Where is Fred Glaysher?
Sock-Puppet'ullah
It would appear the Haifan Bahaim establishment has done something to
Frederick Glaysher. I presented the following query on September 22nd
(see link above), and one of the immediate responses from the most
well known paid hack of the Haifan Bahai establishment was the
following:
--
Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai, alt.religion.bahai,
soc.culture.iranian, talk.religion.misc
From: PaulHammond <pahamm...@onetel.net.uk>
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:10:34 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Tues, Sep 23 2008 7:10 am
Subject: Re: Fred Glaysher
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On 22 Sep, 06:28, "Sock-Puppet'ullah" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is a serious query:
> Note if anything has happened to Frederick Glaysher, the Haifan Bahaim
> establishment will be held directly responsible.
> Wahid Azal
Yeah! We killed him, and buried him in a shallow grave!
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAH!
We're EVIL!
(Sorry, just watched "Bedazzled" again the other day - impressed by
Peter Cook's take on the Devil)
Paul
(btw - if you don't give in now, we'll send a computer virus that will
kill your cat and turn your milk sour)
--
Please be advised that anything that has happened to Fred Glaysher
would be at the direct, criminal instigation of the Haifan Bahai
establishment, which in the United States in headquartered in
Wilmette, Illinois. This organization is capable of any/all criminal
act(s), including murder and assassination of dissidents and political
opponents.
W
Viv
> http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/t...
If you believe, or have reason to believe, a crime as been committed
you have a responsibility to report it to the appropriate authorities.
Have you done so?
Viv.
Sock-Puppet'ullah
--
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAH!
We're EVIL!
Paul
--
establishment, which in the United States is headquartered in
Viv
No response to my query about whether if you really believe a crime
has been committed you have reported it.
That is in itself an answer to the question.
You know perfectly well that (a) that Paul was making a sarcastic
response to your conspiracy theory nonsense and that (b) he isn't a
Baha'i anyway, you just make out he's a paid Baha'i agent as part of
your smear campaign against him. You denounce everybody who disagrees
with you as a paid Baha'i agent!
Thank you for posting this to several lists so that the transparency
of your behaviour can be made even better known.
Viv.
Shahriar
perhaps he's found something better to do than only spamming TRB. If you are
really worried for him why not give him a call?
http://www.fglaysher.com/fredglaysher/ although, I am not sure he would talk
with you without precondition and the presence of his lawyer.
"Sock-Puppet'ullah" <wahid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cffa5e2d-8229-4d04...@e17g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Pacifist
> http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/t...
>
What do you reckon to this?
Finnegan's Wake
"Pacifist" <mushr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c78ace69-86b0-4d16...@l62g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> Please be advised that anything that has happened to Fred Glaysher
> would be at the direct, criminal instigation of the Haifan Bahai
> establishment, which in the United States in headquartered in
> Wilmette, Illinois. This organization is capable of any/all criminal
> act(s), including murder and assassination of dissidents and political
> opponents.
>
> W
What do you reckon to this?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=l-6iT6jl9HQ&feature=related
Some frilly who can't play a bodhran ... but it sure ain't Fred!
Shahriar
"Finnegan's Wake" <grim_NOSPA...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:4K2dnZa-7caGT37V...@bt.com...
Pacifist was at least one layer beneath the surface. guess that wont ring a
bell!
Finnegan's Wake
"Shahriar" <frei...@hotml.but> wrote in message
news:gc0nql$5jv$1...@aioe.org...
But it might strike a bodhran ... has it been made from a part of your hide?
The experts assure me that the sweetest sounding bodhrans are made from
goatskins ... not that anybody would call or mistake you for An Poc Ar Buile
(The Mad Puck Goat).
You'll catch a good glimpse during this video of a bodhran being played: -
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0R_tnu9G0TM&feature=related
Also here: -
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=38s4mVY2b_Y
>
Finnegan's Wake
And as a PS
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3ChbigufBC8
This is what a real expert can do .....
Shahriar
>>
>> But it might strike a bodhran ... has it been made from a part of your
>> hide? The experts assure me that the sweetest sounding bodhrans are made
>> from goatskins ... not that anybody would call or mistake you for An Poc
>> Ar Buile (The Mad Puck Goat).
>>
>> You'll catch a good glimpse during this video of a bodhran being
>> played: -
>>
>> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0R_tnu9G0TM&feature=related
>>
>> Also here: -
>> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=38s4mVY2b_Y
>>>
>>
>>
>
> And as a PS
>
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3ChbigufBC8
>
> This is what a real expert can do .....
if your real expert dares, let him compete with these masters.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=00Rh5WeKmes
this one for real http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YkkdHXTwI_c
and this one http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fW6YCWDUgso
though, Fred was real annoying and did spam a lot but I think this is a bit
too much jubilation for his disappearance, isn't?
Finnegan's Wake
"Shahriar" <frei...@hotml.but> wrote in message
>> And as a PS
>>
>> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3ChbigufBC8
>>
>> This is what a real expert can do .....
>
> if your real expert dares, let him compete with these masters.
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=00Rh5WeKmes
Nice ... but a little sad ... street urchins playing for their supper??
>
> this one for real http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YkkdHXTwI_c
This guy is good!!!!!!! Mind you, he might do better if he had a decent
bodhran :-)
If you're worried about the pronunciation - in Irish a letter followed by an
aitch, as here in "dh" is silent. Thus it is (loosely) pronounced "
bow-ran"
> and this one http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fW6YCWDUgso
I really don't like the squeeze box ... not after the uilleann pipes ... or
even the fiddle!
I think this trumps all percussion: -
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IrP9anxy0pY&feature=related
Celtic music is, without doubt, the best in the world and the Irish stuff
is, obviously and therefore, the best of the best. Not that I'm biased in
anyway ... perish the thought!
> though, Fred was real annoying and did spam a lot but I think this is a
> bit too much jubilation for his disappearance, isn't?
It's not jubilation. Fred hasn't been around for awhile ... and that's
Fred's business not for Mimikins to attempt to score cheap points or to
demonstrate, once again, that he has the sense of humour of toilet paper
hanging up to dry in the wind ... having already been perforated by the wind
... if you get my drift ... though I'd prefer to waft it towards a specimen
in Queensland.
Shahriar
Surly the distance b/w Scottsville and queensville is but a drift sensed and
observed by both.
though the fiddle is good but what's up with that move? appears they've been
served an iron stuff upward and keep a fire-ant in their pants to bite their
tonsil which they politely trying to brush off with abrupt paw shaking.
but this one is a mastery of exquisite elegance, a stirrer of inner most, a
platform to tranquility, and the unity of all harmonious excellence of the
vast universe that brings forth exhilarating outpour of elevated spirit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj13KU3SAvE
needless to say, we'd served them plenty of culture and music since 150BC
when first ambassadorial relation established. Oh, Fred if yee but knew it!
PaulHammond
>
> Please be advised that anything that has happened to Fred Glaysher
> would be at the direct, criminal instigation of the Haifan Bahai
> establishment, which in the United States is headquartered in
> Wilmette, Illinois. This organization is capable of any/all criminal
> act(s), including murder and assassination of dissidents and political
> opponents.
>
> W
And how would you have found out something like that?
Surely, if you know all about Wilmette Black Ops it must be because
you've been working for them yourself!
Or is it just your penchant for talking out of your arse as per?
Paul
Finnegan's Wake
"Shahriar" <frei...@hotml.but> wrote in message
>
>> It's not jubilation. Fred hasn't been around for awhile ... and that's
>> Fred's business not for Mimikins to attempt to score cheap points or to
>> demonstrate, once again, that he has the sense of humour of toilet paper
>> hanging up to dry in the wind ... having already been perforated by the
>> wind ... if you get my drift ... though I'd prefer to waft it towards a
>> specimen in Queensland.
>
> Surly the distance b/w Scottsville and queensville is but a drift sensed
> and observed by both.
I doubt it. Mimikins is far too extreme for Fred's taste ... in mine
opinion!
> though the fiddle is good but what's up with that move? appears they've
> been served an iron stuff upward and keep a fire-ant in their pants to
> bite their tonsil which they politely trying to brush off with abrupt paw
> shaking.
I thought you'd be impressed ... along with the rest of the world!
Now try this: -
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EyWH36xoTnQ
> but this one is a mastery of exquisite elegance, a stirrer of inner most,
> a platform to tranquility, and the unity of all harmonious excellence of
> the vast universe that brings forth exhilarating outpour of elevated
> spirit.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj13KU3SAvE
Are you not Iranian ... and you have to go as far afield as China to find
some music that is on a par with the Irish brand?
And here is Chinese music returning to its Celtic roots: -
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=38s4mVY2b_Y
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oYHswIhCTmc&feature=related
Shahriar
>
> "Shahriar" <frei...@hotml.but> wrote in message
> news:gc2sor$sk5$1...@aioe.org...
>>
>>> It's not jubilation. Fred hasn't been around for awhile ... and that's
>>> Fred's business not for Mimikins to attempt to score cheap points or to
>>> demonstrate, once again, that he has the sense of humour of toilet paper
>>> hanging up to dry in the wind ... having already been perforated by the
>>> wind ... if you get my drift ... though I'd prefer to waft it towards a
>>> specimen in Queensland.
>>
>> Surly the distance b/w Scottsville and queensville is but a drift sensed
>> and observed by both.
>
> I doubt it. Mimikins is far too extreme for Fred's taste ... in mine
> opinion!
