mafai fokotu'u siasi

[Jione Havea]

Ka mou ka faingamalie pea tokoni atu ki he faka'eke'eke ko eni:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <wayn...@gmail.com>
Date: 2017-07-26 15:55 GMT+12:00

malo tau lava pea malo e tau moe ngaue lahi koeku ki kole tokoni pe 'a'aku 'i he'eku lau hifo 'a e ki'i kolomu koe mafai fokotu'u siasi 'a Sisu pe 'oku tonu 'eku mahalo ka koe ki kavaeinga mahu'inga 'ena ia ki au he 'oku ou lolotonga fa'u 'eku pepa 'i Sia'atoutai 'i he kaveinga ko 'ena pea ko 'eku fie kau he talanga na'a lava ke tokoni ki hee'eku ki ngaue 'oku fai ke fakakakto 'aki 'eku ako;
- koe ngaahi fehu'i fakalanga fakakukau 1. koe mavahe mei SUTT 'o fokotu'u siasi Sutt pea nau fakanofo 'enau faifekau moe kau ma'u lakanga pea nau ngaue'aki pe 'a e naunau kotoa 'a e SUTT? 'OKU TOTONU NAI?
- Manatu ki he fakamatala fakata'u 'a e palesiteni malolo ko Sione 'Amanaki havea 'i he konifelenisi 'o e 1983 na'a pehe ai " kohotau fangatokoua moe fangatuofafine mo 'etau fanau 'oku nau mavahe 'o fokotu'u 'enau siasi. kuo fokotu'u mo 'enau ako pea koetau fanautama pe 'eni 'a e SUTT. 'Oku nau kei ngaue'aki pe 'a toto'onga lotu 'a e Uesiliana pea ko 'enau me'a kotoa 'oku fakauesiliana. Ko 'eku fehu'i atu konifelenisi kakato ; koe ha hatau me'a 'e fai ki he palopalema kuo hoko?
- koe fehu'i tefito ia 'eku pepa pe oku totonu ke tuku noa'ia pe 'a e koloa 'a e siasi ke pehe'i ko 'ene fie mavahe pe ha taha ia fokotu'u 'ene siasi pea fakanofo pe ia 'aia ke faifekau pule 'oe ki siasi koia ka 'oku 'iloa koe SUTT PE FWC ko 'ene siasi 'ikai fakaongoongo mai ki he 'ulu siasi ki tonga ni pe tuku pe ke nau ma'u moui ai?
-ko fe kupu 'i he siasi SUTT PE FWC 'oku monuka 'i he palopalema ni?
- 'oku mata he me'ani 'oku hoko ia 'i muli 'i hotau kainga tonga pe 'o 'ikai koha toe matakali kehe? fakatata pe ki he palopalema na'e toki hoko 'i siasi 'o tuingapapai 'i nz maumau na'e hoko 'i he mavahe 'a e konga moe SUTT NZ Kae nofo 'a e konga moe FWC TUINGA PAPAI?
- Kataki pe he faka'efi'efi noa 'atu 'a eku ki'i kaveinga ka ko 'eku kole tokoni pe he fale ni na'a ma'u ha koloa mahu'inga ke fakakato'aki e ki'i feinga vaivai.

koeku email 'ena ktki fakamolemole ha taha pe fie tokoni ki he'eku kole 'ata pe ke tokoni ki heku feinga ako.... wayn...@gmail.com... malo moe hufia n 'ofa atu

[hamilto...@paradise.net.nz]

Hhh... faifekau, 'ikai ke ke sii ofa atu 'o tali atu ke vave. Mahalo naa tokoni
ange ha'ane fetu'utaki kia Rev Paula Latu ke 'oange hisitolia e kamata 'a e
mavahevahe mo e fokotu'u Siasi. Ko e mavahevahe 'a e kakai Tonga 'o Aotearoa o
a'u ki he 90 kuo 'osi hiki ia e Rev Sifa Hinga pea hange kiate au 'e ala ma'u pe
tatau i Tonga na mei Rev Ikani Tolu. Ko e Oz e ala ma'u atu meia Sami Pakofe...

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[sep...@optusnet.com.au]

- koe ngaahi fehu'i fakalanga fakakukau 1. koe mavahe mei SUTT 'o fokotu'u siasi Sutt pea nau fakanofo 'enau faifekau moe kau ma'u lakanga pea nau ngaue'aki pe 'a e naunau kotoa 'a e SUTT? 'OKU TOTONU NAI?

1. Mavahe.
 a). 'Oku taau ke fakatokanga'i e mavahe mo hono 'uhinga 'i he tukunga 'oku 'iai e kakai Uesiliana 'oku nau mavahe. Ko e mavahe mei he SUTT 'o folau  ki Mull 'o fokotu'u ai e Sutt, 'oku 'uhinga pe ia 'oku 'ikai ha Sutt 'i Muli pea 'oku nau kei fie Sutt pe neongo
'enau hiki 'o ma'ma'o mei he Vatikano e Sutt 'i Nuku'alofa.  Kuo 'osi pea 'oku lolotonga fai e ngaue ki hono fakama'opo'opo e kakai ko enii 'i he tukunga 'o Muli pe ko e feitu'u 'oku nau 'iaii, ko e pau kenau kau ki he Vahefonua Sutt OZ, NZ, USA mo fe fua , ka nau kau mai ki he Sutt .

e). Ko e Mavahe Mei he Sutt 'i Tonga , 'oku 'ikai ko ha " palopalema pe Koloa :"  eni ia 'o e Sutt pe , 'oku tofuhia 'a Mamani ia he " palopalema mo e Koloa"  'o e mavahe mei he tefito'i Siasi , katau sio pe he Sutt. Ko e mavahe 'oku hoko ko ha palopalema, 'a e mavahe he kee , taaulau 'o a'u ki he fuhuu..ko e fa'ahinga mavahe eni ia 'oku 'ikai totonu ke fakatuia ia 'e he Siasi..matu'aki tukunoa'i kinautoplu kuo lotolahi ke mavahe, ka e tokanga'i 'e he Siasi ia e 'uhinga nenau mavahe ai ke fakaili 'akie  kau toe maii. Ko e fakakoloa 'o e mavvahe,'i he kakai pehe ni, neongo tenau hiki pe mo'enau palopalema , ak 'oku 'iai e 'ea fo'ou kenau manava ai, pea toe 'ata'ataa foki mo e loki 'oku kei nofo ai e toenag ke hu mai ki ai ha 'ea fo'ou kenau manava hake aii...ke ti toe lahi pe ka kuo pehe ke tuku atu ki ha ni'ihi.

ta u toki vakai atu ki he  ng me'a ko eni ha taimi ee

fokotu'u Siasii ..

Fakanofo 'enau kau Ka u  faifekau ..

mo hono ngaue'aki e naunau 'ae Sutt , Tohitapu , Himi mo e ng pepa fakalotu ..

'I he nonga 'ae 'Eiki.

----- Original Message -----

From:

tasil...@googlegroups.com

To:

"via Tasilisili-he-ngaluope" <tasil...@googlegroups.com>

Cc:

Sent:

Wed, 26 Jul 2017 22:27:08 +1200

Subject:

[tasilisili] mafai fokotu'u siasi

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[sep...@optusnet.com.au]

" pea nau ngaue'aki pe 'a e naunau kotoa 'a e SUTT? 'OKU TOTONU NAI? "

Hopo fakalaka ki he konga ko enii.. he ko e konga eni 'oku taau ke tokanga ki ai e Sutt na'anau pisinisi 'aki e koloa 'o Hevani, ka ko e Folofola 'ae 'Otua mo hono ng Same(Himi).

Kapau 'oku tu'u ai e Hingoa 'o e Sutt he naunau, pea 'oku mahino ko e Koloa ia 'ae Sutt, pea ko e totonu ki hono ngaue'aki 'oku mei he Suttt.

'Oku ou tui , kuo tuku atu tau'ataina 'e he Sutt 'ene ng Koloa ki he Book Shop ma'ae kakai 'o e fonua, pea kapau 'oku ngaue 'aki 'e he kakai , taau ke fakafeta'i e Sutt ai mo faka'ai'ai hono nga lelei fakahevani
he 'oseni 'o e faka'Otuamate 'oku tau toutai tangata ai , ke ikuna'i ha'a kakai ma'a e Pule'anga 'o e 'Otua..

Ko e hono ngaue 'aki 'i he Kulupu , pe ko ha feohi'anga 'oku taau ke 'iai ha lau ia ki ai 'ae Konifelenisi, ka 'oku ou tui ko hono fakatau atu pe 'i Bookshop, 'oku taumu'a pe ia ki ha langa mo'ui fakafo'ituitui pea 'e kau ai
e ng Kulupu mo e Siasi kehe tenau fie ngaue 'akii..mahalo ko e sio fakalaumalie eni ai,, ka 'oku fiema'u 'e he fo'u pepa ia ha sio fakalao ee

'I he nonga 'ae 'Eiki.

----- Original Message -----

From:

tasil...@googlegroups.com

To:

<tasil...@googlegroups.com>

Cc:

Sent:

Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:49:08 +1000

Subject:

Re: [tasilisili] mafai fokotu'u siasi

[Henry Niumeitolu]

ko Sisu 'a e 'ulu ki hono Siasi, pea moe mafai ke fokotu'u.pea koe Tu'i pe ke ne ok e mavahe mei he Siasi Sutt, so let it be a very involved affair, and never make it easy unless everyone affirm that this is of the Lord and the King approved. love 'elaona.

On Wed, 26/7/17, Jione Havea <jha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: [tasilisili] mafai fokotu'u siasi

To: "via Tasilisili-he-ngaluope" <tasil...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, 26 July, 2017, 23:27

[007]

Malo 'etau lava pea ko e fakakaukau ko eni 'i he 'eku vakai ki ai hange kuo honge e SUTT ha founga ke fakafoki mai si'i fa'ahinga pehe ni .............

Hange ko e fakatonutonu fakalao kuo 'iai 'a e Siasi Tokaikolo mo e Siasi Mo'uifo'ou ....... mahino 'a e totonu fakalao ia 'a e Siasi Tokaikolo ........ Kaikehe, 'oku hange 'oku hiki leva 'etau fakamamafa mei he Toutai tangata ki he Toutai Koloa. Hange ko e issue 'i Tuinga Papai pea tatau ai pe ia pe ko e ha 'enau 'uhinga (Faifekau) ka 'oku hange 'oku hoko 'a e me'a ko ia ko e langa falelotu, hall etc ke si'i mapuna ai 'a e ngaahi fakakaukau pehe ni. Pea 'asinga ai mo e si'i e kataki ta 'e penisoni pe 'a e Rev. Pule ka kuo mao e mavahe ia ha ha ha ..........

Ko e talanoa malie foki ki he fiki ta'e fua 'a e kole 'a e tauhi ngoue ke 'oua 'e li'aki kae tuku ke fai ha feinga .........Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding.........kou tui ka fakatokanga'i e afi 'ene kamata pea tokoni'i kei taimi 'e 'ikai ketau to e fktonutonu he koloa ka ko 'etau LAUMALIE PE !!!! ........ ko e afi ko ena 'i Tuingapapai na'e fuoloa 'ene uloulo pehe hake 'i 'Eua, Vava'u pea ki'i break ai 'o mapuna ko ena 'i NZ na ........... kaikehe, mahu'inga ke 'oua 'e langa ha 'aa vahevahe ka 'oku mahuinga e 'A'Ahi Kakai ............ he ko e si'i kakai pe na'e 'iai honau 'aonga hotau loto fale ..............

'Ofa atu All

[Pauli Kienga]

Lau 'ae kau fakalelei...fai pe ena ..fai pe eni ..kehe pe kenau lelei mo melino......koe fehu'i tenau ma ikuna noa he ivi 'oe LAMI.....Foki Sisu mei langi 'o toe ala mai ngali kuo waiwai ........

'ofa moe hufaki.....

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[Penisimani Mone]

Ngaahi fehu'i ki ha pepa...fakatotolo?...fakaako?...faka'ilo ha taha?...etc..

Ko e ha 'a e Siasi?...

1. koe mavahe mei SUTT 'o fokotu'u siasi Sutt pea nau fakanofo 'enau faifekau moe kau ma'u lakanga pea nau ngaue'aki pe 'a e naunau kotoa 'a e SUTT? 'OKU TOTONU NAI?...

Na'a tau papitaiso kinautolu (kau mavahe) 'o nau hoko ko e kau memipa kakato 'o e SUTT, pea 'oku nau kei memipa kakato pe kinautolu kae 'oua ke nau toki publicly recant their faith/membership, 'a ia 'oku fa'a fakahaa 'i he ngaahi fakataha fakakuataa pea to'o ai honau membership...

Ko ha'anau mavahe 'o toe fokotu'u ha siasi SUTT kehe, 'Oku totonu nai?...totonu nai kia hai/tafa'aki fee?...totonu fakalao?....totonu fakasiasi?...totonu fakatala'otua?....etc

Me'a pe 'oku mahinoo, na'a tau papitaiso ko e kau memipa kakato, te'eki ke nau publicly recant their faith, 'oku nau kei memipa kakato kinautolu he SUTT Tongaa na'a nau papitaiso aii, 'ikai malava 'e he'enau mavahee ke to'o ai honau memipa ne nau ma'u mei he papitaisoo, pea 'oku nau kei SUTT pe nautolu, kae'oua ke nau toki publicly recant...ko ia, 'e toe faingofua ange tali ki he fehu'i ni kapau 'e 'eke ki he kau mavahee pe ko 'enau mavahee 'oku nau faka'ikai'i ai 'a 'enau tui ne fai'aki honau papitaisoo kae to'o aa honau membership, pea ala faka'ilo fakalao, etc...pea kapau 'oku nau mavahe pe nautolu kae 'ikai te nau faka'ikaii 'enau tuii, pea ta 'oku totonu fakatokateline pe 'enau mavahee 'anautolu pea/he 'oku nau kei memipa pe nautolu mei he papitaiso SUTT...pea kei 'i ai 'enau totonu ke nau ngaue'aki ha naunau 'o e siasi ne nau papitaiso aii mo nau kei memipa aii...

ka ko e anga pe lau

--

fakapulia

[Sami Pakofe]

Malie Fakapulia, pea oku'iai e aata faingofua kihe mavahe, hange koe talanoa'oe Foha maumau Koloa, na"ane fili ke"onge"/vahe'i ange hono inasi, but the Father accepted his choice/decision/ need, but in his heart, he is still love his son,  koe me'a oku hoko oku hange ha fo'i "fano" fefusiaki pe o mafao mo fotunga kehekehe ka oku nau kei ihe fo'i fano pe,,. Koe'mavahe ka e toe liu/feliuliuki mai,,,.

malie'ia pe he fktalanoa a Fakapulia...

Sami

[Penisimani Mone]

Malo Sami, pea ko e ki'i faingata'a eni na'e ai e laulea he koni 'o e ta'u ni, he na'e ai e fokotu'u he konii na'a ne define e membership 'o e SUTT na'e pehee ...Ke lau 'a kinautolu kotoa pe 'oku hiki honau hingoaa 'i he Tohi Kakai 'a e siasii ko kinautolu ia 'oku memipa he SUTT...i) 'o fua'aki e membership 'aki 'a e Tohi kakaii ka ne li'aki 'e ia 'a e papitaisoo....ii) kuo fuoloa hono fa'a ngaue hala'aki, tokua ko e tu'unga "Lotu Fehu'ii" ko e memipa kakato ia 'i he siasii, 'osi angee, kuo nau 'osi memipa kakato pe kakaii ia mei honau papitaisoo...pea ko e konifemasio 'o e Lotu Fehu'ii, ko e confirmation pe ia of faith ne fai 'i he papitaisoo, kae 'ikai ko ha confirmation of membership...

Sai pe 'a Tonga ni ia, he 'oku kainga 'a e Tohi Kakaii mo e kau papitaisoo, ka 'i muli na, 'oku lahi e kakai SUTT ia ne tau papitaiso 'i heni 'oku nau lotu kinautolu 'i he Uniting, United Methodists, etc...pea kau ai mo e kau mavahe 'oku fai hono fehu'ia...1. koe mavahe mei SUTT 'o fokotu'u siasi Sutt pea nau fakanofo 'enau faifekau moe kau ma'u lakanga pea nau ngaue'aki pe 'a e naunau kotoa 'a e SUTT? 'OKU TOTONU NAI?...

Kapau na'e tali 'e he Konii 'a e fokotu'u na'e faii...Ke lau 'a kinautolu kotoa pe 'oku hiki honau hingoaa 'i he Tohi Kakai 'a e siasii ko kinautolu ia 'oku memipa he SUTT....pea 'e tohi kakai mai  leva 'a e kau memipa 'o e ngaahi Vahe Fonua 'i muli naa, ...i)...ko e kau memipa pe ia 'o e SUTT, ka 'e 'ikai kei memipa ai 'a kinautolu 'oku nau lolotonga lotu 'i he ngaahi siasi kehee...ii) lolotonga ia ne te'eki pe ke recant 'e he kakai ko iaa 'enau faith ne fai'aki honau papitaisoo..

Ko ia ai....a) ke 'oua 'e fu'u 'afungi 'a kinautolu 'oku nau lolotonga lotu mo tohi kakai  'i ha fai'anga lotu 'a ha Vahe Fonua SUTT 'i muli na mo nau pehee, Ko kimautolu pe 'oku mau memipa he SUTT...he 'oku 'ikai fai'aki e SUTT Membership 'aki ha Tohi Kakai, ka ko e Membership by baptism...

e) Ke tokanga 'a e SUTT ke ne kei fai hono fatongia na'a ne tala'ofa ki ai ki he kakai kotoa pe ne ne papitaiso...'Oku tau fakahuu  'a e tamasi'i/ta'ahine ni ki he Siasi 'o Kalaisii, ke akonekina ia 'i he ngaahi tokateline mo e to'onga 'o e Lotu Fakakalisitianii...'o 'oua te ne nofotaha pe ia ki hono kau memipa tohi kakai 'o hono ngaahi Vahe Fonuaa..

f) Ke tokanga 'a e kau memipa SUTT kotoa pe ne papitaiso 'e he SUTT 'i ha'anau mavahe ke nau fakamahino ai, pe 'oku nau recant ai 'enau faith ne fai'aki honau papitaiso he SUTT koe'uhi kae fakahaa ia 'i he Fakataha Fakakuataa 'a e Vahe Fonua takitaha, pea 'e toki to'o ai honau ngaahi hingoaa mei he Membership 'o e SUTT, pea kapau 'oku 'ikai te nau recant ai 'enau faith, pea 'oku 'ikai malava 'e he SUTT ke ne to'o noa'ia (excommunicate) ha membership 'o ha taha ne ne 'osi papitaiso... 

i) Kapau ko ia, pea ta 'oku kei memipa SUTT 'a e kakai kotoa pe ne papitaiso 'e he SUTT, 'o tatau aipe pe 'oku nau lotu 'i he siasi fee. kae''oua ke nau recant their faith...pea ka nau foki mai ki Tonga ni, they still have full civl and ecclegiestical rights ke huu ki ngaahi falelotu SUTT 'o lotu ai, alea ai, malanga ai, mo ngaue'aki ha naunau 'a e SUTT...'a ia 'oku nau kei memipa kakato ai...etc...

ka ko e anga pe laulau...

[Tevita Langi]

Ki'i fehu'i Fakapulia... Kohai 'oku ha'ana e thesis ni? 

[Penisimani Mone]

Malo Soakai...Ko e fehu'i 'e tahaa...Ko hai ne fai ki ai e fehu'i ni?..hahaha..

...sai ke tau 'ilo...

[Sione]

Koe ha 'oku mavahe ai ha siasi mei he SUTT 'o kei ngaue'aki pe e himi kae 'uma'a Tohitapu Katoa moe tootoo'onga lotu?? Ko e koloa ia 'ae siasi fakalao nai?? 

Kapau 'e hopo'i ke tapu 'enau ngaue'aki koe ha hono maumau?? 'E fakaava 'a Heli??

Malo Fakapulia!!

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fakapulia

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fakapulia

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fakapulia

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[Penisimani Mone]

Malo Koloti...'e fai atu pe eni pea tau toe foki ki he kalasi ecclegiology eeh...hahaha...malo e ngaue mei hena..

Mahalo 'e malava pe ke ne faka'ilo taha pea hopo if the church is all insitution, pea 'e ala fakaava ai 'a Tolitoli...ka 'e 'ikai mahalo ke ne malava ke ne faka'ilo heni ha taha if the church is invisible community of faith, he ko e Siasi ia 'o Kalaisi, 'ikai hano maumau 'e taha, pea 'oku fakaava ki ai 'a hevani...

...me'a ke tau 'ilo pe...mahalo 'oku kei malava 'e he siasii ke ne to'o hano lakanga ne ne fokotu'u ki ha taha hono kau memipa, ka 'oku 'ikai ke ne malava 'o to'o ha membership 'o ha taha ne ne fokotu'u'aki e papitaisoo...ne ne sila'i'aki e fu'u huafa faufaua...

...ko e taha foki ko e faka'au ke fakamamafa'i ange he 'aho ni e church as a legal insitution mo e lau mafai 'o hai mo e lau faka'ilo 'e hai, kae fakali'eli'aki 'a e church as people of God...invisible and inclusive...ta ko 'etau tohitapu pe, ta ko 'etau tohihimi pe, ta ko 'etau toto'onga lotu kotoa pe 'o mole ai ha 'eke legal ownership... 

ka ko 'etau laulau pe foki eni...

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[Sione]

Malo Fakapulia!

Ko e ha nenau 'ita (heli) ai he siasi pea nau mavahe kae kei ngaue'aki 'ae himi e.g.? Na'a nau lau e.g. Ko e fatongia peito 'o e lotu ko e fakatokalahi 'o Heli. Hange 'oku nau marginalised e siasi 'a hono culture ko Heli kae hili ko ia ka nau kei ngaue'aki pe 'o nge'esi tatau pe!! 

'Oku fakatupu ninimo 'aupito!! 

Teu lava 'eau 'o fa'u hanau himi pea lava 'e Ma'afu Palu 'o liliu hanau Tohitapu! Pea ke fa'u mai Fakapulia hanau Tokateline! Pea tenau fiefia ke fakatau atu hhh 

Malo e talanoa!!

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[Penisimani Mone]

Malo Koloti,...kae 'ikai teu fakapapau'i pe ko hai na'e mavahe mei he SUTT?...ko ee pe ko ee?...pea ko e fetukuaki ia ka lahilahi he church as an institution...ka 'oku 'ikai ko ha fehu'i lahi nai ia he church as a body of Christ..ka ko e kakai kotoa kinautolu ne papitaiso 'e he SUTT pea kei totonu ke ne tokanga'i hono kau memipa...he ngaahi tokateline mo e to'onga e lotuu...'a ia ne ne tala'ofa ki ai..

ko e me'a 'e taha na'a kuo 'ikai kei malava e siasii 'o tulituli ki he ngaahi signs of time...na'a kuo taimi ke tuku e lau SUTT as controlled from one center... ki ha SUTT 'oku tau'ataina hono kau memipa he founga ke nau lotu ai?...pea nau takitaha pule'i pe kinautolu?...'osi, 'oku nau kei memipa kotoa pe he Siasi 'o Kalaisi/SUTT ne ne papitaiso kinautolu...

kae hei'ilo..

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[Tevita Langi]

Kataki Fakapulia.... Pe koha taha o tokoni mai.... 'Oku fu'u fiema'u pe ia ke 'ilo "KOHAI" na'e fehu'i?...  Na'a pikopiko iku mai.... For example... Tohitapu & Himi

Mälö

tlangi

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[Penisimani Mone]

Malo Soakai...mahalo ko 'etau ki'i motu'a ako BD pe heni, ko Wayne Vaa'i...'o hangee ko e tu'asila he tohii.... <wayn...@gmail.com>...'oku fai 'ene fakatotolo he mavahevahe 'a e SUTT...ko ha hoko mai eni mahalo mei he fakama'opo'opo fakamuimui 'a Makisi, Viliami Petelo (rip), Havili, etc...

...ka ke toki ha'u pe 'o inu'i heni ke 'oua e fa'a 'eke me'a noa'ia ee..hahaha...

[Sione]

Malo Fakapulia e tokoni!!

Institution vs body of Christ!!

Ko e me'a pe na'a nau hiva'i 'e kinautolu e himi "Ha'u 'eni Fafine.." he me'afaka'eiki hhh

[Penisimani Mone]

Ko ia Koloti....hahaha...'e fai pe pea te tau a'u ki ai...kae hiva'i e "'Oku fuonounou 'etau mo'ui" he papi...mani ee...hahah

[Seer]

'Oku ou fakakau mai 'a wayne heni, telia na'a 'oku 'ikai sio mai ia ki he felafoaki 'oku fai. Pea 'oku mahu'inga pē ke ki'i hu mai 'o tataki e talanoa, kae lava ke tau lue atu 'i ha hala kuo kini. Ko e 'atunga ee e lue hala vao, kuo 'ikai toe 'ilo ia pe ko e fe te te foua.

Hange kiate au ko e pepa 'a wayne 'oku tefito 'i he fo'i fehu'i 'a e Palesiteni Malolo, koe ha 'etau me'a 'e fai ki he palopalema kuo hoko? Ko e ha e palopalema 'oku tuhu ki ai fehu'i? mavahe mei he Siasi? fokotu'u Siasi? ngaue'aki e naunau (tohi) 'a e Siasi? He 'oku 'ikai ko ha palopalema e mavahe ia mei he Siasi, pea 'oku 'ikai ko ha palopalema e fokotu'u Siasi ia, pea 'oku 'ikai teu tui 'oku lau ko e palopalema 'a e ngaue 'aki 'e ha taha (pe falukunga kakai) e naunau (tohi) 'a e Siasi Uesiliana Tau'ataina 'o Tonga. Ko ia 'oku mahu'inga ke 'uluaki specify mai 'e wayne ia, pe ko e ha nai 'ene intention 'a'ana ki he 'uhinga 'o e statement ko ena kuo ne qoute mai.

hu mai wayne...

[sep...@optusnet.com.au]

Wayne Vaa'i, " fokotu'u siasi Sutt pea nau fakanofo 'enau faifekau moe kau ma'u lakanga "

Ne u lave ki he mavahe, pea hane kiate au ko e mavahe mei Sutt 'i Tonga ko e 'ikai ha toe fekau'aki he Konisitutone 'ae Sutt, ko e Mavahe 'oku 'iai 'enau Konisitutone kenau ngaue 'aki.

Hange ko mautolu ko eni he UCA , 'oku 'ikai ko e fokotu'u Siasi ia ka ko e fakatata ia 'oku 'ikai ke ko ha memipa mautolu e SUtt, he 'oku pule'i mo tauhi kimautolu 'aki e Konisitutne, pea 'oku 'iai hono nga fatongia he SIasi heni, ko 'emau lii
Sila ki he Vahenga e kau Faifekau mo e ng Misiona 'ae Siasi. 'Oku tohi kimautolu he UCA, ko e confirm member.. ko ia 'oku 'ikai toe lau kimautolu ko ha Sutt, ka kuo mau UCA .

KO e mavahe ko eni 'oku ou tui 'oku fakahangahanga kava he pepa na, hange kiate au 'oku 'uhinga ia ki he fa'hinga 'o e mavahe 'oku 'iai 'a Pulela'a 'i Aussi ni.

Kuo 'osi hilifaki 'enau kau Faifekau, pea 'oku 'ikai kenau toe fakaongoongo ki ha tu'utu'uni mei Tonga 'ae Konifelenisi.

Ko ia 'e fehu'ia  leva 'ae fokotu'u Siasi ni, pe ko e fo'ui 'o hai ne hoko ai enii ?

