Re: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga o hoku tofi'a/'inasi?

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Ben Mysterymann

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Jan 8, 2010, 12:23:03 AM1/8/10
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Political theology,  Economic theology... ??? ko hono fakalea totonu ko hono ngaue'aki e teolosia ke fakafefeka 'aki ha mafai fakapolitikale 'o ha taha pe fa'ahi fakapolitikale... pe koe ngaue'aki e teolosia ki he fakatupu  pa'anga...  eg. ko hono ngaue 'aki e fakakaukau ke fakafefeka'i 'ae pule 'a ha tu'i 'aki hono fakamalohi'i 'oe kakai ke nau kau ki fa'ahinga tui 'oku tu'uaki'i 'e he taki fakapolitikale ko ia... tatau heni e kalisitiane moe mosilemi...  pea kuo ngaue'aki 'ehe ngaahi pisinisi lalahi 'i mamani 'ae ngaahi principles fakakalisitiane ki he commitment 'ae kau employees 'o lelei ange ai e lele 'ae ngaahi pisinisi... vahe lahi aie kau CEOs..... hehehe..

From: Daphne Taukolonga <sioelina...@yahoo.com.au>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 5:35:55 PM
Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga ko hoku tofi'a/'inasi?

Misiteli
 
Kataki ó fakamahino mai ange á e konga ko éni í hoó fakamatala.  Hangee kiate au óku ke taukapoí é koe naé íkai ke mei tuútuúni 'a Tupou I ke tamateí á e fuú kakai ko éni óku fufui'í íhe hisitolia naé tamateí koe fale'í á e kau faifekau naánau óange á e lotu ki Tonga? 
 
Óku mahino mai leva koe kau faifekau ko ia naánau ósi lele mai pe kinautolu íhe Teolosia Ékonomika moe Teolosia Politika ka naé íkai ke ola ologylelheei?  Hangee kiate au í hoó fakamatala ko kinautolu óku tui koe ongo principles éna tena hanga 'o solova á e palopalema ó Tonga fakaékonimíka óku teéki ke aú atu énau fakatotolo kia Tupou I mo éne kau fale'í faifekau?
 
daphne 

--- On Wed, 6/1/10, Ben Mysterymann <tonga...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Ben Mysterymann <tonga...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga ko hoku tofi'a/'inasi?
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Received: Wednesday, 6 January, 2010, 8:16 AM

kapau 'oku tala atu 'eha kau papalngi'oku 'i ai ha me'a koe political theology... tala ange koe fakaninimo  'oe enlightenment.. and figure that out... 'e anga fefe ho'o fahi e teolosia politikale, moe teolosia economic etc.. lolotonga ko ia koe tangata pe fefine 'oku taha pe... te tau fakavahevahe'i 'enau ngaahi mo'ui ko 'eni.... koe vale ngangau ia 'e motu'a Patele koee pe koe faifekau ne hingoa ko  kou gi tou.. you think there fore you exist.. to'o ai 'ae 'otua mei he ekuasoni 'oe mo'ui faka kalisitiane...   ka nau toki fahifahi kitautolu he ngaahi senituli.. koe 'uhinga ia ne pehe ai 'e Tupou 1  'oku sai pe hono tamate'i 'a si'i kainga 'o Hule, ngele'ia, pea mo pea.. 'oku 'ikai ko TUPOU 1 ne fehalaaki  koe kau misinale .... nau toki faakatonutonu atu 'i  he matapaa ki hevani... BUT I KNOW THIS ONE THING HE A GOD OF LOVE.... if choose otherwise  that is our palopalemo....  he is waiting for us to say sorry!!!

From: Sepesi H Piukala <sep...@optusnet.com.au>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, January 5, 2010 6:39:06 PM
Subject: RE: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga ko hoku tofi'a/'inasi?

Seni malo e moúi malo mo e fakamaama.
 
 
 
 
Sepesi H. Piukala
 
Exodus 2:6 Then he said, "I am the God of your Father, the God of Abraham, the God of Issac and the God of Jacob."
*****************************************************************************************************************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: tasil...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tasil...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of seni taniela
Sent: Tuesday, 5 January 2010 4:26 AM
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga ko hoku tofi'a/'inasi?

1 The priests the Levites, even all the tribe of Levi, shall have no portion nor inheritance with Israel: they shall eat the offerings of Jehovah made by fire, and his inheritance. 2 And they shall have no inheritance among their brethren: Jehovah is their inheritance, as he hath spoken unto them.
Deut 18:1-2 (ASV)
"'E 'ikai ma'u 'e he kau Livai taula'eiki, 'io 'a e matakali Livai kotoa, ha 'inasi pe tofi'a fakataha mo ha'a Isileli: te nau kai 'a e ngaahi feilaulau tutu 'a Sihova mo hono 'inasi. Ka 'e 'ikai hano tofi'a 'i he lotolotonga 'o hono kainga: KO SIHOVA PEE HONO TOFI'AA, 'o hangee ko 'ene folofola kiai"
Teut. 18:1-2
 
Hangehangee ko e motoo 'oku fa'o ai e deep profound political theology.
 
1) Hangehangee ko e borrow 'e Tupou 1 e fakakaukauu 'o 'etau motoo meia Teutalonome.  'Oku ne fakataha'i e theology and politics.  Mahalo na'a ne fakakaukau he is both a political leader and also a levite.  Ko hono ui 'o  e 'Otua ko hono tofi'a 'oku fakafolofola pea mohu
 
2) Kapau 'oku tau palopalema'ia he hangee 'oku individualistic pea singular e "HOKU" ka 'oku fit in pee ia mo e political system..pea kapau te tau feinga ke liliu e HOKU ke  HOTAU, tau feinga fakataha mo e kau Temoo ke liliu mei he monarchy ki ha pule fakatemokalati.
 
3)'I he taiami tatau, kapau ko e faka'amu ko e moto..hangee ia ha visone...ke mo'oni e fakakaukauu he mo'ui 'a e Tongaa kotoa, taa 'e lava lelei ke hoko tau lotu ke mo'oni e motoo he mo'ui fakafo'ituituii 'o hangee ko 'etau ngaue'aki e Same 23...Ko hoku (HOTAU) tauhi 'a Sihova..'Oku 'ikai ko e moto pee ma'a Tupou ka ki he Tonga kotoa--keu lau 'e au Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga ko hoku tofi'a
 
4) Me'a nii 'oku mo'oni e moto 'a Amelika "IN GOD WE TRUST" 'i he mo'ui e kakai kotoa 'o Amelika???'Ikai.  Kapau 'e liliu ki he Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga ko hotau tofi'a, me'a nii 'e toe mo'oniange???'Ikai.  Ka 'oku lelei ke hoko e moto pee visone ia e Tonga? 'Ikai hano kovi
 
5)  Kapau te tau fakatonulea  e 'uhinga e "tofi'a ki a Sihova" ko e hoko 'a Sihova ko e mo'ui'anga.  Ta he'ikai teu palopalema'ia he ui 'a e 'Otuaa mo Tonga ko hoku mo'ui'anga (tofi'a)..
 
6) mei he fakakaukau tofi'a mo e inasi ihe folofola i 'olungaa, mahalo 'oku lelei ange pee tofi'aa
 
 


From: Sepesi H Piukala <sep...@optusnet.com.au>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 3 January, 2010 4:12:33 PM
Subject: RE: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga ko hoku tofi'a/'inasi?

Óku 'iai e puipuituá lelei ó e fakalea ko eni óku fai ki ai e tokanga "ko
hota ínasi", ko e tutu ó nukuálofa ko e feingatau maólunga ia ki he liliu.

Ne tauí é Tupou 1 úluaki e fonua óne claim e meá kotoa maána pea óku kei í
he Konisitutone áe feingatau á Tupou 1, ko e puipuituá lelei ia ó éne
tukufonua, Ótua mo Tonga ko hoku Tofiá.

Óku totonu pe ke kau he liliu fakapolitikale áe liliu ó e moto ó ka kuo taau
ke liliu, pe lahi hono ngaahi kovi ó e fakalea ki he kakai ó e fonua pehe ki
hono haáhaá ó e claim tokotaha é he tuí á e Ótua mo Tonga ko hono tofiá.

takamuli




Sepesi H. Piukala
Ph: +61401 590 917
Email: sep...@optusnet.com.au

Exodus 2:6 Then he said, "I am the God of your Father, the God of Abraham,
the God of Issac and the God of Jacob."
****************************************************************************
*************************************************************




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seni taniela

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Jan 8, 2010, 5:45:43 AM1/8/10
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Ben Mysterymann <tonga...@yahoo.com>

Political theology,  Economic theology... ??? ko hono fakalea totonu ko hono ngaue'aki e teolosia ke fakafefeka 'aki ha mafai fakapolitikale 'o ha taha pe fa'ahi fakapolitikale... pe koe ngaue'aki e teolosia ki he fakatupu  pa'anga...  eg. ko hono ngaue 'aki e fakakaukau ke fakafefeka'i 'ae pule 'a ha tu'i 'aki hono fakamalohi'i 'oe kakai ke nau kau ki fa'ahinga tui 'oku tu'uaki'i 'e he taki fakapolitikale ko ia... tatau heni e kalisitiane moe mosilemi...  pea kuo ngaue'aki 'ehe ngaahi pisinisi lalahi 'i mamani 'ae ngaahi principles fakakalisitiane ki he commitment 'ae kau employees 'o lelei ange ai e lele 'ae ngaahi pisinisi... vahe lahi aie kau CEOs..... hehehe..
==================================================
Mahalo pee Peni Tangaamisiteli 'oku ki'i too kitu'a e lau fakamahamahalo ko 'ena 'i 'olungaa. Na'aku pehee pee 'e 'osi pe ho'o haupapa kimu'a eku ngaue'aki e ongo fo'ilea ko 'enaa pea ngata ai ka ko 'ena 'oku kei hokohoko atu pee.
 
Feefee ke ke 'uluaki define mai e political theology pea ke toki fai e tukuhifo'i e fakakaukau kuou tuku atuu. 
 
Abusing of political theology or politicizing of political theology is totally different from the neutral and amoral existence of the concept as a tool to be utilized in the field of political thought.
 
Mei he Oxford Concise Dictionary ko e 'uhinga e Political theology. A Christian concern to explore the implications of theology for political life and thought. 'Oku ai dark side of political thology i hono hisitoliaa kae hangee ko dark side e fo'i lea "siasi" he 'ikai 'uhinga te tau fakapuna kitu'a e fo'ilea siasi mei he senituli 21
 
Ne 'omi 'ehe 'Eiki e faingamalie keu ako e ki'i me'i politiki he malumalu e faifekau Prebyterian 'oku Ph.D he political Science pea to e M.Div pea ko e kamata'anga ene lecture kotoa ko e lau e veesi folofola pea lotu....pea 'oku ne fakahoa e ngaahi e theories he politikale mo e tohitapu and he uses that term political theology throughout the year etc.
 
Ko ho'o lave ki he economic theology ko e fananga ia 'e taha. 
 
'I he 2008 ne 'omi 'e he 'Eikii e faingamalie keu kau atu ki he seminaa he Univesiti Columbia ko e ongo tama mei he va'a ekonomika e univesiti Cambridge ne na ha'u 'o introduce 'ena theory he pisinisii.  Neongo ne 'ikai ke na ngaue'aki ha fo'ilea fakalotu ka kiate au ko e Kalisitiane, ko e 'u principle fakalotu na'a na ngaue'aki.  na'a na gaue'aki e lea ko e social, spiritual capital etc. (Ko e ngaahi me'a 'oku lave kiai 'a tv. , oku laine taha mai moe theory e ongo tamaa.)   Pea u 'ohovale he'ena fakamamafa'i lolotonga e seminaa  e private property e kakai e fonuaa ke alleviate e masivaa(malo Tupou 1).  Pe ko hato ki'i motu'a fale pee konga kelekele etc..that's the starting point.  Kaikehe 'i he 'osi 'ena seminaa na'a ku 'alu atu 'o fakatalanoa peau 'ilo koe ongo Kalisitane one of them is an ordained minister he Siasi Ingilani...pea ko kinaua neu fanongo mei ai e fo'ilea ko e business/economic theology. 
 
 from the definition of political theology I figure out that business theology is simply about exploring the implications of theology for business life and thought.  ka ke ako ki he politiki you will definitely deal with political philosophy...ko e me'a tatau ki he history of economic thought..sai te tau tuku pee ki he kau filosefa 'o ono'ahoo ke nau pule'i e fakakaukau e politikii mo e pisinisii???pea te tau kumi pee 'oku ai ha lau e theology ki he politikii?
 
'i he'ene pehee leva, ko ho'o lau 'i 'olungaa 'oku hee mama'o, and it's a strawman argument...you brought up a caricature of political theology and whipped it as if it is the real issue.
 
Malo ho'o haupapa 'a Tupou 1 mo e kau misinalee, ka ko 'eku faka'ataa e hisitolia e politiki i Tongaa, fakatatau ki he maama fakaako mo fakalotu e senituli 18-19 teu pehee Tupou 1 is my political hero laka mama'o he kau politiki e ngaahi 'aho ni...simply because he accomplished more for the "common good" than these well-learned politicians of the 21st century...
 
'Ikai ngata aii, ko ho'o fakamaau'i e agafai 'a Tupou 1 mei he tohitapu ko e political theology ia...'oku ke me'angaue'aki e me'afua fakalotu ke fua'aki e me'a fakapolitikale.  Koe'uhii ko e modern political science ne kamata mai e Machiavelli 'oku totally justify e using force to keep your power...I can argue that Tupou 1's action is justified as political leader...a machiavelian..'aee 'oku lolotonga hoko he politiki 'i Tonga he 'aho ni "Either you use force to eliminate your enemy" or "You keep you friends close, but keep your enemies closer" --that's modern political science without religious moral judgment...Fakatokanga'i e va'inga fakapolitikale 'a Tupou V 'ene disarm e kau Temoo...ko Teisina antimonarchy ena kuo minisitaa!!! I wonder pee 'e kei tu'umalohi ai pee ki he fakamaau totonuu pee 'e tokanga ki hono lakangaa na'a mole faingamalie ki he kapangakoo!!
 
toe fakatokanga'i na'e fa'u e moto "mixing of religion and politics" after he accomplished his political goal--to unify Tonga..
 
 kaikehe, kapau te tau sio fakalotu ki hono piokalafii te au lava 'o sio ne 'iai e liliu loto he'ene mo'uii pea kou tui ne ne lave he fakamo'ui hotau 'Eiki ko Sisu Kalaisi.  Na'a 'oku mo'oni 'a Churchill, "Sometimes we need to use evil to protect the good"

seni taniela

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Jan 8, 2010, 6:00:04 AM1/8/10
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Ben Mysterymann <tonga...@yahoo.com>
pea kuo ngaue'aki 'ehe ngaahi pisinisi lalahi 'i mamani 'ae ngaahi principles fakakalisitiane ki he commitment 'ae kau employees 'o lelei ange ai e lele 'ae ngaahi pisinisi... vahe lahi aie kau CEOs..... hehehe..
================================
Ko e falekai Chick Fil A, 'oku 'ikai ava he Sapatee, ka 'i hono faka'eke'eke he FOX news  e founder( a committed Christian and sunday school teacher) fakataha mo hono foha ko e CEO ia he taimi nii...talu e fokotu'u e pisinisii moe tupu he ta'u kotoa pea ko e mei he 2008-2009 ne tupu peseti 10 enau pisinisii neongo e uku e ekonomikaa....he ko hai 'oku fie fokotu'u pisinisi ke mate??pea kapau oku utilize ehe kau ta'elotu e Christians principles ki he'enau pisinisii, is it good?? or is it bad?? 'uhinga ia feinga ke 'omi e business theology ke feinga'i e kau CEO vahe lahii ke nau sio 'oku kovi 'enau me'a 'oku faii kia kinautolu as individuals but to the business and the whole economy

Daphne Taukolonga

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Jan 8, 2010, 7:24:50 PM1/8/10
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Seni mo Misiteli
 
Misiteli, na'ake pehee, 'na'e kalusefai 'e mamani 'a Sisu koe Theologian'.
 
Koe ako'i formal 'o e  Mangement & Leadership 'o e ngaahi organisations, tatau pe 'a e public moe private sector 'ihe Uesite 'oku nau ngaue 'aki 'a e ngaahi philosophy tatau pe 'oku ngaue'aki 'ihe mala'e ako fakateolosia, mala'e ako psychology, education, moe ngaahi mala'e ako kehe ki hono develop 'a e ngaahi models moe theories 'o 'ikai ngata pe 'i hano 'explore' pe fakatupu ha fa'ahinga products pe services 'o fakatatau kihe fiema'u, ka 'oku kau ai mo hono re-invent 'a e ngaahi products pe services 'e toe lelei ange.  'Oku 'ikai koha language fo'ou 'ena ia, 'oku lolotonga follow pe 'a e ngaahi discipline kehe kae tautefito kihe ako faka-pisinisi 'ihe ngaahi theolosia fakakalaisi.  
 
