Addressing Francophobia
Ilya the Bat
that is for the most part based on error and misconception. This essay
seeks to correct those mistakes.
The French thought formed the basis of American democracy. American
Revolution and its founding principles was the expression of French
18th century thought known as “French Enlightenment,” and the French
saw America as the embodiment of their ideals, whereas the English saw
America as a province of ungrateful traitors. The French provided
crucial assistance to American Revolution, and without their help -
both informing the Independence and assisting the Revolution - America
would not have existed as what it is and likely would not have existed
at all. So before Americans speak about “saving French’s ass,” it
behoves them to look back to what, and who, made it possible for
America to exist as a country - and what, and who, sustained America
through its darkest times.
There are many who call the French cowards and sneer at their supposed
military weakness. Lest we forget, France had Napoleon over a century
before Germany had Hitler, and Napoleon conquered a comparable section
of Europe as did Hitler without committing anywhere close to Hitler’s
level of crimes against mankind. For a culture that does not place
priority on militarism and instead values such things as art and
cultivation and human rights, that is quite an accomplishment; and to
mistake civilization or love of peace for cowardice or weakness is an
error that has lead to demise of many barbaric thugs. Quite simply,
this is a culture that does not place priority on these matters and
should be seen for accomplishments in matters on which it does place
priority. And yes, it also has military accomplishment; which one
would not expect normally from such a country, and which is to its
credit.
There are others who talk about America “saving the French‘s ass” in
the two world wars. In fact, American involvement in both wars had
very little to do with the French. In the First World War, Americans
came into the war when the Germans sunk an American ship. That is a
valid reason for entering a war, but it had nothing to do with saving
anyone. In the Second World War, France was conquered in 1940;
Americans landed in Europe in 1944. This happened after the Soviets
had already defeated the Germans and were driving them back. And the
most likely cause for coming in at that date and not before that date,
is not wanting to see Stalin go to Berlin, then Paris, then London,
then Omaha. That, is likewise a valid reason for waging a war; but
once again it had nothing to do with the French.
The Americans and the French (indeed Western Europe) became hostile
cultures after the Second World War because Americans and Europeans
learned different lessons from the Second World War. The Europeans
(led by the French thinkers) decided that war as well as nationalist
militarism is wrong, and that things should be done in a peaceful,
diplomatic, civil and cultured way. The Americans decided that they
were the greatest and could not only spit on everyone else’s
accomplishments, but also control the world through coercive military
and economic means. This made the former friends into rivals; but
something happened of even greater significance:
The ideals behind American Revolution went back to Europe; and Europe
adopted America’s best traits, while America adopted many of Europe’s
ugliest ones.
Which means that, at this time, the support for America’s founding
principles means support for people and places who embody them the
most. And that is now scattered all over the world, with higher
concentration in many parts of Europe than in the Republican parts of
the United States. The human rights, democratic, ideal, is neither the
brainchild of America nor solely belongs to America, and is more
advanced in many parts of the world and among many people than it is
among America‘s self-proclaimed “patriots.” And while we may not see
the Statue of Liberty coming back to Paris, the thought behind it is
now very much an aspect of Europe and growing there, whereas America
falls shorter and shorter of its revolutionary ideals with every
election stolen, every person imprisoned and tortured without due
process, everyone convicted through profiling and without evidence,
everyone demonized for thinking differently, every new set of abuses
in the name of community or tradition or religion or sanity, and
tightening of the noose through these methods around American people’s
necks.
http://www.myspace.com/ibshambat
http://ibshambat7.blogspot.com
Immortalist
> In many parts of America, there is a very strong anti-French sentiment
> that is for the most part based on error and misconception. This essay
> seeks to correct those mistakes.
>
> The French thought formed the basis of American democracy. American
> Revolution and its founding principles was the expression of French
> 18th century thought known as “French Enlightenment,” and the French
> saw America as the embodiment of their ideals, whereas the English saw
> America as a province of ungrateful traitors. The French provided
> crucial assistance to American Revolution, and without their help -
> both informing the Independence and assisting the Revolution - America
> would not have existed as what it is and likely would not have existed
> at all. So before Americans speak about “saving French’s ass,” it
> behoves them to look back to what, and who, made it possible for
> America to exist as a country - and what, and who, sustained America
> through its darkest times.