>
>
>> though the fiddle is good but what's up with that move? appears they've
>> been served an iron stuff upward and keep a fire-ant in their pants to
>> bite their tonsil which they politely trying to brush off with abrupt paw
>> shaking.
>
> I thought you'd be impressed ... along with the rest of the world!
I was impressed, never had seen fire-ants could have such mind puzzling
effect.
> Now try this: -
>
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EyWH36xoTnQ
>
>> but this one is a mastery of exquisite elegance, a stirrer of inner most,
>> a platform to tranquility, and the unity of all harmonious excellence of
>> the vast universe that brings forth exhilarating outpour of elevated
>> spirit.
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj13KU3SAvE
>
> Are you not Iranian ... and you have to go as far afield as China to find
> some music that is on a par with the Irish brand?
Of course I am. but original music of Iran had been banned for the last 1000
years. thus, its development was halted and gradually lost. What we know now
as traditional Iranian music is something that took shape into its current
form during the last 200 years, very different from what we could have heard
before or about year 700 AD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSDeVxGHxaU
But the Chinese took good care of what Iranians had handed them on cultural
bases. All the instruments you saw in my previously posted video can be
considered pre-Islamic Iranian. We know this by ways of archeology. On the
second point: no, Chinese music could not be influenced by Irish music,
primarily because well over a thousand years into formation of China, as a
unified state, Ira(ish) had no existence. On the contrary, you can see how
the Ira(ish) music could've gotten much influence from central Asia (which
we know has given birth to all other civilizations to the east and west).
The following video shows how striking close, now days, Irish music is
played in Tuvan notes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeP4ilZGWro
To appreciate art I am including the following piece. Enjoy. Although the
rumor says that Fred is fine and is probably reshaping his 9 bahai
denomination and preparing them for another 2006 convocation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVyyhHFKI8E
> And here is Chinese music returning to its Celtic roots: -
>
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=38s4mVY2b_Y
>
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oYHswIhCTmc&feature=related
>
Sock-Puppet'ullah
Sock-Puppet'ullah
> On 1 Oct, 10:25, "Sock-Puppet'ullah" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Please be advised that anything that has happened to Fred Glaysher
> > would be at the direct, criminal instigation of the Haifan Bahai
> > establishment, which in the United States is headquartered in
> > Wilmette, Illinois. This organization is capable of any/all criminal
> > act(s), including murder and assassination of dissidents and political
> > opponents.
>
> > W
>
> And how would you have found out something like that?
>
> Surely, if you know all about Wilmette Black Ops it must be because
> you've been working for them yourself!
This coming from:
Death to Haifan Bahaism
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=l-6iT6jl9HQ&feature=related
I think it is typical Bahaim gratuitousness, and it is also typically
stupid - as everything else they put on youtube. Why, do you know this
person? Taking a Daf' and changing the lyrics of a well-known Sufi
hymn with Bahaim words does not make you a Sufi. The Haifan Bahaim
desperately try to pretend they love Iran when their policies are
designed towards its diametrical opposite - esp. where authentic
Iranian spirituality is concerned. Many of the Iranians amongst them
genuinely do however love Iran - although they are existentially
confused. But the establishment that represents them is a sworn enemy
of all aspects of Iranian culture, nativity and spirituality.
W
Death to Haifan Bahaism
> Of course I am. but original music of Iran had been banned for the last 1000
> years.
What a load of typical bahaim Westoxicated ahistorical crap! Music
evolves, and despite the issue of the illicitness of ghina/music in
Islam, music thrived throughout the entire Islamic period up to the
present in Iran. Idiot, culturally rootless anti-Iranian - i.e. self-
hating anti-Iranian parasites - like you paint a history of the arts
in Iran as if nothing happened for 14 hundred years. A lot happened in
14 hundred years one of which was the systematization of a theory of
music by Al-Farabi:
http://www.islamonline.net/english/Science/2002/01/article20.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Farabi
>thus, its development was halted and gradually lost.
This is gross historical revisionism according to your MOSAD masters,
of course; the same ones, like Moshe Sharon, who deny that Husayn 'Ali
has remaining relatives in Palestine. It is no wonder that within Iran
more and more you people are universally hated precisely because of
the sort of historical lies you perpetrate in order to ingratiate
yourselves to your white, racist Anglo-European slave-masters
W
Shahriar
"Death to Haifan Bahaism" <deathto...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a614d8fe-341e-4c30...@p10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 4, 6:13 am, "Shahriar" <frein...@hotml.but> wrote:
>
>> Of course I am. but original music of Iran had been banned for the last
>> 1000
>> years.
>
> What a load of typical bahaim Westoxicated ahistorical crap! Music
> evolves, and despite the issue of the illicitness of ghina/music in
> Islam, music thrived throughout the entire Islamic period up to the
> present in Iran. Idiot, culturally rootless anti-Iranian - i.e. self-
> hating anti-Iranian parasites - like you paint a history of the arts
> in Iran as if nothing happened for 14 hundred years. A lot happened in
> 14 hundred years one of which was the systematization of a theory of
> music by Al-Farabi:
> http://www.islamonline.net/english/Science/2002/01/article20.shtml
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Farabi
>
Ay Ablah (=idiot in Arabic, because you are referencing Iranian music via an
Arab-Islamic web site), there is no Farabi music, find me one if you could.
What they used to play before Arab invasion of Iran had been more complex
and faqr superior to its latter forms related to us in 20th century era.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sassanid_music
"Persian musicians and dancers were gifted to the court of Chinese emperors
by Sassanid kings, implying the high reputation and virtuosity of Persian
musicians and dancers in that era."
It is also related to us that once the Indian king requested musician from
the Sassanid king and was sent 40 thousand musicians (perhaps a bit of
exaggeration). Even in today's Iran, if you put your fingers together you
may hardly find 40 thousand musicians. Just get the magnitude, the deference
is huge in quality and quantity. while Chinese and Indians went on
developing their music, we struggled to hold some traces of it.
Ay Olagh (=jack ass, because you're stubborn over pointless arguments) I bit
you cant even fart in tone, left alone playing or knowing any music. You
were still sucking your thumb when your daddy dragged you out of Iran. Your
hate for yourself, the culture and the land is instrumental in your moronic
personality outburst. get a life khak-bar-sar (=abased and miserable).
To be fair, the subject of this thread been changed to relate to Fred's
disappearance.
%^%$##$@!
"Shahriar" <frei...@hotml.but> wrote in message
> Ay Ablah (=idiot in Arabic, because you are referencing Iranian music via
> an Arab-Islamic web site), there is no Farabi music,
Sag bahai-i-khod forush, avvalan, ablah jadd o abad-i-vatan o farhang
forusheteh. Second, what do you mean there is no al-Farabi music? Are you
crazy, or is this the kind of drivel they teach you in RUHI Institutes??
This man standarized musical notation. A transmitted textual tradition of
musical theory was developed from that point onwards, and from this
Tradition. It was these Iranian *ISLAMIC* philosophers and scientists and
their works that veritably allowed the medieval West (among other things
they owe to this Tradition and culture) to develop the theories and
tradition which they did. You idiots deliberately attempt to brush over such
things and revise history and whitewash it because it does not accord with
your present agenda of "cultural cleansing" based on your deep hatred of
Iran and its unique Islamic heritage.
> What they used to play before Arab invasion of Iran
And you have direct textual evidence of musical theory during the Sassanian
period, do you? Let's see it. Without a doubt, you are either a Bahaim of
Jewish background or Zoroastrian background - only these two bahaim
sub-cultures have the kind of chip on their shoulders regarding the past
1400 years as you do.
>had been more complex and faqr superior to its latter forms related to us
>in 20th century era. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sassanid_music
This article says f-all and offers no evidence or analysis beyond
platitudes. It must have been written by Jeff3000, Mike Russell or Cunado19
of the IT committee on wikipedia.
<snip>
MARG BAR FARHANG FORUSHAN-I-KHA'EN!
W
Finnegan's Wake
"Shahriar" <frei...@hotml.but> wrote in message
>>> though the fiddle is good but what's up with that move? appears they've
>>> been served an iron stuff upward and keep a fire-ant in their pants to
>>> bite their tonsil which they politely trying to brush off with abrupt
>>> paw
>>> shaking.
>>
>> I thought you'd be impressed ... along with the rest of the world!
>
> I was impressed, never had seen fire-ants could have such mind puzzling
> effect.
That is the sort of supercilious pretentious remark that I particularly
associate with BIGS of Iranian origin. Given what you say, below, that Iran
lost its musical heritage or failed to nourish it, I can understand the
antipathy they show towards countries that have, not only maintained and
developed their music but shared it with the world at large. It's called
"envy." What you describe as "fire-ants" is the vitality and joie de vivre
of people playing and dancing to great music. This is music of the people -
it sustained a nation through tribulation; it endures and prospers because
it is the mark of the nation and it's damned good. Methinks you have
neither the energy nor the ability to enjoy yourself in such a fashion.
> Of course I am. but original music of Iran had been banned for the last
> 1000 years. thus, its development was halted and gradually lost. What we
> know now as traditional Iranian music is something that took shape into
> its current form during the last 200 years, very different from what we
> could have heard before or about year 700 AD.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSDeVxGHxaU
Cobblers! If it was worth saving you'd have saved it. We did ... even
though the Saxons did their utmost to destroy it. And we got our ultimate
revenge ... we let them have some of our best tunes.
