Re: Fakatokanga ki he teu feinga liliu temo 'i Tonga--ola 'oe fakaanga ta'efakapotopoto
seni taniela
Ko e fale'i 'a Theodore Roosevelt ko e palesiteni fuoloa 'o Amelika ki he kau politiki he ta'u 1894:
"Ko e 'uluaki tefito'i fatongia 'o e kau politiki ko e ngaue kae 'ikai ko e fakaanga. 'Oku 'aonga e fakaangaa ka he'ikai tene fetongi e pau ke tau hoko ko e kakai ngaue(men of action)....Pea kapau 'oku tau fakaanga pea fakaanga fakapotopoto(intelligent criticism)"
Ko e fakaanga fakapotopotoo 'oku 'ikai ko 'ete generalise 'o ngaue'aki pee 'a e foilea "pule'anga" 'o hangee 'oku kovi kotoa e kau ngaue he pule'angaa. 'Oku totonu ke te fakamavahe'i e kakai 'oku te pehee 'oku nau faikovi he loto'i pule'anga pea te fakahikihi'i e kakai 'oku nau fai lelei he pule'angaa--koe lau ia 'a Roosevelt.
He koe nunu'a 'o e ngaue'aki e fo'ilea "pule'anga" (eg. 'oku kovi e pule'angaa),'oku nusi fakataha 'e he kakai e kau faitotonu pea moe kau faihala he loto'ipule'anga pea ko hono ola leva--1)ko e 'ikai toe falala e kakai ki he ngaahi ongoongo fakapolitikale pea fakapiko'ia he politikalee 2)ko e ongo fakapolitikale(political instinct) 'oe kakai kuo faka'au ke nenefu(blurred) pea mo tutuli ki hono fakamaau'i e me'a 'oku lelei pe kovi 3)'ikai ke nau toe sai'ia he ngaahi me'a fakapolitikale
Ko e peseti pee 'e 48 'o e kau lesisita ne nau kau he fili ne toki 'osi..koe faka'ilonga 'o e faka'au ke fakapipiko ki he kakai tokolahi e politiki pea ko e nunu'a ia 'o e fakaanga ta'e fakapotopoto 'a e kau Temo.
Koe fale'i 'a Harvey Mansfield 'o Harvard ki he ako ki he filosofia 'o e politikalee(political philosophy)--koe ako ki he tangata fakafo'ituitui he politikalee(individual character) 'oku 'ikai ko e ako pe ki he fa'unga pe sisitemi fakapolitikale pea ko e taha ia e kehekehe 'o e saienisi politikale( political science) pea mo filosofia 'o e politikalee(political philosophy).
'Oku ai nai ha'atau kau helo he mala'e politikalee ke hoko ko e motolo ki he to'utangataa ka hokoo--hangehangee 'oku lahi e pee kau "crooks" he politikale tongaa...'ikai ha kau Siaosi Uasingatoni pee Epalahame Lingikoni pe Gandhi..koe kau Karl Marx pee--he ko 'ene tefito'i ngaue koe nofolaipeli pee moe fakaangaa, pea moe kau Stalin pee, moe kau leka 'oku fute mo hikituu'i honau kauva'ee ka 'ikai 'oange 'e mami ha'anau fo'ilole.
Kole ki he kau Temo--'ai mo fakamole ha taimi he fekumi ki he founga ke tokoni ki he 'ekonomika... 'ai ke hoko e fakaanga ko e side-job pee ke fakasi'isi'i ai e masivaa..kae tuku hono fakapolitikale'i e masiva(politicizing of poverty) 'o hangee koe kovi 'ata'ataa pe 'a e pule'angaa he koe fo'i fananga ia kuo lele he initaneti. Fele 'ae ngaahi tupu'anga 'oe masiva kuo te'eki ke nau lau pe fai ha ngaue ki ai
Toki hoko atu
Seni
Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
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Taniela Sila
Seni,
Toe ki'i fakamahino mai ange ho poini......... te tau 'uluaki feinga ke liliu e tu'unga fakapolitikale pe koe 'ekonomika.....hange ka au ia ko kala makisi ia kapau 'e 'ikai liliu e tu'unga fakapolitikale koe koto laufanoo ha toe feinga 'ekonomika 'oku fai.'oku hange tokua pe ia hano 'utu mai e tahi 'o lingi he 'one'one
ki'i hunuhunu pe
Nela
> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:45:36 -0700
> From: seni...@yahoo.com.au
> Subject: [tasilisili] Re: Fakatokanga ki he teu feinga liliu temo 'i Tonga--ola 'oe fakaanga ta'efakapotopoto
> To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
seni taniela
> Toe ki'i fakamahino mai ange ho poini......... te tau
> 'uluaki feinga ke liliu e tu'unga fakapolitikale pe
> koe 'ekonomika.....hange ka au ia ko kala makisi ia
> kapau 'e 'ikai liliu e tu'unga fakapolitikale
> koe koto laufanoo ha toe feinga 'ekonomika 'oku
> fai.'oku hange tokua pe ia hano 'utu mai e tahi
> 'o lingi he 'one'one
==================================
Ko e taha founga faka'ekonomika ne fatu ai 'a e temo-'amelika ko e "free market capitalism"--faka'ataa pee ki he fetuukuaki e maketi ke ne fakafuofua e mahu'inga makatu'unga he feliuliuaki e supply moe demand
Humai pee temo--kau temo pisinisi 'o 'ita he kau siaina koe'uhi 'e mate 'enau ngaahi falekoloaa he ma'ama'a e kau siaina...kapau ko e kau temo mo'oni --'oua 'e toe hanu he kau siaina
'ikai ne tokoni e kau siainaa ke tau fakatau pea toe seniti ke kumi 'aki ha va'a papa...'e kovi ki he kau falekoloaa ka 'e sai ki he customer mo e ngaahi pisinisi kehee....hanga atu ke temo feinga ki he pule'anga ke ta'ofi e kau siaina...pea 'oku nau violate e principle o e temokalati, pea toe violate mo e "free-market economy", violate moe totonu 'oe minority
ko hono 'ai 'e tahaa...ne 'ikai ke nau fokotu'u ki he pule'angaa ha economic system 'oku democratic...they are full of contradictions!! koe'uhii ko e bottom line--ilifia Uliti, Ofa Simiki etc he holo 'enau koloaa etc...
koe govt. intervention ko e founga fakasocialistic--fakakominiusi pea mo fakatu'i..pea 'oku tau feinga ke fakasi'isi'i e govt intervention in the market....pea ko e faka'ataa ehe pule'angaa 'ae kau siaina--it was a democratic move...coherent with democratic principles...kae fakafepaki kiai e kau temo...
ko e fanaga 'e tahaa ko e equality 'oku nau feinga ki ai...koe lau 'a e pulee/palesiteni 'o harvard he 1921 Dr Eliot "only despotism can bring equality"--pea ne toe pehee democracy will create inequality--ko e fo'i fananga e feinga ke tau tatau---its a pie in the sky...unrealistic...koe 'uhinga ai 'oku fa'a makape hake ai e kau tikitato mei he temokalati...koe'uhi koe te'eki ai ketau 'ilo pe koe haa solution to some foreseeable political troubles...so many times we try to bring equality..we end up committing a greater evil
Ko e taimi pe te tau feinga ai ki he equality te tau maumau'i e freedom, maumau'i moe temokalati...ko Thomas Sowell 'o Stanford 'oku fele ene discuss e fananga 'o e feinga ki he equality...ngali ongo lelei...but not as simple we think
ko e ako ki he "poverty" mo hono ngaahi tupu'angaa 'oku te'eki fai hano taalanga'i...koe taimi nii ko e tuhu pee ki he pule'angaa...pea tau pehee ka tau temo te tau tu'umaliee--koe fananga ia 'e taha!!
'oku ai e 'uhinga 'e 133 kehe 'oku hoko ai e masiva...pea 'oku totonu ke fai ki ai ha tokanga--pea koe political structure he taimi ni 'oku ai 'ene konga...ka koe fakapulou'i 'e Akilisi e kakai 'o pehee ka 'ikai te tau liliu we are hopeless...
kaikehe 'e foki fai ha tisikasi e founga mo e taimi ne fakapolitikale'i e masiva 'e he kau politikii--hoko i AMelika pea ngaue'aki ke ma'u e loto e kakaii etc
'oku ou tui ke fai ha liliu ka 'e makatu'unga he lue fakataha, unity of the people...
Ka trace e tu'umalie 'a Amelikaa--HARD WORK WAS ONE OF THE PRINCIPAL CAUSE--
kaikehe 'ofa atu
seni
tv
pongipongi he ko e toki fakaakeake mai.
pick up ho'o lau ki he te'eki temokalati 'a 'api & siasi, 'ai ia 'oku
matu'aki fakatu'utamaki ai 'a e feinga liliu. mo'oni fau ia. But I
have reasons to believe ko e nofo 'api 'i Tonga has changed alot in
recent years!
masi'i, na'a ke loloa fakamuimui 'i Tonga 'anefe? kehe taimi ni ia mei
hota taimi. ta'u kotoa lahi e feohi mo e fanau he sipoti/va'inga.