>
I was just reading some chapters out of
People's History of the United States: 1492 to Present
by Howard Zinn
http://www.amazon.com/Peoples-History-United-States-Present/dp/0060838655
in which he described how one of the wars Fance was in caused then to
pull out of America and how the colonists, who were opposed to British
colonization, demonized the French and were glad they were out since
now they only had British hegmony left to destroy.
Of course some think racism against Indians and Blacks & maybe women
began to take american form there so that the revolutionaries could
somehow gain more power against the British, but I am not clear on
this interesting thesis I didn't notice the other 20 times I read the
book. Strange consequence of balancing enough interests to cause a
revolution or somethng.
> http://www.myspace.com/ibshambathttp://ibshambat7.blogspot.com
rone
rone
--
"If any man is not free, then I, too, am a small pie made of chicken."
-- Bouffant, /Thoughts/ (Terry Pratchett)
chazwin
> In many parts of America, there is a very strong anti-French sentiment
> that is for the most part based on error and misconception. This essay
> seeks to correct those mistakes.
>
> The French thought formed the basis of American democracy. American
> Revolution and its founding principles was the expression of French
> 18th century thought known as “French Enlightenment,” and the French
> saw America as the embodiment of their ideals, whereas the English saw
> America as a province of ungrateful traitors.
You forget that Britain was the "pearl of freethought", provinding
David Hume and Thomas Paine and other great thinkers that laid the
foundation for Liberty in Europe such as Boswell and Burke. England is
where Rousseau found sanctuary, and the country praised for it freedom
by Voltaire. This is where Hobbes wrote Leviathan, and the home of
Locke and John Stuart Mill. You forget that ALL the founding fathers
were British. If it were not for the tolerance and free thinking that
was permitted by British culture, there would never have been a
declaration of independance in the first place. How many French
colonies fought for independance? The British had already had their
bloody revolution a century before, and whilst England might have been
accused of peeking too early, the French were certainly behind the
times.
> The French provided
> crucial assistance to American Revolution, and without their help -
> both informing the Independence and assisting the Revolution
Yes but this was "help" from the Louis, the tyrrant of Europe that
denied all freedoms to its own people, and was about to face the
greatest revolution of all time. He was motivated by an urge to deny
England power in the Americas for fear of British Liberty coming over
the British channel. Louis' plan backfired and the help he provide the
burgeoning USA helped to encourage dissent on his own doorstep leading
to the French Revolution.
- America
> would not have existed as what it is and likely would not have existed
> at all. So before Americans speak about “saving French’s ass,” it
> behoves them to look back to what, and who, made it possible for
> America to exist as a country - and what, and who, sustained America
> through its darkest times.
History is not always as presented in the American High School
curriculum.
There are good reasons why the US is anti-French: the French are
pursuing an anti-Iraq conflict policy.
>
> There are many who call the French cowards and sneer at their supposed
> military weakness. Lest we forget, France had Napoleon over a century
> before Germany had Hitler, and Napoleon conquered a comparable section
> of Europe as did Hitler without committing anywhere close to Hitler’s
> level of crimes against mankind.
Napoleon was the unintended consequence of the French Revolution. He
sat back the path of Liberty 200 years. The British empire held out
against this maniacal magalomaniac nutcase for many years, until
finally defeating him. He not only set back liberty in France but, in
order that the British could maintain the war-effort, the growth of
liberty had to wait for the outcome of Waterloo before it could start
up again.
Mark Edwards
>Who's afraid of Generalissimo Francisco Franco? He's dead, you know.
Still? You'd think by now...
Mark Edwards
--
Proof of Sanity Forged Upon Request
ZerkonX
> Napoleon conquered a comparable section of Europe as did Hitler without
> committing anywhere close to Hitler’s level of crimes against mankind.
It is time.
Hitler is no longer the benchmark for destruction nor for crimes against
humankind nor is Napoleon the superlative for power gone mad.
Mark Edwards
>Hitler is no longer the benchmark for destruction nor for crimes against
>humankind nor is Napoleon the superlative for power gone mad.