This video BTW is strong on rhythmn but sadly deficient in tune. Now you got
to have a good tune before music can be popular! Do these guys have to look
like robots ... don't they enjoy playing as much as the guys here: -
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XQaJq-COBhc&feature=related
> But the Chinese took good care of what Iranians had handed them on
> cultural bases. All the instruments you saw in my previously posted video
> can be considered pre-Islamic Iranian. We know this by ways of archeology.
I do hope the Chinese are suitably grateful that you gave them your music as
.... doubtless they couldn't possibly have developed their own. Strewth!
How condescending can you get? Even the Anglo-Saxons developed their own
distinctive music and, as any Irishman will tell you, they're no match for
us.
On the
> second point: no, Chinese music could not be influenced by Irish music,
> primarily because well over a thousand years into formation of China, as a
> unified state, Ira(ish) had no existence. On the contrary, you can see how
> the Ira(ish) music could've gotten much influence from central Asia (which
> we know has given birth to all other civilizations to the east and west).
Chinese music is much more akin to Irish music than your Iranian example is
(as I have already illustrated). Irish music is quite distinct from European
music - it derives from a different and separate culture. Its closest cousin
in Europe is the music of Brittany and Galicia (France and Spain) and
Scotland. These are Celtic areas and, I believe, genetic studies indicate
the Celts came from the South rather than the East of the great northern
hemishere's landmass - we're not really indo-european in origin. Ireland's
civilisation extends back into pre-history - though the first written
records date from the 6th Century CE. Archaeology and the oral tradition
indicates a strong history.
This tune is Breton: -
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zkYBC0rJzf4
but could just as easily be Irish.
This video link shows the fusion of Irish and Galician - note, once again,
the strong tune and the real enjoyment of musicians and audience: -
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ1ynTMUj0c
You could usefully compare this Irish slow air to your Iranian example to
again note that despite the plaintive tone of what is effectively a lament,
the tune is clear and full - it needs no rhythmic accompaniment.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hzh5uq8rkN0
Irish music has an ability to travel as the history of the more recent
centuries proves. Go to America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand or anywhere
the Irish have settled and you will find their music, existing on its own
and/or assimilated into that of the host country. I don't know if it
travelled to China in the distant past or if Chinese music travelled here.
Chinese and Irish music certainly display an affinity and share certain
charecteristics which is partly reflected in your Tuvan examples.
This music is however stylistically distinct from the Iranian example you
posted so I suspect that Chinese music owes nothing of substance to Iranian
influence. In other words the Chinese developed their own music and it is
related more to the music of the Celts than the Persians. If China is the
origin then you guys got left out ... and it shows ... and we benefited,
developing it to an art form that is universally recognised and, most
important of all, enjoyed!
> The following video shows how striking close, now days, Irish music is
> played in Tuvan notes.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeP4ilZGWro
I think the Tuvan throat singing, though technically impressive, is an
acquired taste but so is the Irish lilting, mouth music and 'sean nos' (lit.
old style) singing and there's not a thing wrong with it for that.
I think this is your song: -
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zAGhiW3qQvQ&feature=related
This link is in Irish also - the song tradition developed in both Irish and
English. The title translates: - The Twisting of the Rope.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=al9-3mW6zw8&feature=related
Sock-Puppet'ullah
superiority you will get from such ignorant racists, as Dermod Ryder,
when you do not value what you have, Shahriar khareh! A culturally
impoverished Irishman lectures you below.
Khaak bar saret!
W
On Oct 7, 1:21 am, "Finnegan's Wake"
<grim_NOSPAMreaper_...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> "Shahriar" <frein...@hotml.but> wrote in message
> I think this is your song: -http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zAGhiW3qQvQ&feature=related
Finnegan's Wake
> This is the kind of response and attitude of disdain and cultural
> superiority you will get from such ignorant racists, as Dermod Ryder,
> when you do not value what you have, Shahriar khareh! A culturally
> impoverished Irishman lectures you below.
And this comes from a Queenslander who told me he loved Irish music. Is he
culturally impoverished?
Climb off your high horse, dearie, and note anything in my post that is
inaccurate. The disdain and cultural superiority is all yours and your
compatriot, Shahriar's. You can do no other than snarl at any who disagree
with you and your compatriot is of the view that Iran abandoned its music
culture to the Chinese. You disputed that and I would tend to favour your
position in that - it would seem to be that any nation would succour and
nourish its cultural traditions as an essential part of maintaining its
identity ... just as the Irish did. It's an observation, not an expression
of superiority.
I criticised the example he gave of Iranian music on the grounds that it, to
my ear, lacked a strong tune which is a hallmark of Irish music for many
reasons not unassociated with its history. I noted that the Irish musical
heritage and tradition is markedly different to that of the major European
countries and I rely on expert evidence for that opinion. I noted that the
Celts are genetically different in origin to the other European races which
difference, being reflected in culture, may account for the separate and
distinct musical style. I noted that Irish music, in particular has
travelled widely, formerly in the tradition and latterly on a commercial
basis. Is the Queensland sage going to seriously argue that such songs as
"the Wild Colonial Boy" or "Van Dieman's Land" are not of Irish provenance
given also that they are widespread in the British Isles as a whole? Is he
going to argue that the music of the Appalachians is not Irish in origin,
given the large number of tunes common to both areas and that the traffic in
human beings was largely one-way? Given that one of the first major
collections of Irish dance was made (and published) in Chicago, is he going
to argue in his own particularly illogical fashion, that it is a complete
forgery and misrepresentation of fact and not at all supportive of a
proposition that the Irish brought their music to America? Will he argue
that "The Princess Royal" is an English tune given its earliest source is
17th Century Ireland? Does he actually know enough to label me as
"culturally impoverished?" Or perhaps he regards any non-Iranian as
culturally impoverished on the grounds that being non-Iranian they are ...
culturally impoverished
I noted Shahriar's to be "the sort of supercilious pretentious remark that I
particularly associate with BIGS of Iranian origin". This arose of the
proclivity of mainly Iranian BIGs, resident in this country, at their
"proclamation" events to feature every form of music possible ... except the
traditional music of this country. It was looked down upon as the music, not
of the elite (of which they were the dominant part) but of the mere proles
... "the great unwashed." Traditional music is the music of the people ...
were it otherwise it would not survive or flourish. And, strange to note,
without it the so-called classical composers would have to entirely rely on
their own abilities. O'Riada, in Ireland, Vaughan-Williams, in England,
drew from and relied heavily on the folk tradition for their melodies. They
acknowledged that however and both contributed to the preservation and
development of the music of the people whilst presenting it in art form to
the hoi polloi.
Poor old Miminkins has associated himself with the sort of disdain and
cultural superiority that one gets from ignorant racists.
>
> Khaak bar saret!
An bhfuil tu ag iompar clainne?
PaulHammond
Finnegan's Wake wrote:
>Or perhaps he regards any non-Iranian as
> culturally impoverished on the grounds that being non-Iranian they are ...
> culturally impoverished
>
This is about as complex an argument as Nima's brain can handle - so I
suspect this is his argument.
Really, he didn't do anything except repost your last one with the
word "he's RACIST because he's not Iranian" appended to the front of
it.
How subtle!
> ... "the great unwashed." Traditional music is the music of the people ...
> were it otherwise it would not survive or flourish. And, strange to note,
> without it the so-called classical composers would have to entirely rely on
> their own abilities. O'Riada, in Ireland, Vaughan-Williams, in England,
> drew from and relied heavily on the folk tradition for their melodies.
Bela Bartok in Hungary!
Sock-Puppet'ullah
<grim_NOSPAMreaper_...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> "Sock-Puppet'ullah" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:979d8762-b1d8-47fc...@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>
> > This is the kind of response and attitude of disdain and cultural
> > superiority you will get from such ignorant racists, as Dermod Ryder,
> > when you do not value what you have, Shahriar khareh! A culturally
> > impoverished Irishman lectures you below.
>
> And this comes from a Queenslander who told me he loved Irish music.
I told you I liked traditional Celtic music - which your modern Irish
(including folk Irish) clearly is not - and that I enjoyed the Pogues
back in the '80s. I never told you I loved your tripe. You assumed.
>I criticised the example he gave of Iranian music on the grounds that it, to
>my ear, lacked a strong tune which is a hallmark of Irish music for many
>reasons not unassociated with its history.
You know nothing about Iranian music, its various styles, genres,
theories, histories, regional and ethnic differences, etc. In short
you know nothing about either this or anything else having to do with
the people or culture of Iran. You're a white racist, provincial, turn-
coat twat trying to ingratiate yourself to your English master and
leash-holder, and one who hasn't even set foot out of Britain in over
30+ years. WTF do you know? WTF does your opinion even matter here?!
<BS snipped>
W
Sock-Puppet'ullah
> http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/t...
>
> Frederick Glaysher. I presented the following query on September 22nd
> (see link above), and one of the immediate responses from the most
> well known paid hack of the Haifan Bahai establishment was the
> following:
>
> --
>
> soc.culture.iranian, talk.religion.misc
> From: PaulHammond <pahamm...@onetel.net.uk>
> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:10:34 -0700 (PDT)
> Local: Tues, Sep 23 2008 7:10 am
> Subject: Re: Fred Glaysher
> Reply | Reply to author | Forward | Print | Individual message | Show
> original | Report this message | Find messages by this author
> On 22 Sep, 06:28, "Sock-Puppet'ullah" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This is a serious query:
> > Note if anything has happened to Frederick Glaysher, the Haifan Bahaim
> > establishment will be held directly responsible.
> > Wahid Azal
>
> Yeah! We killed him, and buried him in a shallow grave!
>
> MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAH!
>
> We're EVIL!