'ouaaaa .... pea ko e siasi? ko e politiki ia he 'aho ni 'oku nga'unu
ke 'ilonga ange he Siasi. One of it's proof ko e lahilahi e fanga
ki'iki'i Siasi - ko e mavahe (mavahe ka e kei 'i he loto'i tokateline
pe).
I think you would agree that the recent election should be a litmus
test for what the people prefer to be happening in Tonga (people who
care enough to engage). ko Mark Twain ko aa na'a ne pehee - there are
3 kinds of lies; lies, darn lies & statistics. The quoted 48% 'oku
ha'u mo hono ngaahi felefele which means, it is still up for
scrutinising. He koe statistic 'oku ne talamai 'Akilsi actually has
more support this time around! Which is amazing considering the number
of candidates.
And who voted? - people who cared enough? people who knows how to
vote? people who pay bills? educated people? Or the result could
easily be said ko e vote 'a e kakai ko 'enau faka'ita ki he Pule'anga?
- especially supressing the freedom of speech through the media.
Kiate au, koe liliu ko e tahi hu'a mai. (more or less what the church
need to do). Unfortunately the two sides are at each other's throat
and somehow something will have to give sooner or later. The current
system isn't working (shown by a political election), pea ko e
temokalati 'oku te'eki ke mahino pee 'oku fe'unga mo Tonga. You have
presented the theories, based on what has happened elsewhere. My
suspicison tells me there will be a third party that need stepping in,
he 'e 'ikai punou ee ki hee. That would still be change. I think the
govt tried to pull one over by allowing Dr Halapua to do what he did.
Whatever happened to his recommendations? May be you need your info a
bit more thorough, if not you are in danger of sounding like what the
current government is doing in Tonga - they just insult people's
intelligent and also, they don't like admitting they haven't got it
right either.
'Oku lelei hono talamai he'ikai sai e Temo ki Tonga, ka 'oku hangee pe
ena ia ko e kolenga mai 'a Potungaue Mo'ui ke tuku aa e kai sipi, ka e
vakai pee ngaahi me'atokoni fk-tonga. Hangee kiate au Tongans keep
buying sipi not because they don't know it could be a greater evil, ka
'oku ifo ange sipi hono ma'u 'aki e haka manioke. Kuo faka'au ke
ta'eoli e 'umaki, neongo 'ene fkamo'ui ange. But hey, the secret, I
heard, is that everything becomes destructive when taken too much.
Fefee ke tau Temo moderate pee? Which could also be seen as monarch
moderate pe mo ia. And I think (I heard), that's the suggested changed
being made.
Ka ko e ta'alo pee mo e fk'ilonga atu
tv
ki he to'utangataa ka hokoo--hangehangee 'oku lahi e pee kau "crooks"
he politikale tongaa...'ikai ha kau Siaosi Uasingatoni pee Epalahame
Lingikoni pe Gandhi..koe kau Karl Marx pee--he ko 'ene tefito'i ngaue
koe nofolaipeli pee moe fakaangaa, pea moe kau Stalin pee, moe kau
leka 'oku fute mo hikituu'i honau kauva'ee ka 'ikai 'oange 'e mami
ha'anau fo'ilole.
Good question! 'Ikai keu lave'i pe ne 'i ai ha lau 'a e kau paipa
tasilisili ki he news mei Tonga ki he tangata ne ne fai e hia ki he
ki'i ta'ahine kei si'isi'i, pea tautea ta'u 8 'apee? Kapau ne 'i ai,
'e malie hano huke hake, ka ko 'eku mahalo ne lahi e faka'ise'isa mo e
('ita), he tautea 'ene (nounou) loloa, mo e haafua!
Ko e malie taha kapau ne faatokanga'i 'e he kau Tasilisili tatau pee,
'a 'enau kei pehee ke fakamavahe politiki mei (fie)lotu. Ka ko e haa
'oku tau toe mole atimi ai he talanoa'i e tauatea 'oku hilifaki 'e he
(politiki) ki he fa'ahinga hia pehe ni? 'Ikai ko e kau Tasilisili
tatau pee 'oku hange e'oku nau fakasiosiokehe mei he fili falealea 'o
'ai koaa ke tau mo'ua pee ki he ngaahi lesoni faka-uike? Jesus brought
his disciples to break bread with them in private, he ko 'ene teu ia
kinautolu for a public gospel. What happened he 'aho Penitekosi ko e
declare publicly 'e Pita & the rest a new Lord (instead of Casear)
Now your question - do we have political figures? Ko e toki hiki mai
eni ki he kolo 'o Wilberforce (Hull). He was just a politician! Kolo
tatau ne tupu ai 'a Robert Raikes ko e kainga pee 'o William
Wilberforce. Mahalo tokolahi te'eki fanongo he hingoa ko ia. Raikes
na'a ne kamata e Lautohi Fk-sapate. Ko 'ene fakakaukau ke ako ai si'i
fanau 'a e kau masiva, 'a ee na'e 'ikai ke nau ako he lolotonga 'a e
uike ka na'a nau ngaue kinautolu he ngaahi factory. And it was just
normal school & not learning about bible.
We don't need great politicians in Tonga where we are now. Mahalo 'e
au 'oku fiema'u ha kau helo he Siasi. He ko e kau fakafofonga katoa I
suspect they all go to church. What a great opportunity to give them a
cause to live our the gospel in their public life. Much like the two
I've mentioned from history. Ko e me'a pee 'oku to'oto'o 'e he kau
fakafofonga he taimi ni ko e me'a 'oku 'oange 'e he kau malanga. And
that I dare think about. Hangee kiate au 'oku kau 'a 'Akilisi ki he
Koni 'a SUTT he ta'u kotoa? If not, I always see him he
fakalotofale'ia 'a e Palesiteni. I wonder what he takes away? but
that's me just wondering! Ko hai e kalasi 'aho 'oku kau ki ai 'a
'Isileli Pulu? Vakai atu ki Houmakelikao he 'oku hangee kiate au 'oku
Siasi ai?
Mahalo ko e ngaahi faingamalie ia 'oku tonu ke tau puke nimaa. Ka
tukunoa'i pee 'enau kaikaila he liliu fa'unga mo e hafua, he ko e anga
fakapolitiki pe ia. What are the opportunities opened up for us
through these guys?
Sepesi
>
> Ko e taha e founga fakakauleka'o e politiki 'o e Temo Tongaa ko e hoko
> 'a e fakaanga ta'efakapotopoto(unintelligent criticism) ko 'enau
> founga tu'ukimu'a(principal political strategy) ia he mala'e 'o e
> politikale kae 'ikai ko e ngaue ki he fakalakalaka 'o e fonuaa.
Malo Seni,
'Oku tau hoha'a pe foki he 'oku toe hotau kainga 'i TOnga pea 'ikai
ngata ai ka 'oku 'iai mo hotau kelekele, ka 'oku ou pehe ne fai e e
matavalea hono fakalele 'o Tonga, 1]'i hono fka'ita'i 'e he kau Temo e
Pule'anga pea mafuli hake Pule'anga ia 'o 'ita 'aupito. Koloto kenau
ki'i play politics 'o pehe tau ki'i fka'io'i e fo'i 'ai koee 'a e
Temoo(he 'oku 'ikai fkparts) katau tapuni'i ee, kehe pe ke mahino ki he
Temo 'oku fanongo e Pule'anga.
2]Ko e matavaivai 'e taha, na'e totonu ke ongo'i 'ehe Pule'anga 'oku nau
taukave'i ha mo'oni ma'ae kakai, hange eni ia kuo hinga kotoa 'a e kakai
ki honau ngaahi fakafofonga, pea ko e Pule'anga leva ko e Kau Minisita
pe, mo'ene 'Afio 'o 'ikai ke 'iai ha kakai, fu'u vaivaifu'u ia ke ta'ofi
'e Kakai.
3]'Ikai ha to e taha he Pule'anga ke feinga ha veipa Fakapolitikale mo
'Akilisi he TV eg. Palemia ke tipeiti mo 'akilisi he Policy pea tuku e
kakai ke fakamaau mo telefoni atu ki ha hot line 'o fakapeseti ai ki
naua, kehe ke ongo'i 'e he kakai 'oku tau'ataina honau kau fakafofonga
pea 'oku feinga mai mo e Pule'anga ki he Kakai tatau pe.