Koe palopalema koe 'ikai ke ma'u 'a e appropriate skills, ka 'e toki lava 'o ma'u ia 'okapau 'e fai ha ako ki ai.  Koe 'uhinga 'ia 'oku vahe lau miliona ai 'a e kau CEO. 
 
'Oku totonu ke 'omai 'etau ongo teolosia, Sisu Tonga moe Sisu koe Haua 'o ngungu ke moluu he koe teka 'a maa momoko, pea 'oku fa'o 'ia kinaua 'a e 'Otua mo Tonga ko hoku tofi'a.
 
 
daphne 


--- On Fri, 8/1/10, seni taniela <seni...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

From: seni taniela <seni...@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga o hoku tofi'a/'inasi?
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
--
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Ben Mysterymann

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Jan 9, 2010, 4:15:50 AM1/9/10
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This is nice bro...  'oku define e tokoni ia ki he poor mei he .. fekau koe... "'oua 'e kaiha'a"...  'oku 'ikai ke define ia mei he kaiha'a ke lahi kae toki fakafoki atu charitable work...   ko ho'o setesi faka'osi 'oku make me sick... teke loto ke tatau hao foha ha'ane fakapo... lolotonga ko ia 'oku ke 'ilo'i 'oku lahi pe e ngaahi faingamalie ke reedeem ai....  kapau ne  allow 'ehe 'otua hono foha ke mate ki he mo'oni.. pea ne fakaoli 'aki e pa'anga... hange ko hono to'o mai mei he ngutu e ika ke totongi 'aki 'ene tukuhau.... pea koe pa'anga na'e fakatau 'aki ia 'e sutasi... bro give me something of your own rather  your professors...   koe 'uhinga hono ako'i kitautolu ke tau lava 'o fakakaukau  rather  ke tau hange ha ngaahi kokii... 
 
tell you what 'oku 'ikai keu tokanga au ki lau 'ae kau filosefa na'a nau ako'i... he koe 'uhinga ia 'e nau 'ako'i au keu lava 'o fai pe 'eku fakakaukau.. koe hallmark ia 'oe me'a koe formal education....   'ai mai ho'o lau... tukutu atu ho'o kau  faiako he kuo lava honau  fatongia.....  'oku  'ikai ha me'a koe political pe economic theology!! kohono use pe 'oe 'otua moe kalisitiane ke tu'umalie ai e kau ma'ume'a.... mo powerful ai e kau ma'u mafai.... sio kia kalaisi mo 'ene mo'ui..!!
 From: seni taniela <seni...@yahoo.com.au>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 3:45:43 AM  Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga o hoku tofi'a/'inasi?
otongik
Ben Mysterymann <tonga...@yahoo.co
Political theology,  Economic theology... ??? ko hono fakalea totonu ko hono ngaue'aki e teolosia ke fakafefeka 'aki ha mafai fakapolitikale 'o ha taha pe fa'ahi fakapolitikale... pe koe ngaue'aki e teolosia ki he fakatupu  pa'anga...  eg. ko hono  kau ma'u mafaingaue 'aki e fakakaukau ke fakafefeka'i 'ae pule 'a ha tu'i 'aki hono fakamalohi'i 'oe kakai ke nau kau ki fa'ahinga tui 'oku tu'uaki'i 'e he taki fakapolitikale ko ia... tatau heoonauatoaiako he kkuo uo lava hlu keni e kalisitiane moe mosilemi...  pea kuo ngaue'aki 'ehe ngaahi pisinisi lalahi 'i mamani 'ae ngaahi principles fakakalisitiane ki he commitment 'ae kau employees 'o lelei ange ai e lele 'ae ngaahi pisinisi... vahe lahi aie kau CEOs..... hehehe..ick
==================================================so
Mahalo pee Peni Tangaamisiteli 'oku ki'i too kitu'a e lau fakamahamahalo ko 'ena 'i 'olungaa. Na'aku pehee pee 'e 'osi pe ho'o haupapa kimu'a eku ngaue'aki e ongo fo'ilea ko 'enaa pea ngata ai ka ko 'ena 'oku kei hokohoko atu pee.
 
Feefee ke ke 'uluaki define mai e political theology pea ke toki fai e tukuhifo'i e fakakaukau kuou tuku atuu. 
 
Abusing of political theology or politicizing of political theology is totally different from the neutral and amoral existence of the concept as a tool to be utilized in the field of political thought.
 
Mei he Oxford Concise Dictionary ko e 'uhinga e Political theology. A Christian concern to explore the implications of theology for political life and thought. 'Oku ai dark side of political thology i hono hisitoliaa kae hangee ko dark side e fo'i lea "siasi" he 'ikai 'uhinga te tau fakapuna kitu'a e fo'ilea siasi mei he senituli 21
 
Ne 'omi 'ehe 'Eiki e faingamalie keu ako e ki'i me'i politiki he malumalu e faifekau Prebyterian 'oku Ph.D he political Science pea to e M.Div pea ko e kamata'anga ene lecture kotoa ko e lau e veesi folofola pea lotu....pea 'oku ne fakahoa e ngaahi e theories he politikale mo e tohitapu and he uses that term political theology throughout the year etc.
 
Ko ho'o lave ki he economic theology ko e fananga ia 'e taha. 
 
'I he 2008 ne 'omi 'e he 'Eikii e faingamalie keu kau atu ki he seminaa he Univesiti Columbia ko e ongo tama mei he va'a ekonomika e univesiti Cambridge ne na ha'u 'o introduce 'ena theory he pisinisii.  Neongo ne 'ikai ke na ngaue'aki ha fo'ilea fakalotu ka kiate au ko e Kalisitiane, ko e 'u principle fakalotu na'a na ngaue'aki.  na'a na gaue'aki e lea ko e social, spiritual capital etc. (Ko e ngaahi me'a 'oku lave kiai 'a tv. , oku laine taha mai moe theory e ongo tamaa.)   Pea u 'ohovale he'ena fakamamafa'i lolotonga e seminaa  e private property e kakai e fonuaa ke alleviate e masivaa(malo Tupou 1).  Pe ko hato ki'i motu'a fale pee konga kelekele etc..that's the starting point.  Kaikehe 'i he 'osi 'ena seminaa na'a ku 'alu atu 'o fakatalanoa peau 'ilo koe ongo Kalisitane one of them is an ordained minister he Siasi Ingilani...pea ko kinaua neu fanongo mei ai e fo'ilea ko e business/economic theology. 
 
 from the definition of political theology I figure out that business theology is simply about exploring the implications of theology for business life and thought.  ka ke ako ki he politiki you will definitely deal with political philosophy...ko e me'a tatau ki he history of economic thought..sai te tau tuku pee ki he kau filosefa 'o ono'ahoo ke nau pule'i e fakakaukau e politikii mo e pisinisii???pea te tau kumi pee 'oku ai ha lau e theology ki he politikii?
 
'i he'ene pehee leva, ko ho'o lau 'i 'olungaa 'oku hee mama'o, and it's a strawman argument...you brought up a caricature of political theology and whipped it as if it is the real issue.
 
Malo ho'o haupapa 'a Tupou 1 mo e kau misinalee, ka ko 'eku faka'ataa e hisitolia e politiki i Tongaa, fakatatau ki he maama fakaako mo fakalotu e senituli 18-19 teu pehee Tupou 1 is my political hero laka mama'o he kau politiki e ngaahi 'aho ni...simply because he accomplished more for the "common good" than these well-learned politicians of the 21st century...
 
'Ikai ngata aii, ko ho'o fakamaau'i e agafai 'a Tupou 1 mei he tohitapu ko e political theology ia...'oku ke me'angaue'aki e me'afua fakalotu ke fua'aki e me'a fakapolitikale.  Koe'uhii ko e modern political science ne kamata mai e Machiavelli 'oku totally justify e using force to keep your power...I can argue that Tupou 1's action is justified as political leader...a machiavelian..'aee 'oku lolotonga hoko he politiki 'i Tonga he 'aho ni "Either you use force to eliminate your enemy" or "You keep you friends close, but keep your enemies closer" --that's modern political science without religious moral judgment...Fakatokanga'i e va'inga fakapolitikale 'a Tupou V 'ene disarm e kau Temoo...ko Teisina antimonarchy ena kuo minisitaa!!! I wonder pee 'e kei tu'umalohi ai pee ki he fakamaau totonuu pee 'e tokanga ki hono lakangaa na'a mole faingamalie ki he kapangakoo!!
 
toe fakatokanga'i na'e fa'u e moto "mixing of religion and politics" after he accomplished his political goal--to unify Tonga..
 
 kaikehe, kapau te tau sio fakalotu ki hono piokalafii te au lava 'o sio ne 'iai e liliu loto he'ene mo'uii pea kou tui ne ne lave he fakamo'ui hotau 'Eiki ko Sisu Kalaisi.  Na'a 'oku mo'oni 'a Churchill, "Sometimes we need to use evil to protect the good"
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seni taniela

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Jan 9, 2010, 6:32:44 AM1/9/10
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Ben Mysterymann tonga...@yahoo.com

 

Peni talanoa he issue...kae tuku e tau sinoo mo e fakamaa....ta kamata mei he definition...every conversation should start from the first act of the mind--i.e understanding

 

Teu toe 'ai atu ko e 'uhinga e Political theology mei he tikisinale okisifooti--. A Christian concern to explore the implications of theology for political life and thought pea ko e me'a tatau pee  'e apply he business...ko e feinga ke redeem politics and business by seeking what would Jesus/Bible say.

 

is there such thing as "Chritian concern to explore the implications of theology for political life or business life"?? 'Io pe 'ikai??  Na'a ku talaatu ko e modern political science does not care about morality? so what are you going to do with that? how are you going to deal with modern political science?

 

Ko ho'o ma'u ia mei fee 'oku 'ikai ha me'a ko e political theology etc??what is your definition?where is your data???i tell you mine from the "book"...where is yours....asserting that there is no such thing as political theology without proving it is pure nonsense...

 

ko e opportunity ke tau omi 'o akoo ko e opportunity mei he 'Eikii.... kapau oku irrelevant e me'a 'oku 'omi ehe kau palofesaa ki he issue pea 'oku kovi hono omi ki lotoo.  pea kapau ko etau ilo original  ko e motu'i popao pee...pauange pee 'omi e ngaahi fakakaukau e kau palofesa 'oku 'uhinga malieange (more logical)......ikai ngataa ai koe haa koaa e toe omi e feinga ako kimuli pea tau nofo i tonga o fai ai e feinga original moe fakamaa??

 

hangee oku ke pehe ko e pisinisi kotoa pee 'oku feinga ke 'iai ha'anau tupu( profit making businesses) are evil/immoral...fakamahino mai pee 'oku pehee ho'o tuii?? kae fai ai ha talanoa...koe'uhii 'oku ou tui 'oku hala e ma'u ko iaa kapau 'oku ke tui pehee

 

kapau pee 'oku 'ikai ha'o 'ilo ki he political theology ask for clarifications mo e fakamaa e fu'u emotional attack without nothing to back your argument...hangee ho'o pehee oku ikai ha me'a ko e political theology koe pehee ehe ni'ihi oku ikai ha 'Otua ta'etenau a'u ki Puluto o vakai na'a oku nofo ai a Tangaloa ia..

 

teu toe 'ai atu "abusing or politicizing of political theology is totally different from the existence of political theology as a tool to be used for the common good.

 

toe fakatokanga'i eni ko e ta'u 'eni e fiha hono ngauehala'aki e "theology per se"  'i he siasii, i he politiki, i he tapa kotoa e mo'uii...does it mean there is nothing called theology??people/kau faifekau etc use theology at church to gain their power over the people??does it mean that theology is only a mean to gain power for oneself??ko e fo'i emotional attack ata'ataa pee ho'o argument

 

toe fakatokanga'i e last line oku ne "make you sick"...it was not a definitive claim/assertion keu pehee "Oku totonu ke tau ngaue'aki e kovi ke malu'i e leleii".Im not supporting it..ko eku fo'i fakamahalo fakakata pee( I used "Na'a 'oku...") 'aku ki he lau a Sesiilii koe'uhii 'oku ou fakafeta'i he'eku safe he fonua ko 'eni hao mei he kau terrorist lolotonga ko ia some people esp CIA and FBI are doing some dirty works in order to protect me...Tupou 1 did some dirty work in order to protect you and me...I'm not endorsing it, but I'm grateful that I am safe pea he'ikai keu condemn a Tupou 1 mo e kau CIA...ko nautolu ia mo e 'Eiki.

 

Na ke poupou'i e sisu Tonga ko e 'ai ke ofi mai e 'Otua...why not political theology? ko e fakaofiofi mai a Sisu ki loto politikale mo pisinisi??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is nice bro...  'oku define e tokoni ia ki he poor mei he .. fekau koe... "'oua 'e kaiha'a"...  'oku 'ikai ke define ia mei he kaiha'a ke lahi kae toki fakafoki atu charitable work...   ko ho'o setesi faka'osi 'oku make me sick... teke loto ke tatau hao foha ha'ane fakapo... lolotonga ko ia 'oku ke 'ilo'i 'oku lahi pe e ngaahi faingamalie ke reedeem ai....  kapau ne  allow 'ehe 'otua hono foha ke mate ki he mo'oni.. pea ne fakaoli 'aki e pa'anga... hange ko hono to'o mai mei he ngutu e ika ke totongi 'aki 'ene tukuhau.... pea koe pa'anga na'e fakatau 'aki ia 'e sutasi... bro give me something of your own rather  your professors...   koe 'uhinga hono ako'i kitautolu ke tau lava 'o fakakaukau  rather  ke tau hange ha ngaahi kokii... 
 
tell you what 'oku 'ikai keu tokanga au ki lau 'ae kau filosefa na'a nau ako'i... he koe 'uhinga ia 'e nau 'ako'i au keu lava 'o fai pe 'eku fakakaukau.. koe hallmark ia 'oe me'a koe formal education....   'ai mai ho'o lau... tukutu atu ho'o kau  faiako he kuo lava honau  fatongia.....  'oku  'ikai ha me'a koe political pe economic theology!! kohono use pe 'oe 'otua moe kalisitiane ke tu'umalie ai e kau ma'ume'a.... mo powerful ai e kau ma'u mafai.... sio kia kalaisi mo 'ene mo'ui..!!

============================

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 From: seni taniela <seni...@yahoo.com.au>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 3:45:43 AM  Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga o hoku tofi'a/'inasi?
otongik
Ben Mysterymann <tonga...@yahoo.co
Political theology,  Economic theology... ??? ko hono fakalea totonu ko hono ngaue'aki e teolosia ke fakafefeka 'aki ha mafai fakapolitikale 'o ha taha pe fa'ahi fakapolitikale... pe koe ngaue'aki e teolosia ki he fakatupu  pa'anga...  eg. ko hono  kau ma'u mafaingaue 'aki e fakakaukau ke fakafefeka'i 'ae pule 'a ha tu'i 'aki hono fakamalohi'i 'oe kakai ke nau kau ki fa'ahinga tui 'oku tu'uaki'i 'e he taki fakapolitikale ko ia... tatau heoonauatoaiako he kkuo uo lava hlu keni e kalisitiane moe mosilemi...  pea kuo ngaue'aki 'ehe ngaahi pisinisi lalahi 'i mamani 'ae ngaahi principles fakakalisitiane ki he commitment 'ae kau employees 'o lelei ange ai e lele 'ae ngaahi pisinisi... vahe lahi aie kau CEOs..... hehehe..ick
==================================================so
Mahalo pee Peni Tangaamisiteli 'oku ki'i too kitu'a e lau fakamahamahalo ko 'ena 'i 'olungaa. Na'aku pehee pee 'e 'osi pe ho'o haupapa kimu'a eku ngaue'aki e ongo fo'ilea ko 'enaa pea ngata ai ka ko 'ena 'oku kei hokohoko atu pee.
 
Feefee ke ke 'uluaki define mai e political theology pea ke toki fai e tukuhifo'i e fakakaukau kuou tuku atuu. 
 
Abusing of political theology or politicizing of political theology is totally different from the neutral and amoral existence of the concept as a tool to be utilized in the field of political thought.
 
Mei he Oxford Concise Dictionary ko e 'uhinga e Political theology. A Christian concern to explore the implications of theology for political life and thought. 'Oku ai dark side of political thology i hono hisitoliaa kae hangee ko dark side e fo'i lea "siasi" he 'ikai 'uhinga te tau fakapuna kitu'a e fo'ilea siasi mei he senituli 21
 

 

 

 

" from the definition of political theology I figure out that business theology is simply about exploring the implications of theology for business life and thought.

