FOR PURPOSES OF LAW, ATHEISM IS A RELIGION
Bill McGinnis
Attention Fellow Christians:
The document below carries some very powerful ideas which can be used
to attack the teaching of atheism in places where the teaching of
Christianity is prohibited. This document is in the Public Domain, so
you may use it freely and without restriction. I invite you to join
with me in spreading these ideas everywhere, by all means possible.
<><
"For Purposes Of Law, Atheism Is A Religion"
by Bill McGinnis - Public Domain
A person's religion is the sum total of his beliefs about God and the
supernatural. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are the three
"monotheistic" religions, with belief in one God, Creator of the
universe.
Some other religions are "polytheistic," with belief in many ("poly")
gods, each with different functions.
Atheism is the religion whose belief about God is that there is no
God.
"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."
(Psalms 14:1a KJV)
Some atheists, for their own political reasons, assert that atheism is
not a religion but instead is the total absence of religion. This
allows them to spread their atheistic beliefs freely in societies
which insist on separation of "church and state."
But this is like saying that "black," (which physicists define as the
total absence of color) is not a color. The car I drive is a big, old
Chevrolet, whose color is black. In common practice throughout the
world, "black" is understood to be a color, despite the technical
definition of the physicists. Likewise, "atheism" is a religion,
despite any technical definitions to the contrary.
If "black" is a color, then "atheism" is a religion.
If atheism is a religion, then it must be subject to the same
restrictions imposed by governments on other religions. In particular,
in the United States, the teaching of atheism must be prohibited
wherever the teaching of Christianity is prohibited.
But where is atheism being taught? Atheism is being taught, by
default, in all places where other religions cannot be taught,
particularly in the public schools.
Yours in Christ,
Bill McGinnis <><
bmc...@patriot.net
http://www.patriot.net/users/bmcgin/ministries.html
"Teaching The Practical Christian Life"
To receive INTERNET DAILY CHAPEL each day by e-mail, please
send your request to bmc...@patriot.net.
Brian Westley
...
> But where is atheism being taught? Atheism is being taught, by
> default, in all places where other religions cannot be taught,
> particularly in the public schools.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The funniest part of this whole brain-damaged rant.
---
Merlyn LeRoy
Frances Del Rio
> Attention Fellow Christians:
>
> The document below carries some very powerful ideas which can be used
> to attack the teaching of atheism in places where the teaching of
> Christianity is prohibited. This document is in the Public Domain, so
> you may use it freely and without restriction. I invite you to join
> with me in spreading these ideas everywhere, by all means possible.
> "For Purposes Of Law, Atheism Is A Religion"
> by Bill McGinnis - Public Domain
> A person's religion is the sum total of his beliefs about God and the
> supernatural. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are the three
> "monotheistic" religions, with belief in one God, Creator of the
> universe.
>
> Some other religions are "polytheistic," with belief in many ("poly")
> gods, each with different functions.
>
> Atheism is the religion whose belief about God is that there is no
> God.
Atheism is when you don't believe in god -- in any god at all -- and don't
have a religion.... Religious fanatics love to say atheism is a religion
so they can attack it as such.. It's sheer nonsense...
-f-
Treelo
> "For Purposes Of Law, Atheism Is A Religion"
> by Bill McGinnis - Public Domain
Maybe you should know know how the law defines religion before being so
sure......
"Generally speaking, religious beliefs flow out of, and embody a sense of a
relationshop to a supreme being or supernatural force which gives rise to
'duties superior to those arising from any human relation." Jacques v.
Hilton, 569 F.Supp 730 (1983) quoting U.S. v. Seeger, 380 U.S. 163 (1965).
Given the fact that this definition encompasses some *relationship* to a god,
atheism would specifically be excluded as a religion since we atheists don't
believe in any gods to have a relationship with.
Jacques went on to say that "Absent some uniformity, some code, some specific
concepts, plaintiffs' beliefs do not constitute a religion."
The only thing tying atheists together is a plain and simple belief that gods
do not exist......no other uniformity, no codes, nothing more...... Again,
it's pretty clear that atheism doesn't fit into the category of religions.
In cases dealing with the 1st Amendment, religion and atheism are often
referred to as "religion OR atheism" meaning that they are separate and
distinct (ie; religion is not inclusive of atheism), but still recognizing
their independent protections under the 1st Amendment.
> A person's religion is the sum total of his beliefs about God and the
> supernatural. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are the three
> "monotheistic" religions, with belief in one God, Creator of the
> universe.
Who's definition is this? What, are we making up definitions as we go? Well
here's mine (and it's also Webster's Dictionary's by the way):
1. "the service and worship of God or the supernatural." 2. "commitment or
devotion to religious faith or observance." 3. "a personal set or
institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices."
