Do Our Prayers Really Affect Others?
Rowland Croucher
DO OUR PRAYERS REALLY AFFECT OTHERS?
(Sermon preached at Blackburn Baptist Church, Victoria, Australia, by Rev.
Tom Keyte, sometime in the late 1970s).
Bible Reading: Ephesians 1: 15 ff.
Hugh Redwood was a well-known newspaper man. He was the first appointed
religious editor of any major religious paper. At a Salvation Army meeting,
when the appeal was made, to his great astonishment, he found himself
kneeling at the penitent form. The Salvation Army treated him poorly -
exhibited him as a real live star reporter - that didn't happen every day.
It all went to his head, and there were troubles, especially when a new
captain came to lead the Corps. And Hugh Redwood left in high dudgeon.
Many years passed and he rose to the top of his profession. Going home from
the office one Sunday night, he went into his study and started to tinker
with the crystal set that he'd made - it was the early days of radio. The
only thing he could pick up was someone talking about religion - and he
usually avoided this subject like the plague. It was Canon Elliot of St
Pauls, and something in the speaker's voice captured him. He was talking
about prayer, and our duty to pray for our friends - very down-to- earth and
practical. You can't remember them all, he said, so start a card index and
pray for them. You'll never know what might happen if you pray for someone
this night. And in that moment, there came to Hugh Redwood the overwhelming
feeling that he was being prayed for. He got down on his knees and gave his
life back to God. And was very greatly used.
Which brings us to our topic - Do our prayers really affect other people?
Prof Tyndal back in the 19th century was sceptical about this, and proposed
a test. He divided the patients in a hospital ward into two groups. One
group was prayed for and the other not - just to prove if prayer did
anything. Of course that's an impossible test. No one can say whether people
are not prayed for. How do you know? You can't say people are prayed for
because not all who say they pray do in fact pray. And you can't get a
situation in which all factors are removed except prayer.
Well it's possible to explain it other ways, but I have no doubt the correct
answer is the one the Psalmist gave - 'This is the Lord's doing, and it is
marvellous in our eyes.'
Do our prayers affect others? Yes, of course they do, but how? Being prayed
for is a tremendously rich experience. There are people here who pray for me
and I want them to know I'm deeply grateful. I couldn't do my work without
it.
It's an essential part of prayer. The Bible is full of it. Jesus prayed for
his friends, and his enemies. And in the letter to the Hebrews we read that
he lives to make intercession for us now. Jesus is praying for you now!
Paul in most of his letters refers to his habit of praying for his friends.
What it must have meant for Peter to hear Jesus say 'Peter: Satan has made a
bid to have you, but I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail.
And in the Lord's Prayer it's all bound up with others - our Father, our
daily bread, our sins. In intercession - God and I and others are bound up
in a loving circle. So much comes to us through human channels and we can't
avoid that.
Now what happens? Do we tell something God doesn't know? Obviously not. And
yet sometimes I hear a great deal of information given to the Lord in prayer
as if God didn't know. In a Baptist Church in Victoria, I heard an old
deacon say in his prayer: 'Lord, you've simply got no idea of what goes on
around here on Saturday nights!' Now I think God does!
Do we remind God of something He's forgotten? Or are we urging God to do
something He is reluctant to do? Obviously, no, and no.
An invaluable clue is in the story of the paralyzed man and his four
friends, who broke apart the roof and let him down to the feet of Jesus.
When Jesus saw their faith he said to the paralyzed man 'Son, your sins are
forgiven!' And later 'Get up and walk'. Their faith created a certain
situation in which the power of God could be liberated.
Think of a vacuum chamber with an electric bell inside it. The air has all
been pumped out of it and you can see the hammer striking the bell - but you
hear no sound because there's no sound in a vacuum. Then gradually the valve
is turned and air is let back into the chamber, and the ringing of the bell
becomes audible. Prayer somehow lets air into the situation. - creates the
conditions in which something can happen. But it's frightening to think that
power like this can be put into our hands.
Remember what James said (in J B Phillips' translation): 'Tremendous power
is made available through a good person's earnest prayer.' Nobody knows what
might happen if you pray for a friend today. This is one of our primary
responsibilities, that we pray for others.
One of the obstacles in our thinking about these things is the idea that we'
re separated from each other, as the planets are separated from the sun and
each other. But new insights from the social sciences about all this. As
John Donne put it 'No one is an island.' You can only understand an
individual in the context of his or her relationships. As you can only
understand the meaning of a word in its context on the page or screen. If
you see the word 'fast' what does it mean? Speedy? Immovable? Flighty?
Someone's going without food? You only discover the meaning of that word in
the context of the sentences in which it appears. And people are like that -
all bound up together in the bundle of life. How each individual fares is
everybody else's business - not just your own. Scientists tell us that when
a boy throws a stone at a tin on a post he's affecting the balance of the
whole universe!
