Andre Gide

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ke...@post.com

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May 20, 2011, 3:09:13 AM5/20/11
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'Oku ou hiki mai 'a e quote 'a Gide ki heni, hange 'oku 'i ai pe 'a e tokanga mai ki ai

malie e kamata e usuusu fakapulia, ko e "signature" fuoloa pe eni pea na'e 'osi fakamahino'i 'e veni 'a e puipuitu'a 'o Gide pea mo 'ene view ki ai ka ko eni 'oku kei 'asi holo pe, hange ko e lau ko kimoutolu pe. Mahino 'oku 'i ai e mahu'inga e lau e motu'a hono fakatokanga'i?

Ko e puipuitu'a 'o Gide, faingofua pe hono ma'u he google ko e humanist mo e moralist

loke


Loke:
"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it."---Andre Gide (1869 - 1951)
---
Malo Loke e langa mai ha'atau usuusu...ka ko Andre Gide ko enii, ko e Kalisitiane, pe ko ha atheist, pe filoosefa, postmodernist, etc...? 'Oku ne faka'ai'ai 'a e keep on seeking the (many/absolute) truth? 'Oku ne uki heni ha'atau doubt/disbelief 'i ki ha taha kuo ne ma'u 'a e moonii 'ia Sisu Kalaisi? Kataki ko e feinga pe keu mahino'i, na'a ko ha fu'u Kalisitiane pe ia ka na'e 'uhinga 'ene lauu 'a'ana ki ha fa'ahinga mo'oni 'a e kau ta'elotuu...mo e 'ofa aipee..
--
fakapulia



__________________________________ 
"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it."---Andre Gide (1869 - 1951)

ke...@post.com

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May 20, 2011, 3:41:13 AM5/20/11
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Ko e halaloto'api eni ia he faka'eke kuo fai 'e fakapulia, 'oku hala nai ke 'omi ha lau ha ta'etui 'otua pe ko ha toe taha ange 'o fulihi ke hanga mai kiate kitautolu tui 'otua? Ka fakafo'ohake'i, fefe ka 'oatu ha lau ha tui 'otua 'o fakahanga atu ki he kau ta'etui 'otua?

mo e poaki halaloto'api,
loke


__________________________________ 
"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it."---Andre Gide (1869 - 1951)

 
 
Loke:
"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it."---Andre Gide (1869 - 1951)
---
Malo Loke e langa mai ha'atau usuusu...ka ko Andre Gide ko enii, ko e Kalisitiane, pe ko ha atheist, pe filoosefa, postmodernist, etc...? 'Oku ne faka'ai'ai 'a e keep on seeking the (many/absolute) truth? 'Oku ne uki heni ha'atau doubt/disbelief 'i ki ha taha kuo ne ma'u 'a e moonii 'ia Sisu Kalaisi? Kataki ko e feinga pe keu mahino'i, na'a ko ha fu'u Kalisitiane pe ia ka na'e 'uhinga 'ene lauu 'a'ana ki ha fa'ahinga mo'oni 'a e kau ta'elotuu...mo e 'ofa aipee..
--
fakapulia


 class=messagebody>

 

--
'Oku tufa atu e email ni koe'uhi 'oku kau ho tu'asila he memipa 'i he "Tasilisili-he-ngaluope"
Ko e tu'asila ke 'ave ki ai ha'o email ki he Tasilisili ko e tasil...@googlegroups.com
Ke to'o ho tu'asila mei he memipa ki he Tasilisili, email ki he tasilisili-...@googlegroups.com
Pea ko e website 'a e Tasilisili ko e http://groups.google.com/group/tasilisili

seni taniela

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May 20, 2011, 5:45:38 PM5/20/11
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Ko e halaloto'api eni ia he faka'eke kuo fai 'e fakapulia, 'oku hala nai ke 'omi ha lau ha ta'etui 'otua pe ko ha toe taha ange 'o fulihi ke hanga mai kiate kitautolu tui 'otua? Ka fakafo'ohake'i, fefe ka 'oatu ha lau ha tui 'otua 'o fakahanga atu ki he kau ta'etui 'otua?

mo e poaki halaloto'api,
loke
__________________________________ 
"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it."---Andre Gide (1869 - 1951)==================
 
Loke malo e tau mo e faifatongia mei hena. Fai atu pee ha ki'i lafo kia Gide, he oku hangee ha taha oku pehee mai, "Muimui mai" pea tau pehee atu, "ko ho 'alu ki fee?" pea pehee mai, "Hei'ilo pee ko eku alu ki fee?"
 
Kapau teu 'i ha kalasi a Gide, teu fehu'iange ki ai, "Gide, is that statement above true or false?"
 
Mahalo pee e pehee mai, "It's true."  Pea teu pehe atu, "So, it means you are stating a statement of truth or a true statement about truth?"  Hopefully, he would say, "Yes."
 
Teu pehee atu, "Can I say you're making a truth claim about truth that truth can't be found, therefore we should doubt those who claim to have found it and beleive only those who are seeking it?  It seems to me you are making a truth claim that you have found the truth about truth that truth cannot be found, am I right Dr Gide?"
 
Ka 'io mai 'a Gide, teu pehee atu, "So, do you want me to believe that statement above is true (or false)?"
 
Kapau e pehee mai oku tonu keu tui ki he'ene fo'i quote i olunga, teu pehee atu, "Since sentences are statements about reality, and you tell us that we should believe only those who seek truth and doubt those who find it, do you want me to doubt(or believe) your claim, because you're making a truth claim about truth...."
 
Kataki Loke, ko hono mo'onii ka tau tui ki he lau Gide, he's  making a self-refutable statement.  Ko e faka'ikai'i 'oku ikai ha mo'oni pea ikai ilo ha taha ki he mo'oni, so what is he saying?  Either he is saying nothing (or nonsense), or he is simply lying about truth.
 
Ko e fa'ahinga philosophical position eni te ne tataki kitautolu ki he circular reasoning or prevent us from having a meaningful dialogue about the nature of truth about God or reality.
 
Na'a pehee e Paula, "I know Him, whom I believe." I wonder what would Gide say to Paul.  Does it mean Paul know God exhaustively? Of course not.  Pehee mai e Selemaia 29.13 "You will seek me (God) and find me when you seek me with all your heart."  Haa nai ha lau 'a Gide kia Selemaia.  Hangee ko e fakaafe ia e lotu Kalisitiane, it's an invitation to KNOW.  What about those who claim, "I know my redeemer lives?" Should we doubt that kind of testimony?
 
Ko e folofola a Sisu ko au pee ko e Hala mo e Mo'oni mo e Mo'ui etc.  is the most logical philosophical truth claim about the nature of truth.  Truth by nature is exclusive because it denies what is false.
 
I he 1993, neu fetaulaki ai mo e kaungaa kalisitiane mei Thailand.  Ko ene talaloto ne tupu Buddhist, pea ne ako he taha e univesiti tu'ukimu'a o Thailand he taha e filosefa tu'ukimu'a honau fonuaa.  Pea osi atu e lecture mo e lecture he TRUTH mo hono natula etc. pea i he aho fakaosi e lecture he TRUTH ne ne fai e fehu'i ki he palofesa, "So what is truth?" (fehu'i tatau ne fai e Pailato), pea ne ohovale he talii, tatau mo e tali a Kitee, "I don't know.  No one knows." 
 
Pehee e he talavou Thailand ko enii , he was intellectually frustrated. Toki alu e talavou ko eni ki he kulupu lotu Kalisitiane he univesiti ko e muimui he finemui Kalisitiane, pea ne 'ohovale he fuofua fanongo ki he kupu'i lea, "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER, EXCEPT BY ME."  I he'ene talaloto, he found an intellectual answer in a Person.  Na'a ne fa'ofua ai he lotu Kalisitiane, graduate mei he univesiti he International Relations he na'e fiengaue fakaamipasitoa, ka ne liliu ene taumu'a 'o ne hoko ko e tokotaha ngaue fakamisinale he Campus Crusade for Christ ke ne talanoa ki he kakai hono fonuaa 'a Kalaisi, neongo ne kei Puta pee ene fine'eikii.
 
It seems to me that Gide is so skeptical about almost everything except he is not skeptical about his extreme skepticism.
 

Sam Pakofe

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May 20, 2011, 7:53:07 PM5/20/11
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Malo Seni , Loke  e Potalanoa,
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it."---Andre Gide (1869 - 1951)==================
 ------------------------------------------------------
Koe Fakalanga talanoa malie 'ena kuo tuku mai 'e Gide, 'ikai toe kehekehe moe tukunga 'oe Fakamaau'anga kihe 'eku fakakaukau, KOha toko taha'oku kumi kihe " evidence " 'oha case , kae lava ke Fakamau'ii ,,  pea koe malie he koe ngaahi evidence 'oku ma'u kotoa pe, meihe fakailong-nima, kihe video etc, Kakoe me'a koee 'oku malie , he "Oku 'iai pe mafai ia 'oe " Defendant Lawyer" kene fAKA'IKA'II 'ae Ngaahi " Fakamo'oni kuo ihe talatalaaki.

 

Peakoe me'a tatau pe ia , oku tau lolotonga Fononga ai he Mo'ui ni ,,, Koe me'a pe oku puli mo ngavaivai ,,, "He oku matamonuka ai e totonu 'ae lao , ka kuo pule 'ae Faka'uhinga moe taukapo'ii 'ohano mimio/ue'i  e ngaahi Fakamo'oni..

 

Pea kuou tui , koe fononga 'oku tau fai ihe LOtu lelei moe " Tala-Fungani 'oe Kosipeli " oku pehee pe, he 'oku tokolahi 'ae kau Filosofia, 'oku nau " fekuki"

 

 ihe tukunga "FakaTukuFakaholo", pe

koe tukunga -Faka'uhinglea , pe

koe Tukunga-Faka'ulunga Fakafonua..

 

Pea mahalo na'a kuo hoko 'etau feinga ke Fakakainga'ii 'e tukunga 'oe tohitapu kihotau ngaahi 'atakai fakamata-kali koe me'a kene " Tatapuni " ai ha me'a lelei mei hotau mamani.

 

Ka koe me'a koee kapau teu fehu'ia, Ko kimoutolu kau Teolosia pe Filosofia pe taukei ihe tukunga Faka-tohitapu,, Koe ha ho'o mou lau 'amoutolu ?

 

na' akoe me'a tatau pe 'eni moe me'a ne fekuki moe 'Eiki,,,,,, Koe ha 'ae Lau 'ae Kakai ? Koe ha ho'o mou lau 'amoutolu ( Kau akonga ) ....

 

'E malava kiateki-mautolu ni fakatafetafe me'i ivi he kelesi meihe 'Eiki Mo'onia , ,, kemau ma'u ivi 'oka ka mou kau " TaliFakataha mai mo Pita ..... You are the Messiah the Son God ..

 

koe hikoveve holo pe mahalo ne fai heni e ki'i uaine kulokula, 'anepo ..

 

tuku keu hunuki mu'a hee , kau toki fakalanga ;

Latu-Tufunga.