Ngalingali ko e liliu 'e hoko, ka 'oku ou faka'amu pe ketau kei 'i he
Pule'anga fakatu'i. Manatu'i ko e Palemia ne 'uhinga 'e ne Falealea he
na'a ne fkkautaha kia 'Akilisi, pea hange kiate au 'oku manavahe pe ia
'ia 'Akilisi.
kaui talanoa pe, ka e mahalo 'oku 'auhia atu 'i mineva.
Sepesi.
seni taniela
--- On Mon, 28/4/08, tv <ti.va...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Fefee ke tau Temo moderate pee? Which could also be seen as
> monarch
> moderate pe mo ia. And I think (I heard), that's the
> suggested changed
> being made.
>
===================================
Malo tv e fao...
totally agree ki he sai e moderate temo/monarch...but I don't think it's NOT a good idea to try to remove the king's absolute power...unless he agrees to do so.
I think Tonga can create a system where there is a merge of democracy and monarchy--something that the world has never seen!!!!
kaikehe ko 'eku tali ki ho'o pehee 'oku temokalati e ngaahi famili tonga koe'uhi nai ko e movetevete e siasi pea 'asi moe ngaahi fakafepaki 'oku 'ikai keu tui kiai pea ko hono 'uhinga 'eni.
1)Ko e rebellious i 'api, 'apisiasi etc.he kuonga ni..'oku 'ikai koe rebellious fakatemokalati...ka ko e ola e ta'au e kuonga moe nunu'a 'o e fakakaukau 'o e postmodernism. Ko e fehi'a ki he mafai(rejection of authority, rejection of truth or transcendent morality) 'o tatau pee 'i he teolosia, pe politikale etc.'oku fehi'a ke 'iai e me'a ko e authority...lahi e sio vitioo pea 'oku fielahi pea violent e to'utangata ni.
Ko e 'elemeniti mahu'inga 'oe temokalati 'oku te'eki 'asi he ngaahi famili fakatonga pe ngaahi 'apisiasi--KO E LAVA KE ALEA--PEA LAVA KE FAKALELEI E KEE(conflict resolution)...eg. te'eki ke tau a'u average tongan family ki he me'a ko e talanoa fakatemokalati 'i 'api--mahalo ko e mamongaa pee !!ka 'oku fele 'a e rebellious 'i 'api 'a e fanau ki he matu'aa pe koe tikitato 'a e matu'aa, pe koe fa'ifa'iteliha pee 'a e fanau...'i he ngaahi 'apisiasi ko e 'ingo pee ha motu'a he faifekauu ko e 'ikai toe lava ha me'a ko e conflict resolution...koe fokotu'u siasi ia e motu'a koia..'oku tau vale hee kee!!KO E KEE PE KOE FELONGLONGOI IA..etc
mo'oni ho'o lau ki he ngaahi me'a 'oku hoko 'i 'api moe 'apisiasi...ka kiate au 'oku 'ikai ko ha faka'ilonga ia 'o e fakatemokalati ko e faka'ilonga pee ia 'o e ta'au 'a e kuongaa!! and that's dangerous
fokotu'u atu ki he kau faifekau--fai ha seminaa he nofo mali moe tauhi fanau...ka lelei 'a 'api e sai e politiki...
koe average tongan family--'oku disconnect e tamai moe fanau...pea ka lahilahi moe movevete 'a 'api 'e nifi kae nafa 'etau politiki
tv
form. Ka 'oku ou tui 'oku lelei e fo'i fakakaukau 'iate ia pee (much
the same as alot of others). Ka ko hai ia 'e poto hake pee he kee. Ka
ko e faka'ilonga ia 'o e liliu 'oku hoko (as you rightly say - ko e
ta'au 'o e kuonga socially & culturally). And there is always a first
time for everything & there is never a right time.
I hate to think 'oku kei vale 'a 'Akilisi he kee after all these years
as a parliamentarian. If anyone who knows how to kee fk-temokalati he
should be the best Tongan to know, shouldn't he? Or the leading
politician who probably knows his politics (Tongan politics) more than
anyone - including you & I. For that, we must give him his due. And
those who vote for him.
There must be a change in Tonga! Ko e me'a mahino ia. Ki he ha? we
don't know, and that's why we present our cases & views. For the
current King to hold on to absolute power is a nice try, but almost
impossible. Why? Because he has not given enough reasons to do
so .... . Like, democracy - the monarch system we currently have is
fine. Ka ko hono reflection 'oku excessively used in this day & age.
Perhaps too much monarch for the ta'au 'o e taimi 'i Tonga. Ko e me'a
'oku ngali mahino mai ho'o lave, ko e liliu 'e from down upwards. from
the local upward to the govt. Ko e me'a 'oku ongo ko e maumau mo e
mistake 'e tuku ke fai 'i 'api 'o kaka ai ki 'olunga and when it
reaches the top, then whoever in power would say ... OK lets make some
changes.
Tuku ke si'i 'alu e tamai hee, 'alu e fa'ee hee 'o feinga'i ha income
ke lava ha haka he mamafa pehee 'a e koloa. 'Asinga ai he ko e
feinga'i ke lava mo e kavenga he Siasi. Pea ha'u ai e fanau 'oku tv
pee mo hanga ki he holisi, get bored and start doing this & that. Ko
'ene faai atu pee 'o kau ai mo e maumau lao, he 'oku unattractive
'aupito e ngaahi polokalama 'i 'api Siasi, pea laka leva ki pilisone.
'Alu atu ki pilisone 'oku 'osi fu'u tokolahi, and .....
Let the chinese take over the market too. I know first hand how
corrupted the chinese are in Tonga. the amount they pay the govt
officials so they can get their containers thru is unbelievable. The
way they have boats going out to meet e 'uu vaka toutai he kei 'i
moana 'o bribe the tongan fishermen ke 'oange 'enau fangota 'oku
tooatu mo ia. What you & I forget the chinese are the most enterpise
people in the mamani. Let them in Tonga and they'll do what they do
best.
My point? mahalo 'oku vote e kakai the kau Temo in to parliament for a
reason. Pea 'ikai ngata ai ka e hangee 'oku 'ilo 'e he kau fakafofonga
'enau politiki more than us! Ka e toki fai ha hoko atu ....
seni taniela
> Tasilisili tatau pee,
> 'a 'enau kei pehee ke fakamavahe politiki mei
> (fie)lotu. Ka ko e haa
> 'oku tau toe mole atimi ai he talanoa'i e tauatea
> 'oku hilifaki 'e he
> (politiki) ki he fa'ahinga hia pehe ni? 'Ikai ko e
> kau Tasilisili
> tatau pee 'oku hange e'oku nau fakasiosiokehe mei
> he fili falealea 'o
> 'ai koaa ke tau mo'ua pee ki he ngaahi lesoni
> faka-uike? Jesus brought
> his disciples to break bread with them in private, he ko
> 'ene teu ia
> kinautolu for a public gospel. What happened he 'aho
> Penitekosi ko e
> declare publicly 'e Pita & the rest a new Lord
> (instead of Casear)
Kou tui pee 'oku te'eki ke tau tatau he'etau faka'uhinga ki he pehee mavahe 'a e "lotu moe politiki"--ko 'Amelika ni ne fatu 'i he fakakaukau ko iaa..pea teu feinga ke fakamahino
1) 'Oku 'ikai 'uhinga ia ke tapu 'e tau talanoa mo tipeiti ki he ngaahi me'a fakapolitikale hangee 'oku tau fai he peanga ni.
2)'Oku 'ikai 'uhinga ke ta'ofi 'etau oo kau he politikikale--ko MCcain ko e faifekau ne meimei fuluka
3)'Oku 'ikai 'uhinga ia he'ikai te tau nofo 'ata'ataa pee ta'ekau ha ngaahi me'a fakapolitikikale
'Oku 'uhinga ki heni
1) 'Oua na'a hanga 'e he palesiteni Uesiliana 'o tala 'i falelotu--prodemo/protu'i
2)'Oua na'a oo e kau lotu 'o tapui e sapate pee hangee ko 'etau konisitutone pee koe fai e lotu i falealea
3)'Oua 'e 'alu e faifekau 'o pehee koe view eni 'a e Uesiliana 'oku 'ikai ke mau tali e keii ko ia ai fa'u ha lao ke tapu e kei
4)'Ataa ki ha siasi ke fakafepaki he ngaahi issue 'oku black and white he folofolaa eg. ka feinga huu mai ha casino--i think it's biblically black and white--sai ke involve e siasi
5)'Ataa ki he siasi ke nau fili ha fakafofonga 'oku nau loto kiai--ka e faka'ehi'ehi e kau faifekau mei hano endorse anyone as if it is the will of God...or any system of governemtn as if God has endorsed any specific political system..etc
Ko hono 'uhinga e "separate e church and state"--church AS AN INSTITUTION--eg. Uesiliana--
1)ko hono 'uhinga he te tau violate e 'u principles 'o e temokalati...eg.koe tapu 'o e sapatee--ka tau temo 'oku tonu ke ngofua e sapate, he te tau maumau'i freedom of religion 'a e kau mosilemi moe kau atheists.etc..he koe argument 'a kitautolu lotuu 'oku 'ikai value-free. pea 'i he sio 'a tama faka'ikai 'otuaa we are full of value-judgement...makatu'unga 'i he'etau tui fakalotu. Neongo 'oku ai 'enau konga'i mo'oni..ka 'oku totonu ke tau tauhi e ma'uma'uluta e siasi..
