Mindfulness practice explained
Mr Freakyman
frustrated and sorry for yourself when someone comes up to you and
says:" Shall I show you how those bad feelings can come to an end?"
"Oh, yes please!" You respond.
"Carefully, attentively, bang your head against that brick wall."
_____
freakyman
Ch'an Fu
yer such a wienie! :)
Green Eddie
"Mr Freakyman" <wind@thecrossroads> wrote in message
news:2003062902035867665@thecrossroads...
Shhhhh!!!!!! That's Buddhism !!!
Tang Huyen
Mr Freakyman wrote:
Mr Freakyman is Brian Mitchell, and
the above was posted on 29 Jun 2003.
Tang Huyen
norbu....@gmail.com
wrote:
hmmm...i don't know what "Brian Mitchell"'s practice was/is like,
but that seems like rather good advice about how to start
the path with honesty...
What else could anyone do other than go off to happy fairy la-la-land?
- n. :)
Dave K
>
> - Show quoted text -
Among Tang's quirks is the habit of "merging" different posters into
one poster, and this might be one of those times. That doesn't sound
like the Brian I've known here but I could be wrong.
-DaveK
Robert Epstein
DharmaTroll
> On May 4, 8:25 am, norbu.tra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Mr Freakyman wrote:
> > > > You are banging your head against a brick wall and feeling very bruised,
> > > > frustrated and sorry for yourself when someone comes up to you and
> > > > says:" Shall I show you how those bad feelings can come to an end?"
>
> > > > "Oh, yes please!" You respond.
>
> > > > "Carefully, attentively, bang your head against that brick wall."
>
> > > > _____
> > > > freakyman
>
> > > Mr Freakyman is Brian Mitchell, and
> > > the above was posted on 29 Jun 2003.
>
> > >TangHuyen
>
> > hmmm...i don't know what "Brian Mitchell"'s practice was/is like,
> > but that seems like rather good advice about how to start
> > the path with honesty...
>
> > What else could anyone do other than go off to happy fairy la-la-land?
>
> > - n. :)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> one poster, and this might be one of those times. That doesn't sound
> like the Brian I've known here but I could be wrong.
>
> -DaveK
Yeah, ol' Tang likes to merge posters and project all sorts of
fantasies into them. Why, I'll bet he'll confuse me with the ghost of
Vasubandhu or something.
Btw, "Carefully, attentively, bang your head against that brick wall"
might do the trick in terms of nasty habits such as smoking
cigarettes. Smokers have all sorts of emotional attachments and
conditioned patterns that are connected to the habit (aside from the
physical addiction) and slowing it down. Enormously helpful is simply
watching the patterns when one craves a cigarette and noting the
soothing effect of it and what emotional states triggered the craving
for one and what feelings were present during the smoking process.
Getting to know all that infrastructure mindfully may be a better shot
at ending the nasty habit instead of willfully struggling against it
and then finding that one is overwhelmed by the habit. Indeed, there
is a lot to be said for carefully, attentively continuing a
destructive pattern. And just forgiving the habit, that is, accepting
it as what is and dropping the "I shouldn't be this way" judgments,
might be the best step to ending the habit. Mindfulness often works
that way, I've noticed.
--DharmaTroll (plus whatever other posters Tang merges with me this
time around)
Evelyn Ruut
news:b7ca31c7-400b-4b85...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Almost couldn't believe my eyes. Hi, if that is really you!
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
Tang Huyen
DharmaTroll wrote:
> Yeah, ol' Tang likes to merge posters and project all sorts of
> fantasies into them. Why, I'll bet he'll confuse me with the ghost of
> Vasubandhu or something.
>
> Btw, "Carefully, attentively, bang your head against that brick wall"
> might do the trick in terms of nasty habits such as smoking
> cigarettes. Smokers have all sorts of emotional attachments and
> conditioned patterns that are connected to the habit (aside from the
> physical addiction) and slowing it down. Enormously helpful is simply
> watching the patterns when one craves a cigarette and noting the
> soothing effect of it and what emotional states triggered the craving
> for one and what feelings were present during the smoking process.
> Getting to know all that infrastructure mindfully may be a better shot
> at ending the nasty habit instead of willfully struggling against it
> and then finding that one is overwhelmed by the habit. Indeed, there
> is a lot to be said for carefully, attentively continuing a
> destructive pattern. And just forgiving the habit, that is, accepting
> it as what is and dropping the "I shouldn't be this way" judgments,
> might be the best step to ending the habit. Mindfulness often works
> that way, I've noticed.
>
> --DharmaTroll (plus whatever other posters Tang merges with me this
> time around)
Welcome back, Jigme!
So you let my handling of your alleged identities
disturb you, dear? Wouldn't you want to show the
cyberworld that after half a century's worth of
familiarity with Buddhism in general and Korean
Chan (Son) in particular, you could remain above
it all and not let my fluffing around with various
nyms (which may or may not be yours) move you
around?
You may want to apply some mindfulness to your
reactions to my manipulation of the nyms that I
merge into you, dear. It is metaphorically a brick
wall that you may want to carefully, attentively,
bang your head against.
Jen: be prepared to laugh until you can't physically
any more.
Tang Huyen
norbu....@gmail.com
no...i think the land of fluff is what we have usually -
"I have to meet Joe and get him to sign the contract;
I have to renegotiate the lease; I have to get the tires rotated; I
have to file my taxes..."
That's all sort
of honest fluff in some sense...the dinkster of ego is at the core but
it makes practical sense
in a way - right livelihood..."upaya". A path rather than a truism.
Happy fairy la-la land is like
"I feel I am transcending samsara" when nothing like is really
happening - avoiding real painful feelings
for some wished for "Spiritual Goal". The icky hurt of the real
feelings is where we connect with
real honesty, where the path begins (Carefully, attentively, bang your
head against that brick wall.),
where as the "I am practicing deep samadhi, following the dharma, etc"
can sometimes be a sham
to avoid dealing with hurt and broken parts of our lives. Sometimes.
There's no rule because we each
have to just look at what is going on and be honest with ourselves.
Being fortunate and happy
can also be a problem if we zone out and just go with the reactions
like happy robots until it all
crashes. Been there, done all that, don't want to go back, prolly
will...
Mindfulness looks at the reactions - just looks - just notices
whatever comes up -
how it arises, how it dwell, how it fades...over and over again...The
sense of awareness
shifts from ego's stories and dramas to a sort of simple "just this",
on the spot...
Seems to defuse the reaction stuff a bit...doesn't take the edge off
of the happy or sad...
but cuts through the spiraling into hell or elating to heaven/nirvana
bullshit.
So i thought "Carefully, attentively, bang your head against that
brick wall." was good advice.
Be yourself, look at it, but don't buy into the story, and don't avoid
the energy.
- n.
Tang Huyen
norbu....@gmail.com
wrote:
i think, not sure, that it's DT, not Jigme, trying to prank you,
"yank your chain" so that DT can show you are obsessed
and jump to conclusions. Seriously, i might as well be Jigme,
or maybe *you are Jigme*, it's just "Here Fishy Fishy" -
bite the bait...remember that welcomed folks to try to flip
you... You could ask a few questions about Son....
He didn't claim to be Jigme BTW, just tried to yank you...
>
> You may want to apply some mindfulness to your
> reactions to my manipulation of the nyms that I
> merge into you, dear. It is metaphorically a brick
> wall that you may want to carefully, attentively,
> bang your head against.
>
> Jen: be prepared to laugh until you can't physically
> any more.
the world is dumber than you think
>
> Tang Huyen
Evelyn Ruut
<norbu....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ad6c6aa8-a792-475a...@w34g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
Dear Norbu,
(bowing, hands together and smiling)
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
DharmaTroll
> On May 5, 3:44 am, Tang Huyen <tanghuyen{dele...@gmail.com[remove]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >DharmaTrollwrote:
> > > Yeah, ol' Tang likes to merge posters and project all sorts of
> > > fantasies into them. Why, I'll bet he'll confuse me with the ghost of
> > > Vasubandhu or something.
>
> > > Btw, "Carefully, attentively, bang your head against that brick wall"
> > > might do the trick in terms of nasty habits such as smoking
> > > cigarettes. Smokers have all sorts of emotional attachments and
> > > conditioned patterns that are connected to the habit (aside from the
> > > physical addiction) and slowing it down. Enormously helpful is simply
> > > watching the patterns when one craves a cigarette and noting the
> > > soothing effect of it and what emotional states triggered the craving
> > > for one and what feelings were present during the smoking process.
> > > Getting to know all that infrastructure mindfully may be a better shot
> > > at ending the nasty habit instead of willfully struggling against it
> > > and then finding that one is overwhelmed by the habit. Indeed, there
> > > is a lot to be said for carefully, attentively continuing a
> > > destructive pattern. And just forgiving the habit, that is, accepting
> > > it as what is and dropping the "I shouldn't be this way" judgments,
> > > might be the best step to ending the habit. Mindfulness often works
> > > that way, I've noticed.
>
> > > time around)
>
> > Welcome back, Jigme!
>
> > So you let my handling of your alleged identities
> > disturb you, dear?
Jigme again? Can't I be Theravad, or Hayes, or how about the ghost of
Nagarjuna this time around?
It's not that it disturbs me at all -- I had quite a laugh last time,
but it would be more fun if you insisted I was yet another poster this
time around. Is admitting that the same old schtick on your very post
is boring and I expect something more fun a sign of my mental demise,
Doctor Tang? Heh.
> > Wouldn't you want to show the
> > cyberworld that after half a century's worth of
> > familiarity with Buddhism in general and Korean
> > Chan (Son) in particular, you could remain above
> > it all and not let my fluffing around with various
> > nyms (which may or may not be yours) move you
> > around?
