A consequence of drug prohibition: violent street gangs in Cranston
Mike
Cranston steps up effort to address gang violence
07:36 AM EDT on Monday, July 27, 2009
By W. Zachary Malinowski
The Providence Journal / Bob Thayer
CRANSTON � The ongoing battles between violent street gangs such as the
Young Bloods, Hanover Boyz, Asian Outlaw Boyz, MS-13 and Providence
Street Boys know no boundaries.
Related links
It�s no secret that most of the state�s 1,400 gang members are scattered
across several Providence neighborhoods in the West End, Smith Hill and
South Side, but there is a growing number of them living in Woonsocket,
Pawtucket, Central Falls and Cranston.
More gang members mean more problems. And Cranston has had more than its
share in recent months.
Mayor Allan W. Fung and his newly appointed police chief, Col. Marco
Palombo Jr., acknowledge there are about 100 gang members in their city
of 80,000 that borders the West End and South Side of Providence. Last
week, they vowed to aggressively address the escalating problem.
�I want to make sure that there is not an explosion of this issue in our
city,� said Fung, a former assistant state attorney general who
prosecuted youth crime and gang members. �We are trying to stay on top
of it.�
Palombo has assigned a detective, Warren Henseler, to exclusively deal
with gang violence and he is considering having another officer work
alongside him.
�There have been drive-by shootings, shootings, threats and intimidation.�
Much of the violence is concentrated in the city�s Arlington
neighborhood, which is less than a mile from the home of established
Providence gangs like the Young Bloods and Hanover Boyz on Hanover
Street, Althea Street, Linwood and Potters avenues in the West End.
The police said that most of the known gang members are found in
Arlington, but others live in the Auburn and Edgewood neighborhoods.
Meanwhile, violence sometimes breaks out at different venues in
Cranston, such as the AMF Cranston Lanes on Elmwood Avenue, where gang
members bowl and hang out.
Two years ago, Kasean Benton, 19, of Providence�s Elmwood section, who
was slain July 12 in South Providence in a gang-related feud, was
stabbed at the bowling alley, the police said.
Since Jan. 1, Providence has had one homicide and 13 people wounded in
gang-related shootings, while, in Cranston, 4 people have been shot
through gang warfare.
The highest profile shooting in Cranston took place at midday on May 19
at New England Sports Barber Shop on Cranston Street, just a stone�s
throw from the Cranston police station and the Providence border. The
police said a gunman fired 12 shots and struck a customer and Wilder
�Waldo� Flores, a barber and former member of the Original Crip Gang.
Investigators suspect that the MS-13 gang is responsible for the
shooting, although no one has been arrested.
Other notable shootings or incidents involving guns in Cranston:
�July 11: At 2:44 a.m., a silver minivan pulled up and someone opened
fire on 20 members of the Hanover Boyz and Providence Street Boys
outside the 7-Eleven convenience store at 535 Reservoir Ave. None of the
shots struck anyone. The police said they suspect the shooters were
members of the Young Bloods or Oriental Rascals. Earlier in the night,
several Providence Street Boys got into a dispute with some Oriental
Rascals at a Providence nightclub.
�May 27: An 18-year-old member of the Asian Outlaw Boyz was shot off
Webster Avenue. Two juveniles, who are members of the Dark Side Rascals,
were arrested and charged.
�March 20: The home of one of the Hanover Boyz on Bailey Street was
sprayed with gunfire at 12:37 a.m. No one was wounded, but five shell
casings were found in the neighborhood. The police are certain the
shooter was a member of the Young Bloods, but they have yet to charge
anyone.
�Jan. 21: A 17-year-old who lives on Stayton Street and hangs out with
members of the Manton Posse in Providence was arrested for having three
guns in his possession.
�Jan. 10: A 15-year-old boy linked to the Members of Pine, also known as
M.O.P., was shot in the leg during an exchange of gunfire between
members of M.O.P. and C-Block near 432 Union Ave. The neighborhood
straddles Cranston and the Silver Lake section of Providence.
...
PetiteCapri
> http://www.projo.com/news/content/SUBURBAN_GANGS_07-27-09_DAF0D4L_v24...
>
> Cranston steps up effort to address gang violence
> 07:36 AM EDT on Monday, July 27, 2009
> By W. Zachary Malinowski
> The Providence Journal / Bob Thayer
>
> Young Bloods, Hanover Boyz, Asian Outlaw Boyz, MS-13 and Providence
> Street Boys know no boundaries.
> Related links
>
> across several Providence neighborhoods in the West End, Smith Hill and
> South Side, but there is a growing number of them living in Woonsocket,
> Pawtucket, Central Falls and Cranston.
>
> More gang members mean more problems. And Cranston has had more than its
> share in recent months.