I don't think atheism fits into any of the above.
> Some other religions are "polytheistic," with belief in many ("poly")
> gods, each with different functions.
Very good.......but you forgot pantheism and deism. Shall I define them for
you, or is your attention centered on attacking the atheists?
> Atheism is the religion whose belief about God is that there is no
> God.
>
> "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."
> (Psalms 14:1a KJV)
Just had to throw that in, didn't you? No matter......we atheists don't care
too much what your ancient book of evil has to say.
> Some atheists, for their own political reasons, assert that atheism is
> not a religion but instead is the total absence of religion. This
> allows them to spread their atheistic beliefs freely in societies
> which insist on separation of "church and state."
You seem to be a bit misinformed about the doctrine of separation or church
and state. It doesn't mean that religious or atheistic beliefs can't be
taught at all......if that were true, you'd have no church to go to. What it
means is that the government (be it local, state or federal) cannot establish
or endorse any particular religion. It basically means that all governments
have to keep pretty silent on the issue.....whether that be the existance or
non-existance of god(s).
So, atheists are entitled to teach atheistic beliefs just as theists are
entitled to teach theistic beliefs......just not in places like public
schools which are funded with public money and run by the local governments.
> But this is like saying that "black," (which physicists define as the
> total absence of color) is not a color. The car I drive is a big, old
> Chevrolet, whose color is black. In common practice throughout the
> world, "black" is understood to be a color, despite the technical
> definition of the physicists. Likewise, "atheism" is a religion,
> despite any technical definitions to the contrary.
>
> If "black" is a color, then "atheism" is a religion.
According to everyday usage of the word "black", it denotes a color.....but
that doesn't make the definition technically correct. By the same token,
although many theists like to think of atheism as a religion, that doesn't
make it technically correct.
> If atheism is a religion, then it must be subject to the same
> restrictions imposed by governments on other religions.
Religion OR atheism......and it is when used in this manner. Read some 1st
Amendment cases and you'll see that.
> In particular,
> in the United States, the teaching of atheism must be prohibited
> wherever the teaching of Christianity is prohibited.
I don't know of anyplace where students are being taught active atheism. I
don't think you do either.
> But where is atheism being taught? Atheism is being taught, by
> default, in all places where other religions cannot be taught,
> particularly in the public schools.
By default.....? Oh, I see......so if a subject doesn't actively teach that
there is a god, then it must be the equivalent of teaching atheism. Well,
that's not a very persuasive argument......in fact, it's quite weak. If you
are referring to the teaching of evolution, you'll have to think again
because evolution doesn't reference the existance or non-existance of gods
one way or the other. Just because it doesn't agree with ridiculous stories
in the bible doesn't make it atheistic, and it certainly doesn't make it
wrong. And the courts have recognized this in invalidating certain
anti-evolution statutes (Arkansas' comes to mind) enacted to try to prevent
public schools from teaching evolution. The court recognized that evolution
is not an atheistic principal (thereby not violating the 1st
amendment)......it also recognized that such anti-evolution statues were
enacted solely because *some* christians believe that evolution doesn't agree
with Genesis............and therefore the statutes themselves violated the
1st Amendment.
Shall we stop teaching students Geology.......it teaches the earth is
billions of years old contrary to Genesis. Shall we stop teaching science
altogether.....so many scientific principles directly contradict the bible.
Hey, if you want your kids to be stupid.....that's just fine, send them to
christian school so they don't have to learn about the real world. That's
not a goal I have for my child.
-Treelo
Atheist #1399
Chief Justice
EAC Appellate Court
John Ings
Bravo! Well posted sir!
## The Constitution was made to guard people against good intentions.
maff91
wrote:
>
> Attention Fellow Christians:
>
> The document below carries some very powerful ideas which can be used
> to attack the teaching of atheism in places where the teaching of
> Christianity is prohibited. This document is in the Public Domain, so
> you may use it freely and without restriction. I invite you to join
> with me in spreading these ideas everywhere, by all means possible.
Have you read the founding fathers?
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ed_buckner/quotations.html
>
> <><
>
>
> "For Purposes Of Law, Atheism Is A Religion"
> by Bill McGinnis - Public Domain
>
>
> A person's religion is the sum total of his beliefs about God and the
> supernatural. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are the three
> "monotheistic" religions, with belief in one God, Creator of the
> universe.
>
> Some other religions are "polytheistic," with belief in many ("poly")
> gods, each with different functions.
>
> Atheism is the religion whose belief about God is that there is no
> God.
>
> "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."
