Dorgon and Joby's Reward details

[Doctor Igor]

Just some details Joby will explain them more in character. but I
thought it might help you to have a few note on how the requirements
would work... and I made a few judgments that are slightly different
than some that were made tuesday.

If the Class feature description defines a requirement explicitly (or
implicitly) then that will be a requirement you will have to meet to
get the feature (Claws, another feat, another ability, etc).

Most class features do not have requirements individually but the
classes that get them do. Here is a list of Class requirements that
will restrict you and a list of Class requirements that can be
ignored:

Restricting requirements:
Alignment
Size
Unique physical feature (Wings, Tail, multiple Arms, etc)

Non-Restricting requirements:
Race
Feats
Skills
Spellcasting ability (though some features will be useless without
spells... Like "Spell Secret")
Unique events (having met a certain creature, living in a certain
area, having been killed or damaged in a certain way)

Given that this still may leave some things open for interpretation...
if you have soemthing in question, email me or put it here or in your
journal.

[Dargon]

So, I'm lame and have nothing better to do. I've looked through all
the Prestige Classes in all the available books, coming up with my own
list of stuff I might want to take, and so I might as well share some
things that would be generally useful for anyone to take:

The Warshaper is the big one, so let's start there:
Morphic Immunities - Become immune to stunning and critical hits
Morphic Reach - Gain 5 feet of reach
Morphic Body - Gain +4 to CON and STR
Morphic Healing - Gain Fast Healing 2

Other useful stuff:
Capricious Step from the Elocator in the Expanded Psionic Handbook -
Take two 5-foot free moves per round instead of one

True Seeing from the Master Inquisitive in the main Eberron book -
Gives you True Sight as a 1/day spell-like ability

Ability Boon from the Chameleon in Races of Destiny - Depending on how
Rich works things that improve with class levels, gives you a +2, +4,
or +6 insight bonus to a stat of your choice

And, the one that I personally think we should all take:
Acquire Ship from the Windwright Captain class in the Eberron
Explorer's Handbook. We could each get our own airship and Half-Elf
crew, and race them!

If anybody has any ideas as to the kind of thing that they might want
to learn, and don't consider it a super-secret, I'd be happy to see
what I could track down for them. I've already found Tyne's "WIS
bonus to AC without an alignment restriction" thing!

[Ogre De Latoya]

I'll bite. What's the biggest bonus I could get to charisma?
Alternatively, any way to get more than 4 turn attempts that extra
turning would give? I'm guess you can guess why.

[Dargon]

> I'll bite. What's the biggest bonus I could get to charisma?

That one's easy enough, since I've been looking for the biggest bonus
that I could get to Charisma. That'll be the Chameleon's Ability Boon
that I mentioned before.

> Alternatively, any way to get more than 4 turn attempts that extra
> turning would give? I'm guess you can guess why.

Looks like that would be "Extra Greater Turning" from the Radiant
Servant of Pelor in the Complete Divine. That lets you perform 3 +
CHA mod Greater Turnings per day. Greater Turning is "like a normal
turning, except that the undead creatures that would be turned are
instead destroyed," so one would assume that it, like a normal
turning, could be used for that reason that I guessed why.

[Doctor Igor]

> The Warshaper is the big one, so let's start there:
> Morphic Immunities - Become immune to stunning and critical hits
> Morphic Reach - Gain 5 feet of reach
> Morphic Body - Gain +4 to CON and STR
> Morphic Healing - Gain Fast Healing 2

These are all legal... just remember that these are all only in effect
while wild-shaped.

> Other useful stuff:
> Capricious Step from the Elocator in the Expanded Psionic Handbook -
> Take two 5-foot free moves per round instead of one

I'm not familiar with this, but I would only say "No" if it was a
Psionic feat, because by definition they require a PSP pool to have.

> True Seeing from the Master Inquisitive in the main Eberron book -
> Gives you True Sight as a 1/day spell-like ability

Just check for alignment restrictions, otherwise it should be okay.

> Ability Boon from the Chameleon in Races of Destiny - Depending on how
> Rich works things that improve with class levels, gives you a +2, +4,
> or +6 insight bonus to a stat of your choice

That's a question that has a different answer for just about each way
that class level can take effect... and not many of them have an "in-
Game" means of determining... so it's a gamble. On the bright side,
no matter the bonus, it would stack with just about every other stat
bonus available.

[Doctor Igor]

I would allow a use of Greater turning to interchange with a use of
turning for the divine Metamagic feat. You'd just have to keep track
of your greater turnings separately, in case you ever used them to,
say, "Turn" "Undead".