From: seni taniela <seni...@yahoo.com.au>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, 21 May, 2011 7:45:38 AM
Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Andre Gide
--

jione havea

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May 20, 2011, 8:02:10 PM5/20/11
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Sami, hange kiate au ko koe mo au mo hota mafai ke fakapapau’i e mo’oni ‘oku fehu’ia

 

‘e kei mo’oni pe ‘a e mo’oni, pea loi pe ‘a e loi ...

 

ka ‘oku ‘ikai ta’ofi ai hota faingamalie ke fakamahamahalo. Mahalo mai koe mei hena, kau mahalo atu au mei heni ... ‘ohovale pe kuo mafuli e “mahalo” ia ki he “aloha” ... pea ta pule-taha leva ‘o heka he loli ki liku ...

 

 

>>==<<Talanoa >>==<<

 

this email is sent from an old clunky computer ... hope it gets through ...

Sepesi H Piukala

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May 20, 2011, 8:23:16 PM5/20/11
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Ko e meá tatau pe áe hala ha háu mei ha famili kehe ó fakahanga mai haáne lea ki he famili óku tau kau ki ai, pea fakahanga atu haá tautoluu ki he tokotaha ko ia. Kapau ko e konga ó e feinga á Gide ke fakakaunga oo mo Ia pea óku faíteliha ia ke lea ha meá óku fie lea ai, ka ó kapaú koéne feinga ke taáki áe fakavaé ó e meá óku ou fokoutua pea ne ámanaki heíkai faingofua , he tene feinga ke úluaki hiki au/tautolu moétau ngaótoóta ó tuku ki hono falefakatolo, foki mai ó taáki áe fakavaé naá toe fokoutua ai taha,fakasio mo hoku kaunga kalaisitiane kotoa pee hange ko ia óku ne lolotonga fai he taimi ni.
Lau á e Fehuí mo e Tali II
 
Fehuí 10 : KO e ha e lau áe ÉIki kiate kinautolu óku íkai tui kiate Ia ?
 
Tali: Óku ne fakahaa, óku totonu pe kenau tui kiate Ia; pea kuo nau tui oka nenau tali angavaivai mo hangahanga tokanga ki heéne ngahi lea.
Sione VIII:46- 47.
 
Ko Gide óku taau ke tui ki he Éiki ko Sisu Kalaisi, pea ko e kakai ena óku ifo ai e mata fakamaáta .
 
takamuli.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Sepesi H. Piukala
Ph: +61401 590 917
 
Exodus 2:6 Then he said, "I am the God of your Father, the God of Abraham, the God of Issac and the God of Jacob."
*****************************************************************************************************************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: tasil...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tasil...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ke...@post.com
Sent: Friday, 20 May 2011 5:41 PM
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Andre Gide

Sam Pakofe

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May 20, 2011, 10:59:56 PM5/20/11
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hahahaa, mo'oni 'aupito ia Jh,,, koe ki'i ongoongo fakatu'a pe 'eni ...
 
Ne tautea 'ehe fakamaau, ha matapule ke ngaue ta'u 'e 1 mahina e 6 , koe faka'uli ta'e laiseni, hili koia ne 'osi 'oange kiai e fakatokanga tu'o 4, pea ne ta'e tokanga kiai pea ne iku ange kihe nofo 'oku 'ikai tene sai'ia ai..
 
Lolotonga 'ene ihe 'api ( pilisone) kuo toe puke ia 'o tukuaki'i kihe tamate tangata, koe 'uhi koe kaa nana'e faka'uli ai koe ka ia na'ae 'iai ' pe na'e ngaue'aki 'ehe tangata tamate ..
 
Ne fai e fetukuaki ai, pea koe me'a pe ne hoko ne fakatou felotoi 'ae talatalaki , moe fakamaau, ko "simon" koia nene fai e tamate.. Fakaloloma kihe famili pea pehe kihe ki'i talavouni,,
 
Fakafoki e ki'i talavou ni, kihe maximum security .. 'osi mei ai e 'aho e uike 'e 3,  ma'u mai e tangata tamate meihe Victoria..  me'a tatau pe nene fai heni moe me'a nene fai 'i Victoria,, fakahoa atu koia pe , toki ma'u mai koe kaa ne heka ai 'a simon, ne toe heka pe ai 'ae tangata tamate 'ihe 'ene kaiha'a e ka meihe 'api o simon 'o fai 'ene tamaate pea ne toe fakafoki mai 'e ka kihe 'api 'oe ongomatau'a 'a simon..
 
'e 'ataa , 'a simon e Pulelulu uike ka ha'u ...( fakafiefia ) ,, tokua ne pehe 'ehe loea 'a simon,,, koe lea 'ae Fa'ee 'a simon........kihe kau polisi ihe ofisi fakamaau,  " You have to beleived & trust in all witness also the  documents you written against my son before you sign and confirm ..,, I'll pray for the "life of my son "..
 
mo'oni lahi ho'o lau Jh,, tuku e kau mahalo kenau fakamahamahalo, kae fili kita pe 'oku " te maau nai mo'ete tui ", pea ka 'ikai , pea te nofonofo aipe he fakamahamahalo he e 'iai pe ha fo'i pa 'ae mana pe te 'ohovale ai 'o " mahalo tonu ee..hahahaa
 
sami.
 
 

From: jione havea <jha...@gmail.com>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, 21 May, 2011 10:02:10 AM
Subject: RE: [tasilisili] Andre Gide
--

ke...@post.com

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May 21, 2011, 5:05:47 AM5/21/11
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seni:

Loke malo e tau mo e faifatongia mei hena. Fai atu pee ha ki'i lafo kia Gide, he oku hangee ha taha oku pehee mai, "Muimui mai" pea tau pehee atu, "ko ho 'alu ki fee?" pea pehee mai, "Hei'ilo pee ko eku alu ki fee?"

---

Malo Seni pea malo e fakatalanoa. Ko ho'o lave 'i 'olunga te ta kehekehe pe. Ko 'eku sio 'aku 'oku hange ha taha 'oku sio ki he mo'oni ko e me'a 'e 'ikai pe 'ilo'i hono kotoa. Te tau 'ilo pe ko e mo'oni ko ee ko e ha'u mei he mo'oni 'oku tau fekumi ki ai pea talamai 'e ee mo e mo'oni 'oku ne ma'u mei he mo'oni tatau pe, ka ko e pehe mai ha taha ko e kotoa eni kuo u ma'u...fakafeta''i 'alu aa 'o maloloo.

malie fakafehu'i kia Gide, ka 'oku hoko ho'o fakafehu'i ke ne fakamahino 'oku tau fekumi 'i he funga 'o e fekumi. 'I he tafa'aki 'e taha, 'oku tau feinga ke fokotu'u ha 'truth' funga 'i he 'truth'. Ka faka'ikai'i 'a Gide pea kuo hoko leva 'etau lau ko e 'truth'...ka ko 'etau lau ko ia ko e taupotu ia 'o e 'truth'?

malie e taukave,
loke

__________________________________ 

seni taniela

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May 21, 2011, 8:35:03 AM5/21/11
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On Sat, 21/5/11, ke...@post.com <ke...@post.com> wrote:
 Ko ho'o lave 'i 'olunga te ta kehekehe pe. Ko 'eku sio 'aku 'oku hange ha taha 'oku sio ki he mo'oni ko e me'a 'e 'ikai pe 'ilo'i hono kotoa. Te tau 'ilo pe ko e mo'oni ko ee ko e ha'u mei he mo'oni 'oku tau fekumi ki ai pea talamai 'e ee mo e mo'oni 'oku ne ma'u mei he mo'oni tatau pe, ka ko e pehe mai ha taha ko e kotoa eni kuo u ma'u...fakafeta''i 'alu aa 'o maloloo.
=============================================================
Kiate au ko e fehalaaki e fakatonulea 'a Gide fekau'aki mo ha taukave 'e ha taha 'oku ne 'ilo ki he mo'oni fekau'aki mo ha me'a, pe ko ha taha, pee ko e 'Otuaa, ko e pehee nai kuo pau ke te ilo hono kotoa (exhaustively knowing with certainty).  Ka tau 'eke ki he tasilisili pe oku 'ilo 'e ha taha a Fakapulia, tokolahi taha te nau pehee mai, "Io"  Do they know everything about him.  No.  Does it mean they lie when they say that they know Fakapulia?  Mole ke mama'o.  Ka tau 'eke kia Fakapulia pee oku ne ilo a Pamela.  Tuai e kemo ene talamai 'Io.  Ka tau 'eke ki ai pe oku ne ilo kanokato a Pamela.  'E mo'oni e fale'i he nofo malii ki he ngaahi husepaniti.  God is the greatest mystery.  Next to that is our wives and a good husband will make it his lifelong goal is to study the mystery and the beauty of his wife in order to love her richly.

Mo'oni ho'o lauu Loke, oku te'eki ai ha taha ke ne ilo kanokato e 'Otuaa pee ko e Mo'oni fekau'aki mo Ia.  Ka oku ikai uhinga ia ke pehee ai, oku 'ikai ha mo ia pea mo e founga totonu ke tau 'ilo ai IAA.  Ka hangee ka 'oku 'ikai uhinga ia oku ta'emalava ke tau ilo ai kiate Ia, pea ko e 'uhinga ia hono omi e Tohitapuu ke ne fakahaa'i mai Ia pea mo Ne talamai ke tau 'ofa ange ki Ai hotau kotoa kau ai mo hotau 'atamai. 

Pehee e Paula kia Timote "That is why I am suffering as I am. Yet I am not ashamed, because I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him for that day."  Paul is saying to Gide, "Gide, I found the Truth.  I know Him.That's why I accept suffering.  That's why I warn the tasilisili of false prophets and false teachings."

Hangee kiate au oku pehee mai 'a Gide, "Paul you are lying.  We should keep away from you because you do not know everything about Him. You dont know all truth about God."  Mahalo e pehee mai a Paul, "Gide, do you know everything about yourself?  Do you know every truth about you? Since you don't know every thing that is true about you therefore you should not know that you exist.

Fakaoli e 'osi e pehee mai e Paul "I know Him whom I believe" kae toe a'u ki he taataaiku ene mo'uii kuo kei pehee mai pee, "I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his suffering, being like Him in His death."

Oku fasi'i fe'unga pee fakailo mai 'e he 'Otua ia ke tau confidently say, We know him whom we believe.  Pea toe faalahi ta'efakangatangata ke ne feau 'etau intellectual hunger to get to know Him more, event though we cannot know Him ALL.  Fanongo talanoa ko e lea kaliki ki he "KNOW" oku ngaue'aki Paulaa ko e uhinga ki he intimate knowledge oku lava ke ma'u pee ehe husepaniti moe uaifi.  Pea 'oua na'a ngalo he'ikai lava ke tau ilo ia ha'atau intellectually study Scriptures alone pea mo kotoa e ngaahi tohi fakalotuu oku ikai asi he tohitapuu kae'oua KUONE FAKA"ATAA MAI IA ke tau 'ilo Ia.  Ko e 'uhinga ia oku faiako teolosia ai a Bart Erhman kae kei fakaikaiSisu pee.


ke...@post.com

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May 21, 2011, 1:41:19 PM5/21/11
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> Mo'oni ho'o lauu Loke, oku te'eki ai ha taha ke ne
> ilo kanokato e 'Otuaa pee ko e Mo'oni fekau'aki mo Ia. 
> Ka oku ikai uhinga ia ke pehee ai, oku 'ikai ha mo ia
> pea mo e founga totonu ke tau 'ilo ai IAA.  Ka hangee
> ka 'oku 'ikai uhinga ia oku ta'emalava ke tau ilo ai kiate
> Ia, pea ko e 'uhinga ia hono omi e Tohitapuu ke ne fakahaa'i
> mai Ia pea mo Ne talamai ke tau 'ofa ange ki Ai hotau kotoa
> kau ai mo hotau 'atamai. 