 

 

 

 



This is nice bro...  'oku define e tokoni ia ki he poor mei he .. fekau koe... "'oua 'e kaiha'a"...  'oku 'ikai ke define ia mei he kaiha'a ke lahi kae toki fakafoki atu charitable work...   ko ho'o setesi faka'osi 'oku make me sick... teke loto ke tatau hao foha ha'ane fakapo... lolotonga ko ia 'oku ke 'ilo'i 'oku lahi pe e ngaahi faingamalie ke reedeem ai....  kapau ne  allow 'ehe 'otua hono foha ke mate ki he mo'oni.. pea ne fakaoli 'aki e pa'anga... hange ko hono to'o mai mei he ngutu e ika ke totongi 'aki 'ene tukuhau.... pea koe pa'anga na'e fakatau 'aki ia 'e sutasi... bro give me something of your own rather  your professors...   koe 'uhinga hono ako'i kitautolu ke tau lava 'o fakakaukau  rather  ke tau hange ha ngaahi kokii... 
 
tell you what 'oku 'ikai keu tokanga au ki lau 'ae kau filosefa na'a nau ako'i... he koe 'uhinga ia 'e nau 'ako'i au keu lava 'o fai pe 'eku fakakaukau.. koe hallmark ia 'oe me'a koe formal education....   'ai mai ho'o lau... tukutu atu ho'o kau  faiako he kuo lava honau  fatongia.....  'oku  'ikai ha me'a koe political pe economic theology!! kohono use pe 'oe 'otua moe kalisitiane ke tu'umalie ai e kau ma'ume'a.... mo powerful ai e kau ma'u mafai.... sio kia kalaisi mo 'ene mo'ui..!!
============================
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 From: seni taniela <seni...@yahoo.com.au>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 3:45:43 AM  Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga o hoku tofi'a/'inasi?
otongik
Ben Mysterymann <tonga...@yahoo.co
Political theology,  Economic theology... ??? ko hono fakalea totonu ko hono ngaue'aki e teolosia ke fakafefeka 'aki ha mafai fakapolitikale 'o ha taha pe fa'ahi fakapolitikale... pe koe ngaue'aki e teolosia ki he fakatupu  pa'anga...  eg. ko hono  kau ma'u mafaingaue 'aki e fakakaukau ke fakafefeka'i 'ae pule 'a ha tu'i 'aki hono fakamalohi'i 'oe kakai ke nau kau ki fa'ahinga tui 'oku tu'uaki'i 'e he taki fakapolitikale ko ia... tatau heoonauatoaiako he kkuo uo lava hlu keni e kalisitiane moe mosilemi...  pea kuo ngaue'aki 'ehe ngaahi pisinisi lalahi 'i mamani 'ae ngaahi principles fakakalisitiane ki he commitment 'ae kau employees 'o lelei ange ai e lele 'ae ngaahi pisinisi... vahe lahi aie kau CEOs..... hehehe..ick
==================================================so
Mahalo pee Peni Tangaamisiteli 'oku ki'i too kitu'a e lau fakamahamahalo ko 'ena 'i 'olungaa. Na'aku pehee pee 'e 'osi pe ho'o haupapa kimu'a eku ngaue'aki e ongo fo'ilea ko 'enaa pea ngata ai ka ko 'ena 'oku kei hokohoko atu pee.
 
Feefee ke ke 'uluaki define mai e political theology pea ke toki fai e tukuhifo'i e fakakaukau kuou tuku atuu. 
 
Abusing of political theology or politicizing of political theology is totally different from the neutral and amoral existence of the concept as a tool to be utilized in the field of political thought.
 
Mei he Oxford Concise Dictionary ko e 'uhinga e Political theology. A Christian concern to explore the implications of theology for political life and thought. 'Oku ai dark side of political thology i hono hisitoliaa kae hangee ko dark side e fo'i lea "siasi" he 'ikai 'uhinga te tau fakapuna kitu'a e fo'ilea siasi mei he senituli 21
 
Ne 'omi 'ehe 'Eiki e faingamalie keu ako e ki'i me'i politiki he malumalu e faifekau Prebyterian 'oku Ph.D he political Science pea to e M.Div pea ko e kamata'anga ene lecture kotoa ko e lau e veesi folofola pea lotu....pea 'oku ne fakahoa e ngaahi e theories he politikale mo e tohitapu and he uses that term political theology throughout the year etc.
 
Ko ho'o lave ki he economic theology ko e fananga ia 'e taha. 
 
'I he 2008 ne 'omi 'e he 'Eikii e faingamalie keu kau atu ki he seminaa he Univesiti Columbia ko e ongo tama mei he va'a ekonomika e univesiti Cambridge ne na ha'u 'o introduce 'ena theory he pisinisii.  Neongo ne 'ikai ke na ngaue'aki ha fo'ilea fakalotu ka kiate au ko e Kalisitiane, ko e 'u principle fakalotu na'a na ngaue'aki.  na'a na gaue'aki e lea ko e social, spiritual capital etc. (Ko e ngaahi me'a 'oku lave kiai 'a tv. , oku laine taha mai moe theory e ongo tamaa.)   Pea u 'ohovale he'ena fakamamafa'i lolotonga e seminaa  e private property e kakai e fonuaa ke alleviate e masivaa(malo Tupou 1).  Pe ko hato ki'i motu'a fale pee konga kelekele etc..that's the starting point.  Kaikehe 'i he 'osi 'ena seminaa na'a ku 'alu atu 'o fakatalanoa peau 'ilo koe ongo Kalisitane one of them is an ordained minister he Siasi Ingilani...pea ko kinaua neu fanongo mei ai e fo'ilea ko e business/economic theology. 
 
  ka ke ako ki he politiki you will definitely deal with political philosophy...ko e me'a tatau ki he history of economic thought..sai te tau tuku pee ki he kau filosefa 'o ono'ahoo ke nau pule'i e fakakaukau e politikii mo e pisinisii???pea te tau kumi pee 'oku ai ha lau e theology ki he politikii?
 
'i he'ene pehee leva, ko ho'o lau 'i 'olungaa 'oku hee mama'o, and it's a strawman argument...you brought up a caricature of political theology and whipped it as if it is the real issue.
 
Malo ho'o haupapa 'a Tupou 1 mo e kau misinalee, ka ko 'eku faka'ataa e hisitolia e politiki i Tongaa, fakatatau ki he maama fakaako mo fakalotu e senituli 18-19 teu pehee Tupou 1 is my political hero laka mama'o he kau politiki e ngaahi 'aho ni...simply because he accomplished more for the "common good" than these well-learned politicians of the 21st century...
 
'Ikai ngata aii, ko ho'o fakamaau'i e agafai 'a Tupou 1 mei he tohitapu ko e political theology ia...'oku ke me'angaue'aki e me'afua fakalotu ke fua'aki e me'a fakapolitikale.  Koe'uhii ko e modern political science ne kamata mai e Machiavelli 'oku totally justify e using force to keep your power...I can argue that Tupou 1's action is justified as political leader...a machiavelian..'aee 'oku lolotonga hoko he politiki 'i Tonga he 'aho ni "Either you use force to eliminate your enemy" or "You keep you friends close, but keep your enemies closer" --that's modern political science without religious moral judgment...Fakatokanga'i e va'inga fakapolitikale 'a Tupou V 'ene disarm e kau Temoo...ko Teisina antimonarchy ena kuo minisitaa!!! I wonder pee 'e kei tu'umalohi ai pee ki he fakamaau totonuu pee 'e tokanga ki hono lakangaa na'a mole faingamalie ki he kapangakoo!!
 
toe fakatokanga'i na'e fa'u e moto "mixing of religion and politics" after he accomplished his political goal--to unify Tonga..
 
 kaikehe, kapau te tau sio fakalotu ki hono piokalafii te au lava 'o sio ne 'iai e liliu loto he'ene mo'uii pea kou tui ne ne lave he fakamo'ui hotau 'Eiki ko Sisu Kalaisi.  Na'a 'oku mo'oni 'a Churchill, "Sometimes we need to use evil to protect the good"

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Sepesi H Piukala

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Jan 9, 2010, 6:46:00 AM1/9/10
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Ben malo étau lava , óku fakalilifu ia kapau óku íai ha kakai óku  nau misuse á e lotu mo e Éiki ko Sisu Kalaisi.. ó feinga ke maú mafai mo tuúmalie.
 
Óku íai pe áe faáhinga ako ko e Teolosia Politikale mo Ikonomika pea ko e ongo teolosia óku mahuínga ke feohi pe moe kakai óe Siasi he óku tau nofo he ngaahi Puleánga óku puleí fakapolitikale pea tesi hono malohinga mei he ngaahi meá fakaikonomika ko e meáfua ó ha too lalo/too ólunga  faka-Politikale .
 
Ko kitautolu leva kau Kalisitiane, óku meáfua áki áe faitotonu moe fakaátuí he ko e tuúkimuá ia óe moúi á Kalaisi pea koeúhi ko e fotunga óe Puleánga 'óku malumalu ki ai e kakai Kalisitiane é feúnga áuptio kenau oo mo ha Moto óku tuúkimuá ai áe Ótua.
 
Ko e muimui/pe íkai muimui kiai áe kakai ko e meákehe ia , hange pe ia ko hono langa é he Puleánga é ngaahi Fale ke nofo ai e Kau Apo he Fonua ni : pe tenau nofo ai pe tenau tafu afi ai , ka óku kei langa pee, he faifai pe pea mahino hono tokangaekina kinautolu é he Puleánga.
 
Óku ou tui ko Tonga ne úuni ai e fie melino mo e nofo faaitaha he''ikai mamaó ai mo e meá óku ke fakamatala ki ai  , kae malie ko e fou atu áe Kosipeli ki Tonga pea neongo ne íai e kakai ne mate ai ka kuo tau anuanu he melie óe Kosipeli he áho ni, pea kuo tau toe pangoía pe foki he taimi tatau hono ngaue hala áki.
 
hunuaki pe.
.
takamuli.
 
 

Sepesi H. Piukala

Ph: +61401 590 917
 
Exodus 2:6 Then he said, "I am the God of your Father, the God of Abraham, the God of Issac and the God of Jacob."
*****************************************************************************************************************************************
-----Original Message-----
 On Behalf Of Ben Mysterymann

 'oku  'ikai ha me'a koe political pe economic theology!! kohono use pe 'oe 'otua moe kalisitiane ke tu'umalie ai e kau ma'ume'a.... mo powerful ai e kau ma'u mafai.... sio kia kalaisi mo 'ene mo'ui..!!

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sfaupula

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Jan 9, 2010, 9:23:23 AM1/9/10
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poupou atu seni he toutou fkmaama 'oku ke fai...
 
 

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Daphne Taukolonga

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Jan 9, 2010, 8:09:12 PM1/9/10
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Koe fo'i process ko ia 'oku 'iloa koe ako, 'oku fakanatula 'ene hoko  'ihe taimi kotoa talu hono fanaui'i kitautolu, koe ki'i taimi si'isi'i 'oku tau tangutu ai 'i faleako.  Koe 'ilo 'oku ma'u 'i faleako 'oku 'artificial' kae 'oua leva ke to'o 'ehe tokotaha ako 'o ngaue'aki ke hoko 'o kakano 'ihe 'ene mo'ui mone fakamo'oni'i koe theory 'oku malava ke practical.  
 
Koe 'book' mo'onia 'a 'etau life experiences.    'Oku hoko 'etau failure mo 'etau toonounou koe faiako 'iate ia pee kihe 'etau mo'ui.  Koe me'a ia 'oku fakatonulea'i koe Laumalie Ma'oni'oni 'oku ne tu'u 'o fai hotau taukapo'i 'ihe taimi kotoa.  'Oku ne hoko koe faiako 'ihe 'ene fou mai 'i hotau konisenisi 'ihe taimi 'oku tau toonounou 'ihe 'etau fakakaukau, pea moe taimi 'oku tau too ai kiha faingata'a tupu meihe fa'ainga fakakaukau na'atau fakahoko.  'Oku toe hanga pe 'ehe Laumalie Ma'oni'oni 'ihe 'ene fou mai 'i hotau konisenisi 'o tataki kitautolu kihe ngaahi lelei keheee, talu mei hono fanaui'i kitautolu 'o a'u kihe 'aho ni.
 
Talamai 'e Semisi Ta'ai 'oku mahino ange 'ae ako hono fai 'ihe faikavatonga.  Ko hai ia ha poto 'i mamani tene talamai 'oku hala 'a e lau 'a Semisi Ta'ai?  
 
Talamai 'ehe motu'a mei Masilamea koe tokotaha pisinisi mo'onia 'a e tokotaha 'oku ne fakamahu'inga'i 'a e seniti 'e 10.  'E toe 'iai ha tohi 'i mamani tene lava ke prove ai 'oku hala 'a e lau 'a e motu'a Masilamea? 
 
Koe ngaahi talanoa fakataataaa kotoa (parables) na'e ngaaue 'aki 'e Sisu 'ihe tohitapu na'e to'o mai meihe ngaahi 'events' na'e hoko 'ihe mo'ui 'a e kakai 'ihe ngaahi 'aho na'ane 'i mamani ai, he koe process ia 'o e ako 'e mahino ai 'a e pule'anga 'o e 'Otua mo hono langa 'i hotau ngaahi loto.
 
Koe culture 'a Tonga na'e develop mai 'ihe ngaahi senituli he'etau fanga kui pea kuotau lavengamalie hono ngaahi lelei 'ihe 'aho ni. 'Oku fakamahino'i mai 'ehe culture 'a Tonga 'ihe 'ene fou mai 'ihe 'Otua mo Tonga ko hoku tofi'a, tetau ako kihe ngaahi principles 'a e Uesite from the 'books' pea tetau toki lava ai 'o fakamo'oni'i kuo 'osi ma'u pe 'e Tonga 'a e Katokatoaa.  Koe 'Otua ko Katokatoa.  Ko hotau ngafa ke fakahokooo, ko 'etau takitaha tu'u 'o ngaue'aki 'a e taleniti kotoa pe kuo 'osi 'omai kiate kitautolu takitaha pea tau ngaaue fetakinima, kae tuku kihe Otua kene fakakakato 'ihe 'ene Kelesii 'ata'ataa he'ilo na'a lava ke holoholo'i 'a e lo'imata 'o Tonga.  Koe tangi 'a Tonga koe tutulu ai pe ia 'a Kalaisi Kalusefai.
 
Koe hala, moe mo'oni moe mo'ui 'oku 'ia Kalasi pea na'ane liliu 'a e vai koe uaine, pea ne toe folofola mai 'ihe loki 'i 'olunga, 'mou to'o 'eni 'o inu ko hoku totoo 'eni koe kovinanite fakamomeniti 'o e 'afio 'a Kalaisi 'i hotau loto 'o fai hotau 'auhani.  Koe haa kuotau toe kumi ai 'a Sisu kihe Uesite mo 'enau text books? 
 
daphne
 


--- On Sat, 9/1/10, seni taniela <seni...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

Sam Pakofe

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Kole atu ketau foki mai kihe 'etau " tana'o" , 'osi pe ho'o mou ifi pea mou foki mai ki loto ni, pea kapau kuo tau hiki pea tau hiki kiha topic fo'ou..
 
Koe " tofi'a moe 'inasi" netau talanoa ai, kuo tau a'u kitautolu kihe ngaahi issue mama'o 'aupito...
 
Fokotu'u mai ha topic kiai , katau hiki kiai ,, kae tuku ange e 'otua moTonga ia ke 'ataaa aa...
 
sami.

Ben Mysterymann

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Jan 9, 2010, 11:56:10 PM1/9/10
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hey bro seni!! male e lelei fefe hake?? kuo kamata pe keu sai'ia 'iate koee... pea ke tala ki oxford moe cambridge... koe 'uhinga ia 'e na ako'i au ke 'oua teu toe ngaue 'aki 'ena tikisinali....  kau hoko pe au ia koe tohi ako makehe... 'ofa pe ke ke pehe mo koe!!  koepolitical teolosia ia moe economika teolosia ko hono toki define pe kinaua ia he senituli 16th .. na'e 'ikai ke 'i ai ha me'a pehee ia.  study e hisitolia 'oe teolosia ...  koe tohi mahu'inga taha pe BOOK mahu'inga taha ko koe!!! keu fanongo ki ha fa'ahinga me'a 'oku original...  koe kokii ia koe koe manupuna pets pe ia 'ae kau tu'umaliee..
 
hey bro talk to later..