2)'uhinga e taha 'o e "separate church and state" he te tau movetevete 'a e siasi ka tafoki hake e faifekau ke endorse ha system 'oku ne tui kiai lolotonga ko ia 'oku blurr he folofolaa--me'akehe 'ene voice out ene opinion,me'a kehe 'ene pehee mai tau oo 'o fili he 'ia 'Akilisi pe Seni.!!!
3)'e lava ke va'inga'aki 'ehe kau politiki 'a e ngaahi siasi..pea 'ikai lava ke tau a'u moe kosipeli ki he ongofaha'i fakatou'osi kapau te tau ki ha tafa'aki
4)'i he hisitolia ko e fakataha 'a e siasi moe politiki ko e pelepela fakatou'osi eg. ko e ngaahi falelotu lahi i siamane ne tu'u fakataha e kolosi 'o Sisu moe faka'ilnga Nasi--fakailifia e!!Ko e ola ia merge "state and church"
'Oku ou 'iai 'eku bias faka-politikale 'oku ou tui tene uesia 'eku ngauefakalotu(fakaevangelio) pea koe 'uhinga ia 'oku "loi" ai he matangi tongaa 'o ngaue'aki e hingoa kehe he koe taimi teu foki ki tongaa teu feinga ke a'u mo Kalaisi ki he fakatoloua e ongo faha'ii--pea kapau teu fiepolitiki 'e tlamai he'emau ngaue keu mavahe aa ki tu'a..
Kou tui pee 'oku mahino he taimi ni 'eku pehee "separate church and state"
Fakaoli ko Amelika ni pee 'oku fele 'a e involve pea ivi malohi e evangelical he politiki --but still there is a "separation of state and church"
seni taniela
--- On Tue, 29/4/08, tv <ti.va...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My point? mahalo 'oku vote e kakai the kau Temo in to
> parliament for a
> reason. Pea 'ikai ngata ai ka e hangee 'oku
> 'ilo 'e he kau fakafofonga
> 'enau politiki more than us! Ka e toki fai ha hoko atu
> ....
===========================================
Mo'oni pee!!
Pea kou tui ko e ola e filii--it does not say anything about whether it is the best idea to change or not...all it says only 48% of those registered "cared enough" to cast their votes--kou tui koe lipooti meia Vuki 'oku asi he matangi tonga 'oku 'ikai ko ha fakamahamahalo
'Uhinga 'eku fakahoa mo Amelika koe'uhi 'oku fakapotopoto he kapau te tau sio 'oku kei pikoua e temo he ngaahi fonua langalangahake tokolahi 'oku totonu ke tau 'eke pe ko e haa hono 'uhingaa
Manatu'i ko Hitilaa na'e fou he vote, ko Mugabe, Sadam, mo e taki 'o Iulani..etc..all democratic...pea koe 'uhinga malohi 'oku ou manavahee ai ko e 16/11. Ko e 'aho te tau tu'u ai he 'ao 'oe 'Otua --koe kau laka, kau tutu...there is no excuse 'o pehee atu 'Eiki..ko 'eku fai e kovi ni koe fakatupu 'ehe pule'angaa...all individuals are responsible for their own actions
Koe 'uhinga hono ua 'eku ilifia he temoo --Ko e fakalongolongo 'a e kau taki temo he 16/11..."The Silence of the Leaders" will be a very interesting topic to study in the years to come...they were there and they kept quiet.
kapau na'e kiitaki e temo 'o melino perhaps I/ we will support the more--but they betrayed our trust...and if any movement fail ...leaders have to be fired.
But again when we talked about Chinese corruption--we have to violate some democratic principles --'e faingofua e clean up e kau siaina kapau te tau socialist pee fakatu'i...pea ko 'eku 'uhinga ia ki he feinga temo 'ikai fie faie e founga fakatemo...
kaikehe malo e fao
'ofa atu
seni
etuate.m...@tti.to
Ne fai e fu'u lotu lahi 'a TOnga ni 'i he teuteu fili pea takai mo e kau
lotu hufia (intercessors) moe kau evangelioo taimi kakato 'a e SUTT 'o
lotu 'i he ngaahi elia kotoa pe 'i he ngaahi kolo 'e fai ai e fili. Ko e
kaveinga lahi 'o e ngaahi lotu ko 'eni ke fili ha kakai fe'unga mo taau 'i
loto mo tu'a ke nau fkfofonga'i 'a e kakai 'o e fonua ki he falealea.
Ki'i tokoni mai pe koe tali nai 'eni ki he lotu ne fai pe 'ikai?
malo mo e 'ofa atu kihomo ongo famili.
etuate
Ikani Tolu
'Ofaange 'oku 'ikai ko 'ema kau evangelio 'ena mo Fili
na'e o 'o fi e lotu na e. Ka koe tali ia 'oe lotu ne
fai. Ko e 'Otua 'oku tau lotu kiai ko e 'Otua tali
lotu mo e 'Otua 'ofa.
Kuo taimi ke fakakaukau homou pule'anga ki he ola 'oe
fili ko'eni.
Lufe
--- etuate.m...@tti.to wrote:
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
seni taniela
Malo 'Etu
'Io ko e tali 'ena 'etau lotu...through His Over-arching Sovereignty--yes....I guess it is in His "permissive will" but not in His "decisive will"!!!--if there is such a thing.
Sorry atu 'Etu..I have exams next week and have stuff due this week please pray for me--he 'oku 'ita mai e hoaa he tasilisili kae 'ikai fai e me'a 'oku 'uhinga ai e 'i henii. I promised her that I would not tasilisili except for this last one...and as a submissive husband!!!pea moe "sevaniti talangofua"to my better half!! I have to pause for a while
'ofa lahi atu kia Lu'isa mo kau leka pea ki hotau fangatokoua he tepile ni
seni
--- On Tue, 29/4/08, etuate.m...@tti.to <etuate.m...@tti.to> wrote:
> From: etuate.m...@tti.to <etuate.m...@tti.to>
> Subject: [tasilisili] Re: Fakatokanga ki he teu feinga liliu temo 'i Tonga--ola 'oe fakaanga ta'efakapoto
Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
www.yahoo7.com.au/y7mail
Sepesi
> 3)'e lava ke va'inga'aki 'ehe kau politiki 'a e ngaahi siasi..pea
> 'ikai lava ke tau a'u moe kosipeli ki he ongofaha'i fakatou'osi kapau
> te tau ki ha tafa'aki
>
-------------------------------------------------
Malie ia Seni, ko e lelei taha ka toki kole mai pe 'oku 'iai ha lau 'a e
Siasi ki he Liliu, pea 'oku totonu ke lave he fakakaukau ko e
"Ongo'olive"(koia koaa) 'oku ua" Pule'anga mo e Siasi" malohinga 'o e
Fonua. 'Oku 'ikai ko e 'alu 'a e Siasi ki he Pule'anga ka 'oku 'iai 'a e
lau 'a e Siasi ki he ngaahi requirements oku ma'ae Siasi fekau'aki mo e
Pule'anga.
Fakatata'aki hono feinga'i ke faka'ataa e Sapate he kumi lolo etc.
malie fakamaama.
Sepesi.
Sepesi
> Etuate
> 'Ofaange 'oku 'ikai ko 'ema kau evangelio 'ena mo Fili
> na'e o 'o fi e lotu na e. Ka koe tali ia 'oe lotu ne
> fai. Ko e 'Otua 'oku tau lotu kiai ko e 'Otua tali
> lotu mo e 'Otua 'ofa.
> Kuo taimi ke fakakaukau homou pule'anga ki he ola 'oe
> fili ko'eni.
>
Faifekau, 'oku pau pe ko ho'omo evangelioo he 'oku lahilahi foki e
seniti he kau kemipeini he ngaahi fai'angafili ;oua to e fai atu ia kia
Fili .
Sepesi.
tv
Ko e konisitutuone 'a 'Amelika (as Seni always seems to allude to), ko
e "separation" 'oku 'ikai ko ia 'oku fai e lau ki ai. Pe ko hono 'ai
'e taha - ko e separation 'oku one way only. Tu'utu'uni 'e he
Konisitutone 'a USA he 'ikai interefer e US Congress in the
establishment or exercise of religion. BUT church 'oku 'ikai 'i ai
hano limiti 'i ha'ane fie involve 'i he cvili politics as a free
exercise of its religion! 'A ia 'oku 'ikai ko e fa'ahinga "separation"
'oku mavaeua. And it isn't a separation!