I don't know a damned thing about Korean Chan or Son or Daughter, for
that matter. I was a big fan of the Vietnamese teacher Thich Nhat
Hahn, and find him impressive in many ways, though I eventually found
that Theravadin Vipassana teachers suited me the best, and that
American Vipassana teachers like Jack Kornfield, Joseph Goldstein,
Sharon Salzburg, Tara Brach resonate with me. And of course my
favorite, the Brit, Stephen Batchelor, who equates the Buddha's
original teachings with a superstition-free "deep agnosticism" -- that
resonates the best with me.
> i think, not sure, that it's DT, not Jigme, trying to prank you,
> "yank your chain" so that DT can show you are obsessed
> and jump to conclusions.
No, I already demonstrated that Tang was obsessed last year with his
hilarious confusion of me with Jigme -- I was just poking fun at him.
Actually, I miss Tang -- as nutz and emotionally challenged as Tang
can be sometimes, I remember lots of things Tang posted as so right on
the money and applicable in daily situations, and I miss his good
shit, and want to discuss Buddhism for the most part. If Tang insists
on pretending I'm Jigme or the ghost of his mamma, for that matter,
I'm going to laugh at him. But no, I'm not trying to yank Tang's
chain; just saying hi.
If I'm going to post some, I want at least half the discussions to be
about Buddhism or applied dharma practice in daily life or whatever,
and not to be entirely about Tang's ego and projective fantasies.
> Seriously, i might as well be Jigme,
> or maybe *you are Jigme*, it's just "Here Fishy Fishy" -
> bite the bait...remember that welcomed folks to try to flip
> you... You could ask a few questions about Son....
> He didn't claim to be Jigme BTW, just tried to yank you...
Ultimately, we are all Jigme....
Bwahahahahahah
But I just play DharmaTroll on the net; in real life my name is
'Tom'. Seriously.
> > You may want to apply some mindfulness to your
> > reactions to my manipulation of the nyms that I
> > merge into you, dear. It is metaphorically a brick
> > wall that you may want to carefully, attentively,
> > bang your head against.
They are only walls that you create between yourself and others, Tang,
which you don't need. With all your talk of being serene, you can be
serene and show some basic sanity and not throw up this secret
identity smokescreen dance. Zheesh.
--My Divine Grace Yabba Dabba Dukkha Dharmakaya Trollpa
DharmaTroll
> "DharmaTroll" <dharmatr...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > fantasies into them. Why, I'll bet he'll confuse me with the ghost of
> > Vasubandhu or something.
>
> > Btw, "Carefully, attentively, bang your head against that brick wall"
> > might do the trick in terms of nasty habits such as smoking
> > cigarettes. Smokers have all sorts of emotional attachments and
> > conditioned patterns that are connected to the habit (aside from the
> > physical addiction) and slowing it down. Enormously helpful is simply
> > watching the patterns when one craves a cigarette and noting the
> > soothing effect of it and what emotional states triggered the craving
> > for one and what feelings were present during the smoking process.
> > Getting to know all that infrastructure mindfully may be a better shot
> > at ending the nasty habit instead of willfully struggling against it
> > and then finding that one is overwhelmed by the habit. Indeed, there
> > is a lot to be said for carefully, attentively continuing a
> > destructive pattern. And just forgiving the habit, that is, accepting
> > it as what is and dropping the "I shouldn't be this way" judgments,
> > might be the best step to ending the habit. Mindfulness often works
> > that way, I've noticed.
>
> > time around)
>
> Almost couldn't believe my eyes. Hi, if that is really you!
>
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Evelyn
Yeah, it's really I. Hi, Evelyn.
-DT
pseudomodo
> Enormously helpful is simply
> watching the patterns when one craves a cigarette and noting the
> soothing effect of it and what emotional states triggered the craving
> for one and what feelings were present during the smoking process.
> Getting to know all that infrastructure mindfully may be a better shot
> at ending the nasty habit instead of willfully struggling against it
> and then finding that one is overwhelmed by the habit. Indeed, there
> is a lot to be said for carefully, attentively continuing a
> destructive pattern.
Willy Nelson explains his pot-smoking as a way to ensure he doesn't
axe-murder his family. Lots of smokers would concur WRT tobacco.
High-stress people tend to smoke & drink more, and they work actively to
compensate against it in a myriad of ways. A bit more fatalist humor, a
bit more self-allowance for bad habits and personal weaknesses, and less
judgment against anybody else's foibles.
For many smoking is a stand-in for more mindfulness. Either that or
xanax, and MDs won't let you have too much xanax.
Pipe smokers don't suffer the disease rate of cigarette smokers. I think
they tend to be mellower personalities overall.
IMO.
/leebert
Keynes
I roll my own out of pipe tobacco,
and I'm as nutty as they come.
pseudomodo
Just imagine what you'd be like w/out it.
/leebert
Keynes
There are limits to my imagination.
pseudomodo
That's probably best. The prospects would be too horrifying otherwise.
/leebert
Evelyn Ruut
-DT
Hope so! I will be reading here more diligently.
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
Robert Epstein
> Pipe smokers don't suffer the disease rate of cigarette smokers.
Check on the lip mouth and throat cancer stats for them. Not good.
Also, a large percentage inhale and get lung cancer as well.
Evelyn Ruut
"tara" <jackpine@xplornet{removethis}.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C44516CB...@news.usenetmonster.com...
> On Mon, 5 May 2008 16:51:41 -0400, Robert Epstein wrote
> (in article <xrKTj.3015$0L.832@trnddc07>):
> got cancer of the throat. He also smoked cigars, but only on occasion.
> His
> pipe was always in his mouth from his late teens till then. He had lots
> of
> pipe paraphernalia. I remember when he learned that he had throat cancer,
> he
> ritually threw every bit of it out.
>
> He did survive by the way, but the 'cure' did affect his quality of life.
> At
> the end of his life at 86 he couldn't speak because of the nerve damage
> from
> the radiation.
>
> tara
It's so sad.
I know several individuals who died of COPD or other things related to
smoking. Only two weeks ago a dear friend just died of cancer. She was a
smoker as long as I knew her. It is such a powerful addiction and so hard
to quit. My son struggled for years to give it up and finally he did it.
A dear cousin who is a RN would suction out a lung cancer patient, then go
on break and light up. She can't seem to give it up either.
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
RaaN
> On Mon, 5 May 2008 20:52:34 -0400, Evelyn Ruut wrote
> (in article <481fabdd$0$3365$4c368...@roadrunner.com>):
> Most of the pop. of china smoke. And that's a lot of people, eh. I've seen
> pictures of really old people in countries like China still puffing away and
> they, obviously haven't succumbed.
>
> Not defending the habit. And I really want to stop. I have mild COPD. So
> what's the matter with me anyway? Why don't I do what I know I should?
>
> tara
>
>
Don't worry about quitting smoking, you definitely will eventually,
one way or another. ;)
--
RaaN
Ali
He's got that original dharm...@my-deja.com addy thingy, which is a
nice touch if not genuine.
Now if he just fires a blast across the bow at the Tangster aka Dr.
Ming the Merciless, or some Dramatrollery or other... we'd have a true
deja-moment....
Of course, the old D'enfant Terrible should be allowed to age
gracefully too.
Robert Epstein
I second the motion.
possum
"DharmaTroll" <dharm...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:b7ca31c7-400b-4b85...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
i still have this filthy habit...when i think i i should
give it up, i feel so stressed i have to light up... : )
how are ya doing, DT? nice to see you posting here...
possum
gbb
> I still smoke. And I hate that I am addicted to it.
There's a book my Allen Carr called "The Easy Way to Stop Smoking"
that you might want to read. He insists that you not stop smoking until
you've finished reading the book. So, while you're smoking, you read a
level-headed discussion (no lung cancer scare stories) about the
addiction itself. It's a very effective method.
In a similar vein, I read many years ago about Osho's advice to
someone who wanted to stop smoking: he told them to do "smoking
meditation", or in other words, be mindful about the whole process.
Instead of automatically taking out a cigarrette and lighting up and
inhaling, he was instructed to pull the packet out of his pocket
noticing it's texture and weight and carefully pull out a cigarrette
and smell and examine it before carefully lighting it and then very
consciously inhale and feel the smoke entering his lungs and then
circulating in the bloodstream throughout the body, etc. Osho said he
came back a few weeks later and reported that after years of struggle
he had finally given up his addiction.
--
gbb
Shirley Knott
> On Mon, 5 May 2008 20:52:34 -0400, Evelyn Ruut wrote
> pictures of really old people in countries like China still puffing away and
> they, obviously haven't succumbed.
>
> Not defending the habit. And I really want to stop. I have mild COPD. So
> what's the matter with me anyway? Why don't I do what I know I should?
>
>
> tara
>>
>
>
coffin nails a year ago because quitting had exacerbated my medical
symptoms to such a point that a prognosis of future cancer was better to
my quality of life than the hideous symptoms I was experiencing.
My doctor is wryly amused but agrees, smoking is good for me! :-)
Tang Huyen
Ali wrote:
> He's got that original dharm...@my-deja.com addy
> thingy, which is a nice touch if not genuine.
>
> Now if he just fires a blast across the bow at the Tangster
> aka Dr. Ming the Merciless, or some Dramatrollery or
> other... we'd have a true deja-moment....
>
> Of course, the old D'enfant Terrible should be allowed
> to age gracefully too.
He names names, like Thich Nhat Hahn (mispelled, it
should be Hanh), Theravadin Vipassana teachers like
Jack Kornfield, Joseph Goldstein, Sharon Salzburg,
Tara Brach, and the sceptic and antiseptic Brit,
Stephen Batchelor, which is all nice, and as you say,
the old D'enfant Terrible should be allowed to age
gracefully too.