Sent: Sat, January 9, 2010 4:32:44 AM

Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga o hoku tofi'a/'inasi?
Ben Mysterymann tonga...@yahoo.com

 

Peni talanoa he issue...kae tuku e tau sinoo mo e fakamaa....ta kamata mei he definition...every conversation should start from the first act of the mind--i.e understanding

 

Teu toe 'ai atu ko e 'uhinga e Political theology mei he tikisinale okisifooti--. A Christian concern to explore the implications of theology for political life and thought pea ko e me'a tatau pee  'e apply he busu iness...ko e feinga ke redeem politics and business by seeking what would Jesus/Bible say.

 uli

Ben Mysterymann

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Jan 10, 2010, 12:04:58 AM1/10/10
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AMEN  Daphne!! 'oku ke manatu'i ho'o tolongi 'aki a vehehala he taimini 'e fo'i manioke tama hehehehe..  peake 'i ke tuli 'aki u e potu'i'akau he'eku lau atu ki ho'o ha'u mei houma...
 
koe primary 'a nuku'alofa 'oku fakalangalea e manatu ki ai.. 'oku kei fai mai pe ho'o fiemalohi eee... you are something else.. mahalo pe 'oku 'i ai pe ho'o mo'oni...
 
later

From: Daphne Taukolonga <sioelina...@yahoo.com.au>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 9, 2010 6:09:12 PM

Ben Mysterymann

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Jan 10, 2010, 12:37:21 AM1/10/10
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Sami ee!! hahahha.... koe 'otua mo tonga ko hoku tofi'a...   ko e ha'o fakatonulea ki he tu'u 'ae ngaahi kalama ko 'ena hala he veape...pe lea ngaue... ko hai 'oku ne tataki 'a hai?? koe fehu'i pe...

From: Sam Pakofe <pak...@yahoo.com.au>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 9, 2010 7:07:38 PM

Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga o hoku tofi'a/'inasi?
Kole atu ketau foki mai kihe 'etau " tana'o" , 'osi pe ho'o mou ifi pea mou foki mai ki loto ni, pea kapau kuo tau hiki pea tau hiki kiha topic fo'ou..
 
Koe " tofi'a moe 'inasi" netau talanoa ai, kuo tau a'u kitautolu kihe ngaahi issue mama'o 'aupito...
 
Fokotu'u mai ha topic kiai , katau hiki kiai ,, kae tuku ange e 'otua moTonga ia ke 'ataaa aa...eape
 
sami.

Ben Mysterymann

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Jan 10, 2010, 2:56:54 AM1/10/10
to tasil...@googlegroups.com
kataki koe internet 'i kalau  'oku malo pee... koe kole atu tokoua keke fakafolahi'i mai e issue  'oku ke pehe 'oku ya'e mahino ke mahino.... peak 'alu ki he ngaahi tikisinali ke nau define  ho'o fakakaukau... ko 'eku fiema'u 'aku koe ha e me'a 'oku ke ma'u mei he ko neke fou atu ai...   even kapau te ke  copy mai pe 'e koe....!!  ka 'oku ou fiema'u 'e au e lai 'a Seini... ke mahino na'ane  folo pea fulifulihi e fakaukau 'ae kau palofita na'e ako ai... pea hahafu mai mei ai ha fakakaukau fo'ou ke langa ai e siasi moe fonua... tuke e 'ita ia he 'oku 'ikai keu lava au 'o fuhu...hehehehehehe

Sent: Sat, January 9, 2010 4:32:44

seni taniela

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Jan 10, 2010, 4:29:22 AM1/10/10
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Ben Mysteryman
hey bro seni!! male e lelei fefe hake?? kuo kamata pe keu sai'ia 'iate koee... pea ke tala ki oxford moe cambridge... koe 'uhinga ia 'e na ako'i au ke 'oua teu toe ngaue 'aki 'ena tikisinali....  kau hoko pe au ia koe tohi ako makehe... 'ofa pe ke ke pehe mo koe!!  koepolitical teolosia ia moe economika teolosia ko hono toki define pe kinaua ia he senituli 16th .. na'e 'ikai ke 'i ai ha me'a pehee ia.  study e hisitolia 'oe teolosia ...  koe tohi mahu'inga taha pe BOOK mahu'inga taha ko koe!!! keu fanongo ki ha fa'ahinga me'a 'oku original...  koe kokii ia koe koe manupuna pets pe ia 'ae kau tu'umaliee..
================================================================================
 
Peni Tangata Misitelii
 
Na'a ke 'ilo mei fee ko e pol. & eko. teolosia na'e toki define he senituli 16...ko ho'o 'ilo original pee ma'u mei ha tohi pe mei ha faiako ?  'ikai ke ke fakatokanga'i e contradiction ho'o talanoaa?  ta'ofi 'eku ngaue'aki atu e lau a e tohii ka ke ngauemai'aki pee 'e koe?'isa kapau 'oku 'ikai ke te acknowledge na'a te borrow ia mei ha taha ko e kaiha'a ia pea 'oku fire ia mei he akoo? 
 
'oku ai nai ha me'a ko e Pacific Contextual Theology?? Na'e toki fa'ele'i mai e pepee ko 'enaa 'aneafi??Does it exist??..me'a ko e ta'eta'e'uhinga a e  potalanoaa...fefee global warming theology?? oku ai ha me'a pehee??  Ko hai 'oku faitu'utu'uni ki  he 'iai moe ta'e'iai ha fa'ahinga teolosia? Ko e haa e lau kiai ho'o fakakaukau original?
 
Hangee ho'o feinga faka'ikai'i e pol theology ko e pehee atu ki he atheists kapau 'oku ke tui 'oku 'ikai ha 'Otua , so what are you arguing against?  Kapau 'oku 'ikai ha pol theology ko e ha e me'a 'oku ke nofo hifo hono faka'ikai'ii....ha e me'a 'oku mole ai hoto taimi he argue against something it does not exist?? tukukehe kapau ko e faitu'utu'uni pee ia ho'o fakakaukau original...ko 'eku fakakaukau original I won't waste my time arguing against something that does not exist. 'Isa mei ho'o ako e history of theology, in terms of time frame, ne fa'ele'i e fo'ilea theology 'ane fee?? Did "theology" exist from eternity??If theology came into existence in a certain time period, does it exist now?? Vakaiange ka ta muimui'i e logic ho'o tala 'oku ikai ha pol theology te ta too ai ki he vanu e ta'eta'e'uhingaa...forget about pol theology...just talk about "theology" does it exist? 
 
Fakatokanga'i 'a e hee 'etau talanoa mei he topikii...ko e 'ikai ke ke nofo he topikii, ka ke tafoki hake 'o fai fakatonutonu 'o tala 'oku 'ikai ha me'a ko e pol theology...na'e 'ikai keu tali ki ho'o 'uluaki post ko 'eku pehee tuku pee ke 'alu mo e maumautaimii..(for me it was majoring on the minor)...ka ke toe nofo hifoo ho'o ng. post kimui 'o fakahahaa ho'o fakakaukau original 'o tala 'oku 'ikai ha me'a ko e pol. theology...peau pehee ke ta talanoaa aa ai...pea ko eku fakakaukau original mo common sense ke 'uluaki fakapapau'i 'oku ta talanoa ki ha me'a pee 'e taha 'aki ha fakapapau'i e defintion kimu'a pea toki fai ha talanoaa.  pea koe'uhii na'e 'ikai keu fa'ulea teu 'oatu e definition e mamaani/tikisinali 'e lava ai ke fai ai ha pootalanoaa...oku ou kei tali ni atu pe te ke loto ki he definition'a e palangi pea ka 'ikai 'omi aa ho'o definition oringinal 'au...kaikehe kuo ke fai 'e koe 'a e kape fakapunake 'o lau koe kokii au..ko e hingoa e taha e kokii ko e kakaa...kohai 'oku kokii pea ko hai 'oku kakaa kaakaa??toe fakakaulekaange faka'alinga lelei ''o tala 'oku 'ikai ke te 'ita ka te  fai e lau 'o tamoloki hifo e tokotahaa koee kae 'ikai nofo he issue 'oku fai ai e talanoaa....me'a ia ne lau 'e Sisu ko e kata 'a nifotea, kovi ia kia kita, kovi ki hoko kaunga'api toe pango ki he sky.
 
 toe hee atu 'eni ia ke ta fakahaahaa pee ko hai 'oku original 'ene fakakaukau etc koe me'a ia 'oku ui ko e "me-ism egotistical theology"!!!..toe fakakaulekaange ia.
 
kou pehee ke ta ngata heni mo e fakamaa pea ka 'ikai 'oku mo'oni 'a Sami, tonu ke ke fokotu'u mai ha tepile 'e taha mo e vevea e tepile ko 'enii he fakakaulekaa...pea ke fakakaveinga "'ai ke original e fakakaukau" pe "oku 'ikai ha me'a ko e pol. theology" ka kuo pau pee ke kole atu ke ta 'uluaki define e issue kimu'a pea toki fai e talanoaa
 
fonua temokalati eni...tui koe 'oku 'ikai ha pol theology, tui au 'oku 'iai e me'a pehee
 

From: Ben Mysterymann <tonga...@yahoo.com>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, 9 January, 2010 9:56:10 PM

tv

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Jan 10, 2010, 12:35:50 PM1/10/10
to Tasilisili-he-ngaluope

On Jan 9, 9:15 am, Ben Mysterymann <tongama...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ..  'oku  'ikai ha me'a koe political pe economic theology!! kohono use pe 'oe 'otua moe kalisitiane ke tu'umalie ai e kau ma'ume'a.... mo powerful ai e kau ma'u mafai.... sio kia kalaisi mo 'ene mo'ui..!!
>--------------------

'Oku ou fifili he setesi ko eni Mysterymann. Hangee kiate au 'oku
'ikai pee ke ke mahino'i 'a Sisu ho'o fo'i mono ko eni. Ko e
palopalema eni 'o hono abstract theologised 'o Sisu (S Tonga, sisu
haua ... etc). Ko e 'ikai pee ke ke mahino'i e 'Otua mo 'ene palomesi
mo 'ene justice, ko e tafoki hake ia 'o tapale noa'ia si'i Sisu.

Kapau te tau foki ki he Fuakava Motu'a 'o kamata mei ai, mahalo 'e sai
ia ke kamata ai e potalanoa. Ko e palomesi kia 'Atama (ne fakafo'ou
kia 'Epalahame - Deut 7:12-14), ko e palomesi 'o e fonua fo'ou mo e
lelei 'o e ikonomika ki he kakai 'Isileli (a national prosperity).
Kapau te tau lau ke mahino 'o 'ilo e Fuakava Motu'a (Tohi Lao), 'oku
'i ai e ngaahi lao ne tuku mai ke tokonga'i mo tauhi e masiva (law
required giving and active concerns to the poor). Hangee kiate au ne
fakamanatu mai 'e Sisu - te mou fe'ao moe kakai ni (*Mark 14). Kapau
'e 'ai ke mahino - 'oku 'ikai (pea nenefu) ke fakamamafa'i 'e he lao
(FM) 'a e economic equality! 'A ia 'oku ngali 'oku ke misi ki ai. Ko
Sisu telee ena 'oku ne talamai te tau fe'ao mo e kakai masiva.

'I he'ene pehee, 'oku make sense pee 'a e kehekehe 'o 'eta wallet - ke
'i ai e kakai tu'umalie & kakai masiva. Ko ho'o palafu ke sio kia Sisu
mo 'ene mo'ui 'oku to'o ia mei fe? Mahalo 'oku sai ange argument 'a
Seni mo 'ene kau palofesa ho'o tokanga mai ke tau takitaha fakamahalo
ki he reality.

Daphne Taukolonga

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Jan 10, 2010, 8:11:42 PM1/10/10
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Misiteli mo Seni
 
'Oku mahino mai 'oku 'iai 'a e fo'i truth 'oku mo feinga'i ke tafe touliki mai kia kimautolu ko 'eni 'oku tangutu 'o fanongo atu, mo kaataki ko 'eku 'eke 'atu meia kimautolu ko 'eni kau toutai 'ihe mamaha, koe haa koaa 'a e me'a 'oku mo talanoa ki ai?
 
Tuku hifo mu'a 'a e ako 'i Oxford moe ako 'ihe kau Palofessors kamo talanoa mai 'i levolo 'oe hakalo kia kimautolu majority.  Koe 'uhinga ia  na'e implement ai 'a e 'plain english' ke tuku 'a e 'high high' 'a e kau 'ekatemika 'ihe mala'e ako moe ngaaue kehekehe 'o hangeee ia 'oku nau toe makehe atu kinautolu kae hili ia kapau temou talanoa mai 'ihe 'ordinary language' 'a'aku mo Semisi Ta'ai moe toenga ko ia, temau toe 'more productive' ange ihe fakaeenofoo.
 
Koe fa'ahinga ako ko 'eni koe theology, koe ako kihe haa koaa?  Koe haa leva 'a e 'uhinga moe kaveinga 'o e ako ko ia 'oku 'iloa koe political theology?   Koe haa leva 'a e 'uhinga moe kaveinga 'oe economic theology?   Mo 'uluaki tofi 'a e political moe economic meihe theology.  Koe haa 'a e kaveinga moe 'uhinga 'o e political studies?  Koe ha 'a e kaveinga moe 'uhinga 'o e economic studies?
 
Kapau 'oku 'ikai ke mahino kiate kimoua ho'omo faka'uhinga pea 'oku mo pehee 'e 'uhinga kia kimautolu ko 'eni 'oku tali atu kiha momo 'e toomai? 
 
'Oku fu'u ma'olunga 'a e lea 'oku mo ngaaue 'aki neongo koe lea fakatonga, 'e lava kemo hanga 'o 'omai 'a e lea 'o fakatatau kihe 'etau culture mo hotau 'ataakai, mo kaataki fufu atu ki loto kae 'oua leva kuomo lava 'o ngungu 'aki 'a e lea fakatonga.  Mo kai fa'ifa'iteliha 'i faleako pea mo toe oomai pe 'o faka'uo'uokai mai? 'oku 'ikai 'fair' ia kiate au mo Kolomaile mo 'emau kau pangi kotoa.  'Omai 'a e lea temau si'i lava 'o mahino'i.
 
Kole atu pe kia Sami moe kau punakee, tuku pe mu'a ke hoko atu 'a e talanoa he'e malava pe 'ehe ongo filosefa ko 'eni 'o 'connect' 'a e kaveinga 'o e tepile kihe talanoa 'oku na fakahoko neongo 'etau ngangau'ulu he feinga ke mahino kia kitautolu.  hehehehe,
 
'ofa atu kiate kimoutolu kotoa pea malo mu'a Misiteli mo Seni 'a e talanoa moe ma'u koloa.
 
daphne
 
 
 


--- On Sun, 10/1/10, seni taniela <seni...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

sfaupula

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Jan 10, 2010, 10:25:28 PM1/10/10
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malo e tokoni moe fkmaama tevita. 'oku fu'u fkninimo 'aupito pe 'a e
ta'emahino ia e kau lau ako 'e ni'ihi 'i fale ni pea malo pe ho'o kei kataki
'au ia ke tuhu'i atu kiate kinautolu e halanga 'o e talanoa... malo

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Sam Pakofe

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Jan 11, 2010, 1:10:42 AM1/11/10
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malie lahi e talanoa Ben, pea malie e Fakamaama , 'e ifo  etalanoa Ben kapau tetau talanoa he a'usia eee moe me'a 'oku tau mahino'i eee.. 
 
 
poupou atu Ben,,,
 
sami.

From: Ben Mysterymann <tonga...@yahoo.com>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sun, 10 January, 2010 3:56:10 PM

Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga o hoku tofi'a/'inasi?
hey bro seni!! male e lelei fefe hake?? kuo kamata pe keu sai'ia 'iate koee... pea ke tala ki oxford moe cambridge... koe 'uhinga ia 'e na ako'i au ke 'oua teu toe ngaue 'aki 'ena tikisinali....  kau hoko pe au ia koe tohi ako makehe... 'ofa pe ke ke pehe mo koe!!  koepolitical teolosia ia moe economika teolosia ko hono toki define pe kinaua ia he senituli 16th .. na'e 'ikai ke 'i ai ha me'a pehee ia.  study e hisitolia 'oe teolosia ...  koe tohi mahu'inga taha pe BOOK mahu'inga taha ko koe!!! keu fanongo ki ha fa'ahinga me'a 'oku original...  koe kokii ia koe koe manupuna pets pe ia 'ae kau tu'umaliee..
 
hey bro talk to later..
From: seni taniela <seni...@yahoo.com.au>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, January 9, 2010 4:32:44 AM
Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga o hoku tofi'a/'inasi?

Ben Mysterymann tonga...@yahoo.com

 

Peni talanoa he issue...kae tuku e tau sinoo mo e fakamaa....ta kamata mei he definition...every conversation should start from the first act of the mind--i.e understanding

 

Teu toe 'ai atu ko e 'uhinga e Political theology mei he tikisinale okisifooti--. A Christian concern to explore the implications of theology for political life and thought pea ko e me'a tatau pee  'e apply he busu iness...ko e feinga ke redeem politics and business by seeking what would Jesus/Bible say.

 uli

is there such thing as "Chritian concern to explore the implications of theology for political life or business life"?? 'Io pe 'ikai??  Na'a ku talaatu ko e modern political science does not care about morality? so what are you going to do with that? how are you going to deal with modern political science?

 

Ko ho'o ma'u ia mei fee 'oku 'ikai ha me'a ko e political theology etc??what is your definition?where is your data???i tell you mine from the "book"...where is yours.....asserting that there is no such thing as political theology without proving it is pure nonsense...