>
> (Sorry, just watched "Bedazzled" again the other day - impressed by
> Peter Cook's take on the Devil)
>
> Paul
>
> (btw - if you don't give in now, we'll send a computer virus that will
> kill your cat and turn your milk sour)
>
> --
>
> would be at the direct, criminal instigation of the Haifan Bahai
Finnegan's Wake
> On Oct 7, 11:03 pm, "Finnegan's Wake"
> <grim_NOSPAMreaper_...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> "Sock-Puppet'ullah" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:979d8762-b1d8-47fc...@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > This is the kind of response and attitude of disdain and cultural
>> > superiority you will get from such ignorant racists, as Dermod Ryder,
>> > when you do not value what you have, Shahriar khareh! A culturally
>> > impoverished Irishman lectures you below.
>>
>> And this comes from a Queenslander who told me he loved Irish music.
>
> I told you I liked traditional Celtic music - which your modern Irish
> (including folk Irish) clearly is not
I expressed no opinion on modern Irish music which, FYI, by definition is
not traditional. "Riverdance" is not traditional though it is most mightily
based on the traditional style and themes.
Do note the descriptor "traditional" which distinguishes and differentiates
from the modern mis-application of "folk." No songwriter can write a folk
song (assuming one applies the proper meaning to "folk") though some do
write songs that become folksongs. It is because of the tendency to apply
"folk" to the works of some lunatic tree-hugger bemoaning a perceived niche
problem, that we tend to use the term "traditional" to describe music that
is "folk", in the proper sense because it is "traditional."
Last I heard the Irish were ... Celtic. So, are you saying that traditional
Irish music isn't Celtic?
Do you actually enjoy talking shite ... or can you just not help yourself?
- and that I enjoyed the Pogues
> back in the '80s. I never told you I loved your tripe. You assumed.
Here's the Pogues with the Dubliners, featuring the late great Ronnie Drew)
singing that fine fine old traditional song - "The Irish Rover."
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tHDX9qb2-BQ
Gadzooks ... is it Irish or is it Celtic or is it Celtic and Irish or Irish
and Celtic?
I think we should be told.
Some of the Pogues were English, which in the Mimikins universe is,
presumably worse than being Irish.
> I never told you I loved your tripe. You assumed
So you like Celtic .... as in Galician, Breton, Welsh, Scottish ... but not
Irish! Do you know how much the music has travelled among these different
communities .... such that, sometimes, even the experts can't distinguish
its origin? So if you don't like my "tripe" you don't like Celtic ....
unless you're a complete rascist bigoted bastard who refuses to like music
because it is Irish.
Personally speaking, I likes me music ... I love traditional music and, if
it's a good tune, does it really matter where it came from. It's not just
Ireland - other countries have produced good tunes ... even England!!!!!
>>I criticised the example he gave of Iranian music on the grounds that it,
>>to
>>my ear, lacked a strong tune which is a hallmark of Irish music for many
>>reasons not unassociated with its history.
>
> You know nothing about Iranian music, its various styles, genres,
> theories, histories, regional and ethnic differences, etc. In short
> you know nothing about either this or anything else having to do with
> the people or culture of Iran.
I never said I did. And if you are a typical example of Iranian culture no
self-respecting person would want to know anything about it. But you're not
a typical example ... just the kind of moron that every culture throws up
from time to time.
I rarely say anything about subjects of which I have little or no knowledge.
It's something you should try.
You're a white racist, provincial, turn-
> coat twat trying to ingratiate yourself to your English master and
> leash-holder, and one who hasn't even set foot out of Britain in over
> 30+ years.
You haven't had a good shag in thirty years (and it shows) ... but what has
that got to do with the price of tea in China?
And BTW this remark is graced with the total absence of accuracy which is
the hall mark of just about everything you vomit hereabouts. Take a piece
of good advice and don't try to patronise the GLI!
> WTF do you know?
Apparently a lot more than you in certain areas
> WTF does your opinion even matter here?!
Since my opinions are evidentiary based, they don't matter at all to you.
Herein however, lies the triumph of mind over matter - I don't mind and you
don't matter.
>
> <BS snipped>
>
> W
Finnegan's Wake
"PaulHammond" <paha...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:bb7fc70e-9b4f-4dc0...@s1g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>> ... "the great unwashed." Traditional music is the music of the people
>> ...
>> were it otherwise it would not survive or flourish. And, strange to
>> note,
>> without it the so-called classical composers would have to entirely rely
>> on
>> their own abilities. O'Riada, in Ireland, Vaughan-Williams, in England,
>> drew from and relied heavily on the folk tradition for their melodies.
>
> Bela Bartok in Hungary!
You know your stuff - I actually deliberately left out Bartok because he was
European as opposed to being from either the English or Celtic traditions in
the Islands.
One should also interject that many popular and rock (of all kinds) bands
have drawn on the traditional music - Thin Lizzy's "Whiskey in the Jar"
comes to mind.
The library of the English Folk Dance and Song Society is named in honour of
Vaughan Williams for his work in collecting English Folk Music.
Collecting has been done in Ireland but the tradition is still alive in the
pubs and homes and the Fleadh Ceol held throughout the country, culminating
in the All-Ireland in August each year. The ultimate proof that it is the
music of the people lies here.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=U8i-ahlqmuY&feature=related
Nobody owns the music ... there's no copyright ... there's nothing elitist
about it ... it's there to be enjoyed by anybody ... even Mimikins, once he
gets over his innate rascism.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z3A5Tgy47M&feature=related "The
Blacksmith" - English song given an Irish treatment
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TdtZ8U4Lkf8&feature=related "The Jolly
Beggar" - a song of seduction which I think might be Scottish in origin.
Songs about beggars are widespread throughout the British Isles.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yM_1gLvySHw - one of, IMHO, the best English
folk songs, from Yorkshire and sung by one of the finest singers.
This should annoy Shahriar - the poor sod keeps re-posting the same link.
Sock-Puppet'ullah
Shahriar
>
> "Shahriar" <frei...@hotml.but> wrote in message
> news:gc5uem$tgf$1...@aioe.org...
>>>> though the fiddle is good but what's up with that move? appears they've
>>>> been served an iron stuff upward and keep a fire-ant in their pants to
>>>> bite their tonsil which they politely trying to brush off with abrupt
>>>> paw
>>>> shaking.
>>>
>>> I thought you'd be impressed ... along with the rest of the world!
>>
>> I was impressed, never had seen fire-ants could have such mind puzzling
>> effect.
>
> That is the sort of supercilious pretentious remark that I particularly
> associate with BIGS of Iranian origin. Given what you say, below, that
> Iran lost its musical heritage or failed to nourish it, I can understand
> the antipathy they show towards countries that have, not only maintained
> and developed their music but shared it with the world at large. It's
> called "envy." What you describe as "fire-ants" is the vitality and joie
> de vivre of people playing and dancing to great music. This is music of
> the people - it sustained a nation through tribulation; it endures and
> prospers because it is the mark of the nation and it's damned good.
> Methinks you have neither the energy nor the ability to enjoy yourself in
> such a fashion.
Dermod, firstly, hold your horses try to take a bit of humor. Only imagine
if you had a fire-ant in your pants, how funny that would be!!
But of course when you think of a nation what comes to your mind is but a
tribe. however in Iran, even today, linguistically and genetically the
nation is composed of white (Indo-Europeans, Semites) yellow (Chinese,
Mongolians, Tatars), and black (Africans), each of which have their own
subdivision and ethnicity which is farther broken to smaller tribe, such as
Kurds, Belches, Persians, ... with their own distinct dialect. Now
figuratively speaking there are tens of Irelands ethnical/cultural isles in
Iran, which most have kept their original folk music and custom. But what I
meant by weakening of music in Iran, after the Arab invasion, was that of
the court/official music, where it was exported and shared with,
particularly, china and India. Yes that type of music has been tremendously
reduced because the Persian court never got reestablished as in pre-Arab
era. Furthermore, since Islam discourages certain type of music, produced by
string instruments, there was less likely that Moslem rulers would
revitalize the old
conservatoire.
Secondly, geographically speaking, Ireland would have stood at the far
corner of the world, until the discovery of the Americas. Iran, on the other
hand, stood and still stands in the center of the world, where many many
nations, tribes and clans have came and left, from Alexander, to Genghis
Khan ... etc. As of for Ireland, the most your country was exposed to was
the invasion of Brits in 12th century, which is sadly lasting until today. I
gather you would not be speaking English if it was not imposed on you. In
Iran we speak Farsi, we did this for the last several thousands years and
still do. Of course language has evolved and been influenced. I am not sure
if a lasting language does not indicate the strength of a culture what
would. e.g. everybody spoke Latine/Romance with in Roam empire, everybody
spoke Arabic withtin Arab empire. Iranians not only kept their language and
traditions yet the invading nations did adapt it to a large degree. Still
for several thousand of years Iranians celebrate the equinox, the first day
of spring as their new year, where as in Romanic cultures it had changed
several times.
Thirdly, music, on the other hand, cannot not be contained within a culture.
One can hear a piece of music in Tuva and play it in Ireland. I mean it is
much easier to be retained, reproduced, reconfigured, and replayed in
wherever. Music is the most liquid portion of a culture that in reality is
not bounded by other limitations a culture may impose, such as geography. So
it is very possible that the today cherished music in China may have had
gone there from Iran, or vise versa. Additionally, the contemporary Irish
music, specially the dance part of it is much enhanced mixed and
commercialized. You cant say this dance was performed a hundred years ago in
the same manner. They may have had moved a leg or two within the few minutes
of a flout and drum play.The old style step dancing (the origin of current
Irish dance) was developed in 18-19 century which overshadows your claim of
cultural heritage and limits your ancestral heritage to 18th century.
