arealists?
Dan Fake
Would not all departing from that state of being
be accurately known as arealists?
Really, you're born, you're fed, clothed, nurtured,
and protected from harm, girded in that which is
the nature of being ...
And as you mature ...
The questions begin to arise ...
Where did I come from, why am I here, who am I,
where am I going, what's life all about, what's the
meaning of life ...?
And from a realistic viewpoint, the naturalistic answers
are your mom & dad, a result of sexual activity, a being,
unknown, life is what you make it, and the meaning of
life is to find the meaning of life ...
And in all of that, pray tell, would not realism be present?
Now, interject the supernatural, and what do you have but
arealism ...
So, henceforth and forevermore, atheists shall be known as
realists, and all the deviations from realism shall be referred
to as arealism ...
What do you think? Isn't life all about what you think about
it rather than de facto acceptance of the way those before
you thought about it? If so, if life is all about what you think
about it, why not think about it in a different way? Why not
realism and arealism, for a change, for a clearer and more
accurate way of viewing our one and only sure chance on
earth?
- - -
Some/many arealists make many claims about and attacks
upon realists via the venue of arealism or anti-realism or
arealist constructs which label realism and realists as evil
or in league with the devil, lost souls doomed to lives of
futility and despair, destined for immortal torment or
oblivion.
Some/many arealists use God as "the one and only" a priori
answer for all unknowns, and on that basis alone, attack
realism and realists from a position that realists lack that
answer for all unknowns. To those types of arealists, the fact
that their answer for all unknowns is 'make believe' or merely
convenient and presumptive and non-evidential makes no
difference. They have "the one and only" a priori answer
for all unknowns, and by God, they're bound and determined
to hold that over realists' heads.
Some/many arealists use God as the equivalent of good, and
on that basis alone attack realism and realists from a posi-
tion that realists lack that good known as God.
Some/many arealists use God as requisite for immortality,
attacking realists and realism because there is no immortality
construct tied into realism.
I could continue, but suffice to say, some/many arealists find
plenty of grounds for using their arealism against realism and
realists.
To put it plainly and simply, if an arealist views God and all
associated beliefs as 1 and Truth (optimum good) and all
beliefs opposite their optimum good as -1 and sinful and false
(optimum bad), therein resides their methodology for trying to
associate realists/realism with evil/untruth, rejecting realism on
that basis alone.
As for arealism promising immortality, is that playing
fair? After all, realists have nothing but reality to offer, but
most arealists assert that there is heaven awaiting if ______
[fill in claims here].
Also, speaking of playing fair, many arealists assert that there
is eternal damnation awaiting if ________ [fill in claims here],
and you better ________ [fill in claims here] or else.
Most arealists assert that they've got a friendly buddy one
can talk to (via prayer) and that buddy just happens to be
the supreme be-all end-all of the entire universe and all
realists have to offer is reality and human companionship,
so ...
To best achieve edification and enlightenment, perhaps it
would be well-advised for arealists to consider dismissing
their claimed Truths and promises and claims of answers
for all unknowns and their efforts to brainwash/indoctrinate
their children (and every child they can get their hands on)
into God fear/belief, valuing the advantages and veritability
of realism over the imaginations and deceit required for
arealism ...
- - -
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dan Fake, Pro-Humanist #1, FREELOVER #1,
who cares deeply about truth, freedom, and maxing
out this one and only experience we all know and
share, on this earth, at this time, in this life.
http://home.att.net/~danfake/prohumanism.htm
http://home.att.net/~danfake/freelover.htm
FREELOVER? Freethinking Realist Exploring Expressive
Liberty, Openness, Verity, Enlightenment, & Rationality
(also, pro-love, free from state and church authorities)
Origins: http://home.att.net/~danfake/origins.htm
Top Posts: http://home.att.net/~danfake/top_posts.htm
Books: http://home.att.net/~danfake/books_index.htm
Webpedia: http://home.att.net/~danfake/webpedia.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John B
<snip>
>
>To best achieve edification and enlightenment, perhaps it
>would be well-advised for arealists to consider dismissing
>their claimed Truths and promises and claims of answers
>for all unknowns and their efforts to brainwash/indoctrinate
>their children (and every child they can get their hands on)
>into God fear/belief, valuing the advantages and veritability
>of realism over the imaginations and deceit required for
>arealism ...