>
> Mayor Allan W. Fung and his newly appointed police chief, Col. Marco
> Palombo Jr., acknowledge there are about 100 gang members in their city
> of 80,000 that borders the West End and South Side of Providence. Last
> week, they vowed to aggressively address the escalating problem.
>
> city,” said Fung, a former assistant state attorney general who
> prosecuted youth crime and gang members. “We are trying to stay on top
> of it.”
>
> Palombo has assigned a detective, Warren Henseler, to exclusively deal
> with gang violence and he is considering having another officer work
> alongside him.
>
>
> Much of the violence is concentrated in the city’s Arlington
> neighborhood, which is less than a mile from the home of established
> Providence gangs like the Young Bloods and Hanover Boyz on Hanover
> Street, Althea Street, Linwood and Potters avenues in the West End.
>
> The police said that most of the known gang members are found in
> Arlington, but others live in the Auburn and Edgewood neighborhoods.
> Meanwhile, violence sometimes breaks out at different venues in
> Cranston, such as the AMF Cranston Lanes on Elmwood Avenue, where gang
> members bowl and hang out.
>
> was slain July 12 in South Providence in a gang-related feud, was
> stabbed at the bowling alley, the police said.
>
> Since Jan. 1, Providence has had one homicide and 13 people wounded in
> gang-related shootings, while, in Cranston, 4 people have been shot
> through gang warfare.
>
> The highest profile shooting in Cranston took place at midday on May 19
> throw from the Cranston police station and the Providence border. The
> police said a gunman fired 12 shots and struck a customer and Wilder
> Investigators suspect that the MS-13 gang is responsible for the
> shooting, although no one has been arrested.
>
> Other notable shootings or incidents involving guns in Cranston:
>
> fire on 20 members of the Hanover Boyz and Providence Street Boys
> outside the 7-Eleven convenience store at 535 Reservoir Ave. None of the
> shots struck anyone. The police said they suspect the shooters were
> members of the Young Bloods or Oriental Rascals. Earlier in the night,
> several Providence Street Boys got into a dispute with some Oriental
> Rascals at a Providence nightclub.
>
> Webster Avenue. Two juveniles, who are members of the Dark Side Rascals,
> were arrested and charged.
>
> sprayed with gunfire at 12:37 a.m. No one was wounded, but five shell
> casings were found in the neighborhood. The police are certain the
> shooter was a member of the Young Bloods, but they have yet to charge
> anyone.
>
> members of the Manton Posse in Providence was arrested for having three
> guns in his possession.
>
> M.O.P., was shot in the leg during an exchange of gunfire between
> members of M.O.P. and C-Block near 432 Union Ave. The neighborhood
> straddles Cranston and the Silver Lake section of Providence.
> ...
My mind can't even wrap around this nonsense. Round them up , jail
them, who cares, it's money well spent to get them off the street til
they are grown. And some of you people want to add legal pot to this
shit? helllll no... thats all they need is a damn revenue stream to
fund their fueds with. This is worse than hillbilles.
Mike
> My mind can't even wrap around this nonsense. Round them up , jail
> them, who cares, it's money well spent to get them off the street til
> they are grown.
Prison is a good *short*-term solution, and we've been doing it now for
decades. Are street gangs getting weaker? Or stronger?
When should we start thinking about *long*-term solutions?
> And some of you people want to add legal pot to this shit? helllll
> no... thats all they need is a damn revenue stream to fund their
> fueds with. This is worse than hillbilles.
You've got it backwards, Petite, legal pot would take money AWAY from
street gangs.
Laury
"Mike" <mi...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:h4ljgq$raf$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
If they all smoked a little pot, they wouldn't actually feel like shooting
anybody. Or doing anything much, except maybe getting something to eat.
Laury
Boyle M. Owl
> If they all smoked a little pot, they wouldn't actually feel like
> shooting anybody. Or doing anything much, except maybe getting something
> to eat.
THIS.
Petit Capri's argument that legal pot will add to the gangs' revenue
stream is denying reality. The reality is that since pot is illegal,
its artificial scarcity raises its price and the profit margins the
gangs are able to charge. This is worth fighting over to the gangs.
By the way, I have a friend who is the victim of the West Side asian
gangs - his brother in law was shot to death for being out on his stoop
drinking beer with buddies. The sooner we remove the profit out of
illicit drugs the better.
--
BMO
The button on Slashdot says "moderate" but I thought I'd be excessive.
PetiteCapri
> "Mike" <m...@nospam.com> wrote in message
Is that all you do when you're stoned? Sit around and watch the boob
tube? No, you do stupid shit like sprinkle pot on people's pizzas and
toilet paper your neighbor and lane drift while driving.