---

Mahino 'aupito heni e me'a 'oku 'ikai ke ta fetaulaki ai ka 'Oku ke tui tatau mo au 'i he te'eki 'ilo kanokato 'a e 'Otua,period ko au ia fakakaukau. Ko e hoko atu ai ko 'eku lau, ko koe ia. Ko e "seeking" he tafa'aki 'e taha ke fakatokanga'i mo ia pe ko e fe 'category' 'oku too ai. Ko e ha 'etau fakatonulea ki hee'tau toutou lotu, lau e tohitapu esetela esetela. Hange kuo tau ma'u mo 'ilo pe mo'oni ka tau kei kumi pe? Pe 'oku mo'oni pe 'a Moulitoni he 569, "...kae lahi 'a e lelei 'oku tau 'ilo heni; 'o ma'u ha konga si'i 'o hono 'imisi....ka e huanoa ka fai 'etau femataaki; ha hono angatonu 'o sio ta'epulou, toki liliu ai au 'o ma'u hono tatau."

ko koe pe,
loke
 

seni taniela

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May 23, 2011, 8:24:10 PM5/23/11
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--- On Sat, 21/5/11, ke...@post.com <ke...@post.com> wrote:

Mahino 'aupito heni e me'a 'oku 'ikai ke ta fetaulaki ai ka 'Oku ke tui tatau mo au 'i he te'eki 'ilo kanokato 'a e 'Otua,period ko au ia fakakaukau. Ko e hoko atu ai ko 'eku lau, ko koe ia. Ko e "seeking" he tafa'aki 'e taha ke fakatokanga'i mo ia pe ko e fe 'category' 'oku too ai. Ko e ha 'etau fakatonulea ki hee'tau toutou lotu, lau e tohitapu esetela esetela. Hange kuo tau ma'u mo 'ilo pe mo'oni ka tau kei kumi pe?

 

Malo Loke

Kau fakataha mo koe ‘’i he tui ki he mahu’inga ‘etau hokohoko atu e fekumi ki he ‘Otuaa.  Ko e kumi ko ia ‘oku ta’emamotu pea ‘e toki tuku pee ha’atau hiki atu ki ‘itaniti. 

Ka tau manatu’I, ‘oku ‘ikai hangee kumi ki he ‘Otua ko e kumi ki he faito’o e AIDS, ke makatu’unga 'ata'ataa pe he ivi moe poto e kau fekumii mo enau ngaahi experiment trial and error, etc.  God has revealed Himself and He’s inviting us to be “still and know Him” to “seek Him with all our hearts and we will find Him” then we keep on seeking and we will keep on finding Him more and more etc.

Pea ko e kumi ko ia ki he ‘Otua kuo pau ke fai ‘i he fakangatangata ‘o e Mo’oni(an exclusive boundary of non contradicting truths about Him) fekau’aki pea mo Iaa.  ‘Oku ai e ngaahi makatuliki ‘oku ne ha’i kitautolu eg. Tolu Taha’I ‘Otua, Sisu ko e ‘Otua mo Tangata, Ko e Tui ‘a e Kau Apositolo etc.  ‘I loto hena, ‘oku fai atu etau kumi ke maheni mo Ia etc.

‘I loto ‘o e moana ko ‘enaa, ‘oku fai ai ‘etau too nounouu.  Pea ko e kehekehee ‘oku hangee ha’atau sio ki he tapatapa ‘o ha fo’I taiamoni etc. ka ‘oku nau tuhu kotoa ki he langilangi ‘o e ‘Otua eg.  ‘iai e kau Penitekosi, ‘iai e kau Palesipita, SUTT, Papitaiso, Katolika, Ingilani etc. pea fai ai ‘etau feako’aki, kehe ke mahino oku ha’I kitautolu ehe Kolosi a Kalaisi

 Pea fakatokanga’I eni, ‘oku tau kumi ki he ‘Otuaa, ko e kumi ke ‘ilo.  Pea ko e ‘ilo ko iaa ‘oku mahu’inga e me’a ‘e ua 1) ke too ‘I loto ‘i he Mo’onii; 2) ko e loto ‘a e ‘Otuaa ke ne faka’ilo mai Ia. 

Lava lelei ke ‘ilo ‘e he motu’a toutai i Fonoi e ‘Otuaa ‘o laka hake he motu’a toketaa faiako tohitapu he seminalio tohitapuu. Ako tohitapu a Bart Erhman pea iku o agnostic pea ne hae hifo e lotu faka-kalisitiane with his divinity degrees.

 Ko e tricky part eni ‘etau lotuu.  Ko e toketaa tohitapu ‘e lava ke fonu information about God, but God has hidden Himself from him because He’s arrogant or live an unholy life.  The Fonoi fisherman has limited reservoir of information about God, but God has revealed Himself through experience ki he motu’a he ‘oku ‘a’eva e motu’a ko ‘eni I he lototoo pea mo’ui ma’a.  “I live in a high and lofty place, but also with Him with Him who is humble in spirit and have a contrite heart.”   

Ko e me’a ‘oku ou disagree ai mo koee ko e assumption, since we do not fully comprehend God, then there is a possibility that every truth claim about Him are, perhaps,  equally valid eg. O hange ia ‘eLava pee ke mo’oni e tala’Otua ‘a e Buddhism etc.??  Lava feefee ke fakamali’I e pehee mai ‘e he Same, “The fool says in his heart there is no God” pea mo e atheistic worldview a e Buddhism?  Is God a God of contradictions?

Kapau te tau foki ki he lau a Gide, "Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.”  Ko e fehu’ii--If we are to keep on seeking the truth without ever finding it, why bother to seek the “unfoundable”?  Perhaps, we should firstly ask, does truth exist?  A fool does not know where he is going nor does he know what is he seeking?  If we have not found the truth then what are we preaching from the pulpit? a bunch of guesses, theories, doubts, man-made ideas, beliefs without convictions?  Ta ne’ine’I ke pekia e ngaahi siasi lahi ko e preaching without the conviction that “This is the Word of God…God has spoken...This is the truth that will set us and the world free”

Talamai e Paula 13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits[a] to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.” Fehu’I kia Gide, Did Paul find the truth?  Did the first Christians believe the Truth or a bunch of lies?

Talamai ‘e Pita, “ 22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart.[a]   Fehu’I kia Gide, “How can they obey the truth without finding it?

 

Talamai e Sisu: “I am the TRUTH  32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

 

Perhaps we don’t need to seek the truth.  We need to open our hearts to the truth.  The TRUTH HAS FOUND US, but we choose not to be found.  The cat should chase the mouse and not the mouse chasing the cat.  The problem is not that truth is hard to be found; the problem is that our hearts are resisting the truth by thinking, like Gide, that we will find it without the Truth's prevenient grace.

 

Saikolone Taufa

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May 23, 2011, 11:01:25 PM5/23/11
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Seni, matamata kiate au, koe taha ia hotau natula'i tangata/fefine - ko'etau feinga ma'u pe ke fa'o hotau 'Otua ha fu'u koteina pe na'a tau fa'u, koe'uhi ke lava pe ketau controll. 'Oku hange pe ia ko'etau feinga ko'eni ke fa'o pe kitautolu kotoa (tangata moe fefine) ha fu'u system pe na'a tau fa'u koe 'uhi ke lava pe 'o controll.
 
'Oku ou kau fakataha au mo Paul he'ene ipiseli 'oe uike ni - ko homa 'Otua koe 'Otua 'oe UNKNOWN. Koe fekumi moe vivili moe fononga fakataha moe 'Otua UNKNOWN ko'eni, 'oku ne hanga ma'u pe 'o toutou fakamanatu kiate au 'ae 'ikai ke fakapotopoto 'ae ngaahi fu'u koniteina pelesitiki ko'eni kuomou fa'o kiai hoku 'Otua mo Paul. moe 'ofa moe lotu. Lone

Semisi Kava

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May 24, 2011, 12:04:17 AM5/24/11
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Lone: 'Oku ou kau fakataha au mo Paul he'ene ipiseli 'oe uike ni - ko homa 'Otua koe 'Otua 'oe UNKNOWN. Koe fekumi moe vivili moe fononga fakataha moe 'Otua UNKNOWN ko'eni, 'oku ne hanga ma'u pe 'o toutou fakamanatu kiate au 'ae 'ikai ke fakapotopoto 'ae ngaahi fu'u koniteina pelesitiki ko'eni kuomou fa'o kiai hoku 'Otua mo Paul.
-------
Malo tokoua e fakakohukohu mai! Mahalo na'a ala talanga'i pe 'ae 'uhinga 'a Paula 'o fakatatau pe ki he context 'ene fepotalanoa'aki moe kau 'Epikulio, kau Sitoiko moe kau Filosefa Kalisi. " Pea kuo tu'u 'a Paula 'i he loto 'Aleopeiko pea ne pehee 'A matapule 'Atenisi 'oku ha kiate au 'i he me'a kehekehe 'oku ou sio kin ai ta koe kakai kimoutolu 'oku hulu atu he tauhi fa'ahi kehe. He lolotonga 'eku 'alu fano 'ou tokanga'i 'ae ngaahi me'a 'oku mou lotu ki ai 'ou 'ilo foki ha 'olita na'e tohi ai 'ae lea ni MOO HA 'OTUA TE'EKI 'ILOA. Pea koe me'a 'oku mou lotu ta'e'ilo ki ai ko 'eni ia 'oku ou fakaha atu ni kiate kimoutolu" (Ngaue 17:22-23).
 
Koe ha 'ae taumu'a na'e fai ai 'e Paula 'ae lea ni? Koe ha e me'a na'e ta'e'ilo kuo toki 'ai 'e Paula ke faka'ilo? Ko ha'ane lea ki ha kakai lotu mo'oni/ maheni mo Sisu? pe ko ha'ane toki kamata ke faka'ilo atu 'a Sisu? Ko 'ene lea koe fakamo'oni ki ha me'a pe ko 'ene fakamanatu atu pe ha me'a? Na'e fakatokanga'i koaa 'e Paula ha me'a 'oku tomu'a ke 'uluaki mahino kae toki hoko atu 'ene fakamo'oni? Ko ha'ane tali nai 'eni 'o a fehu'i na'e fakapatonu mai pe ko ha'ane fehu'i atu? 'E ala 'omi nai 'ae context 'oe talanoa ni ( tukunga 'oe mahino'i 'oe Tohitapu) ki he issue ni?
 
