-planning list is that the latest changes in Thunderbird 17 (and the following versions) which are also in line with the changes around Australis for Firefox (moving up the menu to overlap into the caption bar) present some problems for Software that takes over skinning the windows (especially the title bar).

Your solution of underpinning the menu with a bright area works lovely for all stock color flavors of XP Luna (blue, silver and olive) so you have solved that one problem, with your latest update of :

Could you try if this works?
If it works ok, I can then also update the Little/MicroBird themes in the same way.

Yes, this is perfect on Windows XP (TB17):



It also still looks spiffing gorgeous on my Windowblinds with Thunderbird 16 (remember that Windowblinds painst over the title-bar):



Of course, with Thunderbird 17, I will eventually have the following problem on my production windows system:

Stock theme:


Nautipolis 2.0.8:

Here, with Menu bar visible, the menu is completely obscured by the title bar ( I know this can be viewed as a bug by Windowblinds, but on the other hand it makes my Windows experience so much more cohesive)



Interestingly, when I task switch away and then back to THunderbird I am getting this effect (which is quite a good compromise as it leaves the skinning of the caption bar background intact, but replaces the windows max / minimize / restore widgets):



... which is probably closer to the effect that you would have on Windows XP with Luna (Vanilla). The bige question is, is there anything that we can do (maybe with a CSS rule?) to "force the caption bar widgets into the foreground"? Or failing this, is there something I can do  (maybe by adding a box overlay) to push the menu down to its original position again so that Thunderbird behaves more in line with all my other XP applications? This would be an interesting question...

Ideally I would like to come up with an additional extension that could

• hide the minimize / maximize / close widgets for Firefox / Thunderbird, so the user can choose to keep the ones painted by the OS / skinning engine
• either  - move down the menu so it is in its original position
  or - force the menu items "into the foreground" (which is probably the more difficult solution as some of the Z-Order from skinning engines might be out of our control)
  

One thing I would like the Thunderbird crew to  think about is that "painting into the titlebar" is not necessarily something we should take for granted, at least in the standard paradigm, any painting should be done in the client area. So IMHO skinning the whole application should ideally be configurable / optional from within the xul applications, ideally with a global about:config switch.

thanks
  Axel

Axel wrote:

HI Alfred,

Thanks for the quick reviews!

Could you send me a screenshot of the problem?
I am not able to reproduce it in Windows 7 using the Windows Classic theme (which should have the same effect).

<schnipp>

--

Axel Grude [T]
Software Developer
Thunderbird Add-ons Developer (QuickFolders, quickFilters, QuickPasswords, Zombie Keys, SmartTemplate4)
AMO Editor

[Axel]

One way to 'solve' this is to not do the titlebar/menubar overlap in non-standard window themes (such as windowblonds).

I like the new term you coined; Windows for blondes :)

Do you this is something I could implementing through an extension (or userChrome.css rules)? That would be a sufficient workaround for Windowblinds users.

There is a css media-query thing that makes this possible.

After skimming over the mdn article, do you mean this one:

-moz-windows-theme

indicates which Windows theme is currently being used. Only available on Windows. Possible values are:

• aero
• luna-blue
• luna-olive
• luna-silver
• royale
• generic
• zune

and

-moz-windows-default-theme

so basically it could be dependent on -moz-windows-default-theme being 0? I would be interested to write some test code for this at the weekend and if you like to help me, send you a test version to see how it behaves in Windows 7

thanks
  Axel

Axel wrote:

Hi Alfred,

if it is okay with you I am cc-ing the Thunderbird planning list, as this is an interesting edge case in innovation, which might give me some idea on how to get THunderbird (and Firefox) to behave more in line with other applications in Windows XP. As you know I am normally not using the Luna style of Windows XP but instead I am using Stardock's Windowblinds engine, which paints over all widgets and title bars / window frames, to add such niceties as

• complete user defined styles (Mac OS under windows or linux styles are no problem)
• per pixel coloring
• transparency
• shadows
• the largest collection of user style for any operating system

What I would like to point out to the tb-planning list is that the latest changes in Thunderbird 17 (and the following versions) which are also in line with the changes around Australis for Firefox (moving up the menu to overlap into the caption bar) present some problems for Software that takes over skinning the windows (especially the title bar).

Your solution of underpinning the menu with a bright area works lovely for all stock color flavors of XP Luna (blue, silver and olive) so you have solved that one problem, with your latest update of :

Could you try if this works?
If it works ok, I can then also update the Little/MicroBird themes in the same way.

Yes, this is perfect on Windows XP (TB17):

It also still looks spiffing gorgeous on my Windowblinds with Thunderbird 16 (remember that Windowblinds painst over the title-bar):

Of course, with Thunderbird 17, I will eventually have the following problem on my production windows system:

Stock theme:

Nautipolis 2.0.8:

Here, with Menu bar visible, the menu is completely obscured by the title bar ( I know this can be viewed as a bug by Windowblinds, but on the other hand it makes my Windows experience so much more cohesive)

Interestingly, when I task switch away and then back to THunderbird I am getting this effect (which is quite a good compromise as it leaves the skinning of the caption bar background intact, but replaces the windows max / minimize / restore widgets):

... which is probably closer to the effect that you would have on Windows XP with Luna (Vanilla). The bige question is, is there anything that we can do (maybe with a CSS rule?) to "force the caption bar widgets into the foreground"? Or failing this, is there something I can do  (maybe by adding a box overlay) to push the menu down to its original position again so that Thunderbird behaves more in line with all my other XP applications? This would be an interesting question...