 

ko e opportunity ke tau omi 'o akoo ko e opportunity mei he 'Eikii.... kapau oku irrelevant e me'a 'oku 'omi ehe kau palofesaa ki he issue pea 'oku kovi hono omi ki lotoo.  pea kapau ko etau ilo original  ko e motu'i popao pee...pauange pee 'omi e ngaahi fakakaukau e kau palofesa 'oku 'uhinga malieange (more logical)......ikai ngataa ai koe haa koaa e toe omi e feinga ako kimuli pea tau nofo i tonga o fai ai e feinga original moe fakamaa??

 

hangee oku ke pehe ko e pisinisi kotoa pee 'oku feinga ke 'iai ha'anau tupu( profit making businesses) are evil/immoral...fakamahino mai pee 'oku pehee ho'o tuii?? kae fai ai ha talanoa...koe'uhii 'oku ou tui 'oku hala e ma'u ko iaa kapau 'oku ke tui pehee

 

kapau pee 'oku 'ikai ha'o 'ilo ki he political theology ask for clarifications mo e fakamaa e fu'u emotional attack without nothing to back your argument...hangee ho'o pehee oku ikai ha me'a ko e political theology koe pehee ehe ni'ihi oku ikai ha 'Otua ta'etenau a'u ki Puluto o vakai na'a oku nofo ai a Tangaloa ia..

 

teu toe 'ai atu "abusing or politicizing of political theology is totally different from the existence of political theology as a tool to be used for the common good.

 

toe fakatokanga'i eni ko e ta'u 'eni e fiha hono ngauehala'aki e "theology per se"  'i he siasii, i he politiki, i he tapa kotoa e mo'uii...does it mean there is nothing called theology??people/kau faifekau etc use theology at church to gain their power over the people??does it mean that theology is only a mean to gain power for oneself??ko e fo'i emotional attack ata'ataa pee ho'o argument

 

toe fakatokanga'i e last line oku ne "make you sick"...it was not a definitive claim/assertion keu pehee "Oku totonu ke tau ngaue'aki e kovi ke malu'i e leleii".Im not supporting it..ko eku fo'i fakamahalo fakakata pee( I used "Na'a 'oku...") 'aku ki he lau a Sesiilii koe'uhii 'oku ou fakafeta'i he'eku safe he fonua ko 'eni hao mei he kau terrorist lolotonga ko ia some people esp CIA and FBI are doing some dirty works in order to protect me...Tupou 1 did some dirty work in order to protect you and me...I'm not endorsing it, but I'm grateful that I am safe pea he'ikai keu condemn a Tupou 1 mo e kau CIA...ko nautolu ia mo e 'Eiki.

 

Na ke poupou'i e sisu Tonga ko e 'ai ke ofi mai e 'Otua...why not political theology? ko e fakaofiofi mai a Sisu ki loto politikale mo pisinisi??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is nice bro...  'oku define e tokoni ia ki he poor mei he .. fekau koe... "'oua 'e kaiha'a"...  'oku 'ikai ke define ia mei he kaiha'a ke lahi kae toki fakafoki atu charitable work...   ko ho'o setesi faka'osi 'oku make me sick... teke loto ke tatau hao foha ha'ane fakapo.... lolotonga ko ia 'oku ke 'ilo'i 'oku lahi pe e ngaahi faingamalie ke reedeem ai....  kapau ne  allow 'ehe 'otua hono foha ke mate ki he mo'oni.. pea ne fakaoli 'aki e pa'anga... hange ko hono to'o mai mei he ngutu e ika ke totongi 'aki 'ene tukuhau.... pea koe pa'anga na'e fakatau 'aki ia 'e sutasi... bro give me something of your own rather  your professors...   koe 'uhinga hono ako'i kitautolu ke tau lava 'o fakakaukau  rather  ke tau hange ha ngaahi kokii... 

 
tell you what 'oku 'ikai keu tokanga au ki lau 'ae kau filosefa na'a nau ako'i... he koe 'uhinga ia 'e nau 'ako'i au keu lava 'o fai pe 'eku fakakaukau.. koe hallmark ia 'oe me'a koe formal education....   'ai mai ho'o lau... tukutu atu ho'o kau  faiako he kuo lava honau  fatongia.....  'oku  'ikai ha me'a koe political pe economic theology!! kohono use pe 'oe 'otua moe kalisitiane ke tu'umalie ai e kau ma'ume'a.... mo powerful ai e kau ma'u mafai.... sio kia kalaisi mo 'ene mo'ui..!!
============================
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 From: seni taniela <seni...@yahoo.com.au>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 3:45:43 AM  Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga o hoku tofi'a/'inasi?
otongik
Ben Mysterymann <tonga...@yahoo.co
Political theology,  Economic theology... ??? ko hono fakalea totonu ko hono ngaue'aki e teolosia ke fakafefeka 'aki ha mafai fakapolitikale 'o ha taha pe fa'ahi fakapolitikale... pe koe ngaue'aki e teolosia ki he fakatupu  pa'anga...  eg. ko hono  kau ma'u mafaingaue 'aki e fakakaukau ke fakafefeka'i 'ae pule 'a ha tu'i 'aki hono fakamalohi'i 'oe kakai ke nau kau ki fa'ahinga tui 'oku tu'uaki'i 'e he taki fakapolitikale ko ia... tatau heoonauatoaiako he kkuo uo lava hlu keni e kalisitiane moe mosilemi...  pea kuo ngaue'aki 'ehe ngaahi pisinisi lalahi 'i mamani 'ae ngaahi principles fakakalisitiane ki he commitment 'ae kau employees 'o lelei ange ai e lele 'ae ngaahi pisinisi... vahe lahi aie kau CEOs..... hehehe..ick
==================================================so
Mahalo pee Peni Tangaamisiteli 'oku ki'i too kitu'a e lau fakamahamahalo ko 'ena 'i 'olungaa. Na'aku pehee pee 'e 'osi pe ho'o haupapa kimu'a eku ngaue'aki e ongo fo'ilea ko 'enaa pea ngata ai ka ko 'ena 'oku kei hokohoko atu pee.
 
Feefee ke ke 'uluaki define mai e political theology pea ke toki fai e tukuhifo'i e fakakaukau kuou tuku atuu. 
 
Abusing of political theology or politicizing of political theology is totally different from the neutral and amoral existence of the concept as a tool to be utilized in the field of political thought.
 
Mei he Oxford Concise Dictionary ko e 'uhinga e Political theology. A Christian concern to explore the implications of theology for political life and thought. 'Oku ai dark side of political thology i hono hisitoliaa kae hangee ko dark side e fo'i lea "siasi" he 'ikai 'uhinga te tau fakapuna kitu'a e fo'ilea siasi mei he senituli 21
 

 

 

 

" from the definition of political theology I figure out that business theology is simply about exploring the implications of theology for business life and thought.

 

 

 

 



This is nice bro...  'oku define e tokoni ia ki he poor mei he .. fekau koe... "'oua 'e kaiha'a"...  'oku 'ikai ke define ia mei he kaiha'a ke lahi kae toki fakafoki atu charitable work...   ko ho'o setesi faka'osi 'oku make me sick... teke loto ke tatau hao foha ha'ane fakapo.... lolotonga ko ia 'oku ke 'ilo'i 'oku lahi pe e ngaahi faingamalie ke reedeem ai....  kapau ne  allow 'ehe 'otua hono foha ke mate ki he mo'oni.. pea ne fakaoli 'aki e pa'anga... hange ko hono to'o mai mei he ngutu e ika ke totongi 'aki 'ene tukuhau.... pea koe pa'anga na'e fakatau 'aki ia 'e sutasi... bro give me something of your own rather  your professors...   koe 'uhinga hono ako'i kitautolu ke tau lava 'o fakakaukau  rather  ke tau hange ha ngaahi kokii... 
 
tell you what 'oku 'ikai keu tokanga au ki lau 'ae kau filosefa na'a nau ako'i... he koe 'uhinga ia 'e nau 'ako'i au keu lava 'o fai pe 'eku fakakaukau.. koe hallmark ia 'oe me'a koe formal education.....   'ai mai ho'o lau... tukutu atu ho'o kau  faiako he kuo lava honau  fatongia.....  'oku  'ikai ha me'a koe political pe economic theology!! kohono use pe 'oe 'otua moe kalisitiane ke tu'umalie ai e kau ma'ume'a.... mo powerful ai e kau ma'u mafai.... sio kia kalaisi mo 'ene mo'ui..!!
============================
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 From: seni taniela <seni...@yahoo.com.au>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 3:45:43 AM  Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga o hoku tofi'a/'inasi?
otongik
Ben Mysterymann <tonga...@yahoo.co
Political theology,  Economic theology... ??? ko hono fakalea totonu ko hono ngaue'aki e teolosia ke fakafefeka 'aki ha mafai fakapolitikale 'o ha taha pe fa'ahi fakapolitikale... pe koe ngaue'aki e teolosia ki he fakatupu  pa'anga...  eg. ko hono  kau ma'u mafaingaue 'aki e fakakaukau ke fakafefeka'i 'ae pule 'a ha tu'i 'aki hono fakamalohi'i 'oe kakai ke nau kau ki fa'ahinga tui 'oku tu'uaki'i 'e he taki fakapolitikale ko ia... tatau heoonauatoaiako he kkuo uo lava hlu keni e kalisitiane moe mosilemi...  pea kuo ngaue'aki 'ehe ngaahi pisinisi lalahi 'i mamani 'ae ngaahi principles fakakalisitiane ki he commitment 'ae kau employees 'o lelei ange ai e lele 'ae ngaahi pisinisi... vahe lahi aie kau CEOs..... hehehe..ick
==================================================so
Mahalo pee Peni Tangaamisiteli 'oku ki'i too kitu'a e lau fakamahamahalo ko 'ena 'i 'olungaa. Na'aku pehee pee 'e 'osi pe ho'o haupapa kimu'a eku ngaue'aki e ongo fo'ilea ko 'enaa pea ngata ai ka ko 'ena 'oku kei hokohoko atu pee.
 
Feefee ke ke 'uluaki define mai e political theology pea ke toki fai e tukuhifo'i e fakakaukau kuou tuku atuu. 
 
Abusing of political theology or politicizing of political theology is totally different from the neutral and amoral existence of the concept as a tool to be utilized in the field of political thought.
 
Mei he Oxford Concise Dictionary ko e 'uhinga e Political theology. A Christian concern to explore the implications of theology for political life and thought. 'Oku ai dark side of political thology i hono hisitoliaa kae hangee ko dark side e fo'i lea "siasi" he 'ikai 'uhinga te tau fakapuna kitu'a e fo'ilea siasi mei he senituli 21
 
Ne 'omi 'ehe 'Eiki e faingamalie keu ako e ki'i me'i politiki he malumalu e faifekau Prebyterian 'oku Ph.D he political Science pea to e M.Div pea ko e kamata'anga ene lecture kotoa ko e lau e veesi folofola pea lotu.....pea 'oku ne fakahoa e ngaahi e theories he politikale mo e tohitapu and he uses that term political theology throughout the year etc.
 
Ko ho'o lave ki he economic theology ko e fananga ia 'e taha. 
 
'I he 2008 ne 'omi 'e he 'Eikii e faingamalie keu kau atu ki he seminaa he Univesiti Columbia ko e ongo tama mei he va'a ekonomika e univesiti Cambridge ne na ha'u 'o introduce 'ena theory he pisinisii.  Neongo ne 'ikai ke na ngaue'aki ha fo'ilea fakalotu ka kiate au ko e Kalisitiane, ko e 'u principle fakalotu na'a na ngaue'aki.  na'a na gaue'aki e lea ko e social, spiritual capital etc. (Ko e ngaahi me'a 'oku lave kiai 'a tv. , oku laine taha mai moe theory e ongo tamaa.)   Pea u 'ohovale he'ena fakamamafa'i lolotonga e seminaa  e private property e kakai e fonuaa ke alleviate e masivaa(malo Tupou 1).  Pe ko hato ki'i motu'a fale pee konga kelekele etc..that's the starting point.  Kaikehe 'i he 'osi 'ena seminaa na'a ku 'alu atu 'o fakatalanoa peau 'ilo koe ongo Kalisitane one of them is an ordained minister he Siasi Ingilani...pea ko kinaua neu fanongo mei ai e fo'ilea ko e business/economic theology. 
 
  ka ke ako ki he politiki you will definitely deal with political philosophy...ko e me'a tatau ki he history of economic thought..sai te tau tuku pee ki he kau filosefa 'o ono'ahoo ke nau pule'i e fakakaukau e politikii mo e pisinisii???pea te tau kumi pee 'oku ai ha lau e theology ki he politikii?
 
'i he'ene pehee leva, ko ho'o lau 'i 'olungaa 'oku hee mama'o, and it's a strawman argument...you brought up a caricature of political theology and whipped it as if it is the real issue.
 
Malo ho'o haupapa 'a Tupou 1 mo e kau misinalee, ka ko 'eku faka'ataa e hisitolia e politiki i Tongaa, fakatatau ki he maama fakaako mo fakalotu e senituli 18-19 teu pehee Tupou 1 is my political hero laka mama'o he kau politiki e ngaahi 'aho ni...simply because he accomplished more for the "common good" than these well-learned politicians of the 21st century....

Ben Mysterymann

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Jan 10, 2010, 8:04:19 PM1/10/10
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Fefe hake my friend ta toki dinner ha 'aho ka teke totongi 'e koe!! you know what I mean... ko e'ku mention e senituli 16.. he koe me'a ia na'e ako'i  kitaua.. pea na'e 'uhinga ia ke o mai 'o lamulamu e 'ilo ko ia pea ta ngaue'aki e fruit koe 'e ma'u mei ai 'o fakatatau ki he culture moe situation 'oku ta 'i ai  ke tokoni ki he need 'ae kakai  ... ka 'oku 'ikai ko hota kololia... it has to be the kololia 'o kalaisi... OOO... me'an ne hanga 'e Sisuu 'o popou'i ha war pe elimination of human life?? p koe me'a ia 'ae what you call political theology... koe fehu'i pe foki he ko hota feleni... I want the best wine...and you owe me that..
 
talk to you bro later

Sent: Sun, January 10, 2010 2:29:22 AM

Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga o hoku tofi'a/'inasi?

Ben Mysteryman
hey bro seni!! male e lelei fefe hake?? kuo kamata pe keu sai'ia 'iate koee... pea ke tala ki oxford moe cambridge... koe 'uhinga ia 'e na ako'i au ke 'oua teu toe ngaue 'aki 'ena tikisinali....  kau hoko pe au ia koe tohi ako makehe... 'ofa pe ke ke pehe mo koe!!  koepolitical teolosia ia moe economika teolosia ko hono toki define pe kinaua ia he senituli 16th .. na'e 'ikai ke 'i ai ha me'a pehee ia.  study e hisitolia 'oe teolosiuationa ...  koe tohi mahu'inga taha pe BOOK mahu'inga taha ko koe!!! keu fanongo ki ha fa'ahinga me'a 'oku original...  koe kokii ia koe koe manupuna pets pe ia 'ae kau tu'umaliee..

stan palu

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Jan 12, 2010, 3:10:57 AM1/12/10
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Koe 'book' mo'onia 'a 'etau life experiences.    'Oku hoko 'etau failure mo 'etau toonounou koe faiako 'iate ia pee kihe 'etau mo'ui.  Koe me'a ia 'oku fakatonulea'i koe Laumalie Ma'oni'oni 'oku ne tu'u 'o fai hotau taukapo'i 'ihe taimi kotoa.  'Oku ne hoko koe faiako 'ihe 'ene fou mai 'i hotau konisenisi 'ihe taimi 'oku tau toonounou 'ihe 'etau fakakaukau, pea moe taimi 'oku tau too ai kiha faingata'a tupu meihe fa'ainga fakakaukau na'atau fakahoko.  'Oku toe hanga pe 'ehe Laumalie Ma'oni'oni 'ihe 'ene fou mai 'i hotau konisenisi 'o tataki kitautolu kihe ngaahi lelei keheee, talu mei hono fanaui'i kitautolu 'o a'u kihe 'aho ni.
-----------------------------
Kataki kae ki'i fakamaama mai ange ho'o fakamatala 'i 'olunga..ko e fe me'a 'oku fakatonulea'i koe laumalie ma'oni'oni?????'oku kehekehe nai 'ae konisenisi moe laumaliema'oni'oni????'oku hangee ia 'oku na tatau pe kinaua 'i he anga ho'o fakamatala....malo
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Daphne Taukolonga

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Jan 12, 2010, 5:55:37 PM1/12/10
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Stan
 
Ko ho'o toe kole mai pea ke fakamatala'i 'e koe hona kehekehe.   'E lelei ange i ha'o 'omai 'aki ha sitaution na'e hoko tonu kiate koe ke mahino ange ai hona kehekehe. 
 
daphne


--- On Tue, 12/1/10, stan palu <paeai...@hotmail.com> wrote:
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seni taniela

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Jan 13, 2010, 12:34:17 AM1/13/10
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Ko e taha e liliu fakamuimuitaha he saienisi e politikalee ko e toe fakaakeake e teolosia e politikale (the revival of political theology) he kamata’anga e senituli uatahaa.  Ko e ‘uhinga lalahi ‘e ua e toe fakaakeake ko ‘enii: 1) ko e faka’au ke malohi e mosilemii he mamani ‘aia ‘oku nau ha’I fakataha enau lotu mo enau ngaahi me’a fakapolitikalee(political theology); 2) ko e fakautuutu e kau e kau Kalisitiane he politikii, tautautefito ki Amelika ni, tupu mei he fakatokanga’I kuo malohi fau e ivi e kau ta’etui’Otua he mala’e politikalee.