> (Psalms 14:1a KJV)
>
>
> Some atheists, for their own political reasons, assert that atheism is
Try
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/nontheism/atheism/arguments.html
> not a religion but instead is the total absence of religion. This
> allows them to spread their atheistic beliefs freely in societies
> which insist on separation of "church and state."
Why should society allow criminals like Hitler, Pat Robertson, Jim
Bakker, Oral Roberts, Jim Falwell, Jim Jones, David Koresh, Bill
McGinnis, et al to rule over them?
>
> But this is like saying that "black," (which physicists define as the
> total absence of color) is not a color. The car I drive is a big, old
> Chevrolet, whose color is black. In common practice throughout the
> world, "black" is understood to be a color, despite the technical
> definition of the physicists. Likewise, "atheism" is a religion,
> despite any technical definitions to the contrary.
>
> If "black" is a color, then "atheism" is a religion.
Try http://www.signature.nl/alt.atheism/atheism_faq.htm
>
> If atheism is a religion, then it must be subject to the same
> restrictions imposed by governments on other religions. In particular,
> in the United States, the teaching of atheism must be prohibited
> wherever the teaching of Christianity is prohibited.
>
> But where is atheism being taught? Atheism is being taught, by
> default, in all places where other religions cannot be taught,
> particularly in the public schools.
Supreme Court doesn't agree with you.
Http://members.tripod.com/~candst/index.html
>
> Yours in Christ,
>
> Bill McGinnis <><
> bmc...@patriot.net
> http://www.patriot.net/users/bmcgin/ministries.html
> "Teaching The Practical Christian Life"
>
> To receive INTERNET DAILY CHAPEL each day by e-mail, please
> send your request to bmc...@patriot.net.
Greene's Creationism Truth Filter
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/7755/
Jeff A
Bill McGinnis barfed ...
> But this is like saying that "black," (which physicists define as the
> total absence of color) is not a color. The car I drive is a big, old
> Chevrolet, whose color is black. In common practice throughout the
> world, "black" is understood to be a color, despite the technical
> definition of the physicists. Likewise, "atheism" is a religion,
> despite any technical definitions to the contrary.
>
> If "black" is a color, then "atheism" is a religion.
Wrong, numbnuts. Black is not the absence of color. It is the absence of
light. A room may have very colorful walls, but if it has no light in it,
you won't see them. It's completely dark (or black). When you see color,
you're simply seeing the light reflecting off that color. You should stick
to christerism - leave the physics lessons to the en"light"ened.
Jeffrey L. Adam
Atheist #1413
------------------------
"For there is neither nothing good nor bad but thinking makes it so"
-- William Shakespeare (Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii)
Peter Kirby
<you know, but if you don't, there's DejaNews>
The subject line says "FOR PURPOSES OF LAW." Well, I'd like to see a court
ruling which in favor of this. I think there may well be such a ruling that
"Atheism" is a religion, but I don't know the citation.
Does this mean that I can declare myself an atheist minister and get
tax-exemption status?
More importantly, I would like to know which U.S. public schools have been
teaching the religion of Atheism.
--
Peter Kirby <ki...@earthlink.net>
Exterminator
>
> Bill McGinnis wrote:
>
> <you know, but if you don't, there's DejaNews>
>
> The subject line says "FOR PURPOSES OF LAW." Well, I'd like to see a court
> ruling which in favor of this. I think there may well be such a ruling that
> "Atheism" is a religion, but I don't know the citation.
Not "per se". I'd have to look the case up, but the situation in which
"atheism" is treated as "a religion" centered around draft exemptions
for conscientious objector status. In brief, the SC decided that trying
to decide when a deeply held belief was sufficiently "religious" in
character as a requirement to qualify for the exemption put courts in
the position of becoming far too entangled -- and therefor entangled the
government unconstitutionally -- in deciding just when a belief
qualified as "religious". So the test became the length of time the
belief had been held. No simple matter in itself, but the goal was to
prevent sudden "conversions" occurring when the notice arrived without
at the same time excluding a bona fide pacifist who happened to be an
atheist.
In a nutshell.
>
> Does this mean that I can declare myself an atheist minister and get
> tax-exemption status?
If you want to go to the trouble to establish a church and if you
REALLY want to follow all the IRS rules regarding a "vow of poverty",
sure you can.
However, although I've never really investigated the matter all that
closely, I doubt you'd want to meet the IRS tests to achieve a personal
tax exemption.
But there IS a an atheist church (Church of Free Thought, or something
similar) in Texas set up by a group of atheists.
>
> More importantly, I would like to know which U.S. public schools have been
> teaching the religion of Atheism.
As we both know, none.