Dammit, you promised not to out me until NEXT year. The Mad Scientists
Guild will be receiving my formal complaint.
BretC...@peoplepc.com
> adopted America’s best traits, while America adopted many of Europe’s
> ugliest ones.
Europeans stole _our_ freedom!
Bret Cahill
^@%>---*=#
<BretC...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
news:47cbcbbe-a4b1-401a...@z24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>Europeans stole _our_ freedom!
freedom begins between the ears.
if it leaks out it deserves to be stolen
norbu....@gmail.com
> <BretCah...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
Nice point `@%> ....except the idea of "deserves"....seems a bit
vindictive...
for what? Being indoctrinated as a child?
Anyhoo, the "American Revolution", good idea or not was only supported
by a third
of the *colonial* populace, another third remained loyal to the crown,
and a third were undecided.
This might have been one of the bad examples that lead to the Maoist
dictum that political
power stems from the barrel of a gun.
Far from being "democratic" the revolution was caused by a violent
minority.
The Loyalists refugees and many of the undecided fled to the north
(what would
later become "Canada") - The Native Peoples were never consulted and
we see how "fairly" they
were later treated by the United States. Canada followed suit with
abuses, but not quite
equaling their southern kin in atrocities. The Residential Schools
were are more recent atrocity
but not quite equal to the death marches and such, nor the abuses of
Southern Slavery, Northen
Factories, etc...
...land of the free...
- n.
^@%>---*=#
<norbu....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8e12ddfc-dbe4-4c9c...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On May 6, 11:04 pm, "^@%>---*=#" <yom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> <BretCah...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
>
> news:47cbcbbe-a4b1-401a...@z24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > The ideals behind American Revolution went back to Europe; and Europe
> > adopted America’s best traits, while America adopted many of Europe’s
> > ugliest ones.
> >Europeans stole _our_ freedom!
>
> freedom begins between the ears.
> if it leaks out it deserves to be stolen
>Nice point `@%> ....except the idea of "deserves"....seems a bit
>vindictive...
those who leak freedom from their ears
may need a little vindictiveness. the world
tends to divide and conquer itself into
victims and victimizers. if you don't follow
the patterns of victimizer you may get
taken to be just another victim.
>for what? Being indoctrinated as a child?
yes, that balkrishna principle, the beingness
without much of the identification milieu in
place. to be young and stupid, pure bliss.
>Anyhoo, the "American Revolution", good idea or not was only supported
>by a third
>of the *colonial* populace, another third remained loyal to the crown,
>and a third were undecided.
all things thrice compounded ?
>This might have been one of the bad examples that lead to the Maoist
>dictum that political
>power stems from the barrel of a gun.
this too shall pass
>Far from being "democratic" the revolution was caused by a violent
>minority.
>The Loyalists refugees and many of the undecided fled to the north
>(what would
>later become "Canada") - The Native Peoples were never consulted and
>we see how "fairly" they
>were later treated by the United States. Canada followed suit with
>abuses, but not quite
>equaling their southern kin in atrocities. The Residential Schools
>were are more recent atrocity
>but not quite equal to the death marches and such, nor the abuses of
>Southern Slavery, Northen
>Factories, etc...
>...land of the free...
pack yer bags and move
norbu....@gmail.com
> <norbu.tra...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:8e12ddfc-dbe4-4c9c...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On May 6, 11:04 pm, "^@%>---*=#" <yom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > <BretCah...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:47cbcbbe-a4b1-401a...@z24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > The ideals behind American Revolution went back to Europe; and Europe
> > > adopted America’s best traits, while America adopted many of Europe’s
> > > ugliest ones.
> > >Europeans stole _our_ freedom!
>
> > freedom begins between the ears.
> > if it leaks out it deserves to be stolen
> >Nice point `@%> ....except the idea of "deserves"....seems a bit
> >vindictive...
>
> those who leak freedom from their ears
> may need a little vindictiveness.
i would say that they just need to remember what freedom implies,
the path there to, the rights and responsibilities...
"Vindictiveness" implies revenge, causing harm to others...The endless
sorts
of blood feuds we see played out around the world in tribal/racial/
nationalist wars.
There is no end to "Your uncle killed my cousin so I'll kill your
sister..."
