More Bahai "art"
Frederick Glaysher
Maya Kaathryn Bohnhoff wrote:
>
> Frederick Glaysher wrote:
>
> > There is no art allowed in the Bahai Faith.... only propaganda....
> > what passes for "art" is really only the crudest banalities
> > permitted....
> >
> > --
> > Frederick Glaysher
> > UseNet: alt.religion.bahai
>
> Freddie,
> As a musician and a writer, I must take exception to your
> diatribe.
>
> The Faith has done nothing but free me as an artist rather
> than circumscribe. It has allowed me to approach old
> subjects with new viewpoint and vigor and has brought a
> passion to my work that often surprises even me.
>
> While I have had individual Baha'is tell me that my rock oriented
> music wasn't Baha'i or that one shouldn't sing of Baha'u'llah
> in the terms one usually reserves for a lover, or that the
> characters in my stories shouldn't use profanity because
> Baha'is shouldn't use profanity, I am bright enough to understand
> that those were individual opinions, like yours, and are not
> expressive of Baha'i doctrine. Besides, we all know what they
> say about opinions, don't we? Like certain anatomical
> features, everybody has one.
>
> Abdu'l-Baha says our thought is our reality. Your thought and
> your reality are apparently very bitter. You have my sympathy.
> But don't thrust your reality at me and expect me to accept it
> as mine or accept it without argument. Indeed, I have to ask why
> you find it necessary to impose your anger and angst on others
> at all.
The idea that our thought is our reality is a very old one,
preceding Abdu'l-Baha by several centuries at least.... Found,
for instance, in medieval Xian theology.... It's precisely this
idea that concerns me. Your characterization of my "reality" is
unfortunately colored by your own.... I certainly neither expect
you nor anyone else to accept anything "without argument" or the
free assent of your own conscience....
>
> The art that comes out of true faith is not propaganda, but an
> exploration of possibilities. I will explore the possibilities
> for myself and mankind in general as my faith dictates and
> neither you, with your cynical bluster, nor those who kindly
> offer the opinion that there is a "form" for Baha'i art
> will stop that exploration.
You're not as "free" in your exploration as you imagine....
>
> BTW, I supppose it's too much to hope that you found it significant
> that your mean-spirited comment was actually published on this
> supposedly censored newsgroup.
(soc.religion.bahai) which has yet to publish either....
>
> +----------------------------------------+
> | Maya Kaathryn Bohnhoff syn...@oro.net |
> +----------------------------------------+
> | "Nothing have I seen but that I |
> | perceived God within it, God before it,|
> | and God after it." - the Imam Husayn |
> +----------------------------------------+
--
Frederick Glaysher
UseNet: alt.religion.bahai
--
Frederick Glaysher
UseNet: alt.religion.bahai
Frederick Glaysher
Stephi Stevens wrote:
>
> Hmmmmmmm, for me there is something about your criticism of
> your so called "Baha'i Art" that smacks of the Western concept
> of art criticism. It seems incomplete, self-directed, and lacking
> justice.
There's a certain approach in the surrounding milieu which has
seeped into the Bahai Faith too that thinks when anything is
identified as "Western" the final word has been spoken.... I can't
imagine anyone who truly understands the intimate relation of the
critical faculty with the creative making such a comment....
>
> Perhaps instead of looking at this art from the Western viewpoint,
> it might be wiser to look at this art from a new viewpoint, one that
> reflects what we are all trying to learn from the Baha'i Teachings.
> Of course, you may not be Baha'i, in which case, excuse me for
> making assumptions.
I am a member of the Bahai Faith. Hitler and Stalin both urged a
"new" viewpoint for their appalling kitsch.... "socialist realism,"
etc.... Such an excuse rings hollow to me.
>
> But if you are not a Baha'i, then why are you passing judgment
> on our work? This is a new religion, still developing, still in its
> childhood stage. It's hardly fair to judge the art of a developing
> Faith by the same standards of past Faiths.
False. Only the most demanding standards of the past are worthy of
the present.... Anything else is an insult to the human spirit....
These Faiths have
> had thousands of years to find their artistic niche in the cosmos.
> We've only been here for one hundred and fifty odd years.
> Come on, we're trying to find ourselves, and anyone who is a
> teacher knows the best way to inspire people to do better is
> through praise, and certainly not through unjust criticism.
False. I taught literature for many years and the "encouragement"
travesty of modern education has ruined the critical faculties
of most young students....