All of which leads up to the question, can he finally
take mere words on the screen?
That would be some Dramatrollery of note.
Tang Huyen
Robert Epstein
> On Mon, 5 May 2008 16:51:41 -0400, Robert Epstein wrote
> (in article <xrKTj.3015$0L.832@trnddc07>):
>
>
> My dad was a pipe smoker all his life, and then in his early seventies, he
> got cancer of the throat. He also smoked cigars, but only on occasion. His
> pipe was always in his mouth from his late teens till then. He had lots of
> pipe paraphernalia. I remember when he learned that he had throat cancer, he
> ritually threw every bit of it out.
>
> He did survive by the way, but the 'cure' did affect his quality of life. At
> the end of his life at 86 he couldn't speak because of the nerve damage from
> the radiation.
>
> tara
That is very tough. Luckily, my Dad stopped smoking his pipe some years
ago, after about 30 years, first 15 of non-stop cigs, then the constant
pipe for another 15. One day his throat started hurting and he got
furious at himself, and stopped right then and there, never smoked
again. I doubt he'd still be around at 88 if he hadn't quit. For a
little while there, he loved his pipe more than any one of us. We just
accepted that the pipe came first. :)
I smoked cigarettes myself for over ten years. Started young to "be
cool" and quit in my mid-20s, just to give you an idea of how young I
started. We used to forge notes from our parents to buy cigarettes at
the local store.
Evelyn Ruut
news:kL_Tj.7065$zw.3867@trnddc04...
Hi Robert and Tara and all.....
I started as a rather youngish teenager (maybe I was just barely 14?) to
look and act cool, then after a couple of years, one day I realized that
*it* had *me* rather than just casually choosing to do something I genuinely
enjoyed doing. I really didn't like the feeling of craving/needing a
cigarette. The craving feeling, that awful NEED just felt so weird to me.
I forced myself to quit at 17 1/2 years old. Now I am 66 and have been a
non smoker for all my life since.
I am so grateful that I was able to give it up back then, because I know
SOOOO many people, including my sister who can't, and have tried again and
again. And she really should stop as her health is beginning to suffer
from it.
I do have a lady friend who still sneaks smokes now and again, after she
promised her husband she would give it up, but secretly couldn't. When I
would see her, maybe once or twice a year, she would ask me to share a smoke
with her, and she'd give me one of her cigs. I'd enjoy the first two
puffs, but after the third I start to hate it again and let it go out. But
it was kind of fun to enjoy a recreational puff or two maybe once a year.
She moved away about 3 years ago, and I haven't had any desire to even have
a single puff.
I just don't even think about it...... but I do understand and remember very
well how it felt to need and to crave the cigs. Besides, I have seen so
many people struggle with it. It is a pretty horrible addiction and the
health consequences have been told and retold. It wasn't easy for me to
quit at 17 after having smoked for only a couple of years. I can't imagine
how tough it might be after many years.
Hubby used to smoke little cigars way back when. He was such a hottie with
his gorgeous dark curls, his devilish eyes, his Tom Selleck mustache and his
little cigar back when I met him :-) But he too, just one day.... looked
at the small cigar he was smoking, thought it tasted like crap, tossed it
out the window of his car, and never smoked again. That was over 28 yrs
ago. He's still a hottie by the way... :-)
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
Ali
No, it leads up to the question of can he breathe some life back into
"these boards"? No one besides you gives a day-old shit whether he can
finally take mere words on the screen.
And no one gives a shit for fluff posted ad nauseum by you, or anyone
else.
Yes, I speak for all, directly channelling the enlightened mouse in
my pocket, so don't ask.
D.T. used to get wrapped way deep in his concepts, trying out
different versions of critical thinking, trying to find common ground
between buddhism, his own materialistic limitations, and modern
physics, which was absolutely great. He was agonizing sometimes, but
he was doing his own thinking, unlike "their name is legion".
Finally, perhaps most importantly, and not to craft a requiem, since
it may or may not be D.T. redux anyhow, but I oftentime considered him
a good read, the sign of a great usenet & forum artist, and if also
getting wrapped up in ad hominems and pissing matches was part of
that, it's the price one pays for art and original thinking.
Original thinking is far more important than maintaining some
superficial illusion of equanamity. imo.
Evelyn Ruut
news:g8i124h8aoq4lcnrf...@4ax.com...
Exactly and well said :-)
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
Awaken21
> On Mon, 5 May 2008 20:52:34 -0400, Evelyn Ruut wrote
I'm on my 5th time quitting. It's been 4 years this time.
Tang Huyen
Ali wrote:
> No, it leads up to the question of can he breathe some life back into
> "these boards"? No one besides you gives a day-old shit whether he can
> finally take mere words on the screen.
> And no one gives a shit for fluff posted ad nauseum by you, or anyone
> else.
> Yes, I speak for all, directly channelling the enlightened mouse in
> my pocket, so don't ask.
>
> D.T. used to get wrapped way deep in his concepts, trying out
> different versions of critical thinking, trying to find common ground
> between buddhism, his own materialistic limitations, and modern
> physics, which was absolutely great. He was agonizing sometimes, but
> he was doing his own thinking, unlike "their name is legion".
>
> Finally, perhaps most importantly, and not to craft a requiem, since
> it may or may not be D.T. redux anyhow, but I oftentime considered him
> a good read, the sign of a great usenet & forum artist, and if also
> getting wrapped up in ad hominems and pissing matches was part of
> that, it's the price one pays for art and original thinking.
> Original thinking is far more important than maintaining some
> superficial illusion of equanamity. imo.
Right. He does good talk and bad practice.
Rigmarole, for short.
Tang Huyen
Ned
"Tang Huyen" <tanghuyen{delete}@gmail.com[remove]> wrote in message
news:OKadnUJt0bihdr3V...@supernews.com...
>
>> Original thinking is far more important than maintaining some
>> superficial illusion of equanamity. imo.
>
> Right. He does good talk and bad practice.
> Rigmarole, for short.
> Tang Huyen
>
Which is why people come here to Usenet. Never to talk, just
to practice?
Ned
jfe...@googlemail.com
> On Tue, 06 May 2008 07:22:08 -0400, Tang Huyen
>
>
>
> <tanghuyen{dele...@gmail.com[remove]> wrote:
>
> >Ali wrote:
>
Things change get over it.
Robert Epstein
> On Mon, 5 May 2008 20:52:34 -0400, Evelyn Ruut wrote
> (in article <481fabdd$0$3365$4c36...@roadrunner.com>):
> I still smoke. And I hate that I am addicted to it.
> Most of the pop. of china smoke. And that's a lot of people, eh. I've seen
> pictures of really old people in countries like China still puffing away and
> they, obviously haven't succumbed.
>
> Not defending the habit. And I really want to stop. I have mild COPD. So
> what's the matter with me anyway? Why don't I do what I know I should?
>
>
> tara
Addiction is tough, and nicotine is more physically addictive than
heroin. If you accept the difficulty you will not beat yourself up over
it, but will study what strategies work. Some do well with The Patch.
For me, it was cold turkey after three unsuccessful tries. Every time I
tried to go half way, or say "well I can smoke one cigarette a day" I
would wind up smoking 20 out of anxiety. I drove myself nuts; drove up
the road in college and threw my Winstons out the window, then did a U
Turn and drove back, picked them up off the road and anxiously smoked
all the broken butts.
Finally in my mid-twenties when I was singing I started getting a
permanent rough edge to my voice and couldn't make it up the stairs
without panting, and I thought "This is it; either I stop or die" and it
was thinking that which allowed me to really consider it. Then I
stopped and it was so hard it was unbelieveable. I literally didn't
feel like going anywhere, doing anything, for a year. People would drag
me around like a "thing" and take me to parties and stuff. I would go
along to try to help myself and just stand around helplessly. I must
have been addicted on a lot of levels, because my emotional life just
collapsed. Then I resurfaced and felt like someone else. It took five
years to stop wanting to inhale other people's smoke and then I went the
other way, got allergic and can't stand to be near a cigarette. It's
weird, but it is a totally subconscious/metabolic phenomenon and takes
place on deep levels. Basically you just have to endure all the
discomfort or you can't do it. I think the patch probably helps a lot
because the shock to the body is intense. You have genuine withdrawal
symptoms, including runny nose, fatigue, etc.
My yoga teacher at the time gave me one little helpful aid, really just
a little help, but it actually worked for me. You gently put a finger
or two in the notch of your throat right under the Adam's Apple area,
and put a little pressure on, then take a deep breath in the upper
lungs. It sort of emulates the "heavy" feeling of taking the smoke in,
and may get you through a few minutes when you feel like you HAVE to smoke.
Anyway, it's rough, but worth it. I now am happy with green tea and the
AIR. But it took a long time.
Robert
= = = = = = = = = = = =
Robert Epstein
He's been practicing that mindfulness stuff. Ruins the personality.
Robert
- - - - - - - - - - -
Robert Epstein
very good.
robert
= = = = = = = =
Robert Epstein
> On Tue, 6 May 2008 11:25:04 -0400, Robert Epstein wrote
> (in article <kL_Tj.7065$zw.3867@trnddc04>):
> smart man, and lucky.
>
> I doubt he'd still be around at 88 if he hadn't quit. For a
>
>>little while there, he loved his pipe more than any one of us. We just
>>accepted that the pipe came first. :)
>
>
> same in our house :). I loved the smell of his pipe tobacco.
me too.
guess the name of his tobacco?
revelation. ha ha,
guess it presaged my interest in mysticism.
:)
I can still sort of smell it in my mind;
smelled especially good when it *wasn't* burning.