- Ko ha ta'etokanga nai 'ae Sutt ne tupu ai 'ae toe fokotu'u Siasi ko eni ,?  tupu ai 'a'enau 'ikai toe falala ki he tataki 'oku fai 'e he Sutt, kanau pehe 'i honau loto tenau
fokotu'u pe honau Siasii, pea fokotu'u mo fakanofo honau kau faifekau.

- Pe ko ha esikomunikato fakaongonoa pe 'e he Sutt kinautolu, 'aki e founga nenau mavahe aii.

- Kaekehe , kapau 'oku 'ikai kei taliui ha falukunga kakai 'i Muli ki he tu'ut'uni 'ae Sutt mo 'ene Konifelenisi, 'oku ataa kenau fokotu'u SIasi mo fakanofo hanau kau faifekau he founga 'anautolu..

Kiate au , 'oku 'ikai kei ko ha toe memipa eni ai ' e Sutt 'o Tonga, kuo nau 'osi mavahe..ko e mavahe pe mei he 'Api ako, kuo 'ikai ke te kei ko ha Kolisi lolotonga ka kuo ui kita ko e Kolsisi tutuku he kuo to'o hoto hingoa mei he tohi taliui 'ae Ako lolotonga...ko e mavahe mei he Sutt mo 'ene Konifelenisi, ko e mavahe ia mei he pepa taliui 'ae Siasii.

'Oku 'iai 'enau totonu kenau fokotu'u hanau Siasi, pea Ui ko e Siasi Uesiliana 'o 'Aositelelia , he ko e Siasi Uesiliana ena ia 'o Tonga, ka 'i ha fotunga tenau manako mo sai'ia ai 'o hange ko ia 'oku nau 'iai he 'aho ni.

Kuo 'osi lave ki he nague 'ak e ng naunau 'ae Sutt..ko tonu mo'oni pe , ke tohi he Tohitapu mo e Himi mo e ng naunau 'ae Sutt, 'ikai ke toe ngofua ke ngaue 'aki 'e ha Siasi. Ka e lava ke faka'ilo he kuo tuku ki he maketi bookshop pea 'oku 'ataa ke ngaue 'aki ha tah 'oku ne fakatau.ko 'een ngofau ia ko hono 'oate e $  ka e 'omai e naunau kenau ngaue 'aki.

Ke ma'opo'opo e Sutt mo hono ka u memipa, ko e fou he vahefonua mo 'ene Konifelenisi, mahalo.

"'I he nonga 'ae 'Eiki.

Takamuli.

----- Original Message -----

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tasil...@googlegroups.com

To:

"via Tasilisili-he-ngaluope" <tasil...@googlegroups.com>

Cc:

Sent:

Wed, 26 Jul 2017 22:27:08 +1200

Subject:

[tasilisili] mafai fokotu'u siasi

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[sep...@optusnet.com.au]

Wayne Vaa'i " - koe fehu'i tefito ia 'eku pepa pe oku totonu ke tuku noa'ia pe 'a e koloa 'a e siasi ke pehe'i ko 'ene fie mavahe pe ha taha ia fokotu'u 'ene siasi pea fakanofo pe ia 'aia ke faifekau pule 'oe ki siasi koia ka 'oku 'iloa koe SUTT PE FWC ko 'ene siasi 'ikai fakaongoongo mai ki he 'ulu siasi ki tonga ni pe tuku pe ke nau ma'u moui ai?"

Kapau kuo lava 'e he Sutt ke to'o ha faifekau mo ha lakanga fakalotuu 'o ha taha, ko e ha hano faingata'a ke to'o hano memipa ko 'ene mavahe 'o fokotu'u Siasi mo kau ki ha Siasi kehe ta'e fetu'utaki mo e Sutt ?

'Oku 'ikai pe pule 'a Tonga ia ki he kakai 'o e Sutt 'oku nau mavahe 'o fai honau loto pea ko e fakamo'oni taupotu ia 'oku 'ikai mapule'i 'e he Sutt honau kau memipa 'i muli nii, ko e Kelesii pe 'oku kei nofo mo e SUtt 'o tauhi 'aki 'emau faifailoto 'i muli ni. Ko e Vahefonua ki Tonga 'a ha fonua muli ko e fu'u Kelesi lahi mo'oni ia kuo 'i he SUtt, he ko e mei 'avalsii 'o e ng fokotu'u SUtt 'i Muli ko e feta'efiemalie'aki, tukukehe ai si'i kakai ia ne hiki mai pe ia mo honau u'a Uesiliana 'o fokotu'u 'aki e Sutt 'i Muli.

Ko e mafai , ko e me'a ia 'oku fiema'u 'i ha fa'ahinga kautaha pe, pea 'oku kau e mafai ia he me'a 'oku ne faa tataki e mavahe 'o fokotu'u Siasii..

'I he nonga 'ae 'Eiki.

----- Original Message -----

From:

tasil...@googlegroups.com

To:

"via Tasilisili-he-ngaluope" <tasil...@googlegroups.com>

Cc:

Sent:

Wed, 26 Jul 2017 22:27:08 +1200

Subject:

[tasilisili] mafai fokotu'u siasi

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[Sami Pakofe]

Malo Fkapulia , Koloti e Fakatalanoa lelei kihe Kaveinga pe "Fifili" 'ae tokotaha fa'u Fakamatala ni (Thesis)..Kihe ngaahi " Matavaivai -'oe Tauhi -kakai Fakalumalie - Ihe Sisiai Uesiliana Tau'ataian 'o Tonga. Koia 'oku totonu ke fai meihe ai hono Fakalanga 'ehe Matapaule Fa'u thesis ( fakamolemole atu pe ), 

Ka oku 'ikai ko'ene pehe pe Oku "totonu" nai ke ngaue'aki 'eha Kakai 'ae Koloa 'ae Suttkihe 'enau fai e Lotu ihe taimi oku nau mavahe ai?

" Ko'eku tali kiai KONGA 1 : 'Io Oku totonu, hange koe Fakatalanoa 'a Fakapulia, hili hono pea pehe MAI ehe Faifekau , 'ave o Tauhi pea akonekina" , koe akonekina 'aki e ha ? 'aki e naunau tohi tapu moe tohi himi 'ae Siasi.. 

" Oku totonu foki ke Fakakalakalasi e Mavahe pe koe motu atu meihe SUTT 'o toe fokotu'u Siasi pe koe kau kiha Siasi..

Tuku keu ki talanoa atu i 'Aositelelia ni :

Na'e Kamata'i lelei 'aupito 'ehe Tanagata'eiki Palesiteni Malolo ( Rev Dr S 'Amanaki Havea) 'a hono" alea'i/fa'ufa'u pe fakanofonofo (consitute n agreement)a negotiated and typically legally binding arrangement between" SUTT n Uniting Church of Australia to a course of action.

Ke Lava 'ae Kakai SUTT oku 'aunofo mai ki 'Aositeleia ni o " Ngaue'aki honau ngaahi falelotu, pea nau tokangaekina fakalaumalie 'ae kakai  ( fakamalumalu/Faka'apa'apa'aki) ihe Malumlau 'oe Uniting.

 

( Mou manatu'i koe "Tokoni pe 'eni 'ae Palesiteni, ka oku kei Tau'ataina pe Kakai kihe 'enau fili - Koe Ngaue ne Fai 'ehe Palesiteni - kiateau, It was a Practice of Outstanding Skill-Leadership movement, by practising his knowledge of " PASTORAL CARE (DUTY OF CARE) to the people who migrated or floated up to the Land of Dowenunder, " from Tonga).

Pea ne mou me'ai kotoa pe ne tukuange 'ene kau "muimui 'e tokoni'ihi "'ae vaka ne fo'u 'ehe Palesiteni mo'onautolu " kanau hopo ki tahi 'o kakau - 'ihe 'uhinga ko'eni, Oku nau fie Fakaongoogno pe ki Tonga ( SUTT)..

PEA KOHONO TUKUNGA 'ENI NE PEHE:

1. Kei hoko atu pe kakai ihe " Fakataulama ne fai 'ehe Tanga'eiki Palesiteni" o kei Ihe malumalu pe 'oe Uniting Church. Ngaue 'aki e Koloa 'ae Uniting ( property, tohi himi moetohitapu fakapapalangi)pea nguae'aki ekoloa 'ae SUTT ( himi moe tohitapu), pea Fakatoungaue'aki 'ae ouau 'oe Mali, Sakalmeniti moe papiraiso moe putu)

( use the property of Uniting church without payment)

2. Mavahe mai 'e Kainga o Fokotu'u 'ae Tonga Parish, KOE KONGA KO'ENI OKU NAU TU'U 'iloto .. ko'eku fakatonulea kiai " oku tu'u manga-ua" ( mou kataki pe huftp). fakaongoongo ki Tonga Koni moe Sinoti UCA, fakatou ngaue'aki e koloa moe naunau 'ae Uniting moe Sutt, himi moe tohitapu ihe ongo lea pea moe property)

( used the property of unitng Church without payment)

3. Siasi Uesiliana Pulela'a ( Fakaongoongo kakato ki Tonga-Koni, pea holofa 'ihe ngaahi ta'uange kuo maliu atu ,,, Ngaue'aki eKoloa pe 'anautolu ( property) moe koloa kakato 'ae SUTT, himi moe tohitapu moe ngaahi ouau.pea ko taimi ni kuo mole e me'a kotoa , tautautefito kihe Koloa,,, nau toe kamata fo'ou..

(Fakatokanga'i ange 'eni,,neongo ne holafo pea fai hono kii faofao'ii fakalotu moe fakalao'ehe KOni moe Kianga ni, KA OKU NAU 'OSI FOKOTU'U PE 'ENAU KAU FAIFEKAU PEA OKU LAUMALIE LELEI AUPITO 'AE SIASI NI, koe Siasi Uesilana Tau'ataina o Tonga i Aositelelia, mou fakatonutonu mai kau Aussie kapau kuo 'iai ha hingoa kehe)

4. Siasi Uesiliana Vahefonua 'Aositelelia ( Pule ai 'a Rev Dr.Siokatame Havea). Oku ngaue'aki 'ae Ngaahi Falelotu 'o Uniting -hire, pea oku mahino pe 'enau muimui kihe ouau moe to'oto'onga FakaSUTT ihe tohitapu moe himi moe Tokateline.

5. Siasi Fakaongo, Fakaongoongo ki Tonga - Koni, ikai kenau tali kenau Fakaongoongo kihe Faifekau Pule heni ko Siokatame Havea....... ( toe malieange fa'ahinga faifai loto ko'eni)..Ngaue'aki 'ae Ngaahi holo pe koe kole kenau hire 'ae koloa 'ae Uniting ( falelotu) kenau lotu ai, pea nau ngaue kakato aki 'ae himi moe tohitapu  moe ouau 'oe SUTT.

6. Siasi Metotisi, ngaue'aki 'ae Koloa 'ae Metotisi 'ae Falelotu, pea nau ngaue kakato 'aki 'ae 'himi moe tohitapu moe ouau fakaSUTT..

7. Koe kakai , KUO NAU MAVAHE ATU KIHE NGAAHI FUNGAVAKA kehekehe pe , 'o fai ai 'enau lotu..

8. Ko kakai oku 'ikai kenau oo kinautolu kiha Lotu, tataaitaha pe ka ko'enau tui mohonau loto 'oku kei pikitai pe kihe me'a ne kamata mai mei Tonga 'o Siasi Sutt, o fiefia ke ma'u lotu kiha Siasi oku LOtu kia Sisu ne Pekia, fakamoemole angahala, Toetu'u pea Ha'ele hake pea tene toe foki mai .... Ko au ia.....hhh oku ou 'ihe Uniting Church pe..

I 'Aositelelia ni, 'oku Konga 8, 'ae kakai pe 7 peihe 'a mou lau............teu kii koma hee kau toki foki mai mo'eku Tali hono Ua kihe "fifili"..

Mou Fakatokanga'i 'ae more advantage moe disadvanatage oku tofanga ai 'ae kakai SUTT i Aositelelia,,,

1. Strenght : 'OKu nau Falala kihe 'enau Ngaahi Ngaue moe Pa'anga tene aofangatuku 'ae me'a kotoa pe oku nau loto kiai.  

2. Weak: vaivai fakataki-tauhi kakai -FAKALAUMALIE - pe poto'i fakakaukau faka-tauhi KE TALAKI EMO'ONI MOE TOTONU, kae 'oua 'e ngaue'aki e'afungi. O vaivai ihe Ngaue Fakalaumalie ihe Feohi moe LOtu.. pea koe palopalemaleva oku hamai oku tokolahi 'ae kafo ihe " emotional, physical, psycholosigal abuse, pea ikai malav ke 'ilo'ii kae hoko koemahaki'ia fakaloto.

sami.

[Seer]

Kiate au, ko e UCA, UCNZ, metotisi etc 'oku nau katoa pē 'i he kulupu 'o e mavahe mei he SUTT. Pea teu toki tanaki atu ki ai e famili uesiliana, uesiliana kalisitiane, suttnz mo e ha fua e fanga ki'i siasi iiki hifo. Ka ko e kotoa e ngaahi siasi ko ena, kau ai e metotisi, teu fakahingoa e kulupu ko ia ko e mavahe mei he sutt. He na'a nau mavahe kotoa pee mei Tonga mo e SUTT 'o lotu 'i he ngaahi Siasi ko ena 'oku nau lotu ai.

Ko e pehee ko ia 'oku lelei ange e lotu UCA, UCNZ, metotisi etc 'i ha toe lotu iiki ange, 'oku 'ikai teu tui au ki ai; he hange ko e lau 'a Takamuli, 'oku 'ikai te nau kau kinautolu (kotoa e kulupu mavahe mei he SUTT) 'i ha tohi kakai 'a e SUTT 'i Tonga; pea 'oku 'ikai lau kinautolu ia ko e memipa. 

'Oku toki fakafaikehekehe'i kinautolu ia 'i he levolo 'o e Konifelenisi. Ko e UCA, UCNZ mo e Metotisi, 'oku 'i ai 'enau konifelenisi; pea 'oku fengaue'aki lelei e ngaahi konifelenisi ko ia mo e konifelenisi 'a e SUTT 'i Tonga. Ko e toenga 'o e uesiliana iiki mo toki fokotu'u, 'oku 'ikai ha'anau felave'i mo e konifelenisi 'i Tonga, 'i he levolo 'o e konifelenisi. Kaekehe, ko 'ete folau mai pee ki muli ni pea 'oku te fehu'i hifo, pe teu lotu ai pee 'i he SUTT (va'a 'o e Konifelenisi 'i Tonga), pe teu 'alu au 'o lotu 'i ha Siasi 'oku 'ikai ko ha va'a 'o e SUTT Tonga. Ko e fifili ko ia, 'oku 'i ai 'ene kaunga 'a'ana ki he tefito'i fakakaukau 'o e pepa 'a wayne. He ko e fili (choice) kuo fai 'e he toko lahi ke nau lotu 'i ha Siasi 'oku 'ikai ko ha va'a 'o e SUTT 'i Tonga, 'e ma'u mei ai e palopalema- 'oku taau fakapapau'i 'e wayne, pea toki fokotu'utu'u ai pe 'ene pepa 'oku fa'u.

ka mou tokoni mai pee he 'oku kei ako atu 'a wayne ia ka tau ninimo tautolu...

Ke to'o ho tu'asila mei he memipa he Tasilisili, email ki he tasilisili-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

Ko e website 'a e Tasilisili ko e http://groups.google.com/group/tasilisili

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[sep...@optusnet.com.au]

Ko e me'a 'e taha ke fakatokanga'i e ng  mo'oni'i me'a 'oku tau memipa ai he Kosilio 'a Mamani , 'e kehe ia mo hono tauhi mo lekooti'i 'e memipa FakaSiasi mo Fakakonifelenisi, mahalo .

"i he nonga 'ae 'Eiki .

----- Original Message -----

From:

tasil...@googlegroups.com

To:

<tasil...@googlegroups.com>

Cc:

Sent:

Mon, 31 Jul 2017 10:32:40 +1000

Subject:

Re: [tasilisili] mafai fokotu'u siasi

[Sami Pakofe]

" Ko'eku tali kiai KONGA 1 : 'Io Oku totonu, hange koe Fakatalanoa 'a Fakapulia, hili hono pea pehe MAI ehe Faifekau , 'ave o Tauhi pea akonekina" , koe akonekina 'aki e ha ? 'aki e naunau tohi tapu moe tohi himi 'ae Siasi.. 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KO'EKU TALI KIAI KONGA 2: 

Koe mavahe pe mapaki meihe SUTT, koe "fatongia" (obligation- he kuou faitu'utu'uni kiai, ihe mo'ui lotolu) IA 'OE tANGATA KE FAI HA'ANE FILI/tu'utu'uni, pea koe me'a ia oku tukuange tau'ataina pe ai 'ehe Siasi kefai honau Loto ; HE OKU HANGE KOE LAVE ''a FAKAPULIA, KO'ENAU 'ALU PE 'ANAUTOLU KA OKU NAUKIHE SUTT pe, tukukehe kapau oku hange ko'eni, o toe fai ha papi ia iha Kautaha Lotu kehe.

1. FILI ( CHOICE) koe tu'utu'uni Fakanatula pe ia pea toe Fakatokaleine pea toe Fakatohitapu, KE "FAI 'EHE TANAGTA HA'ANE FILI , ka oku hange 'eni koee koe ta-tatau, fili pe ia ke mavahe o lotu Maama fo'ou pea ngaue'aki e koloa 'ae SuTT, ka koe fo'i SCAR (fo'i-ila) oku kei 'ilonga pe sutt, koia 'a'ene idendity oku tauhi 'ehe SUTT hono lekooti ihe papi, 

pea ka mavahe pea ko'etau lea Fakamavae 'oku totonu ke pehe ni, " 'alu pea manatu'i ke to'oto'o atu ha'o himi moha'o tohitapu ke hoko atu 'aki 'etau ngaue,, koe me'a ia , hhhhh.

2. oKU 'IKAI, 'a'aku keu fakama'u'ii 'ae mavahe moe nofo,  koe lotu koe me'a oku fai 'ihe "loto lelei, moe feohi fiefia ihe 'amanaki lelei, pea ka 'iai leva ha taha oku 'ikai tene ma'u ia, pea oku ne loto ke 'alu , mavahe, pea kuou fiefia au ia aii, kae kehe pe kapau koe me'a ia oku lelei kiai.

3. Ki'ii Fokotu'u atu 'eni, tau tauhi 'etau "kehekehe" faka-fakakaukau 'o tau fefaka'apa'apa'ki ai, katau "nofo'i hifo 'ae " melino " fe koekoe'ii pea kuou tui Koia 'ae " UHO 'OE SIASI SUTT ,  ke hoko 'ene "fanautama koe koloa Fakalumalie ia ma'ae " kakaki kehe oku nau fiemo'ui, pea hoko 'ene koloa koe Tataki mo Tokangaekina'anga 'oha fiema'u ke mo'ui fakalaumalie.

4. KOE NAUNAU TOHITAPU PE HIMI:

koe ha oku tau Fakamahu'inga'i ai 'ae Ngaue'aki 'ehe kakai koe 'ae Koloa 'ae SUTT? koe ha nai hono 'uhinga oku tau fehu'ia ai, hili koia kuo nau mavafe?

1. Oku 'ikai keu tui koe kola ia 'ae SUTT , koe KOLOA IA 'AE 'OTUA , 'aia nene fakafou mai ihe :

    (a) KAU MISINALE

    (e) Kau Faifekau

    ( f) kau muimui

    (h) kau faiako- 

KOE SUTT koe Tauhi Koloa pe, ka oku 'ikai kenau "owner" e koloa koia, koe momeniti 'enau pehe mai ko'enau Koloa, pea " TA KOE PEKIA MOE TOETU'U 'a KALAISI koe koto loi he koe uho 'oe SUTT koe Talaki 'ae Mo'ui Ta'engata 'aia e fakafou mai 'ia Sisu Kalaisi "ihe 'OFA-'AUFUATO PE 'AE TAMAI 'O IKAI HA TOTONGI", pea oku taau ke muimui kai 'ae kau fokotu'u lotu kotoa, pea kuo hoko o fungani hake he mea' kotao pe 'ae " Ngaue Fakamisinale 'ae SUTT, ihe Faka'evangelio, ihe malanga'i 'a Sisu mohono Mahu'inga, ihe Fakaului kakai 'ihe Ngaue 'ofa moe tokangaekina, Kae hulu atu 'enau " tuku atu 'ae 'enau Mata'i Koloa kuo nau Tauhi, 'ae Himi moe TohiTapu ke hoko ia koe guide-line pe Tataki'anga 'o kakai oku fiemo'ui honau Laumalie 'o 'ikai "eke ha totongi pe koha mahu'inga -- " God Bless SUTT

Kohono taumu'a ke "FAKAMO'UI-FAKALAUMALIE" 'ae KAKAI KOTOA PE..

kohono 'uhinga ia ne kamata ai 'e Sione Uesele, 'ae Metotisi ke tau'ataiana 'ae kakai kotoa pe oku fiemo'ui iha'a nau "kumi/ fiema'u' ha tokoni fakalumalie, meihe Tohitapu pe faifekau 'o 'ikai "fakapatonu" pe hange koe Katolika Loma , tatali pe kia Patele, pe koe Siasi ingilani, ka ikai lava mai 'a Pisope pea tali pe ke ha'u,,,,,, 

Oku 'ikai tui pehe 'ae " Feohi'anga Uesiliana, he oku tau tui koe "OTUA 'OKU NE IHE POTU KOTOA PE, pea kapau oku tau Lave'i ia, pea ta oku totonu ke oua tetau fehu'iia'ii 'a hono Ngaue'aki 'ehe a kakai kuo nau mavahe 'ae HimiMoeTohitapu,,,,,,,,,,,,,tuku kehe sii matakali fiema'u seniti ko'eni ne lave kiai 'a Sitenitoni Palu, toe 'ai ia ke totongi pea toki omai koaa....'Oku 'ikai taau ia moe Lotu Lelei oku atu fetangutu'i ai..

KO 'EKU TALI KIHE NGAAHI FIFILI NI,  'OKU TAAU KENAU NGAUE'AKI, 'IOO 100%

Kuonga 'eni o KALAISI, 'ikai koe KUONGA 'eni 'oe Fuakavamotu'a, ke Fefakatonutonu'aki kohai oku tonu ke 'i hee kohai oku 'ikai taau moee, Ko Kalaisi  ihe Kuonga ni, ke " MO'UI 'ene Folofola he koe Lea Fakaofo ia koia 'ae Lea oku vovo' he koe " Fu'ufu'unga mo'ui,

" Oku 'ia Kalaisi pe he folofola mo'ui,

" Na'e pehe he kamata'anga - he folofola mo'ui

"Ufi'akau e funga fonua -he folofola mo'ui

" Toe hoko mo Sisu ia - he folofola mo'ui,

" Sisu ne foaki pe - he folofola mo'ui

" KUO a'u atu he ngaahi Kakai - he folofola mo'ui

 Lau ai kimonuu ha fu'u tokolahi-he folofola mo'ui

 Fai pe 'ae fusi fonua

 Hiki kakai ki 'olunga

 Lea Fakaofo

 Lea 'oku vovo

Koe FUFU'UNGA MO'UI ...

MOU toki pupuhi mai 'ena....

smp.

[Seer]

mahalo 'oku totonu ke kole kia wayne ke foki 'o 'eke ki he'ene faiako, mo kole ki ai ke ne fakalelei'i 'ene fo'i fehu'i 'oku ne kaveinga 'aki. he kapau ko e fehu'i ena 'ene pepa, pe 'oku totonu pe 'ikai; pea ko e tali ki ai 'oku 'io pe mo 'ikai. 'oku 'ikai ko ha research topic lelei ia, pea 'oku tele ia fakanafala.

ka ke lea mai aa wayne, he kuo mau nimo he pupuhi...

[Sami Pakofe]

Kuou Fakatonga'i hake koe fehu'i kohai oku MAFAI KIHE FOKOTU'U SIASI ,,, koe toki fehu'i fakamamahi 'eni he ka pehe ke tautali FakaTohiTapu  pea 'e ngali e meimei nenefu, pea ka Fakatokateline, pea 'e pehe he kohai koaa oku lelei pe taau pe totonu 'ene tokateline, oku ongo fakatamaki 'ae taimi oku tau hanga 'o fehu'ia'ii HOTAU FATONGIA TA'UA'ATINA, taumai aa koha'ate Talangaue, keete 'oatu ha'ate selection criteria pe resume kiai, ka koe me'a pe ia 'a'ata " Ka Oku te LOTO KIAI pea Fai, pea ka 'IKAI oku 'ikai hano maumau..

Kohano faofao Fakalao pe Fakalumalie, Oku Fakamolale pe 'ae fehu'i he oku ne taukave'i 'ae ' totonu 'ae Tangata ke fai tu'utu'uni hange koia neu lave ai kihe fatongia (obligation), pea kihe maau moe ma'uma'uluta, kuo pau ke fai kiai ha muimui telia na'a koha me'a lelei kate li'aki pekoha me'a oku ta'e taau kae tukia ai.

fehu'i,Kohai oku Mafai? :tali, Koau pe ko Koe , therefore if I would like to establish a new Congregation I have to constitute everythings(constitution, Policy and Procedure) regarding the Law/Regulation of the Country we are living in, then associate with other congregations to recognise...  

Na'a tau luelue mai pe he Malumalu 'oe Ngaahi Siasi Lalahi 'aee ne 'osi maau pe pea mahino'i mo 'ilo'i Fakatokateline kinautolu Fakamamani Lahi.......... Ka koe Kuonga ni, koia pe oku le'o lahii lelei mo lelei fakataki pe tauhi kakai neongo 'ene tonu pe hala, ka tene Lava o Fokotu'u ha kii Fainga-Lotu (siasi) pea 'oku malava pe ia 'eha Taha pe...

Heikai ketau kei nofo he Fefakatonutonu'aki, pe kohai e oku totonu pe kohai ee oku hala, ka oku tau Faka'apa'apa'i 'ae Fakakaukau 'oe mavahe moe Mafeia ke Fokotu'u ha Siasi/Fai'anga-lotu ke hoko atu "Oka 'oku malava" , koe me'a pe oku 'ikai taau ketau fepoupou'aki ai mo tali, kapau leva kuo Fokotu'u Siasi Fakasetane mai ha Taha ia, pea oku 'iai pe 'ae 'etau totonu Fakalaumlaie ke Fakafepaki'ii ia telia e veve me mahaki'ia na'ane faka'aufuli e sosaiiete.

Koe Tau'ataina kiha  fili ke fokotu'u siasi oku poupou kai 'ae Lao ta'e veiveiau, he okutaukave'i tau'atiana 'ehe lao 'ae totonu 'ae Tangata, koe tonounou ai koe me'a ia 'ae Fakamaau'anga oe fonua koia pe koe state.

Oku 'iai 'ae totonu Taki taha 'ae Tangata kotoa ke "muimui " kihe 'ene TUI pe Fakakaukau, KA KE 'OUA na'a hoko ia koha Fakatamaki'anga (physival. emotional, pysichological and spiritual abuse) pe hoko ko'ene fai iha founga 'oha Fakafaikehekehe'i (discrimination) ha kakai pe matakali.

Oku 'ihe lao pe 'ae Founga/Fa'unga kete muimui kiai, 'oka oku te fie hoko koha MAFAI-KE FOKOTU'U hato Siasi,, PEA KIATE AU, 'oku 'ikai ke 'iai hano maumau , tuku kehe pe hange ko'eku lave kimu'a , kapau koe fokotu'u ia ha Siasi oku faha'ikehe'ia ia ( tevolo'ia), hhhh.