Kau tasilisili 'oku 'ikai keu tui ki he fakakaukau tokua 'oku tau fa'o 'ae 'Otua (tapu mo ia) 'i ha puha fua. 'Oku 'i ai pe 'ae ngaahi issue ia he Tohitapu 'oku ala talanoa'i pea 'oku lahi atu! Ka ko e talanoa foki na'a tau fakama'unga ki ai 'ae pehee 'e Sisu "KO AU PE 'AE HALA/MO'ONI/MO'UI" 'ikai mo ha toe hala ki he Tamai ngata pe 'ia Sisuu. Koe pehe ko ia ko hoku 'Otua koe UNKNOWN 'oku ki'i fakapopo'uli ia keu ngaue'aki koe'uhii koe (author intent) pea 'e ala kola'i ia.  'Oku 'ikai koe pehee kuo katoi ia ha taha ka kuo ne 'osi fakahaa'i mai ia ha konga si'i 'o 'ene 'ilo'i kitautolu kae 'ikai ko kitautolu 'oku tau 'ilo'i ia! Sai kapau koe konga si'i 'eni pea 'oku toe malie pe mo ia he 'oku 'ikai mafai ha taha ke define 'ae si'i ko ia! Pea 'oku 'uhinga lelei pe ia ke hoko atu 'ae fekumi ki he konga konga si'i ko ia. 'Oku ou fakamamafa pe au kainga he 'etau kei kikivi pe ke 'eke'i koaa 'ae hala! pe koe hala ki fee? moe ha e 'uhinga 'oku hala ai e hala? moe ha fua 'ae ngaahi me'a vakai matangi ki ai! 'Oku 'i ai pe foki e me'a ke 'eke moe me'a ke 'oua toe 'eke he mala'e 'o e fakatotolo kapau ko ha fehu'i te ne 'ave mama'o au mei he kaveinga! Moha 'Otua te'eki 'iloa!!uummmm! ko au mo Paula ko homa 'Otua koe Unknown God!?? uummmm!!eeehhh!!???? '"Oku ou 'ilo 'a hoku huhu'i ne fua 'eku hia he funga Kolosi 'o ui keu 'alu 'o ma'u 'ae mo'ui pea falafeta'i na'a ku 'alu 'o ma'u! kae fefe 'a koe, 'a koe 'ala?" (Himi 504:1)
 
Kamata e momoko faufau atu 'a 'uta ni ni! Tau kau fakataha he hufia atu si'i kakai kuo nau faingata'a'ia mo tukuhausia moe kakai kuo pekia ha'anau ngaahi kupu he too 'ae 'ahiohio tornado 'i he fonua lahi na!(usa)
 
Kavauhi

From: Saikolone Taufa <taufach...@xtra.co.nz>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, 24 May, 2011 1:01:25 PM

Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Andre Gide

Seni, matamata kiate au, koe taha ia hotau natula'i tangata/fefine - ko'etau feinga ma'u pe ke fa'o hotau 'Otua ha fu'u koteina pe na'a tau fa'u, koe'uhi ke lava pe ketau controll. 'Oku hange pe ia ko'etau feinga ko'eni ke fa'o pe kitautolu kotoa (tangata moe fefine) ha fu'u system pe na'a tau fa'u koe 'uhi ke lava pe 'o controll.
 
'Oku ou kau fakataha au mo Paul he'ene ipiseli 'oe uike ni - ko homa 'Otua koe 'Otua 'oe UNKNOWN. Koe fekumi moe vivili moe fononga fakataha moe 'Otua UNKNOWN ko'eni, 'oku ne hanga ma'u pe 'o toutou fakamanatu kiate au 'ae 'ikai ke fakapotopoto 'ae ngaahi fu'u koniteina pelesitiki ko'eni kuomou fa'o kiai hoku 'Otua mo Paul. moe 'ofa moe lotu. Lone

--

ke...@post.com

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May 24, 2011, 1:19:56 AM5/24/11
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Seni:


Ko e me’a ‘oku ou disagree ai mo koee ko e assumption, since we do not fully comprehend God, then there is a possibility that every truth claim about Him are, perhaps,  equally valid eg. O hange ia ‘eLava pee ke mo’oni e tala’Otua ‘a e Buddhism etc.??  Lava feefee ke fakamali’I e pehee mai ‘e he Same, “The fool says in his heart there is no God” pea mo e atheistic worldview a e Buddhism?  Is God a God of contradictions?



---

Malo malo e taukave. Ko e okooko pe eni makatuunga 'ia Gide, 'oku 'a'au ke tui ki ai pe 'ikai. 'Io 'oku ke mo'oni 'i he fakakaukau 'oku ta faikehekehe ai he 'oku ke talanoa 'i he 'truth' 'oku base 'i he human institutions, belief, actions and so forth (Subjective ontology). Ko e ng. mo'oni mahino mo maheni ia 'oku ta kautaha he tui ki ai. 'I he truth ko eni 'oku 'i ai konga lahi ho'o ng. fakamo'oni pea ko e ng. 'truth' 'oku 'by definition' (tautological truth) (2+2=4). Ko e ng. 'truth' ne paasi mai mei he uma ki he uma 'o ta a'usia he ng. 'aho ni fakataha mo ia 'eta fekumi mo e fakahaa mai...fakamafana ia!

 

Ko e 'truth' 'oku ou tokanga atu ki ai (Objective ontology)'oku ou faka'amu ke ke hila hake ki he mo'unga 'o fakamatala'i ange 'a hono 'truth'...pea 'eke leva, "Ko e 'osi ee 'o e 'truth' fekau'aki mo e mo'unga?"

 


'Io, ko 'eku taukave ia "we do not fully comprehend God" he 'oku 'ikai ke u 'ilo hono loto mo 'ene fakakaukau, 'ilo ia 'i tu'a mo loto mo e mingimingi'i me'a kotoa pe fekau'aki mo IA. Kapau kuo lava 'o tatae pea toki ta'alo mai.

 

'Oku 'ikai ke u fa'a lava e fakamo'oni tohitapu, ka 'oku ou mafana pe he Himi 535.

 


loke

 

__________________________________ 

"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it."---Andre Gide (1869 - 1951)


 

----- Original Message -----

From: seni taniela

Sent: 05/23/11 05:24 PM

To: tasil...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Andre Gide


--- On Sat, 21/5/11, ke...@post.com <ke...@post.com> wrote:

Mahino 'aupito heni e me'a 'oku 'ikai ke ta fetaulaki ai ka 'Oku ke tui tatau mo au 'i he te'eki 'ilo kanokato 'a e 'Otua,period ko au ia fakakaukau. Ko e hoko atu ai ko 'eku lau, ko koe ia. Ko e "seeking" he tafa'aki 'e taha ke fakatokanga'i mo ia pe ko e fe 'category' 'oku too ai. Ko e ha 'etau fakatonulea ki hee'tau toutou lotu, lau e tohitapu esetela esetela. Hange kuo tau ma'u mo 'ilo pe mo'oni ka tau kei kumi pe?

 

 

 

Malo Loke

 

 

Kau fakataha mo koe ‘’i he tui ki he mahu’inga ‘etau hokohoko atu e fekumi ki he ‘Otuaa.  Ko e kumi ko ia ‘oku ta’emamotu pea ‘e toki tuku pee ha’atau hiki atu ki ‘itaniti. 

 

 

Ka tau manatu’I, ‘oku ‘ikai hangee kumi ki he ‘Otua ko e kumi ki he faito’o e AIDS, ke makatu’unga 'ata'ataa pe he ivi moe poto e kau fekumii mo enau ngaahi experiment trial and error, etc.  God has revealed Himself and He’s inviting us to be “still and know Him” to “seek Him with all our hearts and we will find Him” then we keep on seeking and we will keep on finding Him more and more etc.

 

 

Pea ko e kumi ko ia ki he ‘Otua kuo pau ke fai ‘i he fakangatangata ‘o e Mo’oni(an exclusive boundary of non contradicting truths about Him) fekau’aki pea mo Iaa.  ‘Oku ai e ngaahi makatuliki ‘oku ne ha’i kitautolu eg. Tolu Taha’I ‘Otua, Sisu ko e ‘Otua mo Tangata, Ko e Tui ‘a e Kau Apositolo etc.  ‘I loto hena, ‘oku fai atu etau kumi ke maheni mo Ia etc.

 

 

‘I loto ‘o e moana ko ‘enaa, ‘oku fai ai ‘etau too nounouu.  Pea ko e kehekehee ‘oku hangee ha’atau sio ki he tapatapa ‘o ha fo’I taiamoni etc. ka ‘oku nau tuhu kotoa ki he langilangi ‘o e ‘Otua eg.  ‘iai e kau Penitekosi, ‘iai e kau Palesipita, SUTT, Papitaiso, Katolika, Ingilani etc. pea fai ai ‘etau feako’aki, kehe ke mahino oku ha’I kitautolu ehe Kolosi a Kalaisi

 

 

 Pea fakatokanga’I eni, ‘oku tau kumi ki he ‘Otuaa, ko e kumi ke ‘ilo.  Pea ko e ‘ilo ko iaa ‘oku mahu’inga e me’a ‘e ua 1) ke too ‘I loto ‘i he Mo’onii; 2) ko e loto ‘a e ‘Otuaa ke ne faka’ilo mai Ia. 

Lava lelei ke ‘ilo ‘e he motu’a toutai i Fonoi e ‘Otuaa ‘o laka hake he motu’a toketaa faiako tohitapu he seminalio tohitapuu. Ako tohitapu a Bart Erhman pea iku o agnostic pea ne hae hifo e lotu faka-kalisitiane with his divinity degrees.

 

 

 Ko e tricky part eni ‘etau lotuu.  Ko e toketaa tohitapu ‘e lava ke fonu information about God, but God has hidden Himself from him because He’s arrogant or live an unholy life.  The Fonoi fisherman has limited reservoir of information about God, but God has revealed Himself through experience ki he motu’a he ‘oku ‘a’eva e motu’a ko ‘eni I he lototoo pea mo’ui ma’a.  “I live in a high and lofty place, but also with Him with Him who is humble in spirit and have a contrite heart.”   

 

 

 

 

 

Kapau te tau foki ki he lau a Gide, "Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.”  Ko e fehu’ii--If we are to keep on seeking the truth without ever finding it, why bother to seek the “unfoundable”?  Perhaps, we should firstly ask, does truth exist?  A fool does not know where he is going nor does he know what is he seeking?  If we have not found the truth then what are we preaching from the pulpit? a bunch of guesses, theories, doubts, man-made ideas, beliefs without convictions?  Ta ne’ine’I ke pekia e ngaahi siasi lahi ko e preaching without the conviction that “This is the Word of God…God has spoken...This is the truth that will set us and the world free”

 

 

Talamai e Paula 13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers and sisters loved by the Lord, because God chose you as firstfruits[a] to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth.” Fehu’I kia Gide, Did Paul find the truth?  Did the first Christians believe the Truth or a bunch of lies?

Talamai ‘e Pita, “ 22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart.[a]   Fehu’I kia Gide, “How can they obey the truth without finding it?

 

 

 

 

Talamai e Sisu: “I am the TRUTH  32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

 

 

 

 

Perhaps we don’t need to seek the truth.  We need to open our hearts to the truth.  The TRUTH HAS FOUND US, but we choose not to be found.  The cat should chase the mouse and not the mouse chasing the cat.  The problem is not that truth is hard to be found; the problem is that our hearts are resisting the truth by thinking, like Gide, that we will find it without the Truth's prevenient grace.