Ko e definition ‘o e political theology ne ‘oatu kimu’a, ka ko e definition ‘eni ‘a Mark Lilla mei he Univesiti Columbia, “it’s an expression of an age old human quest to bring the whole of human life under God’s authority.”

Kimu’a he kuonga e enlightenment ‘o e senituli 18, ne mahino e fakataha e lotu moe politikale he ngaahi pule’anga fakatu’I ‘o ‘Iulope (kau atu mo e ha’atu’I ‘o Tonga).  Me’apango ko e fakataha ko ‘enii, ne fakapelepela ai e politikale he lotuu pea mo e lotu he politikalee.  Pea ‘oku ai e mo’oni ‘a Ben Mysterymann, lava ke tau fakatonulea pehee’i e vaa ‘o Tupou 1 mo e kau misinalee. 

Neongo e fefakapelepele’aki ko ‘enii, ko e taha e argument ‘a Lilla na’a ne pehee, “ne ‘ikai ke hoko pee lotu ko e me’a ke ne fakatupu e ngaue kovii, ka na’e toe hoko foki ke hoko ko e me’a ke ne faka’ai’ai e ngaue lelei”  (religion provided a deep well of ideas and symbols for organizing society and inspiring action for good…). 

 

Talu mei he senituli 18 mo e kamata ke teke’i ‘e he kau saienisi e politikale ‘o onopoonii e political theology fakataha mo e political philosophy.  Neongo ne fofoa’I e modern political science ‘e Machivelli he senituli 15 nai he’ene tohi ko ia ko e “The Prince.”  Teke’I  e political theology ke ‘oua ‘e toe ‘ai ke kau mai e ‘Otuaa he ngaahi me’a ‘a e tangatgaa.  Teke’I e filosofia e politikalee koe’uhii ko e tui ‘a Socrates, Plato etc ko e fakamaau totonu ‘e ma’u ia mei tu’a (outside us human beings).  Neongo ne ‘ikai tuhu pau e kau filosefa Kalisii ki he ‘Otuaa ka na’e ofi ‘enau fakaofiofii ki he ‘Otua, ofiange he kau saienisi politikale ‘o onopoonii.

 

‘Oku fakaanga’I e Harvey Mansfield ‘o Harvard e foungaako saienisi politikale e ‘aho ni ki hono fakali’eli’aki e filosofia e politikalee.  Pea fakaanga’I ‘e Mark Lilla ‘o Columbia ‘a e li’aki ‘o e teolosia e politkalee.  Ko hono ‘uhingaa ko e modern political science ko e politikale hala ha ‘ulungaanga….politics without morality. He ko e nunu’a e li’aki ko ‘enii ‘oku haa ia he kau Tonga ne ‘osi ako politiki mei USP mo NZ, Aust, US etc he 80’s mo e 90’s etc, ‘enau fokiange pee ki Tonga ‘o fa’ofua he temokalatii.  Hangee temoo ko e savior ia e palopalema fakapolitikale ‘a Tongaa.  ‘Ikai ha’anau sio ki he ngaahi me’a ‘e makatu’unga ai e lelei e temokalatii.  Malo mo e taimi ni e kamata ken au sio ‘oku hala e fa’ofua ‘ata’ataa he temokalatii…fiema’u e lotu ke ne fai ha liuanga.

 

Kaikehe, ko ‘eku fakatonulea ‘a e “mali” ‘a Tupou 1 mo e kau misinalee, malo mo e lotuu mo ‘ene ta’ota’ofi ‘a Tupou 1 mei he kovi ne mei koviange(committing a greater evil).  Kaikehe ka faka’ata’aki e fale’I ‘a Makiaveli ‘e peseti 100 ‘a Tupou 1 he me’afua e Machiavellian modern political science.  Ko e taimi ne hopo hake ai ‘a Tupou 1, ko e fihi fau e tu’unga ‘oku ai e fonuaa.  Ofi mai e ngaahi pule’anga malohii ke kolonia ‘a Tonga, kei malohi e lotu hitenii, movetevete fonuaa, huu mai e lotu Kalisitiane.  Ko ia ko e ne ne ma’u e mafai ko e ola e “survival of the fittest”.  Ne mei feefee kapau na’e ‘ikuna ha hou’eiki hiteni ka e fo’I ‘e Tupou 1? Ne mei fefee kapau na’e ‘ikai ha’u e kau misinalee?  Tonga was on the crossroads…for better or for worse.  Kapau na’a ko ha taki politikale kalisitiane koe taimi ko ‘enii, te ke fakaava ha matapaa ke “fai ha fakamalohi” ke fa’utaha e fonuaa fakapolitikale?  Pe te ke ngaue’aki pee “’ofa fakaSisu Kalaisi”?  Tuku ai pee ‘a Nomuka, ‘Uiha etc mo e ngaahi motu matanga ngata’a mei he lotu motu’aa ken au toki ului pee ha nau taimi mo e ‘Otuaa?  Is it morally justifiable for a government to use force for the sake of unity?  Mahalo ne tui ‘a Tupou 1 ka ‘ikai tali e lotu fo’ou he’ikai ha political unity.

 

Kapau ‘e hanga ‘e ha taha fakamaau’I faka’ulungaanga ‘a Tupou 1 (making a moral judgment), ‘e tu’u mei fee  ‘o fai ai e fakamaau ko ‘enii?  He’ikai lava ‘e ha taha faka’ikai’Otua ‘o fai ha fakamaau faka’ulungaanga kae’oua pee ke ne tui “moral laws exist” eg. it’s evil to murder, to  rape etc.  Kapau leva ‘oku tau pehee  ‘oku ‘iai e moral law, kuo pau ke ‘iai e moral law giver, pea ko e taimi eni e huu mai ai e political theology.  God has to exist in order for us to define what is evil in and out of politics.

 

Mahalo pee ne ngaue'aki e Tupou 1 e tofi'a ke 'uhinga 'e ua --1) ko e mo'ui'anga (to'o mei he uhinga fakatohitapu Ko Sihova e tofi'a e kau Livaite); 2) ko e kelekele(to'o mei Tonga-- a cultural and political term...ke fakamahino ko e pule fakatu'i).  Ka e hangee ko e ngaahi talanga kimu'a, kapau ko e moto ko e me'a ke tau 'ai 'i loto...Ke lea pehee e taha kotoa.

 

Kapau 'oku tau tui ne tulaafale 'a 'itaniti hono fatu e uho fakapolitikale hotau fonuaa, taa he'ikai te tau 'ausia lelei tahaa ta'etetau foki 'oku kumi ki he me'a mo e taumu'a ne taa ki ai hotau uhoo.

 

‘I he 2008 nai ne ma felingiaki mo tv.pe ‘oku tonu e kau e lotu he politikii pea ko e tv. Ne ne pehee ‘oku totonu.  Neu faka’ikai’i.  Ko e taimi ni, ‘oku ou tui ki he fakakaukau 'a tv. pea ‘oku tonu ke ‘iai e new political experiment ‘I Tonga…merge politics and theology, monarchy and democracy.  Ka 'oku ou tokanga lahi kuo pau ke mahino e fo’ilaine manifi( a fine line) he vaha’a e ngaue lelei mo e ngaue kovi he taimi e fakataha e lotu mo e politikalee.  Kuo pau ke fai e ako mei he pre-enlightenment period mo e politikale ‘a Amelika talu mei he 1980 tupu ki he taimi ni ke ‘oua na’a tau fai e fehalaaki ne hoko ‘I ‘Iulope pehee ki he involvement e kau evangelical he politikale ‘a Amelika he faka’osinga e senituli 20 mo e kamata’anga e senituli 21, ke 'oua na'a tau too ki he pelepela tatau.

 

 

 

 

Sent: Tue, 12 January, 2010 3:55:37 PM
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Ke to'o ho tu'asila mei he memipa ki he Tasilisili, email ki he tasilisili-...@googlegroups.com
Pea ko e website 'a e Tasilisili ko e http://groups.google.com/group/tasilisili
See what's on at the movies in your area. Find out now.--
'Oku tufa atu e email ni koe'uhi 'oku kau ho tu'asila he memipa 'i he "Tasilisili-he-ngaluope"
Ko e tu'asila ke 'ave ki ai ha'o email ki he Tasilisili ko e tasil...@googlegroups.com
Ke to'o ho tu'asila mei he memipa ki he Tasilisili, email ki he tasilisili-...@googlegroups.com
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sfaupula

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Jan 13, 2010, 1:24:59 AM1/13/10
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Malie lahi ia Seni he 'oku tokoni ia ki hono fkkaukau'i 'e he kalisitiane 'a e ngaahi social policies 'e taau ke poupou'i mo ta'epoupou'i. Malo
 
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stan palu

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Jan 13, 2010, 11:10:23 AM1/13/10
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Daphne,
 
Kataki pe he fehu'i he ko e konga ko ee ho'o lave ki he konisenisi moe laumalie ma'oni'oni 'oku ongo mai 'i ho'o fakamatala pea koe anga ia 'ene mahino kiate au koe ongo me'a pe 'oku tatau. Koe fie'ilo pe koe fe me'a 'oku ke fakatonulea'i koe laumalie ma'oni'oni 'i ho'o talanoa...koe kole pe ke fakamaama mai... Koe tohi a'usia 'oku ke lave ki ai 'oku ou tui 'oku kei si'i 'anoa pe ha'aku ia a'usia ke fonu ai ha tohi pea na'a moha la'i pepa  'e 'ikai pe.... malo
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:55:37 -0800
From: sioelina...@yahoo.com.au
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Daphne Taukolonga

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Jan 13, 2010, 6:06:13 PM1/13/10
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Stan
 
Ko 'ena kuou 'osi respond atu 'ihe tepile 'evangelioo'.
 
daphne
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Daphne Taukolonga

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Jan 13, 2010, 6:20:33 PM1/13/10
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Seni
 
Koe theology studies 'oku kau ai moe ako kihe 'Otua 'ihe 'ene fou mai he kosipeli moe 'ataakai moe ngaahi 'events' na'e hoko 'i mamani talu meia Sisu 'o a'u mai kihe 'aho ni.   In other words, koe study of theology 'oku ne 'cover' 'a e houa 'e 24, 'aho 'e 7 'a e mo'ui 'a e tangata 'i hono vaa moe 'Otua pea kau ai mo hono 'environments', you name it, from politics, to health system to economics etc. etc.. 
 
'Oku hangeee 'a e fakamatala 'a e fu'u kakai ko 'ena 'oku ke referees mai 'aki na'e 'ikai ke 'cover' 'a e politics and economics 'ihe study of theology ka ko hono toki 'cover' mai pe 'ihe 'enau 'research' ki honau phds, comeon! of course they have to make it sound as the first time! hehehehe.   
 
Koe 'uhinga ia na'e takimu'a ai 'a e kau taki 'o e Siasi (the late Patelesiofinau & Havea) 'ihe democracy movement 'a Tonga meihe 1970's/1980's,  na'e 'osi a'u atu pe 'enau ako 'ihe theology kihe economics & politics?   'E toe foki 'a mamani kihe founga fakaTupou I? 
 
 
daphne
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seni taniela

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Jan 13, 2010, 9:10:30 PM1/13/10
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 Daphne Taukolonga sioelina...@yahoo.com.au

Koe theology studies 'oku kau ai moe ako kihe 'Otua 'ihe 'ene fou mai he kosipeli moe 'ataakai moe ngaahi 'events' na'e hoko 'i mamani talu meia Sisu 'o a'u mai kihe 'aho ni.   In other words, koe study of theology 'oku ne 'cover' 'a e houa 'e 24, 'aho 'e 7 'a e mo'ui 'a e tangata 'i hono vaa moe 'Otua pea kau ai mo hono 'environments', you name it, from politics, to health system to economics etc. etc.. 
 
'Oku hangeee 'a e fakamatala 'a e fu'u kakai ko 'ena 'oku ke referees mai 'aki na'e 'ikai ke 'cover' 'a e politics and economics 'ihe study of theology ka ko hono toki 'cover' mai pe 'ihe 'enau 'research' ki honau phds, comeon! of course they have to make it sound as the first time! hehehehe.   
 
Koe 'uhinga ia na'e takimu'a ai 'a e kau taki 'o e Siasi (the late Patelesiofinau & Havea) 'ihe democracy movement 'a Tonga meihe 1970's/1980's,  na'e 'osi a'u atu pe 'enau ako 'ihe theology kihe economics & politics?   'E toe foki 'a mamani kihe founga fakaTupou I? 
==============================================
'E Daphne
 
'Ikai ke fu'u mahino kiate au pee ko e haa e me'a 'oku ke ta'efiemalie aii.  Hangee 'oku ke fisi'ia he 'iai e me'a ko e political theology. 
 
Ko hai mo koe 'oku ke fakaanga'i 'a Harvey Mansfield ko e Professor of Govt. i Harvard talu mei he 1962, 'o tala ko ene fakamatala ki hono Ph.D.  'Oku ke loi, he ko ene  Ph.D ne ma'u pee ia he 1960 tupu...ko e fakamatala neu 'oatu ko e konga ene fakamatala he 2005 ki he me'a 'oku hoko tonu he political science.  Pehee ki he fakamatala 'a Lilla he 2007, kuo fuoloa e ma'u hono Ph.D. Talanoa he issue 'oku lave kiai e ongo tamaa.  Pehee mai 'oku loi e lau e ongo tamaa kae'oua e pae pehee talanoaa, ta'engali talekita ia 'etau SNM mo e shareholder he'etau pisinisi vai mo tv.
 
'E Daphnee, kapau ko ia ko e theology 'oku ne cover e tafa'aki kotoa, ko e haa koaa kuo toe ui e me'a he ako teolosiaa ko e Pacific Contextual Theology kae 'ikai theology 'ata'ataa pee? Toe huke ho'o tohi teolosia pe ko e haa koaa kuo ui ai e motu'i teolosia 'e taha ko e Liberation theology.  Na'a ku toe talaatu kimu'a ke ke toe sio pee ko e haa koaa kuo 'iai e me'a 'oku ui ko e theology of global warming.  'Oku 'iai mo e course theology he ngaahi 'apiako e ni'ihi ko e Theology of Change.
 
Hangehangee ko e 'uhinga hono fahi pehe'i koe'uhii ko e ope atu 'a e 'Otuaa.  Ke mahino 'Ene founga he tapakehekehe mo'ui kuo pau ke tau tofitofi hifo ke mahino.
 
Fakatokanga'i 'oku kei palai e feohi e politiki mo e siasii.  Toe palai mo e founga pisinisi e kau lotuu 'enau pusiaki'i e founga pisinisi e mamanii.  Fiu kumi ha taha politikale mo pisinisi 'oku mo'ui faka'Otua (godly politician/business man).
 
Fakatokanga'i 'eni Daphne.  Talu e kamata e movement Temo pea neu 'alu ki he achive he site a Konivesio e temokalatii, te'eki ai ha taha te ne he'aki e fo'ilea "NON VIOLENT RESISTANCE" neongo 'oku 'asi pee ngaahi lea ki he melino.  Ko e fo'i palai ko 'enii, 'oku 'ikai 'ilo ai 'ehe kakai ko e haa e me'a te nau faii.  Pea kuo fakaoli ai e kau lotu he ngaue'aki 'e he kau politikalee.  Sio ki he inconsistency e kau takii e siasii (Katolika & SUTT etc.) he'enau involve he politkii.  Kehe kau palesitenii toe kehe e kau faifekauu...mo e kakaii.  Palesiteni 'e ni'ihi nau active he poupou ki he temoo, palesitenii 'e ni'ihi nau fakalongolongo...kau faifekau 'e ni'ihi nau haupapa e pule'angaa he televisone, kau faifekau 'e ni'ihi nau haupapa e temoo.  Toki e'a e ta'emahino he 16/11.  Tukukehe kapau 'oku kehekehe 'Otua 'oku fai ki ai 'enau lotuu.  Haupapa 'e Rev Simote Vea mo Manase Tafea e pule'angaa, kae taufale'i atu 'e Rev. Palu ('ikai ko Ma'afu Palu) e kau temoo.
 