-}Exterminator{-
-------
"Recently I was reading somewhere or other about an Italian
curio-dealer who attempted to sell a seventeenth-century
crucifix to J.P. Morgan. It was not at first sight a particularly
interesting work of art. But it turned out that the real point
was that the crucifix took to pieces and inside it was concealed
a stiletto. What a perfect symbol of the Christian religion."
[George Orwell, from notebook
published after his death]
-------
"In theory it is still possible to be an orthodox religious believer
without being intellectually crippled in the process; but it is far
from easy, and in practice books by orthodox believers usually show
the same cramped, blinkered outlook as books by orthodox Stalinists
or others who are mentally unfree. The reason is that the Christian
churches still demand assent to doctrines which no one seriously
believes in. The most obvious case is immortality of the soul."
[George Orwell, from review of T.S. Eliot]
-------
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from a religious conviction"
[Pascal, Pensees (1670)]
-------
"An atheist doesn't have to be someone who thinks he has a proof
that there can't be a god. He only has to be someone who believes
that the evidence on the God question is at a similar level to the
evidence on the werewolf question."
[John McCarthy]
-------
"W. V. O. Quine has been one of the most ruthless of recent appliers of
this
principle [Ockham's razor.] I recall an exchange in print (a
fest-schrift,
around 1980) where someone quoted Shakespeare's "There are more things
on
heaven and earth, than are dreamed of in your philosophy" at Quine.
Quine
responded something like, "Possibly, but my concern is that there not
be
more things in my philosophy than are in heaven and earth."
[David Lyndes]
-------
"As to the common people, ... one has to be hard with them and see that
they
do their work and that under the threat of the sword and the law they
comply
with the observance of piety, just as you chain up wild beasts."
[Martin Luther]
-------
"How often have not the demons called 'Nix,' drawn women and girls into
the water, and there had commerce with them, with fearful
consequences."
[Martin Luther]
-------
"I myself saw and touched at Dessay, a child of this sort, which had
no human parents, but had proceeded from the Devil. He was twelve
years old, and, in outward form, exactly resembled ordinary children."
[Martin Luther]
------
"Who will venture to place the authority of
Copernicus above that of the Holy Spirit?"
[John Calvin, citing Ps. 93:1 in his Commentary on Genesis]
-------
"If you were taught that elves caused rain, every
time it rained, you'd see the proof of elves."
[Ariex]
-------
"Nothing is more humbling than to look with a strong magnifying glass at
an
insect so tiny that the naked eye sees only the barest speck and to
discover
that nevertheless it is sculpted and articulated and striped with the
same
care and imagination as a zebra. Apparently it does not occur to
nature
whether or not a creature is within our range of vision, and the
suspicion
arises that even the zebra was not designed for our benefit."
[Rudolf Arnheim]
-------
"To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always
been premature, and it remains premature today."
[Isaac Asimov]
-------
"I don't believe in an afterlife, so I don't have to spend my whole
life fearing hell, or fearing heaven even more. For whatever the
tortures of hell, I think the boredom of heaven would be even worse."
[Isaac Asimov]
-------
"Often a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and
the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of the stars
and
even their sizes and distances,... and this knowledge he holds with
certainty from reason and experience. It is thus offensive and
disgraceful
for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about such things,
claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture. We should do
all
that we can to avoid such an embarrassing situation, which people see
as
ignorance in the Christian and laugh to scorn."
[St. Augustine, "De Genesi ad litteram libri duodecim"
(The Literal Meaning of Genesis)]
-------
"Atheism leaves a man to sense, to philosophy, to natural piety, to
laws, to reputation, all which may be guides to an outward moral
virtue, though religion were not; but superstition dismounts all
these, and erects an absolute monarchy in the minds of men...the
master of superstition is the people; and arguments are fitted to
practice, in a reverse order."
[Sir Francis Bacon "Of Superstition"]
-------
"The trinitarian believes a virgin to be
the mother of a son who is her maker."
[Sir Francis Bacon, quoted in "2000 Years of
Disbelief, Famous People with the Courage to
Doubt", by James A. Haught, Prometheus Books, 1996]
-------
"For ten centuries Christianity, armed with the omnipotence of the
Church
and State and opposed by no competition, was able to deprave, debase,
and
falsify the mind of Europe. It had no competitors, because outside the
Church there was neither thinkers nor educated persons. It along
taught,
it alone spoke and wrote, it alone taught."
[Mikhail Bakunin, "Church and State", 1872, p. 78]
-------
"The very concept of sin comes from the bible. Christianity offers to
solve a problem of its own making! Would you be thankful to a person
who cut you with a knife in order to sell you a bandage?"
[Dan Barker, "Losing Faith in Faith"]
-------
"If the Bible had said that Jonah swallowed the whale, I would believe
it."