'Oku te'eki keu 'ma'u pau' ki he Konisitutuone 'a Tonga (I will try
looking into it kimu'a he fili hoko), and how the King's power sit or
rather, above 'i he mafai 'o e Konisitutuone Tonga. Ka ko e me'a ne
hoko he ngaahi ta'u kimui ni mai (re; fakatau paasipoti Tonga), pea mo
e me'a ne fai kihe Konisitutuone Tonga put huge concern on King G5
absolute power.
Foki ki he separation;
'Oku mahino kiate au Seni 'a ho'o fakama'ala'ala e "separation" 'i he
level ia 'e taha. Ka 'oku ou fakasiosio hake ki he kamata ke toe
reconstruct mo e faka'ai'ai 'a e mahu'inga 'o e faith having a bearing
on one's WHOLE life (vakai kihe Dominonists/Reconstructionsists).
Kiate au 'oku tatafe kotoa mai mei he anga 'etau view e Tohitapu, and
hugely about our position on eschatology.
Ko 'eku fakakaukau atu ki he politics & church are human beings - you
& I. Pea ko e haa ho'o to'oto'o ki he politics 'oku shape by your
faith. The church too is yourself & myself (not the fale-lotu or the
Palesiteni only. it's you & I again).
Kiate au, on one hand ko e messege 'a Sisu was as mush as against the
government (Romans power) of the day, the Jewish establishment, it was
also for the individuals. Ko e separation issue 'oku 'ikai clear cut
as you probably feel, ka 'oku 'i ai e ngaahi overlap 'oku tonu ke kei
talanoa'i. Ka 'e sai ke fai ha fakasiosio hake kia Veni Faupula &
Lotopoha he 'oku 'asi mai 'ena ngaahi popolave 'oku fekau'aki mo e
Tohitapu.
He kapau 'e vakai ki US (mo 'enau 'oholo he ngaahi me'a 'oku hoko 'i
mamani - Iraq as an eg), 'ikai ko e tama Faifekau ha'u mei he
tradition 'o e Dispensationalism ne ne sow the seed of why it would be
good to protect Israel & go into Iraq? ko e e fakamahlo. And that has
been the over-riding eschatology of American christians in the past
100 years! Zionism too. And now, the problem seems to be an over
reaction by christian and has gone to the other extreme. trying to
take over politics? or total walk away form it?
The "separation" isn't really a separation per say. Kaikehe, loloa ...
ka e toki vakai mai
tv
'E fu'u 'aonga fau kapau 'oku 'i ai ha taha mei Sia'atoutai (kole atu
Rev Ma'angana), 'oku 'i ai ha'ane pepa/fakatotolo ki he mo'ui (ka e
tautefito) ki he tui 'a Tupou I. Ko 'Amelika (lahi) 'oku 'ata lelei
hono lau e ngaahi fakamatala mo e mo'ui 'a Jefferson (3rd Pres.?) he
ko ia 'oku tala ne ne fatu 'a 'Amelika. KO Jefferson na'e unitarian
'ene teolosia, pe 'ai 'e taha, ne tele he liberals. 'Oku 'i ai 'a e
"Jefferson Bible", ko 'ene hanga 'o 'omai e ngaahi me'a mahu'inga ne
fakahinohino 'e Sisu. 'I ai mo e ngaahi me'a kehe ne ne fai. Hono
fakakatoa; ne ne pehee kuo hanga 'e he Siasi 'o maumau'i mo
fakapalakuu'i its founder - Jesus.
Ko e mention 'o Tupou I he 'e faingofua ange ai hano fakasio e founga
Pule'anga 'e 'aonga ki Tonga. (trying to keep ki he kaveinga 'o e
tepile ni). Was the Tongan Constitution hugely influence by the shape
of his faith? Pe ko e shape 'o e faith 'a Mr Baker? Or the Bristish
Law? Ko 'eku fakamahalo ne monoi 'e Mr Baker 'a e mafai 'o e Tu'i ke
'i 'olunga he Konisitutone. That to my own view 'oku tonu ke vakai'i
'o fakalelei'i. Ka e 'oleva ke fai ha lau ki ai 'a e kau hisitolia
'oku nau ki'i loloto ange.
Mo'oni lahi Seni 'a e anga e fute 'a e kau Temo he 'aho ni. 'Oku ou
tala'a fau he'enau ngaahi longoa'a 'oku fai. Ka 'oku tatau pee mo e
Pule'anga/Tu'i, pea mo e mafai 'oku 'i hono nima. Ko 'eku teketeke atu
ke tau fakakaukau mu'a e Siasi. Ke teui'i ha kau taki (politiki) ki
hono fa'u e fonua mo hono fakalele. Fefe ke to'o e language 'oe
separation. Ka tau ngaue'aki e langauage 'o e responsibilities. Ko e
haa e responsibilities 'o e church ki he politiki, pea mo e
responsibilities e politiki ki he Siasi. Ko e fo'i responsibilities
mahu'inga e Siasi ko hono teu'i e kau politiki. But we neglect our
schools. Fatongia 'o Kolisi ko Tupou he fuoloa! We pour resources ki
he langa fale-lotu, langa nofo'anga, fale-kolisitutuku, save up ki he
ngaahi pola Konifelenisi ... etc. These are the things 'oku inherit 'e
he generations hoko. Ko e faka'amu ke inherit 'ehe generation hoko a
"faith" - a good strong one too. Ka ko e tupu hake ai pee 'o sio he
mo'ui taa noo!
Fefee ke 'ai 'etau ngahi fu'u pa'anga 'oku tanaki 'o fakalelei'i 'aki
'etau ako teolosia. Langa 'etau ngaahi ako - I mean the church school
academic credentials! 'Ikai 'uhinga eni Faifekau Nanga ke toe hiki
ho'o vahe ... neongo teu poupou au ki ai. 'Ofa mai 'o 'oua 'e tukuange
ki he Pule'anga ke nau teu'i 'etau fanau. Feinga'i e teolosia Tonga ke
'unuaki he 'oku 'ikai lelei e me'a 'oku inherit 'e he to'u hoko. Our
understanding/reinterpretation of the Bible needs updating.
Seni, kole atu ke fefee ke 'oua e 'osi ho'o ako pea ke kemipeini
falealea, ka ke kemipeini Faifekau SUTT. ('oku kei kemipeini ke te
Faifekau SUTT?). Kapau 'e sai pe olioli 'etau teolosia mahalo 'e 'asi
hake ai ha kau Jefferson, ha Lincoln, ha kau tama politiki te nau taki
kitautolu. 'A ee 'oku ke faka'amu ki ai Seni.
Sione M. Veituna
Masi'i malo mu'a 'etau lava pea malo 'etau toe a'u mai ki he 'aho ni. Kataki ko e haa ko aa e me'a 'oku ke tokanga mai ki ai. 'Oku fu'u fa'a loloa ma'u pe ho'o posting mo Seni pea faingata'a kiate kimautolu he taimi e ni'ihi ke fakama'opo'opo he 'oku fu'u matamofele, kae tuku pe mu'a ke fai atu ha 'aliaki
1. Jefferson: My analysis he was not a Christian; he was a Deist. Tokoni vete mai 'e Seni mo Faupula ki he tslsl e uhinga 'o e tokotaha oku hoko ko ha Deist, he ko kinaua e ongo filosefa he tepile.
2. Tupou I: My reading of Tongan History; he was a Christian. To e kole pe kia Seni mo Vaikona ke na tokoni mai pe ko fe fe hoko ha taha ko e Christian. he ko kimoua oku taukei heni
3. King is above Constitution: My comment; Hala ha'a ku ilo ki he Konisitutone pe oku pehee pe 'ikai. Ko e fakamahalo pe eni he 'eku fa'a fanongo he ngalu'ea he laulea, oku ikai ha taha 'e above the Constitution, kae hange ko e lau ko si'ete fanongo talanoa pe eni, toki fakatonutonu mai 'e taha kuo ne lau tonu e Konisitutone
4. Missionaries influences on Tongan Constitution: Mo'oni 'aupito! How much influence? I can't measure it now. Ko e me'a 'e taha ke tokanga'i pe ko e ha 'a e fehu'i? Ko e influence towards a more Christian perspectives or towards more British perspectives. 'Oku fakatouma'u he sino 'o Baker 'a e ongo me'a ko ena 'i 'olunga, ko e fifili pe ko e fakaKalisitiane pe fakaPolata'ane.