 

 

--

Saikolone Taufa

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May 24, 2011, 1:38:23 AM5/24/11
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Malo Kavauhi, pea 'oku ou kau pe au he tui tatau mo koee, tukukehe 'ae ngaahi fu'u fehu'i mamafa ko'eni kuo ke tuku mai, 'aia 'oku 'ikai keu tui teu lava 'e au 'o tali (ke tatau mo ho'o fiema'u).
 
Mei he lilu fakatonga ko'ena 'oku ke ngaue 'aki mai  'aki ki he veesi 22 moe 23 , tautautefito ki he konga ko'eni -   "Pea kuo tu'u 'a Paula 'i he loto 'Aleopeiko pea ne pehee 'A matapule 'Atenisi 'oku ha kiate au 'i he me'a kehekehe 'oku ou sio kin ai ta koe kakai kimoutolu 'oku hulu atu he tauhi fa'ahi kehe" - 'oku ne fakamahino mai 'oku culturally conditioned 'a 'etau mahinoo kapau tetau fakamoleki ha taimi ke fakafehoanaki 'ae ngaahi liliu tohitapu kuo fai ki he veesi ko'enii.
 
Koe mahino (culturally conditioned but well informed) kiate au 'oe lau 'a Paul ko'eni, ko'ene talaange 'eni ki he kau Atenisi - koe 'Otua ta'e'iloa 'oku mou lotu kiai 'oku 'iai 'eku ki'i ma'u vaivai kiai, pea 'oku matamata koe feinga 'eni 'a Paul ke fakafekau'aki 'ae 'Otua ta'e'iloa 'oe kau 'Atenisi moe Sisu Toe'tu'u ko'eni 'oku fetakai holo moiaa.
 
'Oku ou tui tatau mo koe 'i he pehee 'oku 'ikai fa'o puhaa 'ae 'Otuaa 'aia 'oku mei tatau ia moe pehee 'e Paul  'oku 'ikai fa'o 'ae 'Otuaa 'i he ngaahi 'imisi koula mo siliva (he ngaahi falelotu 'oe kau 'Atenisi). Ka 'oku ou ngaue au moe ngaahi 'imisi ke tokoni ki he mahino ange 'ae 'Otuaa kiate au. Koe lahi foki 'o'eku mahino ki he 'Otuaa 'oku fa'o he ngaahi 'imisi pe model fakaeau pe 'aia kuo 'osi fa'u pe ia 'e hoku culture ma'a 'aku ('ihe lau ia 'a'aku). Ka 'i he taimi tatau 'oku mahino pe kiate au 'ae feinga 'a Paul ke fokotu'u ha ngaahi 'imisi 'aia koee tene lava 'o fakamahino lelei ange 'ae Sisu Toetu'u 'oku ne malanga'i. Koe 'imisi 'oe "offspring", 'aee na'e lave'i 'e Paul,  'oku ou faka'ofo'ofa'ia ai pea 'oku mahino ngofua kiate au - neongo 'oku nau tatau pe moe ngaahi 'imisi kehee 'o 'iai pe hono ngata'anga 'a'enau malava ke fakamahino 'ae 'Otuaa.
 
'Ofa atu Kavauhi tuku e toenga ke 'ave'i ia ki ha tepile 'oe lesoni 'oe Sapate, kae 'ataa 'e tepile ia ' Andre, Moe 'ofa moe lotu. Lone
 
 

seni taniela

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May 24, 2011, 5:37:35 AM5/24/11
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On Mon, 23/5/11, Saikolone Taufa <taufach...@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Seni, matamata kiate au, koe taha ia hotau natula'i tangata/fefine - ko'etau feinga ma'u pe ke fa'o hotau 'Otua ha fu'u koteina pe na'a tau fa'u, koe'uhi ke lava pe ketau controll. 'Oku hange pe ia ko'etau feinga ko'eni ke fa'o pe kitautolu kotoa (tangata moe fefine) ha fu'u system pe na'a tau fa'u koe 'uhi ke lava pe 'o controll.
=============================================================
Ko e palanite ko mamani ko e supamaketi 'o e ngaahi lotuu (a supermarket of religions).  Fele 'enau takitaha tu'uaki.  Fele 'a e fepakipaki 'enau ngaahi taukavee. 
 
Tau to'o hotau Kalisitianee 'o tuku ki tafa'aki ka tau hoko ko e kau ta'etui 'Otua pea tau mavahe he kemoo 'o fetaa'utu'i mai mei Puluto pea tau 'omi e ngaahi fehu'i lalahi e mo'uii ne fai ki ai e lave ki mu'a --Ko 'etau ha'u mei fee (Origin)? , Ko e haa  e 'uhinga oku tau i heni (Purpose & Meaning), Lava fee ke 'oua fepakipaki hotau fanga ki'i vaka (Ethics), Hili eni pea haa (Destiny) pea fakakaukau atu ki ai pea mo e 'Otuaa--'Oku nai ha 'Otua?  'Otua fefee? Teu a'u feefee ki ai etc? 
 
Faka'ataa ke 'omi 'enau ngaahi tali ka tau sio ki he fepakipakii mo e fakaninimoo.  'Eva atu ki Initia ki he lotu Hinituu, te nau talamai 'oku fele 'a e 'otua pea 'e a'u ki 330 milionaa e lahi e ngaahi 'Otuaa.  Fononga hake ki 'Esia kia Gautama Buddha ka ne pehee mai,  " he 'oku ai ha koaa ha 'Otua?" Kotoa 'a e ngaahi lotuu, hala'ataa ke tui ha lotu 'oku hala 'enau tuii.  Tui kotoa pee 'oku tonu. 
 
Ka, 'oku talamai 'e he taha e ngaahi lao 'o e losikaa (Law of Non-Contradiction) 'oku malava ke hala kotoa e ngaahi taukave a e ngaahi tui fakalotuu he 'oku nau fepakipaki mo fesitu'a'aki 'enau tali ki he ngaaahi fehu'i lalahi 'o e mo'uii,fakataha pea mo e enau tala'Otuaa.  Toe malava ke tonu e taha, kae hala katoa e toee.('Isa!!! logic is too arrogant to say that)  Ka, 'oku ta'emalava ke tonu kotoa he 'oku nau fepakipaki.  (Manatu'i e lau 'a Sione 1: 1 "I he kamata'angaa na'e 'iai 'a Logos"...logic...pee ko common sense).
 
If Absolute Truth does not exist, then we can not be sure of anything (spiritual or not).  Te tau hoko ko e kau agnostics (ta'epau'ia pe oku malava koaa ke tau 'ilo ha me'a), pee ko ha kau pluralists (accepthing every thing since we are not sure if any is right).  Tau fa'ofua he kotoa e ngaahi lotuu.  All paths (religions) lead to our big "unknown, unboxed God."  Ko e culture Amelika ni, oku dominate 'e he pluralistic view, pea toe a'u mai ki he kau lotuu.
 
Ko e fehu'ii--How can all religions lead to God while their very own definitions of God contradicted one another.  If their definitons of our destination differ from one another, how can we say that all roads lead to God.  Mo'oni e lauu, if you don't know where you are going, any road will take you there. 
 
Talamai 'e Folofoloa (Logos/Logic), I am the way to your desination(God).  Get to know me and you will know Him.  Get to know the Way and you will find your way.
 
Kaikehe, ko e ngaahi taukave 'a Lone he telipe ko 'eni, 'oku mata'aa'aa e huhukia ene theology he pluralism, pea oku faingofua ke detect how pluralism plays it rules in our world today including our churches.  It goes like this.  Philosophically, you can believe anything so long as you dont claim it to be true.  Morally, you can practice anything, so long as you don't claim it's a better way.  Religiously, you can hold to anything, so long as you don't mention the name of Christ (especially in public), or claim it to be the only Way.
 
Fakatokanga mai 'a common sense 1) All religions are not the same; 2) All religions do not point to God; 3) All religions do not say or claim that all religions are the same.
 
Lone, ko Mo'oni 'oku 'ikai ke Ne tali e me'a kotoa pee 'oku mo'oni mo tonu.    Pea oku apply ia he Fikaa, mo e to manioke, mo e a'a fekee, pea ko e 'uhinga ne tafulu'i e Sisu e kau faifekauu 'o talaange ko e kau ngata fekai, kuo tapuni e matapaa o e Pule'angaa mei kakaii ko e 'ikai ha'anau koniteinaa!!!
 
Ta ne'ine'i ke talamai e Sisu 'oku fasi'i e Hala ki he Pule'angaa.  Kapau 'oku falahi ta'efakangatangata e founga hotau 'Otuaa, 'o ikai te tau ilo e tonu pea mo e hala, taa ko e 'otua 'oku lele konaa fakataha mo hono kau muimuiii.  It's an aimless, loveless, lifeless, truthless, meaningless, godless god!!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 

tv

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May 24, 2011, 6:02:04 AM5/24/11
to Tasilisili-he-ngaluope

Ko e "seeking" he tafa'aki 'e taha ke fakatokanga'i mo ia pe ko e fe
'category' 'oku too ai. Ko e ha 'etau fakatonulea ki hee'tau toutou
lotu, lau e tohitapu esetela esetela. Hange kuo tau ma'u mo 'ilo pe
mo'oni ka tau kei kumi pe? >  loke
>
> __________________________________
>  "Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it."---Andre Gide (1869 - 1951)
-----------------------

Kataki Loke kau kaunoa atu.

Ko 'eku hiki mai pee konga ho'o tasilisili 'i 'olunga ko 'eku pehee
ngalingali 'oku hehema e fakafehu'i ni? Ko 'eku fakamahalo'i 'oku
hangee 'oku pehee 'e he fehu'i ko 'eku lau pee tohitapu so many times,
and perhaps pray so many times, pea ngali 'oku fe'unga 'aanoa ke ne
pukepuke kita he hala ki he mo'oni (sustain me in truth?).

Ko e mo'ui lau Tohitapu, mo e mo'ui lotu 'e ngali fe'unga ange keu
pehee: ko e kumi ivi ke taliteke'i e fili moe 'ahi'ahi pea mo e
ha'aha'a 'o e fononga'anga. Kapau ko e kumi 'mo'oni' 'o hangee ko e
hu'u ho'o fehu'i 'i 'olunga pea 'oku tototnu ke ke toe 'ai ke mahino
ange - ko e mo'oni ki he ha? The truth about what? He 'e ngali 'oku
'aonga ange ha'aku lau e ngaahi tohi totonu ke ne veteange 'a e fifili
ki he "mo'oni" 'o kapau 'e 'uluaki tali e fehu'i ko eni 'oku ou toki
fokotu'u atu.

Ko e toutou lau nai e Tohitapu ko e fekumi ki he 'Otua (who says he is
the 'truth'), pe ko 'etau lau ke 'ilo ki he mo'oni 'o e hisitolia pe
totonu ki Selusalema, pe feitu'u ne tau tupu mai mei ai .... (find
facts about history or anything for that matter), for example. (quote
again) "Ko e 'truth' 'oku ou tokanga atu ki ai (Objective
ontology)'oku ou faka'amu ke ke hila hake ki he mo'unga 'o
fakamatala'i ange 'a hono 'truth'...pea 'eke leva, "Ko e 'osi ee 'o e
'truth' fekau'aki mo e mo'unga?". 'I he maama 'o fehu'i ko eni,
ngalingali 'e 'ikai ma'u e 'truth' ki hemo'unga mei he Tohitapu -
fokotu'u atu ke tau kamata he google .... pea vakai kihe kau too kava
'i Kao & Tofua, pea Edmund Hilary .... pea tau toki vakai ki he
Tohitapu he Sapate ke kumi ivi ke toe hoko atu e lau tohi mo'unga?