I don't get why the 'realists' of your system would waste their time arguing
with the 'arealists'. I also wonder if you've considered that the ideas of
'natural' and 'supernatural', could be disputed. The distinction is pretty
clear to a materialist, but to someone whose mind is muddled by New Age
"philosophy" or a spiritual doctrine of some kind, may not agree on what is
'natural' and what is 'unnatural' or 'supernatural'.
Your realists would have to prove that there was some benefit to everyone in
abandoning their unrealistic beliefs, They would also have to make a claim
to authority in order to require everyone to fall into line with your little
totalitarian agenda. If you were truly concerned about edification and
enlightenment, I don't think you'd be so vitriolic toward theistic belief.
Such a narrow view precludes both learning and the growth of wisdom.
JB
Dan Fake
>
> <snip>
> >
> >To best achieve edification and enlightenment, perhaps it
> >would be well-advised for arealists to consider dismissing
> >their claimed Truths and promises and claims of answers
> >for all unknowns and their efforts to brainwash/indoctrinate
> >their children (and every child they can get their hands on)
> >into God fear/belief, valuing the advantages and veritability
> >of realism over the imaginations and deceit required for
> >arealism ...
>
>
> I don't get why the 'realists' of your system would waste their time
> arguing with the 'arealists'.
In a reply to a post this morning on talk.atheism (to a young
man, age 15, who expressed severe trauma regarding his
exposure to arealism), I mentioned the fact that arealism (in
the form of religions/beliefs in magic beings) permeates our
culture and dramatically impacts (and I submit, in a deleter-
ious way) that which is our one and only sure chance at
existence.
Here is my reply to the young man which may help you under-
stand the risks entailed in the harmful nature of arealism ...
Some/many people of faith don't appreciate the damage and
harm that can result from foisting 'make believe' on folks and
treating 'make believe' as if it's requisite for existence. The
negativity that can occur when all powerful deity threats and
pressures are used is immense.
A note of hope, however ... if you have the time to read up on
some of my philosophies (see links in my sig), you might find
it of value to love those who have caused you pain (via their
religion/faith) and while passionately opposing the belief modus
operandi, itself, understanding that those who have succumbed
to it are humans who are victims, like you, of an exposure to
'make believe (treated as reality)' which can only be escaped if ...
1) They are educated on the actual nature of religions and the
origins of religions and the deleterious impact of religions upon
humankind in times past
2) They are encouraged and enabled to replace religion with
something of more verity, value, and hope than is the deceit
they've been misled by
3) They are uplifted and inspired to direct their energies in a
better way, a more pro-human way, so that humankind can be
free, truly free, for the first time in our short history (short history
when considered from the viewpoint of the vast evolutionary
period which eventually led to organized religion, farming, culture,
language), and ...
(finally, better late than never) a basic understanding of our natural
world (which, of course, we've only recently begun to explore) ...
we are like babies taking our first tentative steps into the unknown ...
if we survive, there is the hope that some day we will be free of
religious delusions and, instead, will live with the knowledge of
and an appreciation of / respect for / control over that which is the
actual nature of being ...
> I also wonder if you've considered that the ideas of
> 'natural' and 'supernatural', could be disputed. The distinction is pretty
> clear to a materialist, but to someone whose mind is muddled by New Age
> "philosophy" or a spiritual doctrine of some kind, may not agree on what is
> 'natural' and what is 'unnatural' or 'supernatural'.
Reality is. Imagination is filled with anything/everything you
wish ... such is the nature of arealism.
>
> Your realists would have to prove that there was some benefit to
> everyone in abandoning their unrealistic beliefs,
Evidence follows ...