5. Church Responsibility: Te u ha kau politiki? 'Oku lahi e ngaahi ngafa fatongia 'o e Siasi 'oku mandate 'e he Folofola. 'Oku lava atu e ni'ihi pea li'aki atu e ni'ihi. Ka 'oka tau pehee ko e fatongia mahu'inga 'eni: Ko e ha e founga 'e fai'aki? Fokotu'u mai ha founga te tau teu'i 'aki ha kau politiki.
6. Ko e ha leva 'a e kaunga 'a e ngaahi pola, ngaahi fu'u langa, etc ki he talanoa? Ko e 'ikai lava 'o teu'i e politiki, pea ko e 'ikai lelei e ako teolosia, pe koe 'ikai lelei e credentials 'o etau ngaahi ako?
7. Ngaue'aki e pa'anga 'oku tanaki ke fakalelei'i 'aki e ako teolosia mo e langa e credential 'o 'etau ngaahi ako. Faka'ofo'ofa 'aupito e lukuluku kuo fai mai. Mou tokoni mai heni "How are we going about implementing this to the wider church? he kuo pau foki ke fokotu'u mai e ngaahi fakakaukau lelei ni mei he siasi fakakolo ki he fakavahe, ki he kuata pea ki he vahefonua pea ki he konifelenisi 'oka pau ko ha me'a 'oku fekau'aki mo e siasi. Pea kakapu ko ha me'a pe ia e lava pe 'e he kau puleako ia 'o liliu pea 'e fefe 'etau 'ave eni he channel ko ia.
8. Kataki pe kau tsltsl, koe'uhi 'oku ha ngali mahu'inga e felafoaki ko eni 'oku fai atu ai e kole ke mou luku mai ange pe 'e lava 'o put into action 'etau ngaahi feme'aki pe ko e 'ai pe 'eni ia ke ma'u ai ha tau oli pea felingiaki fakakaukau pea ngata ai.
9. Tevita, ngali 'oku fu'u hoha'a ki he'eku vahenga eee, ka ai ha'o 'ofa mai, tuku hifo kia Lufe ki Suva he 'e 'aonga kihe feinga ako 'oku fai. Sai pe 'a Seni ia he kuo citizen ia, lava pe ia o no mei Stafford Loan, kae toki taataa. 'Oua te ke toe ue'i au na'a toe kele hoku loto lelei ni, tuku ai pe he he'eku hanganoa... LOL.
Central Coast, NSW
Taniela Sila
lave 'o hange koe 'ulu'i tohi koe fakaanga ta'e
fakapotopoto......kataki ange 'o 'omai ha ngaahi fakaanga fakapotopoto
ketau sio kiai. He ko mautolu heni 'oku 'i Tonga ni 'e tokoni ho'omou
lave mai koe'uhi na'a 'aonga kihe 'emau talanoa....
Pea koe taha e fifili he ngaahi talanoa kuo fai pea hange koe ngaahi
talanga 'oku fai holo 'i Tonga ni pea 'oku pehe ni 'oe talanoa
1. Kapau 'e tuku e temo ko e ha e fatunga pule'anga te tau hoko kiai?
2. 'E taliui nai e kau minisita kia hai?
3.'Oku taliui e Tu'i kiha taha pe koe 'Otua pe?
4. 'E tuku pe kenau fa'iteliha ha me'a kenau fai? eg..Fineasi Funaki
5. Fefe 'ae tau'ataina 'ae kakai lea mo e fetu'utaki hange koia he
letio Tonga kuo tau holo ai kimui mei tau'ataina 'ae media?
6. 'Oku hanga nai 'e he sisitamu 'o pule'i e kakai pe koe kakai 'oku
nau pule'i e sisitamu?
7. Ko kelekele ko 'eni koe kelekele 'o hai?
8.Ko mamafa 'ae koloa he taimi ni koe Tupu meia Hai?
9.Ko e Asset na'e totongi 'ehe pule'anga hange koe 'api 'i NZ 'oku
owner 'e hai?
10. Fefe 'ae Tu'i kuo 'osi moe Tu'i he taimi ni hono fakahoa?
11. Kapau ne mou 'i heni he uike 'e taha pea fai ai e fil kemou
fanongo he FM 'e 'i Tonga ni......te tau pehe koe fakaanga
fakapotopoto nai ia...
12.Kapau ne 'ikai ha 'Akilisi he taimi ni koe ha e me'a 'e iku kiai
'ae 'Pule'anga he ngaahi ta'u mai kumu'a 'o a'umai kihe taimi ni...
13.Ko e me'a ne hoko 'i Nuku'alofa he 16/11 'oku hange pe ia koe
Sunami.Na'e 'ikai ke 'ohovale pe kuo tupukoso ka koe ngaahi kasa kona
nenau fetautaulaki 'i loto fonua pea toki mapuna hake leva ia....ko
hai nene faka tupu?
14. 'Oku tau pehee ko e fili ko 'eni,kuo loto nai e kakai ke fai ha
liliu?
15. Fefe 'ae Hisitolia kuo 'iai nai ha fonua kuo liliu melino 'i
mamani ke fktau'ataina e kakai pe koe lingi toto pe?
koe ngaahi me'a 'ena 'oku talanoa'i lahi 'i Tonga ni he taimi ni kae
toki faka'osi 'atu
Malo
Taniela
On May 1, 7:27 am, "Sione M. Veituna" <sveit...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Vaikona,
>
> Masi'i malo mu'a 'etau lava pea malo 'etau toe a'u mai ki he 'aho ni. Kataki ko e haa ko aa e me'a 'oku ke tokanga mai ki ai. 'Oku fu'u fa'a loloa ma'u pe ho'o posting mo Seni pea faingata'a kiate kimautolu he taimi e ni'ihi ke fakama'opo'opo he 'oku fu'u matamofele, kae tuku pe mu'a ke fai atu ha 'aliaki
>
> 1. Jefferson: My analysis he was not a Christian; he was a Deist. Tokoni vete mai 'e Seni mo Faupula ki he tslsl e uhinga 'o e tokotaha oku hoko ko ha Deist, he ko kinaua e ongo filosefa he tepile.
>
> 2. Tupou I: My reading of Tongan History; he was a Christian. To e kole pe kia Seni mo Vaikona ke na tokoni mai pe ko fe fe hoko ha taha ko e Christian. he ko kimoua oku taukei heni
>
> 3. King is above Constitution: My comment; Hala ha'a ku ilo ki he Konisitutone pe oku pehee pe 'ikai. Ko e fakamahalo pe eni he 'eku fa'a fanongo he ngalu'ea he laulea, oku ikai ha taha 'e above the Constitution, kae hange ko e lau ko si'ete fanongo talanoa pe eni, toki fakatonutonu mai 'e taha kuo ne lau tonu e Konisitutone
>
> 4. Missionaries influences on Tongan Constitution: Mo'oni 'aupito! How much influence? I can't measure it now. Ko e me'a 'e taha ke tokanga'i pe ko e ha 'a e fehu'i? Ko e influence towards a more Christian perspectives or towards more British perspectives. 'Oku fakatouma'u he sino 'o Baker 'a e ongo me'a ko ena 'i 'olunga, ko e fifili pe ko e fakaKalisitiane pe fakaPolata'ane.
>
> 5. Church Responsibility: Te u ha kau politiki? 'Oku lahi e ngaahi ngafa fatongia 'o e Siasi 'oku mandate 'e he Folofola. 'Oku lava atu e ni'ihi pea li'aki atu e ni'ihi. Ka 'oka tau pehee ko e fatongia mahu'inga 'eni: Ko e ha e founga 'e fai'aki? Fokotu'u mai ha founga te tau teu'i 'aki ha kau politiki.
>
> 6. Ko e ha leva 'a e kaunga 'a e ngaahi pola, ngaahi fu'u langa, etc ki he talanoa? Ko e 'ikai lava 'o teu'i e politiki, pea ko e 'ikai lelei e ako teolosia, pe koe 'ikai lelei e credentials 'o etau ngaahi ako?
>
> 7. Ngaue'aki e pa'anga 'oku tanaki ke fakalelei'i 'aki e ako teolosia mo e langa e credential 'o 'etau ngaahi ako. Faka'ofo'ofa 'aupito e lukuluku kuo fai mai. Mou tokoni mai heni "How are we going about implementing this to the wider church? he kuo pau foki ke fokotu'u mai e ngaahi fakakaukau lelei ni mei he siasi fakakolo ki he fakavahe, ki he kuata pea ki he vahefonua pea ki he konifelenisi 'oka pau ko ha me'a 'oku fekau'aki mo e siasi. Pea kakapu ko ha me'a pe ia e lava pe 'e he kau puleako ia 'o liliu pea 'e fefe 'etau 'ave eni he channel ko ia.