Daphnee, 'oku 'osi 'ilo 'ehe poto mo e poto e process e mavahe e politiki e mamanii mei he lotuu he ngaahi senituli kimu'aa, tukukehe 'a Tonga.  Pea neongo e fakataha 'a e politiki moe lotu 'i Tonga, ka ko e kau ako politiki mo e ni'ihi 'oku ako politikalee 'oku teu'i nautolu he fakakaukau 'oku 'ikai ha fakamahu'inga'i ai e 'Otuaa.  'Eva atu ki he va'aako politiki 'a TAFE ooops 'o vakai pe 'oku 'iai ha political theology ai. Toe keheange kau lotu 'oku 'i lotopolitikalee 'a e talamai e tuku e lotuu ia 'i tu'apeito ka nau fai atu nautolu i hee.  Huanoa ka a'u mai e mali gay issue, abortion etc...
 
 Pea na'a ku talaatu 'a e nunu'aa ko e 'osi mai pee 'etau kau ako politikii hangee ko e smart move ke nau fa'ofua he temokalatii, 'ikai ke nau toe sio ki ha tafa'aki pe malanga'i mai e ngaahi makatu'unga (conditions) 'e fakafalala ai ha lelei e pule fakatemokalatii.  Pea 'oku 'iai e kau 'akatemika mo kau politikale 'oku nau argue ke 'oua na'a kau mai e lotuu he politikalee 'i Amelika ni.  'Oku ou tui ko e me'a 'oku hoko i Amelika 'oku ne uesia 'a  TOnga 'i he liloo.  'Oku ai e kau ako progressives mo e kau politiki eg Akilisi ko 'enau kei tukulolo pee ki he lotu 'i Tonga ko e malohi e ivi e culture 'a Tonga 'oku o fakataha mo 'enau lotu.
 
Fefee ke ke 'uluaki define mai e fo'ilea na'a ke ngaue lahi'aki ko e "HAUASM" he sisu Haua, pehee ki he sisu Tongaa kau  tui ki ho'o pole'i e fakakaukau neu tuku atuu. 
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Daphne Taukolonga

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Jan 13, 2010, 11:06:22 PM1/13/10
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Seni
 
'Uluaki fakama'opo'opo mai ho'o talanoa kae toki hoko atu 'eta fepotalanoa 'aki.  Koe haa 'a e kaunga 'o e SNM kihe talanoa 'oku fai?  Koe lau ho lahi koe haa 'oku ke fakafuolahi ta'eta'e'uhinga pehe ai?   'Oku mo'oni pe ho'o lau 'oku ou ki'i feel insulted ho'o fo'i palakalafi ko ia, and let me reconfirm to you that I am proud to be a woman, yes a Tongan woman! hehehehehe.  
 
Luelue lelei pee he 'oku ou lolotonga tui hoku suu exercise, pea ki'i talisi'i hifo ho'o tupetupe'i mai 'a e kau ako harvard ko 'ena he na'e te'eki ke mole ange ha'anau fo'i pateta hono fafanga 'a Tonga.   'Oku lau miliona 'a e kakai 'i 'Aositelelia ni 'oku te'eki kenau fanongo kinautolu 'ihe kalasi ko 'ena? pea mahalo ko koe pe Tonga kuo fanongo 'ia kinautolu ka 'oku ou fie'ilo lahi 'aupito kia kinautolu he 'oku nau fu'u mahu'inga kuo nau ma'u ho loto koe Tonga pea koe 'uhinga pe ia 'eku mahu'inga 'ia 'ia kinautolu.
 
Seni, kapau na'e lava 'ehe 'eku tangata'eiki ke totongi 'eku ako 'i Harvard, kuo fuoloa 'eku phd mai mei ai 'ihe theology, kae pango koe si'i tangata'eiki na'e ma'u pe 'ene mo'ui 'ihe fua niu, hehehehehe. 
 
Kaikehe, teu toki talanoa atu, kae 'oualeva ke kai ange 'emau toopai.
 
daphne
 
daphne
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Daphne Taukolonga

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Jan 13, 2010, 11:25:31 PM1/13/10
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Kataki pe Seni ko 'eku fakatonutonu atu, 'oku 'ikai koha talekita au 'ihe Sioeli Nau Mission, koe 'ofisa fetu'utaki au, pea 'oku vaveni pe hono tuli au meihe lakani ko ho'o fo'i comment. 
 
Koe Talekita 'o e SNM 'i Tonga ko Sione Tupou 'o Houma Tongatapu.
 
'Oku 'iai 'a e Komiti Poate Pule 'ae Sioeli Nau Mission pea 'oku 'ikai keu kau au 'ihe komiti pule'i 'o e SNM.
 
daphne


--- On Thu, 14/1/10, Daphne Taukolonga <sioelina...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
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seni taniela

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Jan 13, 2010, 11:59:14 PM1/13/10
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 Daphne Taukolonga sioelina...@yahoo.com.au

Luelue lelei pee he 'oku ou lolotonga tui hoku suu exercise, pea ki'i talisi'i hifo ho'o tupetupe'i mai 'a e kau ako harvard ko 'ena he na'e te'eki ke mole ange ha'anau fo'i pateta hono fafanga 'a Tonga.   'Oku lau miliona 'a e kakai 'i 'Aositelelia ni 'oku te'eki kenau fanongo kinautolu 'ihe kalasi ko 'ena? pea mahalo ko koe pe Tonga kuo fanongo 'ia kinautolu ka 'oku ou fie'ilo lahi 'aupito kia kinautolu he 'oku nau fu'u mahu'inga kuo nau ma'u ho loto koe Tonga pea koe 'uhinga pe ia 'eku mahu'inga 'ia 'ia kinautolu.
==============================================
'E Daphne,
 
Ko e palopalema 'oku tau fangatua mo ia he mamani fakafiefia ni, palopalema faka'ekonomika, fakapolitikale, faka'ulungaanga koe ola e ngaahi fakakaukau (consequences of ideas--philosophical, theological, political, economic etc)...'oku 'ikai koe ola ia e ta'e'ilo kihe vocational education 'oku ke luo taha aii...ko e ola ia e classical education hangee ko Atenisii.  Ko ai ai , 'oku pukupuku fau ho'o nofo taha hono malanga'i e ako vocational hangee 'oku sesele pule'angaa ho'o fakaanga'i e sistemi he taimi nii.
 
Ko e 'uhinga ia 'eku tui ki he fakafepaki'i e tv ho'o luotaha pee ako vokaasio kae 'ikai ha matapaa ke fakamo'oni'i e lesoni he Sapatee 1 Kol 12... e ai pee ni'ihi 'oku tonu ke nau ako vocational, pea 'iai e ni'ihi 'oku totonu ke nau ako ki he classical education...eg Atenisi. mo e ngaahi ako kehekehe.  Ne fokotu'u e tv ke 'oua e ai e false hope 'o pehee pee ka 'ikai pee ma'u ha'o vocational education koe ngata ia e mamanii.
 
Fakatokanga'i e laui miliona 'oku 'oatu 'e he kau nofo muli kau ai 'a Amelika ni ki Tonga koe'uhii ko e tu'umaliee mo e tau'ataine e fonua ni, mo e fonua na, ko e consequences of ideas...good ideas in practice.  Ke lele lelei ho'o ako vokasioo, kuo pau ke 'iai political/econmic system lelei, ke 'iai political system lelei 'e tokoni atu ai 'a Mansfield.
 
Sio ki he ma'ulalo e talanoaa, 'ikai ke ke pehee mai 'oku loi pe hala e me'a 'oku lave kiai e ongo tangata neu 'oatu, ka ke lau 'e koe 'oku ou fiepoto etc..ho'o post kimu'a etc...Tuku e fanongo mo ta'efanongo 'ia Mansfield, talanoa he issue moe poini 'oku talanoa kiaii a Mansfield...ko e me'a ia teu poupou lahiange ai ki Atenisi 'i ho'o ako vocational...he teke teu'i e koe kau ako ngaue kae li'aki ke teu'i e ni'ihi ke nau faitu'utu'uni ki he political and econ structure e fonuaa 'aia 'e lava ke ne fakamasiva'i e ako vocational oku ke fakalelee.
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Daphne Taukolonga

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Jan 14, 2010, 12:45:43 AM1/14/10
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Seni
 
Teu toomui 'ihe 'eku lelue ka teu feinga pe keu lave si'i atu kihe tafa'aki ko 'eni felave'i moe Voc. Ed..  Teu toki foki ki ho'o fakamatala kimu'a ha lahi 'oe taimi.  Koe tangata mahu'inga foki koe pea kuopau pe ke 'oatu 'a e fakamatala 'e malava ke mahino ai 'a e kakapa atu kiho taloni.
 
Kaikehe, 'oku ou sai'ia ho'o lave mai kihe vocational education koe 'uhi keu fakamahino'i atu ai leva kiate koe, na'e conclude 'a e tui koe vocational education 'e malava ke si'isi'i ange ai 'a e palopalema 'a Tonga moe Pacific 'o fakatefito 'ihe ngaahi fakatotolo na'e fakahoko. 
 
Telia na'aku tomui 'ihe lelue,  na'e fai 'a e fakamatala 'a e Director 'o e Ausaid 'a 'Aositeleli ni kihe SNM 'oku nau fiema'u ke 'omai 'a e ngaahi proposal 'a Tonga kihe Ausaid (AUS $22,000,000 available) 'o fakatefito 'ihe ngaahi projects felave'i moe vocational education.  Ko hono 'uhinga he kuonau 'osi fakahoko 'a e ngaahi fakatotolo pea mahino koe konga ia 'o e ako 'oku vaivai 'aupito ai 'a Tonga pea moe pacific kotoa, tukukehe 'a NZ mo 'Aositelelia ni. 
 
Ko ia ai Seni 'oku 'ikai ke fo'ou 'a e fakamatala ni ia kihe pule'anga Tonga he kuo nau 'osi femahino'aki kinautolu ai moe pule'anga 'Aostelelia ni, pea koe fakamatala tonu pe 'ena 'a e Ausaid felave'i moe Vocational Education.   'Oku 'iai 'a e fakamatala 'oku confidential ka 'oku ou 'amanaki pe 'oku mahino atu kiate koe 'a e tafa'aki ko ia kihe Voc Ed.  'Oku tau kai kolekole kitautolu pea kuopau ketau fai 'a e me'a 'a e kai kolekole koe talangofua kihe ngaahi fiema'u 'a e international donors. 
 
Ko hono ua, ko 'Aositelelia ni 'oku too 'enau fakamamafa pea tatau pe mo Nu'usila kihe vocational education 'aia 'oku 'iai 'ene kau lahi kihe tu'unga faka'ikonomika mo hono langa hake.  
 
'Oku tupu 'a e 'ikai lahi ha export 'a Tonga meihe 'ikai ke lahi 'a e 'ilo fakangaue (employment skills), pea koe konga pe ia 'o e vocational education.  'Oku 'ikai teu ofo au Seni 'i ho'o fakaikai'i 'a e Vocational Education pea mo TV he koe language fo'ou ki he kakai Tonga tokolahi kae tautefito kia kimoua.
 
teu toki talanoa atu, sorry atu, have to run....hehehehe.
 
ofa atu kiate koe Seni, keep it up!
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seni taniela

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Jan 14, 2010, 1:21:41 AM1/14/10
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Taaa'ahine Daphne
 
'Oku lolotonga fai 'eku metitaasio, koofesio, mo e konifimaasio he taimi ni, Kepaleli 'eni 'oku tali hifo, ko e teu 'eku malanga he kaveinga e mahinaa:  'TAU FEINGA KE HAA ATU 'A SISU HE'ETAU "TASILISILI"--he kuo te ongo'i kuo te faiangahala ki he langi kae tautonu ki he feitu'u na, 'oku 'ikai teu kei taau ke lau ko koho business partner he'etau kautaha vai mo tv.
 
Kataki foki mo 'etau vocational edu. ki he'etau tepilee, na'a tau fakaveve he tepile ko 'enii. 
 
'E fai e teu malangaaa, na'a toe nenefu hoku fo'i lotoma'aa ki he Sapatee!!he 'oku lolotonga hinehinaange he sinouu ko e lahi e too e sinouu homau feitu'uni!!!!!
 
Malo mu'a e mamahi'i 'etau akoo, ka teu toki lave atu kiai ko e tesi'i pe koe!!
 
Agape,
 
seni

Sent: Wed, 13 January, 2010 10:45:43 PM
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tv

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Jan 14, 2010, 3:38:49 AM1/14/10
to Tasilisili-he-ngaluope
Ko ‘etau tasilsili mo Daphne ‘oku toki mo’oni e lau himi ‘a e tama
Vava’u:

SISU LAMI HE 'OTUA
NA'A KE TAMASI'I 'I MU'A
PEA U FIE FAI 'ALAA
(pea ala hake to’o hono matasio’ata lautohiii, too mai kimu’a hono
kumukumu he funga tu’unga, pea fakatotoho mai e le’oo moe laine
faka'osi e himi ...)
HE SIPI NA'E HEE ...

tv

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Jan 14, 2010, 4:23:39 AM1/14/10
to Tasilisili-he-ngaluope
Kau ki’i afe au ‘o fokotu’u atu ha afo mei a Paula fekau’aki mo e moto
‘o Tonga.

Koe talanoa ‘o e ‘Ekisoto (tu’u ‘a ‘Isileli mei ‘Isipite ‘o ‘alu he
toafa) koe fakataumu’a ki he Fonua ‘oe Tala’ofa (tau maheni mo ia ko
Kenani). Koe palomesi ko eni ‘a e ‘Otua ki Kenani ko e “tofi’a” ia
‘oku hanga ki ai ‘a ‘Isileli mei he’enau tu’u ‘o ‘alu mei ‘Isipite.

Koe tu’utu’uni ia ki ‘Isileli - Ko ho’omou tauhi e ngaahi tu’utu’uni
‘oku ‘oatu (lolotonga e fononga ‘Ekisoto), pea te tau a’u ki he tofi’a
ko ia (Promised Land – Kenani), nofo ai ko e kakai ‘a e ‘Otua, pea
nofo ai e ‘Otua ko honau taki. Pea ko e me’a leva na’e hoko he
lolotonga ‘a e fononga ‘ekisoto ko ‘ene fononga mo kinautolu koe
Pou’ao (he ‘aho), pea Pou-maama (he po’uli).

'Oku pehee leva:
• Koe tofi’a ee kuo fokotu’u (Promised Land as inheritance)
• Tau pehee pee kuo ma’u he kuo mavahe mei ‘Isipite
• Ko e a’u ki ai ko e tauhi e ngaahi tu’utu’uni ne tuku mai
• ‘A ia koe aleapau/palomesi (agreement/contract/promise); tofi’a
(fonua/kelekele) ke mou nofo ai mo au – that’s my part of the
agreement. Mou tafa’aki koe tauhi ‘eku tu’utu’uni (keep my
commandments – your part of the contract)
• Toe ta’ota’o atu pee he contract: teu fononga fakataha pee mo
kimoutolu – Pou-’ao (‘aho), Pou-maama (po’uli); keu tokoni ki he
‘ekisoto (fafanga mo fkinu), pea u mamahi ho’omou talangata’a.

‘Efeso 1:14
‘Oku ngaue’aki ‘e Paula e “iheritance”, ko 'ene feinga ke fakafoki mo
fakalanga ‘a e fakakaukau ‘o e (‘ekisoto). Ko e "guarantee of our
inheritance", ko hono fakatoka ki he kakai 'a e anga 'o e
fononga'anga. Ko e whole point of the Holy Spirit pea mo hono fatongia
ko 'ene Pou-'ao mo Pou-maama, because the whole world become God's
peoples' inheritance! (ko AU 'a e 'Isileli fo'ou - Sisu ia!) Pea ko
kinautolu 'oku tui mo muimui kia Sisu, koe kakai 'a e 'Otua (Israel in
the Exodus), pea ko e mamani 'a hota tofi'a 'oku ne palomesi mai ke ta
inherit - ke hoko ko htoa tofi'a. You & I inherit the world!

Ko e feinga ia 'a Paula ke fakamatala 'a e pekia mo e toetu'u 'a
Kalaisi pea pehee ki he hoko mai 'a Laumalie Ma'oni'oni ko hota tataki
ki he inheritance/tofi'a 'oku palomesi mai. Vakai kihe 'uhinga 'a
Paula; mei he Pasova kihe Kolo-e-Tala'ofa! Pasova ko e fakamanatu e
hiki atu 'a e fononga mei 'Isipite, ki he Toetu'u (Kolo-e-Tala'ofa).
Ko Sisu ia! Ne pekia & toetu'u he Pasova, hili 'aho 'e 50, toe foki
mai he Laumalie Ma'oni'oni! Fakatokanga'i 'ae talanoa 'oe 'ekisoto.
Mavahe mei 'Isipite, hili 'aho 'e 50 nau a'u mai ki Mo'unga Sainai.
Kaka Mosese 'o hifo mo e "lao" (tablets of covenant).