Kuo pau pe foki ke pehee mai e tokotaha, koe fokotu'u Siasi ha taha ne ako lelei FakaFaifekau, pe poto faka 'ekatemika........... koe me'a pe ia 'aeTokotaha oku Mafai kene Fakahoko 'a hono Fatongia...... Ka Fa'a ia Kalaisi pe ia pea oku malava noa pe, pea ka Poto ia ka oku 'ikai tui ia kia Kalsisi ko'ene fai pe 'e ia ke ma'u ai ha'ane seniti koe toe me'a pe moia 'a'ana...... Koia pe ia tene 'ilo'i 'ae Lelei moe kanongatamaki..

kuo loloa etalanoa ia, pea mahalo koe-underground 'eni ia ee..

sami.

[Sami Pakofe]

hange kiate au ne 'omai pe 'ene email, ketau fakakohukohu ange ai, ka kiate au, 

koe fakakoloa 'oe paenga ni kohono " faofao'i " mohono Fakahamolemole'i ha fakakaukau meihe kau memipa, 

pea koe me'a ia kuou manako ai he tuku mai pe 'ete kii fakakohukohu ki loto heni neongo pe oku moho 'ota ke toki microwave'ii pea neongo pe oku 'ikai ifo ka ke toki 'ai hano me'a fakaifoifo 'i loto ni,,

pea ka oku tungotunga pe folipelipa, pea oku malava pe ia 'ehe ka fakafuofuolele'i hono fakafuolelei mohano fakahamolemole'ii..

hhhh, 'iooo kii milimili ai he oku momoko...

sami.

 

[Fatai Slender]

from: Fatai

to: Sami

Subject: Re: Mafai fokotu'u Siasi.

Ko e me'a tau'ataina pe ke mou fakakohukohu ka 'oka a'u atu pe ki ha taimi kuo kohutu'u 'o mau fulutamakia ai pea

mou kataki 'o ki'i manava ai. Malo

Fatai

---

From: tasil...@googlegroups.com <tasil...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Sami Pakofe <smpa...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 31 July 2017 3:06 AM
To: tasilisili
Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: mafai fokotu'u siasi

 

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[sep...@optusnet.com.au]

Malo Seer, " ka mou tokoni mai pee he 'oku kei ako atu 'a wayne ia ka tau ninimo tautolu..."


Ui atu ange 'a Wayne, pe ko ha'ane kole lau pe ia 'a'ana, he 'oku anga fakaninimo hhh.

----- Original Message -----

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tasil...@googlegroups.com

To:

<tasil...@googlegroups.com>

Cc:

Sent:

Mon, 31 Jul 2017 14:41:02 +1300

Subject:

Re: [tasilisili] mafai fokotu'u siasi

Ke to'o ho tu'asila mei he memipa he Tasilisili, email ki he tasilisili-...@googlegroups.com

Ko e website 'a e Tasilisili ko e http://groups.google.com/group/tasilisili

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[sep...@optusnet.com.au]

Malo Koloti, " Teu lava 'eau 'o fa'u hanau himi pea lava 'e Ma'afu Palu 'o liliu hanau Tohitapu! Pea ke fa'u mai Fakapulia hanau Tokateline! Pea tenau fiefia ke fakatau atu hhh "


Mou 'ofa mai 'o fei mo 'ai , he 'oku ou tui au temou toe faingata'a'ia lahi he kaha'u..hhh

----- Original Message -----

From:

tasil...@googlegroups.com

To:

<tasil...@googlegroups.com>

Cc:

Sent:

Sun, 30 Jul 2017 19:12:31 +0000

Subject:

Re: [tasilisili] Re: mafai fokotu'u siasi

[waynevaai]

malo si'i tokoni ....

On Wednesday, July 26, 2017 at 4:10:51 AM UTC-8, hamilton-raglan wrote:

Hhh... faifekau, 'ikai ke ke sii ofa atu 'o tali atu ke vave. Mahalo naa tokoni
ange ha'ane fetu'utaki kia Rev Paula Latu ke 'oange hisitolia e kamata 'a e
mavahevahe mo e fokotu'u Siasi. Ko e mavahevahe 'a e kakai Tonga 'o Aotearoa o
a'u ki he 90 kuo 'osi hiki ia e Rev Sifa Hinga pea hange kiate au 'e ala ma'u pe
tatau i Tonga na mei Rev Ikani Tolu. Ko e Oz e ala ma'u atu meia Sami Pakofe...

Quoting Jione Havea <jha...@gmail.com>:

> Ka mou ka faingamalie pea tokoni atu ki he faka'eke'eke ko eni:
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: <wayn...@gmail.com>
> Date: 2017-07-26 15:55 GMT+12:00
>
> malo tau lava pea malo e tau moe ngaue lahi koeku ki kole tokoni pe
> 'a'aku
> 'i he'eku lau hifo 'a e ki'i kolomu koe mafai fokotu'u siasi 'a Sisu pe
> 'oku tonu 'eku mahalo ka koe ki kavaeinga mahu'inga 'ena ia ki au he
> 'oku
> ou lolotonga fa'u 'eku pepa 'i Sia'atoutai 'i he kaveinga ko 'ena pea
> ko
> 'eku fie kau he talanga na'a lava ke tokoni ki hee'eku ki ngaue 'oku fai
> ke
> fakakakto 'aki 'eku ako;

> - koe ngaahi fehu'i fakalanga fakakukau 1. koe mavahe mei SUTT 'o

> fokotu'u
> siasi Sutt pea nau fakanofo 'enau faifekau moe kau ma'u lakanga pea nau

> ngaue'aki pe 'a e naunau kotoa 'a e SUTT? 'OKU TOTONU NAI?
> - Manatu ki he fakamatala fakata'u 'a e palesiteni malolo ko Sione
> 'Amanaki
> havea 'i he konifelenisi 'o e 1983 na'a pehe ai " kohotau fangatokoua
> moe
> fangatuofafine mo 'etau fanau 'oku nau mavahe 'o fokotu'u 'enau siasi.
> kuo

> fokotu'u mo 'enau ako pea koetau fanautama pe 'eni 'a e SUTT. 'Oku nau
> kei

[waynevaai]

malo tau lava malo tau.moe ngaue lahi.moe.lotu mei he fale ni

-kataki atu.pe he puli fuoloa koe mau eni faingamalie e hu mai ki he kole naaku fai.

-kataki pe oku nofo.eku fifili aaku i he fanga kii siasi ikai ha fetuutaki mai ki tonga nj pe ko ha meto i muli ka nau fakanofo pe enau faifekau ngaueaki toto'onga lotu ae sutt...ex; oku nau fai e sakalameniti ohomohe hili oku iai hono lao?.....etc

-fakanofo faifekau oku ikai e halafononga oku fononga ai e faifekau sutt pea toki fakamafaii i he koni koe faifekau sutt.

-koe lau koee ki he tohitapu moe himi oku ou tui oku ata pe ia ki he taha kotoa he koe toki.liliu pe ia mei he lea hepelu moe kalisi ki he lea fakatonga koe tohitapu a e Tonga.

koe kongai fakatata pe ena ..kau ki afe he o tali ki ha tokoni ....

-fakamalo atu homou fietokoni ki he ki fakatangai vaivai ni malo pea oku ou kei fiemau pe homou tokoni...

-ofa atu moe lotu..

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------

From: sep...@optusnet.com.au

Date: 27/07/2017 12:49 pm (GMT+13:00)

To: tasil...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [tasilisili] mafai fokotu'u siasi

- koe ngaahi fehu'i fakalanga fakakukau 1. koe mavahe mei SUTT 'o fokotu'u siasi Sutt pea nau fakanofo 'enau faifekau moe kau ma'u lakanga pea nau ngaue'aki pe 'a e naunau kotoa 'a e SUTT? 'OKU TOTONU NAI?

1. Mavahe.
 a). 'Oku taau ke fakatokanga'i e mavahe mo hono 'uhinga 'i he tukunga 'oku 'iai e kakai Uesiliana 'oku nau mavahe. Ko e mavahe mei he SUTT 'o folau  ki Mull 'o fokotu'u ai e Sutt, 'oku 'uhinga pe ia 'oku 'ikai ha Sutt 'i Muli pea 'oku nau kei fie Sutt pe neongo
'enau hiki 'o ma'ma'o mei he Vatikano e Sutt 'i Nuku'alofa.  Kuo 'osi pea 'oku lolotonga fai e ngaue ki hono fakama'opo'opo e kakai ko enii 'i he tukunga 'o Muli pe ko e feitu'u 'oku nau 'iaii, ko e pau kenau kau ki he Vahefonua Sutt OZ, NZ, USA mo fe fua , ka nau kau mai ki he Sutt .

e). Ko e Mavahe Mei he Sutt 'i Tonga , 'oku 'ikai ko ha " palopalema pe Koloa :"  eni ia 'o e Sutt pe , 'oku tofuhia 'a Mamani ia he " palopalema mo e Koloa"  'o e mavahe mei he tefito'i Siasi , katau sio pe he Sutt. Ko e mavahe 'oku hoko ko ha palopalema, 'a e mavahe he kee , taaulau 'o a'u ki he fuhuu..ko e fa'ahinga mavahe eni ia 'oku 'ikai totonu ke fakatuia ia 'e he Siasi..matu'aki tukunoa'i kinautoplu kuo lotolahi ke mavahe, ka e tokanga'i 'e he Siasi ia e 'uhinga nenau mavahe ai ke fakaili 'akie  kau toe maii. Ko e fakakoloa 'o e mavvahe,'i he kakai pehe ni, neongo tenau hiki pe mo'enau palopalema , ak 'oku 'iai e 'ea fo'ou kenau manava ai, pea toe 'ata'ataa foki mo e loki 'oku kei nofo ai e toenag ke hu mai ki ai ha 'ea fo'ou kenau manava hake aii...ke ti toe lahi pe ka kuo pehe ke tuku atu ki ha ni'ihi.

ta u toki vakai atu ki he  ng me'a ko eni ha taimi ee

fokotu'u Siasii ..

Fakanofo 'enau kau Ka u  faifekau ..

mo hono ngaue'aki e naunau 'ae Sutt , Tohitapu , Himi mo e ng pepa fakalotu ..

'I he nonga 'ae 'Eiki.

----- Original Message -----

From:

tasil...@googlegroups.com

To:

"via Tasilisili-he-ngaluope" <tasil...@googlegroups.com>

Cc:

Sent:

Wed, 26 Jul 2017 22:27:08 +1200

Subject:

[tasilisili] mafai fokotu'u siasi

Ka mou ka faingamalie pea tokoni atu ki he faka'eke'eke ko eni:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <wayn...@gmail.com>
Date: 2017-07-26 15:55 GMT+12:00

malo tau lava pea malo e tau moe ngaue lahi koeku ki kole tokoni pe 'a'aku 'i he'eku lau hifo 'a e ki'i kolomu koe mafai fokotu'u siasi 'a Sisu pe 'oku tonu 'eku mahalo ka koe ki kavaeinga mahu'inga 'ena ia ki au he 'oku ou lolotonga fa'u 'eku pepa 'i Sia'atoutai 'i he kaveinga ko 'ena pea ko 'eku fie kau he talanga na'a lava ke tokoni ki hee'eku ki ngaue 'oku fai ke fakakakto 'aki 'eku ako;
- koe ngaahi fehu'i fakalanga fakakukau 1. koe mavahe mei SUTT 'o fokotu'u siasi Sutt pea nau fakanofo 'enau faifekau moe kau ma'u lakanga pea nau ngaue'aki pe 'a e naunau kotoa 'a e SUTT? 'OKU TOTONU NAI?
- Manatu ki he fakamatala fakata'u 'a e palesiteni malolo ko Sione 'Amanaki havea 'i he konifelenisi 'o e 1983 na'a pehe ai " kohotau fangatokoua moe fangatuofafine mo 'etau fanau 'oku nau mavahe 'o fokotu'u 'enau siasi. kuo fokotu'u mo 'enau ako pea koetau fanautama pe 'eni 'a e SUTT. 'Oku nau kei ngaue'aki pe 'a toto'onga lotu 'a e Uesiliana pea ko 'enau me'a kotoa 'oku fakauesiliana. Ko 'eku fehu'i atu konifelenisi kakato ; koe ha hatau me'a 'e fai ki he palopalema kuo hoko?
- koe fehu'i tefito ia 'eku pepa pe oku totonu ke tuku noa'ia pe 'a e koloa 'a e siasi ke pehe'i ko 'ene fie mavahe pe ha taha ia fokotu'u 'ene siasi pea fakanofo pe ia 'aia ke faifekau pule 'oe ki siasi koia ka 'oku 'iloa koe SUTT PE FWC ko 'ene siasi 'ikai fakaongoongo mai ki he 'ulu siasi ki tonga ni pe tuku pe ke nau ma'u moui ai?
-ko fe kupu 'i he siasi SUTT PE FWC 'oku monuka 'i he palopalema ni?
- 'oku mata he me'ani 'oku hoko ia 'i muli 'i hotau kainga tonga pe 'o 'ikai koha toe matakali kehe? fakatata pe ki he palopalema na'e toki hoko 'i siasi 'o tuingapapai 'i nz maumau na'e hoko 'i he mavahe 'a e konga moe SUTT NZ Kae nofo 'a e konga moe FWC TUINGA PAPAI?
- Kataki pe he faka'efi'efi noa 'atu 'a eku ki'i kaveinga ka ko 'eku kole tokoni pe he fale ni na'a ma'u ha koloa mahu'inga ke fakakato'aki e ki'i feinga vaivai.

koeku email 'ena ktki fakamolemole ha taha pe fie tokoni ki he'eku kole 'ata pe ke tokoni ki heku feinga ako.... wayn...@gmail.com... malo moe hufia n 'ofa atu

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[Taniela Tuita]

Malo e fifili Wayne, ko e fehu’i mu’omu’a foki he ‘etau ngaahi fktaha’anga, kohai ‘oku tau ‘I heni pea fkongo mai ‘e he Sekelitali pe ko e Setuata etc “Sea ‘oku poaki mai ‘a me’a mo me’a…” ‘oku peheni nai ‘etau talanga he vakai mei he su koe SUTT ‘I Tonga ki he ngaahi fai’anga lotu fakaUesiliana ‘I muli Ko e kau poaki mai ‘oku hange ia ko e kau hu atu ‘o ma’u lotu he Meto, UCA Fkongo , Peulisi etc, kuo nau poaki mai ki he lisi he ‘etau tohi ngaue ko e SUTT mo hono Koni ‘I Tonga ka ‘oku nau kei memipa pe hetau sino hamai ‘o Kalaisi ko e oo ki langi hange ko e fkmaama ‘a Fakapulia.

Kaekehe ‘oku ki’I loloto atu e vakili ki he ‘isiu ‘a Wayne nai ‘o pehe ni -fefe ‘a e kau faifekau te nau fokotu’u ‘iakinautolu he kau mavahe he ngaahi fai’anga lotu ‘ikai piki ki ha Konifelenisi ‘I muli? kenau fai e paipitaiso ‘o e fanau ( ‘e lau e fanau ne papi koia ko e kau memipa nai he sino hamai ‘o kalaisi? Ka tali ‘io pea te tau toe foki ki he sikuea taha ta ko e huafa ‘o e Tolutaha’I ‘otua ‘a e mahu’inga ka ‘oku ‘ikai ko e appointment ‘o e tokotaha fai papi pea to e hoko atu e felekeu ta ‘oku malava pe ‘e ha taha ia ke fai papi? Kehe pe ko e Huafa e Tama ke fai ai? mahalo pea hei’ilo. Katau tali ‘ikai pea mahino ta ‘oku nau memipa he church as institution ‘o fakatatau ki he fa’unga pe koia ‘o e siasi koia ne fokotu’u he mavahe  kae fehu’ia e memipa he sino hamai ‘o Kalaisi ka ‘oku kei fihi pe moia he ko e filihi fakaetui foki ‘etau mata’ikoloa. Wayne ko e fehu’I foki ‘e fe’eke ko e mafai mei fe/ pe ‘o hai ke fakanofo/fokotu’u etc he taimi mavahe mei ha konifelenisi kakato regardless pe ko e koni SUTT/ Metotisi pe Uniting. Ngalingali ko ha sino Fakakonifelenisi pe te ne fai e fakamafai otherwise ko e kau mavahe ‘o tu’u’ataa mei ha Konifelenisi muli pe Tonga ko e kau lotu pe ka ‘oku ‘ikai fakatokanga’I fakaetohi taliui ngata pe he’enau kautaha mo kitautolu he TUI mahalo. ‘Oku kei fihi pe pea te’eki ma’ala’ala kae toki kumi atu ha sikola ke ne vete atu tokoua.

[Sami Pakofe]

 Komautolu i muli ni......... lava lelei Fakatou'osi, 'ae "Fokotu'u ha fai'anga Lotu/Siasi, pea toe lava pe o Fokotu'u moe Faifekau, hange koia kuo mou mea'i..'eha kakai oku nau mavahe meihe motu'a siasi.

Mahalo na'a koe "model" ia 'oe onopooni. 

'e mahalo pe he'ikai toe mo'oni e tau lea Tonga koee, " he'ikai tuku e vaka kae fai ha kakau"

mahalo ko hono fulihi 'eni, " ke pehe " Tukuange atu aa e vaka, katau kakau "...... pea oku tau fakamo'oni kiai......... fiha'ii vaka 'eni kuo tukuange kae hopo ekakai ia 'o Kakau , " Ikai oku nau Taufonua pe, pea ikai oku nau toe sainge kinautolu he kau heka 'i vaka?

koe milimili atu pe meihe downunder, " MOE 'IO ATU 'OKU TAAU " kihe kau mavahe kenau fokotu'u, e Siasi moe Faifekau...

koe fakatalanoa pe..

sami

 

[Pauli Kienga]

Koe anga pe eni ia 'oe fakakaukau.....(1) koe fokotu'u (2) moe 'uhinga......( Siasi )..kapau leva e fokotu'u ha siasi....pea moe 'uhinga 'oku 'ikai fenapasi moe tui faka Uesiliana ( SUTT)..pea fokotu'u atu Tapu pea 'oua tenau toe ngaue'aki 'ae ngaahi me'angaue moe 'elemeniti ngaue  'oe SUTT.....(1 a ) Kapau koe faifekau pe memipa SUTT 'oku ne fokotu'u..to'o hono Faifekau moe memipa......tui pe 'e vave ni pe hano fokotu'u atu ....taimi pe fakapapau'i 'ae halafononga 'oe SUTT/Uesi ki he kaha'u ...he luo lahilahi e mo'ua he fokoutua 'ihe femaleleaki......na'a tokoni atu ki he fakatotolo 'oku fai..............

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2017-08-01 10:12 GMT+13:00 Taniela Tuita <taniel...@gmail.com>:

Malo e fifili Wayne, ko e fehu’i mu’omu’a foki he ‘etau ngaahi fktaha’anga, kohai ‘oku tau ‘I heni pea fkongo mai ‘e he Sekelitali pe ko e Setuata etc “Sea ‘oku poaki mai ‘a me’a mo me’a…” ‘oku peheni nai ‘etau talanga he vakai mei he su koe SUTT ‘I Tonga ki he ngaahi fai’anga lotu fakaUesiliana ‘I muli Ko e kau poaki mai ‘oku hange ia ko e kau hu atu ‘o ma’u lotu he Meto, UCA Fkongo , Peulisi etc, kuo nau poaki mai ki he lisi he ‘etau tohi ngaue ko e SUTT mo hono Koni ‘I Tonga ka ‘oku nau kei memipa pe hetau sino hamai ‘o Kalaisi ko e oo ki langi hange ko e fkmaama ‘a Fakapulia.

Kaekehe ‘oku ki’I loloto atu e vakili ki he ‘isiu ‘a Wayne nai ‘o pehe ni -fefe ‘a e kau faifekau te nau fokotu’u ‘iakinautolu he kau mavahe he ngaahi fai’anga lotu ‘ikai piki ki ha Konifelenisi ‘I muli? kenau fai e paipitaiso ‘o e fanau ( ‘e lau e fanau ne papi koia ko e kau memipa nai he sino hamai ‘o kalaisi? Ka tali ‘io pea te tau toe foki ki he sikuea taha ta ko e huafa ‘o e Tolutaha’I ‘otua ‘a e mahu’inga ka ‘oku ‘ikai ko e appointment ‘o e tokotaha fai papi pea to e hoko atu e felekeu ta ‘oku malava pe ‘e ha taha ia ke fai papi? Kehe pe ko e Huafa e Tama ke fai ai? mahalo pea hei’ilo. Katau tali ‘ikai pea mahino ta ‘oku nau memipa he church as institution ‘o fakatatau ki he fa’unga pe koia ‘o e siasi koia ne fokotu’u he mavahe  kae fehu’ia e memipa he sino hamai ‘o Kalaisi ka ‘oku kei fihi pe moia he ko e filihi fakaetui foki ‘etau mata’ikoloa. Wayne ko e fehu’I foki ‘e fe’eke ko e mafai mei fe/ pe ‘o hai ke fakanofo/fokotu’u etc he taimi mavahe mei ha konifelenisi kakato regardless pe ko e koni SUTT/ Metotisi pe Uniting. Ngalingali ko ha sino Fakakonifelenisi pe te ne fai e fakamafai otherwise ko e kau mavahe ‘o tu’u’ataa mei ha Konifelenisi muli pe Tonga ko e kau lotu pe ka ‘oku ‘ikai fakatokanga’I fakaetohi taliui ngata pe he’enau kautaha mo kitautolu he TUI mahalo. ‘Oku kei fihi pe pea te’eki ma’ala’ala kae toki kumi atu ha sikola ke ne vete atu tokoua.

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[Sione]

Malo Koloti, " Teu lava 'eau 'o fa'u hanau himi pea lava 'e Ma'afu Palu 'o liliu hanau Tohitapu! Pea ke fa'u mai Fakapulia hanau Tokateline! Pea tenau fiefia ke fakatau atu hhh "


Mou 'ofa mai 'o fei mo 'ai , he 'oku ou tui au temou toe faingata'a'ia lahi he kaha'u..hhh

Mahalo 'oku sai ke tuku peaa ia! Na'a tuku e mavahe koee kamau mavahe matou ia hhh

Malo e talanoa 

On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 at 12:31 PM, Pauli Kienga <pauli....@gmail.com> wrote:

Koe anga pe eni ia 'oe fakakaukau.....(1) koe fokotu'u (2) moe 'uhinga......( Siasi )..kapau leva e fokotu'u ha siasi....pea moe 'uhinga 'oku 'ikai fenapasi moe tui faka Uesiliana ( SUTT)..pea fokotu'u atu Tapu pea 'oua tenau toe ngaue'aki 'ae ngaahi me'angaue moe 'elemeniti ngaue  'oe SUTT.....(1 a ) Kapau koe faifekau pe memipa SUTT 'oku ne fokotu'u..to'o hono Faifekau moe memipa......tui pe 'e vave ni pe hano fokotu'u atu ....taimi pe fakapapau'i 'ae halafononga 'oe SUTT/Uesi ki he kaha'u ...he luo lahilahi e mo'ua he fokoutua 'ihe femaleleaki......na'a tokoni atu ki he fakatotolo 'oku fai..............

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2017-08-01 10:12 GMT+13:00 Taniela Tuita <taniel...@gmail.com>:

Malo e fifili Wayne, ko e fehu’i mu’omu’a foki he ‘etau ngaahi fktaha’anga, kohai ‘oku tau ‘I heni pea fkongo mai ‘e he Sekelitali pe ko e Setuata etc “Sea ‘oku poaki mai ‘a me’a mo me’a…” ‘oku peheni nai ‘etau talanga he vakai mei he su koe SUTT ‘I Tonga ki he ngaahi fai’anga lotu fakaUesiliana ‘I muli Ko e kau poaki mai ‘oku hange ia ko e kau hu atu ‘o ma’u lotu he Meto, UCA Fkongo , Peulisi etc, kuo nau poaki mai ki he lisi he ‘etau tohi ngaue ko e SUTT mo hono Koni ‘I Tonga ka ‘oku nau kei memipa pe hetau sino hamai ‘o Kalaisi ko e oo ki langi hange ko e fkmaama ‘a Fakapulia.

Kaekehe ‘oku ki’I loloto atu e vakili ki he ‘isiu ‘a Wayne nai ‘o pehe ni -fefe ‘a e kau faifekau te nau fokotu’u ‘iakinautolu he kau mavahe he ngaahi fai’anga lotu ‘ikai piki ki ha Konifelenisi ‘I muli? kenau fai e paipitaiso ‘o e fanau ( ‘e lau e fanau ne papi koia ko e kau memipa nai he sino hamai ‘o kalaisi? Ka tali ‘io pea te tau toe foki ki he sikuea taha ta ko e huafa ‘o e Tolutaha’I ‘otua ‘a e mahu’inga ka ‘oku ‘ikai ko e appointment ‘o e tokotaha fai papi pea to e hoko atu e felekeu ta ‘oku malava pe ‘e ha taha ia ke fai papi? Kehe pe ko e Huafa e Tama ke fai ai? mahalo pea hei’ilo. Katau tali ‘ikai pea mahino ta ‘oku nau memipa he church as institution ‘o fakatatau ki he fa’unga pe koia ‘o e siasi koia ne fokotu’u he mavahe  kae fehu’ia e memipa he sino hamai ‘o Kalaisi ka ‘oku kei fihi pe moia he ko e filihi fakaetui foki ‘etau mata’ikoloa. Wayne ko e fehu’I foki ‘e fe’eke ko e mafai mei fe/ pe ‘o hai ke fakanofo/fokotu’u etc he taimi mavahe mei ha konifelenisi kakato regardless pe ko e koni SUTT/ Metotisi pe Uniting. Ngalingali ko ha sino Fakakonifelenisi pe te ne fai e fakamafai otherwise ko e kau mavahe ‘o tu’u’ataa mei ha Konifelenisi muli pe Tonga ko e kau lotu pe ka ‘oku ‘ikai fakatokanga’I fakaetohi taliui ngata pe he’enau kautaha mo kitautolu he TUI mahalo. ‘Oku kei fihi pe pea te’eki ma’ala’ala kae toki kumi atu ha sikola ke ne vete atu tokoua.

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[Sami Pakofe]

 Mhalo pe na'a a'u ha taimi kuo faitu'utu'uni ai e KOnifelenisi Tonga ke Ta'ofi engaahi me'a oku fai kiai e fiema'u tokoni, ka i muli ni, oku 'ikai pea heikai lava ke ta'ofi ia, ...... kihe 'eku kii ma'u vaivai ni, " tuku mai ho'o mou koloa kemau ngaue'aki, pea 'oua na'a mou tukuange kimautolu...

Koe  fehu'i oku fakatakamilo mai kiate au , oku pehee ni ?

Koe ha Koaa oku palopalema pehe ai pe 'ae Metotisi ----- kohono ngaahi hako 'eni Uesiliana, Uniting moe ha fua,,, koe ha oku ikai palopalema ai 'ae Katolika, tukuekhe pe 'ae mavahe 'ae Siasi Inlani ko'enau ta'e loto kihe vete mali........ koe ha oku ikai mapakipaki ai pe mavahe o toe fokotu'u siasi 'ae Mamonga, koe ha nai ?...........

Wayne kapau e tanaki e naahi momo'i fakakaukauni teke ma'u pe 'e KOe hono tali .........

 

koe " vaivai-e tauhi - fakalaumalie " ,,,,,,,, pea neu sio aipe au 'i Senee ni, ha'u e Faifekau o Kole Tokoni kihe Faifekau, ke tokoni ange he ko'ene vakai kihe 'ene kainga lotu, heikai pe kenau lalaka kimu'a fakalaumalie, fefee ke fakahuu mai kinautolu kiheUniting.( 'aia koe mapaki mai meihe siasi koee ).