If you think legal pot will lower gang revenue.. get real.
So, basically, slomo adults would get it from their docs,but the gang
members STILL make their money selling it on the street to teens,
just like they do now. Duh. Oh, and it makes it SOOO much easier for
gang members to obtain in the first place... and it also makes it much
harder to prosecute them when needed.
It's not a good idea, no matter how much you 60s hippies want to think
so.
PetiteCapri
I guess we should legalize all the guns too.. so the big drug lords
lose that revenue stream! If everyone had access to guns, no one
would ever get hurt, right?
I mean, that's YOUR argument in a nutshell. Give free access and all
the trouble goes away... except that doesnt make any sense!
You would have it the other way? PRO WEED and ANTI-GUN? Sounds like
the 1960s all over again... I mean, Wow, a hippie love-in peace-fest
right there in Providence. the Boyz in the hood will love that.
HA!
You have no clue what makes these kids tick... take the drugs off the
streets, take the guns off the streets... illegalize guns, legalize
drugs, Whatever! Because you know what? You still have uneducated
kids with no guidance, no parents, no money, no moral compass, no
opportunities, no maturity.... and there will still be gangs and
tragedy... But, instead, we'll have more of it... not less.
Do you see a contradiction in that?
PetiteCapri
Mike, I cannot agree with that. It will make it easier for gangs to
access the drugs and they will just have more to sell... the price is
a matter of volume. Teens are still going to need to buy it on the
street, legal or not. Only, it would be much easier.
Boyle M. Owl
> Do you see a contradiction in that?
I don't even know what your argument actually is. Please construct one
using English. Thank you.
--
BMO
Nice boy, but about as sharp as a sack of wet mice.
- Foghorn Leghorn
Boyle M. Owl
> the price is a matter of volume.
Please crack open your macroeconomics textbook. Thank you.
--
BMO
Education and religion are two things not regulated by supply and
demand. The less of either the people have, the less they want.
- Charlotte Observer, 1897
Mark T.B. Carroll
> I guess we should legalize all the guns too.. so the big drug lords
> lose that revenue stream! If everyone had access to guns, no one
> would ever get hurt, right?
Well, criminals have access to guns either way. Remarkably much gun
violence is between gangs - statistics saying people are shot by people
they know, etc., actually tend to be rival gang members and suchlike.
(snip)
> You have no clue what makes these kids tick... take the drugs off the
> streets, take the guns off the streets... illegalize guns, legalize
> drugs, Whatever! Because you know what? You still have uneducated
> kids with no guidance, no parents, no money, no moral compass, no
> opportunities, no maturity.... and there will still be gangs and
> tragedy... But, instead, we'll have more of it... not less.
Even after significantly impacting gangs' financial incentive to
persuade these kids to become members? With a gang influence in the
family it can be very hard for kids who do want to do well in school to
actually get to do that, given that gangs needs new recruits to maintain
the influence and operations that give them power through their black
market activity.
It's actually not all that dissimilar to the not-unconnected analogy of
why the Taliban use opium to make money even though they're actually
ideologically opposed to it. With less money, gangs have less power.
Also note that the drugs and the guns aren't unconnected: the guns are
needed to protect drug shipments and drug-selling turf, and both benefit
from the same smuggling infrastructure. In short: the profit from drugs
helps to make the effort that goes into illicit firearms worthwhile.
Obviously drug legalization wouldn't solve everything. I'm curious about
your argument for `more of it' though.
Mark
Mark T.B. Carroll
> If you think legal pot will lower gang revenue.. get real. So,
> basically, slomo adults would get it from their docs,but the gang
> members STILL make their money selling it on the street to teens, just
> like they do now.
Do they make much money now selling alcohol to teens? Why the
difference?
> Duh. Oh, and it makes it SOOO much easier for gang members to obtain
> in the first place...
I'm not sure it could get a whole lot more easy. You just need warmth
and light to grow it.
> and it also makes it much harder to prosecute them when needed.
Why? They're unlicensed vendors, for a start, so they don't have an
excuse for large stocks, and you can also catch them in underage sales
the same ways we do for things like cigarettes now. Unless you think we
catch most dealers now simply on possession without intent to
distribute.
Mark
Laury
"PetiteCapri" <bhbel...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:36c7b353-c535-4a4d...@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 27, 9:21 pm, "Laury" <la...@coxxx.net> wrote:
> "Mike" <m...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>
> news:h4ljgq$raf$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
> > PetiteCapri wrote:
> >> My mind can't even wrap around this nonsense. Round them up , jail
> >> them, who cares, it's money well spent to get them off the street til
> >> they are grown.
>
> > Prison is a good *short*-term solution, and we've been doing it now for
> > decades. Are street gangs getting weaker? Or stronger?