What we do affects all other people. Unseen filaments running somehow from
mind to mind connect us together in countless ways. Now I'm not suggesting
that our prayer for others is explicable in terms of ESP or telepathy or
something like that. We do not need to create the channels betweem
opurselves and others: we need to understand and hallow the channels already
there. Leslie Weatherhead writes: imagine several Indian farmers digging
wells on their neighbouring properties down to a common underground lake. If
one farmer was foolish enough to poison his well he'd affect all the other
wells in the neighbourhood. But if one were to put into his well some
life-giving salt or chemical of some kind it would enrich the whole
reservoir of the rest. And at the very least our prayers help to increase
the reservoir of love and goodwill and healing in the world, and offset the
forces of evil in the world.
I would like to see from our gathering together this morning that every one
should compile a prayer-list and use it systematically. There's not a person
who can't do that. And if you're too busy to do it you're too busy. This is
a priority. You never know what you may be doing if you pray for others this
day. And we all have the right to expect that from each other. - it's the
true priesthood of believers. Your friends and loved ones; people you don't
like - they need it more than those you love; also those who've injured or
hurt you in some way. Jesus said pray for those who persecute you. And pray
for the church and its total ministry across the world.
I love the story of the missionary coming to the end of his career. He
served on a lonely station in Africa where he was the only white person. And
when we was at home in his hut in the evening, and train the light of his
torch around the photographs of his friends on the walls, and while he held
them in the light he would pray for them. Not a bad kind of description: we
hold our friends in the light, and pray for them.
Healing will be a part of it. This has been so neglected for so long in the
church but is now coming back into recognition. Of course this aspect
bristles with questions and needs treatment on its own. But it is part of
intercession: 'The prayer of faith will save the sick', says James. 'When he
saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, "your sins are forgiven you!"
' Our prayer sometimes seems to fulfil the function of oxygen in an oxygen
tent, with a patient in a bad way. The oxygen comes in and revives him - and
gives the healing forces in his body a chance to take over. Those healing
forces come from God.
Three kinds of results will follow this ministry:
1. Changes in the person we've prayed for - strength and comfort and healing
and conversion and reconciliation. And if here this morning we could see all
the changes which have taken place in people's lives because of all the
prayers that you have offered this week, we would experience a result which
is stunning.
2. Changes in the person who prays. There are many stories of people who've
been healed themselves in the course of their praying for others. And how
many grudges and resentments have died when we have prayed for those who've
offended us. You can't continue to regard as an enemy someone for whom you
sincerely pray. There's a lovely thing in the book of Job. His 'friends'
were very self-righteous and cruel to poor Job. But in the old version this
lovely touch occurs: 'And the Lord turned again the captivity of Job, when
he prayed for his friends.' That's worth thinking about.
3. An ever-deepening of the awareness of people and their needs, and of God
and his resources. And this growing awareness is where real intercession
takes place.
Some rules about praying for others. We don't know all the positive and
negative factors governing all this, but people who have practised it have
brought some of this to light. And they're all inter-related, and in a sense
all variants of the first: THE LORD LOVES. Leslie Weatherhead, out of a very
long experience of this sort of thing, could say that it is demonstrated
that more healings take place when the person who is prayed for is loved.
They're more loved; prayer is more effective when we share in some way the
pain and struggle of others. Elizabeth Barrett Browning said to her husband,
'And when I sue God for myself, he hears that name of thine and sees within
my eyes the tears of two.' That's intercessory praying.
Then, the law of faith: what I have been saying can even be dangerous unless
it's supplemented by faith. We can be sucked into a whirlpool of pain and
despair, unless we hold confidently to the belief that God wills that all
should be free, and whole. The more sensitive one is to evil, and its power
in a world like this, the more we must come with an ever-deepening
certainty, the saving power of Christ.
And then there's a law of persistence: we give up too often, too soon,
because the answer is slow in coming. And often because the answer has
apparently come. Sometimes I think we've been guilty of losing the battle
for someone's welfare because we haven't kept on praying after the first
signs of change have appeared, forgetting that there are such things as
relapses.
Another 'law of effective praying': the law of praying for the whole
person - not only for some annoying or disabling symptom.
There was a woman of whom I read who had a neighbour deeply troubled about
the drinking habits of her husband. And the two of them contracted to pray
together about it. They concentrated in meditation picturing the man cured
of his desire for drink. A week or two later he said 'Something strange has
happened to me: I don't want to drink any more'. And this went on for some
months. But then they had a flaming row and she said 'I suppose you're going
to get drunk again!' And he did. You see these people had been praying
concerning the symptom, rather than the underlying domestic relationship
from which the drinking came. Pray for the whole person. And allied to this
is praying positively rather than negatively.
One greatly skilled group was concerned at the lack of results concerning
someone who was quite desperately ill, and a wise person said: 'You've been
seeing her sick; you must see her well.'
Then there's the law of praying dangerously. Intercession isn't simply
handing someone over to God and washing our hands of that one. There's no
real intercession unless we too are involved. Let me quote James again; he
has a very pungent comment here: 'Suppose there are brothers or sisters who
need clothes, and haven't enough to eat. What good is there in your saying
to them, "God bless you: stay warm and eat well", if you do nothing about
it.' Praying for other people can be costly: and not only in that sense.
Praying for other people can make us vulnerable, deeply vulnerable. It may
even involve going down with somebody else into their own private hell, and
being the instrument of God's healing there. And that may be the result of
our praying.