Fanongo pea mahino'i 'ehe Rev Uniting  'ae Kole 'ae Rev koee, taimi ni,,,, Fakamanako, fakakoloa,Fakalangi,  fakamalumalie kuo nau lele 'i Matangi....

Tuku kenau matuku, ka oku nau fiematuku atu, he koe matuku pe 'ae kakai lotu, ,,, hhhhh pea ka nau fokotu'u ha kii Takanga, kohai elau hono fakakoloa,,,,kehe pe kema'u mai ha himi moha tohitapu meihe Sutt, kae lele 'i Matangi e Lotu oe hufia...

sami.

 

[Taniela Tuita]

Sami.."koe " vaivai-e tauhi - fakalaumalie " ,,,,,,,, pea neu sio aipe au 'i Senee ni,..."

'Atamai, 'ita aa koe 'o tuki tapuni 'etau usuusu he pepa 'a Wayne. 

[Sione]

'Oku 'uhinga nai ki ai e parable 'oe Tenga'i Musita??Pule'anga 'o Hevani! Church Tree - tupu pea va'ava'a pea holo pe misi kihe 'ovava!

Pea hange nai ko e vaine ka 'ikai fua pea tu'usi atu siasi ko ia na'a totolo mai ai 'a heli khe toenga 'oe ngaahi va'a ??

Malo e talanoa 

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[Sami Pakofe]

 hhhh Nela, 'ikai,, kataki 'ikai fai ha tuki tapuni, kei tanaki atu pe 'eni kihe fifili 'a wayne,, pe kohai au keu tuki tapuni e fifili 'a Wayne, tau kei kau pe he usuusu'i , kae 'a toki Wayne moe kau paipa hono fakahangatonu'i....

sami.

[Seer]

Neu kau au 'i he fifili lahi, pe ko e ha 'oku 'ikai fai ai 'e he Siasi mo e Konifelenisi, ha tu'utu'uni pau ki he fokotu'u Siasi 'i muli. 'I he'eku fakakaukau pukupuku mo fakangatangata, na'a ku pehee loto pee, 'oku taau ke tukuange/tuku ki tu'a/tuli/'esikomiunikato e fa'ahinga ko ia. Ka ko e fakakaukau pehee pe foki ko 'eku mamahi'i e lotofale na'a tau tupu ai. Ka 'i he'eku toutou lava atu ki Tonga mo e Konifelenisi, ne 'ata mai ai kiate au, 'oku 'ikai 'i ai ha mafai ia 'a e Siasi mo e Konifelenisi ke ne ta'ofi e fokotu'u Siasi 'i muli ni. Kae malo eni ia 'oku ki'i holo 'o mamalie mai 'i he kuonga ni, ka ko e ta'u 'e 15 kuohili ne hange ha lova e fokotu'u e ngaahi Siasi faka-Uesiliana 'i NZ ni mo AU. Ka kuo mahino mai eni ia, ko e 'uhinga 'oku 'ikai lava ai 'e he Siasi mo e Konifelenisi 'o ta'ofi e fokotu'u Siasi 'i muli, koe'uhi pe 'oku 'ikai ha'anau mafai ki ai. 'Oku 'ikai ha mafai 'a e Siasi mo e Konifelenisi ke ne ta'ofi e fokotu'u Siasi 'i muli; pea 'oku ou fakaongoongo eni ki ha mapuna 'i Tonga e fokotu'u Siasi fo'ou kuo hoko 'i muli ni. Fakamolemole pe Tonga, ka kuopau ke tau a'u kitautolu ki ha taimi mo ha kuonga kuo 'i ai e Siasi Uesiliana ia 'e taha. Malo ka tau ka a'u ki he senituli 2, 'oku kei taha pe 'a e Siasi hena.

'Oku 'ikai tokoni e lau membership from baptism, he ko e me'a ia 'oku faingofua ai ki he Uesiliana ke ne fokotu'u ha Siasi kehe mei he SUTT 'i Tonga. Ko e ha nai hono 'uhinga? He 'oku 'ikai te ne ongo'i 'e ia 'oku mole hano langilangi. 'E fokotu'u Siasi pe ia 'i muli, pea neongo 'oku fesiosiofaki e nofo ai; ka ko 'ene foki pee ki Tonga, 'e ma'u lotu mo malanga pee ia 'i he falelotu 'o e SUTT. 'Oku vaivai 'etau 'eke honau tu'unga malanga, pea vaivai hono 'eke 'enau tohi hiki mei he Faifekau; pea 'oku fai 'aki pee 'etau maheni mo e manatu ki he feohi he fuoloa, kae 'ikai 'eke e tohi mei he Faifekau. Taa ko ee kuo 'osi mavahe ia 'o fokotu'u/lotu Siasi kehe, kae kei vahe atu ai pe e malanga/faka'osita'u/uikelotu. Ka ko e lau ki he membership from baptism, te nau tu'u mai 'aki e mo'oni ko ia, ne papi kinautolu 'i he SUTT pea neongo ai pee 'oku nau 'i he funga vaka ko ee, ka ko 'enau foki atu pee ki Tonga, ko e kau SUTT ai pee. Ka mou mea'i, ko e momeniti 'enau foki mai ki NZ ni (mo muli), 'oku vete atu e SUTT 'i Tonga; kae tui honau teunga totonu 'i muli ni. Hange nai ha taha, ne 'a'ahi pee ki Tonga ke fakafonu (recharge) mei ai hono ivi, ke foki mai 'o fai pee e me'a 'oku ne loto ki ai. Kainga, ko e taha ia 'i he matavaivai. 'Oku tau faka'ataa pee e palopalema mo e faingata'a ke hoko, 'aki 'etau vaivai fakangaue. 'Oku 'ikai ke tau tauhi e tu'utu'uni ngaue ne toka 'ai mei mu'a 'e he kau taki, ke 'eke ma'u pee e tohi mei he faifekau pea mo fakapapau'i e Siasi ne lotu ai 'i muli.

kataki, kuo loloa e mafana kae hei'ilo'a TLangi mo Pakofe...

[Sione]

Kei monu'ia pe ko e te'eki fokotu'u ha Metotisi Tonga 'i Tonga ni!! Pea fakaongoongo pe ia ki papalangi!!  He'eku 'iai pe ng Uesiliana 'oku tu'u taha pe ia 'i muli ka 'oku fai pe feveitoka'i'aki SUTT!

He ka fokotu'u temou (kau metotisi) lava mai mei muli na ki ai ?? 

Malo e talanoa

On Tue, 1 Aug 2017 at 5:58 PM, Seer <mata...@gmail.com> wrote:

Neu kau au 'i he fifili lahi, pe ko e ha 'oku 'ikai fai ai 'e he Siasi mo e Konifelenisi, ha tu'utu'uni pau ki he fokotu'u Siasi 'i muli. 'I he'eku fakakaukau pukupuku mo fakangatangata, na'a ku pehee loto pee, 'oku taau ke tukuange/tuku ki tu'a/tuli/'esikomiunikato e fa'ahinga ko ia. Ka ko e fakakaukau pehee pe foki ko 'eku mamahi'i e lotofale na'a tau tupu ai. Ka 'i he'eku toutou lava atu ki Tonga mo e Konifelenisi, ne 'ata mai ai kiate au, 'oku 'ikai 'i ai ha mafai ia 'a e Siasi mo e Konifelenisi ke ne ta'ofi e fokotu'u Siasi 'i muli ni. Kae malo eni ia 'oku ki'i holo 'o mamalie mai 'i he kuonga ni, ka ko e ta'u 'e 15 kuohili ne hange ha lova e fokotu'u e ngaahi Siasi faka-Uesiliana 'i NZ ni mo AU. Ka kuo mahino mai eni ia, ko e 'uhinga 'oku 'ikai lava ai 'e he Siasi mo e Konifelenisi 'o ta'ofi e fokotu'u Siasi 'i muli, koe'uhi pe 'oku 'ikai ha'anau mafai ki ai. 'Oku 'ikai ha mafai 'a e Siasi mo e Konifelenisi ke ne ta'ofi e fokotu'u Siasi 'i muli; pea 'oku ou fakaongoongo eni ki ha mapuna 'i Tonga e fokotu'u Siasi fo'ou kuo hoko 'i muli ni. Fakamolemole pe Tonga, ka kuopau ke tau a'u kitautolu ki ha taimi mo ha kuonga kuo 'i ai e Siasi Uesiliana ia 'e taha. Malo ka tau ka a'u ki he senituli 2, 'oku kei taha pe 'a e Siasi hena.

'Oku 'ikai tokoni e lau membership from baptism, he ko e me'a ia 'oku faingofua ai ki he Uesiliana ke ne fokotu'u ha Siasi kehe mei he SUTT 'i Tonga. Ko e ha nai hono 'uhinga? He 'oku 'ikai te ne ongo'i 'e ia 'oku mole hano langilangi. 'E fokotu'u Siasi pe ia 'i muli, pea neongo 'oku fesiosiofaki e nofo ai; ka ko 'ene foki pee ki Tonga, 'e ma'u lotu mo malanga pee ia 'i he falelotu 'o e SUTT. 'Oku vaivai 'etau 'eke honau tu'unga malanga, pea vaivai hono 'eke 'enau tohi hiki mei he Faifekau; pea 'oku fai 'aki pee 'etau maheni mo e manatu ki he feohi he fuoloa, kae 'ikai 'eke e tohi mei he Faifekau. Taa ko ee kuo 'osi mavahe ia 'o fokotu'u/lotu Siasi kehe, kae kei vahe atu ai pe e malanga/faka'osita'u/uikelotu. Ka ko e lau ki he membership from baptism, te nau tu'u mai 'aki e mo'oni ko ia, ne papi kinautolu 'i he SUTT pea neongo ai pee 'oku nau 'i he funga vaka ko ee, ka ko 'enau foki atu pee ki Tonga, ko e kau SUTT ai pee. Ka mou mea'i, ko e momeniti 'enau foki mai ki NZ ni (mo muli), 'oku vete atu e SUTT 'i Tonga; kae tui honau teunga totonu 'i muli ni. Hange nai ha taha, ne 'a'ahi pee ki Tonga ke fakafonu (recharge) mei ai hono ivi, ke foki mai 'o fai pee e me'a 'oku ne loto ki ai. Kainga, ko e taha ia 'i he matavaivai. 'Oku tau faka'ataa pee e palopalema mo e faingata'a ke hoko, 'aki 'etau vaivai fakangaue. 'Oku 'ikai ke tau tauhi e tu'utu'uni ngaue ne toka 'ai mei mu'a 'e he kau taki, ke 'eke ma'u pee e tohi mei he faifekau pea mo fakapapau'i e Siasi ne lotu ai 'i muli.

kataki, kuo loloa e mafana kae hei'ilo'a TLangi mo Pakofe...

2017-08-01 15:38 GMT+13:00 Sami Pakofe <smpa...@gmail.com>:

 hhhh Nela, 'ikai,, kataki 'ikai fai ha tuki tapuni, kei tanaki atu pe 'eni kihe fifili 'a wayne,, pe kohai au keu tuki tapuni e fifili 'a Wayne, tau kei kau pe he usuusu'i , kae 'a toki Wayne moe kau paipa hono fakahangatonu'i....

sami.

On Tuesday, 1 August 2017 11:50:52 UTC+10, Taniela Tuita wrote:

Sami.."koe " vaivai-e tauhi - fakalaumalie " ,,,,,,,, pea neu sio aipe au 'i Senee ni,..."

'Atamai, 'ita aa koe 'o tuki tapuni 'etau usuusu he pepa 'a Wayne. 

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[Sami Pakofe]

 Malo mu'a etau ma'u 'ae efiafi ni pea oku te lue holo pe moe 'ofa atu Ki Tonga... 

Pea kuou manatu kihe 'ekulaulau hifo he fakamatala(pepa) oku pehe koe thesis 'ae Kuini Salote Tupou III, Kohono finangalo kihe kakai Tonga 'oe Senituli 20 ke nau Ofa mai 'oe "Tauhi hotau Talatukufakaholo ( oraltraditional) ke oua na'a mole.

Pea koe me'a ke fai kohono fakamanatu ( refresher) kihe to'utangta koee kihe to'utangata koee he ka ikai,pea 'e mole leva hotau 'ulungaanga Fakafonua, pea koe me'a leva e hoko 'e iai e To'u tangata tenau fiufeinga ke ma'u mai 'ae TalatukuFakaholo totonu.

Me'apango ka kuo mole, pea koe me'a pe 'e hoko kiai koe " kai-luu" e to'utangata koia , koe tufi momo holo pe he me'a kuo'osi laku, pea hange leva ia kuo kai-luu e to'u tangata koia..

Kau Tasilisili, 'e iku 'e kau atu moe kakai 'oe siasi he "kai-luu" ee, hhhhh ka lahilahi emavahe koe " faifailoto" pea 'e malava pe ia ke ui "Kuo-kai-luu" e kii kau sulu koee, hhhh.. mou 'ofa mai 'e faifai pea ui kimautolu 'i muli ni koe kau kai-luu, iha'a mou fakama'ito'a ke tukuange kimautolu pea to'o moho'o mou koloa meiatekimautolu 'i muli ni. 

Mou 'Ofa mai, si'ii tukupe he'i pekimautolu he koe kau " tekina" , ka koe kau "tekina Faklaumalie pe", hhhhhhhh

Kau Tangata kuou ' 'ofeina ho'o mou taukave pea moe me'a ketau tu'u ai, ka kemou manatu'i oku ikai Pule'i tatau 'a Tonga moe ngaahi Fonua muli, pea hange ko'eku lave kimu'a atu, oku malava kemau TAUHI mo MUIMUI ATU ki Tonga na,  ka koe "Fakalelei" ia ka fai meihe Konifelenisi moe ngaahi Siasi ko'eni oku nau mavahe.......ka ko'emau mavahevahe pe heni ( muli ni) ko'emau tu'uta i Tonga na,  pea oku mau Siasi Uesiliana kotoa pe. 

Koia, mou kii tukunoa'i pe kimautolu, he koe Taimi 'e Foki ki 'api, pea oku mau kei Siasi Uesilana kotoa pe..

Ka lahilahi ho'omou tokanga mai ki muli ni, pea temou Puke kimoutolu, mou paaki 'emoutolu ke lahi e himi moe tohitapu, o tufa mai pea ka 'ikai Fakatau mai, he 'emo'oni 'ae lau 'ae tangata'eiki heni, taimi nene kei tangata ai, koe konaa moe noa'ia, pea ngalo mo Tonga ia, ka kuo ne faka'ofi he 80's, kuo talatalanoa pe ia Ki Tonga moe 'Ofa ki Tonga.......'io e 'autoo pe manu ki tokuu, 'ihono taimi. hhhhhh

koe fakatalatalanoa at pe...

sami.

[Penisimani Mone]

Malo e talanoa...fakafeta'i aipe 'etau tu'uta ki he mahina fo'ou ni...mo e teuteu mo talitali 'etau kau fehikitaki...

Seer: 'Oku 'ikai tokoni e lau membership from baptism, he ko e me'a ia 'oku faingofua ai ki he Uesiliana ke ne fokotu'u ha Siasi kehe mei he SUTT 'i Tonga. Ko e ha nai hono 'uhinga? He 'oku 'ikai te ne ongo'i 'e ia 'oku mole hano langilangi. 'E fokotu'u Siasi pe ia 'i muli, pea neongo 'oku fesiosiofaki e nofo ai; ka ko 'ene foki pee ki Tonga, 'e ma'u lotu mo malanga pee ia 'i he falelotu 'o e SUTT.

i) Tau kei manatu'i pe, 'oku foaki 'e he Konisitutone 'o Tongaa 'a e tau'ataina ki he Tonga kotoa pe ke ne lotu 'i ha lotu 'oku ne loto ki ai. Ko e totonu ta'ealato'o ia 'a e Tonga kotoa pe...pea 'oku 'ataa pe ai ke toe fokotu'u 'e ha taha/kakai ha toe Uesiliana/Metotisi 'i Tonga ni 'o nau lotu ai, neongo ai 'etau mamahi'i ke 'oua mu'a...pea kuo 'osi kamata heni e Upper Room ia...pea nau Konifelenisi atu kinautolu ki NZ na...toe ke 'asi mai mo e SUTA US, SUTT NZ, SUTT Aust, etc.. WHY?...koe'uhi pe he 'oku tau'ataina e Tonga kotoa pe ki he'ene lotu...pea fakafeta'i kuo tapui fakalao ai ha toe fakatanga fakalotu 'i Tonga ni..

2) Tokua 'Oku 'ikai tokoni e lau membership from baptism? Kuo ki'i fuoloa mai nai 'etau ngaue'aki e policy membership through Tohi Kakai, ko ha me'afua faka-admini ia 'oku tokoni ki he centralization of power/authority 'o e imperial control, pea 'oku tokoni ia if the Church is merely a secular institution, pea 'oku ngali tui pehee ha tau tokolahi nai, pea 'e mahu'inga heni 'a e ownership of names, properties, lakanga, etc...etc...Na'a ko ia 'oku ne fakatupu 'a e ngaahi fakafefeka ni 'o iku mapakipaki ai 'etau samena ni...

3) Ko ia neu toe fokotu'u atu ai, back to basic, membership by baptism, ko e me'afua fakatohitapu/tokateline ia 'oku tokoni ki he fakama'opo'opo 'o e Church as a community of faith, the body of Christ, the called people of God, he ko e Siasii nai 'oku 'ikai ko ha social institution 'ata'ataa pe ka 'oku lahi hano ngaahi lelei 'oku invisible ia mo fakalaumalie, 'o tupu ai 'etau kei falelotutaha 'i Tonga ni, neongo ai ho'omou siasi kehekehe 'i muli na.

Tau mai aa kuo 'i ai ha'atau Counter-Reformation 'a e SUTT...'o tuku 'a e fakamamafa he'ene Tohi Kakai e kau ma'ulotu hono ngaahi Vahe Fonuaa pe, kae faofao atu hono ngaahi va'aa ke malu ai mo e kakai kotoa pe kuo ne papitaisoo...e.g. Ka kuo loto ha kau papitaiso 'i NZ ke nau kei SUTT pe 'o 'ikai FWCT in NZ, 'ai atu ia ko ha vahenga ngaue fo'ou mo nau kei nofo pe he SUTT he ne tau papitaiso kinautolu...ka kuo loto 'a Matafonua ke nau SUTT Aust, 'ai atu ia ko ha vahenga ngaue fo'ou, mo nau kei nofo pe he SUTT ne tau papitaiso ai...kae ki'i fakatatafe atu aa e Vahenga Ngaue tahaa he kuo fakapapau'i 'oku 'ikai ngaue lelei ia 'i muli na he taimi ni...pea kei mapule'i 'e ha ngaahi invisible faith 'a e real visible church... kehe ke kei mahino ki he kau papitaiso he SUTT 'i mamani, 'oku nau  kei memipa kakato he SUTT koe'uhi ko honau papitasioo, kae'oua they publicly recant their faith in that baptism...

ka ko e anga pe sio..

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fakapulia

[Seer]

'Oku 'ikai foki ko 'eku poini ia 'a'aku, 'a e fokotu'u siasi 'i muli pea ha'u 'o malanga/lotu 'i he SUTT 'i Tonga ni. Ko e poinii, 'a e 'ikai tauhi ke matauhi 'etau founga ngaue. 'Oku 'i ai e tu'utu'uni ngaue ki he hiki 'a taha malanga mei ha feitu'u 'e taha ki ha feitu'u 'e taha; ko 'ene 'alu mo 'ene tohi mei he Faifekau. 

'Oku ou tui au 'oku 'ataa e falelotu 'a e SUTT ki ha taha pee ke ne lotu ai, ka 'oku 'ikai 'ataa e falelotu ia ko ia ki ha taha pee ke ne malanga ai. Kuopau ke tau muimui 'i he potocol 'a e Siasi, ke fakapapau'i ko e tangata 'oku malanga mai, kuo fakamafai'i ia ke ne malanga 'i he SUTT pea 'oku ne kei ma'u foki hono lakanga malanga. He ko 'ene mavahe pee ha taha mei he SUTT 'o fokotu'u siasi fo'ou, ko 'ene fakahaa ia 'oku 'ikai ke ne kei tauhi 'e ia e tu'utu'uni ngaue 'a e SUTT; pea 'oku 'ikai kei nofo ia 'i he malumalu 'o e konisitutone 'a e SUTT. 'Oku 'ikai loto ia ke ne kei hoko ai pee ko e memipa 'o e SUTT, he kuo ne tu'utu'uni 'i hono loto ke fokotu'u siasi fo'ou pea hiki 'o tauhi e tu'utu'uni ngaue 'a e siasi ko ia.

Ka ko 'ene foki atu pee ki Tonga na, 'o talanoa malie; pea lau ai pee ia ko e tangata 'oku kei ma'u hono tu'unga malanga. 'O ma'u fefe? Kuo ne fakaha loto mai 'oku 'ikai fie memipa ia 'i he SUTT mo 'ene konisitutone. 'Oku vaivai hono tauhi e tu'utu'uni ngaue 'a e Siasi, 'e he kau Faifekau fakakolo; pea 'oku hoko e me'a ko ia, ke ne fakafaingofua'i ai e fokotu'u siasi fo'ou 'i muli.

Kae fefe leva 'etau kau Faifekau 'oku nau 'i muli, 'o fokotu'u siasi fo'ou ai, ka 'oku te'eki fakangofua mei he konifelenisi? Kapau 'oku ha'u pe e Faifekau ia mei Tonga na 'o fokotu'u hono SUTT 'i muli ni, pea toe matolu ange e faingata'aa kiate kimautolu 'i muli ni. He 'oku ha'u ia mo hono ivi mo e mafai (tokua) 'o fakaului kakai ki he siasi fo'ou. 'Oku totonu ke lau pee ia ko e angatu'u mo e fakatupu moveuveu; pea hilio ai 'enau fai pee 'e kinautolu 'enau fakanofo faifekau. Sai, ko e me'a tau'ataina pee ia 'a e tangata taki taha ke ne fokotu'u siasi mo fakanofo ha'ane kau faifekau. Ka ko e ha'u koee 'a e Faifekau 'a e SUTT 'i Tonga, 'oku ha'i ia 'e he ngaahi tu'utu'uni mo e konisitutone 'a e ngaue faka-Faifekau 'a e konifelenisi. Ko 'ene tali angi ki hono lakanga Faifekau, 'oku kau ai e mo'ui fakatamaio'eiki. Ko e fakatamaio'eiki ko e talangofua mo fakaongoongo, pea 'oku 'ikai fie'eiki.

[Tevita Langi]

Mälie lahi Seer

[sep...@optusnet.com.au]

Seer, " Ko e poinii, 'a e 'ikai tauhi ke matauhi 'etau founga ngaue."

Ko e pole lahi eni ia  'o e Siasi , tatau pe he Sutt mo kitautolu he ng Siasi 'i muli ni.

Mo'oni 'aupito , he ko e founga ngaue ne ohi 'o fakatatau ki he me'a 'oku tau tui ki ai.

'I he nonga 'ae 'Eiki.

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To:

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Cc:

Sent:

Wed, 2 Aug 2017 11:46:42 +1300

Subject:

Re: [tasilisili] mafai fokotu'u siasi

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fakapulia

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[Sami Pakofe]

Kuo malie etau potalanoa he "kuo mou'omai e faikehekehe " mou omai moe me'a oku mou tui oku totonu.

Kuou fiefia au ia ai" kae tuku mu'a keu'oatu e fifili ko'eni,

Kapau leva koe mapaki o fokotu'u fai'anga lotu fo'ou koe tupunga meihe " lack of Pastoral Care " ' pea mou tali ke oua toe ngaue'aki e koloa ae Sutt,'e fefee ae kainga, temou fkma'ito'a ke 'oua toe tali???????

Where is Jesus in this situation???

Are we going to leave them or you"ll accept their choice n needs...

[seni taniela]

Ko e sio pe eni mei tu'a!!!  

Taimi ke tau turn around e "palopalema" (fokotu'u SUTT a e kau SUTT) ko ena ko ha faingamalie ke tau kei Taha pee He Lotolotonga etau Movetevetee.  

Fele e ngaahi Siasi heni neongo oku nau mavahe mei Tonga but their church are still pure SUTT by heart, doctrine, and practice. Pea oku ikai tuku enau fietokoni ki he ngaahi feinga $$ mei Tongaa

Fokotu'u e motolo te ne lava o fakalelei  e palopalema ni pea lava e he Siasi i Tonga o kei fakataha'i pee a muli ni.

Ko e Motolo 'eni oku fokotu'u atu--Ko e SIasi Uesiliana o Tonga oku Konga Ua hono Sino i Mamani

1) Siasi Uesiliana Tau'ataina o Tonga (Kau Uesiliana Fakaongoongo ki Tonga)

2) Siasi Uesiliana Tau'ataina mei Tonga (Kau Uesiliana 'Ikai Fie Fakaongoongo ki Tonga)

Tokolahi e si'i kau faifekau i muli he ngaahi SIASI SUTT ikai fakaongoongo ki Tonga etc.  eg Rev Maama Fihaki etc they still love our leaders in Tonga neongo e ngali oku nau maumau'i ha ngaahi tu'utu'uni fakaKonisitutone i Tonga.  And they would love our presidents and leaders in Tonga to visit them etc.

Osi ai e motolo pehee i Amelika ni oku kau ki ai e Siasi oku ou ma'ulotu aii --ko e Free Evangelical Churches of America.  Teu toki lave atu ki hono fakaikiiki e motolo ko enii.

Faka'ataa pee Tohitapu mo e Himi he ko e koloa ia a Sihova pea oku 'ataa ia ki Mamani Katoa ke nau ngaue'aki.  Oku ikai ko ha koloa ia a e SUTT...neongo ko e SUTT ne nau paaki.  Manatu'u SUTT is part of universal church.

Toki hoko atu ki he Fakaikiiki e Motolo ko 'enii!!!!

Pea teu malanga he Siasi Uesilian Tau'ataina 'o (not mei) Tonga he Sapate ko enii.

[Sami Pakofe]

Malo Seni,,,,,,,,,,,

sami ..

[Taniela Tuita]

Seni

Malo 'etau lava pea mo e lavelave mai mei he fonua hau na. 

Ko e tohitapu mo e himi kuo 'osi fakatokanga'i pe ongo mata'i koloa ia koia he ngaahi fakataha'anga 'a e siasi heni pea 'oku tali fiemalie peia ko e koloa ia 'atautolu Tonga ko e koloa fakalaumalie pea he'ikai nono'o ia ke 'ai ha tapu mo ha fkngatangata ki hono lau mo ngaue'aki 'e hotau kakai ma'upe 'i ha feitu'u pe. Ka ko e 'isiu ia ki ai ke toki hoko atu ai e fekumi fkako ia 'a Wayne ko e fktekinolosia'i koeni 'o create 'e ha taha ia ha'ane APP 'o 'ikai 'ilo ki ai e publisher mo e copyright application kae tanaki tenali ai e motu'a APP creator koia ke download - mahalo 'oku 'ikai ko ha 'isiu fklaumalie ia ka ko e 'isiu fakatupu koloa ia ke toki talanoa'i pe kohai leva 'oku ma'u ai si'ene koini kae kei omi pe kakai tonga heni 'o fakatau atu mei Bookshop 'enau tohitapu mo e Himi he founga ne fkmafai'i hono paaki ke fktau atu. Kaemahalo kuo 'osi tomui hono fkhoko ha ngaue ia ki ai he kuo 'osi tukuatu ia he ngaluope 'a e APP ki he 'etau tohitapu/himi pea ma'u totongi pe ta'etotongi aipe hotau kakai 'i he tapa e kolope.