>
> 8. Kataki pe kau tsltsl, koe'uhi 'oku ha ngali mahu'inga e felafoaki ko eni 'oku fai atu ai e kole ke mou luku mai ange pe 'e lava 'o put into action 'etau ngaahi feme'aki pe ko e 'ai pe 'eni ia ke ma'u ai ha tau oli pea felingiaki fakakaukau pea ngata ai.
>
> 9. Tevita, ngali 'oku fu'u hoha'a ki he'eku vahenga eee, ka ai ha'o 'ofa mai, tuku hifo kia Lufe ki Suva he 'e 'aonga kihe feinga ako 'oku fai. Sai pe 'a Seni ia he kuo citizen ia, lava pe ia o no mei Stafford Loan, kae toki taataa. 'Oua te ke toe ue'i au na'a toe kele hoku loto lelei ni, tuku ai pe he he'eku hanganoa... LOL.
>
> 10. Kuo ngali loloa, “hange ko e lau ‘a e motu’a ueeee, kuo u heva atu au ia eee.. Fakamonuu atu pe he ngaahi feme’a’aki
>
> mo e ‘ofa,
> Ma'ananga
> Central Coast, NSW
>
tv
Kataki ko e haa ko aa e me'a 'oku ke tokanga mai ki ai. 'Oku fu'u fa'a
loloa ma'u pe ho'o posting mo Seni pea faingata'a kiate kimautolu he
taimi e ni'ihi ke fakama'opo'opo he 'oku fu'u matamofele, kae tuku pe
mu'a ke fai atu ha 'aliaki
Faifekau, malo e tau mo ena. palomesi atu 'e nounou e posting, he'ikai
palomesi 'e mahino.
Politiki mo hono fakalele 'a Tonga 'e he kakai 'oku nau 'alu ki he
lotu - 'oku nau ki he ngaahi Siasi. Ko e me'a oku nau fai 'i honau
ngaahi 'ofisi (lakanga) 'oku fakamaama 'e he ha? Ko e felave'i leva 'i
he anga 'eku motu'i vakai, 'oku fai mei he moral guidence. ko e
fatongia ia 'o e Siasi? Tukukehe!
Felave'i 'a e ngaahi me'a 'oku fai 'ehe Siasi mo e politiki?
Hangee kiate au ne fokotu'u 'a Toloa ke teu'i e kakai ke nau ngaue
ma'a Tonga. Hoko atu ki ai mo 'Atele. Ko e fakamahalo ma'u ki ono'aho.
Pea hangee kiate au ko e kakai ne nau fuofua heka he ngaahi lakanga
politiki lalahi 'a Tonga ko e kakai ne teu'i mei he ongo kolisi. Fefe
'aho ni? Fa'iteliha pee kakai he me'a oku nau fie tanaki silini ki ai?
Again, I suspect that people aren't biblically encouraged or taugth
how to give. we make abstract reference (quote verses) to justify the
way we do things. pea ko e ola? vakai ki he ngaahi palopalema fk-
sosiale 'ene lahi pehee he ki'i fonua si'isi'i fau!
Ko 'eku fakakaukau pee - when Jesus said he is the way - ko 'ene
'uhinga mahalo, we (the church) need to encourage people to have Jesus
on the path they are walking. 'oku kehe pe ia mei he faka'ai'ai 'e
kakai ke nau 'alu ki 'api Siasi mo fale-lotu. when he said he is the
truth, he probably mean to encourage people to seek out what he says
about the complicated issues in life. I have a feeling Jesus has an
answer for any queries. Pea 'oku ou tui 'oku tonu ke ue'i 'etau 'ilo
ki he lau 'a Sisu mei he ngaahi fo'i malanga 'oku kei 'oange ki he
kakai incase Jesus' truth isn't salty anymore. and when he said he is
the life, he may be asking people to look at what he went through. if
you want to follow expect that kind of life! Ko e fua kolosi, ka 'oku
'ikai ko e heka pajero. Kehe pe ia mei he kumi mo'ui kia Sisu. Ko e
'eku fakamahalo, if we want Jesus's life we need to look at how he
lived.
Koe ha e kalisitiane?
Vakai ki he lau 'a e Tohi Ngaue pea u fakakaukau ki he kamata 'a e
kautama ko ia. Kau mua'ki! Ne 'ikai ha fakahinohino, fakasitepu, pe
ngaahi lao ke te foua ka e fk-official ko e tama kalisitiane kita. Ne
'ikai ha sivi pe ko ha palani! Ne malanga'i 'a e mo'ui, ngaue, moe
me'a ne lea'aki 'e he tama ko Sisu pea generate ai a particular
experience 'i he ngaue 'a e Laumalie Ma'oni'oni. Kalisitiane 'a Tupou
I? When we read Acts, we see a group who come together ko 'enau
fanongo 'i hono malanga'i 'o Sisu pea langa 'e he Laumalie Ma'oni'oni
'a e fa'ahinga mahino/ongo 'iate kinautolu. Kalisitiane 'a Tupou I?
Kalisitiane 'a Jefferson? Ko e haa e criteria kate ui ha taha ko e
kalisitiane?
sfaupula
seni taniela
Sivi 'e fai he uike kaha'u, 'osi ia ka tau toki talanoa ki he ngaahi ten million dollar questions ko 'enaa...ka e ki'i lave fakakonga atu pee.
Tau ki'i fastforward ange pea tau toki 'alu fakaholomui mai.
Tau pehee tau push e liliu pea fai e lingi toto...Is it worth it?? Ko e justify e revolution pe lingitoto when evil reaches to a certain degree where "just war"/"just revolution" can be justified.
Te'eki ofiofia e hia a Tupouto'a ki he tu'unga ke justify ai e lingitoto. If I was the king he 16/11...I would allow the "guns" to clean up some "tough temo"lotolahi. Do a cost analysis now...who is the greater evil...???or they are the same...if they are the same...becareful of trying to change in such time...cos a demagogue if not ffrom the temo ...perhaps from the sotia, or from the pule'anga will rise
Na'e feefee tau'ataaina 'a Initia...they did non-violent...neongo e palaku 'a Pilitania. Kapau na'a nau feinga fakamalohi ko e fufulu ia nautolu 'e Pilitania. Ko Tonga he taimi ni...'okun fele 'a e kau loyalist kau ai au...mo 'emau kau Sotia..!!! ka feinga e kau liliu kihe violent...it is our turn to clean them up with the guns.
I am writing a paper to be due tomorrow on "the mirage of searching for equality" & equal distribution of wealth--very interesting...he koe kumi equality e ngaahi fonua afilika, amelika tonga, he ta'u e 30 kuo 'osi 'oku kei fai pee kumi equality he taimi ni...why???mo'unofoa he kumi equality ka melemo pee ekonomika neongo e fele 'enau natural resources...he koe equality--it's hard to define, hard to accomplish....like dreaming about immortality...koe temo kae kei kiti 'ikai ilo pee 'e feefee'i e fu'u temoo..temenioo pee!!
'ilo'i e kau winner he kumi equality--ko e kau taki kumi equality pee--eg.kau temo ki falealea...mole taimi e kakai he focus in something that will never developed them as people...some brutal realities we have to face and it will take time to remove them
'eke atu ka Akilisi...ko e ha fa'ahinga equality oku ne malanga'i--eg.vahe tatau...??
another point...let's rewind to the very beginning of time...to the state of nature...where there was no govt. who put the king there??...all of us were animals --survivors in the battle of/for the fittest...now, who judges who??..ka fai ha feinga fakamalohi e liliu--then the king and his nobles and his loyalists can respond immorally--and can fight now as they did in the past...we will be more chaotic...?? inequality existed in the past as of now..
i think we have to assess democracy and change in the light of a bigger picture...in the light of what is happening in other developing countries eg. Fiji...discuss e ngaahi issue 'oku struggle ai e ngaahi fonua temoo...pea fakasio ai pee ko fee ngaahi me'a 'e 'aongaa --kae 'oua 'e hoko e mamahi ke puli ai 'etau angahalaa...moe ngaahi maama pee hotau lotolotongaa..
we need some changes--perhaps some compromise too...but we don't need the extremists to rape the change!!
--- On Wed, 30/4/08, Taniela Sila <tanie...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Get the name you always wanted with the new y7mail email address.
www.yahoo7.com.au/y7mail
Sione M. Veituna
talamonu atu ki he sivi. ko e kole. ka 'osi mu'a e sivi pea ke polishing ange mu'a ho'o tohi ko eni 'o send ki he local newspaper i Tonga ke lau ai e kakai e fonua pe 'ai ha'a nau fakaanga ki ai he oku ou tui oku ai ho'o point malohi aupito heni that some people outside the tsltsl may be interested ke reason mo koe he ngaahi point mahu'inga kuo fokotu'u mai
pea ke tokanga ki he ako he oku mooni e hoa, oku lahi ange ho'o tsltsl he fai assignment. ha ha ha
ofa atu
Ma'ananga
NSW
seni taniela <seni...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
Nela
Sivi 'e fai he uike kaha'u, 'osi ia ka tau toki talanoa ki he ngaahi ten million dollar questions ko 'enaa...ka e ki'i lave fakakonga atu pee.
