The tragedy of Tasker object names

[JHD]

This will sound like an anti-Tasker rant, but it is in fact the opposite; a small voice hoping that in some future revision a glaring problem might be corrected, and an already great product be made even better.

I am a very occasional Tasker user - someone who doesn't use it enough to every really get over the hump and become facile with it.  I'm a programmer and an engineer, so the concepts aren't at all foreign.  But pretty much every time I relearn it, I'm struck by the fact that names for several of the main elements are at best unhelpful and at worst misleading. I think this contributes significantly to the steep learning curve, and is a barrier to the spread of Tasker.

In the spirit of not bitching about something without trying to make it better, below is a list of Tasker objects, with short definitions, why I think the names are in some cases a poor choice, and some (very preliminary) thoughts on better ones.  Feedback would be most welcome, especially if it works toward a consensus on these.

While you might think that it's too late to change, there are examples of successful "rethinks" of this magnitude; e.g. Python 2 -> Python 3.  It's not easy, but it can be done.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

What Tasker calls it:	What it is/does:	Why the name is confusing.	Ideas for better name(s)
Action	An atomic operation OR a reference to a Task.	N/A
Task	A list of Actions.	N/A
Context	A trigger for a Task.	Redefines a term that's widely understood to mean the opposite.  Dictionary.com: Context: "the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event".  Note, 'surround', not 'cause'.	Trigger
State Context	State Contexts have time duration, can trigger different Tasks at entry and exit, and restore settings at exit automatically.	"	State Trigger
Event Context	Event contexts are instantaneous and trigger one Task	"	Event Trigger
Profile	A combination of Tasks and the Context(s) that trigger them.	Redefines a term that's widely understood to mean something else:  Ask anyone who uses a computer or smartphone what a "profile" is, and they'll tell you it's a set of variables that describes a single user.	Job (in common usage, a collection of tasks) Recipe Program
Scene	A custom U.I.	In common usage "scene" is something you observe.  Perhaps more relevant, in (home) control, a "scene" is a label for a group of related settings of independently controllable elements (like lights) for a single use case.  In neither case does "scene" bring to mind a potentially interactive control interface.	"Control" (the name attached to U.I. elements in e.g. Windows.) "Control Panel", "Panel" "Widget", "Widget Group" "User Interface"
Project	A group of related Profiles etc.  A project can among other things be exported as an app.	N/A

[techguyone]

Judah Richardson, is this you ? (again)

[Nils Eliassen]

Have to agree, as a new user, finding it bewildering. Scenes????

[JHD]

I don't know who Judah Richardson is. If you're asking whether this was posted by a sockpuppet, the answer is no.

[techguyone]

Oh God! they're breeding, please don't tell us you can only use tasker if it was completely  redone in a pictorial flow chart visual pattern, and you spent 3.5 years working out how to do a 4 line task.

[Dale Smith]

I don't think these people realized the purpose of this group. They should start their own group. Maybe call it "Tasker complainers group".

[Fen Let]

I've been using Tasker for years, and this doesn't seem like an unreasonable request to me. The OP isn't asking for a visual interface or any large over haul. Simply more meaningful names. I've also been a developer, and accurate naming schemes are one of the most important things to implement, and simultaneously one of the most overlooked.

I'm not necessarily Pro or Against renaming things in Tasker, but I'm definitely Against this religious pearl clutching to old tradition. If someone has an argument to make, then go on and make it. If your goal is to dismiss and berate people, then you should stick to 4chan. Grow up.

[Dale Smith]

What would you rename and why? Give me an example. Also consider all the people who have been using that name for years and won't be able to find it after it changes.

[Rabangus]

There's some pretty good examples in the opening post! I also am a programmer, and I agree that some of the names for key parts of Tasker really are misleading, and do contribute to Tasker being a steeper learning curve than it needs to be. I know it could make established users do a double-take if some renaming was done, but for the long term adoption of the app by more users I think it would only be a good thing. Especially 'Context' - that is a particularly poor name for what it describes...

[Joel Dedrick]

My original post contains a table listing what I would rename, why the current names are potentially confusing, and in some cases suggestions for better ones. Evidently they didn't read it before flaming me.

On Jan 3, 2018 8:04 AM, "Dale Smith" <dales...@gmail.com> wrote:

What would you rename and why? Give me an example. Also consider all the people who have been using that name for years and won't be able to find it after it changes.

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[Reinhard Kuss]

I totally agree with JHD. I really like tasker, one of the most useful apps for android. As a programmer, I agree to the point how important a clear naming convention is. The developer should seriously consider a renaming of key elements....

[techguyone]

Tasker has been running for a very long time with hundreds of thousands of user installs.

up until a few weeks ago I'd never heard anyone bitch about Taskers naming or the way it does things.

This suggests to me that only a miniscule number of people using are 'programmers' and everyone else has just got on with it with no idea anything HAD to be named 'just so' because, you know. It doesn't.

Pent could call Contexts 'apple pie' if he wants as long as the people using it, know what the name refers to, the name itself is meaningless.

Maybe you should just enjoy using tasker rather than trying to put everything into a convenient little box that only something like 0.000001% of the user base actually give a toss about.

I'd much rather Pent spent his time making better features and squashing bugs, than pandering to something that virtually no one cares about.

[Dale Smith]

I suggest that no one post to this topic from now on. If the orginator has no one to respond to maybe he will get tired of listening to himself.