As I close I come to the deepest thing I want to say - that the real bond
between us is the Holy Spirit himself, and he is the real inspiration for it
all. He is the sphere, if you like, in which prayer operates.
In J V Taylor's book on the Holy Spirit - the best I've ever read - 'The
Go-Between God' - he describes a West Indian woman in London, who in her
flat had just received the news that her husband had been killed in a street
accident. She sat in the corner of the sofa paralysed, immovable. Nobody
could get near to her - it was almost as if she were in a trance. And then
the teacher of one of her children came, and saw the situation in a moment
and sat down beside her, and put her arm across her shoulders and held her
tightly. The white face was pressed to the brown one. And as the intolerable
pain of this seeped through to the visitor, her tears began to fall, on to
their hands clasped in the woman's lap. This went on until the grieving
woman herself began to weep, and their tears were mingled, and their healing
began.
Now I'd like to read you Taylor's comment on that. 'That is the embrace of
God. That is his kiss of life. That is the embrace of his mission with our
intercession. And the Holy Spirit is the force in the straining muscles of
an arm, the Holy Spirit is in the thin film of perspiration between a white
cheek and a brown one. The Holy Spirit is in those mingled tears falling on
to those clasped hands. He is as close and as unobtrusive as that, and as
irresistibly strong. Nobody knows what you may be doing if you pray for a
friend this day.
Before we sing our hymn I'm going to ask you to do something. First of all,
bow your heads and your hearts in prayer; remembering that you are in the
presence of God, who knows every thought and intention of the heart. First
of all, pray for someone you love, who has a need... Now think of someone
you don't like, someone who irritates you and gets on your nerves, and you
find it hard to tolerate them. Pray for that person. And pray not merely for
the removal of the things that irritate you so that the person will be more
acceptable to you, but pray for his or her welfare in the sight of God.
And now think of someone who's deeply hurt you, who's injured you in some
way, so that you find it hard not to think of them without deep resentment.
Someone you even hate if you let yourself do it. Now pray for that one, with
a request for forgiveness, and being willing to forgive. Pray for that
person's true welfare. Lord, hear our prayer and answer us for Jesus' sake.
Amen.
(These notes of Tom Keyte's sermon were transcribed by Rowland Croucher.
April 2002).
Shalom! Rowland Croucher
http://www.pastornet.net.au/jmm
Rowland Croucher
~~~
[1] THE LORD LOVES. Leslie Weatherhead, out of a very long experience of
this sort of thing, could say that it is demonstrated that more healings
take place when the person who is prayed for is loved. They're more loved;
prayer is more effective when we share in some way the pain and struggle of
others. Elizabeth Barrett Browning said to her husband, 'And when I sue God
for myself, he hears that name of thine and sees within my eyes the tears of
two.' That's intercessory praying.
[2] Then, the law of faith: what I have been saying can even be dangerous
unless it's supplemented by faith. We can be sucked into a whirlpool of pain
and despair, unless we hold confidently to the belief that God wills that
all should be free, and whole. The more sensitive one is to evil, and its
power in a world like this, the more we must come with an ever-deepening
certainty, the saving power of Christ.
[3] And then there's a law of persistence: we give up too often, too soon,
because the answer is slow in coming. And often because the answer has
apparently come. Sometimes I think we've been guilty of losing the battle
for someone's welfare because we haven't kept on praying after the first
signs of change have appeared, forgetting that there are such things as
relapses.
[4] Another 'law of effective praying': the law of praying for the whole
person - not only for some annoying or disabling symptom.
There was a woman of whom I read who had a neighbour deeply troubled about
the drinking habits of her husband. And the two of them contracted to pray
together about it. They concentrated in meditation picturing the man cured
of his desire for drink. A week or two later he said 'Something strange has
happened to me: I don't want to drink any more'. And this went on for some
months. But then they had a flaming row and she said 'I suppose you're going
to get drunk again!' And he did. You see these people had been praying
concerning the symptom, rather than the underlying domestic relationship
from which the drinking came. Pray for the whole person. And allied to this
is praying positively rather than negatively.
One greatly skilled group was concerned at the lack of results concerning
someone who was quite desperately ill, and a wise person said: 'You've been
seeing her sick; you must see her well.'
[5] Then there's the law of praying dangerously. Intercession isn't simply
(These notes of Tom Keyte's sermon were transcribed from an audio-tape by
Rowland Croucher. April 2002).
DISCUSS:
Begin with a few short summaries of the stories of biblical intercessors -
for example, Abraham (Genesis 18:16-33), Moses (Exodus 32:11-14), Nehemiah
(1:4-11), Habakkuk (1:1 - 2:20), Jesus (John 17), Stephen (Acts 7:60), Paul
(Colossians 1:9-12).
My (Rowland Croucher's) mother prays for me more than I pray for myself.
Anyone else in that fortunate situation?
Jacques Ellul (Prayer and Modern Man) says there's only one reason to pray:
We are commanded to pray. What other reasons have influenced us?
Have you ever been so concerned about someone that you felt driven to pray
for them?