But the Irish music, you said is quite distinct from that of the rest of
Europe. I've been in Bask region enough to claim that their music has
nothing to do with Irish music, though you guys may genetically be related
but they do not follow any of the norms you do, for one their overlords are
not brits! :-) Thus, I would say the unlikely proximity of Irish Tune with
that of Spain or most Europe may suggest that its origin/influence may have
come from some other corners of the world, plainly, Tuva/china/central Asia
or pre-Islamic Iran.
I understand by saying this I set fire (or place few fire-ants) in your
pants ... you may want to shake it off now and display your expertise in
Irish dancing. Your other choice would be to again accuse me of being a
typical "supercilious pretentious ... BIGS of Iranian origin". But in truth,
I enjoy all cultures and all music, particularly I found myself most amazed
by African music though. Now go get a grip of yourself, I don't care about
one nation or another. I am just pooling your leg. But Fred is still nowhere
to be seen.
enjoy: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_WQstWAGtvc
>> Of course I am. but original music of Iran had been banned for the last
>> 1000 years. thus, its development was halted and gradually lost. What we
>> know now as traditional Iranian music is something that took shape into
>> its current form during the last 200 years, very different from what we
>> could have heard before or about year 700 AD.
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSDeVxGHxaU
>
> Cobblers! If it was worth saving you'd have saved it. We did ... even
> though the Saxons did their utmost to destroy it. And we got our ultimate
> revenge ... we let them have some of our best tunes.
See above.
PaulHammond
His only possible response was to go back to spamming my words about
the place, adding to my fame!
How lame!
Paul
> > W- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sock-Puppet'ullah
> Look's like you've left him speechless again, Dermod!
Speechless in the depth of your sleaze and dishonesty, yep. But we
passed that bridge a long time ago, limey ponce. Nothing surprises me
about you or your fellow IT committee members anymore.
I am just keeping this thread alive despite your attempts to kill it.
W
Sock-Puppet'ullah
Shahriar
> This is the kind of response and attitude of disdain and cultural
> superiority you will get from such ignorant racists, as Dermod Ryder,
> when you do not value what you have, Shahriar khareh! A culturally
> impoverished Irishman lectures you below.
>
> Khaak bar saret!
You cant even scratch the surface, you're as wrong as it gets. I have a
little fun with Dermod and he becomes a bit itchy, I start laughing and he
get started in shaking off the fire-ant off his pants. I am not into proving
who is superior and who is not, today only an idiot would go that direction.
Oops, forgot you were the manizertation and all jafang. boro kooneto beshour
choos khor-e Olagh-e oghdeyee!
Sock-Puppet'ullah
> "Sock-Puppet'ullah" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:979d8762-b1d8-47fc...@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>
> > This is the kind of response and attitude of disdain and cultural
> > superiority you will get from such ignorant racists, as Dermod Ryder,
> > when you do not value what you have, Shahriar khareh! A culturally
> > impoverished Irishman lectures you below.
>
> > Khaak bar saret!
>
> You cant even scratch the surface,
I can scratch enough of the surface to see that you bahaim - whatever
your persuasion - are westoxicated cultural sell-outs to the max
without distinction. I can also scratch enough of the surface to see
the lag times in your various messages to me here; lag time which
shows the length of "consultations" transpiring in the IT committee on
the actual tone and wording of response.
Now on a tangential vein: Barack HUSSEIN Obama is going to win these
presidential elections in the US and become 44th President. As a
matter of strategic need - not out of anything else - the new US
administration is going to begin talking to the mullahs (as if they
haven't already been). But whatever comes out of it, you bahaim are
going to be the biggest losers of the deal, just like in Iraq when you
went backing Bush in order to get back your bogus "sacred site" in
Baghdad.
W
Sock-Puppet'ullah
PaulHammond
> On Oct 10, 1:29 pm, "Shahriar" <frein...@hotml.but> wrote:
>
> > "Sock-Puppet'ullah" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:979d8762-b1d8-47fc...@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > This is the kind of response and attitude of disdain and cultural
> > > superiority you will get from such ignorant racists, as Dermod Ryder,
> > > when you do not value what you have, Shahriar khareh! A culturally
> > > impoverished Irishman lectures you below.
>
> > > Khaak bar saret!
>
> > You cant even scratch the surface,
>
> I can scratch enough of the surface to see that you bahaim - whatever
> your persuasion - are westoxicated cultural sell-outs to the max
> without distinction.
Says the arsehole who lives in Queensland, Australia - and in the USA
before that!
When was the last time you were in Iran, Nima?
> I can also scratch enough of the surface to see
> the lag times in your various messages to me here; lag time which
> shows the length of "consultations" transpiring in the IT committee on
> the actual tone and wording of response.
>
Are you suggesing that Shahriar too, is part of the international
Baha'i "Get-Nima" conspiracy?
I don't believe that anyone actually ASKED you to post your racist
rubbish into his conversation with Dermod about what seems to be a
shared interest in traditional music.
It's nice to see people talking about something more meaningful that's
nothing much to do with any of the slagging crap that goes on around
here.
<political commonplaces snipped>
Paul
Finnegan's Wake
"Shahriar" <frei...@hotml.but> wrote in message
>
> "Sock-Puppet'ullah" <wahid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:979d8762-b1d8-47fc...@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>> This is the kind of response and attitude of disdain and cultural
>> superiority you will get from such ignorant racists, as Dermod Ryder,
>> when you do not value what you have, Shahriar khareh! A culturally
>> impoverished Irishman lectures you below.
>>
>> Khaak bar saret!
>
> You cant even scratch the surface, you're as wrong as it gets. I have a
> little fun with Dermod and he becomes a bit itchy, I start laughing and he
> get started in shaking off the fire-ant off his pants. I am not into
> proving who is superior and who is not, today only an idiot would go that
> direction.
Me neither. There is no disputation! No need for proof - it's obvious to
anybody who has but half a brain (which probably explains why Mimikins can't
see it). The Irish are the best! And BTW they're different ... very
different!
> Oops, forgot you were the manizertation and all jafang. boro kooneto
> beshour choos khor-e Olagh-e oghdeyee!
He couldn't possbly be a manifestation. Not only is he not Irish ... he's
anti-Irish. God doesn't make mistakes like that!
Sock-Puppet'ullah
> Says the arsehole who lives in Queensland, Australia - and in the USA
> before that!
No, says a proud Iranian-Australian living here who is here to
colonize this Land out of limey motherfuckers like you.
See *Bahais In My Backyard*
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2877478116441126906&hl=en-AU
BAHAIM Tactics & Techniques
"Slanderous Vilification" = The Baha'i Technique - Ad Hominem, Libel,
Slander, Demonize, Scapegoat, Ostracize, Shun, Banish, Backbite,
Defame, Vilify, Discredit, Smear, Revile, Suppress, Attack, Bully,
Intimidate, Threaten, Malign, Blackball, Deceive, Coerce, Silence,
Harass... etc., etc.... CAUTION NON-BAHAIS
1. As far as possible they hold back from responding
2. Then they claim no knowledge [of the given issue] by feigning
ignorance
3. After the exposer has exposed they will try to divert to secondary
and totally peripheral and irrelevent side-issues
4. The exposer is then painted as someone with an axe to grind,
biased, deluded (while they, the bahaim, still have not responded to
the main issue exposed)
5. Next they relate mental instability and insanity to the exposer
[i.e. shoot the messenger]
6. Then, the last tactic, is to wheel out several dubious personas on
the scene who claim to be neutral non-bahai observers who then begin
attacking the exposer as well as the issue exposed and supporting the
bahais and their issues as so-called non-bahais
Finnegan's Wake
> On Oct 11, 3:10 am, PaulHammond <pahamm...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
>> Says the arsehole who lives in Queensland, Australia - and in the USA
>> before that!
>
> No, says a proud Iranian-Australian living here who is here to
> colonize this Land out of limey motherfuckers like you.
Has never set foot in Iran and yet is a expert on anything to do with it.
I'll bet he 'll never get there either ... well, not unless it was really
safe to go.
He's just like those assholed Irish-Americans who had never been to Ireland,
yet never allowed that ignorance to stop their pontificating about the
Troubles here.
He's also an imperialist running dog ... gonna colonise the Antipodes ...
true fans will note the Yankee breaking through in the "colonize" bit ...
must be where he learned his imperialist ... and racist ways.
Has anybody else noticed how it is always the really stupid ignorant
gobshites who make the most noise and actually know the least?
Whoops! I've just described the nasty little racist Queenslander shite to a
T!
No
Irish
May
Apply!
Yes! That's Mimikins all right ... racist to the core!
Sock-Puppet'ullah
<grim_NOSPAMreaper_...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> "Sock-Puppet'ullah" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d3a5e3d0-2e05-4a93...@g17g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Oct 11, 3:10 am, PaulHammond <pahamm...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>
> >> Says the arsehole who lives in Queensland, Australia - and in the USA
> >> before that!
>
> > No, says a proud Iranian-Australian living here who is here to
> > colonize this Land out of limey motherfuckers like you.
>
> Has never set foot in Iran
I've never set foot in Iran, eh, yet my birth certificate says I was
born there and lived there till 1979. My passport also says I was
there again in 2003. WTF do you know, welfare mick? Just because your
lack of income due to your dependence on the British wlefare system
has your house ridden to your Craggy Island, doesn't mean everyone is
like a loser such as you.