>>I smoked cigarettes myself for over ten years. Started young to "be
>>cool" and quit in my mid-20s, just to give you an idea of how young I
>>started. We used to forge notes from our parents to buy cigarettes at
>>the local store.
>
>
> sounds like you and I started out the same. I started at 15.
13. Hate to admit it. Yeesh!
how "cool" was I. [read: stupid.]
At least I resisted the half a tab of acid that some 20 year old on the
street wanted to split with me. I think at 13 that would have had a
pretty severe permanent effect.
But grass and cigarettes were fun for a while. <cough>
Robert
= = = = = = = = = = = = =
Robert Epstein
Yeah it's crazy; takes over your personality pretty thoroughly. And the
worst thing when I quit; I couldn't enjoy drinking anymore! ;)
> Hubby used to smoke little cigars way back when. He was such a hottie
> with his gorgeous dark curls, his devilish eyes, his Tom Selleck
> mustache and his little cigar back when I met him :-) But he too, just
> one day.... looked at the small cigar he was smoking, thought it tasted
> like crap, tossed it out the window of his car, and never smoked again.
> That was over 28 yrs ago. He's still a hottie by the way... :-)
:)
robert
DharmaTroll
> On Tue, 06 May 2008 07:22:08 -0400, Tang Huyen
>
>
>
> <tanghuyen{dele...@gmail.com[remove]> wrote:
>
> >Ali wrote:
>
> >> thingy, which is a nice touch if not genuine.
>
> >> Now if he just fires a blast across the bow at the Tangster
> >> aka Dr. Ming the Merciless, or some Dramatrollery or
> >> other... we'd have a true deja-moment....
>
> >> Of course, the old D'enfant Terrible should be allowed
> >> to age gracefully too.
>
> >He names names, like Thich Nhat Hahn (mispelled, it
> >should be Hanh), Theravadin Vipassana teachers like
> >Jack Kornfield, Joseph Goldstein, Sharon Salzburg,
> >Tara Brach, and the sceptic and antiseptic Brit,
> >Stephen Batchelor, which is all nice, and as you say,
> >the old D'enfant Terrible should be allowed to age
> >gracefully too.
>
> >All of which leads up to the question, can he finally
> >take mere words on the screen?
>
> >That would be some Dramatrollery of note.
>
> >Tang Huyen
>
> No, it leads up to the question of can he breathe some life back into
> "these boards"? No one besides you gives a day-old shit whether he can
> finally take mere words on the screen.
> And no one gives a shit for fluff posted ad nauseum by you, or anyone
> else.
Hah! Actually, Cardinal Tang has the right idea, but the wrong medium.
These days, it seems just about any skilled 15-year-old can take words
on a screen and completely depersonalize them (which Tang perhaps
wrongly equates with serenity) and then dispassionately blasts them in
whatever online virtual reality game they are playing. It's usually
the new folks to the internet, who aren't used to having judgments
hurled at them while they are wearing their robe and slippers and
reading on their laptop in the apparently safe intimacy of their own
bedroom -- that contradiction freaks them out, and Cardinal Tang is
quick to label them as psychotic blow-up burnout losers who lack his
thick-skinned serenity.
No, for me the medium is the road. Years ago, I used to drive fast
and get pissed off at other drivers, which is very easy on the
overcrowded beltway that circumnavigates the nation's capital. I
haven't honked my horn in frustration at another driver in years.
Today an impatient 17-year-old bumped his car into mine. I got out
looked and saw there was no damage and smiled and said, "cool -- the
bumpers did their job the way they're supposed to, but you'd better be
careful about following so close, as a little faster and you can do a
lot of damage and then your insurance will go up and your parents
might freak out." I had none of that indignation of "how dare 'you'
hit 'me' (and it's cool how we identify and say 'me' when our car is
touched, as we extend our egos around everything moving in the same
reference plane). None of it. So that's actually my test.
And if I'm in a bad mood, maybe I will react with the old patterns if
someone bumps my car. And then I'll wake up in the moment to the
awareness that the old pattern is triggered and then I'll pay
attention to it and forgive it (no need to judge myself for not being
serene -- that's the trap in the Tang school, or else you have to be
in denial, and the choice between denial and self-loathing is an awful
one), and then it will pass and I'll watch those thoughts fade away
and that's ok too.
I will say that Tang makes a good point that someone who continually
blows up simply has a practice that is worthless (for them at that
time, at least) and that if they had a practice that worked, they
wouldn't get all flustered and have tantrums, whether on line or when
driving cars, or waiting in line at the grocery store. It's like
Prozac or one of those drugs -- if you take them for months and there
aren't any profound changes in your experience, then you're wasting
your money and taking the wrong drug, and your doc should switch you
to another one, or tell you to get more exercise or divorce your
nagging wife and boink somebody else or whatever. I see people who
claim to 'meditate' and yet go stomping around whining and accusing
and judging and having hissy fits -- and I think, their practice is a
joke; it's superficial; were they doing some really profound practice
that is transformational, it would change every aspect of their
experience. So in that kind of case, I think Tang is right about the
serenity stuff.
> Yes, I speak for all, directly channelling the enlightened mouse in
> my pocket, so don't ask.
>
> D.T. used to get wrapped way deep in his concepts, trying out
> different versions of critical thinking, trying to find common ground
> between buddhism, his own materialistic limitations, and modern
> physics, which was absolutely great.
I like to think of them as 'constraints' rather than limitations. For
example, in a lively discussion with a rather literalistic Catholic
member of my extended family, who believes in angels and devils and
demon possession and that exorcisms truly expel beasties possessing
people, I reiterated my materialistic maxim: "if it doesn't poop, and
we don't have fossils of it, it doesn't exist, and is a metaphor or
legend". It's a simply rule, and a believer in angels and energies,
ghosts and ghandhabbas, might accuse me of having materialist
'limitations', but I consider them useful constraints that keep us
grounded in reality, as well as basic sanity.
> He was agonizing sometimes, but
> he was doing his own thinking, unlike "their name is legion".
Right. My partner in the angels and demons discussion simply believed
in such beasties because they're mentioned in the bible and the pope
says so -- not because of any experience or evidence of their
existence. Hence, my focusing on whether they poop or not, something
tangible that we can hurl at the believers...
> Finally, perhaps most importantly, and not to craft a requiem, since
> it may or may not be D.T. redux anyhow, but I oftentime considered him
> a good read, the sign of a great usenet & forum artist, and if also
> getting wrapped up in ad hominems and pissing matches was part of
> that, it's the price one pays for art and original thinking.
While I have insulted folks and made fun of them, that's not the same
as argumentum ad hominem, which is to use an insult as an argument.
If I say, "because you are a silly fool, Tang, who keeps mixing me up
with other posters and is too pigheaded to admit you're wrong and I
really am DT, therefore what you say about Buddhism is bullshit", THAT
would be ad hominem. Because Tang could be (and most likely is)
pigheaded and confused about me, but that's no argument against his
points he's making. He could be deluded in many ways and still get it
right about the dharma. (Indeed, I think that often is the case.) So
don't confuse my insulting an poking fun at others with using that as
an argument to claim that what they say about Buddhism or whatever is
the topic of discussion isn't valid.
> Original thinking is far more important than maintaining some
> superficial illusion of equanimity. imo.
Exactly!
--DharmaTroll
DharmaTroll
> "tara" <jackpine@xplornet{removethis}.com> wrote in message
>
> news:0001HW.C44516CB...@news.usenetmonster.com...
>
>
>
> > (in article <xrKTj.3015$0L.832@trnddc07>):
>
> >> pseudomodo wrote:
>
> >>> Pipe smokers don't suffer the disease rate of cigarette smokers.
>
> >> Check on the lip mouth and throat cancer stats for them. Not good.
> >> Also, a large percentage inhale and get lung cancer as well.
>
> > My dad was a pipe smoker all his life, and then in his early seventies, he
> > got cancer of the throat. He also smoked cigars, but only on occasion.
> > His
> > pipe was always in his mouth from his late teens till then. He had lots
> > of
> > pipe paraphernalia. I remember when he learned that he had throat cancer,
> > he
> > ritually threw every bit of it out.
>
> > He did survive by the way, but the 'cure' did affect his quality of life.
> > At
> > the end of his life at 86 he couldn't speak because of the nerve damage
> > from
> > the radiation.
>
> > tara
>
>
> I know several individuals who died of COPD or other things related to
> smoking. Only two weeks ago a dear friend just died of cancer. She was a
> smoker as long as I knew her. It is such a powerful addiction and so hard
> to quit. My son struggled for years to give it up and finally he did it.
>
> A dear cousin who is a RN would suction out a lung cancer patient, then go
> on break and light up. She can't seem to give it up either.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Evelyn
Nicotine is a pretty disgusting drug, and it's really a poison.
Cigarettes, pipes, whatever -- they are ingesting a small dose of a
deadly poison, and one that is more physically addictive than heroin.
It kills more than a half million Americans a year, and one if every 6
U.S. deaths is tobacco related. Not to mention that for a non-smoker,
the smell of it on others' clothes and furniture and cars is horribly
unpleasant. Yeah, people rationalize how smoking helps them deal with
stress -- um, how about swimming or running or bicycling or rock-
climbing. Duh. Or even watch TV. As bad a rep as television gets,
with all the competition from cable channels, there is all sorts of
amazing entertaining TV these days. Much more of a high than the
simple short-term increase in blood pressure, heart rate and the flow
of blood from the heart you get from cigarettes. In any case, these
cancer sticks are poison. Period.