Mo kataki ko e anga pee feinga ke tulitulimui he talanoa malie ki he
"truth", he 'oku hangee 'oku 'uhinga 'a Gide ia ki he truth kehe, ka e
'uhinga 'a Seni ia kihe truth kehe, pea mau kikivi atu mautolu mo e
"mo'oni" ia mei he kolo kehe.

Saikolone Taufa

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May 24, 2011, 5:56:05 PM5/24/11
to tasil...@googlegroups.com
Seni, malo 'aupito hono toe fakamaama ange 'ae point na'aku feinga atu kiai. 'Oku hanga 'e ho'o 'fakama'opo'opo na'e fai 'o toe fakamaama ange 'ae fault line of our human nature, 'aee koee 'oku ne toutou 'ai kitatuolu ketau feinga ma'u pe ke controll 'ae  me'a kotoa pe 'oku 'iai 'etau felave'i moia, 'o kau ai hotau 'Otuaa.  Koe level of hatred, war, violence, moe suffering 'i hotau mamani he taimi ni, ''oku fe'unga ia ketau 'ilo ai si'etau fehalaakii. Moe 'ofa moe lotu. Lone

ke...@post.com

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May 24, 2011, 7:01:48 PM5/24/11
to tasil...@googlegroups.com
 Ko kimoutolu pe foki tv mo ha'amou fakatonulea mo faka'uhinga...kae tuku 'a Gide ia kae vakai atu pe 'oku ke 'i fe? Ko Mee eni ne ke talamai te ke 'i heni ai. pahia e masi'i heni he toutou 'eke koe. Ko e ma'u'anga ivi foki mo ia 'e taha 'a ho'o vilovilo holo 'i LA na, he famili 'o e hoa, talamai 'e kitione.

toki afe mai 'okapau te ke ha'u 'o sio ki ho famili...eh!

'Oku 'ikai ko ha me'a eni ia 'oku toe ta'ota'ofi, ka 'oku 'i ai pe ha 'truth' 'oku fie talanoa ki ai, pea laku kotoa mai pe ia ki loto. Ko kimoutolu pe.


loke

__________________________________ 
"Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it."---Andre Gide (1869 - 1951)




 

----- Original Message -----

From: tv

Sent: 05/24/11 03:02 AM

To: Tasilisili-he-ngaluope

Subject: [tasilisili] Re: Andre Gide


 
Ko e "seeking" he tafa'aki 'e taha ke fakatokanga'i mo ia pe ko e fe 
'category' 'oku too ai. Ko e ha 'etau fakatonulea ki hee'tau toutou 
lotu, lau e tohitapu esetela esetela. Hange kuo tau ma'u mo 'ilo pe 
mo'oni ka tau kei kumi pe? >  loke 
> 
> __________________________________ 
>  "Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it."---Andre Gide (1869 - 1951) 
----------------------- 

Kataki Loke kau kaunoa atu. 

Ko 'eku hiki mai pee konga ho'o tasilisili 'i 'olunga ko 'eku pehee 
ngalingali 'oku hehema e fakafehu'i ni? Ko 'eku fakamahalo'i 'oku 
hangee 'oku pehee 'e he fehu'i ko 'eku lau pee tohitapu so many times, 
and perhaps pray so many times, pea ngali 'oku fe'unga 'aanoa ke ne 
pukepuke kita he hala ki he mo'oni (sustain me in truth?). 

Ko e mo'ui lau Tohitapu, mo e mo'ui lotu 'e ngali fe'unga ange keu 
pehee: ko e kumi ivi ke taliteke'i e fili moe 'ahi'ahi pea mo e 
ha'aha'a 'o e fononga'anga. Kapau ko e kumi 'mo'oni' 'o hangee ko e 
hu'u ho'o fehu'i 'i 'olunga pea 'oku tototnu ke ke toe 'ai ke mahino 
ange - ko e mo'oni ki he ha? The truth about what? He 'e ngali 'oku 
'aonga ange ha'aku lau e ngaahi tohi totonu ke ne veteange 'a e fifili 
ki he "mo'oni" 'o kapau 'e 'uluaki tali e fehu'i ko eni 'oku ou toki 
fokotu'u atu. 

Ko e toutou lau nai e Tohitapu ko e fekumi ki he 'Otua (who says he is 
the 'truth'), pe ko 'etau lau ke 'ilo ki he mo'oni 'o e hisitolia pe 
totonu ki Selusalema, pe feitu'u ne tau tupu mai mei ai .... (find 
facts about history or anything for that matter), for example. (quote 
again) "Ko e 'truth' 'oku ou tokanga atu ki ai (Objective 
ontology)'oku ou faka'amu ke ke hila hake ki he mo'unga 'o 
fakamatala'i ange 'a hono 'truth'...pea 'eke leva, "Ko e 'osi ee 'o e 
'truth' fekau'aki mo e mo'unga?". 'I he maama 'o fehu'i ko eni, 
ngalingali 'e 'ikai ma'u e 'truth' ki hemo'unga mei he Tohitapu - 
fokotu'u atu ke tau kamata he google .... pea vakai kihe kau too kava 
'i Kao & Tofua, pea Edmund Hilary .... pea tau toki vakai ki he 
Tohitapu he Sapate ke kumi ivi ke toe hoko atu e lau tohi mo'unga? 

Mo kataki ko e anga pee feinga ke tulitulimui he talanoa malie ki he 
"truth", he 'oku hangee 'oku 'uhinga 'a Gide ia ki he truth kehe, ka e 
'uhinga 'a Seni ia kihe truth kehe, pea mau kikivi atu mautolu mo e 
"mo'oni" ia mei he kolo kehe. 

-- 
'Oku tufa atu e email ni koe'uhi 'oku kau ho tu'asila he memipa 'i he "Tasilisili-he-ngaluope" 
Ko e tu'asila ke 'ave ki ai ha'o email ki he Tasilisili ko e tasil...@googlegroups.com 
Ke to'o ho tu'asila mei he memipa ki he Tasilisili, email ki he tasilisili-...@googlegroups.com 
Pea ko e website 'a e Tasilisili ko e http://groups.google.com/group/tasilisili

 

Kitione Tuitupou

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May 24, 2011, 10:36:49 PM5/24/11
to tasil...@googlegroups.com

From: "ke...@post.com" <ke...@post.com


 Ko kimoutolu pe foki tv mo ha'amou fakatonulea mo faka'uhinga...kae tuku 'a Gide ia kae vakai atu pe 'oku ke 'i fe? Ko Mee eni ne ke talamai te ke 'i heni ai. pahia e masi'i heni he toutou 'eke koe. Ko e ma'u'anga ivi foki mo ia 'e taha 'a ho'o vilovilo holo 'i LA na, he famili 'o e hoa, talamai 'e kitione.


toki afe mai 'okapau te ke ha'u 'o sio ki ho famili...eh!


loke
-------------
ongo tama,

'oku ou pehe 'e au na'e taha pe "mo'oni" na'a tau 'ilo kiai, 'a si'i Mo'oni 'Aholelei sevaniti talangofua pe, he he!

hange tama 'oku 'ikai ke mo fu'u kehekehe, he koe taimi 'oku ke 'i heni ai Loke pea ke takai holo he famili 'o e hoaa ka mau 'amanaki atu pe ki ha afe mai, he he!

ka faifai ange kuo mo afe mai ha kuonga kuo u kei mo'ui, pea ka ma'u ha mo faingamalie fakataha mahalo mo e fo'i e famili e hoa 'ia moua, pea mo ki'i afe mai he 'hala' ni, keu fai leva ha'a tau ki'i kalasi ki he fa'ahinga "mo'oni" laulotaha 'o hono fakafepaki'i fefeka e famili 'o e ngaahi hoaa, he he!

'oua te mo kata ka mo feinga mai kei taimi!!

Sam Pakofe

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May 25, 2011, 3:28:21 AM5/25/11
to tasil...@googlegroups.com
 Koe manatu melie 'eni kihe taimi ne kamata mai ai e Tasilisili he 2002 ,, ne mau ma'u 'inasi lelei 'aupito meihe kau Tauhitepile, kau Faifekau , kau ako tohitapu pea pehe kihe fe potalanoa lelei 'ihe feFakakohukohu'aki , moe tali e ngaahi fifli moe ngaahi fehu'i pea pehe kihe ngaahi fiema'u tokoni , ihe lesoni Fakauike moe ngaahi kaveinga kuo fokotu'u mai ke fai ai ha potalanoa..
 
 Koia, 'oku ou kole atu , kemou kataki kake 'omai ha Fakakohukohu pea ka oku fai atu hano lave'i ( fifili) pe fehu'i pea mou kataki 'o tali hake , he koe me'a ia oku 'aonga .. ka mou kataki 'oua e ta'e tali mai e ngaahi fifli, he oku fakamatatu'a ia..
 
kae hoko atu mu'a e potalanoa ...
 
sami.
 

Hunu Hunu

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May 25, 2011, 4:40:58 PM5/25/11
to tasil...@googlegroups.com
Malo e tokoni Sam......

2011/5/25 Sam Pakofe <pak...@yahoo.com.au>
--
'Oku tufa atu e email ni koe'uhi 'oku kau ho tu'asila he memipa 'i he "Tasilisili-he-ngaluope"
Ko e tu'asila ke 'ave ki ai ha'o email ki he Tasilisili ko e tasil...@googlegroups.com
Ke to'o ho tu'asila mei he memipa ki he Tasilisili, email ki he tasilisili-...@googlegroups.com
Pea ko e website 'a e Tasilisili ko e http://groups.google.com/group/tasilisili



--
hunuhunu

Timothy

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May 26, 2011, 8:10:54 AM5/26/11
to Tasilisili-he-ngaluope
Koe ki'i talanoa tu'a pe eni ia 'ae palesiteni 'o e Ashbury
Theological Seminary ko Maxie Dunnam fekau'aki mo 'ene kau atu kihe
fakataha konifelenisi 'ae 'evangelio 'a mamani 'aia na'e lahi ai 'ae
kau lea fekau'aki moe mahu'inga 'oe 'religious pluralism' pea moe
fiema'u ke fai ha alelea fakavaha'alotu (interreligious dialogue). Pea
lea ai moe tokolahi fekau'aki moe maumau lahi 'oku hoko 'ihe
fakamo'oni 'ae kau kalisitiane kihe ngaahi lotu kehe moe
fakatu'utamaki 'oe 'imperialism' 'ihe ngaahi siasi 'oku nau mamahi'i
'ae ngaue faka'evangelio. Koe fakamatala eni 'a Dunnam, “Mau fanongo
ko Sisu hotau fakamo'ui, ka 'oku 'ikai pehe koe fakamo'ui ia 'o e
kotoa e fa'ahinga 'oe tangata pea koe HALA kihe fakamo'ui 'ihe ngaahi
lotu kehe 'oku na totonu tatau pe moe HALA kihe fakamo'ui 'ihe lotu
fakakalisitiane." Pea toki tu'u hake ha pisope mei Pakisitani, koe
fonua 'oku tokosi'i fau ai 'ae kau kalisitiane pea 'oku nau fepaki moe
fakamamahi lahi koe'uhi ko 'enau tui, tu'u hake pe mo 'ene mafana mo e
fakapapau 'one me'a kihe fakataha, "Kapau koe mo'oni 'ae me'a kuo mou
lea'aki kotoa 'e kimoutolu, pea ta kuopau keu foki ki 'api 'o fakahoko
kihe kau kalisitiane 'i homau fonua 'oku 'ikai toe fiema'u ia kenau
toe mate ki he 'enau tui.”