[Rabangus]

Why's that now? There are clearly plenty of people who agree with the OP. This is a relevant thread making good suggestions, and I hope Pent is watching (although as a lone programmer I suspect he is somewhat emotionally invested in the naming conventions applied in Tasker).

[techguyone]

Heh 5 people out of 16,844 in the group  guess my 0.00001% wasn't far off :)

ok ok I'll stop posting :) Dale is likely right.

[Andrea Bruzzesi]

In my opinion JHD' s suggestion makes sense: some names used in Tasker application are not intuitive and don't get why users should just "live with it" because "it has always been like this".
We would still be in the stone age if everyone thought like this.

[Robert Lott III]

Wow, some of you are jerks to JHD. I'm all for anything that makes Tasker simpler to learn & adopt, as it is a steep learning curve. Also, so glad Pent made this app, as it sports the true power of Android smartphones.

[Tasker Pro]

Even the name "Tasker".

It should likely be re-named "Do-er" or "Thing that Does Other Things" (which of course can be abbreviated to TTDOT).

[Joel Dedrick]

Thanks to all who responded thoughtfully and with civility.  It seems there is at least some consensus that object naming may be hurting adoption.

Does the developer read this forum, or is there some other channel for enhancement requests?

best ,

J

On Jan 10, 2018 3:02 PM, "Tasker Pro" <tasker...@gmail.com> wrote:

Even the name "Tasker".

It should likely be re-named "Do-er" or "Thing that Does Other Things" (which of course can be abbreviated to TTDOT).

[Scott Miller]

I agree that some of the naming choices can be confusing. It probably took me a few months to keep it straight in my head. But, with more than a million downloads, I really don't think the adoption rate is hurting. And changing the names at this stage would probably make things even more confusing, rather than helping.

Scott M.

[Pak]

Problem is coming up with terms everyone likes which will be impossible because someone is going have a problem with every proposed change. While I agree some terms would be clearer as to their function/significance, others are just fine the way they are. 

For example I think the term "Profile" is perfectly acceptable since you are defining a set of states, conditions, and actions that create the profile. Terms like Job, Recipe, and Program I feel are worse since they imply something has to happen with a profile becoming active. Where as a Profile can simply exist and doesn't necessarily have to cause anything to change or happen. It simply reflects the current state of the device. After all you could create a profile that does nothing other than show up in the notification bar as being active when the profile matches a bunch of states or actions occurring on the phone.

I also don't think Context is that bad considering they are the things that have to happen or to be in order for a Profile to be active. In many cases it is not a single thing but several. So any one might not be a trigger in itself but if all the conditions "surrounding" the profile making it active, then something may or may not happen as a result. Maybe "Conditions" (that make up the profile) might be marginally better of a term than "contexts".

Anyway, point being like others have mentioned, it isn't really a big deal and a few people complaining here probably doesn't represent the millions of downloads and users.

[Edward Williams]

Right it probably doesn't represent the couple million that have/do use Tasker. Maybe it represents the rest of the 2.6 billion Android users...

[David Mark]

Scene is definitely an odd one. Don't have a problem with contexts.

Flaming fanboys should vacate the thread as this is a public group and all opinions should be welcome. What does it hurt to have opposing views documented?

[David Mark]

This is the "bro, I haven't heard (m)any complaints" fallacy, often seen in open source software discussions.

You presuppose that any potential Tasker user will automatically come here and voice any and all frustrations (as opposed to just giving up on it).

And then you anonymously flame those who do, perhaps scaring off others who might have thought they could voice their opinion here without having to listen to nitwits blithering about nonsensical statistics.

[Rich D]

It seems to me that any name changing at this point will only bring more confusion. Think about all the work others have put into guides and videos. Now consider a new user trying to comprehend taskers complex structure with these guides and conflicting names. Bad, Bad idea....   

Unless of course some of you kind folks are willing to write a new comprehensive all inclusive guide to replace all the hard work others have put into there guides. 

Besides would you ask McDonald's to change the name of a big mac to ' The triple'  because it better describes the burger. After one or two visits I am pretty sure most customers know what a big Mac is.   

Just my humble opinion.. :)

[Tasker Pro]

Rich D said: "Besides would you ask McDonald's to change the name of a big mac to ' The triple' because it better describes the burger. After one or two visits I am pretty sure most customers know what a big Mac is. Just my humble opinion.. :)"

This is great! One of the best analogies I've heard in regards to "Why isn't this thing in Tasker called that thing instead? ".

It's like how IFTTT calls its variables "Ingredients" - to me that's patently absurd. But it is what it is...

[Rich D]

It's like how IFTTT calls its variables "Ingredients"  - to me that's patently absurd. But it is what it is...

And even though 'Ingredient' is so patently absurd,  were you still able to remember what it was on the next applet you built?  

[Phil C]

Good point. And the word "Context" is a pretty good word, too.
I am actually not much on board with the idea of changing anything.
It's only in the context of someone mentioning it the scene here that the action of changing words became part of my task.
I guess i wasn't triggered, but contexted. :P   

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:23 PM, Rich D <ricp...@gmail.com> wrote:

It's like how IFTTT calls its variables "Ingredients"  - to me that's patently absurd. But it is what it is...

And even though 'Ingredient' is so patently absurd,  were you still able to remember what it was on the next applet you built?