--DT
Awaken21
>
> I will say that Tang makes a good point that someone who continually
> blows up simply has a practice that is worthless (for them at that
> time, at least) and that if they had a practice that worked, they
> wouldn't get all flustered and have tantrums, whether on line or when
> driving cars, or waiting in line at the grocery store. It's like
> Prozac or one of those drugs -- if you take them for months and there
> aren't any profound changes in your experience, then you're wasting
> your money and taking the wrong drug, and your doc should switch you
> to another one, or tell you to get more exercise or divorce your
> nagging wife and boink somebody else or whatever. I see people who
> claim to 'meditate' and yet go stomping around whining and accusing
> and judging and having hissy fits -- and I think, their practice is a
> joke; it's superficial; were they doing some really profound practice
> that is transformational, it would change every aspect of their
> experience.
How can you tell if you don't know where and what they were like when
they began and don't know how it's affecting their daily life? Just
because they get huffy here regularly in this rather harmles medium,
doesn't mean that's not much better than what they were like when they
started.
Months is probably too short a time to judge the effect of practice.
It takes years to build up the ignorance to a frenzy, no reason to
believe it might not take years to unravel it.
DharmaTroll
> "DharmaTroll" <dharmatr...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
I'm doing great. Just on a whim decided to post something. Nice to
see familiar posters still here.
-DharmaTroll
DharmaTroll
> Ali wrote:
> > On Mon, 5 May 2008 06:31:12 -0400, "Evelyn Ruut"
>
> >>"DharmaTroll" <dharmatr...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> >>news:b7ca31c7-400b-4b85...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>>On May 4, 1:50 pm, Dave K <dkotsch...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>>Btw, "Carefully, attentively, bang your head against that brick wall"
> >>>might do the trick in terms of nasty habits such as smoking
> >>>cigarettes. Smokers have all sorts of emotional attachments and
> >>>conditioned patterns that are connected to the habit (aside from the
> >>>physical addiction) and slowing it down. Enormously helpful is simply
> >>>watching the patterns when one craves a cigarette and noting the
> >>>soothing effect of it and what emotional states triggered the craving
> >>>for one and what feelings were present during the smoking process.
> >>>Getting to know all that infrastructure mindfully may be a better shot
> >>>at ending the nasty habit instead of willfully struggling against it
> >>>and then finding that one is overwhelmed by the habit. Indeed, there
> >>>is a lot to be said for carefully, attentively continuing a
> >>>destructive pattern. And just forgiving the habit, that is, accepting
> >>>it as what is and dropping the "I shouldn't be this way" judgments,
> >>>might be the best step to ending the habit. Mindfulness often works
> >>>that way, I've noticed.
>
> >>>--DharmaTroll (plus whatever other posters Tang merges with me this
> >>>time around)
>
> >>Almost couldn't believe my eyes. Hi, if that is really you!
>
> > nice touch if not genuine.
>
> > Now if he just fires a blast across the bow at the Tangster aka Dr.
> > Ming the Merciless, or some Dramatrollery or other... we'd have a true
> > deja-moment....
>
> > Of course, the old D'enfant Terrible should be allowed to age
> > gracefully too.
>
> He's been practicing that mindfulness stuff. Ruins the personality.
>
> Robert
>
> - - - - - - - - - - -
Hah! Hi Robert!
-DharmaTroll
DharmaTroll
> On Mon, 05 May 2008 11:20:38 -0500, pseudomodo <sinohege...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >DharmaTroll wrote:
>
> >> Enormously helpful is simply
> >> watching the patterns when one craves a cigarette and noting the
> >> soothing effect of it and what emotional states triggered the craving
> >> for one and what feelings were present during the smoking process.
> >> Getting to know all that infrastructure mindfully may be a better shot
> >> at ending the nasty habit instead of willfully struggling against it
> >> and then finding that one is overwhelmed by the habit. Indeed, there
> >> is a lot to be said for carefully, attentively continuing a
> >> destructive pattern.
>
> >axe-murder his family. Lots of smokers would concur WRT tobacco.
>
> >High-stress people tend to smoke & drink more, and they work actively to
> >compensate against it in a myriad of ways. A bit more fatalist humor, a
> >bit more self-allowance for bad habits and personal weaknesses, and less
> >judgment against anybody else's foibles.
>
> >For many smoking is a stand-in for more mindfulness. Either that or
> >xanax, and MDs won't let you have too much xanax.
>
> >Pipe smokers don't suffer the disease rate of cigarette smokers. I think
> >they tend to be mellower personalities overall.
>
> >IMO.
>
> >/leebert
>
> I roll my own out of pipe tobacco,
> and I'm as nutty as they come.
I can vouch for that! I always wondered what you'd been schmokin',
the way you kept getting so muddled about the speed of light being a
constant. Heh.
-DT
^@%>---*=#
tang is not a cardinal
Keynes
wrote:
It's only a mathematical constant in any particular
frame of reference. Between frames it must be
different and therefore variable. That's what the
curved space-time of relativity has to mean.
Hell, even time dilation proves as much. If c
were a true absolute constant there couldn't be
any curvature or time dilation. (or gravity.)
I blame it all on dark matter, dark energy,
and the music of the branes. ;-P
^@%>---*=#
"Keynes" <Key...@earthlinkspam.net> wrote in message
news:o8e224di1fu5ui5bd...@4ax.com...
so i'll need to departicularize my
frame of reference ?
> Between frames it must be
> different and therefore variable.
between the frames.
story of my life.
That's what the
> curved space-time of relativity has to mean.
has to ?
> Hell, even time dilation proves as much.
is that where you look at your
watch in a dark room and then
in a bright one ?
> If c
> were a true absolute constant there couldn't be
> any curvature or time dilation. (or gravity.)
i think the curvature of dilated
gravity is rainbowing out of
control
> I blame it all on dark matter, dark energy,
afraid of the dark ?
> and the music of the branes. ;-P
werewolves of london again
Evelyn Ruut
Glad you made it Robert.
My son was quitting for years. He tried the patch, the gum.....you name it.
But when he was still single the worst was when he would go to a nightclub,
he absolutely could not get past that. He would smoke then no matter how
strong his resolve had been. I don't know exactly what finally gave him
the strength to quit, but partly it had to do with his getting married and
wanting to give it up on an even deeper level.
My sister is another story. She absolutely cannot quit. The first little
bit of stress and she is lighting up again. Heart problems, a couple of
kinds of cancer....loss of an aunt and an uncle to COPD, loss of her friend
to cancer... none of those have scared her into it either. I read
somewhere that it is more addictive than many of the hard drugs. I believe
it. I only smoked for a couple of years as a kid, and it was hard for me
too, but nothing like what it is for an adult long time smoker.
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
Tang Huyen
Awaken21 wrote:
> How can you tell if you don't know where and what they were like when
> they began and don't know how it's affecting their daily life? Just
> because they get huffy here regularly in this rather harmles medium,
> doesn't mean that's not much better than what they were like when they
> started.
>
> Months is probably too short a time to judge the effect of practice.
> It takes years to build up the ignorance to a frenzy, no reason to
> believe it might not take years to unravel it.
<<Just because they get huffy here regularly in this
rather harmles medium, doesn't mean that's not much
better than what they were like when they started.>>
Right. This medium called Usenet is harmless.
It only deals with mere words on the screen.
The people who use it cannot be harmed by
mere words on the screen, unless they want
it. People who want to break cannot be stopped,
and people who don't want to break cannot be
broken by mere words on the screen. People
who want to preserve themselves know how to
and do, and people who want to break know
how to and do. In this rather harmless medium
everything is free and everything is voluntary.
We are all adults and we are all responsible for
ourselves.
These boards are not kindergartens for babies.
People who are fragile or loose upstairs should
not be here, surely not without supervision, if
only because they can break themselves, from
their own side, using these boards as mere
excuse. The people who get hurt hurt
themselves, in closed circle. The people who
burn themselves out burn themselves out with
their own energy, in closed circle. This medium
merely serves as enabler, in that in its
impersonal dynamics it fortifies and exacerbates
their wishes and desires to their logical end. It
merely helps them dispatch themselves.
Tang Huyen
Evelyn Ruut
news:ffb4a776-e0b5-4579...@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
Hi Luke,
You know, I am sure, that all buddhist scriptures are full of stories of
immediate awakening.
Buddhism is realizational, meaning sometimes one gets it right away and
sometimes one doesn't. We all think we understand on a rational level and
that will do the trick. It doesn't always.
It still takes practice and study and some get it right away and some don't.
But what Tang says about hot tempered, short fused individuals who blow up
right away, is absolutely true. It's a good indicator, though I don't
believe in purposeful, deliberate testing, as I think that is contrived.
I think that life itself is stressful enough to show ones mettle. First
noble truth and all that.....
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
Evelyn Ruut
news:eLudnTrGwtOzp7zV...@earthlink.com...
He's the pope of buddhist usenet! :-) :-)
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
norbu....@gmail.com
> On May 5, 7:03 am, norbu.tra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On May 5, 3:44 am, Tang Huyen <tanghuyen{dele...@gmail.com[remove]>
> > wrote:
>
> > >DharmaTrollwrote:
> > > > Yeah, ol' Tang likes to merge posters and project all sorts of
> > > > fantasies into them. Why, I'll bet he'll confuse me with the ghost of
> > > > Vasubandhu or something.
>
> > > > might do the trick in terms of nasty habits such as smoking
> > > > cigarettes. Smokers have all sorts of emotional attachments and
> > > > conditioned patterns that are connected to the habit (aside from the
> > > > watching the patterns when one craves a cigarette and noting the
> > > > soothing effect of it and what emotional states triggered the craving
> > > > for one and what feelings were present during the smoking process.
> > > > Getting to know all that infrastructure mindfully may be a better shot
> > > > at ending the nasty habit instead of willfully struggling against it
> > > > and then finding that one is overwhelmed by the habit. Indeed, there
> > > > is a lot to be said for carefully, attentively continuing a
> > > > it as what is and dropping the "I shouldn't be this way" judgments,
> > > > might be the best step to ending the habit. Mindfulness often works
> > > > that way, I've noticed.