Earlier in the year you were claiming you had the power to have me
deported from Australia and back to Iran, now in a desperate argument,
you say I have never been there. Where have you been besides AmeriKKKA
and Britian?
W
Sock-Puppet'ullah
Finnegan's Wake
> On Oct 10, 7:50 am, PaulHammond <pahamm...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>> Look's like you've left him speechless again, Dermod!
>
> Speechless in the depth of your sleaze and dishonesty, yep. But we
> passed that bridge a long time ago,
Was that the one in Brooklyn that you've been trying to sell for years?
You've had as much luck there as you've had in trying to sell the rest of
your mad ideas.
limey ponce. Nothing surprises me
> about you or your fellow IT committee members anymore.
Not even the fact that we all have the most gorgeous salmon-pink uniforms
that we all must wear when engaging with you.
> I am just keeping this thread alive despite your attempts to kill it.
Good show! Keep it up!
PS Have you telephoned yet? Not doing so is a great way to keep the thread
alive.
We'll know you've phoned when you start to kill the subject.
>
> W
>
Death to Haifan Bahaism
<grim_NOSPAMreaper_...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> "Sock-Puppet'ullah" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:e116b9f6-92f6-4807...@c22g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Oct 10, 7:50 am, PaulHammond <pahamm...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
> >> Look's like you've left him speechless again, Dermod!
>
> > Speechless in the depth of your sleaze and dishonesty, yep. But we
> > passed that bridge a long time ago,
>
> Was that the one in Brooklyn that you've been trying to sell for years?
No, it's the one over the Thames.
<snip>
> PS Have you telephoned yet? Not doing so is a great way to keep the thread
> alive.
I did that before I even started any of these threads, thick mick.
W
Death to Haifan Bahaism
<grim_NOSPAMreaper_...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> "Sock-Puppet'ullah" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d3a5e3d0-2e05-4a93...@g17g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> > On Oct 11, 3:10 am, PaulHammond <pahamm...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
> >> Says the arsehole who lives in Queensland, Australia - and in the USA
> >> before that!
> > No, says a proud Iranian-Australian living here who is here to
> > colonize this Land out of limey motherfuckers like you.
> Has never set foot in Iran
I've never set foot in Iran, eh, yet my birth certificate says I was
born there and lived there till 1979. My passport also says I was
there again in 2003. WTF do you know, welfare mick? Just because your
lack of income due to your dependence on the British welfare system
has you house ridden to your Craggy Island, doesn't mean everyone is a
loser such as you who has to truck for the bahaim to supplement their
income.
Death to Haifan Bahaism
Finnegan's Wake
"Death to Haifan Bahaism" <deathto...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:acc92514-4a73-48a7...@u40g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 11, 1:35 pm, "Finnegan's Wake"
> <grim_NOSPAMreaper_...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> "Sock-Puppet'ullah" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:e116b9f6-92f6-4807...@c22g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Oct 10, 7:50 am, PaulHammond <pahamm...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>> >> Look's like you've left him speechless again, Dermod!
>>
>> > Speechless in the depth of your sleaze and dishonesty, yep. But we
>> > passed that bridge a long time ago,
>>
>> Was that the one in Brooklyn that you've been trying to sell for years?
>
> No, it's the one over the Thames.
So you still can'y manage to off-load either one of them. Ever thoiught of
trying something you can do effectively?
>
> <snip>
>
>> PS Have you telephoned yet? Not doing so is a great way to keep the
>> thread
>> alive.
>
> I did that before I even started any of these threads, thick mick.
And nobody would speak to you? Hardly surprising, but no real reason for
spreading the manure you have been spreading.
Finnegan's Wake
> On Oct 11, 1:29 pm, "Finnegan's Wake"
> <grim_NOSPAMreaper_...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> "Sock-Puppet'ullah" <wahidaza...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:d3a5e3d0-2e05-4a93...@g17g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Oct 11, 3:10 am, PaulHammond <pahamm...@onetel.net.uk> wrote:
>>
>> >> Says the arsehole who lives in Queensland, Australia - and in the USA
>> >> before that!
>>
>> > No, says a proud Iranian-Australian living here who is here to
>> > colonize this Land out of limey motherfuckers like you.
>>
>> Has never set foot in Iran
>
>
> I've never set foot in Iran, eh, yet my birth certificate says I was
> born there and lived there till 1979. My passport also says I was
> there again in 2003.
So, between 1979 and 2003 which is 24 years, you were not in Iran and in
2003 you spent ...what? ... three weeks there ... and from 2003 to 2008 you
have not been in Iran. Yo speak with an American accent; you spell in the
American style; you live in Australia and you try to tell us you're the
greatest Iranian on the block.
Pull the other leg ... it plays "I believe!"
> WTF do you know, welfare mick? Just because your
> lack of income due to your dependence on the British wlefare system
> has your house ridden to your Craggy Island, doesn't mean everyone is
> like a loser such as you.
I'm retired now and, truth is, I am effectively housebound since being
trashed in an accident a few years back. No doubt that was your karma
working!
> Earlier in the year you were claiming you had the power to have me
> deported from Australia and back to Iran, now in a desperate argument,
> you say I have never been there. Where have you been besides AmeriKKKA
> and Britian?
A few other places that are none of your concern.
If you misbehave the Australian authorites, I have little doubt, could
deport you but they'e deport you to the USA rather than Iran ... as that was
your primary residence before you went to Australia.
Sock-Puppet'ullah
<grim_NOSPAMreaper_...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> And nobody would speak to you? Hardly surprising, but no real reason for
> spreading the manure you have been spreading.
Albeit the only manure stench wafting anywhere is from the general
direction of a Craggy Island and specifically from a particular
species of Dead Weed.
W
Finnegan's Wake
"Shahriar" <frei...@hotml.but> wrote in message
>
> Dermod, firstly, hold your horses try to take a bit of humor. Only imagine
> if you had a fire-ant in your pants, how funny that would be!!
That would be funny but equating Irish step dancing with fire ants is an
insult too far ... unless, of course, you could step as lightly as the lads
from Ottawa and the lasses from Ireland.
> But of course when you think of a nation what comes to your mind is but a
> tribe.
More a collection than one tribe, though there is a nation bound by a
culture and a degree of ethnicity. It is changing ... as all things do.
The division in modern Ireland is, as it has been for centuries between the
ethnic Irish Catholic and the Protestant planter - those who came at English
behest to supplant the native with Protestantism. Many came from Scotland
and are concentrated in Northern Ireland. In culture and music there is much
commonality between Northern Ireland and Scotland - there is a continuing
exchange of traditional music between the two countries such that it can be
difficult to denominate country of origin in respect of many tunes.
Scotland is a part of the Celtic heartland.
We are now experiencing inward migration of Eastern Europeans, especially
Poles. It is too soon to say how that will change our culture and music ...
if indeed, it does change it. Previous waves of migrants from Norman to
English have been absorbed with seemingly little influence on the music ...
or maybe we just absorb the influence and give it an Irish tinge. I think
we export more folk song and music than we import - for example, there is a
fine song called "The Banks of the Bann" which has been recovered from the
English tradition but which I think is Irish in origin because the Bann
river flows through County Down ... indeed I was born within a stone's throw
of its banks.
http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=8128
Now if you compare this one to it: -
http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=5833
the lyrics and storyline are quite different (though the title is the same)
but this mentions "Rathfriland," a village which is but a few miles from the
town of Banbridge which has, as its name suggests a bridge over the River
Bann. In the first example I also note that "Delaney" is an Irish name.
Here's another one: -
http://mysongbook.de/msb/songs/b/bkofclau.html
There are literally hundreds of "broken token" songs - they certainly
pre-date medieval times and are widespread throughout the British Isles.
This one is well established in the English tradition but what puzzles me
about it is "Claudy," for Claudy is a village in Northern Ireland. The tune
is very suited to the English style of singing - it is a mainstay of the
Copper Family who are, IMHO, fine exponents of English folk song. The song
has been recovered in Northern Ireland and elsewhere: -
http://www.folkinfo.org/songs/displaysong.php?songid=57
The words of the Northern Irish version (in the Sam Henry Collection) vary
somewhat but this is not unusual - indeed it is the mark of a song that has
gone into the tradition. The only thing to be gleaned from most written or
printed versions especially with this song, is that it is probably a lot
older than the date it was printed.
I'm not a scholar in this field but I find both the songs (and their tunes)
of great historical import as they give a glimpse into at least a part of
the lives of our ancestors. If these songs are Irish then they were
brought to England by Irish emigrants and adopted into the English
tradition, thus perhaps indicating that there was lesser antipathy towards
the Irish than some might think. After all the English would not have heard
the songs if they had not been socialising with the Micks.
however in Iran, even today, linguistically and genetically the
> nation is composed of white (Indo-Europeans, Semites) yellow (Chinese,
> Mongolians, Tatars), and black (Africans), each of which have their own
> subdivision and ethnicity which is farther broken to smaller tribe, such
> as Kurds, Belches, Persians, ... with their own distinct dialect. Now
> figuratively speaking there are tens of Irelands ethnical/cultural isles
> in Iran, which most have kept their original folk music and custom. But
> what I meant by weakening of music in Iran, after the Arab invasion, was
> that of the court/official music, where it was exported and shared with,
> particularly, china and India. Yes that type of music has been
> tremendously reduced because the Persian court never got reestablished as
> in pre-Arab era. Furthermore, since Islam discourages certain type of
> music, produced by string instruments, there was less likely that Moslem
> rulers would revitalize the old
> conservatoire.