>
> > When should we start thinking about *long*-term solutions?
>
> >> And some of you people want to add legal pot to this shit? helllll
> >> no... thats all they need is a damn revenue stream to fund their
> >> fueds with. This is worse than hillbilles.
>
> > You've got it backwards, Petite, legal pot would take money AWAY from
> > street gangs.
>
> If they all smoked a little pot, they wouldn't actually feel like shooting
> anybody. Or doing anything much, except maybe getting something to eat.
>
> Laury
Is that all you do when you're stoned? Sit around and watch the boob
tube? No, you do stupid shit like sprinkle pot on people's pizzas and
toilet paper your neighbor and lane drift while driving.
-------------------------------
No, you have your drugs confused. You are talking about alcohol, which is
legal, of course.
-------------------------------------------
If you think legal pot will lower gang revenue.. get real.
--------------------------------------
Of course it will! They won't be able to make money off it's sale.
--------------------------------------
So, basically, slomo adults would get it from their docs,but the gang
members STILL make their money selling it on the street to teens,
just like they do now. Duh. Oh, and it makes it SOOO much easier for
gang members to obtain in the first place... and it also makes it much
harder to prosecute them when needed.
It's not a good idea, no matter how much you 60s hippies want to think
so.
---------------------------------------
Duh! I was a baby in the 60s, not a hippy. But at least I know hippies would
never have TP'd anyone's tree or sprayed cleaner over anyone's
greaseburgers. They were about peace and love, and the drug they used was
marijuana, which mellows you out, not fires you up. Peace.
Laury
Mark T.B. Carroll
> Duh! I was a baby in the 60s, not a hippy. But at least I know hippies would
> never have TP'd anyone's tree or sprayed cleaner over anyone's
> greaseburgers. They were about peace and love, and the drug they used was
> marijuana, which mellows you out, not fires you up. Peace.
I must admit, I was having difficult connecting spraying cleaning fluid
on burgers with the memory I have of stoned people. Not that the
drive-through guy probably had any contact with the making of them
anyway.
Mark
Non scrivetemi
> You have no clue what makes these kids tick... take the drugs off the
> streets, take the guns off the streets... illegalize guns, legalize
> drugs, Whatever! Because you know what? You still have uneducated
> kids with no guidance, no parents, no money, no moral compass, no
> opportunities, no maturity... and there will still be gangs and
> tragedy... But, instead, we'll have more of it... not less.
>
>
> Do you see a contradiction in that?
Do you remember how well Prohibition worked?
M_P
> On Jul 27, 11:27 pm, "Boyle M. Owl"
> <b...@all.spammers.to.hell.hull.and.halifax.entropy.tmok.com> wrote:
> > Petit Capri's argument that legal pot will add to the gangs' revenue
> > stream is denying reality. The reality is that since pot is illegal,
> > its artificial scarcity raises its price and the profit margins the
> > gangs are able to charge. This is worth fighting over to the gangs.
>
> I guess we should legalize all the guns too.. so the big drug lords
> lose that revenue stream!
Guns are legal and regulated (as the drug alcohol is and pot should
be), and I'm aware of no evidence that gun dealing is a major revenue
source for gangs.
> If everyone had access to guns, no one
> would ever get hurt, right?
Pot makes a very poor weapon.
> I mean, that's YOUR argument in a nutshell. Give free access and all
> the trouble goes away...
No, the argument is: give LEGAL access and all the trouble CAUSED BY
CRIMINALIZATION goes away.
rabbits77
These shootings are just scumbags killing other
scumbags. There should be *more* of this, not less.
Mark T.B. Carroll
> Mike wrote:
(snip)
>> Cranston steps up effort to address gang violence
(snip)
>> Other notable shootings or incidents involving guns in Cranston:
>>
> [snip list of crimes]
> These shootings are just scumbags killing other
> scumbags. There should be *more* of this, not less.
It's not going to end until you address the root causes. Which aren't
only drugs, of course, but also includes things like peer pressure upon
students from disadvantaged communities to not shine academically, thus
not earning a ticket to a different kind of life. It's partly about
profit, partly about opportunities, and partly about community social
dynamics, some of which is self-sustaining. It's possible that with the
right influences on the environment they grow up in, we could have fewer
tragic endings and more worthwhile contributions: rather than dismissing
them all as scumbags, I wonder how easy it is to avoid that kind of life
path having grown up in the those communities and wanting protection,
camaraderie, etc. Which might make me a lily-livered bleeding-heart
liberal, I don't know, but I do know that just leaving them to kill each
other won't solve anything, and I very much expect that at least some
gang involvement starts with strong community-delivered pressures that
in my life I never had to face.
Mark