Have you tried to cover up the unknown
with ... (072501)
http://home.att.net/~danfake/disbelief/cover_up_the_unknown.htm
"... belief in an almighty most powerful incredible
be-all end-all magnificent creator of everything /
granter-of-worthwhile benefits, including immor-
tality / damner-of-unworthy beings? ..."
- - -
All About Flavors (of gods/no gods)
(062601)
http://home.att.net/~danfake/disbelief/all_about_flavors.htm
"From the wide array of belief/disbelief
modalities, what's the best one, the best
flavor so to speak, do you think?"
- - -
Key Flaw of Christianity (062301)
http://home.att.net/~danfake/disbelief/key_flaw_of_christianity.htm
"... Is there any valid argument, by christians,
for a dogma of self-determination and 'free
will' yielding your immortal destiny, yet your
immortal destiny is dependent totally on the
dogma you're exposed to which is totally
outside of your control? ..."
- - -
Final Nail in the Coffin of Faith
(052401)
http://home.att.net/~danfake/disbelief/final_nail_in_the_coffin.htm
"... If you are of faith, any faith ... Yours is
nothing but a call to delusion if you ask me
to follow *your* claim, no evidence required.
Such is the nature of every superstitious
claim in the christian bible. Such is the
nature of every superstitious claim in every
holy document. Such is the final nail in the
coffin of faith, for anyone can claim anything,
but claiming it does not make it so. ..."
- - -
The Nature of Christian Brainwashing -
Immoral Path to Delusion (050101)
http://home.att.net/~danfake/disbelief/nature_of_brainwashing.htm
"... Cover up the downsides of religious
history, threaten children with eternal
damnation if they don't believe the chris-
tian view, and treat all other religions
and freedom from faith as works of de-
mons or unworthy of even being stud-
ied as to the facts regarding those
religions and freedom from faith? ..."
- - -
Future of a God-free Existence for ...
(040201)
http://home.att.net/~danfake/disbelief/future_of_god_free.htm
"... Christians who live in fear of such a thing,
with the following considerations ever-present
in your conscious and subconscious consid-
erations of doubt and disbelief ..."
- - -
Fear of Oblivion? (040201)
http://home.att.net/~danfake/disbelief/fear_of_oblivion.htm
"Fear not, for into this world you come as an
inevitable being in a world of wonder and from
here, should you depart, be of joy in knowing
you've done your best to know all you can and
to be all you can be. ..."
- - -
Love of Verity (042401)
http://home.att.net/~danfake/philosophy_freelover/love_of_verity.htm
"Is open-minded search for verity, in a real
world, free of faith and religious dogma, an
unwise endeavor by humankind? No, it can
be wise, caring, considerate, and complemen-
tary to pro-human views, when approached
from the standpoint of searching for and re-
specting truth and fulfillment in a natural
world of wonder. ... "
- - -
Grace (before a meal) (032901)
http://home.att.net/~danfake/philosophy_freelover/grace.htm
"... For those called to pray before a meal,
consider the following prayer of a pro-human
nature... "
- - -
Why Promote Freedom From Faith?
(022701)
http://home.att.net/~danfake/philosophy_freelover/freedom_from_faith.htm
"... We, the pro-human pro-free-speech
folks of the disbelief community, bother to
take the time and make the effort to connect
with the faithful in order to help people live
free, seek verity, and live out their one and
only sure shot at life in a full and meaningful
manner, for the good of the many and the
now, with respect to the truth of whatever
ultimate destiny nature has provided us
with..."
- - -
> They would also have to make a claim
> to authority in order to require everyone to fall into line with your little
> totalitarian agenda.
No, you're thinking of religion and threats of damnation
and promises of immortality, there. Realists are unburdened
with such things and it's up to each individual to assess the
evidence and freely choose whether or not arealism has as
much clout (in reality) as its proponents assert (in their
arealistic world view).
> If you were truly concerned about edification and
> enlightenment, I don't think you'd be so vitriolic toward theistic belief.