If one discounts music from the last few centuries, indeed turn to the year
1792 when, for the first time the ancient music of Ireland was taken down in
written form, there was a very distinctive kind of music which was
Celtic/Irish and not European. Some of it, at that time, was very ancient,
dating back to pre-Christian Ireland and some of more recent origin e.g. the
works of Turlough O'Carolan who was the first "composer" to deviate from the
strict
Irish tradition and introduce European influences. A lot was lost because of
the English presence in Ireland and their efforts to destroy the Gaelic
culture and impose the Protestant faith on an exclusively Catholic country.
The ascendancy class in Ireland was alien in nationality and religion -
being English and Protestant. Yet Carolan, a native Irish Catholic, was
supported by and both composed in honour of and played for his Protestant
patrons. His tunes have gone into the tradition and, obviously influenced
it. They are not dance tunes but they are not "slow airs" and most had
words, in Irish associated with them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bunting
Carolan was a great character and fond of his whiskey - he expected free
access to the cellars of his hosts and patrons. When the butler at one
house, a blackguard by the name of O'Flynn refused him that access, Carolan
penned vitriol in Irish which, fortunately, translated freely into
English as: -
"What a pity hell's gates are not kept by O'Flynn,
So surly a brute would let nobody in."
>
> Secondly, geographically speaking, Ireland would have stood at the far
> corner of the world, until the discovery of the Americas.
Which would account for the development of a distinctive style of music.
Ireland was not conquered by the Romans - the Danes and Normans really only
settled areas in and around the coast and mainly around Dublin in an area
known as the "Pale" (from which, incidentally comes the well-known saying of
'beyond the pale'). Until the arrival of the English,
indeed until the early 17th Century the bulk of the island retained its
distinctive Gaelic language and culture untroubled by foreign influence.
The real death knell for that culture and the language was the famine of the
1840s and the Irish Diaspora that followed and continued until very recent
times i.e. within my lifetime.
Iran, on the
> other hand, stood and still stands in the center of the world, where many
> many nations, tribes and clans have came and left, from Alexander, to
> Genghis Khan ... etc. As of for Ireland, the most your country was exposed
> to was the invasion of Brits in 12th century, which is sadly lasting until
> today. I gather you would not be speaking English if it was not imposed on
> you.
That is true! Mind you it did have certain advantages. Had English not
become the dominant language then many of the great writers of the English
language from Swift to Joyce would be unknown as they would have composed
their works in a minority language. The Gaelic language (common to
Ireland and Scotland albeit with such regional dialect and difference that
might make one assume there is no relationship), though suppressed, did
contribute much colour to English. Colloquial expressions here are often
the result of literal translation from Irish to English e.g. "There's a
drought on me" said in Ireland becomes "I'm thirsty" in England and is a
literal translation (almost) - the actual word is "thirst" and the colour is
"drought"
In Iran we speak Farsi, we did this for the last several thousands
> years and still do. Of course language has evolved and been influenced. I
> am not sure if a lasting language does not indicate the strength of a
> culture what would. e.g. everybody spoke Latine/Romance with in Roam
> empire, everybody spoke Arabic withtin Arab empire. Iranians not only kept
> their language and traditions yet the invading nations did adapt it to a
> large degree. Still for several thousand of years Iranians celebrate the
> equinox, the first day of spring as their new year, where as in Romanic
> cultures it had changed several times.
I'm a believer in genetic memory - in our genes, in some way, is reflected
the experience and history of our ancestors that colours our dealings with
life. I first realised this when an English colleague observed that, in his
experience, the Irish were prodigious eaters and consumed far more at any
one meal than his confreres or himself in England. Is this, I wonder, a
genetic memory of the Famine in the 1840s that persuades us to eat as if
every meal is the last we'll see for many a day?
We may have effectively lost our language but some of its cultural
attributes remain. There is a rich strain of folklore and folk tales in
Ireland stretching way back. They were passed in an oral tradition. Poetry
was also important - Carolan attached verses to his music and one was as
important as the other (as it had always been). Creative language was
important if not central to
the culture and that survived the transition from one language to another.
Irish folk song is rich in material that demonstrates a love of creative
language. Here's a link to song lyrics I posted here sometime ago of a song
variously but most commonly titled "The Humours of Whiskey". It is pure
music hall but it has passed into the tradition not only on account of the
subject matter but also the humour and the slickness of phrasing apparent.
It is usually unsafe to generalise but I'd be hard pushed to find a English
folk song in a similar vein or style. This song and its style is not
unique - "The Irish Rover," "The Kerry Recruit" etc etc all display the same
adventure in and love of words. Is this also a genetic memory of a culture
long gone?
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.religion.bahai/browse_thread/thread/93c98ce69f5634be/b0dc9f93978cd7a4?lnk=gst&q=Quacks+and+newspapers#b0dc9f93978cd7a4
> Thirdly, music, on the other hand, cannot not be contained within a
> culture. One can hear a piece of music in Tuva and play it in Ireland.
I have some reservations about this - particularly in respect of music that
has been composed on and for a particular instrument. It just might not
transfer to a very different instrument. This is one for you to answer from
your knowledge of Iranian music - could you imagine it being played on
uilleann pipes, an instrument of such tortuous complexity that only the
Irish could have devised it: -
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EQU84O8xZlE&feature=related
I'm tempted to dedicate this grand piece to Mimikins - I see him as "An
Madadhrin Ruadh" - the little red dog or fox - being pursued by horse and
hound and torn to pieces by the latter before all dance a little jig to
celebrate.
> mean it is much easier to be retained, reproduced, reconfigured, and
> replayed in wherever. Music is the most liquid portion of a culture that
> in reality is not bounded by other limitations a culture may impose, such
> as geography. So it is very possible that the today cherished music in
> China may have had gone there from Iran, or vise versa.
Just as Irish music went to England, Scotland, Wales, the USA, Canada,
Australia, New Zealand etc. ... but it also stayed at home and is alive as a
folk art and flourishing.
Additionally, the
> contemporary Irish music, specially the dance part of it is much enhanced
> mixed and commercialized.
Until Riverdance, Irish dance was of little commercial importance and the
purists don't like Riverdance because the arms are raised.
I distinguish between contemporary and folk or traditional music - the
former may be good enough to someday become a part of the latter..
You cant say this dance was performed a hundred
> years ago in the same manner. They may have had moved a leg or two within
> the few minutes of a flout and drum play.The old style step dancing (the
> origin of current Irish dance) was developed in 18-19 century which
> overshadows your claim of cultural heritage and limits your ancestral
> heritage to 18th century.
Dance in Ireland goes way back - http://www.irelandseye.com/dance.html and
has, obviously changed over the years. The ceremonial dance is long gone -
unlike England where Morris dancing survives.
What you see in the links I provided earlier
is step dancing developed to its highest form as a professional
entertainment - social dancing is less frenetic but still lively with a wide
variety of dances and tempos - reels, jigs, slip jigs, slides, mazurkas,
polka, waltz etc. The vast bulk of traditional music is dance music and it
is still being added to. Academic study of Irish traditional music is long
behind that conducted by and in other countries as the music is still very
much alive and owned by the people, not the academics or the music
companies -
as evidenced by the link showing 2,700 traditional musicians - all
volunteeers and unpaid - assembled in Tullamore for the 2008 All Ireland
Fleadh Ceol (Music Festival). The Fleadh is held in every county in Ireland
and the winners go to the All-Ireland for the national championships in
music and dance. You cited in one post the summoning of 40,000 musicians
from Persia to go East. Ireland has a population of 5 million. Do the sums
and you can get an idea of just how musical this country is - obviously not
ALL of the musicians went to Tullamore.
Ireland cannot support a great number of high quality professional
traditional, or indeed any,
musicians - the population is too small. There is a huge demand for
traditional Irish music throughout Europe and North America. Consequently
professional musicians spend a lot of
time abroad where there is a demand and, of course, they help spread the
music and are also influenced by what they hear - hence the collaboration
between Irish and the European Celts.
Riverdance, which is modern though based on and greatly influence by
traditional forms (and multinational in the full
show), started as an interval filler on the Eurovision (Popular) Song
Contest held in Dublin in 1994. It brought an international audience to its
feet in spontaineous applause - nothing like it had been seen outside
Ireland before. Its success as a travelling show was grounded on the fact
that there were Irish communities spread throughout the world which had
supported groups like the Chieftains who were the first to actively promote
Irish traditional music internationally. Irish traditional music was in
terminal decline up until the 1950s - it was not pereceived to be "cool".
The revival, believe it or not, started in pubs in England and New York.
> But the Irish music, you said is quite distinct from that of the rest of
> Europe. I've been in Bask region enough to claim that their music has
> nothing to do with Irish music, though you guys may genetically be related
> but they do not follow any of the norms you do, for one their overlords
> are not brits! :-)
There's many as would disagree with you. As I noted Irish traditional
musicians travel in and play throughout Europe. Apart from the Celtic areas
(where the affinity and relationship is) little European, non-Celtic music
is travelling to Ireland.
Thus, I would say the unlikely proximity of Irish Tune
> with that of Spain or most Europe may suggest that its origin/influence
> may have come from some other corners of the world, plainly,
> Tuva/china/central Asia or pre-Islamic Iran.