> the world
> tends to divide and conquer itself into
> victims and victimizers. if you don't follow
> the patterns of victimizer you may get
> taken to be just another victim.
In Transactional Analysis that would be called a "script" -
if you buy into that script you become a prisoner of it.
We can see many examples of people who were "victimized",
vow never to be victimized again, and so become victimizers.
Abused children who go on to become child abusers.
If you do not buy into the script you do not have to play
that game at all. Oppressive governments and revolutionaries
breed on each other's violence. To break the cycle of violence
you have to step outside of us vs. them script.
We have seen the revolution win to become the same
as the old boss more than enough times.
>
> >for what? Being indoctrinated as a child?
>
> yes, that balkrishna principle, the beingness
> without much of the identification milieu in
> place. to be young and stupid, pure bliss.
...
>
> >Anyhoo, the "American Revolution", good idea or not was only supported
> >by a third
> >of the *colonial* populace, another third remained loyal to the crown,
> >and a third were undecided.
>
> all things thrice compounded ?
Did i say all things? i'd have to dredge through dozens of history
books if you want
ref for this rough break-down...seems to be the average numbers for
the American
Revolution...
>
> >This might have been one of the bad examples that lead to the Maoist
> >dictum that political
> >power stems from the barrel of a gun.
>
> this too shall pass
Not if you're either a victim or victimizer.
>
> >Far from being "democratic" the revolution was caused by a violent
> >minority.
> >The Loyalists refugees and many of the undecided fled to the north
> >(what would
> >later become "Canada") - The Native Peoples were never consulted and
> >we see how "fairly" they
> >were later treated by the United States. Canada followed suit with
> >abuses, but not quite
> >equaling their southern kin in atrocities. The Residential Schools
> >were are more recent atrocity
> >but not quite equal to the death marches and such, nor the abuses of
> >Southern Slavery, Northen
> >Factories, etc...
> >...land of the free...
>
> pack yer bags and move
i did. 14 years ago from L.A. Calif. to British Columbia,Canada.
Earthquakes, Floods, Fires, Plagues, Riots, Gangs, Pollution, Rabid
Media, Police State -
- not a place i wanted my children to grow up...
They have grown up free, neither victims or victimizers.
Are you free?
- n.
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
? <norbu....@gmail.com> ???a?e st? µ???µa
news:cd046786-9fcc-4070...@a9g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
On May 7, 7:06 am, "^@%>---*=#" <yom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> <norbu.tra...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:8e12ddfc-dbe4-4c9c...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On May 6, 11:04 pm, "^@%>---*=#" <yom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > <BretCah...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:47cbcbbe-a4b1-401a...@z24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > The ideals behind American Revolution went back to Europe; and Europe
> > > adopted America’s best traits, while America adopted many of Europe’s
> > > ugliest ones.
> > >Europeans stole _our_ freedom!
>
> > freedom begins between the ears.
> > if it leaks out it deserves to be stolen
> >Nice point `@%> ....except the idea of "deserves"....seems a bit
> >vindictive...
>
> those who leak freedom from their ears
> may need a little vindictiveness.
i would say that they just need to remember what freedom implies,
the path there to, the rights and responsibilities...
"Vindictiveness" implies revenge, causing harm to others...The endless
sorts
of blood feuds we see played out around the world in tribal/racial/
nationalist wars.
There is no end to "Your uncle killed my cousin so I'll kill your
sister..."
<end quote>
matthew 6:38 retaliation
Been said by the Lord 2000 years ago.
...
Are you free?
--
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering
mechanized infantry reservist
hordad AT otenet DOT gr
^@%>---*=#
"Tzortzakakis Dimitrios" <no...@nospam.void> wrote in message
news:fvv0e7$g2s$1...@mouse.otenet.gr...
>
> ? <norbu....@gmail.com> ???a?e st? ľ???ľa
> On May 7, 7:06 am, "^@%>---*=#" <yom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> <norbu.tra...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:8e12ddfc-dbe4-4c9c...@i36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> On May 6, 11:04 pm, "^@%>---*=#" <yom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > <BretCah...@peoplepc.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >news:47cbcbbe-a4b1-401a...@z24g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > > The ideals behind American Revolution went back to Europe; and Europe
>> > > adopted America's best traits, while America adopted many of Europe's
>> > > ugliest ones.