[William Jennings Bryan]
-------
"Armies of Bible scholars and theologians have for centuries
found respected employment devising artful explanations of
the Bible often not really meaning what it says."
[J.S. Bullion, Jr., U.S. freethinker, writer
-------
"Why has a religious turn of mind always a
tendancy to narrow and harden the heart?"
[Robert Burns]
-------
"The more I study religions the more I am convinced
that man never worshipped anything but himself"
[Sir Richard F. Burton]
-------
"People in general are equally horrified at hearing the
Christian religion doubted, and at seeing it practiced."
[Samuel Butler (1835-1902), English author.
Samuel Butler's Notebooks (1951, p. 310)]
-------
"If God wants us to do a thing, He should make his wishes
sufficiently clear. Sensible people will wait till He
has done this before paying much attention to Him."
[Samuel Butler]
-------
"I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a
Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity
to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit
priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist."
[Albert Einstein to Guy H. Raner Jr, July 2, 1945,
responding to a rumor that a Jesuit priest had caused
Einstein to convert from atheism. Article by Michael
R. Gilmore in Skeptic magazine, Vol. 5, No. 2, 1997]
-------
"For that again, is what all manner of religion
essentially is: childish dependency."
[Albert Ellis]
MishtaEcks
>
Attention Fellow Christians:
Uhhh...you sent this to alt.atheism, too.
> The document below carries some very powerful ideas which can be used
> to attack the teaching of atheism
Teaching of atheism?!? There's nothing to be taught. Do you "teach" people
not to believe in invisible pink unicorns? No.
> in places where the teaching of
> Christianity is prohibited.
Did you mean like countries, or like schools?
> This document is in the Public Domain, so
> you may use it freely and without restriction. I invite you to join
> with me in spreading these ideas everywhere, by all means possible.
Please don't.
> <><
>
>
> "For Purposes Of Law, Atheism Is A Religion"
> by Bill McGinnis - Public Domain
This should be funny.
> A person's religion is the sum total of his beliefs about God and the
> supernatural.
No. Why are you just inventing definitions for terms? Your arguement then
becomes a semantic one, rather than a logic arguement.
Merriam Webster defines "religion" thusly:
Main Entry: religion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio
supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from
religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
Date: 13th century
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1)
: the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or
devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes,
beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
Now #4 we can get rid of right off the bat, because faith is not a
component of atheism, which is a lack of belief, rather than a belief in
lack.
#1 doesn't seem to apply either, so we can get rid of it.
#3, well, scrupulous conformity seems to fit christianity quite well, but
hardly atheism. Unless you object, we'll skip that one too.
#2 requires that "religious" be defined to completely negate, although
clearly atheism doesn't fit all the criteria, as atheism has no set of
beliefs or practices. So I will define it. (also from merriam-webster):
Main Entry: 1religious
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French religieus, from Latin
religiosus, from religio
Date: 13th century
1 : relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged
ultimate reality or deity <a religious person> <religious attitudes>
2 : of, relating to, or devoted to religious beliefs or observances
3 a : scrupulously and conscientiously faithful b : FERVENT, ZEALOUS
#1 is clearly the definition referenced in the first definition, and just
as clearly, atheism doesn't fit that definition. Atheism doesn't define
ultimate reality, and in fact, doesn't neccesarily take the position that
there cannot be a god, simply that since no evidence for such a being is
forthcoming, no belief can rationally be held in such a being.
> Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are the three
> "monotheistic" religions, with belief in one God, Creator of the
> universe.
>
> Some other religions are "polytheistic," with belief in many ("poly")
> gods, each with different functions.
>
> Atheism is the religion whose belief about God is that there is no
> God.
Yet another incorrect definition which renders your arguement moot. This
is what is called a "strawman" arguement. Restate your opponents views in
a flawed manner, knock down the opponents views using the flaws you
inserted, and claim victory.
Atheism isn't the belief in lack of god, it is the lack of belief in god.
For instance, newborn babies are atheists, since they have no belief in
god.
> "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."
> (Psalms 14:1a KJV)
>
>
> Some atheists, for their own political reasons, assert that atheism is
> not a religion but instead is the total absence of religion.
Another flaw. Atheism can co-exist with some religions, such as buddhism,
which doesn't require a belief in god. Atheism isn't neccesarily the total
absence of religion. It is, by definition, only one thing: the absence of
belief in any gods.
> This
> allows them to spread their atheistic beliefs freely in societies
> which insist on separation of "church and state."
Yes, we're such a well organized group, we have annual atheist conventions
where we sit around and plot about how to take over the world.
Really now, lets be serious. I'm a guy, not a lot different than you or
anyone else reading this, except for one thing, I don't believe in god.