Ko e teolosia ia 'o e Laumalie Ma'oni'oni pea mo hono fatongia mo 'ene
ngaue 'oku feinga 'a Paula ke fakatotoka mo fakamatala (in particular
Loma 8). Tohi Hepelu 'oku ne talamai ko e pekia & toetu'u 'a Kalaisi
ne ne to'o kotoa mo faka'ataa ai 'a e ngaahi fatongia faka-"lao" (the
new Israel). Palomesi mai ke ta inherit the world. Not easy ka ko e
Laumalie Ma'oni'oni ena ke Pou'ao & Pou-maama ki ho'o fononga. ('oku
'ikai fakata'e'aonga'i kinautolu 'oku hiva hopohopo, valevale lau, pea
mo too vilo, he ngaahi siasi ni'ihi). But the theology behind the Holy
Spirit is for God's people ke pou'ao mo pou maama he'eta 'ekisoto 'oku
fai ni kihe fonua 'o e tala'ofa!

BUT, you have to keep the part of the agreement Israel! Tauhi 'eku
ngaahi tu'utu'uni he lolotonga e fononga'anga! He'ikai faingofua he ko
e kakai kia fefeka kitautolu. Launga 'oku 'ikai tuku, faai atu pee
langa e ngaahi kafi koula, fai pee hotau loto ... etc. That does not
mean 'oku ne li'aki ai kitautolu. Kei tangi pe mo toupili (in the for
of the Holy Spirit) he ko 'ene palomesi.

'Otua mo Tonga ko hoku Tofi'a
'Oku ou tui pe na'e a'usia 'e Tupou 1 e visone 'a Paula. Ka 'oku ou
malie'ia he'ene fokotu'u e moto - God & Tonga my inheritance. Ko 'ene
fakapipiki e 'Otua, hangee 'oku ne pehee - ka ke mama'o mei he 'Otua
Tonga, ko e kulanoa ha'o feinga ke inherit the world! i sincerely
believe he pipiki ki he ngaahi mo'oni fakatohitapu ne 'uluaki fokotu'u
- Tupou 1 made a covenant with God, and reading Tonga's history 'oku
tauhi 'ehe 'Otua e tafa'aki 'o e konituleki. ko e palopalema pee 'o
Tonga ko e 'ai ke tau langa kafi koula, ke tau maumau'i e ngaahi lao
'oku ne kole mai ... ke maumau'i ekonituleki 'aki e ngaahi 'uhinga 'a
mamani.

Vakai'i e kau politiki mo 'enau me'a 'oku 'ai ke fai ki Tonga na'a nau
maumau'i e konituleki ne 'osi alea'i. Tukukehe ka kuo 'osi hono taimi,
pea feinga'i ke toe alea'i ha konituleki fo'ou! Ka mou tokanga .....
na'a Tonga mo Siaina, moe Ako Vokasio mo 'Aositelia, pea mo e 'Otua
('o ka faingamalie) ko hotau 'inasi!

Daphne Taukolonga

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Jan 14, 2010, 5:34:58 PM1/14/10
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TV
 
sai ho'o humai he kuo longoa'a atu hono tu'uaki'i 'e Seni 'a e kau political scientists 'a Harvard 'i Tasilisili ni, he takoee ko koe 'ene referee no. 1, hehehehe, kataki atu 'oku ou vale 'aupito au 'ihe fakakata, 'oku ou lotoma'a 'aupito au pea 'oku faingata'a keu toe fakakaukau 'oku 'iai ha taha 'e fasifasi, hehehehe.
 
Na'e folofola'aki 'e Sisu, monuu'ia 'a e loto ma'a he tenau mataaa 'a e fonua, hehehehe. 
 
daphne


--- On Thu, 14/1/10, tv <ti.va...@gmail.com> wrote:
--
'Oku tufa atu e email ni koe'uhi 'oku kau ho tu'asila he memipa 'i he "Tasilisili-he-ngaluope"
Ko e tu'asila ke 'ave ki ai ha'o email ki he Tasilisili ko e tasil...@googlegroups.com
Ke to'o ho tu'asila mei he memipa ki he Tasilisili, email ki he tasilisili-...@googlegroups.com
Pea ko e website 'a e Tasilisili ko e http://groups.google.com/group/tasilisili

Daphne Taukolonga

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Jan 14, 2010, 5:59:17 PM1/14/10
to tasil...@googlegroups.com
Seni
 
Na'ake toutou talamai  'i ho'o ngaahi fakamatala 'ihe tepile ni na'e 'ikai keke tui tatau mo Tevita Vaikona,  ka koe taimi ni kuomo tui tatau. 
 
Fakamolemole atu, na'e te'eki keu lau 'e au ha fakamatala 'a Vaikona,  pea he'ikai teu assume ha fa'ahinga issue na'ane 'osi taukapo'i.  'Oku ou manatu'i 'ihe ngaahi tepile kimu'a na'e mahino mai na'e lahi ange ho'o tui 'oku fakapikopiko 'a e kakai tokolahi pea ko kinautolu 'oku tupu ai 'a e toolalo 'a e tu'unga faka'ikonomika 'a Tonga.  
 
'Ihe konga ko 'eni kimui ni mai, teu fiefia kapau teke hanga 'o fakatonutonu'i mai kapau 'oku hala 'eku ma'u ki ho'o lau.  Ko ho'o taukapo, felave'i mo hano apply 'a e political theology 'i Tonga,   'oku totonuu ke to'o ki tu'a ha fo'i tokotaha 'oku tangutu 'ihe mafai 'okapau koha me'a ia ke lelei ange kihe tokolahi 'o e fonua?  
 
Kapau na'e 'i heni 'a Mansfield, teu lea ange ki ai, "Kuo pekia 'a Kalaisi pea toetu'u; koe me'ani 'oku 'ikai tui ia 'oku lahi 'anoa hono lelei moe mafai 'o e 'agape'  'ihe ngaahi palopalema faka'ikonomika 'oku tau tofanga ia 'i Tonga?  Koe fehu'i, 'e anga fefe hono solova 'o e ngaahi palopalema?   'Oku fa'o nai 'ihe visone 'a Tupou I 'ihe moto 'o Tonga?
 
'Oku hangee kiate au ko Mansfield na'ake lave ki ai koe Political Scientist?  pe koe Theologian?
 
Seni, 'oku ou fakamolemole'i koe 'under the banner of agapee', ko hono 'uhinga he koe fo'i lea koe 'fiepoto' na'ake tukuaki'i hala 'aki au na'aku lea 'aki atu kiate koe 'oku' ikai ke tu'u ia 'ihe 'eku dictionary, personally 'oku ou toonounou, ka 'oku ou tulituli ke 'accept' 'a e ngaahi blessings 'beatitudes' na'e tala'ofa 'aki 'e Kalaisi 'oku fakafou mai 'ihe 'ene Kelesi 'ihe 'aho kotoa.
 
ofa lahi atu
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Talakai Finau

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Jan 14, 2010, 7:23:21 PM1/14/10
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Malie Lahi!!!
 
tkf
 
> Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 01:23:39 -0800
> Subject: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga o hoku tofi'a/'inasi?
> From: ti.va...@gmail.com
> To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
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Ben Mysterymann

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Jan 14, 2010, 4:22:16 AM1/14/10
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Daphne mo Seni kole ange ke 'asi atu 'eku lau he koe tu'o fiha 'eni 'eku respond atu moe 'ikai ke 'asi mai...   mahalo pe ko'ete kau ki he famili kehe ..... koe funi pe... faka'amu pe.... talala ange kia nausori ke tokoni mai... hehehhe..

Sent: Wed, January 13, 2010 10:45:43 PM

Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga o hoku tofi'a/'inasi?

Seni
 
Teu toomui 'ihe 'eku lelue ka teu feinga pe keu lave si'i atu kihe tafa'aki ko 'eni felave'i moe Voc. Ed..  Teu toki foki ki ho'o fakamatala kimu'a ha lahi 'oe taimi.  Koe tangata mahu'inga foki koe pea kue 'asi opau pe ke 'oatu 'a e fakamatala 'e malava ke mahino ai 'a e kakapa atu kiho taloni.
--static--liam_party_bottomright.jpg

Ben Mysterymann

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Jan 13, 2010, 3:34:08 AM1/13/10
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" God is Love"...

From: seni taniela <seni...@yahoo.com.au>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 8, 2010 3:45:43 AM
Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga o hoku tofi'a/'inasi?

Ben Mysterymann <tonga...@yahoo.com>

Political theology,  Economic theology... ??? ko hono fakalea totonu ko hono ngaue'aki e teolosia ke fakafefeka 'aki ha mafai fakapolitikale 'o ha taha pe fa'ahi fakapolitikale... pe koe ngaue'aki e teolosia ki he fakatupu  pa'anga...  eg. ko hono ngaue 'aki e fakakaukau ke fakafefeka'i 'ae pule 'a ha tu'i 'aki hono fakamalohi'i 'oe kakai ke nau kau ki fa'ahinga tui 'oku tu'uaki'i 'e he taki fakapolitikale ko ia... tatau heni e kalisitiane moe mosilemi...  pea kuo ngaue'aki 'ehe ngaahi pisinisi lalahi 'i mamani 'ae ngaahi principles fakakalisitiane ki he commitment 'ae kau employees 'o lelei ange ai e lele 'ae ngaahi pisinisi... vahe lahi aie kau CEOs..... hehehe..
==================================================
Mahalo pee Peni Tangaamisiteli 'oku ki'i too kitu'a e lau fakamahamahalo ko 'ena 'i 'olungaa. Na'aku pehee pee 'e 'osi pe ho'o haupapa kimu'a eku ngaue'aki e ongo fo'ilea ko 'enaa pea ngata ai ka ko 'ena 'oku kei hokohoko atu pee.
 
Feefee ke ke 'uluaki define mai e political theology pea ke toki fai e tukuhifo'i e fakakaukau kuou tuku atuu. 
 
Abusing of political theology or politicizing of political theology is totally different from the neutral and amoral existence of the concept as a tool to be utilized in the field of political thought.
 
Mei he Oxford Concise Dictionary ko e 'uhinga e Political theology. A Christian concern to explore the implications of theology for political life and thought. 'Oku ai dark side of political thology i hono hisitoliaa kae hangee ko dark side e fo'i lea "siasi" he 'ikai 'uhinga te tau fakapuna kitu'a e fo'ilea siasi mei he senituli 21
 
Ne 'omi 'ehe 'Eiki e faingamalie keu ako e ki'i me'i politiki he malumalu e faifekau Prebyterian 'oku Ph.D he political Science pea to e M.Div pea ko e kamata'anga ene lecture kotoa ko e lau e veesi folofola pea lotu....pea 'oku ne fakahoa e ngaahi e theories he politikale mo e tohitapu and he uses that term political theology throughout the year etc.
 
Ko ho'o lave ki he economic theology ko e fananga ia 'e taha. 
 
'I he 2008 ne 'omi 'e he 'Eikii e faingamalie keu kau atu ki he seminaa he Univesiti Columbia ko e ongo tama mei he va'a ekonomika e univesiti Cambridge ne na ha'u 'o introduce 'ena theory he pisinisii.  Neongo ne 'ikai ke na ngaue'aki ha fo'ilea fakalotu ka kiate au ko e Kalisitiane, ko e 'u principle fakalotu na'a na ngaue'aki.  na'a na gaue'aki e lea ko e social, spiritual capital etc. (Ko e ngaahi me'a 'oku lave kiai 'a tv. , oku laine taha mai moe theory e ongo tamaa.)   Pea u 'ohovale he'ena fakamamafa'i lolotonga e seminaa  e private property e kakai e fonuaa ke alleviate e masivaa(malo Tupou 1).  Pe ko hato ki'i motu'a fale pee konga kelekele etc..that's the starting point.  Kaikehe 'i he 'osi 'ena seminaa na'a ku 'alu atu 'o fakatalanoa peau 'ilo koe ongo Kalisitane one of them is an ordained minister he Siasi Ingilani...pea ko kinaua neu fanongo mei ai e fo'ilea ko e business/economic theology. 
 
 from the definition of political theology I figure out that business theology is simply about exploring the implications of theology for business life and thought.  ka ke ako ki he politiki you will definitely deal with political philosophy...ko e me'a tatau ki he history of economic thought..sai te tau tuku pee ki he kau filosefa 'o ono'ahoo ke nau pule'i e fakakaukau e politikii mo e pisinisii???pea te tau kumi pee 'oku ai ha lau e theology ki he politikii?
 
'i he'ene pehee leva, ko ho'o lau 'i 'olungaa 'oku hee mama'o, and it's a strawman argument...you brought up a caricature of political theology and whipped it as if it is the real issue.
 
Malo ho'o haupapa 'a Tupou 1 mo e kau misinalee, ka ko 'eku faka'ataa e hisitolia e politiki i Tongaa, fakatatau ki he maama fakaako mo fakalotu e senituli 18-19 teu pehee Tupou 1 is my political hero laka mama'o he kau politiki e ngaahi 'aho ni...simply because he accomplished more for the "common good" than these well-learned politicians of the 21st century...
 
'Ikai ngata aii, ko ho'o fakamaau'i e agafai 'a Tupou 1 mei he tohitapu ko e political theology ia...'oku ke me'angaue'aki e me'afua fakalotu ke fua'aki e me'a fakapolitikale.  Koe'uhii ko e modern political science ne kamata mai e Machiavelli 'oku totally justify e using force to keep your power...I can argue that Tupou 1's action is justified as political leader...a machiavelian..'aee 'oku lolotonga hoko he politiki 'i Tonga he 'aho ni "Either you use force to eliminate your enemy" or "You keep you friends close, but keep your enemies closer" --that's modern political science without religious moral judgment...Fakatokanga'i e va'inga fakapolitikale 'a Tupou V 'ene disarm e kau Temoo...ko Teisina antimonarchy ena kuo minisitaa!!! I wonder pee 'e kei tu'umalohi ai pee ki he fakamaau totonuu pee 'e tokanga ki hono lakangaa na'a mole faingamalie ki he kapangakoo!!
 
toe fakatokanga'i na'e fa'u e moto "mixing of religion and politics" after he accomplished his political goal--to unify Tonga..
 
 kaikehe, kapau te tau sio fakalotu ki hono piokalafii te au lava 'o sio ne 'iai e liliu loto he'ene mo'uii pea kou tui ne ne lave he fakamo'ui hotau 'Eiki ko Sisu Kalaisi.  Na'a 'oku mo'oni 'a Churchill, "Sometimes we need to use evil to protect the good"

Ben Mysterymann

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Jan 13, 2010, 1:50:12 AM1/13/10
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Seni , you have some good argument here...  and please allow me you to say what I want to say... first of all  do not know much about the american takes on philisophy.. it means koe kau masonaries pe na'a nau kamata 'ae pule'anga 'amelika... pea hange kiate au ko Humes 'oku ne influence lahi taha 'ae anga e mo'ui 'ae kakai 'i 'amelika... 
 
bro 'oku 'ikai foki ke 'i ai ha defenition ia 'a taha 'e toe sai ange ki ate au he'eku defenition 'i ha fa'ahinga me'a pe... ka 'oku ke 'ilo'i pe te tau faka'apa'apa pe ki he lau hotau ngaahi tokoua he mala'e ko'eni he kuohili...  koe lau kia maikaveli 'oku mo'oni pe mo ia he context pe 'oe tukunga 'o 'itali moe fa'ahinga politikale ko ia 'oe kuonga ko ia...  ko 'itali koe taha pe ia e fonua kuo nofo ta'e palesiteni he lau mahina kae kei lele lelei pe e fonua ia... koe fehoko taki ia e politika 'a 'itali moe politika 'a tonga pea base ia e lau 'a maikaveli....
 
Seni kiate au mo 'eku tui koen'uhinga e tau'aki fakapelepela koe feinga ke fakafaikehekehe'i e "unconditional Love" moe ngaahi policies ia 'oku ne hanga 'o fakangaloku e 'ofa ki he masiva moe kakai 'oku nau fiema'u lahi...  manatu'i koe lao ia 'oe sosaieti 'oku fa'u ia 'o fakatatau ki he fiema'u 'ae upper classes... he ko e  myth ia toku koe pehe koe tu'umalie ange 'ae tokosi'i  koe lahi ange 'ae ngaue 'e lava 'o tukuatu ki he kakai... 'omi ki he context 'i tonga...me'a'ani  'e lava 'ehe motu'a 'oku ngaaue ha falekai pe ngaue fakapule'anga 'o fafanga 'aki 'ene faimateaki he ngaue hono famili... 'ikai kuo pau ke toe ngoue.. pea toe kole kihono famili muli ke nau tokoni mai.... koe worse ia bro.. koe pehee p 'e he tonga ia 'oku 'ikai ke fit enough ia ke ne tokoni'i pe hono famili 'i tonga... [ palopalema fakasaikolosia].....
 
thank for the post... I will come and say more from my side on this post...
 
later
Sent: Tue, January 12, 2010 10:34:17 PM

Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Ko e 'Otua mo Tonga o hoku tofi'a/'

o
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