Ideally I would like to come up with an additional extension that could

• hide the minimize / maximize / close widgets for Firefox / Thunderbird, so the user can choose to keep the ones painted by the OS / skinning engine
• either  - move down the menu so it is in its original position
  or - force the menu items "into the foreground" (which is probably the more difficult solution as some of the Z-Order from skinning engines might be out of our control)
  

One thing I would like the Thunderbird crew to  think about is that "painting into the titlebar" is not necessarily something we should take for granted, at least in the standard paradigm, any painting should be done in the client area. So IMHO skinning the whole application should ideally be configurable / optional from within the xul applications, ideally with a global about:config switch.

thanks
  Axel

Axel wrote:

HI Alfred,

Thanks for the quick reviews!

Could you send me a screenshot of the problem?
I am not able to reproduce it in Windows 7 using the Windows Classic theme (which should have the same effect).

<schnipp>

--

Axel Grude [T]
Software Developer
Thunderbird Add-ons Developer (QuickFolders, quickFilters, QuickPasswords, Zombie Keys, SmartTemplate4)
AMO Editor

-- 
Greetings, Groetjes, Salutations,
Alfred Kayser, alfred...@gmail.com

Hello Alfred,

[Alfred Kayser]

One way to 'solve' this is to not do the titlebar/menubar overlap in non-standard window themes (such as windowblonds).

There is a css media-query thing that makes this possible.

Axel wrote:

[Mike Conley]

Axel / Alfred,

Hey - I just wanted to know if you've tried toggling the
"mail.tabs.drawInTitlebar" pref.

This is a preference we put in that overrides the drawing-in-titlebar
behaviour.

Does this help your situation?

-Mike

On 26/09/2012 12:56 PM, Axel wrote:
>
> Hi Alfred,
>

> if it is okay with you _/I am cc-ing the Thunderbird planning list/_, as

> this is an interesting edge case in innovation, which might give me some
> idea on how to get THunderbird (and Firefox) to behave more in line with
> other applications in Windows XP. As you know I am normally not using
> the Luna style of Windows XP but instead I am using Stardock's
> Windowblinds engine, which paints over all widgets and title bars /
> window frames, to add such niceties as
>

> * complete user defined styles (Mac OS under windows or linux styles
> are no problem)
> * per pixel coloring
> * transparency
> * shadows
> * the largest collection of user style for any operating system

>
> What I would like to point out to the tb-planning list is that the
> latest changes in Thunderbird 17 (and the following versions) which are
> also in line with the changes around Australis for Firefox (moving up
> the menu to overlap into the caption bar) present some problems for
> Software that takes over skinning the windows (especially the title bar).
>
> Your solution of underpinning the menu with a bright area works lovely
> for all stock color flavors of XP Luna (blue, silver and olive) so you
> have solved that one problem, with your latest update of :
>
>> Could you try if this works?
>> If it works ok, I can then also update the Little/MicroBird themes in
>> the same way.
> Yes, this is perfect on Windows XP (TB17):
>
>
>

> It also still looks /spiffing gorgeous /on my Windowblinds with
> Thunderbird /*16 */(remember that Windowblinds painst over the title-bar):
>
>
>
> Of course, with */Thunderbird 17/*, I will eventually have the following

> problem on my production windows system:
>
> Stock theme:
>
>

> Nautipolis 2.0.8:
>
> Here, with Menu bar visible, the menu is completely obscured by the
> title bar ( I know this can be viewed as a bug by Windowblinds, but on
> the other hand it makes my Windows experience so much more cohesive)
>
>
>

> Interestingly, when I task switch away and then back to THunderbird I am
> getting this effect (which is quite a good compromise as it leaves the
> skinning of the caption bar background intact, but replaces the windows
> max / minimize / restore widgets):
>
>
>

> ... which is probably closer to the effect that you would have on
> Windows XP with Luna (Vanilla). The bige question is, is there anything
> that we can do (maybe with a CSS rule?) to "force the caption bar
> widgets into the foreground"? Or failing this, is there something I can
> do (maybe by adding a box overlay) to push the menu down to its
> original position again so that Thunderbird behaves more in line with
> all my other XP applications? This would be an interesting question...
>
> Ideally I would like to come up with an additional extension that could
>

> * hide the minimize / maximize / close widgets for Firefox /

> Thunderbird, so the user can choose to keep the ones painted by the
> OS / skinning engine