>
> Now if you are a Baha'i, wouldn't you consider this an opportunity
> to practice loving patience with people who are not up to your
> artistic standards? I would dare say that if you create art, you
> yourself would not consider your art "Baha'i Art" in the best
> sense of the definition of "Baha'i Art". As you know, I do not
> consider most of what art is created today by artists who are
> Baha'i to be "Baha'i Art". I don't believe any of us know what
> that is yet, so it's impossible to create.
It's impossible also for it to develop, since fascist control
exerts itself on everyone's conscience....
>
> You know quite often in your statements the words "in
> my opinion" or something to that affect came up. Consider
> this, wouldn't it be wiser to find out for yourself what
> Baha'u'llah has to say about art, about creativity, about the
> power of choice, about love, about justice, about honesty,
> about wisdom and base your "opinions" on that, rather
> than on what you feel is right, that is if you are Baha'i?
The reality of human experience is not gainsaid by the idealism of
Baha'u'llah's Teachings....
>
> Loving regards,
> Stephi
> ste...@azstarnet.com
>
> >RMckin6046 wrote:
> >>
> >> Frederick:
> >>
> >> I was not unhappy with s.r.b. at all and have no personal problems
> >> with the moderated format, BUT I supported your desire to establish
> >> the alt.religion.bahai newsgroup because I agree that frank and free
> >> exchange of ideas is essentially healthy in this society. I have been
> >> unable to access directly alt.rel.bahai from aol, but I don't
> >> particularly try hard to either. That said: I was very disappointed
> >> in your last post here on the arts. It certainly made me wonder if I
> >> was right to support your proposal.
> >
> >You've been unable to access apparently for reasons I am not permitted
> >to elaborate on.... Since you are "very disappointed" in my views on
> >what passes for "art" in the Bahai Faith, you consider suppressing my
> >views? I don't quite follow how that would be supporting "frank and
> >free exchange," etc....
> >
> >>
> >> You said: "There is no art allowed in the Baha'i Faith... only
> >> propaganda.. what passes for "art" is really only the crudest
> >> banalities permitted...."
> >
> >That's the way I see it.... Philistinism only welcomed in this
> >religion--not the rich tensions of what is truly worthy of the
> >name of art.... Rich tensions grounded in the antinomies of
> >the human heart....
> >
> >>
> >> What a "cranky" and judgmental statement. I fancy myself a sometime
> >> artist, and I do not feel that I am being allowed only to produce
> >> propaganda; although, my little wood burnings, paintings and prose may
> >> indeed be banal.
> >
> >Or dilettante? That's the Bahai conception of artist in my opinion....
> >Quite congruent really with the philistinism of modern society in
> >most ways....
> >
> > On the other hand, I have several artworks produced
> >> by other Baha'is that I adore and have witnessed numerous singers and
> >> dancers and actors who are real artists.
> >
> >The more inarticulate the art the better in this religion....
> >
> > To characterize what they do
> >> the way you did is really insulting. I do not always "get" the modern
> >> dance stuff [I lean more to Gospel & classical dance/music], and the
> >> youth workshops sometimes leave me scratching my head, but who can
> >> deny their hard work, their devoted expression, their obvious energy
> >> and their love of their art... not to mention their love of
> >> Baha'u'llah? Besides you of course.
> >
> >Oh terrible me!!! Not insulting, accurate art criticism of the
> >usual tripe that's fobbed off as art in Bahai circles where art
> >is unknown, really.... Gross propaganda, what the poet Robert
> >Hayden was fond of calling "doctrinaire propaganda," is all the
> >Bahai Faith, by and large, has to offer or ALLOWS....
> >
> >>
> >> Very disappointed, and hoping that you retract your statement, or at
> >> least learn to keep such hurtful opinions to yourself,
> >
> >That's it.... Close your mouth and go away if you can't say
> >what we want to hear.... Precisely what philistines have said
> >and done....
> >
> >>
> >> Richard
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------
> >> Dr. Richard A McKinley
> >> Fayetteville NC USA
> >> RMcki...@aol.com & RMCK...@juno.com
> >
> >--
> >Frederick Glaysher
> >UseNet: alt.religion.bahai
--
Frederick Glaysher
UseNet: alt.religion.bahai
available on www.dejanews.com, www.reference.com,
and www.zippo.com, or ask your ISP to add it.
--
Frederick Glaysher
UseNet: alt.religion.bahai
available on www.dejanews.com, www.reference.com,
and www.zippo.com, or ask your ISP to add it.