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[Seer]

'Oku 'ikai teu tui ko ha palopalema 'a e ngaue 'aki 'e he kakai, e naunau 'a e Siasi Uesiliana Tau'ataina 'o Tonga. 'Oku ou fiefia mo fakamalo ai kiate kinautolu ne nau fa'u 'etau naunau, he 'oku mahino 'ene manakoa ko e lelei mo molumalu e contents 'o e naunau 'a e Siasi. Tau fiefia ai, he ko e faka'ilonga ia 'a e 'aonga 'o e ngaue mateaki ne fai 'e matu'a; pea kuo tau 'ilo foki mo hono ngaahi lelei 'i hotau kuonga ni.

Kau ka 'ilo 'oku ngaue 'aki 'e he Mamonga, Penitekosi, City Impact etc 'etau ouau 'oku hiki 'i he Tohi Himi; talaatu 'eku fiefia, he ko e ngaahi lea mo e kanotohi ia ne to'o mei he Tohitapu, 'o 'ikai ko ha toe tohi kehe. Pea ko e fee pe e feitu'u 'oku ongona ai e ngaahi lea ko ia, 'oku 'i ai 'a e tui 'e tupu mo fua, he ko e Folofola Mo'ui.

Neongo ko e Siasi kehe, ka 'oku ongona 'i honau lotofale e le'o mo e ngaue ne fa'u 'e he SUTT.

Ko e talanoa kehe 'a e hiki-tatau ia. Ko hono hiki tatau e naunau 'a e Siasi, ko e me'a kehe ia mei hono ngaue 'aki e naunau 'a e Siasi. 'Oku 'i he Siasi (SUTT - Tonga) e mafai ki hono fakangofua e naunau 'a e Siasi, ke hiki-tatau 'e ha taha. Kapau ko e me'a eni 'oku 'uhinga ki ai 'a wayne, pea ko e tali ki ai; 'oku 'i he konifelenisi mo 'ene ngaahi komiti e mafai ke fakangofua ha taha (pe kautaha) ke ne hiki-tatau ha tohi ko e naunau 'a e Siasi. Kau ai e App mo e pdf ko ena 'oku circulate 'i he ope. 'Oku tuai e ngaue 'a e Siasi ia ki he ngaahi isiu ko eni, ka 'oku tau nofo pe mo e 'amanaki lelei ki ha'anau ngaue ki ai.

poupou atu pe mei he vaha mama'o...

[Kulimoe'anga]

Wayne afe atu ki Fofo'anga Tahikolukalu he Sapate he taimi 1 ho'atā.. Faifekau Pule Pitasoni ena ai ko hono fokotu'u homau va'a 'e taha hena pea fakanofo moe ongo faifekau 'e 2. Mahalo 'e lava aipe ho Thesis 'au mei ha fakamatala 'a e Kolisi mu'aa.. pea to'oto'o atu ha ki'i fakamalu na'a mahua mai ha loli tuki 'ia koe iooop

[seni taniela]

Poupou atu Seer

Mahu'inga ke fei mo fakapaaki e fo'i hangatamaki ko ena oku mo'ua ai hotau Siasii ko e 'ita pee ha faifekau pe ko ha memipa ha faifekau pea mavahe o fokotu'u 'ene SUTT.

Founga eni e tolu te tau ala fai:

Founga Uluaki

Ko e mavahe pee ha faifekau ne fokotu'u 'e he Konifelenisi SUTT tupu mei ha 'ita pe talangata'a ki hono kau pule pe Konifelenisi, pea to'o ai pee mo hono tu'unga faifekau, tu'unga malanga he Siasi i Tonga na pea pehee ki muli ni.  

Ka foki atu,  pea kataki pee o memipa fanongo pea ka oku fie foki o malanga hoko pe faifekau i he SUTT i Tonga fou pee he process angamaheni....tali ki he fakataha fakakolo, kuata, etc...konifelenisi...Fakamahino kuo nau fakatomala.

Mahu'inga ke ongo'i e he kau faifekau pule o e SUTT i muli oku empower kinautolu 'e he Konifelenisi Tonga he ko kinautolu oku nau fakafofonga'i e Konifelenisi i muli nii.

Kapau oku tau to'o e tu'unga malanga e kau hinga ha fefine, pea mo e kau kai pa'anga e Siasii, oku totonu ke to'o mo e lakanga o e kau talangata'a ki hoto taki pe ki he Konifelenisi a e Siasii he ko e laumalie o e afungi oku tolotui mai he palopalema ko eni.

[seni taniela]

Founga Hono Ua

Mahu'inga ke oange 'e he SUTT ha Seniti ki he kau Faifekau Pule eg Siotame Havea ke fai ha ngaue fakalao ki hono malu'i e hingoa(brand name) pea mo e fakailonga(logo) e SUTT mei hono ngaue tavale'aki 'e he kau fiemavahe.  Oku ai e ofisi he fonuani ko  e Patent mo e Trademark office e lava e SUTT Amelika 'o apply ke malu'i e koloa ko eni a e Siasi mo hono ngaue'aki 'e ha taha kae tautautefito ki he kau talangata'a ki he Konifelenisi.  Aia te tau ala request o tala ko e fo'ilea Siasi Uesiliana Tau'ataina o Tonga ko e koloa (trademark) ia a e SUTT fakataha mo e logo SUTT pea oku ikai ke tau tali ke ngaue'aki e ha fai'anga lotu ta'ema'u ha ngofua.

Founga Hono Tolu

Tonu ke ai e Ministry he Loto'i Siasi fokotu'u mei Tonga pea ai ha ha kau faifekau tokotolu assign ke nau nofo pee mei Tonga o tokanga'i mai a Amelika, NZ, Aust ke nau specialize pee he tafa'aki ko iaa...ui ia ko e Ministry of Prayer & Reconciliation.  Ko e me'a pee a e Ministry ko eni ko e tokoni ke fakalelei'i e ngaahi fai'anga lotuu kae tautautefito i muli ni.  Ka ai ha moveuveu he loto Siasii oku ongo'i e he faifekau oku ikai ke ne lava o settle pea fetu'utaki ki Tonga pea ko e me'a leva ia e timi ko eni ko enau puna mai ki muli o feinga'i ke fakalelei'i e ngaahi too kehekehe etc.  'Osi ai e me'a pehee i he fonua ni.

[seni taniela]

Founga Hono Faa--Founga eni oku ou pehee ke tau 'alu mo ia

Tau fakaofiofi he Evangelical Free Church of America.

Hoko e Konifelenisii i Tonga ko sino pee ke ne fokotu'u e kau faifekau pea tukuatu pee ki he kau faifekau ko iaa ke nau takitaha fakalele e local church ikai ha kau mai e Konifelenisi Tongaa.  Fai pee he laumalie lelei.

Ko 'etau taha mo nautolu ko e taha i he tuii(convictions) ka oku ikai ke tau taha he founga fakalelee.  Let the SUTT fly...no more control from Tonga SUTT as an organization etc.

Kapau leva oku hoko ha issue he ngaahi Siasi i muli pea pehee 'e ha faifekau ia e mavahe ia 'o fokotu'u Siasi, pea tau homoki lotomamahi mo fiefia atu e tautolu.  Hangee ko e lau a Paula neongo pee ko e laumalie hala e mavahee kehe pee ke nau malanga'i atu a Kalaisi!!!mahalo pee e toki tonu e laumalie a mui.

Pea faka'ataa pe ia ke ne ngaue'aki hotau hingoa pe ko hano hingoa ka oku nau kei kau pee he fanau e SUTT.

Toki to'o pee honau tu'unga malangaa ka kuo nau fai ha hia oku totonu ke to'o ai honau tu'unga malanga i muli mo Tonga.

Founga ko enii te tau lava o fakalotolahi'i e SUTT kotoa he kolopee ke nau kei hoko atu pee SUTT neongo oku ikai ke nau kei i he malumalu o Tongaa, ka oku nau kei ma'u pee 'a e tefito'i tui mei Tongaa...We are united by our SUTT convictions.

God uses imperfect people and broken pastors.  Pea taimi Konifelenisii pea mou ui mai ki si'i kau faifekau ko enii ke nau oo atu o memipa fanongo pee mo lotu ki he Siasii.

Ai e faifekau heni ko Rev Maama Fihaki ko e Uesiliana mo'oni he loto, tui, mo e to'onga mo'ui neongo kuo si'i to'o hono lakanga faifekauu...'Oku lele lelei pee kainga lotu oku ne tokanga'i neongo oku ikai kau ki Tonga pe ko muli.

Faka'amuange mai 'e hanga 'e he Siasii o fakaava ha matapaa ki he si'i ni'ihi pehee ni ne ikai ke nau maumau'i ha tui fakatohitapu pe essentials e Siasii ka ko e non-essential issue mahalo ko e ikai ke fetu'utaki atu ki Tonga na etc.

Ai e lau oku iloa he Evangelical Free Church of America...In Essentials, Unity.  In Non-Essentials-Charity.  In All Things Jesus Christ.

Fele movesevese he ngaahi SUTT he non-essentials, pea oku tonu ke foaki kelesi mai pee Konifelenisi he oku tau kei Taha pee he Essentials a e Tui SUTT.

Siasi Uesiliana Tau'ataina mei Tonga mo e Siasi Uesiliana Tau'ataina o Tonga

[Penisimani Mone]

Malo Seni...

Founga Uluaki

Ko e mavahe pee ha faifekau ne fokotu'u 'e he Konifelenisi SUTT tupu mei ha 'ita pe talangata'a ki hono kau pule pe Konifelenisi, pea to'o ai pee mo hono tu'unga faifekau, tu'unga malanga he Siasi i Tonga na pea pehee ki muli ni.  

----

i) Mahalo 'oku kei pule pe ngaahi fakataha'anga 'a e siasii as an institution ki he'ene ngaahi lakangaa, ka ko e fefu'ii,... pe 'oku fakaaoao pehee aipe SUTT ki he membership 'o hono kau memipa ne ne fakahuu ki he siasii 'aki e papitaiso 'a Sisuu?...'oku mou mea'i 'oku 'i ai e mafai tukukitu'a (excommunicate) pehe ni ia 'o e ngaahi siasi Kalisitiane lahi...ka 'oku ai ha mafai pehe ni 'i 'o e SUTT 'i he'ene tokatelinee?...NOOOO!...and if there is...where?...he 'oku lahi e talanoa/assumptions ki he lakangaa (e.g malanga, faifekau, etc...) ka 'oku si'i ha talanoa ki he membership by baptism until public recant...

Ko e assumption/fokotu'u ko eni ....Ko e mavahe pee ha faifekau ne fokotu'u 'e he Konifelenisi SUTT tupu mei ha 'ita pe talangata'a ki hono kau pule pe Konifelenisi, pea to'o ai pee mo hono tu'unga faifekau, tu'unga malanga he Siasi i Tonga na pea pehee ki muli ni. ...'oku kau ai honau membership mei he papitaiso kimu'a he SUTT?...ne tau alea fakalelei mo kinautolu pe 'oku nau recant ai 'enau faith ne fai'aki honau papitaisoo kae toki to'o honau membership?...pe ko ha founga tafa ta'efakaongonoa institutional eni 'o e central control ...

He kapau 'e fai ha talanoa fakalelei mo e kau Faifekau toe fokotu'u siasi fo'ouu, pea mahino 'oku 'ikai ha'anau faka'ikai'i 'e taha 'enau/tau he papitaisoo 'a Sisu...tala atu, 'oku nau kei memipa kakato pe kinautolu he SUTT whereever /whatever church they go...he 'oku fakalevelevataha pe 'a e papitaiso 'a Sisu mo e Folofolaa he membership 'i ha toe Tohi Kakai...pe ha toe fakataha fakasiasi 'a e SUTT...pea totonu ke kei sio lelei 'a e SUTT ki he fa'ahinga ko enii ko hono kau memipa kakato pe, pea kei fakaai kiate kinautolu 'ene ngaahi tala'ofa ne ne fai 'i he papitaisoo...ke akonekina 'i he ngaahi tokateline mo e to'onga 'o e Lotu Fakakalisitianee...

Kuo fu'u lahi mai 'a e 'ikai te tau alea fakalelei mo ha kau mavahe mei he SUTT talu mei mu'a kau ki honau membership by baptism...koe'uhi ko 'etau fu'u fakamamafa'i 'a e institutional control kae si'i 'aupito ha'atau fakamamafa ki ha unity in diversity of church as people of God...'osi ia ha'atau umoumataha he fua fatongia...pea tau fepekikia'i aipe 'oku te'eki pe ke tau alea ki hotau membership by faith through baptism...ne 'ikai te tau lava ki he me'afaka'eiki 'o Sepesi Uatekini ka ko e Faifekau Metotisi mo ia, pe ki he me'afaka'eiki 'o Rev Senituli Koloi, ka ko e faifekau SUTT mo ia, pe ko Rev Sione Pinomi, ka ko e faifekau SUTT mo ia, etc...pea 'e kei hokohoko atu?... he tokua 'oku automatic excommunicate pe 'e kinautolu 'a kinautolu 'o mole ai honau membership?.... 'i ha'anau toe fokotu'u fai'angalotu?.... kae te'eki te nau public recant their faith in SUTT baptism?...

'Ai'ai lelei pe kau siana, na'a tau mamahi'i ange 'e tautolu e companyy kae tuku e OWNER mo 'ene FOLOFOLAA...

ka ko e anga pe foki e sio...

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fakapulia

[Sami Pakofe]

"Ai e kananga koee ae kau kk " ai ke ifo'etau feohi" hhhh

Malie lahi ia Fakapulia, koe uhi oku te"eki keu fanogo au kuo ngaue'aki ehe Siasi Uesiliana e fo'i me"a ko'eni koe "tu'usi" pe koe motuhi pe tuli koe fkhifo pe kae toe Fakalanga'fo'ou, mahalo pe na'a kuo ongo leleiange e "tu"usi", hoiiii "tuku pe i loto ke fktakamilo ai,, kae fai hano tanumaki,,,,hhhj

Malo mu"a e potalanoa...

[Seer]

'Oku 'ikai ha me'a pehee ia, tukukehe kapau kuo hoko ke 'esikomiunikato ha memipa ia 'i he SUTT. Ka ko e to'o pee honau lakanga faifekau, malanga etc. Pea ko e to'o ko ia, 'oku hoko pee e taha ko ia ko e memipa fanongo (?) kapau 'oku kei ma'u pee e lakanga lotufehu'i. Ko ia 'oku kei ava ai pee e matapaa ia 'o e SUTT ke ha'u pee ia ki he lotu, ka ko e malanga, faifekau, taki 'aho etc 'e to'o ia 'o fakatatau ki he tu'utu'uni faka-fakataha.

Ko e fu'u me'a mahino pee eni ia, 'ikai totonu ke toe filinga-ua ai ha taha ia.

Ha'u pee ia 'o fanongo malanga mo lotu, pea ka lava ai ha tupu mo ha fua pea fakafeta'i.

[seni taniela]

From: Penisimani Mone <peni...@gmail.com>

----

i) Mahalo 'oku kei pule pe ngaahi fakataha'anga 'a e siasii as an institution ki he'ene ngaahi lakangaa, ka ko e fefu'ii,... pe 'oku fakaaoao pehee aipe SUTT ki he membership 'o hono kau memipa ne ne fakahuu ki he siasii 'aki e papitaiso 'a Sisuu?...'oku mou mea'i 'oku 'i ai e mafai tukukitu'a (excommunicate) pehe ni ia 'o e ngaahi siasi Kalisitiane lahi...ka 'oku ai ha mafai pehe ni 'i 'o e SUTT 'i he'ene tokatelinee?...NOOOO!...and if there is...where?...he 'oku lahi e talanoa/assumptions ki he lakangaa (e.g malanga, faifekau, etc...) ka 'oku si'i ha talanoa ki he membership by baptism until public recant...

Ko e assumption/fokotu'u ko eni ....Ko e mavahe pee ha faifekau ne fokotu'u 'e he Konifelenisi SUTT tupu mei ha 'ita pe talangata'a ki hono kau pule pe Konifelenisi, pea to'o ai pee mo hono tu'unga faifekau, tu'unga malanga he Siasi i Tonga na pea pehee ki muli ni. ...'oku kau ai honau membership mei he papitaiso kimu'a he SUTT?...ne tau alea fakalelei mo kinautolu pe 'oku nau recant ai 'enau faith ne fai'aki honau papitaisoo kae toki to'o honau membership?...pe ko ha founga tafa ta'efakaongonoa institutional eni 'o e central control ...

========================================

Malo Fakapulia

Ko e sio pee eni mei tu'a.

Ko e haa kuo to'o ai e lakanga faifekau pe lakanga malanga ha kau faifekau ne nau kai $$ pe fe'auaki? 

Oku nau kei SUTT pee ka oku ikai to'o enau membership ka ko e lakanga taki ki he kakai e 'Eikii ko ia oku fai hono discipline ai kinautolu.

Sai, kapau leva kuo faka'ita ha faifekau o tafoki mei he tu'utu'uni a e Konifelenisi pee ko e kau taki eg Faifekau Pule pe Palesiteni a e Siasi, ko e haa leva e discipline e fai ki aii?  Tukukehe na'a oku tau lau pee e kitautolu ko e me'a lelei

Uhinga ia eku pehee ko e 'afungii ko e angahala ia te ne keina e Siasii he oku faingata'a 'ene 'asi ki tu'a.  

Tukukehe kapau oku Mr Nice Guy etau Siasii ka ko eku vakai ki he ngaahi SIasi Faka-kalisitiane lahi oku ikai te nau to'o ma'ama'a e angatu'u ki honau kau taki fakalaumalie.

He ko e me'a oku fakaoli he ngaahi mavahe lahi oku ikai ke nau oo reach out ki he non SUTT...ko e kaiha'a sipi pee mei he SUTT ki he SUTT ki h SUTT....

Uhinga ia eku pehee oua e fakataataa he mavahevahe he histoliaa kau ai mo  mavahe a e Maama Fo'ou he ko e mavahe ia makatu'unga he fetookehekehe'aki fakatokatelina...tui e niihi koee kuo hee mother church mei he Folofola etc.  Ko e movesevese a e SUTT ko e kee pee he organise e Siasii mo e mafai pea nau mavahe o fai pee me'a tatau.

Uhinga e fokotu'u option founga fika 4 na'a oku tonu ke fakaava e he Siasi ha matapaa ki ha kau fiemavahe.

[Henry Niumeitolu]

kau atu he talanga,Ko e ki’I tatau ki he api neu nofo lata ai, na’a ‘aonga ki he fehu’I mahu’inga ‘oku talanga’i. Koe ha ‘oku ta’epoto fuoloa ai ‘a e tohi kakai ‘a e Siasi ‘o holoa hono kau memipa? hili koia, ko Sisu ‘a hono ‘ulu, ke tau vakavakai kia Saame 139: 23, 24, na’a ‘oku ‘I ai ha hala ‘omi mala. Pea ke tau fetukutuku a kia Sisu koe Poto’anga ia?kae fakautuutu e tupu pea fua.

Nofo a Toutaiola, nofo a
Kae hoko atu e fononga
Ki he Toumui ‘o e ngaahi ‘alo’ofa
Malo ho’o ‘ofa he mata ‘o e paea
Malo e fuataki e ngaahi fatongia
Na’a ke hoko koe kalofiama
Ki he tuliki ‘o Sisu he Hala Taufa
Kuo ke hoko koe manatu melie
Ki he ‘ofa fakatokoua
Nofo a toutaiola nofo a

‘e fai pe mu’a si’aku fifili
Ki he ngaahi fehu’I faka’itaniti
Ka mama leva e vaka
Koeha hono faito’o ke pulusila
Pea ka kafo leva e kau toutai
Pea e fakalelei fefe ‘a e ‘atamai.

‘isa koe ngaahi kulukia fakalaumalie
Tuku pe kia Loma 8: 26-39 kene faito’o
Pea ka kulukia faka’atamai pea tukupe kia loma 12 1-4
Ke ne fakafo’ou pea sivi ‘o li’aki ‘a e alunga kovi
Kae fa’ofua ‘ia Lelei taha, koe ‘amanaki
‘isa he ko Poto taha ‘oku tau takaua

Ko faka’ilo poto hono huafa ma’olunga
‘e ‘ikai li’aki ‘e Ia ‘a hono ‘ofa’anga
‘a hono Siasi , ko hono fofonga tama’imata
‘e ikai tene tuku ke tau tatala’a he koe kaivai mateaki li’oa
Koe kolosi fakalava,koe hutu'a e fakatautehina
he kuo ne totongi ‘osi hota ngaahi mo’ua
‘oku iate ia ‘a e mafeia, ko hono tavi koe fakakoloa tapuaki pea fakamonu’ia
E faito’o lavea 'a Toutaiola, te ne kitaki ke a'u he ko ‘ene kaveinga ‘a e mo’ui ta’engata.
Poto a , poto a, poto a ‘ala si’oku ‘ofa’anga.
Fekita aa si'i lupe ko e siasi pea moe ‘alo kae haohaoa si’o fononga.
ki Toumui with Love, sila

'elaona

--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 5/8/17, 'seni taniela' via Tasilisili-he-ngaluope <tasil...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [tasilisili] mafai fokotu'u siasi

To: "tasil...@googlegroups.com" <tasil...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Saturday, 5 August, 2017, 16:35

From: Penisimani Mone
<peni...@gmail.com>



----i) Mahalo 'oku kei pule pe

--

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Ko e tu'asila ke 'ave ki ai ha'o tasilisili ko e
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Ke to'o ho tu'asila mei he memipa he Tasilisili,

email ki he tasilisili-...@googlegroups.com

Ko e website 'a e Tasilisili ko e http://groups.google.com/group/tasilisili



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[Penisimani Mone]

Malo 'Elaona e tau mo e fehikitaki mei "Toutaiola" ki "Toumui"...mahalo pe 'e fai atu 'e 'Asinate e fehu'i tatau kia koe mo Taliai 'oku fa'a fai 'e he fanau 'a si'i kau Faifekau pe Setuata he fehikitaki kotoa pe ...Te tau foki afee ki hotau 'apii?...ka mahalo 'e toe fakalata ange ha'amou toe vakai fo'ou mai ki loto'api mo Saione mei Toumui na...tau fiefia foki he toe fe'iloaki mo Paula Latu...

Malo Seni:

Ko e haa kuo to'o ai e lakanga faifekau pe lakanga malanga ha kau faifekau ne nau kai $$ pe fe'auaki? 

'O hangee pe ko 'eku lave atu ki mu'aa...'oku tau'ataina pe 'a e ngaahi fakataha'anga 'a e SUTT ke faitu'utu'uni 'i he fakapotopoto mo totonu ki he'ene ngaahi lakangaa...

Oku nau kei SUTT pee ka oku ikai to'o enau membership... 

Ko e lau mo'oni eni, 'okapau te nau kei nofo aipe 'i he SUTT ne nau papitaiso ai, pe ko hano Vahe Fonua 'i muli na, 'o kei Tohi Kakai ai......ka ko e lakanga taki ki he kakai e 'Eikii ko ia oku fai hono discipline ai kinautolu...pea ka nau ka hiki ki ha siasi haamai SUTT kehe, pea tau 'oange 'enau tohi hiki, kae kei memipa aipe he SUTT koe'uhi ko honau papitaisoo, ka 'okapau 'oku nau hiki ki ha lotu kehe, mo faka'ikai'i 'enau tui ne fai'aki honau papitaisoo, pea 'oku fakahaa ia he ngaahi fakataha'anga 'a e siasii mo toki to'o ai 'enau membership..

Ko e new definition e membership ne fokotu'u mai ki he Konifelenisii...Ko kinautolu kotoa pe 'oku hiki honau hingoaa 'i he Tohi Kakai 'a e Siasii, ko kinautolu [pe] ia 'oku memipa 'i he SUTT...'a ia ko e membership by census eni, 'o fepaki mo e tukufakaholo membership by faith through baptism, pea ka tali e new definition, 'oku to'o ta'efakaongonoa aipe e membership 'o 'etau kau tui 'oku nau  lotu 'i ha siasi SUTT haamai kehe 'i Tonga ni pe 'i muli na foki, koe'uhi pe ko e 'ikai te nau kau 'i ha Tohi Kakai 'a e SUTT mo hono ngaahi Vahe Fonuaa...'oku tatau tofu pe ia mo ha lau kuo nau faka'ikai'i e tui ne fai'aki honau papitaisoo, pea kuo nau hiki ki ha lotu kehe...mani eeee!!!...Fakafeta'i ne toe toloi e fokotu'u ni ke tau toe laulau ki ai he kaha'u na...

Ai e faifekau heni ko Rev Maama Fihaki ko e Uesiliana mo'oni he loto, tui, mo e to'onga mo'ui neongo kuo si'i to'o hono lakanga faifekauu...'Oku lele lelei pee kainga lotu oku ne tokanga'i neongo oku ikai kau ki Tonga pe ko muli.

Malo Seni, pea ko e me'a ia mahalo 'oku tau laulea ai henii...'oku kei memipa si'i Faifekau na mo hono kainga lotuu he SUTT pe 'ikai?...i) he ka fai'aki e Tohi Kakaii, pea ko e talii leva...'IKAI...he 'oku 'ikai ke nau kau 'i he Tohi Kakai...'o 'ikai ai ke ne kei tokanga ki ai?...Ne alea e SUTT mo e fu'u kakai na fekau'aki mo e tui 'i honau papitaisoo?...Ne nau publicly recant 'enau faith pe te'eki ai?...etc... ii) pea ka fai'aki 'a e tui mei honau papitaisoo, ko e talii ia....'IOOOO...'oku nau kei memipa pe kinautolu he SUTT pea ke kei vakai 'a e SUTT ko hono kau memipa kinautolu mo ne tokanga'i he na'a ne tala'ofa ki ai 'i honau papitaiso... Ko e ha hano kovi fau, kapau ne ui he Fehikitakii...SUTT Salt Lake 13...Rev Maama Fihaki, mo ne tauhi aipe si'i kau memipa papitaiso 'i he 13?...etc... pe ko e 'ai ke tau fu'u exclusive pehe nii he ko ha fili tau kilikiti?....mahalo 'oku fa'a hela'ia 'a Sisu he ui mai 'ene kakai he papitaiso ka tau fa'a oo atu tautolu 'o fili tau 'akapulu ai 'aki e Tohi Kakai?...What is Church?

Sai, kapau leva kuo faka'ita ha faifekau o tafoki mei he tu'utu'uni a e Konifelenisi pee ko e kau taki eg Faifekau Pule pe Palesiteni a e Siasi, ...,ko e haa leva e discipline e fai ki aii?  Tukukehe na'a oku tau lau pee e kitautolu ko e me'a lelei

Ko e value judgment nai eni, pea 'oku faingofua ha discipline he "hinga 'ilo'ii"  mei he "hinga te'eki 'ilo'ii"..kae fa'a faingata'a hano fakamaau'i lelei 'e ha Konifelenisi pe kau taki ko fee 'a e "faka'itaa", mei he "faitotonuu",... "fie'eiki" mei he "konisenisii"..."siasi haa maii" mei he "Siasi 'o Kalaisii"...."deformation" mei he "reformation"...."essentials" mei he "non-essentiaals"..etc...'e hangee leva 'oku fepakipaki 'a e fokotu'u ko enii mei he faka'anaua 'o e Fokotu'u Fika 4....Faka'amuange mai 'e hanga 'e he Siasii o fakaava ha matapaa ki he si'i ni'ihi pehee ni ne ikai ke nau maumau'i ha tui fakatohitapu pe essentials e Siasii ka ko e non-essential issue mahalo ko e ikai ke fetu'utaki atu ki Tonga na etc.