This whole conspiracy theory thing is getting tired. Suddenly anyone who
disagrees with you or is different is in some sort of conspiracy.
> But this is like saying that "black," (which physicists define as the
> total absence of color) is not a color.
What you're saying is, to use a similar (and more correct) analogy,
like insisting that "bald" is a hair color.
> The car I drive is a big, old
> Chevrolet, whose color is black. In common practice throughout the
> world, "black" is understood to be a color, despite the technical
> definition of the physicists. Likewise, "atheism" is a religion,
> despite any technical definitions to the contrary.
>
> If "black" is a color, then "atheism" is a religion.
This arguement needs no rebuttal, because it is not at all supported.
> If atheism is a religion, then it must be subject to the same
> restrictions imposed by governments on other religions. In particular,
> in the United States, the teaching of atheism must be prohibited
> wherever the teaching of Christianity is prohibited.
Hahahahahaha. Now resolve this logically. Atheism, being a lack of belief
in god, must not be taught in schools, since it is a religion. However,
any belief in god is also by definition a religion, and so cannot be
taught either.
But, if we avoid the entire subject, we are essentially teaching atheism.
This is called "garbage in, garbage out". Its what happens when you use a
faulty premise, you reach a faulty conclusion.
> But where is atheism being taught? Atheism is being taught, by
> default, in all places where other religions cannot be taught,
> particularly in the public schools.
So we cannot teach religion, but we cannot fail to teach religion, because
doing so is teaching religion. So, to avoid teaching religion, we must
teach religion.
If anyone wants to nominate this guy for kook, I'll second it.
> Yours in Christ,
>
> Bill McGinnis <><
> bmc...@patriot.net
> http://www.patriot.net/users/bmcgin/ministries.html
> "Teaching The Practical Christian Life"
>
> To receive INTERNET DAILY CHAPEL each day by e-mail, please
> send your request to bmc...@patriot.net.
====
"My book is closed, I read no more. Watching the fire dance, upon the
floor..." -Syd Barrett insane|at|netset|dot|com
====
The Ghost In The Machine
>
> Attention Fellow Christians:
Uh, you do know you cross-posted this into alt.atheism.
Last I checked, we're roughly half and half.
Half atheist, half idiot. (And one guy in the corner who thinks
we're all fucking looney and tries to prove it... :-) )
>
> The document below carries some very powerful ideas which can be used
> to attack the teaching of atheism in places where the teaching of
> Christianity is prohibited. This document is in the Public Domain, so
> you may use it freely and without restriction. I invite you to join
> with me in spreading these ideas everywhere, by all means possible.
Gee, thanks. You're too kind.
>
> <><
>
>
> "For Purposes Of Law, Atheism Is A Religion"
> by Bill McGinnis - Public Domain
>
>
> A person's religion is the sum total of his beliefs about God and the
> supernatural. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are the three
> "monotheistic" religions, with belief in one God, Creator of the
> universe.
>
> Some other religions are "polytheistic," with belief in many ("poly")
> gods, each with different functions.
>
> Atheism is the religion whose belief about God is that there is no
> God.
Oops. You stepped in a mud puddle; the correct -- at least, for
the purposes of this newsgroup -- definition is that atheism
is a lack of belief in gods (shaddap, Sinister).
Besides, atheists have no meeting-places, like synagogues,
mosques, churches, or cemeteries.... :-)
>
> "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."
> (Psalms 14:1a KJV)
Ooh, a BibleQuote(tm). Is this supposed to impress me?
>
>
> Some atheists, for their own political reasons, assert that atheism is
> not a religion but instead is the total absence of religion. This
> allows them to spread their atheistic beliefs freely in societies
> which insist on separation of "church and state."
"Atheistic beliefs"?
WHAT "atheistic beliefs"?
>
> But this is like saying that "black," (which physicists define as the
> total absence of color) is not a color. The car I drive is a big, old
> Chevrolet, whose color is black. In common practice throughout the
> world, "black" is understood to be a color, despite the technical
> definition of the physicists. Likewise, "atheism" is a religion,
> despite any technical definitions to the contrary.
Um, your analogy is falling apart at the seams; I suggest you
get a new one....
>
> If "black" is a color, then "atheism" is a religion.
Whoops, it's a pile of rubble now. Try this one, it fits better:
"If atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair color."
>
> If atheism is a religion, then it must be subject to the same
> restrictions imposed by governments on other religions. In particular,
> in the United States, the teaching of atheism must be prohibited
> wherever the teaching of Christianity is prohibited.
Actually, I have no problem with that. Mind you, I'm not sure quite
how atheism would be "taught", anyway...although one can easily
make a statement or two about it in a comparative religions
curriculum, perhaps. (And that one could teach Christianity!