Tau ki'i fastforward ange pea tau toki 'alu fakaholomui mai.
Tau pehee tau push e liliu pea fai e lingi toto...Is it worth it?? Ko e justify e revolution pe lingitoto when evil reaches to a certain degree where "just war"/"just revolution" can be justified.
Te'eki ofiofia e hia a Tupouto'a ki he tu'unga ke justify ai e lingitoto. If I was the king he 16/11...I would allow the "guns" to clean up some "tough temo"lotolahi. Do a cost analysis now...who is the greater evil...???or they are the same...if they are the same...becareful of trying to change in such time...cos a demagogue if not ffrom the temo ...perhaps from the sotia, or from the pule'anga will rise
Na'e feefee tau'ataaina 'a Initia...they did non-violent...neongo e palaku 'a Pilitania. Kapau na'a nau feinga fakamalohi ko e fufulu ia nautolu 'e Pilitania. Ko Tonga he taimi ni...'okun fele 'a e kau loyalist kau ai au...mo 'emau kau Sotia..!!! ka feinga e kau liliu kihe violent...it is our turn to clean them up with the guns.
I am writing a paper to be due tomorrow on "the mirage of searching for equality" & equal distribution of wealth--very interesting...he koe kumi equality e ngaahi fonua afilika, amelika tonga, he ta'u e 30 kuo 'osi 'oku kei fai pee kumi equality he taimi ni...why???mo'unofoa he kumi equality ka melemo pee ekonomika neongo e fele 'enau natural resources...he koe equality--it's hard to define, hard to accomplish....like dreaming about immortality...koe temo kae kei kiti 'ikai ilo pee 'e feefee'i e fu'u temoo..temenioo pee!!
'ilo'i e kau winner he kumi equality--ko e kau taki kumi equality pee--eg.kau temo ki falealea...mole taimi e kakai he focus in something that will never developed them as people...some brutal realities we have to face and it will take time to remove them
'eke atu ka Akilisi...ko e ha fa'ahinga equality oku ne malanga'i--eg.vahe tatau...??
another point...let's rewind to the very beginning of time...to the state of nature...where there was no govt. who put the king there??...all of us were animals --survivors in the battle of/for the fittest...now, who judges who??..ka fai ha feinga fakamalohi e liliu--then the king and his nobles and his loyalists can respond immorally--and can fight now as they did in the past...we will be more chaotic...?? inequality existed in the past as of now..
i think we have to assess democracy and change in the light of a bigger picture...in the light of what is happening in other developing countries eg. Fiji...discuss e ngaahi issue 'oku struggle ai e ngaahi fonua temoo...pea fakasio ai pee ko fee ngaahi me'a 'e 'aongaa --kae 'oua 'e hoko e mamahi ke puli ai 'etau angahalaa...moe ngaahi maama pee hotau lotolotongaa..
we need some changes--perhaps some compromise too...but we don't need the extremists to rape the change!!
--- On Wed, 30/4/08, Taniela Sila wrote:
Sione M. Veituna
ko eni oku kei lele pe, neu pehee te mau osi he 2pm he aho ni, ka ko e 5pm eni oku kei fai pe wrap up, hange oku fai ke osi e fakataha ia oku toki emerge hake ngaahi crucial issues ia pea ko eni oku fkosiosi pe, e toki lele mai 'a Sana he 8.30pm pea mau toki foki atu ki Senee. palu ko e he taimi ni ke u a'u atu pe kuo mou ki'i konaa... LOL
toki sio
Ma'ananga
sfaupula <sk...@bigpond.com> wrote:
malo faifekau e fai fatongia mei hena pea kapau kuo lava e fatongia pea ke kataki 'o foki mai a ke tau faikava, na'a kuo fuoloa e lava e fktaha ia ka ke kole koe ke ke nofo atu pe ai 'o toki foki mai pe 'o puna ki tonga.toki sio...
tv
Mahalo ko ia Ma'ananga - a self-confessed deitist. ka ko e hao hake 'a
e ethics 'a Sisu ki he founding documents of the country 'oku
fakalanga fakakakukau. How, why ... etc? Koe lau leva - Jefferson
believed in a non-violent God and have a concerned for the
marginalised. Social order and human liberty was why he authored the
Constitution, Declaration & First Amendment the way he did - pea 'oku
ou pehee ai 'oku 'ata ai e ethics 'a Sisu. pea 'oku pehee ne feinga 'a
Jefferson that christianity don't "offend the sensibilities of modern
man".
Ko e fefusiaki leva; tukuaki'i 'e he secular left ko e deitist pea nau
piki ki he hand-off christianity he 'oku separate 'a e private mei he
public life. christian right leva 'oku nau tala ko e ethics 'a Sisu is
in the founding documents, so we are right pea 'oku mafulifuli atu the
founders of 'Amelika hono pehe'i e lotu. Jefferson actually interpret
the Bible in his own way and he did a lot of searching of the Bible,
particularly the things Jesus was passionate about. Why else would the
ethics of Jesus make way into these documents?
Ko 'eku pehee leva, ne 'ikai sio 'a Jefferson 'o interpret the Bible
literally. He wasn't a literalist. Ko e me'a 'oku 'asi mai Jefferson
make sure religion was used for social cohesion. He intepret the Bible
in his own enlighten way, much the same you do, I do, each and
everyone can do. 'Oku lahi fau e ngaahi naaunau 'o e lotu 'oku ta
pipiki ai ke fai ngaue ai. But like everything else, some make evil
out of it, some makes some good out of it. If we don't start to engage
in more intellectual conversation about 'tau motu'i lotu, te tatoki
hanga hake kuo mole 'a Tonga ki Siaina ....
Ko hai 'oku ta teuteu ke huu hake he taimi faingata'a pehe ni 'i
Tonga? If chane is unavoidable, ko hai 'oku tau falala ki hono
interpret the things Jesus is passionate about into out governing
laws? Pe 'e tuku ai aaa
afim...@gmail.com
Fie kaunga kau atu pe he lukuluku fakakaukau ki he faliunga 'o taimi
'oku tau monu'ia he'etau mata tonu e ngaahi me'a ko ia pea mo'oni e
kanang " ko e ako mo'oni pe ko e a'utonu ki ai."
Mo'oni Seni e ngaahi a'usia 'oku ke 'o hake ka ko e mo'oni 'eni he
anga 'eku ma'u vaivai......Ko e ngaahi maa'imoa kotoa 'a e Tu'i kamata
'iai Tupou 1, fa'u a' e Konisitutone ki he 'ene lelei pe 'a
'ana ....ko ia na'e foaki mai ai e kelekele ketau Fua 'a 'ene kavenga
mu'omu'a pea tau toki lave hano melenga, vakai ki he polopolo 'ave 'a
e lelei taha ma'anautolu ko e 'ufi pikopiko ko tautolu ia!!!!!!.
Tuku'au mai 'o a'u mai ki he Tu'i Fa ko e mo'oni ko e maa'imoa lalahi
na'a ne fakatoka mai ki Tonga ni ka ko e ngaahi maa'imoa ko ia na'e
ngako na'a ne falute kotoa pe kotoa pe, mou vakai ange ki he ngaahi
pisinisi na'a nau fakalele mo lolotonga fakalele .......kau
tama!!! .......ko e hako'i Tu'i mo'oni 'a 'enau 'ilo he me'a ngako!.
Ko e me'a ko ia 'oku ongo ko 'enau liliu kinautolu ki he "Mamani 'o e
Temokalati" kae toki fakakaukau'i 'a e Fonua!, 'ikai ko ia!?, ko e
Temokalati ko e pa'anga pea nau taki taha kinanutolu e ngaahi halanga
pa'anga lalahi pea nau talamau kuo nau finangalo ki he
liliu !!!!!.....ke fakapa'anga mei fe!!!!......ko e me'a 'oku ou
hoha'a ki ai he ko e ngaahi fakapa'anga short term 'eni ia e ngaahi
fonua muli 'e ngata ia pea ko 'ene hoko atu.......sai pe katau toki
vakai ki ai!!!!!!!!!.
Ko e me'a 'e taha ko e ki he ongo 'Olive .......ko e Pule'anga kene
fai 'a e ngaue pea ko e siasi kene fai e lotu'i e ngaue 'oku
fakahoko.....'aia ngaalingali Ma'ananga na'e 'uluaki fehalaaki 'a e
fatongia 'a e kau Taula! pea ko 'ene toki fisikitu'a mai 'eni he
ngaahi 'aho ni!!!!!!!!!!!!.
Ko e ki'i hunuhunu atu pe,
007