Ko ia, mahalo 'oku fakapotopoto ange ke 'oua 'e manako ala leva e siasii ma'upee ki he'ene taufale ko e discipline ha'ane lakanga he ngaahi issue te'eki mahinoo, pea mo fa'a mahamahalo pe ne 'i ai ha'ane ngaahi discipline mahalo ne hala, pea ka ne fehalaaki ha'ane discipline kimu'a, pea ne kei malava pe ke ne kei kole fakamolemole ai, mo toe fakatonutonu, he ko e siasi kei angahala pe mo fa'a toonounou, 'oku ne toki holy he kelesi 'oku fai ki ai 'e Kalaisi, kae 'ikai holy 'iate ia pe pe ma'ana pe...mani eee!!

ka ko e anga pe eni ia e sio...

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fakapulia

[Penisimani Mone]

Seer:

Ka ko e to'o pee honau lakanga faifekau, malanga etc. Pea ko e to'o ko ia, 'oku hoko pee e taha ko ia ko e memipa fanongo (?) kapau 'oku kei ma'u pee e lakanga lotufehu'i. Ko ia 'oku kei ava ai pee e matapaa ia 'o e SUTT ke ha'u pee ia ki he lotu, ka ko e malanga, faifekau, taki 'aho etc 'e to'o ia 'o fakatatau ki he tu'utu'uni faka-fakataha.

Ko e fu'u me'a mahino pee eni ia, 'ikai totonu ke toe filinga-ua ai ha taha ia.

Ha'u pee ia 'o fanongo malanga mo lotu, pea ka lava ai ha tupu mo ha fua pea fakafeta'i.

-----

Mahalo ko e talanoa pe eni he church as merely a legal social institution?...membership by Tohi Kakai/Lakanga?...pea 'oku si'i ai ha'ane lave ki he full membership by baptism?

Mahalo ko e fu'u me'a kei ta'emahino mo ia? Tokua Ne 'i ai e famili ne nau lea mamafa ki ha Faifekau ha'ane ngali ngaue ta'etotonu'aki 'enau pa'anga. Ne iku to'o ai 'e he Faifekau/Fakatahaa honau lakanga, kae kei oo pe famili ko enii ki he lotuu. Ne na fakatou taa ki he kau polisii 'i ha houa lotu 'e taha pe 'oku kei totonu ke nau ma'ulotu ai. Ne ha'u e kau polisii 'o 'eke 'enau totonu...membership by Fakataha or by baptism?...pea mahino, 'oku nau membership by baptism...pea foki leva e kau polisii ia.,,he 'oku 'i ai e totonu ia 'a e familii ni ke nau kei ma'ulotu pe kinautolu 'i ha SUTT pe..

Ka faifai atu 'etau fononga ni, pea faka'ilo ha kei ma'ulotu 'a ha taha, 'i Tonga ni, pe mei muli na.. he SUTT...'oku "fu'u mahino" fefe 'a e iku'anga mo e fakamaau ko ia? ...he ka fai''aki 'a e membership Tohi Kakaii/Fakataha'anga?...'oku kei ai ha'anau totonu ke nau ma'ulotu ai?...'ikai 'e tu'utu'uni 'e he kau polisii ke nau mavahe leva?...ko e "fu'u mahinoo" eni?...'osi angee ..ko 'eku 'ai memipaa he ko ha kautaha lii pa'anga?...mahalo Church is far more than a mere social institutiion...mo e lau juristiction, legality, control, ownership. etc...it has a greater invisible spiritual dimension...pea ko ia ke tau fakamafamafa faofao atu ki aii...inclusive joyfully mei he papitaiso...willfully ready to change 'i ha fanga ki'i moki'i policy accordingly..mo toki sikalamu holo aipe 'i loto...kae kei tu'uta'engaue he faith ne tau papitaiso aii...

ka ko e anga pe foki e sio..

--

fakapulia

[Seer]

mahino pee ko e kau polisi ne oo atuu, ko e kau siasi mamonga. he ne nau oo atu kinautolu mo e mentality 'a e siasi mamonga. ko e membership from baptism, 'oku 'ikai 'i ai ha tu'utu'uni pehee ia 'a e uesiliana. tukukehe kapau kuo 'osi fakapapau'i eni ia 'i ha konifelenisi. ka ko e fo'i lau pee ia, ka 'oku 'ikai tala pau mai 'e he konisitutone, pe tu'utu'uni ki ai ha fakataha 'a e siasi. he ko 'etau me'a kotoa pee, kuopau ke paasi 'i he konifelenisi pea toki lau ia ko 'etau tu'utu'uni. ka ko e faka'uhinga 'o e membership from baptism, ko e lau pee ia 'a e ni'ihi - 'oku 'ikai ko ha tu'utu'uni ia. he kuo lahi faufaua e kakai ne papi 'i he SUTT ka kuo nau siasi kehe kinautolu. 'oku hala ia ke tau lau e kakai ko ia, ko e memipa 'a e SUTT he 'oku nau siasi kehe kinautolu mo fua e kavenga 'o e siasi kehe. ka 'oku taau ke toe vakai'i e definition 'o e fo'i lea ko e membership 'i he SUTT. he ko e konga si'i pee ena ia 'oku fakamatala mai 'e he tohi miniti 'o e konifelenisi. 'oku toe ki'i taha atu e define ia 'e he tohi kakai, 'e lea membership.

ka na'e tonu pee e foki ia 'a e polisi, he ko e polisi mamonga ia. ka ko e sio pee foki....

[Penisimani Mone]

 Seer?

...ko e membership from baptism, 'oku 'ikai 'i ai ha tu'utu'uni pehee ia 'a e uesiliana. ... ka ko e fo'i lau pee ia, ka 'oku 'ikai tala pau mai 'e he konisitutone, pe tu'utu'uni ki ai ha fakataha 'a e siasi. he ko 'etau me'a kotoa pee, kuopau ke paasi 'i he konifelenisi pea toki lau ia ko 'etau tu'utu'uni. ka ko e faka'uhinga 'o e membership from baptism, ko e lau pee ia 'a e ni'ihi - 'oku 'ikai ko ha tu'utu'uni ia...

----

'OKU KAU FAKAKUU HA TAHA KI HE SIASII? ...(He 'oku 'ikai fanau'i mai ha taha 'i mamani 'i he loto Siasii?)

Siasi fee?....Siasi ta'ehaa maii (Siasi 'o Kalaisii, Siasi tapu mo taha pe, Lotu Fakakalisitianee, etc?)...pe siasi haamaii (Katolika Loma, SUTT, STOT, SOT, MAAMA FO"OU, TUTONE, Uniting, UMC, etc)?...

Vakai e Tohi Himi 'a e SUTT,  "KO E FAI 'O E SAKALAMENITI KO E PAPITAISO"...pp 237.. "'Oku tau fakahuu 'a e tamasi'i ni ki he siasi 'o Kalaisi, [Siasi Ta'ehaa?...One, Holy, Catholic & Apostolic, pe SUTT?] koe'uhi ke akonekina ia 'i he ng. tokateline mo e ng. to'onga 'o e lotu fakaKalisitiane..."...ko e membership by baptism eni pe te'eki ai?...membership he SUTT pe te'eki ai?

Toe vakai 'a e "Ko hono Ua 'o e FEHU'I MO E TALI", paaki fakamuimui tahaa, KO E SIASI...KO E SAKALAMENITI...pp 56-58.

5. Ko e finangalo koaa 'o e 'Eikii ke kau 'a e kakai kotoa pe 'i he Siasi Haamaii?

'Io, 'oku haa 'i he potu kotoa pe 'o e Fuakava Fo'ouu ko hono finangaloo ia.

7. Ko e papitaiso 'o e kakai lalahi, ko e ha hono 'uhinga?

'Oku fakakau leva kinautolu ki he Siasi Haamai 'o Kalaisii {SUTT?]; pea 'oku sila'i ma'anautolu ('okapau 'oku naau fakatomala mo'oni) 'a e ngaahi tapuaki 'o e kovinanitee.

8. 'Oku feefee 'a e kau valevale 'oku papitaisoo?

'Oku nau kau leva ki he Siasi Haamaii [SUTT?], pea 'oku 'o nautolu hono lelei 'i tu'a: pea 'oku pau foki mo'o nautolu 'a e ngaahi koloa fakalaumalie 'oku tu'u he kovinanitee, 'oka nau ka fai 'amui hono ngaahi tu'utu'uni...

...ko e membership by baptism eni pe te'eki ai?...membership he SUTT pe te'eki ai?...na'a tau mo'unofoa tautolu hano fakasio he miniti konifelenisii mo e konisitutonee kae taa 'oku hikitohi ia 'i ha'atau naunau kehe?...he kapau ko e tohi eni mo 'uhinga ki he fakatou membership he Siasi 'o Kalaisii mo e SUTT by baptism...pea 'oku anga feefee leva ai ha'atau tuputupulefanua...ko e membership from baptism, 'oku 'ikai 'i ai ha tu'utu'uni pehee ia 'a e uesiliana. ... ka ko e fo'i lau pee ia, ka 'oku 'ikai tala pau mai 'e he konisitutone, pe tu'utu'uni ki ai ha fakataha 'a e siasi. .. ka ko e faka'uhinga 'o e membership from baptism, ko e lau pee ia 'a e ni'ihi - 'oku 'ikai ko ha tu'utu'uni ia...?

ka ko 'etau laulau pe foki eni...

[Sami Pakofe]

Fakalata e fepotalanoa'ki, pea oku fakamafana ma'u 'ae laukonga.. malie lahi e Faktalanoa kihe 'ete hoko Koe memipa " talu meihoto 'aho papi, fakamafna ia, fa'apehe mai ekau kk kiau, 'alu o kau ha Siasi, peau talange , kuou kei Sutt pe ki Tokomolo, peau Uniting Church heni i Campsie, ta koee 'oku fu'u 'aonga 'aupito hono " Fakahuu -kita-kihe siasi-o-kalaisi...

Pea kapau koia hange koho'o Fakatalanoa Fakapulia, oku tau memipa kotoa pe ihe Sutt hena'e papi ai kitautolu, pea " toe Fakhuu kitautolu kihe -Siasi- -o -Kalaisi.......... Kapau koia,  pea ta koe Siasi 'o Kalisi ia, oku ikai toe fai ai ha fakatonutonu mohenga pe tuhu holo ai,,, kate 'alu pe kita pea te 'alu pea ka toe fie foki mai pea te foki mai,,, he koe Finangalo ia 'o Kalaisi ketau " tau'ataiana mo fiefia kihe me'a oku te loto kiai, 'o 'ikai "sisina kita 'ehe Konisitutone koee pe koe Koni mahalo 'e au kuou tele atu au i North Korea ee... .

ka ko'etau laulau pe foki,,,,,,,,,, mahalo kuo te mano'ono'o e fifili ia 'a wayne....

sami.

[Penisimani Mone]

Malo Sami....kae mahalo pe kuo faka'au pe ke moolia atu ha tokanga 'a hotau kakaii ki he'etau tokatelinee, Sisu mo 'ene Folofolaa,  'o fakamamafa ange he visible church mo 'ene protocality...tau takitaha pukepuke 'etau certificate papitaiso...ko e 'eke mai pe 'e ha taha ha'atau ID ko e produce atu ia e tohi papii...

Ko e taha nai e misleading definition motu'a e SUTT membership ko e....Full membership by confirmation (Lotu Fehu'i)...'a ia, kapau 'oku toki full membership he Lotu Fehu'ii, kae haa leva e papitaisoo ia?...membership vaeua?....membership fakaeneene?....memipa fanongo pe?...etc...'o fa'a tupu heni ha'atau fa'a sio ma'ama'a ki hotau papitaisoo, 

Kiate au...'oku 'osi full SUTT membership at baptism,,,neongo ai hono fa'a kei ui ia tokua ko e "memipa fanongo"...ko e confirmation 'o e Lotu Fehu'ii ko e confirmation nai ia 'o e faith ne tau tala''ofa ki ai he papitaisoo...pea 'oku pau foki mo'o nautolu 'a e ngaahi koloa fakalaumalie 'oku tu'u he kovinanitee, 'oka nau ka fai 'amui hono ngaahi tu'utu'uni......kae 'ikai ko ha confirmation ia 'o e full SUTT membership...'o 'i ai leva 'ene totonu e mmemipaa ke ne ngaue'aki ha naunau, koloa pe kau he services 'a e SUTT, kau mo claim e ngaahi services 'a e SUTT, etc...pea ke vakai kiate ia e SUTT ko hono memipa kakato ia ;o tauhi mo tokanga'i mo fakaai...'o 'oua e fakali'eli'aki...

Ko e toki fakalakalaka mei he Fanongo, Ului, Akoako, ki he tu'unga ma'olungataha ko e konifemasioo (Lotu Fehu'i) ko e fakalakalaka fakalakanga nai ia, kae 'ikai ko ha fakalakalaka fakamembership...pea 'oku mahino mei he tohi kakai 'a e SUTT, ko e tokolahitaha 'i hono kau full members ko e lakanga Fanongoo...

...ka ko e anga pe foki eni e sio...

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fakapulia

[Seer]

malo fakapulia. ka 'oku ou tui ko e me'a kehekehe pee 'a e fakahuu e tamasi'i/ta'ahine ki he Siasi 'o Kalaisi (Siasi Ta'ehaa mai etc), mo e memipa 'i he SUTT. 'oku ou fakakaukau atu au ko e Siasi 'o Kalaisi, 'a e Siasi Fakatahataha 'oku kau ki ai e ngaahi Siasi faka-kalisitiane kotoa pee, 'o kau ai e SUTT. ko e Siasi ia 'o Kalaisi. 'oku toki link ki ai e ngaahi Siasi faka-Kalisitiane. ko e kau ki he Siasi 'o Kalaisi (Siasi Fakatahataha 'a e kau Kalisitiane), 'oku ou fakakaukau au 'e fou atu ki ai mei he ngaahi siasi faka-kalisitiane. ko ia, ko e memipa leva 'i he Siasi fakatahataha ko ia, 'oku fai 'i he papitaiso.

ko e memipa 'i he ngaahi siasi faka-kalisitiane (initivituale), 'oku fai 'aki ia e konisitutone mo e tu'utu'uni ngaue 'a e siasi taau taha. pea 'oku link mo de-link e siasi taau taha mei he Siasi fakatahataha, 'o makatu'unga 'i he'ene konisitutone, tokateline mo tu'utu'uni ngaue. ko 'etau 'amanaki ia, ko e konisitutone, tokateline mo e tu'utu'uni ngaue 'a e SUTT 'oku fenapasi mo e finangalo 'o e 'Otua; kae lava ke 'i ai ha fekau'aki (connection/link) 'a e SUTT mo e Siasi Fakatahataha 'a e kau Kalisitiane.

ko e ngaahi siasi kotoa ko ia kuo 'i ai 'enau fekau'aki, eg. SUTT, SUKT, SFUT etc, 'oku vahevahe kinautolu 'i he kehekehe 'i ha taha (pe kotoa) 'o e konisitutone (K), tokateline (T) mo e tu'utu'uni ngaue (T). ka neongo 'enau kehekehe, kapau 'oku finangalo lelei pee e 'Otua ki he'enau KTT, pea ko 'enau papitaiso leva ke fakahu 'ene kau memipa ki he Siasi Tapu mo Taha pee, ko e Siasi 'o Kalaisi pe ko e Siasi Fakatahataha 'a e kau Kalisitiane. 'a ia ko e papitaiso, ko e fo'i ngaue 'a e siasi 'initivituale, 'oku fai ki he'ene kau memipa, kae lava ke nau huu ki he Siasi lahi.

tau foki mai ki he siasi 'initivituale. ko 'eku ma'u lotu 'i he SUTT, ko 'eku fakahaa'i ia 'eku memipa 'i he SUTT. ko 'eku tauhi e tu'utu'uni 'a e konisitutone, tokateline mo e tu'utu'uni ngaue 'a e SUTT, ko 'eku fakahaa'i ia 'eku memipa 'i he SUTT. ko 'eku papitaiso, ko 'eku fakahaa'i ia kuo fakahuu au 'e he SUTT ki he Siasi Tapu mo Taha pee (ko e Siasi 'o Kalaisi), 'a ee 'oku memipa ai 'a e SUTT. pea ko hoku kaume'a ko Sione 'i he Siasi 'o Tonga, mo Pita 'i he Siasi Katolika, mo Susana 'i he Siasi Maama Fo'ou, mo Lilika 'i he City Impact; kuo fakahuu kotoa kinautolu 'i he'enau papitaiso, 'omau hoko kotoa pee ko e memipa 'i he Siasi Tapu mo Taha pee. ka ko 'eku huu mai ia 'a'aku, mei he SUTT ('a ee na'a ku memipa ai), mo Sione mei he SOT ('a ee na'e memipa ai), mo Pita mei he SKL ('a ee na'e memipa ai) mo Susana mei he SMF ('a ee na'e memipa ai) mo Lilika mei he CI ('a ee na'e memipa ai).

'io. ko e SUTT au, pea 'oku ou kau foki ki he Siasi Fakatahataha 'a e kau Kalisitiane. pe 'oku tonu koaaa...

[Penisimani Mone]

Maalie ia Seer:... 

...ka 'oku ou tui ko e me'a kehekehe pee 'a e fakahuu e tamasi'i/ta'ahine ki he Siasi 'o Kalaisi (Siasi Ta'ehaa mai etc), mo e memipa 'i he SUTT. 'oku ou fakakaukau atu au ko e Siasi 'o Kalaisi, 'a e Siasi Fakatahataha 'oku kau ki ai e ngaahi Siasi faka-kalisitiane kotoa pee, 'o kau ai e SUTT. 

----

'Oku tau 'ilo mei he ouau 'o e Papitaisoo 'a hotau fakahuu memipa he Siasi fakaleveleva  'o Kalaisii...pea tau 'ilo mei he Fehu'i mo e Talii, 'oku hoko fakataha ai 'i he papitaiso tatau mo hotau fakahuu memipa kakato atu 'i he gate 'a e SUTT...maalie ia Seer...'o ne ala over rule ai 'e he papitaiso tatau pe 'e taha ko iaa ha'atau new definition ....Full membership by census only...maalie e talanoa..

[Penisimani Mone]

Ka ko e Sakalameniti Papitaisoo, ko ha tu'utu'uni pe ia 'a e Siasii 'iate ia pe?

'IKAI...ka ko e fekau lahi/tu'utu'uni ia mo e fekau 'a e 'Ulu 'o e Siasii ko Kalaisi, 'i he Tohi Tapuu...e.g. vakai 'a Mat 28:18-20

('Oku hangee nai e fekau ko enii ha lesson plan fakafaiakoo....}

General objective

Kuo tuku kiate au ‘a e pule kotoa pē ‘i langi pea ki māmani. 

Specific objective

v.19 Ko ia, ke mou ō, ‘o ngaohi ‘a e ngaahi kakai kotoa pē ko ‘eku kau ako, 

Methodlogy

 ‘i he papitaiso kinautolu ki he Huafa ‘o e Tamai mo e ‘Alo mo e Laumālie Mā‘oni‘oni:

Content

v.20 mo e ako‘i kinautolu ke tauhi ‘a e ngaahi me‘a kotoa pē kuo u tu‘utu‘uni atu. 

Evaluation

Pea ko ‘eni, ‘oku ou ‘iate kimoutolu ‘e au ‘i he ngaahi ‘aho kotoa pē, ‘o a‘u ki he ngata‘anga ‘o māmani 

...mahalo 'oku 'ikai pe ha methodoly Tohi Kakai ia ai?...'o tatau 'i he Siasi Ta'ehaa pe siasi haamaii?

--

fakapulia

[sep...@optusnet.com.au]

Malo Fakapulia, " ka ko e fekau lahi/tu'utu'uni ia mo e fekau 'a e 'Ulu 'o e Siasii ko Kalaisi, 'i he Tohi Tapuu...e.g. vakai 'a Mat 28:18-20 "

'I he fekau ko ia, kuo u tataki ai 'ae 'Ohomohe 'ae 'Eiki he Pulelulu Uike kotoa pe 'i hoku famili ke fakamanatu kiate kimautolu  'ae Pekia mo e toetu'u hotau 'Eiki ko Sisu Kalaisi.

Kuo u ngaue 'aki pe 'a e lotu vete he Tohi Himi 'a Molitoni Peesi 234, pea ko e ouau ko e lau pe Folofoloa ko ena kuo fokotu'u hake mo eee 'ia Kolinito. Fai mo e ng lotu ,,'oku fakamafana 'apito
'e ne hoko tu'otaha he Uike he lotofale 'o e Famili, pea tu'otaha he Mahina homau Siasii.

Malo 'aupito e ngaue lahi hotau ng Siasi, ka 'oku taau ketau lau 'etau folofola 'o lave'i ai e ng me'a 'oku ala fakahoko pe ia ta'ekau ai e Siasi, hange ko e 'Ohomohe 'ae 'Eikii,
fakamo'oni ma'a Kalaisi he ng feitu'u kotoa pe, ngaohi kakai ma'ae 'Eiki ..ka ko e me'a fakalata ke kaukaua e kau fakamo'oni hange ko ia 'i he Siasii.

Ko e 'atunga eni ia e fakafalala he Siasi e me'a kotoa, kuo mau ngangau'ulu atu mautolu heni he'emau ng feinga-tau hange ko ia kuo mou mea'ii.

Hoko atu mu'a e feme'a'akii.

'I he nonga 'ae 'Eiki.

----- Original Message -----

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tasil...@googlegroups.com

To:

<tasil...@googlegroups.com>

Cc:

Sent:

Fri, 11 Aug 2017 06:34:28 +1300

Subject:

Re: [tasilisili] mafai fokotu'u siasi

Ke to'o ho tu'asila mei he memipa he Tasilisili, email ki he tasilisili-...@googlegroups.com

Ko e website 'a e Tasilisili ko e http://groups.google.com/group/tasilisili

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fakapulia

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[sep...@optusnet.com.au]

sorry, 'oku ou 'uhinga atu au he 'Ohomohe 'ae 'Eiki.., ko e taha ia e ng fekau 'a Sisu ki hono kau muimui kenau fai pehe mo'ono fakamanatu...
Matiu 26: 226 -28 mo 1 Kolinitoo 11: 26...

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Subject:

Re: [tasilisili] mafai fokotu'u siasi

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[Penisimani Mone]

'OKU TOKI TO'O FAKAKUU HOTO MEMBERSHIP BY BAPTISM MEI HE SIASI HAAMAII (SUTT)?

-Mahalo ;e toki to'o ia 

i) 'i ha'ate pekia fakasino, neongo 'oku te kei kau aipe 'i he Siasi Ta'ehaa...e.g. Acts 7:59 Pea nau fai ‘a e tolongi ‘o Sitīveni ‘oku ne tautapa ange ‘o pehē, ‘Eiki Sīsū, ke ke ma‘u atu hoku laumālie. .. Pea ‘i he‘ene lea pehē na‘a ne mohe. 

ii) 'i ha'ate faka'ikai'i 'a e tui fakakalisitiane/totonu na'e papitaiso'aki kitaa, 'o te hiki ki ha lotu kehe..e.g. 1Jn 7 Koe‘uhi kuo ‘i ai ‘a e tokolahi fakahē na‘e ‘alu atu ki māmani, ko e fa‘ahinga ‘oku ‘ikai te nau fakamo‘oni ki he ha‘u ‘a Sīsū Kalaisi ‘i he kakano. Ko eni ia ‘a Fakahē mo Fiekalaisi. 8 Mou tokanga kiate kimoutolu 9 Ko ia kotoa pē ‘oku mu‘omu‘a, ‘o ‘ikai te ne nofo ma‘u ‘i he tokāteline ‘a Kalaisi, ‘oku ‘ikai te ne ma‘u ‘a e ‘Otua. Ko ia ‘oku ne nofo ma‘u ‘i he tokāteline ko ia, ‘oku ma‘u ‘e he toko taha ko ia ‘a e Tamai mo e ‘Alo fakatou‘osi. 10 Kapau ā kuo ha‘u kiate kimoutolu ha toko taha, ‘o ‘ikai ha‘u mo ia ‘a e tokāteline ko ia, ‘oua te mou tali ia ki homou fale, pea ‘oua te mou pehē kiate ia, Si‘oto‘ofa: 11 he ko ia ‘oku ne pehē kiate ia Si‘oto‘ofa ‘oku ne kau ‘i he‘ene ngaahi ngāue kovi. 

iii) 'Oku toka'i 'e he siasii 'a e free will ko e me'a'ofa 'a e 'Otua, pea ko e totonu ta'ealato'o 'a e tau'ataina ki he'ete lotu, pea ka kuo faitu'utu'uni ha taha ke ne hiki ki ha lotu kehe, pea 'oku ne deny ai foki both SIASI TA'EHAA mo SUTT membershipS by baptism..e.g. Heb 10: 29 Mou faka‘uta ki he kovi ange ‘ānoa ‘o e tautea ‘e lau ‘oku tuha mo ia kuo ne mala ‘i he ‘Alo ‘o e ‘Otua, pea kuo ne lau ‘a e ta‘ata‘a fuakava ko e me‘a noa pē, ‘a e ta‘ata‘a ne fakatāpui ai ia, pea kuo ne pā‘usi‘i ‘a e Laumālie ‘oku mei ai ‘ete kelesi! 

'OKU MALAVA 'E HE SUTT KE NE "TU'USI" HA'ANE MEMBERSHIP BY BAPTISM 'AKI HA HIKI 'A E MEMIPA KO IAA KI HA SIASI HAAMAI FAKAKALISITIANE KEHE?

-Mahalo... NOOO!

i) Ko e fehikitaki fakalotofale pe eni 'i loto 'i he ngaahi siasi haamai 'o e Siasi Ta'ehaa 'o Kalaisii, 'a ia ne nau fakatou papitaiso ki aii...'o 'ikai mole ai hanau membership 'i hee pe ko ee

ii) Ko e fehikitaki pe eni he juristiction 'e taha ki he juristiction 'e taha ...(kae 'ikai mei ha siasi ki ha lotu kehe)...pea 'ikai ala fakatou to'o ai ha membership by baptism 'o taha... 'o tatau 'i he Siasi Ta'ehaa...pe siasi haamaii (SUTT)...pea 'oku tau ngaue'aki heni 'a e tohi-hiki pe..

iii) 'Oku taha pe 'enau membership by baptism...'o 'ikai ai toe papi fo'ou 'e hanau taha ha taha...e.g. .Eph 4: 4 ‘Oku taha pē ‘a e Sino, pea taha ‘a e Laumālie, hangē foki ‘oku taha ‘a e ‘amanaki ‘oku tupu mei he ui na‘e ui‘aki kimoutolu. 5 ‘Oku taha pē ‘a e ‘Eiki, taha ‘a e Tui, taha ‘a e Papitaiso; 6 taha ‘a e ‘Otua mo Tamai ‘a e kakai kotoa pē, ‘a ia ‘oku pule ki he kakai kotoa pē, pea ‘oku fou atu ‘i he kakai kotoa pē pea ‘oku nofo‘ia ‘a e kakai kotoa pē. 

KO IA AI, mahalo:

1) 'Oua e feto'oaki 'a e hiki mei ha siasi fakakalisitiane ki ha lotu ta'efakakalisitianee (to'o/fakafisi ai hoto membership by baptism), pea mo e fehikitaki fakalotofale pe 'i he ngaahi siasi fakakalisitianee (tohi-hiki)..