>> > >Europeans stole _our_ freedom!
>>
>> > freedom begins between the ears.
>> > if it leaks out it deserves to be stolen
>> >Nice point `@%> ....except the idea of "deserves"....seems a bit
>> >vindictive...
>>
>> those who leak freedom from their ears
>> may need a little vindictiveness.
>
> i would say that they just need to remember what freedom implies,
> the path there to, the rights and responsibilities...
yep. and when one allows that
leak to effulge it is one's own
responsibility for freedom
between the ears and not some
alleged freedom thief as such.
> "Vindictiveness" implies revenge, causing harm to others...The endless
> sorts
> of blood feuds we see played out around the world in tribal/racial/
> nationalist wars.
> There is no end to "Your uncle killed my cousin so I'll kill your
> sister..."
> <end quote>
> matthew 6:38 retaliation
> Been said by the Lord 2000 years ago.
you were there ?
>> the world
>> tends to divide and conquer itself into
>> victims and victimizers. if you don't follow
>> the patterns of victimizer you may get
>> taken to be just another victim.
>
> In Transactional Analysis that would be called a "script" -
> if you buy into that script you become a prisoner of it.
> We can see many examples of people who were "victimized",
> vow never to be victimized again, and so become victimizers.
> Abused children who go on to become child abusers.
> If you do not buy into the script you do not have to play
> that game at all. Oppressive governments and revolutionaries
> breed on each other's violence. To break the cycle of violence
> you have to step outside of us vs. them script.
> We have seen the revolution win to become the same
> as the old boss more than enough times.
never fear. this too shall pass.
>>
>> >for what? Being indoctrinated as a child?
>>
>> yes, that balkrishna principle, the beingness
>> without much of the identification milieu in
>> place. to be young and stupid, pure bliss.
>
> ...
>
>>
>> >Anyhoo, the "American Revolution", good idea or not was only supported
>> >by a third
>> >of the *colonial* populace, another third remained loyal to the crown,
>> >and a third were undecided.
>>
>> all things thrice compounded ?
>
> Did i say all things? i'd have to dredge through dozens of history
> books if you want
> ref for this rough break-down...seems to be the average numbers for
> the American
> Revolution...
man's genetic heritage animal
nature needs time to play out
in evolutionary cycles
>>
>> >This might have been one of the bad examples that lead to the Maoist
>> >dictum that political
>> >power stems from the barrel of a gun.
>>
>> this too shall pass
>
> Not if you're either a victim or victimizer.
all things will pass
norbu....@gmail.com
> ? <norbu.tra...@gmail.com> ???a?e st? µ???µanews:cd046786-9fcc-4070...@a9g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
Seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things
shall be added unto you.
(Matthew 6:38)
2600 years ago the Lord Buddha said :
In this world
Hate never yet dispelled hate.
Only love dispels hate.
This is the law,
Ancient and inexhaustible.
Dhammapada I, 5
In Matthew we again find:
You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a
tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone
strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if
someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak
as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.
Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who
wants to borrow from you.
—Matthew 5:38-42, NIV
Obsessions do wear out in time, sadly they are usually replaced with
other obsessions...
the root insecurity fails and grasps over and over again, maybe
eventually learning a bit
by trial and error...
>
>
>
>
>
> > >Far from being "democratic" the revolution was caused by a violent
> > >minority.
> > >The Loyalists refugees and many of the undecided fled to the north
> > >(what would
> > >later become "Canada") - The Native Peoples were never consulted and
> > >we see how "fairly" they
> > >were later treated by the United States. Canada followed suit with
> > >abuses, but not quite
> > >equaling their southern kin in atrocities. The Residential Schools
> > >were are more recent atrocity
> > >but not quite equal to the death marches and such, nor the abuses of
> > >Southern Slavery, Northen
> > >Factories, etc...
> > >...land of the free...
>
> > pack yer bags and move
>
> i did. 14 years ago from L.A. Calif. to British Columbia,Canada.
> Earthquakes, Floods, Fires, Plagues, Riots, Gangs, Pollution, Rabid
> Media, Police State -
> - not a place i wanted my children to grow up...