Hugh Redwood, the well-known London journalist, tells how at the time of
disastrous floods in London, he found his way to a true faith. He saw the
evidence of the reality of God at work in the lives of the Salvation Army
officers who were working hard to bring relief to those in need. He
recounted one experience when they were trying to help a family who had lost
everything. The Salvation Army had been able to re-equip them as far as
clothing was concerned with everything except shoes: there were no shoes
left. However the workers were not worried for all they did was soaked in
prayer. Four pairs were needed and they were sure that they would be
provided. Just at that very moment a parcel was handed in. They opened it
and inside were four pairs of shoes, all of the correct sizes. The Salvation
Army officers took it as a matter of course; they were so used to God
answering their prayers. Hugh Redwood's comment was significant: "You might
call that coincidence" he said, "but if so, it is the first and only time I
have seen four coincidences wrapped up in one brown paper parcel!!" Discuss
the issue of prayer and coincidence!
Maybe throw this one into the discussion: 'When I pray, coincidences happen,
and when I don't pray, they don't.' -- Arichbishop William Temple
When Princess Diana and Prince Charles got divorced, Queen Elizabeth saw to
it that Diana's name was removed from the list of beneficiaries of the
public prayer. Want to comment on that?
Rollo May, the therapist, used to teach his counselor-students (see his The
Art of Counseling) not to think negatively or critically about your clients.
They'll pick it up, even if unspoken. What do you make of that? And the
great modern teacher on intercessory prayer, Frank Laubach believed your
thoughts affect others - for good or ill - and this natural process of
'thought transference' is what God, who created us with this facility, uses
to answer our prayers. Do you agree?
I received an email that said: '>Why would you want to pray for the world,
when the Scriptures tell us not to.' Do they? (See, e.g. " I urge, then,
first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made
for everyone" 1 Timothy 2:1)
Talk about these: "He prayed for His enemies, and you do not even pray for
your friends." Johann Arndt, *True Christianity*. "When you pray for your
friends, be ready to lend a hand. Lip service does nothing for God." Dennis
Kean
What are the advantages of praying for others in a group, as well as
individually?
Those of you who have access to the Usenet Newsgroups on the Internet might
like to visit, for example, talk.religion.spirituality and print off some of
my (Rowland Croucher's) prayer material in the articles 'Pray for the World'
or 'Prayer for the World' - and then pray for the world, particularly the
Middle East.
Is there anything else in Tom Keyte's sermon you'd like to discuss? There
are some big questions he did not address (like 'unanswered' prayer, how to
pray for another's healing etc.) you might like to discuss.
Rowland Croucher
13th April 2002.
Red Clown
Rowland Croucher wrote:
> DO OUR PRAYERS REALLY AFFECT OTHERS?
No, of course not. Silly.
--
Red
There is a blood-washed multitude, a mighty army strong;
The Lord of hosts their righteousness, redeeming love their song.
They follow Christ Whose Name they bear, to yonder portals bright,
Where He has said His faithful ones shall walk with Him in white.
That precious Name their guiding star, its beams will conquer them cast,
And through its power their trusting souls shall overcome at last.
The glory cloud will bring them safe to yonder palace bright,
Where they shall see Him eye to eye and walk with Him in white.
March on! O blood-washed multitude, for lo! the hour draws nigh,
When we shall hail the King of kings triumphant in the sky.
When songs of praise to Him we love, shall fill the courts of light,
And they that overcome the world, shall walk with Him in white.
Rowland Croucher
> Rowland Croucher wrote:
>
> > DO OUR PRAYERS REALLY AFFECT OTHERS?
>
> No, of course not. Silly.
Anything more profound to add to this :-)?
--
St. Jackanapes
In alt.christnet.prayer, Rowland Croucher said...
>
> >
> > Rowland Croucher wrote:
> >
> > > DO OUR PRAYERS REALLY AFFECT OTHERS?
> >
> > No, of course not. Silly.
>
> Anything more profound to add to this :-)?
I'm living proof that they have no affect _or_ effect. Just try me.
--
St. Jackanapes
http://www.jackanapes.ws
==========================================================
From: "SlyFox" <Sly...@infinet.com>
To: "Colleen Baldwin" <********@webtv.net>
Subject: RE: are you on? Date: Sunday, May 07, 2000 10:58 AM
I'm here now baby. Sorry I didn't email ya last night but I spent the
night with Tricia. It was so great! We rented a few movies from
blockbuster and cuddled on the couch. And then kissed and stuff. Anyway,
I cannot BELIEVE St. Jackanapes! Do you know what the sick bastard, Mr.
Child Pornography, put a picture of a naked adolescent giving himself a
blow job on his website? I'm serious! I reported him to net trash and
they took it down. What a low life piece of shit. I tell ya, this guy is
pure dog shit.
Adam J
Presbyter Coxcomb
> > > > DO OUR PRAYERS REALLY AFFECT OTHERS?
> > >
> > > No, of course not. Silly.
> >
> > Anything more profound to add to this :-)?
>
> I'm living proof that they have no affect _or_ effect. Just try me.
I was prayed-for for 14 consecutive days by Noah a few months ago.
That did a whole lot of fuck all.
--
Presbyter Coxcomb
Denizen of Darkness Member #69
Maeljin
> In alt.flame.jesus.christ, St. Jackanapes said:
>
> > > > > DO OUR PRAYERS REALLY AFFECT OTHERS?