[Tirris d'Cannith]

> Non-Restricting requirements:
> Race
> Feats
> Skills
> Spellcasting ability (though some features will be useless without
> spells... Like "Spell Secret")
> Unique events (having met a certain creature, living in a certain
> area, having been killed or damaged in a certain way)

This does, in fact, mean that I can finally become a construct as per
Green Star Adept!! STARMETAL!!!!!!!!!

KURT!!: !!!!!!!!!!!

I got your e-mail, which could come in interesting (RE: A WAY TO GET
SAVES AS PALADIN [WHY AM I NOT RESPONDING IN E-MAIL {I WILL GET TO
THAT BUT HAVE TO ABRUPTLY GO TO BED}]). One other thing I was trying
to find, before I saw this and discovered I could look at things
otherwise restricted by race or "unique events" or whatevz, was a way
to just suddenly be a better caster. Not as in "gain ten spell
levels," though that would be great, but like "all your DCs go up by 5
for some reason" or "gain double normal spells of the next-to-highest
level you can cast" or anything along those lines that would nicely
complement being a middling-at-best caster. Pretty much I just want
to gain Ur-Priest spell progression, can you do that? Thanks. Haha,
I just realized that the Ur-Priest requirement would be waived!
Wooo! Ur-Priest!

Barring that, there must be some Bard prestige class somewhere that
could take my one level of Bard and still instantly make me useful. I
saw something somewhere that did something like double the effective
DC of countersongs, but that might have been a relic instrument for
that matter.

Also, I swear there was some prestige class that gave you +4 CON and
+4 CHA at an "apotheosis" stage (and I am not just thinking of the 3.0
Dragon Disciple, though I feel like it was similar).

Needless to say, I will just take Acquire Ship from the Windwright
Captain.

Oh oh dude, what was that fucking crazy Eberron Explorer Book mage
that knew the secrets of the eternal abyss and could make people's
worlds explode? I want that.

[Dargon]

>One other thing I was trying
> to find, before I saw this and discovered I could look at things
> otherwise restricted by race or "unique events" or whatevz, was a way
> to just suddenly be a better caster. Not as in "gain ten spell
> levels," though that would be great, but like "all your DCs go up by 5
> for some reason" or "gain double normal spells of the next-to-highest
> level you can cast" or anything along those lines that would nicely
> complement being a middling-at-best caster.

Well, the first one that comes to mind is the delightful "Cleric Spell
Access" from the Complete Divine's Rainbow Servant, which lets you add
all Cleric spells to the list of stuff that you can cast. Of course,
that just opens up more variety, rather than making you any better at
it. I'll take a look, and undoubtedly follow up with another post
before anybody else posts anything, since I don't need to go to work
until Wednesday. Also, stop typing that.

>
> Barring that, there must be some Bard prestige class somewhere that
> could take my one level of Bard and still instantly make me useful. I
> saw something somewhere that did something like double the effective
> DC of countersongs, but that might have been a relic instrument for
> that matter.

Well, since most Bard prestige classes just have 'Name of Music
Power,' which then has various things that you can do when you get a
certain level of Perform, pretty much any of those could help you out
in that department.

> Also, I swear there was some prestige class that gave you +4 CON and
> +4 CHA at an "apotheosis" stage (and I am not just thinking of the 3.0
> Dragon Disciple, though I feel like it was similar).

That's possible. In my big sweep, I pretty much ignored any prestige
class that changes the way that you look, since there's no way Dargon
would go for anything like that. But most of the things that I've
seen with a final transformation just cause you to change type and
gain some damage reduction. I could become a fey and gain 5/cold
iron, you guys!

> Oh oh dude, what was that fucking crazy Eberron Explorer Book mage
> that knew the secrets of the eternal abyss and could make people's
> worlds explode? I want that.

Oh, yeah, that one is fun. If the DC wasn't INT based, I'd totally
take it. It's worth typing out in entirety. Here you go:

Cataclysm of Flesh (Sp): At 3rd level, you complete your study of the
daelkyr-Dhakaani conflict, gaining the ability to tear a hole in the
fabric of the planes and let the madness of Xoriat corrupt all it
touches.
This ability has a range of 25 feet plus 5 feet per caster level, and
a duration of 1 round per class level. All creatures within a 20-foot
radius of the affect's center must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 14 +
your INT modifier) or be touched by the lemon rains and mindless star-
worms of the Realm of Madness, forced to endure as their own flesh
melts away and rains upward to patter on the ceiling as they
deliquesce.
An affected creature cannot hold or use any item (including clothing,
armor, magic items, and so on). It can ooze forward with gelatinous
pseudopods at a speed of 10 feet. If it normally has movement modes
other than land speed, those modes are reduced by 30 feet (with a
speed of 0 or less meaning that the creature has lost that movement
mode until it regains its natural form).
Pain also wracks the stressed nerves of the victim. To cast a spell
or use a spell-like ability while in this oozelike form, a creature
must succeed on a Concentration check (DC 25 + spell level) or have
the spell or spell-like ability wasted. (In addition, because of its
inability to hold objects, an affected creature cannot cast spells
that require material components.) The amorphous wretch can still
attack with natural weapons, but it does so at a -4 penalty on attack
rolls and a 50% miss chance because its eyes have transmuted into
spongy yolks. The victim regains its normal form when the effect ends.