>
> > > > time around)
>
> > > Welcome back, Jigme!
>
> > > So you let my handling of your alleged identities
> > > disturb you, dear?
>
> Jigme again? Can't I be Theravad, or Hayes, or how about the ghost of
> Nagarjuna this time around?
>
> It's not that it disturbs me at all -- I had quite a laugh last time,
> but it would be more fun if you insisted I was yet another poster this
> time around. Is admitting that the same old schtick on your very post
> is boring and I expect something more fun a sign of my mental demise,
> Doctor Tang? Heh.
>
> > > Wouldn't you want to show the
> > > cyberworld that after half a century's worth of
> > > familiarity with Buddhism in general and Korean
> > > Chan (Son) in particular, you could remain above
> > > it all and not let my fluffing around with various
> > > nyms (which may or may not be yours) move you
> > > around?
>
> I don't know a damned thing about Korean Chan or Son or Daughter, for
> that matter. I was a big fan of the Vietnamese teacher Thich Nhat
> Hahn, and find him impressive in many ways, though I eventually found
> that Theravadin Vipassana teachers suited me the best, and that
> American Vipassana teachers like Jack Kornfield, Joseph Goldstein,
> Sharon Salzburg, Tara Brach resonate with me. And of course my
> favorite, the Brit, Stephen Batchelor, who equates the Buddha's
> original teachings with a superstition-free "deep agnosticism" -- that
> resonates the best with me.
i like Batchelor's later writings, after he got free of the Geluk
thingy -
his earlier translation of the Bodhicharyaavatara was was awful...
Geluk prejudice laid on top of Santideva's Indian prejudices...
>
> > i think, not sure, that it's DT, not Jigme, trying to prank you,
> > "yank your chain" so that DT can show you are obsessed
> > and jump to conclusions.
>
> No, I already demonstrated that Tang was obsessed last year with his
> hilarious confusion of me with Jigme --
i think, pardon me for disagreeing, that Tang is somewhat rightly
cautious of Usenet
identity posing...i, for example, could be 'Foot, or Mizar, or one of
the founders of
TRB...but i'm not, just me...But what proof? People do assume names,
etc on usenet...
i could start posting as Mr. Dharma Troll, Lord Jigme, etc, ape
speech pattens and
vocabularies...i think a little caution on usenet is recommended ...
> I was just poking fun at him.
> Actually, I miss Tang -- as nutz and emotionally challenged as Tang
> can be sometimes, I remember lots of things Tang posted as so right on
> the money and applicable in daily situations, and I miss his good
> shit, and want to discuss Buddhism for the most part.
He's still doing that good shit. If there is a particular topic you
want to start a discussion with
him on just do that. We're all a little nutz, but Tang isn't as nuts
or fragile as you seem to think him.
If he says that your Jigme or whatever, just say "No, I'm not", and
get onto the topic.
All that friend or foe stuff doesn't really go anywhere when what
we're really trying to
do work out the dharma in our lives...about how to get our butts out
of the wringer
of self-imposed freakin miserableness and all the rest...
We are all in same sort of boats, different funny boat shapes, and
sometimes our boats bump,
trying to get out of the floating sink or swim drama...
- n.
If Tang insists
> on pretending I'm Jigme or the ghost of his mamma, for that matter,
> I'm going to laugh at him. But no, I'm not trying to yank Tang's
> chain; just saying hi.
>
> If I'm going to post some, I want at least half the discussions to be
> about Buddhism or applied dharma practice in daily life or whatever,
> and not to be entirely about Tang's ego and projective fantasies.
>
> > Seriously, i might as well be Jigme,
> > or maybe *you are Jigme*, it's just "Here Fishy Fishy" -
> > bite the bait...remember that welcomed folks to try to flip
> > you... You could ask a few questions about Son....
> > He didn't claim to be Jigme BTW, just tried to yank you...
>
> Ultimately, we are all Jigme....
> Bwahahahahahah
>
> But I just play DharmaTroll on the net; in real life my name is
> 'Tom'. Seriously.
>
> > > You may want to apply some mindfulness to your
> > > reactions to my manipulation of the nyms that I
> > > merge into you, dear. It is metaphorically a brick
> > > wall that you may want to carefully, attentively,
> > > bang your head against.
>
> They are only walls that you create between yourself and others, Tang,
> which you don't need. With all your talk of being serene, you can be
> serene and show some basic sanity and not throw up this secret
> identity smokescreen dance. Zheesh.
>
> --My Divine Grace Yabba Dabba Dukkha Dharmakaya Trollpa
Ali
<tanghuyen{delete}@gmail.com[remove]> wrote:
lol. Thank you, Tang. I can't remember if you've ever made me laugh
before. I suppose you're aging gracefully too.
^@%>---*=#
"Evelyn Ruut" <evely...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:48218c47$0$12937$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
is that what that smell is ?
Evelyn Ruut
The voice has changed but the breath is the same. :-)
(apologies to Tang.... couldn't resist the joke)
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
^@%>---*=#
some parents have quite a sense of humour.
those who name their kids after tropical fish
and astronaut drinks are a-ok in my book.
Wilson
>
> Nicotine is a pretty disgusting drug, and it's really a
> poison. Cigarettes, pipes, whatever -- they are ingesting a
> small dose of a deadly poison, and one that is more
> physically addictive than heroin. It kills more than a half
> million Americans a year, and one if every 6 U.S. deaths is
> tobacco related. Not to mention that for a non-smoker, the
> smell of it on others' clothes and furniture and cars is
> horribly unpleasant. Yeah, people rationalize how smoking
> helps them deal with stress -- um, how about swimming or
> running or bicycling or rock- climbing. Duh. Or even watch
> TV. As bad a rep as television gets, with all the
> competition from cable channels, there is all sorts of
> amazing entertaining TV these days. Much more of a high
> than the simple short-term increase in blood pressure, heart
> rate and the flow of blood from the heart you get from
> cigarettes. In any case, these cancer sticks are poison.
> Period.
And knowing that makes absolutely no difference at all when
someone craves a cigarette.
--
Wilson
Benjamin
Same thing goes for bleached white sugar, but do people complain about it?
Ben
Allen L. Barker
http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/einstein-albert_interviewed-by-ashley-montagu.html
[...]
His workroom had a large window looking down on a long, brightly planted
garden. Against the walls there were two cases crowded with books and
periodicals. A plain wooden table held several work papers covered with
neat mathematical computations, some pipes and a pouch of tobacco.
Einstein, I soon discovered, was addicted to his pipe then. And after
doctors ordered him to quit, he would sometimes take an empty one and
gesticulate with it as if it were an extension of his hand or a pointer. He
later told me that he missed his pipe, adding with a laugh that when he
happened to find himself behind a man smoking a pipe on the street, he
would follow his fragrant trail of tobacco.
[...]
Allen L. Barker
is he an ordinal?
^@%>---*=#
"Allen L. Barker" <a...@datafilter.com> wrote in message
news:c4-dnbyzC5TDfLzV...@earthlink.com...
ordered
Keynes
wrote:
Maybe a cub? A giant?
Don Harvey Ignacia del Encanto
BWS causes emphysema? Sheeeee-it! No birthday cake for you, bwana.
Evelyn Ruut
> On Wed, 7 May 2008 15:02:11 -0400, tara wrote
> (in article <0001HW.C44774F3...@news.usenetmonster.com>):
>
>> On Wed, 7 May 2008 12:25:35 -0400, Wilson wrote
>> (in article <3KkUj.18$Hh.10@trndny09>):
>
> it's comparable to saying to someone who is deeply depressed..."Just snap
> out
> of it".
>
>
> tara
Yes, I would say that is an excellent comparison, because addiction and
depression are both all about brain chemistry, as far as I know.
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
>
>
dt
How 'bout a bwanana cream pie?
DT
Thread Terminating Skinhead Demon!
Um, that's bwanana cweem pie.
Don
Tang Huyen
Ali wrote:
> Tang Huyen:
>
> >Right. He does good talk and bad practice.
> >Rigmarole, for short.
>
> lol. Thank you, Tang. I can't remember if you've
> ever made me laugh before. I suppose you're
> aging gracefully too.
I am aging, sure, but whether I am aging
gracefully or not, I still can throw insults just
like in the bad old years. The above came
from Lee Rudolph (2 Mar 2007):
<<"Rigmarole" is a pretty good rhyme for
"Jigme Troll".>>
So what insult can I throw next? Fu Sushido.
Tang Huyen
Evelyn Ruut
"tara" <jackpine@xplornet{removethis}.com> wrote in message
> On Wed, 7 May 2008 16:50:17 -0400, Evelyn Ruut wrote
> (in article <4822161c$0$12979$4c36...@roadrunner.com>):
> depression or an addiction it has become a complex brain/ body connection
> that needs to become unravelled. And there is no quick fix.
>
> tara
The only way past it is through it. You would have to quit long enough for
your brain to stop seeking the same chemical feeling it gets from the
nicotine, I think. I do know there came a day when I just didn't think
about it anymore.
One friend of mine went to a hypnotist. The hypnotist gave her a phrase to
ponder. He asked her what does a non smoker do? She replied "they don't
think about it" so that became her phrase.... "don't think about it" So
every time she craved a cig, she was supposed to say "don't think about it".
I think it worked for a while, but that craving remains in your brain and
body for a long time. Only one slip and you are back on it again. That's
what happened to my friend.