> > > >
> > > > No, of course not. Silly.
> > >
> > > Anything more profound to add to this :-)?
> >
> > I'm living proof that they have no affect _or_ effect. Just try me.
>
> I was prayed-for for 14 consecutive days by Noah a few months ago.
>
> That did a whole lot of fuck all.
>
>
--
:Maeljin:
(Damned by Dore, #Primo in Italia)
ICQ UIN 24875529
And we who were so scorned
shall always wish to make their end.
Our words to still their voice.
Our hands to break their worthless necks.
(VNV Nation - Procession)
Mental Disorders: Collect The Whole Set!
FP
"St. Jackanapes" <fuck-u-...@912367934r97.ws> wrote in message
news:MPG.17453ee6c...@news.alt.net...
Presbyter Coxcomb
> Jack I continue in prayer for you in Jesus name.
Do you know exactly when your prayer will have/take any effect?
Uv
"St. Jackanapes" <fuck-u-...@912367934r97.ws> wrote in message
news:MPG.17453ee6c...@news.alt.net...
>
>
> >
> > >
> > > Rowland Croucher wrote:
> > >
> > > > DO OUR PRAYERS REALLY AFFECT OTHERS?
> > >
> > > No, of course not. Silly.
> >
> > Anything more profound to add to this :-)?
>
>
> I'm living proof that they have no affect _or_ effect. Just try me.
My father and 47 cloistered nuns have been praying for me for 19 years.
I am now an atheist.
It WORKED!!!!!
St. Jackanapes
In alt.flame.jesus.christ, FP said...
> Jack I continue in prayer for you in Jesus name.
As I continue to mock both you and your fairy tale death cult.
--
St. Jackanapes
http://www.jackanapes.ws
==========================================================
Please give me a number where I can reach you. This is my third letter
to you. One of your members is holding slanderous content about me on
your servers and this is call for legal action. The United States Secret
Service suggested that I talk to you guys about this matter.I have tried
to call you but nobody answers.
Please respond ASAP - Sean "Adam J" Conley
St. Jackanapes
In alt.flame.jesus.christ, Presbyter Coxcomb said...
> In alt.flame.jesus.christ, FP said:
>
> > Jack I continue in prayer for you in Jesus name.
>
> Do you know exactly when your prayer will have/take any effect?
Will it be like taking a hit of Acid? It's been a few years since I've
done any psychedelics. Will I see music and hear colors? That's the way
Time Magazine described an LSD experience back in 1968. I read that at
the age of 12 and couldn't wait to try the stuff. Six months later I
did. So, FP, what's in store? Should I go up in the attic and dig up my
lava lamp and black-light Escher posters?
--
St. Jackanapes
http://www.jackanapes.ws
==========================================================
Please give me a number where I can reach you. This is my third letter
Presbyter Coxcomb
> > > Jack I continue in prayer for you in Jesus name.
> >
> > Do you know exactly when your prayer will have/take any effect?
>
> Will it be like taking a hit of Acid? It's been a few years since I've
> done any psychedelics. Will I see music and hear colors? That's the way
> Time Magazine described an LSD experience back in 1968.
If being prayed for is like an LSD experience, I want in.
Maeljin
> Jack I continue in prayer for you in Jesus name.
>
Maeljin
>
> In alt.flame.jesus.christ, Presbyter Coxcomb said...
>
> > In alt.flame.jesus.christ, FP said:
> >
> > > Jack I continue in prayer for you in Jesus name.
> >
> > Do you know exactly when your prayer will have/take any effect?
>
> Will it be like taking a hit of Acid? It's been a few years since I've
> done any psychedelics. Will I see music and hear colors? That's the way
> Time Magazine described an LSD experience back in 1968. I read that at
> the age of 12 and couldn't wait to try the stuff. Six months later I
> did.
Did you actually see colors? I just see the shadows running around, once a group of tall candles
becoming spheres, phantom police cars ANYWHERE (guess where THAT comes from), and always, always
spend *hours* thinking I have come to the mental place where all religions are born.
Sure Xianity is a hell of bad trip.
Btw, back in the 60s acids where WAY stronger.
St. Jackanapes
In alt.flame.jesus.christ, Maeljin said...
> In article <MPG.17465d609...@news.alt.net>, jacka...@hotmail.com says...
> >
> > In alt.flame.jesus.christ, Presbyter Coxcomb said...
> >
> > > In alt.flame.jesus.christ, FP said:
> > >
> > > > Jack I continue in prayer for you in Jesus name.
> > >
> > > Do you know exactly when your prayer will have/take any effect?
> >
> > Will it be like taking a hit of Acid? It's been a few years since I've
> > done any psychedelics. Will I see music and hear colors? That's the way
> > Time Magazine described an LSD experience back in 1968. I read that at
> > the age of 12 and couldn't wait to try the stuff. Six months later I
> > did.
>
> Did you actually see colors? I just see the shadows running around, once a group of tall candles
> becoming spheres, phantom police cars ANYWHERE (guess where THAT comes from), and always, always
> spend *hours* thinking I have come to the mental place where all religions are born.
>
> Sure Xianity is a hell of bad trip.
>
> Btw, back in the 60s acids where WAY stronger.