2) 'Oku 'ikai pe ha membership by census

3) Ke kei manatu'i 'e he SUTT mo hono kau memipa ne ne papitaisoo kotoa pe'oku nau kei memipa pe kinautolu mei honau papitaisoo, neongo ai e ngaahi fehikitaki kehekehe, pe 'i ha'ate toe fokotu'u siasi fakakalisitiane fo'ou, pe to'o hato lakanga, pe discipline, pe 'i ha'ate fai angahala (moletale pe viniale...'o kapau 'oku 'i ai ha taha 'oku hao),,,etc...'aahh...'oku 'ikai ke malava 'e ha me'a 'e taha ke ne to'o/tu'usi/motuhi ha membership through baptism...kae 'oua leva pe kuo fakamavae 'e he mate (he ko ha mali?), pe publicly recant e faith at baptism...

ka ko e anga pe sio..

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[Maafu Palu]

Peni,

Kapau 'oku mahino kiate au ho'o fakamatala pea:

'Oku ou ongo'i 'oku ke 'ange 'ekoe ki he papitaiso 'a e mafai fakahu ki he Siasi Ta'ehamai 'o Kalaisi, 'a ia 'oku 'ikai ke fai ia 'i he Tohitapu mo e Tokateline hotau Siasi.

Mo'oni 'oku fakahu 'a e tamasi'i/ta'ahine ki he Siasi Hamai 'i he papitaiso, ka ko hono fakahu-'amanaki pe. 'E 'i ai e 'aho 'e tupu hake, he funga hono akonekina ia 'i he ngaahi Tokateline Fakakalisitiani, pea 'e mate ngaahi me'a 'a e kakano, kae mo'ui ' ae ngaahi me'a 'a e Laumalie; 'E mate 'a e tangata motu'a 'oku tupu mo ia, kae mo'ui 'a e tangata-fo'ou 'oku fakafo'ou'aki ia 'a e fanau'ifo'ou ('Uhinga ia 'o e ngaahi kupu'ilotu 'oku tau faka-'emeni he papitaiso).

Ko e fanau'ifo'ou 'i he tui kia Kalaisi, 'oku ne toki fakahu ha taha ki he Siasi Ta'ehamai 'o Kalaisi, 'a ee 'oku memipa ai ha taha pe, 'oku ne ma'u 'a Kalaisi Sisu ko e 'Eiki. Pea ko e memipa ta'eto'o ia, he 'oku tohi ai hoto hingoa he Tohi 'o e Mo'ui (Hepelu 12:22-24).

Ko e 'uhinga foki ia hono fokotu'u mo fakamamafa'i 'e hotau Siasi 'a e Lotufehu'i 'i he'etau Tokateliine, ko e taimi ia ke toki fakahu ai 'a e tokotaha ki he Siasi Ta'ehamai, he kuo ne ma'u 'a Kalaisi Sisu ko hono 'Eiki mo Fakamo'ui.

Ko ia, 'oku sai pe 'a e papitaiso ia, pea 'oku ou tui au kuo tonu ke tau toe fakafoki mai moe  papitaiso kakai lahi, he taimi, 'oka kuo tali ai 'e he taha 'a Sisu, ke ne 'ilo'i 'a e mamafa 'o e tu'utu'uni ko ia, 'aki 'ene fai e Sakalameniti papitaiso. 

Ka na'a fu'u mahu'inga 'a e papitaiso 'o mole ai 'a e 'uhinga na'e fokotu'utu'u lelei ai 'a e ngaahi Tokateline kehe 'etau Lotu - fanau'ifo'ou, ohi, ma'oni'oni haohaoa esitelaa.

Si'oto'ofaatu,

Ma'afu Palu

Loving husband of but one wife Elizabeth; Father of Tevita, Freddie and Pate

"Looking to Jesus" - Anonymous 1st Century Preacher (aka "Hebrews")

[Sione]

Malie e talanoa!

Ko e ha 'oku toe papi ai 'ehe siasi 'e ni'ihi e memipa ne 'osi papi ia he fungavaka ne ''iai??

'Oku 'ikai lava 'ehe fo'i papi ua 'o fakama'a e papi 'uluaki? 

Kapau 'e to e foki mai kihe siasi 'o e 'uluaki papi, 'e hala nai ketau toe fai pe papi ke ne fakama'a 'ae fo'i papi ua?

Kapau 'oku 'ikai tonu fkTohitapu pe fakatokateline? Ka matamata lelei fakaouau mo fakamolale mo fakatauhikakai. Fiefia e famili pe tokotaha hono toe papi ke ne ongo'i 'oku mahu'inga 'ene foki mai.

Mo'oni lau 'ae ki'i motu'a Vv papi pe he ta'u kotoa pea hoko papi 2 he ta'u. Pea fai e fakamalie he tano'a e faifekau, pehe mai motu'a ia "ko 'eku ngaahi 'eni ho ki'i nima faifekau ke ma'u 'ehe niumonia" hh

Malie Talanga

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[Maafu Palu]

Hhh Sione,

'Oku 'ikai ko e papi tulu'i pe. Ko e papi 2, ko e hopo ki tahi, 'o fakauku ai, pe ko e housi'i pe pi vai'i, 'oku lahi pe founga ia, ke fai ai e fakameleuku. Ko e papi tulu'i ia, fe'unga ia mo e kau pepee. Ko 'eku 'uhinga 'a'aku ki he papi Soatani 'a e kakai kuo tui ki he 'Eiki.

Mahalo ko 'ene toki niumonia ia 'etau faifekau eh.

Si'oto'ofaatu,

Ma'afu Palu

Loving husband of but one wife Elizabeth; Father of Tevita, Freddie and Pate

"Looking to Jesus" - Anonymous 1st Century Preacher (aka "Hebrews")

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[seni taniela]

 Maafu Palu <maafu...@gmail.com>

Kapau 'oku mahino kiate au ho'o fakamatala pea:

'Oku ou ongo'i 'oku ke 'ange 'ekoe ki he papitaiso 'a e mafai fakahu ki he Siasi Ta'ehamai 'o Kalaisi, 'a ia 'oku 'ikai ke fai ia 'i he Tohitapu mo e Tokateline hotau Siasi.

Mo'oni 'oku fakahu 'a e tamasi'i/ta'ahine ki he Siasi Hamai 'i he papitaiso, ka ko hono fakahu-'amanaki pe. 'E 'i ai e 'aho 'e tupu hake, he funga hono akonekina ia 'i he ngaahi Tokateline Fakakalisitiani, pea 'e mate ngaahi me'a 'a e kakano, kae mo'ui ' ae ngaahi me'a 'a e Laumalie; 'E mate 'a e tangata motu'a 'oku tupu mo ia, kae mo'ui 'a e tangata-fo'ou 'oku fakafo'ou'aki ia 'a e fanau'ifo'ou ('Uhinga ia 'o e ngaahi kupu'ilotu 'oku tau faka-'emeni he papitaiso).

Ko e fanau'ifo'ou 'i he tui kia Kalaisi, 'oku ne toki fakahu ha taha ki he Siasi Ta'ehamai 'o Kalaisi, 'a ee 'oku memipa ai ha taha pe, 'oku ne ma'u 'a Kalaisi Sisu ko e 'Eiki. Pea ko e memipa ta'eto'o ia, he 'oku tohi ai hoto hingoa he Tohi 'o e Mo'ui (Hepelu 12:22-24).

========================

Malo Ma'afu

Poupou atu.

Ko e fakamamafa'i e papitaiso e Fakapulia  oku tau tele tautolu ai he Mamonga!!!!Papi kae toki siasi!!!

Ko e tokateline o e Papitaiso oku ikai ke kau ia he ngaahi Tokateline Tefito (primary doctrines) hangee ko e Tolu Taha'i Otua, Sisu ko e Otua etc.

Ko e Siasi ko eni oku te ma'utokoni mei ai he taimi nii, oku pehee ni 'ete hoko ko ha memipa:

1) Ne te kamata ma'ulotu oua toe si'isi'iange he mahina e tolu.

2)Ne te lau e statement of faith pea te fakamo'oni i loto oku te tui ki ai.

3)Hiki tohi palakalafi e ua pe tolu fekau'aki mo e founga ne te pehee ne te hoko ai ko e Kalisitiane pea kau ai mo e te fakamatala'i pee ko e haa e uhinga kia kita a e Kosipelii

4) Oku kau mo e papitaiso vailahii hono fakalotolahi'i ka oku talamai kapau ne te osi papitaiso vailahi ha fa'ahinga Siasi fakaKalisitiane kehe eg.  Siasi Papitaiso...  etc pea fai'aki pe papi ko iaa.  Ko e hoaa ne osi papi vailahi ia he Siasi Papitaiso heni pea neu osi papivailahi au e Pukemo'ui 'Aipolo i Tonga na pea neu fai'aki pee ia 'e au.

5) Pea oku kau leva mo e Core Value e 7 e Siasii oku to'o mei he Folofolaa hono pole'i'aki e taha fie memipaa pe oku loto ke kau hono toungaue'i pea ka ikai pea oku 'ataa pee ke te memipa 'eve'eva pee o a'u ki he'ete mate etc.

[seni taniela]

 Maafu Palu <maafu...@gmail.com>

'Oku 'ikai ko e papi tulu'i pe. Ko e papi 2, ko e hopo ki tahi, 'o fakauku ai, pe ko e housi'i pe pi vai'i, 'oku lahi pe founga ia, ke fai ai e fakameleuku. Ko e papi tulu'i ia, fe'unga ia mo e kau pepee. Ko 'eku 'uhinga 'a'aku ki he papi Soatani 'a e kakai kuo tui ki he 'Eiki.

==========

Mou manatu'i ko e 1993 pe 1994 ne papitaiso vailahi ai 'a 'Ena 'Afifio Kingi Taufa'ahau Tupou IV mo Kuini Halaevalu Mata'aho 'i Isileli  'e he founder o Calvary Chapel ko Chuck Smith ko e talafakahaahaa ki mamani 'ena tui kia Kalaisi etc.

Mahalo ko 'ene toki niumonia ia 'etau faifekau eh.

sila mei he memipa he Tasilisili, email ki he tasilisili-unsubscribe@ googlegroups.com

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fakapulia

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[hingano pakileata]

malo e talanga si'i kau faifekau..pea mahino mo 'aonga foki..kuo fe'unga eni ia ke fakakakato 'eku ki'i pepa ..ueh ko e pepa ia 'a e tama ako sia'atoutai...ppea kuo 'ai ai mo fa'a oo ako mo e fakahela hh...

Poupou atu mei he kau lau fakalongolongo..

 Maafu Palu <maafu...@gmail.com>

Ke to'o ho tu'asila mei he memipa he Tasilisili, email ki he tasilisili-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

Ko e website 'a e Tasilisili ko e http://groups.google.com/group/tasilisili

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[Sami Pakofe]

totoo atu epotalnoa, pea oku malie lahi ia, ko'etau " fehu'ii foki ' koe ha me'a oku kei Fakamafa'ii ai pe Ma'umafai ai e Kau faifekau kuo tu'utu'uni pe 'osi to'o honau lakanga Faifekau, pe koeha nai kuo nau toe oo ai o fokotu'u lotu lolotonga kuo to'o honau lakanga...

, pea meihe tauakave 'a Peni, neongo 'ene to'o ka 'oku ikai to'o ai hono papi...... koe fo'i ' me'a malie taha ia.... 'aia oku totonu ke pehe,,,, kapau kuo to'o hono Lakanga koe'uhi koha "conflict" pea totonu ke " to'o mohono papi......ka oku ikai to'o ia.

'aia koe me'a leva oku mahino mai.......... ta koe "papi" ia koe fo'i me'a maumautaimi pe ia kapau heikai ke Faka'aonga'i hono mahu'inga ..... neongo koe me'i vaipe, topuvai", ka ke fakamahu'inga, ke mahino koe me'a ia 'e " Faka-kaka ai kita kihe " siasi-tapu 'oe 'eiki " pe koe ma'ama fo'ou.

Kuou tui lahi, koe me'a ia oku < malohi ai e " Tauhi-'Otua " pe tauhi-tokateline 'ae Mamango ko'enau " mamae'ii honau papi-taiso na'a tu'usi kinautolu meihe Siasi....

Na'a kuo taimi ketau ngau'unu kiai , fakafoki mai e ngaahi tokateline 'oe siasi ketau 'ahi'ahi tauhi'ii mo faka'utumauku ai, na'a lava ai ke fakaholoholo e mapakipaki moe femotumotuhi..

he koe papi oku ha koe me'a lekaleka,,,,,,,, Kakohono " uho" koe" fu'u me'a mo'oni..

mahalo koe niumoniaa 'eni fofonu eee.

smp

 

[Penisimani Mone]

Malo Ma'afu e tau mo e ngaue...ko eni ne lava lelei aipe malanga'i hotau 'ahoo, toopou e falemohe fo'ou e fanauako fefinee, mo e lukuluku fakakolo aipe 'a e 5Ms... mafana, ma'a, moho, makona, mo e SMILES aipe...ko e kainga lotu Leotisiaa eni mau sai pe..

Malo mo e ma'u taimi ke fa'a lau hifo 'etau talanoa ni, pea neu ongo'i pe he'etau foki mai mei he konifelenisii, 'oku lahilahi e ngaahi fetoo'aki he'etau ma'u ki he'etau tokatelinee, mei he tohitapuu...kae pangoo ne 'ikai hano taimi lahi ai ke tau alea'i lelei ai e fokotu'u mahu'inga fekau'aki mo hotau membership 'i he Siasii/siasii, ka na'a 'oku sai ange tasilisili ni?.. neongo 'e ki'i fakapiko eni  ki hatau kau memipa kehe... Ka 'oku ou mahalo 'oku tau tui tatau pe 'i he ngaahi me'a lahi, ka ko e anga mahalo 'eku fakaleaa 'oku ta'emahino 'o tupu ai ha kehekehe 'etau hemeniuoo...kau toe 'ahi'ahi atu pe mo toe lililiu mai he copy n paste,.. 'o 'ikai ko ha'atau fakamaau lau foki eni ee...hahaha...ko e me'a lelei pe 'a e fe/mahino/'akii...

---

i) 'Oku ou ongo'i 'oku ke 'ange 'ekoe ki he papitaiso 'a e mafai fakahu ki he Siasi Ta'ehamai 'o Kalaisi, 

'Oku ou mahalo heni, 'oku ke fakakaukau kou u foaki 'e au heni ki he papitaisoo 'a e mafai fakahuu leva ki Hevani mo e Mo'ui Ta'engataa?..."oiaau ee!...kataki 'alaa, 'oku 'ikai 'aupito. 'Oku ou tui mo au ki ai, 'oku 'ikai malava 'e ha ouau fakasiasi ke ne foaki mola e Mo'ui Ta'engataa ki hano memipa, ka ko Kalaisi pe. Pea ka kuo faka'uhinga heni 'a e "Siasi Ta'ehamai/ 'o Kalaisii" ko e ultimate Hevani ia mo e mo'ui ta'engataa, pea mou kataki, 'oku 'ikai ko 'eku 'uhingaa ia henii.

Mahalo 'e fu'u loloa ke tau toe fai heni e tipeiti motu'a talu mei mu'a kau ki he visible vs/above/under/either or/both and/etc invisible church, neongo 'oku kei hiki tohi pehee 'i he'etau tokatelinee/Fehu'i mo e Tali 'a e SUTT...ka 'oku ou 'uhinga 'i he "siasi haamaii" ki he kakai kotoa 'oku kau ki he ngaahi siasi fakakalisitianee (e.g. Katolika Loma, SUTT, STOT, SOT, MAAMA FO"OU, TUTONE, Uniting, UMC, etc)....pea 'uhinga 'a e "siasi ta'ehaa/ 'o Kalaisii" ki he kakai kotoa kuo tui talu mei he kamata'anga 'o fai mai,.. 'Oku 'ikai nai ko ha ongo siasi kehekehe eni 'e ua, ka ko ha ongo vakai kehekehe fakatokateline pe ki he Siasi pe 'e ONE... pea 'oku ne/na fakatou kei 'i mamani pe 'o kei talitali ki he Fakamaau Lahi...

e.g. Fehu'i Mo e Tali Uaa, KO E SIASII, pp 56

2, Ko e ha 'a e Siasi Haamai mo e Siasi Ta'ehaamai?

Ko e Siasi Haamaii ko e kakai kotoa 'oku kau ki he Siasi Fakakalisitianee: ko e Siasi Ta'ehaamaii ko e kakai kotoa kuo tui talu mei he kamata'angaa.

3. Ko e Siasii ko e taha'i me'a [ONE] ko aa?

Ko e Siasi Ta'ehaamaii ko e taha'i me'a 'ia Kalaisi, ka ko e Siasi Haamaii 'oku ai hono faikehekehe 'i tu'a.

...'a ia 'oku 'ikai ke fai ia 'i he Tohitapu mo e Tokateline hotau Siasi.

Mo'oni 'aupito pe mo eni, 'okapau 'oku faka'uhinga'i 'a e papitaisoo ki he "Siasi Ta'ehaa 'o Kalaisi," tokua ko e fakahuu leva ia ki Hevani mo e mo'ui ta'engataa...KAAA,... 'oku fai/fekau'i foki e papitaisoo ia 'i he Tohitapuu... mo e Tokateline hotau siasii...KOE'UHI KO E HAA?...neu 'osi lave ki ai mei he tohitapu, tokateline, ordinance...

e.g.

"KO E FAI 'O E SAKALAMENITI KO E PAPITAISO"...pp 237.. 

"'Oku tau fakahuu 'a e tamasi'i ni ki he siasi 'o Kalaisi, [Siasi Ta'ehaa?...One, Holy, Catholic & Apostolic, pe SUTT?] koe'uhi ke akonekina ia 'i he ng. tokateline mo e ng. to'onga 'o e lotu fakaKalisitiane..

FEHU'I MO E TALI", .. KO E SIASI...KO E SAKALAMENITI...pp 56-58.

7. Ko e papitaiso 'o e kakai lalahi, ko e ha hono 'uhinga?

'Oku fakakau leva kinautolu ki he Siasi Haamai 'o Kalaisii [SUTT,Katolika Loma, STOT, SOT, MAAMA FO"OU, TUTONE, Uniting, UMC, SUTA, etc ]; pea 'oku sila'i ma'anautolu ('okapau 'oku naau fakatomala mo'oni) 'a e ngaahi tapuaki 'o e kovinanitee.

8. 'Oku feefee 'a e kau valevale 'oku papitaisoo?

'Oku nau kau leva ki he Siasi Haamaii [SUTT?], pea 'oku 'o nautolu hono lelei 'i tu'a: pea 'oku pau foki mo'o nautolu 'a e ngaahi koloa fakalaumalie 'oku tu'u he kovinanitee, 'oka nau ka fai 'amui hono ngaahi tu'utu'uni...

Ko ia ai:

i) 'Oku 'ikai ha lave ia heni ki ha fakahuu/fakakau ki Hevani mo e mo'ui ta'engataa...ka ki he siasii (haamai mo ta'ehaa) pe...

ii) Ko e papitaisoo, ko e initial ordinance ia fakatohitapu mo fakatokateline, mo sakalameniti 'a e Lotu Fakakalisitianee katoa, 'o 'ikai ko ha toki ouau ia 'a e Siasi Mamongaa...

iii) 'Oku fakamamafa he "fakahuu/fakakau" memipa 'a e papitaiso 'o e Fuakava Fo'ouu, 'etau tokatelinee, mo 'etau sakalameniti papitaisoo (kae 'ikai ko e tohi kakaii), ko e tupu mei he tui/toetu'u 'a Kalaisii, mo e 'amanaki lelei atu ki he'ene toe ha'ele maii,... 'o tau makehe ai mei he paalutu/kamu 'a e Siuu, pe papitaiso vai (lahi?) ki he fakatomala 'a Sione Papitaisoo, 

...ka ko 'etau toe fakafana pe foki eni e 'uu tipeiti motu'a talu mei mu'a he Siasii...ka 'oku ou tui 'oku sai pe koe'uhi ko 'etau 'amanaki atu ke define 'e he SUTT e...membership by census only... 

fakapulia

[Penisimani Mone]

Ma'afu:

Ko e fanau'ifo'ou 'i he tui kia Kalaisi, 'oku ne toki fakahu ha taha ki he Siasi Ta'ehamai 'o Kalaisi, 'a ee 'oku memipa ai ha taha pe, 'oku ne ma'u 'a Kalaisi Sisu ko e 'Eiki. Pea ko e memipa ta'eto'o ia, he 'oku tohi ai hoto hingoa he Tohi 'o e Mo'ui (Hepelu 12:22-24).

Ko e 'uhinga foki ia hono fokotu'u mo fakamamafa'i 'e hotau Siasi 'a e Lotufehu'i 'i he'etau Tokateliine, ko e taimi ia ke toki fakahu ai 'a e tokotaha ki he Siasi Ta'ehamai, he kuo ne ma'u 'a Kalaisi Sisu ko hono 'Eiki mo Fakamo'ui.

---

Malo Ma'afu, pea neu 'osi lave pe ki heni 'i mu'a ange, pea mahalo te ta kehekehe pe heni:

Ko e taha nai e misleading definition motu'a e SUTT membership ko e....Full membership by confirmation (Lotu Fehu'i)...'a ia, kapau 'oku toki full membership he Lotu Fehu'ii, kae haa leva e papitaisoo ia?...membership vaeua?....membership fakaeneene?....memipa fanongo pe?...etc...'o fa'a tupu heni ha'atau fa'a sio ma'ama'a ki hotau papitaisoo, 

Kiate au...'oku 'osi full SUTT membership at baptism,,,neongo ai hono fa'a kei ui ia tokua ko e "memipa fanongo"...ko e confirmation 'o e Lotu Fehu'ii ko e confirmation nai ia 'o e faith ne tau tala''ofa ki ai he papitaisoo...pea 'oku pau foki mo'o nautolu 'a e ngaahi koloa fakalaumalie 'oku tu'u he kovinanitee, 'oka nau ka fai 'amui hono ngaahi tu'utu'uni......kae 'ikai ko ha confirmation ia 'o e full SUTT membership..

----

Ma'afu:

Ko e fanau'ifo'ou 'i he tui kia Kalaisi, 'oku ne toki fakahu ha taha ki he Siasi Ta'ehamai 'o Kalaisi, 'a ee 'oku memipa ai ha taha pe, 'oku ne ma'u 'a Kalaisi Sisu ko e 'Eiki. Pea ko e memipa ta'eto'o ia, he 'oku tohi ai hoto hingoa he Tohi 'o e Mo'ui (Hepelu 12:22-24).

'Oku ou tui pehee, ka mahalo 'e/'oku/na'e 'i ai pe ha kau fanau'ifo'ou/tui 'o nau memipa ai he Siasi Ta'ehaamai 'o Kalaisii, pea me'apango,..nau toe faka'ikai'i ia kimui ange,...'o nau hiki ki ha lotu kehe ta'efakakalisitiane ... 'oku 'ikai teu 'ilo heni pe te nau kei memipa ta'eto'o aipe?... pe 'ikai?

..ka 'oku malie e talanoaa ia...

--

fakapulia

[Penisimani Mone]

Ma'afu:

Ko ia, 'oku sai pe 'a e papitaiso ia, pea 'oku ou tui au kuo tonu ke tau toe fakafoki mai moe  papitaiso kakai lahi, he taimi, 'oka kuo tali ai 'e he taha 'a Sisu, ke ne 'ilo'i 'a e mamafa 'o e tu'utu'uni ko ia, 'aki 'ene fai e Sakalameniti papitaiso. 

---

Ko e fokotu'u fo'ou nai eni, ...i) ke ua 'etau papitaisoo?...pe...ii) talitali ke toki lalahi 'o tui kae toki papitaiso?...sai pe...ka ko e fakamamafa fakasiasi Papigtaiso nai eni, ne 'osi fou mai pe ai 'a Sione Uesilee, pea ne kei taukave pe ke tau infant baptism pe, he ko e fakahuu/fakakau memipa pe ki he siasi haamai...'o toki process/progress ai ki he fanau'ifo'ou, ohi, ma'oni'oni haohaoa esitelaa 'a e Lotu Fehu'ii...pea 'oku tau tui mei he tohitapu 'oku tu'o/taha pe 'a e papitaiso 'a e siasi haamaii, 'o 'ikai toutou fai 'o hangee ko e Sakalameniti 'Ohomohee...

Ne 'osi hoko pe foki ha taukave pehe ni 'i ha SUTT 'e taha 'i Tonga ni, pea fakakikihi ha nau ni'ihi ke nau toe papi...'i ha vai lahi...fakafeta'i ...mahalo kuo malolo hifo ia...pe na'a ko e tonuu koaa ia...

...ka ko 'etau laulau pe foki eni...

--

fakapulia

[Penisimani Mone]

Sami:

Na'a kuo taimi ketau ngau'unu kiai , fakafoki mai e ngaahi tokateline 'oe siasi ketau 'ahi'ahi tauhi'ii mo faka'utumauku ai, na'a lava ai ke fakaholoholo e mapakipaki moe femotumotuhi..

he koe papi oku ha koe me'a lekaleka,,,,,,,, Kakohono " uho" koe" fu'u me'a mo'oni..

---

'Ai lelei pe Sami, na'a ha'u taha mo ha taufale pea ke lele koe kae ma'u au...hahaha...'oku tau 'amanaki pe 'e toki malava ke tau matali e fehu'i 'a Wayne 'i ha ma'ala'ala atu e 'uu felekeu 'o 'etau tokateline 'o e Siasii, ka 'oku ou ki'i tokanga mo au heni foki ki he fokotu'u ne 'ave ki he konifelenisii, pea ke toki to'o aipe 'e Wayne ha'ane me'a 'okapau te ne fiema'u, pea ka 'ikai, ka mahalo 'oku 'ataa pe foki e talanoa 'ilo me'akehekehee ia heni...

..ka kuo lahi pe foki hono fa'a tukuaki'i ko e me'a fakamamonga 'a e fakamamafa papitaisoo...'osi angee, ko e fu'u me'a fakakalisitiane pe ia...kae mahalo 'oku nau papi vailahi kinautolu ki he Siasi Mamongaa pe?..., ka tau papi kitautolu ki he Siasi Haamaii fakakatoa...'o tau kehekehe aipe...

..ka ko e fakamahalo pe foki eni ia...

--

fakapulia

[Maafu Palu]

Maloo Peni

Pea maloo hono tauhi hotau 'api mo hotau ngaahi fatongia. 'Ikai ha'aku teitei veiveiua teke fai 'ekoe hot fatongia hena I Leotisia 'o toe ma'ongo'onga ange. Tangane tangata Fakapulia ma'u kai aipe fanga ki'i Manu vaivai he ama 'ae taukei.

Ka 'oku ki'i mahino ange ho'o fakamahino ko eni. Ko e papitaiso kakai lalahi 'oku 'ataa pe moia he'etau Konisitutone vakai kihe Kupu fekau 'aki Moe papitaiso.

Na'e fai pe ia 'i Tonga ni he hake Mai 'ae Lotu pea 'oku ou kei tui 'oku taau ke toe fakafoki Mai koe'uhi ke fakapapau'i'aki 'a e mahino ki ha taha hono fanau'ifo'ou ia he'ene tali 'a Kalaisi.

Ko hono mo'oni foki ko e papitaiso 'oe kakai tui Kia Kalaisi 'oku fakatohitapu pea 'oku sio pehee pe mo 'etau papi valevale. Ko 'etau 'amanaki 'e tupu hake pea fanau'ifo'ou ia ke hu ai ki he Siasi Ta'ehamai.

Ko hono fakahu 'oe kau pepee 'oku 'ikai te tau fakalea " 'Oku tau fakahu 'ae tamaiki ni ke nau hu 'o memipa kakato ta'engata pea ta'engata he Siasi  o Kalaisi". He 'oku 'ikai ke fakamalohi'i ha taha ke kau kihe Siasi.