On Monday. Tuesday it could cover Islam, and Wednesday Buddhism.
If it's Thursday, it must be Wiccan, and Friday might be for
the various aboriginal and/or primitive religions...)
Or are you confusing the teaching of atheism with the teaching
of evolution (a fact, and a theory)? That's another kettle
of fish -- coleoacanths, if I'm spelling it correctly. :-)
>
> But where is atheism being taught? Atheism is being taught, by
> default, in all places where other religions cannot be taught,
> particularly in the public schools.
Oh, nice unsupported hanging assertion, there!
Care to back it up with some figures?
>
> Yours in Christ,
That's *disgusting*. You should remove it and wash it
immediately with soap and water! :-)
>
> Bill McGinnis <><
> bmc...@patriot.net
> http://www.patriot.net/users/bmcgin/ministries.html
> "Teaching The Practical Christian Life"
... to the Atheist Horde. :-)
>
> To receive INTERNET DAILY CHAPEL each day ...
[snip]
... simply subscribe to alt.atheism. Bleah.
----
#191, ew...@aimnet.com
Occam's Laser
[snip]
>
> "For Purposes Of Law, Atheism Is A Religion"
> by Bill McGinnis - Public Domain
>
> A person's religion is the sum total of his beliefs about God and the
> supernatural. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are the three
> "monotheistic" religions, with belief in one God, Creator of the
> universe.
>
> Some other religions are "polytheistic," with belief in many ("poly")
> gods, each with different functions.
>
> Atheism is the religion whose belief about God is that there is no
> God.
Does that mean that theism is a religion, then? Just theism, in
itself? No. People never say that they're theists, they call
themselves Catholics, or Presbyterians, or Jews, or Moslems, etc.
Everyone understands that those are religions with theism as part of
their doctrines. So, theism is *not* a religion.
Perhaps you can argue that atheism might potentially be part of a
doctrine of a religion, perhaps you can argue that there are "atheistic"
religions, and I might even agree with you, but atheism is *not* a
religion. And there's not even any argument with this.
> But where is atheism being taught? Atheism is being taught, by
> default, in all places where other religions cannot be taught,
> particularly in the public schools.
I went to Catholic schools. I remember we had daily religion classes in
which we graded. We had daily Mass. We were recruited as altar boys
and as choir boys and girls. We had priests, nuns and brothers teaching
us in full vestments. We started each class with prayers.
*That* was religious teaching. Religion, being taught by default? HA!!
In public schools nothing like that is present. Is the complete absence
of anything approaching a religion your evidence that religion is being
taught?
Just here,
Oc!!
Cyberia
Bill, your ignorance is showing again.
Atheism is not "a belief about god" as black is a color, as you have
asserted.
Atheism is as much a "belief about god" as *transparent* is a color.
Transparent also describes your weak attempt at furthering your political
agenda with such lies.
Transparent is not a color, atheism is not a religion, and none of your
pontificating and unsupported assertions will change this.
We atheists do not choose to adopt *your* religion. This intelligent choice
does not constitute a religion, it is the rejection of religion.
Regardless of your frenetic conclusions, belief in the supernatural and god
should not be taught in schools. If you want your children to be
superstitious, that is your business, teach them at home or setup your own
private institutions for this. My tax dollars will not be spent to
perpetuate your myths.
--
SeeYa !
------------
Jim
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
Hello... Is this thing on ?
Bill McGinnis wrote in message ...
>
> Attention Fellow Christians:
>
>
> Atheism is the religion whose belief about God is that there is no
> God.
>
Right, and Bill McGinnis did not just make a ridiculous and unsupported
assertion (again)...
Angelico
wrote:
>A person's religion is the sum total of his beliefs about God and the
>supernatural.
>Atheism is the religion whose belief about God is that there is no
>God.
Are these your "technical" definitions?
> But this is like saying that "black," (which physicists define as
the
> total absence of color) is not a color. The car I drive is a big,
old
> Chevrolet, whose color is black. In common practice throughout
the
> world, "black" is understood to be a color, despite the technical
> definition of the physicists. Likewise, "atheism" is a religion,
> despite any technical definitions to the contrary.
>
Likewise, if black is a color despite the technical definition,
atheism isn't a religion despite the "technical" definition.
Couldn't you see this obvious contradiction while you were typing it?
Are _these_ your "powerful ideas to destroy atheism"? You're a deeper
moron than I thought.
Don't worry Groove, we know he's not in your field. The fundie flavor
of theist has its own field, opposed to yours and to ours.
Angel Arnal
Valencia, España
http://www.teleline.es/personal/angelarn/
aa #1443
EAC Chairperson for Bible Translation Mess-up
Freelance translators needed. No experience required.