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
Awaken21
> "Awaken21" <lukecar...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ffb4a776-e0b5-4579...@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On May 7, 12:06 am, DharmaTroll <dharmatr...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I will say that Tang makes a good point that someone who continually
> > blows up simply has a practice that is worthless (for them at that
> > time, at least) and that if they had a practice that worked, they
> > wouldn't get all flustered and have tantrums, whether on line or when
> > driving cars, or waiting in line at the grocery store. It's like
> > Prozac or one of those drugs -- if you take them for months and there
> > aren't any profound changes in your experience, then you're wasting
> > your money and taking the wrong drug, and your doc should switch you
> > to another one, or tell you to get more exercise or divorce your
> > nagging wife and boink somebody else or whatever. I see people who
> > claim to 'meditate' and yet go stomping around whining and accusing
> > and judging and having hissy fits -- and I think, their practice is a
> > joke; it's superficial; were they doing some really profound practice
> > that is transformational, it would change every aspect of their
> > experience.
>
> they began and don't know how it's affecting their daily life? Just
> because they get huffy here regularly in this rather harmles medium,
> doesn't mean that's not much better than what they were like when they
> started.
>
> Months is probably too short a time to judge the effect of practice.
> It takes years to build up the ignorance to a frenzy, no reason to
> believe it might not take years to unravel it.
>
> Hi Luke,
>
> You know, I am sure, that all buddhist scriptures are full of stories of
> immediate awakening.
>
> Buddhism is realizational, meaning sometimes one gets it right away and
> sometimes one doesn't. We all think we understand on a rational level and
> that will do the trick. It doesn't always.
>
> It still takes practice and study and some get it right away and some don't.
>
> But what Tang says about hot tempered, short fused individuals who blow up
> right away, is absolutely true. It's a good indicator
Maybe of where they are, but that's a snapshot, who knows where they
started? There's no context, no way to know if their practice is usful
to them unless you knew what they were like when they started.
>, though I don't
> believe in purposeful, deliberate testing, as I think that is contrived.
Without context it's meaningless.
>
> I think that life itself is stressful enough to show ones mettle. First
> noble truth and all that.....
>
I think unless the person asks for your opinion, the wisest course is
to withhold judgement altogether. Offering it without being asked and
without enough information is just ignorant and arrogant.
DharmaTroll
is a test.
DharmaTroll
> On May 5, 7:24 am, DharmaTroll <dharmatr...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > On May 5, 7:03 am, norbu.tra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> i like Batchelor's later writings, after he got free of the Geluk
> thingy -
> his earlier translation of the Bodhicharyaavatara was was awful...
> Geluk prejudice laid on top of Santideva's Indian prejudices...
My first experience of Batchelor was "Alone With Others", a wonderful
little book on Heidegger and Buddhism, which I read on my own while
taking a class called "Heidegger and Zen", back before I was posting
as "DharmaTroll" and went by "Tom Bombadil" on some old email groups
(that's where I first met Evelyn).
I loved the book. A few years later, he came out with A Faith to
Doubt, and as I recall, the first couple of chapters of that were
fantastic and resonated with my experience. Then "Buddhism Without
Beliefs" came out and it's a book I give to friends more than any
other, especially anti-religiosity friends who are suspicious of
Buddhism as just another set of superstitions like the Christianity
they grew up with. Jewish friends tend to love the book, because
Judaism doesn't focus on the afterlife or on believing in absurdities
like Jesus coming back from the dead like a vampire, but instead
focuses on how to live your life ethically and most fully right now in
a practical sense -- and Batchelor's brand of Buddhism is focused on
just that.
Don't know about that early translation he did, but I think
Batchelor's leaving his Tibetan sect and doing Korean Buddhism (hey,
maybe he's Jigme too), and then doing Theravadan Vipassana gave him a
really good eclectic set of experiences of Buddhism, allowing him to
be free of the triumphalism that often comes from just experiencing
one sect and then claiming the one you happened to have joined to be
the most authentic or Buddhistic or whatever. Batchelor seems to me
to get back to the original teachings and spirit of the Buddha which
got mixed with cultural aspect and became ritualized and formalized
into dogmatic religion. I mean, can you imagine a Catholic monk who
dumped the superstition and just focused on the wonderful parables and
teachings of the real, historical Jesus, a flesh and blood rabbi
without the magic powers stuff who taught folks to love their
neighbors and said the kingdom of god is within you and to get there
you have to be a child again? He'd be excommunicated the next day
(and burned at the stake only 4 centuries ago, as were philosophers
such as Bruno). But you can do that in Buddhism, and Batchelor does
it well.
--My Divine Grace Yabba Dabba Dukkha Dharmakaya Trollpa
DharmaTroll
> On May 5, 7:24 am, DharmaTroll <dharmatr...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > On May 5, 7:03 am, norbu.tra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > "yank your chain" so that DT can show you are obsessed
> > > and jump to conclusions.
>
> > No, I already demonstrated that Tang was obsessed last year with his
> > hilarious confusion of me with Jigme --
>
> i think, pardon me for disagreeing, that Tang is somewhat rightly cautious of Usenet
> identity posing...i, for example, could be 'Foot, or Mizar, or one of the founders of
> TRB...but i'm not, just me...But what proof? People do assume names, etc on usenet...
> i could start posting as Mr. Dharma Troll, Lord Jigme, etc, ape speech pattens and
> vocabularies...i think a little caution on usenet is recommended ...
Being cautious is one thing, but obsessive and then not correcting
your initial guess when a friend of both of Jigme and me (Evelyn)
confirmed that I wasn't he is silly. Tang's a smart guy, but when he
gets it wrong, even on something silly like this, he won't budge and
correct himself. It's that quality about him, not the particular
accusing me of being someone else, at which I'm poking fun.
> > I was just poking fun at him.
> > Actually, I miss Tang -- as nutz and emotionally challenged as Tang
> > can be sometimes, I remember lots of things Tang posted as so right on
> > the money and applicable in daily situations, and I miss his good
> > shit, and want to discuss Buddhism for the most part.
>
> He's still doing that good shit. If there is a particular topic you want to start a discussion with
> him on just do that. We're all a little nutz, but Tang isn't as nuts or fragile as you seem to think him.
> If he says that your Jigme or whatever, just say "No, I'm not", and get onto the topic.
If I thought Tang was actually fragile, I wouldn't have so much fun at
his expense. And I did say "No, I'm not" last time, and Tang kept
calling me Jigme and babbling about his 'crashing' stuff (which he
tends to claim about any intelligent poster who has ever disagreed
with him on anything) and so I went with that and posted all sorts of
fun stuff. But I can do both, make fun of Tang (or anyone else) in
silly threads, and discuss Buddhism on serious ones, and they can both
be discussions with Tang.
DharmaTroll
wrote:
Well it's great to hear that you still have that useful spirit beneath
your Cardinal's robes and can throw insults like a teenager. But can
you still talk Dharma?
--DharmaTroll
jfe...@googlemail.com
> On Tue, 6 May 2008 23:43:34 -0400, Robert Epstein wrote
> (in article <Gz9Uj.23847$qW.13089@trnddc06>):
>
>
>
> > tara wrote:
>
> >> On Tue, 6 May 2008 11:25:04 -0400, Robert Epstein wrote
> >> (in article <kL_Tj.7065$zw.3867@trnddc04>):
>
> >>> tara wrote:
>
> >>>> On Mon, 5 May 2008 16:51:41 -0400, Robert Epstein wrote
> >>>> (in article <xrKTj.3015$0L.832@trnddc07>):
>
> >>>>> pseudomodo wrote:
>
> >>>>>> Pipe smokers don't suffer the disease rate of cigarette smokers.
>
> >>>>> Also, a large percentage inhale and get lung cancer as well.
>
> >>>> My dad was a pipe smoker all his life, and then in his early seventies,
> >>>> he
> >>>> got cancer of the throat. He also smoked cigars, but only on occasion.
> >>>> His
> >>>> pipe was always in his mouth from his late teens till then. He had lots
> >>>> of
> >>>> pipe paraphernalia. I remember when he learned that he had throat cancer,
> >>>> he
> >>>> ritually threw every bit of it out.
>
> >>>> He did survive by the way, but the 'cure' did affect his quality of life.
>
> >>>> At
> >>>> the end of his life at 86 he couldn't speak because of the nerve damage
> >>>> from
> >>>> the radiation.
>
> >>>> tara
>
> >>> That is very tough. Luckily, my Dad stopped smoking his pipe some years
> >>> ago, after about 30 years, first 15 of non-stop cigs, then the constant
> >>> pipe for another 15. One day his throat started hurting and he got
> >>> furious at himself, and stopped right then and there, never smoked
> >>> again.
>
> >> smart man, and lucky.
>
> >> I doubt he'd still be around at 88 if he hadn't quit. For a
>
> >>> little while there, he loved his pipe more than any one of us. We just
> >>> accepted that the pipe came first. :)
>
> >> same in our house :). I loved the smell of his pipe tobacco.
>
> > me too.
>
> > guess the name of his tobacco?
>
> > revelation. ha ha,
>
> > guess it presaged my interest in mysticism.
>
> haha, who knows, eh.
>
>
>
>
>
> > I can still sort of smell it in my mind;
> > smelled especially good when it *wasn't* burning.
>
> >>> I smoked cigarettes myself for over ten years. Started young to "be
> >>> cool" and quit in my mid-20s, just to give you an idea of how young I
> >>> started. We used to forge notes from our parents to buy cigarettes at
> >>> the local store.
>
> >> sounds like you and I started out the same. I started at 15.
>
> > 13. Hate to admit it. Yeesh!
> > how "cool" was I. [read: stupid.]
>
> Who isn't stupid at 13, or 15 for that matter, eh ;)
>
>
>
> > At least I resisted the half a tab of acid that some 20 year old on the
> > street wanted to split with me. I think at 13 that would have had a
> > pretty severe permanent effect.