> They have grown up free, neither victims or victimizers.
>
> Are you free?
Seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things
shall be added unto you.
(Matthew 6:38)
If God is Love His Kingdom is Friendlness, His righteousness is not
the sword but Compassion
and Forgiving just as He gave his Son; with grace then we can make
smooth the rough,
mend broken ties:
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive them that trespass against us.
and then and "all these things shall be added unto you." :
thy kingdom come;
thy will be done,
in earth as it is in heaven.
The Buddha said in Dhammapada I :
But whoever follows the way
Is joyful here and joyful there
In both worlds he rejoices
And how greatly
When he sees the good he has done.
For great is the harvest in this world,
And greater still in the next.
However many holy words you read,
However many you speak,
What good will they do you
If you do not act upon them?
Are you a shepherd
Who counts another man's sheep,
Never sharing the way?
Read a few words as you like
And speak fewer.
But act upon the way.
Give up the old ways-
Addiction/using others, hatred, and ignoring.
Know the truth and find peace.
Share the way.
........
:)
oTTo
--oTTo--
David DeLaney
>Ribbet!
We've upped our speeed limit, now UP YOURS!
>--oTTo--
Dave "thanks for checking in; it's your turn on the operating table next
month, you know" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Ilya the Bat
Well, yeah. Hitler has rivals, no doubt about that.
In terms of the graphic quality of evil, Pol Pot and Amin are at about
his level, with Stalin and Inquisition in close range.
In terms of number of people killed, Mao and Stalin are tied with him,
and Islamic expansionism and European imperialism trump all three.
In terms of the lasting destruction done, he is not near the top,
though not for lack of trying. He wasn't around long enough to do
that, and virtually all the cultures that he tried to destroy still
exist. That one would be a tie between Mongols, Muslims, Vandals and
Spanish imperialists, with honorable mention for Mao's "Cultural
Revolution."
There is a phenomenon now that is characterologically similar to the
last one. The people involved want to destroy the existing culture
without replacing it with anything better, and their agenda takes the
same form as did Mao's cultural revolution - destruction of everything
beautiful while failing to create anything beautiful in its place. One
term for this is political correctness; another term is the feminazis;
a more precise term would be femi-Maoists. And it is the genuine
women's rights agenda and genuine liberalism that are most injured by
this misdirection.
Transformations are good when they lead to improved state of affairs.
We do not see that here.
Day Brown
> Transformations are good when they lead to improved state of affairs.
> We do not see that here.
monarchy because, like a family business, the leadership gave more
consideration to the later generations that'd inherit the business.
The masses only give lip service to this, as we see with the looming
social security unfunded liability problem. Democracy tends to evolve
into an extended pyramid scheme.
Hitler did a buncha nasty shit, like exterminating and sterilizing those
they viewed unfit. They were not very good at deciding. Nevertheless, it
took remarkable fitness and smarts to survive WWII, and as a result, the
German population is more fit, just as Hitler hoped.
I see some growing awareness among women, that if what they want is more
competent caretakers and case managers for the next generation, the more
competent women will have to bear them, and cut back on the birthrates
for the client classes.
Fundamentalist clerics do not regard that as an improvement.
ibsh...@gmail.com
> There is the question of pay now, or pay later. Machiavelli preferred
> monarchy because, like a family business, the leadership gave more
> consideration to the later generations that'd inherit the business.
Yes, but not to the people. They cared about their own children, not
children of others in the country or anywhere else.
> The masses only give lip service to this, as we see with the looming
> social security unfunded liability problem. Democracy tends to evolve
> into an extended pyramid scheme.
Sometimes democracies become idiocracies. That's not true of all
democracies - we are not seeing the same thing happen in European
Union, and we did not see the same in America under Clinton or
Theodore Roosevelt or Lincoln or a few others. I do not see this as a
feature of the political system, but rather of people's values. There
is a strong anti-intellectual influence in America. I am not sure why
it is so prevalent now, but I date it back to Voltaire. A society of
people "tending to their own garden" creates a society of ignorant
people who know nothing except their back yard.