[Dargon]

Let's see... Ways to make a middling spellcaster better...

Fatespinner (Complete Arcane) gives you two options, one of which
might not work with this, and one of which wouldn't work when you
would want it to. 'Spin Fate' grants you points of 'spin' per day
equal to your Fatespinner level, which you then can spend to raise the
DC of a spell you cast on a 1-for-1 basis, but it's tough to say how
much spin you'd be able to gain as a non-Fatespinner. 'Seal Fate'
lets you, as a free action once per day, give someone either a +10 or
a -10 to their next saving throw, but it doesn't work on things with
more hit dice than you, so you couldn't give that -10 to anybody that
you'd actually want to give a -10 to.

It's entirely possible that 'Improved Caster Level' from the Green
Star Adept (Arcane) would let you stack some or all of your various
classes to determine your effective caster level. As written, you get
to add your Green Star Adept level to a casting class of your choice,
so who knows how it would work in this scenerio.

The Sublime Chord (still Arcane) has, as one of the sub-powers in it's
Bardic Music ability, 'Song of Arcane Power,' which lets you raise the
caster level of the next spell you use, based on how well you make
your Perform roll: 10-19 = +1, 20-29 = +2, 30+ = +4.

And, of course, there's the Wild Mage (rounding out the Complete
Arcane), which reduces your caster level by 3, and then has you add
1d6 to your caster level every time you cast. Random, Drew! Random!

Moving on to the Complete Divine, the Geomancer's 'Spell Versatility'
lets you shuffle around requirements and stats from your multitude of
spellcasting classes, so you could cast Bard spells with your INT mod,
or Wizard spells with no arcane spell failure in your Bard armor, or
whatever.

Really, it seems that 'suddenly get a lot better at spellcasting' is
much tougher to find in a prestige class than 'suddenly get a lot
better at anything that isn't spellcasting,' which is probably a good
thing. If you were looking for, say, a way to become immune to
magical healing, I could totally hook you up.

[Dargon]

> Also, I swear there was some prestige class that gave you +4 CON and
> +4 CHA at an "apotheosis" stage (and I am not just thinking of the 3.0
> Dragon Disciple, though I feel like it was similar).

Oh, right, that is the Dragon Disciple. 10th level 'Dragon
Apotheosis' turns you into a half-dragon, which nets you +4 STR, +2
CHA, +4 natural armor, low-light vision, 60-foot darkvision, immunity
to sleep and paralysis, and would normally net you immunity to the
type of energy you'd chosen for your breath weapon earlier in the
class, but that wouldn't work the way we're getting these. Looks like
you could also take 'Ability Boost' from the class, and, depending on
how level-based things would work, gain +2 STR, then +2 STR, then +2
CON, then +2 INT.

[Dargon]

Woo! Four in a row! =(

At long last, I found a way for Kanatash to get Improved Grab without
first getting claws. It's one of the Stage 4 drift options for the
Geomancer, page 44 of the Complete Divine. Just keep in mind that
Improved Grab apparently only works on foes at least one size category
smaller than yourself.

[Tirris d'Cannith]

Also, I would seriously consider taking the "holy fucking insane"
lemon rain and mindless star-worms ability if I had any idea how the
"one round per class level" thing would work with no class levels. My
INT mod should be high enough by the time we are done here to get a
reflex save DC in the mid-20s, ensuring one monster in a thousand
might fail the save!!!

[Tirris d'Cannith]

I like how I said "also" there, adding to my previous message, but my
previous message still has not shown up. Though my last message did.
I wonder if this one will? Oh, what a wonderful game Google Groups
plays with our minds!

All I said, in case it never shows up, was that I was excited to see
that the Dragon Discipline did indeed have something awesome and CHA-
related as I recalled. And that I was not sure if you could take a
level 4 Geomancer thing, since I thought that would count as building
on something else, but I also suppose it does not directly relate to
the earlier things.

[Doctor Igor]

In most cases later class benefits do not rely directly on earlier
ones, they just want to make you work for them.
There are some exceptions thought where they list the earlier feature
in the description of the later feature (kurt is bandying one of those
right now).
One other exception that has come up is that I wouldn't allow Improved
evasion for someone who didn't have evasion, but I would allow evasion
for someone who didn't have evasion.