That's what I've been told. I was sitting in the bar a few years ago
talking with a gal about 21 I knew. She smiled really big and told me
that she was peaking on an acid trip. I looked at her pupils and they
looked normal to me. I asked her if she was peaking on acid, how in the
fuck could she even see me and hear what I was saying? Much less
recognize me. In 1969 that hour & a half peak cut me totally off from
the real world. Did I see colors? Crap, I saw and entered alternate
universes. It can't even be put into words the things I've seen on that
shit. Just guessing, I'd say that shit I used to do is at least 20 times
as strong as whatever that shit is that they're passing off as acid
today. Sounds like I'm glad I've never decided to go down memory lane
and do any. I'd think that I'd ben ripped off and kick somebody's ass.
--
St. Jackanapes
http://www.jackanapes.ws
==========================================================
*NOTE TO CHRISTIANS PRAYING FOR ME:
**********************************************************
Matthew 6:7: And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans,
for they think they will be heard because of their many words.
-------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.jackanapes.ws/gifs/jesuskills.gif
Maeljin
screams...
amphetamines. Sad to think that they are begininning to use Kethamine to get visions nowadays. The
next psychedelic frontier is something you put an horse to sleep with.
Maeljin
understand where am I and where my body is, even if I communicate with others pretty well. But STILL
no visuals.
Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D., P.A.
Complete crystalline clarity of thought. That is, when my face isn't plastered
with a shit-eating grin and I'm giggling like a maniac. No visuals -- no
hallucinations of any sort -- whatsoever.
Maeljin
Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D., P.A.
The pot more than makes up for it.
Presbyter Coxcomb
> > [...] is the shit going around these days STILL lsd?
>
> The pot more than makes up for it.
True dat.
Maeljin
St. Jackanapes
In alt.flame.jesus.christ, Maeljin said...
Things have really gone downhill when kids are burgling veterinarian's
offices to have a mind expanding experience. How could the euphoric
dream we had in the 60's go so terribly wrong??
St. Jackanapes
In alt.flame.jesus.christ, Maeljin said...
No. If you don't see stuff, it AIN'T acid. Amphetamines will make your
pupils dilate just the same. Who knows what's in that shit. 99% speed, a
little strychnine, and a teeeeny bit of LSD. It could be that shit we
called Mescaline back in '69. Same buzz, no visuals other than patterns.
Hmmmm... Rev. Dr. Chuck? What's your opinion?
Ronny
hf8ru5r8...@o9800ileirhfo.ail.com says...
It's the fault of whiners who blow the negative of side-effects of drugs
way out of proportion. You know you can't even buy Listerine without
getting carded (because it's 20% alcohol) in some stores? I even have a
stupid physician who won't prescribe more than 10 doses of Fioricet at a
time, because the bitch is afraid I'll get "addicted" to it. Fuck's
sake. Fioricet is no stronger than a double dose of Advil, and it's got
less caffeine in it than strong coffee.
Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D., P.A.
A toke to Charles Darwin...
Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D., P.A.
I'd need a sample first.
Rev Phylter
news:3CE3530E.6580@_REMOVETHIS_erols.com:
Or did Xtian potheads (???) pray for better weed. It's a fucking miracle,
brother Caleb.
--
Rev Phylter
ULC Ordained minister
Denizen of Darkness #44
AFJC Antipodean Attaché
http://www.rudraigh.com/afjc/regulars.html
Maeljin
--
:Maeljin:
(Damned by Dore, #Primo in Italia)
Remove SPAMFUCK from the address to Mail me.
Maeljin
detect mescaline, you'd need WAY more than one of those little blotters.
COULD be 2cb... but I really don't know.
--
:Maeljin:
(Damned by Dore, #Primo in Italia)
Remove SPAMFUCK from the address to Mail me.
Maeljin
safest drug out there.
It's a HELL to produce tough.
--
:Maeljin:
(Damned by Dore, #Primo in Italia)
Remove SPAMFUCK from the address to Mail me.
Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D., P.A.
LSA, shrooms... both cheap, or nearly cheap.
St. Jackanapes
In alt.flame.jesus.christ, Ronny said...
I blame Nancy Reagan. The medical community is starting to come around
about pain meds, thankfully. Six years ago I could hardly get a doc to
write me a script for Ultrams. A year ago, despite even the hysteria in
the US over "Hillbilly Heroin" aka Oxycontin, a doctor put me on it for
chronic pain. Because of my age, long hair, and unconventional
appearance, I never expected that to happen so easily. I've never heard
of Fioricet. Where abouts are you located?
St. Jackanapes
In alt.flame.jesus.christ, Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D., P.A. said...
I agree. We should give Maeljin our mailing addresses.
Presbyter Coxcomb
> We should give Maeljin our mailing addresses.
IMHO, stick all the reg's on the list. Maeljin, Juust, Phylter, Dave etc. One
big happy family. Do I get a harumph?
Maeljin
> In alt.flame.jesus.christ, St. Jackanapes said:
>
> > We should give Maeljin our mailing addresses.
>
> IMHO, stick all the reg's on the list. Maeljin, Juust, Phylter, Dave etc. One
> big happy family. Do I get a harumph?