'Oku ou tui koe fehu'i ia 'oku valid pea mahu'inga ke fai hano
talanga'i pe ko Sisu pe 'ae Hala kihe mo'ui ta'engata? 'o hange ko
hono talanga'i he ngaahi supiesi 'ihe paenga ni. Koe me'a koe 'oku
malie fekau'aki moe ngaahi lotu kehe 'oku 'ikai ha taha ia honau kau
taki tene 'claim' koe 'Otua ia. Hala hanau taha 'oku 'iai hanau 'Otua
ne hifo ki mamani ke 'a'ahi kihe famili 'oe fa'ahinga e tangata 'ihe
'ene 'ai kakano 'o hoko 'o tangata koe'uhi ke pekia ma'a kinautolu ko
honau huhu'i pea ke toetu'u mei he pekia. Katoa e ngaahi me'a ni ko
Sisu tokotaha pe mo 'ene kau muimui 'oku nau 'claim'. He 'oku pehe 'e
Pita, “'Io, pea 'oku 'ikai ke tu'u 'iha taha kehe 'ae fakamo'ui; he
tala'ehai 'oku 'iai moha hingoa kehe 'ihe lalo langi, kuo fokotu'u
'ihe lotolotonga 'oe kakai, 'aia kuo tu'utu'uni ketau mo'ui ai” (Ngaue
4:12). Te tau tui nai kihe folofola 'ae Tohitapu pe ko 'etau muimui
kihe ngaahi tokateline fakapoto 'oe totonu fakapolitikale (politically
correct) hotau ngaahi 'aho? Toki fai mai pe 'e koe ha'o tali
fakafo'ituitui ka kiate au teu tui au kihe lau 'ae folofola ......
'Ofa atu moe Lotu Timothy

Sione M. Veituna

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May 27, 2011, 2:02:47 AM5/27/11
to tasil...@googlegroups.com
Tim,

it is Asbury not Ashbury; the seminary was named after Francis Asbury, whom John Wesley commissioned to take the Gospel to America. He and Thomas Coke were considered to be the father founders of American Methodism. Maxie Dunnam, is one of the foremost evangelical American Methodists I know, alongside Thomas Oden, Leonard Sweet and Ben Whitterington

smv
From: Timothy <tla...@hotmail.com>
To: Tasilisili-he-ngaluope <tasil...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 12:10:54 AM
Subject: [tasilisili] Re: Tau fe- fakakohukohu'aki mu'a

Sam Pakofe

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May 27, 2011, 3:27:06 AM5/27/11
to tasil...@googlegroups.com
malie e potalanoa Ma'anga mo Tim ... ifo e laulau hange pe 'oku fakasuka 'eku ipu tea ..
 
sami.

From: Sione M. Veituna <svei...@yahoo.com>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, 27 May, 2011 4:02:47 PM
Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Tau fe- fakakohukohu'aki mu'a

Sam Pakofe

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May 27, 2011, 3:38:54 AM5/27/11
to tasil...@googlegroups.com
 Koe feima'u tokoni 'eni ia , fekau moe anga 'o'ertau tauhi 'Otua ihe tukunga Fakatonga ..
 
Kuou Fakatoknga'ii 'ae To kehekehe 'oe taimi kuo fai ai e Fakatapu ( fetapa) , ihe ngaahi Katoanga Lotu, 'o tatau aipe pe koha teu ke fai ha malanga pe ha LOtu.. 'oku ongo kehekeh 'ae ngaahi fetapa ihe hono fai 'i falelotu mohano fai iha fietu'u kehe , hange ko'eni.
 
Oku Ngaue'aki 'ehe Kau faifekau e Fakatapu ko'eni :
 
1. Tuku keu Fakatapu  atu mu'a kihe 'Otua "Ta'ehamai "/ Kihe 'Otua 'oku Ta'eha mai
 
Koe fifili leva ko fe'ia leva e 'Otua Ha Mai ?

 

2. Tuku keu Fakatpu kihe 'Afio 'ae 'Otua ihotau Lotolotonga .

 

3. Tuku keu Fakatapu kihe 'enau Afifio , 'oku nau 'Afio iho tau lotolotonga ..

  hange 'oku 3 e kau "Otua heni ?

 
4. Tu keu FakataPu kihe 'afio 'ae Laumalie ma'o'oni iho tau Lotolotonga .
 
5 . Tuku keu Fakatapu kihe 'Afio 'ae 'Otua koe Luamalie Ma'oni'oni 'iho tau Lotolotonga .
 
kau tangata, 'oku hange kiate au, 'oku ongo fakaoli e Fakatapu hono 1 moe 3 .. pe koe anga pe ia 'eku lau ..
 
 Ka koe 'uhi, he kapau 'oku 'iai ha fehalaaki pea 'oku tonu ia ke fakatonutonu....
 
koe anga pe foki e vakai ..
sami.
 

Sione M. Veituna

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May 27, 2011, 6:41:23 AM5/27/11
to tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sam,
it is Ma'ananga not Ma'anga, please reduce the sugar from your ma'anga tea, ha ha ha ha

smv

From: Sam Pakofe <pak...@yahoo.com.au>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, May 27, 2011 7:27:06 PM

Faka'osi Maama

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May 27, 2011, 11:33:14 AM5/27/11
to tasil...@googlegroups.com
Kou talaange, ko Tonga ko e fonua uesiliana (Toloa) 'o hange ko Kolomotu'a mo Hihifo, pehe mai e leka teunga kula ia he 'emau tali pasi, teu feinga au ki Ma'ananga 'o 'ai ha'aku fu'u ma'anga he 'oku toe si'i ma'u pe...

2011/5/27 Sione M. Veituna <svei...@yahoo.com>

fusi mapuhoi a tevolo

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May 27, 2011, 2:38:50 PM5/27/11
to tasilisili Tasilisili-he-ngaluope
Sam,
it is Ma'ananga not Ma'anga, please reduce the sugar from your ma'anga tea, ha ha ha ha

smv
>>>>>>>>>
 
Faifekau, Sione Ma'ananga Vietuna.... Kuo ha koaa e vaka 'a 'Euaa?
 
'Oku totonu pe ke 'iai ha'amo ki'i tohi mo Takamuli... fakamalo mo update mai e ngaue, ki he kakai...!!!
 
pulapula ee...
 
mapuhoi 'a tevolo.

seni taniela

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May 27, 2011, 3:23:35 PM5/27/11
to tasil...@googlegroups.com
Kapau
 On Tue, 24/5/11, tv <ti.va...@gmail.com> wrote:
Ko e toutou lau nai e Tohitapu ko e fekumi ki he 'Otua (who says he is
the 'truth'), pe ko 'etau lau ke 'ilo ki he mo'oni 'o e hisitolia pe
totonu ki Selusalema, pe feitu'u ne tau tupu mai mei ai .... (find
facts about history or anything for that matter), for example. (quote
again) "Ko e 'truth' 'oku ou tokanga atu ki ai (Objective
ontology)'oku ou faka'amu ke ke hila hake ki he mo'unga 'o
fakamatala'i ange 'a hono 'truth'...pea 'eke leva, "Ko e 'osi ee 'o e
'truth' fekau'aki mo e mo'unga?". '=============================================================================
Malo Loke pea malo tv e tanumaki mai, kamata ke ha'u e ninimo!!!!
 
Kapau ko e truth ena 'oku 'uhinga ki ai 'a Gide ko e objective ontology.  I assume he refers to the "truth about whatever there is" pee ko e mo'oni fekau'aki mo e me'a kotoa pee 'oku 'i ai 'i he univeesii (visible and invisible), pea teu pehee ko e fo'i 'aliaki maumautaimi mo ta'e'aonga 'a Gide 'aki e ngaahi 'uhinga ko 'eni.  'Uluaki, 'oku te'eki ke 'iai ha taha ia, ako pe ta'eako, kuo ne tala kuo ne 'ilo e me'a kotoa pee he univeesii. 
 
Ko e latest information about our universe, we discover only about 4 percent of the universe.  Ko e me'a kotoa  koee 'oku fa'u'aki koe mo au mo 'eta komipiutaa mo e ngaahi palanite oku tau a'u ki aii...it's only about 4 percent.  Ko e peseti 'e 23 'oku nau ui ia ko e dark matter, ko e koto misiteli ia ki he'enau vakaii.  Pea toe 'iai mo e me'a 'oku nau ui ko e dark energy oku fakafuofua oku peseti 73 'oku kilukiliua ke fai ha a'u ki ai.  Ko hono 'ai 'e tahaa, 'oku tau 'ilo pee ki he peseti e 4 'o e katoa 'o e me'a 'oku totonu ke 'ilo. We know only about four percent of reality.   Kei toe peseti 96 'oku 'te'eki ai ke a'u ki ai 'a ha'a tangata.
 
Ua, kapau 'oku 'uhinga 'a Gide ki he Mo'onii(the truth) ko e mo'oni kotoa fekau'aki mo e 'Otuaa.  Teu pehee 'oku toe hala pee 'ene fo'i' akonaki fakapoto, he 'oku te'eki ke 'iai ha taha ia tene 'ilo pe taukave'i kuo ne katoi 'a e mo'oni fekau'aki mo e 'Otuaa.  He 'oku 'ange'ange 'a e peseti pee 'e 4 e 'univeesii, kae mahalo 'oku haafe peseti pee 'a e 'Otuaa kuo tau 'ilo.
 
Tolu, Kapau leva 'oku uhinga 'a Gide ko e mo'onii(the truth) ko e me'akotoa pee 'oku totonu ke tau 'ilo fekau'akii mo e 'Otuaa pe ko e 'univeesii(visible and invisible), 'oku ou tui 'oku hala mo fakamole taimi 'e ne fo'i statement because no one ever claim to know everything about God or the universe.  No one ever attempt to seek all the truths or the truth about whatever there is in the universe including God.
 
Ko e mo'oni koee  te tau ui ko e Mo'onii pee ko e the truth/ the true truth i hono ui 'e Francis Schaeffer ko e mo'oni 'oku theological pea toki makatu'unga ai e ontological.  'Aia ko e pehee 'e Sisu ko au ko e Mo'oni...taa ko e Mo'onii ko e Fakahaaa mai 'e he Otuaa Ia (the self-expression of God). pea ko e haa pe me'a 'oku hoamalie(consistent) mo e fakakaukau, finangalo,naunau, kololia, mo e uho 'o e 'Otuaa ko Mo'oni ia. 
 