>
> Yeah. I was in art school and totally surrounded by all kinds of drugs and
> I don't know why but I just passed on all but grass. But nice that none of my
> friends thought I was uncool because of that.
>
>
>
> > But grass and cigarettes were fun for a while. <cough>
>
> :)
>
> tara
>
>
>
> > Robert
>
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = =
The shop close to our school used to sell loosies (loose cigs) a bit
obvious when you had your school uniform on eh? Two puffs and your
legs went to jelly. I've stopped twice for 6 months each time but
started again. It's such a great feeling to get rid of them I felt
allot stronger and I could actually taste my mouth. :)
DharmaTroll
wrote:
>
> Right. This medium called Usenet is harmless.
> It only deals with mere words on the screen.
> The people who use it cannot be harmed by
> mere words on the screen, unless they want
> it. People who want to break cannot be stopped,
> and people who don't want to break cannot be
> broken by mere words on the screen.
I beg to differ, Cardinal Tang. (And yes, I know Tang isn't a
Cardinal, but I'm referring to the Inquisition, where the clergy
tortured people, and if they confessed, they were guilty; if they
didn't then they died being tortured.)
First, the "they must want it" is a terrible rationalization. As for
not being able to be hurt by words on the screen, while technically
true, it's false. It's not the words that hurt them, it's the second
arrow. Come on, Tang, why don't you use that silicon brain of yours
and dig up the quote from whatever-the-hell sutra in the Pali Canon
and quote us the parable of the second arrow.
For anyone who hasn't heard it, this is one of the most powerful
parables of the Buddha. Now the distinction made is between pain and
suffering, but here between the "mere words" and one's reactions, the
parable works just as well. The ordinary suffering person is like
someone who is struck by two arrows. The Buddha compares being
afflicted with bodily pain to being struck by the first arrow. Adding
mental pain (aversion, displeasure, depression, or self-pity) to
physical pain is being hit by a second arrow. The wise person stops
with the first arrow. Simply by calling the pain by its true name, one
can keep it from extending beyond the physical, and thereby stop it
from inflicting deep and penetrating wounds upon the spirit.
What you do, Tang, reminds me of an old Benny Hill skit. Benny runs
around and dangles this piece of string in front of some fellow, and
the fellow shrieks in fear and runs away and Benny laughs. He does
this several times. Finally, someone else asks Benny, "what the hell
is wrong with that guy -- how come he's such a sissy that he's afraid
of a little piece of string?" Benny replies, "They hanged his father
this morning -- he just has no sense of humor."
Tang, your words are like Benny's string. No string can't hurt people
any more than words on a screen. But they remind the guy that his
father was hanged, and that memory leads to unpleasant emotions, which
hurt. You go around like Benny, and then say "string can't hurt
anybody -- they must want to feel bad -- they are crashed -- I am so
serene and such a better Buddhist." No, I don't think so, Tang.
I don't know any other Buddhists in real life, especially advanced
practitioners and teachers, who try to trigger painful memories or
emotions in people, and then say "it's only string -- they have no
sense of humor -- I am so serene -- nobody can upset me." I know lots
of obnoxious 15-year-olds that play interactive games and that show
impersonal serenity, however. So I don't think it's a Buddhist
quality at all, that which you brag about, Cardinal Tang.
> People who want to preserve themselves know how
> to and do, and people who want to break know
> how to and do. In this rather harmless medium
> everything is free and everything is voluntary.
> We are all adults and we are all responsible for
> ourselves.
Balderdash. Those are just the words of a bully not taking
responsibility. Nobody wants to be shot by the second arrow, Tang.
You intentionally try to provoke irritation in people so that you can
brag about being better than they are (a better insensitive juvenile
delinquent, not a better serene Buddhist, I would argue). Your
victims don't want to be insulted, Tang, and they might actually be
here for friendship an discourse, not as participants in your S&M
games.
> These boards are not kindergartens for babies.
>
> People who are fragile or loose upstairs should
> not be here, surely not without supervision,
Yeah, yeah. So if you're not perfectly enlightened, then you
shouldn't be here, and Tang can insult you all he wants and if it
pisses you off, it's not his fault at all, but it's all yours and
you've 'crashed' and Tang is totally innocent and just a benevolent
Buddhist giving you teaching by showing you how unenlightened and
human you are. This is the same old story you've been peddling for
years.
Too bad in real life you're a coward, Tang, and don't take real risks,
while you firewall yourself behind your keyboard and fling virtual
feces at other folks and then say "it's all fluff". Yeah, that makes
you a real Buddhist. Hah. Same old Cardinal Tang.
> only because they can break themselves, from
> their own side, using these boards as mere
> excuse. The people who get hurt hurt
> themselves, in closed circle. The people who
> burn themselves out burn themselves out with
> their own energy, in closed circle.
Who is it again that is trapped in a closed circle?
Look in a mirror, Cardinal Tang.
--DharmaTroll
Awaken21
> On Tue, 6 May 2008 19:03:55 -0400, Awaken21 wrote
> (in article
> <7cb72499-5168-4881-93fa-fbd3ad885...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>):
>
>
>
> >> I still smoke. And I hate that I am addicted to it.
>
> > I'm on my 5th time quitting. It's been 4 years this time.
>
> Congrats! :) I guess you can legitimately call yourself a non-smoker.
No, I went 5 years last time. OTOH this time, for the first time,
there are no cravings what-so-ever, that's a hopeful first.
Evelyn Ruut
news:f83a71ea-f1fc-4461...@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Hi again,
Yes, I would tend to agree that it is. Especially when it comes to usenet.
There is so little we really know about each other. But there are still
those who see "Jigme" behind every new poster, even when it is not so.
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
Evelyn Ruut
Tom, I recognized your style almost instantly, and I can't imagine anyone
confusing Jigme with you. I have always enjoyed your posts immensely, and
you definitely liven things up around here! It was great fun to tune into
your many excellent conversations with Hayes and others. I often wonder
how you are and what you are doing.
The real Jigme wrote to me a few months back and I tried my best to convince
him to return to newsgroups.... and he isn't the slightest bit interested,
unfortunately. I wish he would post again if only to help Tang over this
thing. He is a kind, gentle soul and he doesn't post because he takes the
buddha's own advice and avoids conflict and such.
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
Evelyn Ruut
news:48222db2$0$7721$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
Ooops! Made a mistake. My memory failed me. The phrase she was
supposed to remember was "forget about it" .... not "don't think about it".
--
Best Regards,
Evelyn
small tortoiseshell
> On May 7, 6:09 pm, Tang Huyen <tanghuyen{dele...@gmail.com[remove]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Ali wrote:
> > > Tang Huyen:
>
> > > >Right. He does good talk and bad practice.
> > > >Rigmarole, for short.
>
> But can
> you still talk Dharma?
"
The White Paintings shocked the artistic community at Black Mountain,
and word of the "scandal" spread to the New York art world long before
they were first exhibited at the Stable Gallery in October 1953. While
generally misunderstood at the time, the works were highly influential
for Rauschenberg's frequent collaborator, the composer John Cage.
Under the sway of the Buddhist aesthetics of Zen, Cage interpreted the
blank surfaces as "landing strips" or receptors for light and shadow,
and was inspired to pursue the corresponding notion of silence and
ambient sound in music. His response, 4'33" (1952), consisted of the
pianist sitting quietly at the piano without touching the keys for
four minutes and thirty-three seconds so that incidental sounds in the
surrounding environment—such as the wind in the trees outside or the
whispering of audience members—determined the content of the piece "
http://www.guggenheim.org/exhibitions/singular_forms/flash.html
>
> --DharmaTroll
Robert Epstein
> On May 6, 11:25 pm, Robert Epstein <vze25...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Ali wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 5 May 2008 06:31:12 -0400, "Evelyn Ruut"
>>><evelyn.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>"DharmaTroll" <dharmatr...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:b7ca31c7-400b-4b85...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>>>On May 4, 1:50 pm, Dave K <dkotsch...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>Btw, "Carefully, attentively, bang your head against that brick wall"
>>>>>might do the trick in terms of nasty habits such as smoking
>>>>>cigarettes. Smokers have all sorts of emotional attachments and
>>>>>conditioned patterns that are connected to the habit (aside from the
>>>>>physical addiction) and slowing it down. Enormously helpful is simply
>>>>>watching the patterns when one craves a cigarette and noting the
>>>>>soothing effect of it and what emotional states triggered the craving
>>>>>for one and what feelings were present during the smoking process.
>>>>>Getting to know all that infrastructure mindfully may be a better shot
>>>>>at ending the nasty habit instead of willfully struggling against it
>>>>>and then finding that one is overwhelmed by the habit. Indeed, there
>>>>>is a lot to be said for carefully, attentively continuing a
>>>>>destructive pattern. And just forgiving the habit, that is, accepting
>>>>>it as what is and dropping the "I shouldn't be this way" judgments,
>>>>>might be the best step to ending the habit. Mindfulness often works
>>>>>that way, I've noticed.
>>
>>>>>--DharmaTroll (plus whatever other posters Tang merges with me this
>>>>>time around)
>>
>>>>Almost couldn't believe my eyes. Hi, if that is really you!
>>
>>>He's got that original dharmatr...@my-deja.com addy thingy, which is a
>>>nice touch if not genuine.
>>
>>>Now if he just fires a blast across the bow at the Tangster aka Dr.
>>>Ming the Merciless, or some Dramatrollery or other... we'd have a true
>>>deja-moment....
>>
>>>Of course, the old D'enfant Terrible should be allowed to age
>>>gracefully too.
>>
>>He's been practicing that mindfulness stuff. Ruins the personality.
>>
>>Robert
>>
>>- - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
> Hah! Hi Robert!
>
> -DharmaTroll
Hey DT!
:)