'Oku Tau fakahu e tamaiki ki he fatongia 'oe Siasi ko hono akonekina kinautolu he ngaahi tokateline fakakalisitiani. Koe'uhi ka mahino leva ki ai 'ae akonaki 'a Kalaisi pea ai hano faingamalie ke fill ke ne ma'u 'a Kalaisi 'o ne a'usia ai 'ae Lotufehu'i.

Pea 'oku toki Lau ia 'ehe Siasi kuo memipa kakato he kuo ne fai 'e ia 'ene tu'utu'uni he funga 'ene 'ilo'i 'o Kalaisi Sisu ko hono 'Eiki mo Fakamo'ui. 'Oku 'uhinga pehee 'a e hanga 'e hetau Tokateline 'o kei fakamahu'inga'i 'ae Lotufehu'i ko 'ene toki memipa kakato ia ha taha he Siasi.

 

He na'e 'ikai tui a Uesile ki hano fakamalohi'i e kakai ke nau Siasi ka ke nau faitu'utu'uni tau'ataina ki ai.

Tukumai ai leva heni e ngaahi me'a Peni he 'oku faingamalie ange eni ia ke fakamahino ai.

Si'oto'ofaatu

[sep...@optusnet.com.au]

Malo Fakapulia " neongo 'e ki'i fakapiko eni  ki hatau kau memipa kehe. "

Hala Fakapipiko, ko e taimi laukonga pe eni .

....totonu ke fakalhilahi e taimi 'a Konifelenisi ki he ng me'a Fakatokateline..he'e kee e kau memipa tasilisili mo'enau kau Faifekau hano fakatonutonu 'e ha fu'u Sipi Tasilisili ha faifekau hh.

Kamou hoko atu mu'a ..

'I he nonga 'ae "Eiki.

----- Original Message -----

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tasil...@googlegroups.com

To:

<tasil...@googlegroups.com>

Cc:

Sent:

Mon, 14 Aug 2017 03:44:25 +1300

Subject:

Re: [tasilisili] mafai fokotu'u siasi

 Maafu Palu <maafu...@gmail.com>

Ke to'o ho tu'asila mei he memipa he Tasilisili, email ki he tasilisili-...@googlegroups.com

Ko e website 'a e Tasilisili ko e http://groups.google.com/group/tasilisili

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[sep...@optusnet.com.au]

Malo Ma'afu , " 'Oku Tau fakahu e tamaiki ki he fatongia 'oe Siasi ko hono akonekina kinautolu he ngaahi tokateline fakakalisitiani.

Ko e fakalea lelei eni, he 'oku ne fafangu e Siasi ke ta'emamohe hono fafanga fakalaumalie 'oe valevale 'o a'u ki ha'ane tangata pe fefine lahi,  ki ha'ane fili ke ne 'EIki 'aki 'a  Sisu mo'o fanau'i fo'ou.

'I he nonga 'ae 'Eiki.

----- Original Message -----

From:

tasil...@googlegroups.com

To:

"tasilisili" <tasil...@googlegroups.com>

Cc:

Sent:

Mon, 14 Aug 2017 08:44:37 +1000

Subject:

Re: [tasilisili] mafai fokotu'u siasi

 Maafu Palu <maafu...@gmail.com>

Ke to'o ho tu'asila mei he memipa he Tasilisili, email ki he tasilisili-...@googlegroups.com

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[Henry Niumeitolu]

Pen mo Maafu. koe talaloto pe 'eni na'a 'aonga, ko au na'e papi valevale he siasi Tonga tau'ataina,
2. tali 'a sisu he scripture Union 'o e 1965-66
3mali Uesiliana he 1986
4. papitaiso vailahi he faifekau 'evangelio ko Peter mei Kanata he 1982,( koe toko 40 nai pea koe kau ngaue fakapule'anga moe kau neesi). 5 5. Ka Koe me'a malie 'eni 'i he 2017 koe toki mahino ia kiate au e tohi papitaiso 'a e Sutt, 'i he 'eku muimui'i e papitaiso 'o e kau pepe he ta'u ni ne liliu hake 'eku fakakaukau 'ou pehe tamani, koe "tui", koe fo'i afo malohi taha ia 'oku ne fakauho mo faka- tefito ki ai 'a e foaki 'ehe mat'u'a 'a 'enau fanau ki he Siasi pea ko e tokateline 'oku nau tui kiai koe pekia moe toetu'u moe ha'ele hke moe toe foki mai 'a Sisu etc. ta ha fo'i tokateline fonu mo mahake he koloa fakalangi,

Ta ne'ine'i ke ongo kelesiia mo kalaisiia 'a e papitaiso isa e ongo matu'a kuo na foaki ena tama ke fakatapui mo 'o hake 'ehe siasi
koe fefiohi 'a e Laumalie ma'on'oni moe Siasi he 'aho sapate 'i he katoanga papitaiso, he koe papi ia 'o e tui pikitai, moe amanaki lelei pea moe 'ofa 'Otua 'a e matu'a.
'oku hange ko Teutalonome 6, ta koe tui faith koe fu'u kelesi fakahoifua 'Otua mo'oni 'a e 'atakai malu 'o e siasi fakakolo pea moe siasi fakafonua. Ke 'a e 'Otua aipe 'a e langilangi'ia moe malo'ia.
--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 14/8/17, Maafu Palu <maafu...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [tasilisili] mafai fokotu'u siasi

To: "tasilisili" <tasil...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Monday, 14 August, 2017, 11:44

---Ko e fokotu'u fo'ou nai eni, ...i) ke

12:22-24).Ko e 'uhinga foki ia hono fokotu'u

mo fakamamafa'i 'e hotau Siasi 'a e
Lotufehu'i 'i he'etau Tokateliine, ko e taimi ia
ke toki fakahu ai 'a e tokotaha ki he Siasi
Ta'ehamai, he kuo ne ma'u 'a Kalaisi Sisu ko

hono 'Eiki mo Fakamo'ui.---Malo Ma'afu, pea neu 'osi lave pe ki

heni 'i mu'a ange, pea mahalo te ta kehekehe pe
heni:Ko
e taha nai e misleading definition motu'a e SUTT
membership ko e....Full membership by confirmation (Lotu
Fehu'i)...'a ia, kapau 'oku toki full
membership he Lotu Fehu'ii, kae haa leva e papitaisoo
ia?...membership vaeua?....membership fakaeneene?....memipa
fanongo pe?...etc...'o fa'a tupu heni ha'atau
fa'a sio ma'ama'a ki hotau
papitaisoo, 
Kiate au...'oku 'osi full SUTT
membership at baptism,,,neongo ai hono fa'a kei ui ia
tokua ko e "memipa fanongo"...ko e confirmation
'o e Lotu Fehu'ii ko e confirmation nai ia 'o e
faith ne tau tala''ofa ki ai he papitaisoo...pea
'oku pau foki mo'o nautolu 'a e ngaahi koloa
fakalaumalie 'oku tu'u he kovinanitee, 'oka nau
ka fai 'amui hono ngaahi tu'utu'uni......kae 'ikai ko ha
confirmation ia 'o e full SUTT

membership..----Ma'afu:Ko e fanau'ifo'ou 'i he tui kia

fe/mahino/'akii...---i) 'Oku ou ongo'i 'oku ke

'ange 'ekoe ki he papitaiso 'a e mafai fakahu ki
he Siasi Ta'ehamai 'o Kalaisi, 
'Oku ou mahalo heni, 'oku ke fakakaukau
kou u foaki 'e au heni ki he papitaisoo 'a e mafai
fakahuu leva ki Hevani mo e Mo'ui
Ta'engataa?..."oiaau ee!...kataki 'alaa,
'oku 'ikai 'aupito. 'Oku ou tui mo au ki ai,
'oku 'ikai malava 'e ha ouau fakasiasi ke ne
foaki mola e Mo'ui Ta'engataa ki hano memipa, ka ko
Kalaisi pe. Pea ka kuo faka'uhinga heni 'a e
"Siasi Ta'ehamai/ 'o Kalaisii" ko e
ultimate Hevani ia mo e mo'ui ta'engataa, pea mou
kataki, 'oku 'ikai ko 'eku 'uhingaa ia
henii.
Mahalo 'e fu'u loloa ke tau toe fai
heni e tipeiti motu'a talu mei mu'a kau ki he
visible vs/above/under/either or/both and/etc invisible

church, neongo 'oku kei hiki tohi pehe e 'i

he'etau tokatelinee/Fehu'i mo e Tali 'a
e SUTT...ka 'oku ou 'uhinga 'i he
"siasi haamaii" ki he kakai kotoa 'oku kau ki
he ngaahi siasi fakakalisitianee (e.g. Katolika
Loma, SUTT, STOT, SOT, MAAMA FO"OU, TUTONE, Uniting,
UMC, etc)....pea 'uhinga 'a e "siasi
ta'ehaa/ 'o Kalaisii" ki he kakai kotoa kuo tui
talu mei he kamata'anga 'o fai mai,.. 'Oku
'ikai nai ko ha ongo siasi kehekehe eni 'e ua, ka ko
ha ongo vakai kehekehe fakatokateline pe ki he Siasi pe
'e ONE... pea 'oku ne/na fakatou kei 'i mamani
pe 'o kei talitali ki he Fakamaau Lahi...
e.g. Fehu'i Mo

e Tali Uaa, KO E SIASII, pp 562, Ko e ha 'a e
Siasi Haamai mo e Siasi Ta'ehaamai?Ko e Siasi Haamaii ko e

kakai kotoa 'oku kau ki he Siasi Fakakalisitianee: ko e
Siasi Ta'ehaamaii ko e kakai kotoa kuo tui talu mei he

kamata'angaa.3. Ko e Siasii ko e
taha'i me'a [ONE] ko aa?Ko e Siasi

Ta'ehaamaii ko e taha'i me'a 'ia Kalaisi, ka
ko e Siasi Haamaii 'oku ai hono faikehekehe 'i
tu'a.
...'a ia 'oku 'ikai ke fai ia
'i he Tohitapu mo e Tokateline hotau
Siasi.
Mo'oni 'aupito pe mo eni, 'okapau
'oku faka'uhinga'i 'a e papitaisoo ki he
"Siasi Ta'ehaa 'o Kalaisi," tokua ko e
fakahuu leva ia ki Hevani mo e mo'ui
ta'engataa...KAAA,... 'oku
fai/fekau'i foki e papitaisoo ia 'i he Tohitapuu...
mo e Tokateline hotau siasii...KOE'UHI KO E HAA?...neu
'osi lave ki ai mei he tohitapu, tokateline,

ordinance...e.g."KO E FAI 'O E

SAKALAMENITI KO E PAPITAISO"...pp
237.. "'Oku
tau fakahuu 'a e tamasi'i ni ki he siasi 'o
Kalaisi, [Siasi Ta'ehaa?...One, Holy, Catholic &
Apostolic, pe SUTT?] koe'uhi ke akonekina ia 'i he
ng. tokateline mo e ng. to'onga 'o e lotu
fakaKalisitiane..
FEHU'I MO E
TALI", .. KO E SIASI...KO E SAKALAMENITI...pp

56-58.7. Ko e

papitaiso 'o e kakai lalahi, ko e ha hono
'uhinga?'Oku
fakakau leva kinautolu ki he Siasi Haamai 'o
Kalaisii [SUTT,Katolika Loma, STOT, SOT, MAAMA
FO"OU, TUTONE, Uniting, UMC, SUTA, etc ]; pea
'oku sila'i ma'anautolu ('okapau 'oku
naau fakatomala mo'oni) 'a e ngaahi tapuaki 'o e

kovinanitee.8. 'Oku feefee

'a e kau valevale 'oku papitaisoo?'Oku nau
kau leva ki he Siasi Haamaii [SUTT?], pea 'oku
'o nautolu hono lelei 'i tu'a: pea 'oku pau
foki mo'o nautolu 'a e ngaahi koloa fakalaumalie
'oku tu'u he kovinanitee, 'oka nau ka fai
'amui hono ngaahi
tu'utu'uni...
Ko ia ai:i) 'Oku 'ikai ha lave ia heni ki ha
fakahuu/fakakau ki Hevani mo e mo'ui ta'engataa...ka

ki he siasii (haamai mo ta'ehaa) pe...ii) Ko e papitaisoo, ko e initial ordinance ia

fakatohitapu mo fakatokateline, mo sakalameniti 'a e
Lotu Fakakalisitianee katoa, 'o 'ikai ko ha toki

ouau ia 'a e Siasi Mamongaa...iii) 'Oku fakamamafa he

"fakahuu/fakakau" memipa 'a e papitaiso 'o
e Fuakava Fo'ouu, 'etau tokatelinee, mo 'etau
sakalameniti papitaisoo (kae 'ikai ko e tohi kakaii), ko
e tupu mei he tui/toetu'u 'a Kalaisii, mo e
'amanaki lelei atu ki he'ene toe ha'ele maii,...
'o tau makehe ai mei he paalutu/kamu 'a e Siuu, pe
papitaiso vai (lahi?) ki he fakatomala 'a Sione
Papitaisoo, 
...ka ko 'etau toe fakafana pe foki eni e
'uu tipeiti motu'a talu mei mu'a he Siasii...ka
'oku ou tui 'oku sai pe koe'uhi ko 'etau
'amanaki atu ke define 'e he SUTT e...membership by
census only... 
2017-08-12 19:45 GMT+13:00
hingano pakileata <pakileat...@gmail.com>:
malo e talanga si'i kau
faifekau..pea mahino mo 'aonga foki..kuo fe'unga eni
ia ke fakakakato 'eku ki'i pepa ..ueh ko e pepa ia
'a e tama ako sia'atoutai...ppea kuo 'ai ai mo

fa'a oo ako mo e fakahela hh...Poupou atu mei he

fakapulia





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fakapulia





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Ko e tu'asila ke 'ave ki ai ha'o tasilisili ko e
tasil...@googlegroups.com

Ke to'o ho tu'asila mei he memipa he Tasilisili,

[sep...@optusnet.com.au]

Malo Heneli. " koe "tui", koe fo'i afo malohi taha ia 'oku ne fakauho mo faka- tefito ki ai 'a e foaki 'ehe mat'u'a 'a 'enau fanau ki he Siasi pea ko e tokateline 'oku nau tui kiai koe pekia moe toetu'u moe ha'ele hke moe toe foki mai 'a Sisu etc. ta ha fo'i tokateline fonu mo mahake he koloa fakalangi, "

Malo e talaloto fakamafana Faifekau.

"i he nonga 'ae 'Eik.

----- Original Message -----

From:

tasil...@googlegroups.com

To:

<tasil...@googlegroups.com>

Cc:

Sent:

Sun, 13 Aug 2017 23:56:51 +0000 (UTC)

[Saulisi Mafileo]

Malo e potalanoa. Hoko atu pe he oku fai atu pe e laulau konga mei he tapa'i laine. 

sikei

email ki he tasilisili-unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

Ko e website 'a e Tasilisili ko e http://groups.google.com/group/tasilisili



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[Pauli Kienga]

Malie kau tangata e tuku mai e ngaahi 'uuni me'a ketau 'ilo kiai ki he anga 'etau fononga 'oku fai moe fekumi ki he founga ( methods ) moe 'uhinga ( means)...ka kuopau ketau ki maloloo 'o kumi ha ivi fakame'atokoni ke malohi ...ka koe fktokanga pe na'a 'iloange pe kuo paku e me'a iaaa.....kae 'ikai ma'u hono momona e......fkmonuu atu moe hufaki.......

Virus-free. www.avg.com

[Penisimani Mone]

Malo Ma'afu:

Ka 'oku ki'i mahino ange ho'o fakamahino ko eni. Ko e papitaiso kakai lalahi 'oku 'ataa pe moia he'etau Konisitutone vakai kihe Kupu fekau 'aki Moe papitaiso....

Ko hono fakahu 'oe kau pepee 'oku 'ikai te tau fakalea " 'Oku tau fakahu 'ae tamaiki ni ke nau hu 'o memipa kakato ta'engata pea ta'engata he Siasi  o Kalaisi". He 'oku 'ikai ke fakamalohi'i ha taha ke kau kihe Siasi...

---

'Oku fai pe taukave ni mo e faka'apa'apa lahi atu 'aupito kiate kimoutolu, pea fakamolemole atu kapau neu anga fakatu'a ha alea heni, pe f'i ha 'akafotunga he'etau komitii mo e Seaa he Konii...pea mo'oni 'aupito 'ene fekau keu nofo ki lalo leva... 'aah... ne ta'efaka'apa'apa fau 'e te founga fakalea mahalo...'osi, ko kimoutolu ne ongosia he ako'i au....ka ne mau fefa'uhi mo e new definition 'o e SUTT membership talu mei he Kuata, FakaVahefonua, 'o tau toki alea faka'osi ai he konii. Ko ia ne fai ai e 'oho mate he'etau fakatahaa, na'a faifai kae tali 'e he Konifelenisii e fokotu'u ni....SUTT membership by census allone. Mahalo ne 'ikai fu'u serious fau e fokotu'u ni ki he tokolahi, ka na'e fu'u ongo ia kiate au, he ka tali, pea na'a tau to'o ai foki ki tu'a e membership 'o si'i kau memipa SUTT tokolahi 'oku 'ikai te nau kau he tohi kakai , ka 'oku nau kei taukave pe he ngaahi siasi fakakalisitiane 'i he'etau tui ne fai mei ai honau papitaisoo...

Ne 'ikai teu toe lava atu ki he Konifelenisi Kakatooo he ko e taimi alea pe ia e kau ma'oni'oni, kau lotulotu pe mei he bar ke 'ofa mai 'e malava ke toe toloi e fokotu'uni ka tau toe alea ki ai 'amui he 'oku mahu'inga eni. Fai pe fakafeta'i he toki tala mai, ne loto e Konifelenisi Kakatoo ke toe toloi pe, 'i ha taukave mei he Palesiteni Malooloo mei hotau papitaisoo...foki mai aipe eni 'o kaaimumu'a atu he paenga ni, ke tau tomu'a komiti aa tautolu heni 'o lele hala mo tuki tangai atu, ki ha'atau  toe alea he fokotu'uni he kaha'u na..

Neu toki ma'u faingamalie ki mui ni 'o talanoa no si'i Faifekau e vahenga ne 'omi mei ai e fokotu'u ni, pea u 'eke ange pe ko e ha e 'uhinga ne nau fokotu'u mai ai e fokotu'u fakavalevale fakatokateline peheeo, pea mahino, ko e anga pe ia 'enau mamahi'i, e fakamamafa'i e ta'u fakakonifelenisi e Ako Fakakalisitianee ke inclusive e kakai kotoa kuo tohi kakaii, kau ai mo e kau peepee kuo te'eki papiitaisoo, he 'oku inclusive pehee mo e vahevahe ki he fo'i'ulu 'o e misinalee...mahalo ne 'ikai te nau fakatokanga'i, 'e ala to'o ai kitu'a foki mo e SUTT membership by baptism 'o e fu'u tokolahi fau 'oku 'ikai ke nau kau nautolu he SUTT census..ka 'oku nau kei mateaki pe he tui SUTT ne tau/nau papitaiso aii...tukukehe ange mo 'enau kei 'ofa mo fua fatongia mai ki he siasi haamai ne mei ai honau fakakau/fakahuu  ki he Siasi 'o Kalaisii. Ke tau manatu'i pe, kiate ua...ka 'ikai malava 'e he SUTT ke ne fakama'opo'opo fakatokateline hono kau memipaa ki he fekau fakatohitapu mo fakatokateline 'o e papitaisoo kae pipiki ki ha'ame institutional policy tohi kakai, mahalo ko e talangata'a ia ki he Tohitapuu, 'etau Tokatelinee pea na'a mo e 'Ulu 'o e Siasii...pea ko e fu'u mole lahi ia he tafa'aki kotoa pe...

Ko ia ai, ui mai e kau papi/tui  SUTT kotoa pe ne tau fakakau/fakahuu ki he siasi haamaii, pea te'eki ke nau recant e faith....UMC, Uniting, NZ Methodists, Aust Perish, SUTTA, SUTO, etc...etc...'oku 'ikai ha mapaki, tu'usi pe to'o membership he SUTT...mahalo ko e fehikitaki fakalotofale pe...'o kei fakasio 'i he 'ofa mei he loki ko ee ki he loki ko ee....pea ngaungaue atu e Konifelenisii 'o vakai si'i lotu 'a e kau memipa papi ko ee mo ee...'o 'ikai fakangatangata pe 'i hono ngaahi Vahe Fonuaa 'i muli na...he 'oku mo'oni e hingoa e fu'u toa 'oku te 'ela ai ni....'OKU TAU KEI KAU PE...

Ko ia 'oku u unga atu ai he paenga 'a Wayne...."oku 'i ai ha mafai fokotu'u siasi....?....Ke kau atu aa heni mo ha'atau Komiti Fakaikiiki 'o alea ai leva....membership by census OR by baptism?

mo e 'ofa aipe... 

fakapulia

[Pauli Kienga]

Malo Penisimani.......'oku malie fau hono laku'alofia e isiu mahu'inga ni mo fu'u pelepelengesi,pea kuo u tui ki ho'o faka'anua ke toe tolona atu e ipu ni,kae toe fai hano 'analaiso fklelei ki hano tukunga 'oku lelei mo faka'ofo'ofa ke tu'uloa,mo unga kiai e lolotonga ni moe kaha'u foki 'o fekau'aki moe memipa 'i hotau ki fungavaka..fakamalo atu ki he tokoni moe faka'ilo me'a lelei mai ke mau kau aipe he lau mo lau he kau...talamonuu atu moe hufaki.....

[Sione]

Malo e tokoni pea mahino na'e fai e feteleni kae malie kuo angiiki e matangi!!

Malo Fakapulia mo Ma'afu! Ko e hoha'a na'a tau tapuni foki 'a Hevani. Ko 'etau fakaavaava matapa kihe SUTT ko 'etau tui ko e road sign ia ki Hevani. Pea tau pae mai he papitaiso 'o fakafononga he hala fasi'i.  Mahalo 'e tokolahi e efihia he Avahuituitui.

Kae mahino ko e memipa census ko e laumalie pe 'oe pae mai pe kihe Sutt 'o sio ai kihe matapa tatau aipe.

Pea mahalo 'e kau mai he census ha motu'a na'e 'osi papi vailahi ia pe te'eki papi, kae kei fai pe SUTT hono sisina ke hao atu he matapa!

'E lava pe kena fetoka'i'aki mo fe tokanga'aki! 'A papitaiso mo census!!

Mo'oni kea 'ae taula'eiki, ko 'eku 'alu 'eni ki Ha'apai 'o tapuni e puhamate. Pehe atu e taula'eiki toulekeleka tapuni 'e koe mate kae fakaava atu 'a Heli!! Malie hua kau a'ua'u!!

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[Seer]

ka ko e mo'ui ta'engata foki, 'oku 'ikai ma'u ia 'i he papitaiso.

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[Sione]

Life or place??? Te'eki ma'u ha me'a ia he papi!! Ko e siasi hamai pe 'oku ma'u. Nofonofo falemahaki aipe kihe judgment day!! Hh malo vavanga 

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[Maafu Palu]

Hhhh Peni,

Malo mu'a e taukave. Pea 'oku ou tui 'oku mahino pe 'a e me'a 'oku tau tu'u ai. Papi 'o hu ki he Siasi Hamai, 'i he 'amanaki te ne tupu hake 'o tali 'a Sisu pea Hu ki he Siasi Ta'ehamai 'o memipa kakato ai pea fononga ai ki he mo'ui ta'engata. 

Ka ko e mo'oni, 'oku fai 'a e hoha'a 'i he taimi ni, ki he 'omai he ta'u kotoa pe, 'a e Tohi Kakai ki he Konifelenisi (talu eni mei he 2012), 'a e kei tokolahi ange pe 'a e kau Fanongo te'eki hu, 'i he kau Lotufehu'i. Pea na'a ku ongo'i na'e hanga atu ki ai 'a e fokotu'u na'e 'omi ki he Konifelenisi Vava'u, ke lau 'a e fakahu ki he Lautohi Fakasapate, ko e fakahu Lotufehu'i ia 'o hotau kakai. 

Sai pe ko ena, 'oku toe tukuatu Peni, ke fai ki ai ha'amou lau 'i ho'omou Department of Theology mei Sia'atoutai. Pea 'oku ou tui 'e toki 'ohake ai ki he Kuata, Fakavahefonua pea a'utaki mai ki he Koni 'o e ta'u kaha'u mo ha'amou fale'i lelei. 

Ka na'a ku kau he fiefia he fokotu'u ko eni. Ko 'eku fakakaukau atu, ko 'ene mavahe pe 'etau fanau 'atautolu mei he Lautohi Fakasapate, pea 'oku 'ikai toe ai ha ivi ia 'o e matu'a ke feinga'i'aki ki he Potungaue Akofakakalisitiani. He ko e taimi lahi, 'oku 'alu atu e fanau ia 'o hu ki Toloa mo Kolisi Fefine 'a ia 'oku ai 'enau polokalama kehe 'anautolu (pea 'oku ou tui 'oku taau ke fakama'opo'opo mai mo e ongo Kolisi ko eni, 'etau fanau mo honau tu'unga fakalaumalie).

Ka 'okapau 'e fakataumu'a 'a e silapa Lautohi Fakasapate ia ki hono ako'i fakalotufehu'i 'etau fanau ('o fakamamafa he Fehu'i mo e Tali mo 'etau ngaahi Tokateline 'oku 'asi 'i he Tohi Konisitutone), pea 'oku ou tui 'e lava ke tau fokotu'u ai 'i he kakato 'a e Lautohi Fakasapate, ha Katoanga tatau mo e "Tali 'eiki" 'a e Katolika. 'A ia ko hono faka'ilonga'i ia kuo memipa kakato 'etau fanau na'e papitaiso, 'i he Siasi 'o Kalaisi. Kae katoanga'i ke faka'ilonga'i kiate kinautolu 'etau mahu'inga'ia he'enau a'usia 'a e laakanga ko ia.

'Oku ou ongo'i te tau faitotonu ange ai 'a e Siasi, mo e matu'a, ki he'etau tukupaa 'oku fai 'i he papitaiso 'etau fanau: "'Oku tau fakahu 'a e tamaiki ni ki he Siasi 'o Kalaisi ke akonekina ai 'i he ngaahi Tokateline 'a e Lotu Fakakalisitiani". He ko e Lautohi Fakasapate 'oku taau ke kakano'aki 'a hono ako'i 'o 'etau ngaahi Tokateline Fakakalisitiani ki he'etau fanau.

Kaekehe, 'oku ou ongo'i 'oku kei vaivai pe 'a e tokanga ko eni. Ko ia 'oku ou fa'a kole atu au ki he ngaahi famili 'o e Siasi, ke tau fai 'ekitautolu hono lau 'o e Tohitapu 'i 'api he Lotu famili, 'o tau akonekina 'etau fanau ai ki he ngaahi Tokateline 'a e Lotu Fakakalisitiani.

Peni, ko e kole atu pe, ke ke lotua 'etau Koni pea ke toe ha'u pe ke tau taalanga he loto Konii. 'Oku ou ongo'i ko e feitu'u lelei taha ia ke ongona ai 'e he kakai 'o e Siasi, 'a 'etau ngaahi fakakaukau ki he'etau ngaue pea mo e anga 'etau fokotu'utu'u ki ai, 'a hono fakapotopoto mo hono fakavalevale.

Si'oto'ofaatu,

Ma'afu Palu

Loving husband of but one wife Elizabeth; Father of Tevita, Freddie and Pate

"Looking to Jesus" - Anonymous 1st Century Preacher (aka "Hebrews")