> Such a narrow view precludes both learning and the growth of wisdom.
Theism/arealism speaks for itself - look at history, study the
links listed above, and try to relate to the dangers inherent in
the arealistic approach to life ...
http://home.att.net/~danfake/history
-Dan Fake, Pro-Humanist FREELOVER
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John B
>"John B" <John_B...@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tltjq2...@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> <snip>
>> >
>> >To best achieve edification and enlightenment, perhaps it
>> >would be well-advised for arealists to consider dismissing
>> >their claimed Truths and promises and claims of answers
>> >for all unknowns and their efforts to brainwash/indoctrinate
>> >their children (and every child they can get their hands on)
>> >into God fear/belief, valuing the advantages and veritability
>> >of realism over the imaginations and deceit required for
>> >arealism ...
>>
>>
>> I don't get why the 'realists' of your system would waste their time
>> arguing with the 'arealists'.
>
>In a reply to a post this morning on talk.atheism (to a young
>man, age 15, who expressed severe trauma regarding his
>exposure to arealism), I mentioned the fact that arealism (in
>the form of religions/beliefs in magic beings) permeates our
>culture and dramatically impacts (and I submit, in a deleter-
>ious way) that which is our one and only sure chance at
>existence.
Does your definition of arealism include all forms of idealism, or only
those beliefs which are propagated by religions or beliefs in magic beings.
What about the positivist notions you seem to be espousing here, which are
no longer accepted by the scientific community or the major philosophers of
science? Positivist beliefs do not seem to reflect reality, yet you make
truth claims here, such as " Reality is. Imagination is filled with
anything/everything you
>wish ... such is the nature of arealism".
Reality is? the notion that anyone can approach reality objectively and
observe it without an interpretive framework or the influence of some
structural paradigm (religious or scientific) is false, as far as we know.
Research in physics and the philosophical ramifications of theories in
quantum, and particle dynamics has lead to the abandonment of the view of an
objective universe, passively observable to the trained eye. Most scientists
accept a statistical, rather than objective view of the universe. This is
not to sy that nothing can be known, but rather that the influence of the
observer can not be subtracted from the observation. Human beings are
participants in the unfolding of reality.
Given the developments in science since the realisation of uncertainty,
doesn't it seem to you that your beliefs about what qualifies as reality are
rather more your opinion than some kind of bare fact.
Although I am a materialist myself, I think it is intellectually dishonest
to present rational materialism as some kind of catalogue of objective
reality, while painting other belief systems as delusional fantasy. My
experience of different beliefs leads me to the conviction that
fundamentally there is no more proof or evidence for my atheist position
than there is proof or evidence for the theist position. Only the agnostic
can use the philosophy of science to support his beliefs. The atheist must
recognise that he has gone one step further, and denied something through
lack of evidence, rather than evidence of lack. An arbitrary position based
on personal feeling more than sound logical forms.
<snipped intolerant polemic>
JB
Dan Fake
Thanks for those points of view. I cannot find it within
myself to transfer arealistic speculation into anything other
than arealism and the unknown. Realistically, I know what
I can know and I know not (yet) what I know not (yet).
I call that unknown unknown and I perceive all supernatural
speculation regarding the unknown to be as valuable as
is the speculation that my keyboard will turn into a snake.
Fascinating, really, the world of arealism, for one can place
anything there they wish (especially if it's non-falsifiable)
but as for reality ...
You and I both know that it's unwise to stand in front of
a moving vehicle and expect the arealistic world view to
save you, for when it comes to dealing with the realities
of a naturalistic world, even the arealists recognize the
emptiness of arealism in facing up to that which is natural
law, really (in most cases although, unfortunately, some-
times the arealistic worldview impacts folks to such an
extent that they actually withhold medications from children
based on the arealistic worldview that it's in some magic
being's hands [just one example of the danger of arealism,
there]).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-Dan Fake, Pro-Humanist FREELOVER
http://home.att.net/~danfake
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> JB