Angelico
[snip]
What it
>means is that the government (be it local, state or federal) cannot
establish
>or endorse any particular religion. It basically means that all
governments
>have to keep pretty silent on the issue.....whether that be the
existance or
>non-existance of god(s).
That's the point! A government _can't_ force any religion and _can't_
force atheism. But they're scared of the possibility to choose. What
if we don't choose what they want?
[snip]
>Hey, if you want your kids to be stupid.....that's just fine, send
them to
>christian school so they don't have to learn about the real world.
That's
>not a goal I have for my child.
Right. I want mine with their feet on ground. If they want to teach
biblical nonsense, well, go for it, but not with my money. Everyone
must pay his own vices.
Angelico
wrote:
>> This document is in the Public Domain, so
>> you may use it freely and without restriction. I invite you to
join
>> with me in spreading these ideas everywhere, by all means
possible.
>
>Please don't.
>
Why not? Perhaps they're comedians or clowns.
Djehuti Sundaka
Bill McGinnis wrote:
> Attention Fellow Christians:
Amazing how none of your fellow Xristians have yet to respond to this post.
>
>
> The document below carries some very powerful ideas which can be used
> to attack the teaching of atheism in places where the teaching of
> Christianity is prohibited. This document is in the Public Domain, so
> you may use it freely and without restriction. I invite you to join
> with me in spreading these ideas everywhere, by all means possible.
Whoa, aren't we high on ourselves!
>
>
> <><
>
>
> "For Purposes Of Law, Atheism Is A Religion"
> by Bill McGinnis - Public Domain
>
> A person's religion is the sum total of his beliefs about God and the
> supernatural.
Wrong. A person's religion is their devotion to a worldview regardless of
any gods.
> Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are the three
> "monotheistic" religions, with belief in one God, Creator of the
> universe.
Zarathustra's religion, Judaism, and Islam are three (not 'the') monotheistic
religions. Trinitarian Xristianity is polytheism which tries to redefine the
concept of 'god' from being a single person to being a single 'substance' in
an attempt to avoid the valid charge of polytheism.
>
>
> Some other religions are "polytheistic," with belief in many ("poly")
> gods, each with different functions.
Like Xristianity's father, son, and holy spirit gods!
>
>
> Atheism is the religion whose belief about God is that there is no
> God.
Atheism has no belief about god just as it has no belief about Peter
Cottontail. Not believing in things has never constituted the premise for
religion.
>
>
> "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."
> (Psalms 14:1a KJV)
"Where are the gods of Hamath and Arpad? Where are the gods of Sepharvaim,
Hena, Ivvah? Have they delivered Samaria from my hand?"(2Kings 18:34)
"How long Yhwh, will you hide yourself forever?"
(Psalm 89:46)
"Where are your former lovingkindness Yhwh, which you swore to David in your
faithfulness?"
(Psalm 89:49)
"Where is the promise of his coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all
continues just as it was from the beginning."
(2Peter 3:4)
>
>
>
> Some atheists, for their own political reasons, assert that atheism is
> not a religion but instead is the total absence of religion. This
> allows them to spread their atheistic beliefs freely in societies
> which insist on separation of "church and state."
Atheism is neither a religion nor a lack of religion.
>
>
> But this is like saying that "black," (which physicists define as the
> total absence of color) is not a color. The car I drive is a big, old
> Chevrolet, whose color is black. In common practice throughout the
> world, "black" is understood to be a color, despite the technical
> definition of the physicists. Likewise, "atheism" is a religion,
> despite any technical definitions to the contrary.
An example for one case does not validate an assertion for another. This
isn't Hindu philosophy.
>
>
> If "black" is a color, then "atheism" is a religion.
By the same lack of reasoning, if "black" is a color, then Xristianity is
devil worship.
>
>
> If atheism is a religion, then it must be subject to the same
> restrictions imposed by governments on other religions. In particular,
> in the United States, the teaching of atheism must be prohibited
> wherever the teaching of Christianity is prohibited.
But atheism is not a religion and the U.S. has never taught it. As a matter
of fact, it was the ancient Xristians who were charged as being atheists.
Thus, XRISTIANITY IS ATHEISM and is indeed prohibited from being taught in
public schools (be careful of what you wish for, you already have it!)
>
>
> But where is atheism being taught? Atheism is being taught, by
> default, in all places where other religions cannot be taught,
> particularly in the public schools.
You've just equated atheism to education. By default, this would make theism
ignorance.
>
>
> Yours in Christ,
>
> Bill McGinnis <><
> bmc...@patriot.net
> http://www.patriot.net/users/bmcgin/ministries.html
> "Teaching The Practical Christian Life"
>