I don't know where it originated but music was a part of Irish life and
culture from pre-Christian times. As an island and with a reputation of
being peopled by quite fierce warriors - the Micks did put the Danes to
flight, after all - a distinctive culture developed with little significant
disturbance for many centuries.
> I understand by saying this I set fire (or place few fire-ants) in your
> pants ... you may want to shake it off now and display your expertise in
> Irish dancing.
I'm now too old ... if not too sore ... for that
Your other choice would be to again accuse me of being a
> typical "supercilious pretentious ... BIGS of Iranian origin". But in
> truth, I enjoy all cultures and all music, particularly I found myself
> most amazed by African music though.
African music is quite rhythmic but lacks the distinctive tunes on which the
strength of Irish music is grounded. Perhaps the explanation lies in the
instruments that each culture developed. Ireland's "national" instruments
are the tin whistle, the flute, the fiddle, the harp and the uileann pipes
which are all more suited to melody than rhythm. Most bagpipes feature
chanter and drones - the uillean pipes feature chanter, drone and
regulators, which can play chords. In the array of pipes the uileann are
unique.
> Now go get a grip of yourself, I
> don't care about one nation or another.
Oh I do! I'm not a universalist who sees the world's people as one - I see
them as different and diverse and long may they remain that way. You should
be in Dublin on a rugby weekend ... particularly when Ireland is playing
England. After the match the fans adjourn to the pubs to for sorrow or
celebration ... there's no fighting or conflict ... just an intense rivalry
and competitiveness that makes for a good time for all. If we ever get rid
of that sense of national pride and the competitive spirit that goes with
it, we will be left with an intensely dull world.
> I am just pooling your leg.
Better to just pull it ... otherwise you could be seen as a dog lifting his
leg against me boots!!!! :-)
> But
> Fred is still nowhere to be seen.
A great mystery ... though I'm kinda wondering exactly what Mimikins was
told when, as he claims, he ranf Fred's residence to find out where he was.
Perhaps he will tell us ... but probably not! He wouldn't be the Mimikins,
we have grown to know and detest, if he did ....
Finnegan's Wake
Thus spake Father Dick Byrne ... and we all know what a tosser he was ...
somewhat like you, the emphasis is on his forename!
PaulHammond
Finnegan's Wake wrote:
> "Shahriar" <frei...@hotml.but> wrote in message
> news:gclpa5$sol$1...@aioe.org...
> Thus, I would say the unlikely proximity of Irish Tune
> with that of Spain or most Europe may suggest that its origin/influence
> may have come from some other corners of the world, plainly,
> Tuva/china/central Asia or pre-Islamic Iran.
I don't know where it originated but music was a part of Irish life
and
culture from pre-Christian times. As an island and with a reputation
of
being peopled by quite fierce warriors - the Micks did put the Danes
to
flight, after all - a distinctive culture developed with little
significant
disturbance for many centuries.
---
I just noticed this comment in reading through Dermod's reply.
To me, the fact that there could be simlarities/influence between
Spain and Ireland is not, in fact, all that surprising.
These days, a connection between the Atlantic facing countries is
quite a well known theory - almost a hoary old one by now. It stems
from considering seas as routes of connection rather than barriers.
There's a well known connection between Vikings and their sea lanes -
the Scandinavians get across to the North of Scotland, and the
Scottish Isles, the Isle of Man, Ireland, Wales, Cornwall and
Brittany, as well as Iceland, Greenland and Vinland in North America.
Spain is an Atlantic facing country too, in some aspects. I doubt
that the connection between Spain and Ireland would be as strong and
as common as the connection between Ireland and Brittany in France, or
Ireland and Cornwall - but it's not impossible or surprising just on
the face of it.
We know now that this geography is wrong, but classical authors (those
for whom Ireland was indeed at the edge of the world) used to think
that Spain was the other side of Ireland, probably about the same
distance as Britain!
Paul
383
Bacquet....
383
PaulHammond
383 wrote:
> Paul Hammond still silent regarding his falling out with Karen
> Bacquet....
>
Does this have anything to do with the comments I just made on
Dermod's conversation with Shariar about types of music?
No?
I refer you to #3 in your helpful list below:
> 3. After the exposer has exposed they will try to divert to secondary
> and totally peripheral and irrelevent side-issues
I've got a couple of things to say about your continuing attempts to
bait me by strewing Karen's name across all the conversations that are
happening here.
1) My relationship with Karen is none of your business
2) I made an attempt to talk to you about that on the thread that you
started "Question to Palu" asking me about that. But your response
was such that I decided my original policy of ignoring you on this was
the right one. You've already decided that you believe that rumour -
so why should I stop you making a fool of yourself over it. If you
want to talk to me about your sources for this rumour, go talk to me
over there. I won't engage with you on this anywhere else.
Finnegan's Wake
"383" <wahid...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ea67ce42-30e1-41d7...@a18g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
> Paul Hammond still silent regarding his falling out with Karen
> Bacquet....
So am I!
Finnegan's Wake
"PaulHammond" <paha...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:ec7d2de8-4ca1-4843...@e38g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Finnegan's Wake wrote:
>
>> "Shahriar" <frei...@hotml.but> wrote in message
>> news:gclpa5$sol$1...@aioe.org...
>
>> Thus, I would say the unlikely proximity of Irish Tune
>> with that of Spain or most Europe may suggest that its origin/influence
>> may have come from some other corners of the world, plainly,
>> Tuva/china/central Asia or pre-Islamic Iran.
>
>
> I don't know where it originated but music was a part of Irish life
> and
> culture from pre-Christian times. As an island and with a reputation
> of
> being peopled by quite fierce warriors - the Micks did put the Danes
> to
> flight, after all - a distinctive culture developed with little
> significant
> disturbance for many centuries.
>
> ---
>
> I just noticed this comment in reading through Dermod's reply.
>
> To me, the fact that there could be simlarities/influence between
> Spain and Ireland is not, in fact, all that surprising.
Don't forget the Spanish Armada - a lot of the ships were wrecked on the
Irish coastline. I have seen notes to a tune variously known as the
MunsterCloak/Spanish Cloak that it is Irish and has a hint of Spanish
influence attributed to survivors of an Armada shipwreck.
> These days, a connection between the Atlantic facing countries is
> quite a well known theory - almost a hoary old one by now. It stems
> from considering seas as routes of connection rather than barriers.
>
> There's a well known connection between Vikings and their sea lanes -
> the Scandinavians get across to the North of Scotland, and the
> Scottish Isles, the Isle of Man, Ireland, Wales, Cornwall and
> Brittany, as well as Iceland, Greenland and Vinland in North America.
>
> Spain is an Atlantic facing country too, in some aspects. I doubt
> that the connection between Spain and Ireland would be as strong and
> as common as the connection between Ireland and Brittany in France, or
> Ireland and Cornwall - but it's not impossible or surprising just on
> the face of it.
The affinity is Northern Spain/Brittany/Ireland - the Celtic nations.
Curiously Wales and Cornwall are somewhat out of the loop - they are Celtic
nations but Irish and Welsh are completely different languages. In Irish,
"thank you" is rendered as "Go raibh maith agat" (lit: "There was good at
you"); in Welsh it is a brief "Diolch". The Scots and Irish share the Gaelic
language but not the Welsh, the Cornish or the European cousins. I know not
the reasons though I surmise that the Welsh retained the ancient Bardic
tradition whilst missing out on the intermediate developments in Scotland
and Ireland because the English subsumed Wales sooner, in a way they never
did with Scotland and Ireland.
I have consistently held that nationality is partially genetic and partially
cultural. The Doodlebug loves her music. Quite a few years ago the movie
"Michael Collins" was playing on the television. Some hours later she
started humming one of the tunes from the soundtrack - a somewhat, to my
ear, maudlin' song called "Macushla." It is now her favourite - I had to
rush out and buy the soundtrack for her. But here's the curious thing - we
recently learned that was the favourite song of her maternal great
grandmother. Is it genes, is it culture or is it coincidence? I tend to
favout the first - she had never heard this tune yet she picked it up with
ease and continued to hum and sing it. It obviously struck some sort of
chord (no pun intended) with her. And I think that genetic influence helps
explain the affinity between the music of certain countries and commonality
of style. If that is the case then Irish music has more in common with China
than the Middle East or Africa.
Genetic memory might explain why I and other natives love Irish music. But
it doesn't explain why the music is so popular in non-Celtic countries ...
unless, of course, in those ancient days, there were a few Irishmen, with
fast horses and an eye for the girls .... Let us pray that none of them
reached Iran ... the thought that there's a drop of the pure in Mimikins'
veins is more than flesh and blood can endure.
> We know now that this geography is wrong, but classical authors (those
> for whom Ireland was indeed at the edge of the world) used to think
> that Spain was the other side of Ireland, probably about the same
> distance as Britain!
It was a dark land in ancient times because being at the edge of the known
world nobody went there. It still is at the extremity of Europe and that
obviously helped its developing a culture remarkably free of external
influence in those times. It still is a dark land... ask Mimikins ... for
the hound that harries him sprang from its mist shrouded bogs and the
shillelagh that thumps him came from its verdant pastures.
Of course we duly acknowledge the heart of steel and stout walls of English
oak off which his grapeshot and balls bounce!
>
> Paul
383
383
Finnegan's Wake
Stuck for a response yet again, o rancid racist one?
This is getting to be far too frequent an occurrence ... your peanut gallery
expects a much more robust approach than this.
Why don't you give us a few tunes ... whether Australian or Iranian or
American ... to reflect your shifting cultural sands? Just make sure they
aren't Irish ... that would grievously undermine your racist proclivities!