> * either - move down the menu so it is in its original position

> or - force the menu items "into the foreground" (which is probably
> the more difficult solution as some of the Z-Order from skinning
> engines might be out of our control)
>
> One thing I would like the Thunderbird crew to think about is that
> "painting into the titlebar" is not necessarily something we should take
> for granted, at least in the standard paradigm, any painting should be
> done in the client area. So IMHO skinning the whole application should
> ideally be configurable / optional from within the xul applications,
> ideally with a global about:config switch.
>
> thanks
> Axel
>
>>
>> Axel wrote:
>>> HI Alfred,
>>>> Thanks for the quick reviews!
>>>>
>>>> Could you send me a screenshot of the problem?
>>>> I am not able to reproduce it in Windows 7 using the Windows Classic
>>>> theme (which should have the same effect).
> <schnipp>
>
> --

> *Axel Grude* [T]

> Software Developer
> Thunderbird Add-ons Developer (QuickFolders, quickFilters,
> QuickPasswords, Zombie Keys, SmartTemplate4)
> AMO Editor
>
>

> _______________________________________________
> tb-planning mailing list
> tb-pl...@mozilla.org
> https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning
>
_______________________________________________
tb-planning mailing list
tb-pl...@mozilla.org
https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning

[Richard Marti]

On 27.09.2012 10:41, Axel wrote:

One way to 'solve' this is to not do the titlebar/menubar overlap in non-standard window themes (such as windowblonds).

I like the new term you coined; Windows for blondes :)

Do you this is something I could implementing through an extension (or userChrome.css rules)? That would be a sufficient workaround for Windowblinds users.

There is a css media-query thing that makes this possible.

After skimming over the mdn article, do you mean this one:

-moz-windows-theme

indicates which Windows theme is currently being used. Only available on Windows. Possible values are:

• aero
• luna-blue
• luna-olive
• luna-silver
• royale
• generic
• zune

and

-moz-windows-default-theme

so basically it could be dependent on -moz-windows-default-theme being 0? I would be interested to write some test code for this at the weekend and if you like to help me, send you a test version to see how it behaves in Windows 7

With http://mozilla.paenglab.ch/test/detectdesktoptheme.zip you can try what media query would match for Windowblinds (or -blonds?). Unzip it and open it in your browser. It would be great if you can attach a screenshot of the result.

Does the same happen with default theme when you switch away and then back to TB like with Alfred's theme?

Richard

[Axel]

Axel / Alfred,

Hey - I just wanted to know if you've tried toggling the "mail.tabs.drawInTitlebar" pref.

This is a preference we put in that overrides the drawing-in-titlebar behaviour.

Hi Mike / Alfred / Richard

I just tested it, and the result is as always "almost" perfect:

Using the Windowblinds theme "Ares" with Alfred Kayser's "nautipolis" theme:



As you can see, the windows caption bar is back to its former (XP engine styled) glory. it is interesting to note that Windows XP was originally planned to support more styles and that the DLL that provides Luna was "hacked" by Stardock to re-enable capabilities that were already inherent theming features.

IN the screenshot above, the (now superfluous) min / restore / maximize / close widgets are painted over the tab managements ones. It is an interesting edge case, is there another hidden setting that hides them?

It looks to me like this might make a nice "disable title bar skinning" checkbox somewhere in advanced options. But putting the toggle for this into a extension would be a perfectly valid solution as well.

Some more examples - please also note that the Thunderbird Icon in the title bar is back (for a windows XP user, this represents the system menu) which is a good thing :

Windowblinds skin "ares" and Tb default skin:



Windowblinds skin "gaiety" + Tb default theme



Windowblinds skin "Noire" + default theme


WB skin "Rogue Proton"



this last screenshots hopefully demonstrates that it is not always easy and safe to bank on certain system colors or dimensions, by simply assuming they are correct for the current operating system. :-)

regards & thanks
  Axel

Indeed, that solves the problem of the menubar in the titlebar for windows themes like Window Blinds...

Hello Alfred,

--

Axel Grude [T]

[Alfred Kayser]

Indeed, that solves the problem of the menubar in the titlebar for
windows themes like Window Blinds...

Mike Conley wrote:

[Richard Marti]

On 27.09.2012 22:04, Axel wrote:

Axel / Alfred,

Hey - I just wanted to know if you've tried toggling the "mail.tabs.drawInTitlebar" pref.

This is a preference we put in that overrides the drawing-in-titlebar behaviour.

Hi Mike / Alfred / Richard

I just tested it, and the result is as always "almost" perfect:

Using the Windowblinds theme "Ares" with Alfred Kayser's "nautipolis" theme:



As you can see, the windows caption bar is back to its former (XP engine styled) glory. it is interesting to note that Windows XP was originally planned to support more styles and that the DLL that provides Luna was "hacked" by Stardock to re-enable capabilities that were already inherent theming features.

IN the screenshot above, the (now superfluous) min / restore / maximize / close widgets are painted over the tab managements ones. It is an interesting edge case, is there another hidden setting that hides them?

It looks to me like this might make a nice "disable title bar skinning" checkbox somewhere in advanced options. But putting the toggle for this into a extension would be a perfectly valid solution as well.

This can be easily done with the selectors #messengerWindow[tabsintitlebar] ... or #messengerWindow:not([tabsintitlebar]) ... in the theme without a need of a extension like it's done in the default theme.

Richard