> Hitler did a buncha nasty shit, like exterminating and sterilizing those
> they viewed unfit. They were not very good at deciding. Nevertheless, it
> took remarkable fitness and smarts to survive WWII, and as a result, the
> German population is more fit, just as Hitler hoped.
It took more remarkable fitness and smarts to survive WWII if one were
not in Germany, but in a country invaded by Germany. Russians were
caught between Stalin, who was exterminating anyone he saw as a threat
(anyone who was especially smart or fit, that is) and fighting the
war, which required everyone else to become both fit and smart. So
that was two conflicting influences, and I think they may have
canceled out each other.
> I see some growing awareness among women, that if what they want is more
> competent caretakers and case managers for the next generation, the more
> competent women will have to bear them, and cut back on the birthrates
> for the client classes.
>
> Fundamentalist clerics do not regard that as an improvement.
As if they were ever right about anything.
As someone else said,
"Fundamentalism:
Fund = give money to; amentalism = brainlessness."
Day Brown
> Sometimes democracies become idiocracies. That's not true of all
> democracies - we are not seeing the same thing happen in European
> Union, and we did not see the same in America under Clinton or
> Theodore Roosevelt or Lincoln or a few others. I do not see this as a
> feature of the political system, but rather of people's values. There
> is a strong anti-intellectual influence in America. I am not sure why
> it is so prevalent now, but I date it back to Voltaire. A society of
> people "tending to their own garden" creates a society of ignorant
> people who know nothing except their back yard.
have been raised on sugar cereals, junkfood, and soda. Lots didnt do so
well on it; dietary deficit and contamination precluded maximal mental
development.
The Boomers were the last generation raised on food grown on family
farms rather than agribusiness and petrochemicals. That has a lot to do
with why their music and films are still so popular.
Gibbon noted that all the emperors who grew up in Rome were disasters-
Nero, Caligula, and Commodus come to mind- while all the remarkably
successful leaders, Trajan, Hadrian, Diocletian, Justinian, all grew up
on farms out in the boonies.
But now, we have the forensic data on Aristocratic skeletons showing
high lead levels. Which turns out came mostly from "garum", which was on
every upscale table like catsup. But the high acid fish sauce was kept
in a *lead* bottle. It was also upscale to throw out pottery, and cook
with lead pots.
Archeology found over 100 wild plants and animals in the stomachs of bog
bodies and the bone middens of farms & villages. And now we see that
these provided essential trace minerals- Zinc, Iron, Copper, Manganese,
etc and micronutrients plants absorb from the biota in natural,
"organic" soils- that are needed by some of the 150 or so
neurotransmitters when laying down new neural pathways in the brain...
to maximize mental development.
You might grow up to be rational and smart anyway, but lots have ADD,
ADHD, Autism, or become neurotic wrecks. Hence all the ad hominum in the
postings. The TV says the national autism rate is 1:155. In my neck of
Ozark woods, which still has mostly family farms, its more like 1:4000,
and the posted rate for the Amish is 1:15,000.
Robt, Kaplan, "Imperial Grunts" reports that half the Green Berets grew
up on family farms. This is but 1% of the population providing 50% of
the nation's most competent soldiers. That has a lot to do with why the
Arkansas hill town schools still work, and why increasing numbers of
parents are moving here to raise their kids.
Transnationals have figured it out also, have been investing in towns
that ring these hills so much that manufacturing jobs are INCREASING. In
NW AR, there is now a net immigration from Silicon valley and other high
tech regions by engineers and professionals.
The Eu has never been into junkfood as much as the US. They have tried
to retain their traditional diets. In like manner most of the hill towns
here dont have any fast food outlets, but they do have fruit & veggie
stands for homegrown local produce. Leslie AR, a town near me, has had
an organic sourdough bakery for over 20 years. Pop 627.
These are spoze to be stupid hillbillies. But when my son graduated from
Leslie high in 1996, 20% of his class scored over the 95th percentile.
Smart parents are picking up on this, and its having a hothouse effect.
They are more emotionally stable, so job turn over is lower, and this is
causing more employers to invest here.