Ko e pehee 'e Sisu Ko au pee ko e Mo'oni, 'oku ou tui Jesus includes propositional truths i.e whatever He says is true etc.  Ka 'oku toe 'ia e me'a mahu'inga 'e taha--truth is also relational--truth has to be defined in the boundary of relating to Him.  Seek the Person (Jesus), get intimate with Him, ask Him to reveal Himself to us on corporate and personal level and to guide us in our search for Him.  'Oku 'ikai ko e feinga pee ke tau illo fekau'aki mo ia, but also to know Him as a Person. 
 
ka tau nofo hifo o kumi ki he mo'oni as a set of information about God and the universe, we are really stupid because we are seeking the impossible, but if we seek Truth incarnate, we will be humbled, become wise, and enticed to worship.
 
Uhinga lelei ke tau 'ilo e Mo'onii for He reveals Himself and He knows the rest of the 96 % of reality which we don't know.  When we get to other side of the river, He will let us know whatever there is about Himself and the universe which he created if ever we can comprehend truth as information
 
Te tau foki leva ki he fehu'i, how do we know that Christianity is true and how do we know that  we know the truth?  Tau ako mei he Christian epistemology ko e me'angaue 'e tolu 'oku tau ngaue 'aki ke tau 'ilo ai e mo'onii, 1) we use our senses/empricism(i.e scientific); 2) we use reason(Christianity is very rational--i.e philosophical); 3) we receive revelation(God reveals himself)--i.e theological. 
 
 'Oku 'ikai ha lotu he mamanii 'e mali lotolelei ai e theology, philosophy, mo e science 'o laka hake he lotu fakakalisitianee pea ko e taha ia e 'uhinga ne fakalaka ai sivilaise 'o e uesitee ko e tokoni 'a e Kalisitianee--they found the truth, the only true truth, and that Truth is the source of all truths--ko Sisu. 
 

>
> __________________________________
>  "Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it."---Andre Gide (1869 - 1951)
-----------------------

Ko e mo'ui lau Tohitapu, mo e mo'ui lotu 'e ngali fe'unga ange keu
pehee: ko e kumi ivi ke taliteke'i e fili moe 'ahi'ahi pea mo e
ha'aha'a 'o e fononga'anga. Kapau ko e kumi 'mo'oni' 'o hangee ko e
hu'u ho'o fehu'i 'i 'olunga pea 'oku tototnu ke ke toe 'ai ke mahino
ange - ko e mo'oni ki he ha? The truth about what? He 'e ngali 'oku
'aonga ange ha'aku lau e ngaahi tohi totonu ke ne veteange 'a e fifili
ki he "mo'oni" 'o kapau 'e 'uluaki tali e fehu'i ko eni 'oku ou toki
fokotu'u atu.

Ko e toutou lau nai e Tohitapu ko e fekumi ki he 'Otua (who says he is
the 'truth'), pe ko 'etau lau ke 'ilo ki he mo'oni 'o e hisitolia pe
totonu ki Selusalema, pe feitu'u ne tau tupu mai mei ai .... (find
facts about history or anything for that matter), for example. (quote
again) "Ko e 'truth' 'oku ou tokanga atu ki ai (Objective
ontology)'oku ou faka'amu ke ke hila hake ki he mo'unga 'o
fakamatala'i ange 'a hono 'truth'...pea 'eke leva, "Ko e 'osi ee 'o e
'truth' fekau'aki mo e mo'unga?". 'I he maama 'o fehu'i ko eni,
ngalingali 'e 'ikai ma'u e 'truth' ki hemo'unga mei he Tohitapu -
fokotu'u atu ke tau kamata he google .... pea vakai kihe kau too kava
'i Kao & Tofua, pea Edmund Hilary .... pea tau toki vakai ki he
Tohitapu he Sapate ke kumi ivi ke toe hoko atu e lau tohi mo'unga?

Mo kataki ko e anga pee feinga ke tulitulimui he talanoa malie ki he
"truth", he 'oku hangee 'oku 'uhinga 'a Gide ia ki he truth kehe, ka e
'uhinga 'a Seni ia kihe truth kehe, pea mau kikivi atu mautolu mo e
"mo'oni" ia mei he kolo kehe.

Sione M. Veituna

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May 27, 2011, 4:09:48 PM5/27/11
to tasil...@googlegroups.com

Mapu,
it is Veituna not Vietuna, si'i ee, ko e ha koaa kuo mou pehee ai, (lols) Mapu ngali lahi ho'o mou fakfekiki Tohitapu, kuo ikai ke mou kei lava o sipela fakaTonga, ha ha ha ha,,,

VakaEua??? Mapu ta kia Misi Niua ke ne oatu e fakamatala ko ia, he ko ia ne mou koniseti ee, ikai ko ia??? (ha ha haha),

te u toki fakamatala atu au kapau te u takai atu hena mo Bainimarama o fai ha ki'i konisenit ke kumi 'aki ha'a mau navy boat ke malu'i aki homau potu tahi mei he fa'a moulu mai e kau leka navy mei Tonga o fakaaoao ai, . he he he he he

vinaka
smv

From: fusi mapuhoi a tevolo <afu...@hotmail.com>
To: tasilisili Tasilisili-he-ngaluope <tasil...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, May 28, 2011 6:38:50 AM
Subject: RE: [tasilisili] Re: Tau fe- fakakohukohu'aki mu'a

Sione M. Veituna

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May 27, 2011, 4:24:49 PM5/27/11
to tasil...@googlegroups.com
Faka'osi,
tali pasi ena i fee? he he he he he,
ko e kau Uesiliana oku nau 'ilo e 'uhinga 'o e Ma'ananga, ko e kau ta'e-Uesiliana pe 'oku 'ikai mahino kiate kinautolu e 'uhinga e lea, mo fa'a sipela hala'i (he he he he), tonu ke liliu ho hingoa mei he Faka'osi Maama ki he Kamata Maama, mo ho'o fa'a hū ta'e-maama holo he 'etau fakakohukohu  (mhk),

smv
From: Faka'osi Maama <faka...@gmail.com>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, May 28, 2011 3:33:14 AM

ke...@post.com

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May 27, 2011, 5:09:35 PM5/27/11
to tasil...@googlegroups.com
seni:

> Malo Loke pea malo tv e tanumaki mai, kamata ke ha'u e ninimo!!!!

---

'Oku ou fakamalo atu mo au seni mo tv he fakakohukohu kuo fai mai. Fakamafana mo fakafiefia lahi ia! Te u afe atu, tu'u hoko pe talanoa mo au 'ia Gide ke toki hoko atu ha taimi ange. Kae hokohoko atu pe e ng. fakakohukohu ia.

 
malo mo e 'ofa,
loke

Sepesi H Piukala

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May 27, 2011, 9:20:14 PM5/27/11
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Sami teke malanga óku ke ái fakatapu ai ? kuo íkai teke tali e Pulupuluátutua á Ikalahi kemou ngaue áki mei homou feituú.? Óku ou kehe au Sami ka hoko ha meá heni , kuo pau keu muáki fakatapu au ki he Kovana Seniale,fakafofonga ó e Kuini Pilitania í Áositeleia ni ,pehe ki he kakai ó e fonua ni kau ai moe Pacific High Way pea é toki hoko ai á Houéiki ia kapau ko ha katoanga mavahe mei he ngahi houa malanga mauánga kelesi. Ngahi houa malanga, hufanga pe kita he fakatapu he ko hotau ngahi Falelotu kuo fonu he ngahi fakatapu lelei ange, tukukehe pe kapau óku áfio ai áe tuí ó Tonga pe ko ha Houéiki Nopele, talami é Taitoo , Vilimo ee .
 
Vakai atu hoómou ngahi fuú kiliíákau mo Lief mo Mapu, he kanau ka ílo hoó ómi fifili ki heni kae íkai fehuí ange kiate kinautolu é fiu fakavetevete hoomou pakipaki
 
ófa atu.
 
Sepesi.
----------
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Sepesi H. Piukala
Ph: +61401 590 917
 
Exodus 2:6 Then he said, "I am the God of your Father, the God of Abraham, the God of Issac and the God of Jacob."
*****************************************************************************************************************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: tasil...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tasil...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Sam Pakofe
Sent: Friday, 27 May 2011 5:39 PM
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Tau fe- fakakohukohu'aki mu'a

--

Sam Pakofe

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May 30, 2011, 3:48:21 AM5/30/11
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Veituna , kataki koe 'atunga ia e fakavave, na'a ma'u mai e lau tasilisili ee...
 
'ofa atu ...
 
sami.

From: Sione M. Veituna <svei...@yahoo.com>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, 27 May, 2011 8:41:23 PM

Sione M. Veituna

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May 30, 2011, 4:02:27 AM5/30/11
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he he he he, i get it.. ko e anga pe tuli e hua ke malie... ha ha ha


Sent: Mon, May 30, 2011 7:48:21 PM

Subject: Re: [tasilisili] Re: Tau fe- fakakohukohu'aki mu'a

Sam Pakofe

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May 30, 2011, 4:03:00 AM5/30/11
to tasil...@googlegroups.com
Malo Takamuli,  'oku 'ikai koe 'ai ke malanga, koe feinga pe kihe akoako " fetapa ' ..hahahaaa.
 
mahalo 'e saiange pe 'eku kei fsio mo fanongo hake atu mei lotofale, kamou kei fai mai pe hotau Malanga 'i ha'aku kake hake ....hahahaaa.
sami.

From: Sepesi H Piukala <sep...@optusnet.com.au>
To: tasil...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, 28 May, 2011 11:20:14 AM
Subject: RE: [tasilisili] Re: Tau fe- fakakohukohu'aki mu'a

penisimani mone

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May 30, 2011, 8:52:09 PM5/30/11
to tasil...@googlegroups.com
Kau atu pe, Seni, Loke mo kimoutolu 'oku fakakohukohu 'i he paenga ni, fiefia lahi 'i ho'omou lukuluku 'oku faii pea tau ako kotoa pe mei ai...mahino, nounou fe'unga, poini pea faa 'ataa e aleaa...poupou'aki ia 'etau tui ko Sisu pe 'a e hala, mo'oni mo e mo'ui...mahalo ko e toe pe eni ia keu fou ai, tui ki ai mo mo'ui ai ee...malo mo e 'omi ai ho'omou ngaahi a'usia, ako, lautohi, tui, ke fakanounou ha'aku toe fekumi mo lautohi atu...mo e 'ofa aipe..

2011/5/27 <ke...@post.com>
--
'Oku tufa atu e email ni koe'uhi 'oku kau ho tu'asila he memipa 'i he "Tasilisili-he-ngaluope"
Ko e tu'asila ke 'ave ki ai ha'o email ki he Tasilisili ko e tasil...@googlegroups.com
Ke to'o ho tu'asila mei he memipa ki he Tasilisili, email ki he tasilisili-...@googlegroups.com
Pea ko e website 'a e Tasilisili ko e http://groups.google.com/group/tasilisili



--
fakapulia

Timothy

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May 30, 2011, 9:29:46 PM5/30/11
to Tasilisili-he-ngaluope
Malo Ma'ananga 'oku tonu ho sipela 'au he'eku taipe 'a'aku. 'Io koe
palesiteni 'oe Asbury Theological Seminary. Malo e fakatonutonu mai.
'Ofa atu moe lotu Timothy
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