>
>
--
:Maeljin:
(Damned by Dore, #Primo in Italia)
Remove SPAMFUCK from the address to Mail me.
Presbyter Coxcomb
> > > We should give Maeljin our mailing addresses.
> >
> > IMHO, stick all the reg's on the list. Maeljin, Juust, Phylter, Dave etc. One
> > big happy family. Do I get a harumph?
>
> The next time I rob a bank, I swear I will employ the money to buy you
> psychedelics, yeah.
A carton of Carlsberg & a case of cigars would do fine, thanks.
pablo
> "St. Jackanapes" <fuck-u-...@912367934r97.ws> wrote in message
> news:MPG.17453ee6c...@news.alt.net...
> >
> > In alt.christnet.prayer, Rowland Croucher said...
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Rowland Croucher wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > DO OUR PRAYERS REALLY AFFECT OTHERS?
> > > >
> > > > No, of course not. Silly.
> > >
> > > Anything more profound to add to this :-)?
> >
> >
> > I'm living proof that they have no affect _or_ effect. Just try me.
>
>
>
> My father and 47 cloistered nuns have been praying for me for 19 years.
>
> I am now an atheist.
>
> It WORKED!!!!!
Well then you are living proof. I also had an uncle who wanted to
give me a million dollars -- for years he tried -- stupid man -- now
he is dead, and his money is gone -- but lucky me -- I may not be rich
but I am doing OK! Pretty good actually.
He found his money anyway, got rich through inheritance. So, I just
didn't want to have anything to do with that. It seems silly and
stupid to get all caught up in materialism IMO.
Money isn't everything. Well, at least to me, I prefer my freedom and
my happiness. I suppose my uncle thought his found wealth was
something important to him? I suppose I might be dumb for not
understanding that, in his eyes, giving me what he supposed to be
important was meaningful. But, I rather enjoyed mocking him and
reacting against his silly arguments to get me on his side. No luck
there for him.
I wasn't about to let that man control me or any aspect of my life,
and I saw his efforts to enrich me with his "riches" to be crass and
rude. I just didn't share his belief or value system. So, I called
him an idiot.
Would a million dollars have effected my life? Of course. But, I
chose against it. Do the well meaning (I suppose they are well
meaning I could be wrong) prayers of your father have an effect on
your life? The certainly have -- just like you have said -- you have
chosen something else.
An Xian's pov.
pablo
Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D., P.A.
>
> Money isn't everything. Well, at least to me, I prefer my freedom and
> my happiness.
Guess what two things money buys you?
Maeljin
puke!
Shrooms are great... I'm working at growing my own.
There's also Salvia Divinorum, I will try that in a few weeks... I'll say what the result is, if you
care.
--
:Maeljin:
(Damned by Dore, #Primo in Italia)
Remove SPAMFUCK from the address to Mail me.
And we who were so scorned
shall always wish to make their end.
Our words to still their voice.
Our hands to break their worthless necks.
(VNV Nation - Procession)
UDP wor WebTV, NOW.
Ronald
cdub@_REMOVETHIS_erols.com says...
Buy a whore, then bribe your way out of jail. Now you're happy and free
and you couldn't have done it without money.
Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D., P.A.
Buy an army and a nuke. What else do you need?
Presbyter Coxcomb
> > > > Money isn't everything. Well, at least to me, I prefer my freedom and
> > > > my happiness.
> > >
> > > Guess what two things money buys you?
> >
> > Buy a whore, then bribe your way out of jail. Now you're happy and free
> > and you couldn't have done it without money.
>
> Buy an army and a nuke. What else do you need?
Exotic cheeses?
Pope Rudraigh
<cox...@churchofmango.com> wrote:
>In alt.flame.jesus.christ, Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D., P.A. said:
>
>> > > > Money isn't everything. Well, at least to me, I prefer my freedom and
>> > > > my happiness.
>> > >
>> > > Guess what two things money buys you?
>> >
>> > Buy a whore, then bribe your way out of jail. Now you're happy and free
>> > and you couldn't have done it without money.
>>
>> Buy an army and a nuke. What else do you need?
>
>Exotic cheeses?
Mmmm ... cheese.
******************
This is not a sig
Presbyter Coxcomb
> >> > > > Money isn't everything. Well, at least to me, I prefer my freedom and
> >> > > > my happiness.
> >> > >
> >> > > Guess what two things money buys you?
> >> >
> >> > Buy a whore, then bribe your way out of jail. Now you're happy and free
> >> > and you couldn't have done it without money.
> >>
> >> Buy an army and a nuke. What else do you need?
> >
> > Exotic cheeses?
>
> Mmmm ... cheese.
Mmmm ... pussy.
Uv
"Presbyter Coxcomb" <cox...@churchofmango.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1751bb10...@news.netunltd.com.au...
> In alt.flame.jesus.christ, Pope Rudraigh said:
>
> > >> > > > Money isn't everything. Well, at least to me, I prefer my
freedom and
> > >> > > > my happiness.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Guess what two things money buys you?
> > >> >
> > >> > Buy a whore, then bribe your way out of jail. Now you're happy and
free
> > >> > and you couldn't have done it without money.
> > >>
> > >> Buy an army and a nuke. What else do you need?
> > >
> > > Exotic cheeses?