There never was polluting industry, and the land is too steep for
agribusiness, so the environment is pristine. Which is one reason why
the rivers here draw upscale fly rod trout fishermen, and why the Army
corps of engineers is vigorous in protecting the watersheds. So- not
only can you swim in these rivers and creeks, you can drink it. That's
where my tap water comes from. parents who care about a healthy diet for
their kids also want the clean environment, and of course, they are the
smarter parents to start with. Which relates to Kaplan's book.
John D Salt
@newsfe20.lga:
[Snips]
> In general, agreed. As to why, for a few generations now, American kids
> have been raised on sugar cereals, junkfood, and soda.
[Snips]
> But now, we have the forensic data on Aristocratic skeletons showing
> high lead levels. Which turns out came mostly from "garum",
I rather like the idea of two giant empires declining and falling because
of the malign influence of ketchup. Can anyone find a way of blaming the
pernicious habit of putting vinegar on chips for the decline of the British
Empire?
> which was on every upscale table like catsup.
Messy eaters, those patricians.
[Snips]
> These are spoze to be stupid hillbillies. But when my son graduated from
> Leslie high in 1996, 20% of his class scored over the 95th percentile.
20% above the 95th percentile. Wow. I bet eveyone got higher than the
median score, right?
All the best,
John.
Day Brown
>> But now, we have the forensic data on Aristocratic skeletons showing
>> high lead levels. Which turns out came mostly from "garum",
>
> I rather like the idea of two giant empires declining and falling because
> of the malign influence of ketchup. Can anyone find a way of blaming the
> pernicious habit of putting vinegar on chips for the decline of the British
> Empire?
when they respected tribal religious traditions.
The Treaty of Tripoli, signed by the President and ratified by the US
senate says:"The United States is not a Christian Nation." This allowed
US interests to be pursued in the Islamic world very successfully. The
American empire continued to expand until Christians took over control
of the government and tried to apply Christian values. eg, on abortion.
> 20% above the 95th percentile. Wow. I bet eveyone got higher than the
> median score, right?
Not everyone, but when you look at the school reports of these small
hill towns, they AVERAGE from the 55th to the 65th. Most of the really
dumb fuck methheads moved to the city where the welfare benefits were
more generous, and they didnt havta chop firewood.
John D Salt
> John D Salt wrote:
[Snips]
>> because of the malign influence of ketchup. Can anyone find a way of
>> blaming the pernicious habit of putting vinegar on chips for the
>> decline of the British Empire?
> I'd blame that on Christianity. The Romans did much better as pagans
> when they respected tribal religious traditions.
I don't see how you can blame Christianity for malt vinegar abuse. The
only specifically Christian foodstuffs I can think of are bread, wine,
and chocolate eggs, all of which I heartily approve of, but none of which
would go well on chips.
Given the strength of traditional British cuisine in strong-flavour dark-
brown substances, I can't help feeling that the British Empire might
still be alive today if only someone had contrived to devise, say, a
spatterable liquid form of Patum Peperium as a chip-dressing. But one
never knows if HM Imperial Food Scientists would have chosen the right
brown substance; something based on Lea & Perrin's would maybe have been
all right, but one runs a terrible risk of Marmite. Perhaps the twiglet
is the failed remnant of what was once hoped to be the safwguard of
Imperial snacking.
> The Treaty of Tripoli, signed by the President and ratified by the US
> senate says:"The United States is not a Christian Nation." This
> allowed US interests to be pursued in the Islamic world very
> successfully. The American empire continued to expand until Christians
> took over control of the government and tried to apply Christian
> values. eg, on abortion.
We seem to have wandered quite a long way off the topic of what
imperialists put on their chips. If there is any connection between
abortion and tomato ketchup, I don't want to hear about it.
>> 20% above the 95th percentile. Wow. I bet eveyone got higher than
>> the median score, right?
> Not everyone, but when you look at the school reports of these small
> hill towns, they AVERAGE from the 55th to the 65th. Most of the really
> dumb fuck methheads moved to the city where the welfare benefits were
> more generous, and they didnt havta chop firewood.
I see that your statistical irony filters are 55% more badly clogged than
the anchovy filters at Prince Albert's tank in Elsenham.
A Golden Gokmop Point to anyone except Andrew Pearson who can point out
the callback, and a further point for identifying the connection with
Buddhism.
All the best,
John.