Testing: This is a test.

[Richard Littauer]

I think that species don't really exist. 


Thoughts?

R

[Shinichi Nakahara]

I totally agree! Well, they exist in our minds☺️

Shinichi

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[Tony Rees]

I think they do... you/we belong to one... I imagine its limits are set out somewhere (a species is what a competent taxonomist says it is...)

[Richard Pyle]

How about a little warning next time?  I just now joined the group, and this is the first thread I read, and now I have Coke-zero in my nose and all over my keyboard....

I have to quibble with Tony, though... I'm not sure there are any "competent" taxonomists (Darwin was evidently optimistic), so my working definition is that "a species is what a community of taxonomists says it is...."

In any case, VERY happy to see this group created  (resurrected? De-extincted?)!

Aloha,

Rich

[Tony Rees]

Ah well, not only is the list being resurrected, but so is one of the hoary topics discussed before on similar lists elsewhere, see e.g.

https://www.mail-archive.com/td...@lists.tdwg.org/msg00150.html - "Semantic Web: What is a species?"

(including contributions by your good self, Rich...)

I wonder if much has changed in the situation over the intervening 17 years? answers on a postcard, maybe :)

Regards to all - Tony

Tony Rees, New South Wales, Australia

https://about.me/TonyRees

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[Richard Pyle]

John Earle, a master diver, naturalist, ichthyologist and poet(!) wrote a long poem in honor of the late Jack Randall (while Jack was still alive), and it’s an absolute masterpiece for anyone who understands taxonomy.  In any case, the first lines of the poem are:

----------

Old Adam of Genesis fame

Was said to start the naming game.

He saw the beasts which God created,

Perceived a need and cogitated,

Then called one “dog”, another “cat”

And “camel”, “housefly”, “frog”, and “rat”.

---------

 

My point being… in the context of the question, “What is a species?,” I think the issue has remained essentially unchanged for much longer than 17 years… and I am doubtful that there ever will be a satisfactory resolution in my lifetime.  But that’s OK… it’s still fun to talk about (and, I suspect, always will be).

 

Aloha,

Rich

 

P.S. YIKES! Did I really write all that back in 2009?!?  I’m terrified to read it…

 

Richard L. Pyle, PhD

Interim Director of Natural Sciences

Director of EXCORE | Senior Curator of Ichthyology | Database Coordinator for Natural Sciences

Bernice Pauahi Bishop Museum

1525 Bernice Street, Honolulu, HI 96817-2704

Office: (808) 848-4115;  Fax: (808) 847-8252

eMail: deep...@bishopmuseum.org

BishopMuseum.org

Our Mission: Bishop Museum inspires our community and visitors through the exploration and celebration of the extraordinary history, culture, and environment of Hawaiʻi and the Pacific.

[Tony Rees]

Personally, I am happy to accept that (most, extant) species exist independently of their human describers, and that the job of taxonomists is then to discover and document them. Of more interest to me is where to draw the distinction between e.g. species and subspecies, and whether taxonomists yet agree which findings to accept when a new species is proposed... in other words, what evidence will be taken as concluding the matter one way or another, see e.g. the WoRMS (World Register of Marine Species) entry for Tursiops australis Charlton-Robb, Gershwin, Thompson, Austin, Owen & McKechnie, 2011 ... developments / further pronouncements awaited with interest...

One could make similar cases for e.g. dingos vs. dogs (although that one does seem fairly clear), domestic dogs vs. wolves, and more...

Regards - Tony

[David Campbell]

The Nouvelle Ecole school of taxonomy that multiplied mollusk names in the late 1800's to early 1900's claimed that their great insight was that species don't exist. I am not sure why they thought that you should therefore create names for every variation.  

--

Dr. David Campbell

Professor, Geology

Department of Natural Sciences

110 S Main St, Campus Box #7270

Gardner-Webb University

Boiling Springs NC 28017