> >
> > Mmmm ... cheese.
>
> Mmmm ... pussy.
>
Mmmm... Pork
Presbyter Coxcomb
> > > >> > > > Money isn't everything. Well, at least to me, I prefer my freedom and
> > > >> > > > my happiness.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Guess what two things money buys you?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Buy a whore, then bribe your way out of jail. Now you're happy and free
> > > >> > and you couldn't have done it without money.
> > > >>
> > > >> Buy an army and a nuke. What else do you need?
> > > >
> > > > Exotic cheeses?
> > >
> > > Mmmm ... cheese.
> >
> > Mmmm ... pussy.
>
> Mmmm... Pork
Mmmm ... Pr0n.
Maeljin
2) Vaginas
Presbyter Coxcomb
> > > Money isn't everything. Well, at least to me, I prefer my freedom and
> > > my happiness.
> >
> > Guess what two things money buys you?
>
> 1) Presidency
> 2) Vaginas
Why buy pussy when you get it for free with the presidency?
Uv
> In alt.flame.jesus.christ, Maeljin said:
>
> > > > Money isn't everything. Well, at least to me, I prefer my freedom
and
> > > > my happiness.
> > >
> > > Guess what two things money buys you?
> >
> > 1) Presidency
> > 2) Vaginas
>
> Why buy pussy when you get it for free with the presidency?
someone has to pay the interns..
Uv
Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D., P.A.
>
> In alt.flame.jesus.christ, Maeljin said:
>
> > > > > > >> > > > Money isn't everything. Well, at least to me, I prefer my freedom and
> > > > > > >> > > > my happiness.
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > Guess what two things money buys you?
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > Buy a whore, then bribe your way out of jail. Now you're happy and free
> > > > > > >> > and you couldn't have done it without money.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Buy an army and a nuke. What else do you need?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Exotic cheeses?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mmmm ... cheese.
> > > > >
> > > > > Mmmm ... pussy.
> > > >
> > > > Mmmm... Pork
> > >
> > > Mmmm ... Pr0n.
> >
>
> Mmmm, cheesy pork-filled pr0n-worthy midget pussies...or something.
Mmm... topped with hot chocolate liquer sauce.
Maeljin
pablo
>my happiness. I suppose my uncle thought his found wealth was
>something important to him? I suppose I might be dumb for not
>understanding that, in his eyes, giving me what he supposed to be
>important was meaningful. But, I rather enjoyed mocking him and
>reacting against his silly arguments to get me on his side. No luck
>there for him.
>I wasn't about to let that man control me or any aspect of my life,
>and I saw his efforts to enrich me with his "riches" to be crass and
>rude. I just didn't share his belief or value system. So, I called
>him an idiot.
>Would a million dollars have effected my life? Of course. But, I
>chose against it. Do the well meaning (I suppose they are well
>meaning I could be wrong) prayers of your father have an effect on
>your life? They certainly have -- just like you have said -- you
have
>chosen something else.
So, the humerous conclusion is -- money can buy me some types of
freedom and some types of happiness -- and a lot of good jokes as
well.
So, I was wrong, at least to these posters, that my uncle's offer was
something that would have hindered my happiness and freedom. I
suppose it would have enhanced them. But the analogy -- was this, my
uncle wanted to give those things to me -- and I did not want them
because I did not want his control in my life. He thought his gift
was well intentioned. I thought it was manipulation, something to
scorn, something to mock, a repressive, and manipulative ploy on his
part. So, I called him an idiot.
So, when someone prays for you, offering what they consider to be
something of great value -- and you do not see it that way, then? To
say the prayers had no effect, would not be conclusive. Only a
specualtion.
Since UV you seem not too interested in rational thinking -- only in
citing that there are nuns and a father who are praying for you --
and your atheism is proof that their prayers have no effect. I would
suggest you do some praying of your own. Pray to your favorite bar of
soap (or whatever for a week), pray to your favorite deity of choice
for a week, maybe Elvis, but then give Jesus a shot and pray to him
for a week. Compare your data and get back to me.
let the flames roll on. Better to burn out... or something like that
Pablo
Guess what two things money buys you? Go ask Elvis.
Guess what two things it takes to buy money?
Pope Rudraigh
<massive snippage>
>let the flames roll on. Better to burn out... or something like that
>Pablo
>
>Guess what two things money buys you? Go ask Elvis.
>Guess what two things it takes to buy money?
What a sad wanker.
Pope Rudraigh
Denizen of Darkness (DoD #1)
http://www.rudraigh.com/afjc/home.html
"Holy Trinity my triple cheeked ass!" - Pope Rudraigh
" I too have learned the "grief" of cross posting, and in particular,
in replying to those denizens of darkness who live in afjc and
alt.christnet."- " Fervent" 11/11/2001
Devil Dawg
> So, I was wrong, at least to these posters, that my uncle's offer was
> something that would have hindered my happiness and freedom. I
> suppose it would have enhanced them. But the analogy -- was this, my
> uncle wanted to give those things to me -- and I did not want them
> because I did not want his control in my life.
Hey, I'm with you, amigo.
Slavery is slavery, no matter how attractive the offer. Make your own way in
life and tell your uncle to fuck himself.