death penalty/ abortion...
CuteShori
the issues death penalty and abortion?
-Shori
Evelyn Ruut
CuteShori <cute...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20000110011010...@ng-co1.news.cs.com...
Dear Shori,
Buddhists believe that we should not kill things, but it gets a bit more
complicated than
that. The life of a human being is very precious. But it is also true,
that we buddhist don't like hard and fast rules, sharp contrasts in right
and wrong, black and white. Life is seldom like that. There could be
an exception somehow. Somehow it seems clearer for the death penalty than
for the issue of abortion.
Ultimately we are all responsible for our actions, and this is the ultimate
judgement where such issues are concerned. You can do what you want, but
only must deal with the karma you then create. Regarding abortion, if one
were starving, ones children were likewise starving, and the birth of
another child might cause great hardship and suffering for the existing
children, abortion, although wrong in itself, might actually be the more
compassionate action, killing though it might be. In this case it might
be more like a "mercy killing" I am describing here, for a hypothetical
case.
Motivation is important. I personally do not support abortion any longer,
since I do believe that it is killing and causes great suffering to the
being who is incarnating. But I also believe that abortion must be kept
legal, since desperate frightened women may do great harm to themselves in
an attempt to rid themselves of an unwanted pregnancy. They deserve clean
and healthy recourse, rather than back alley abortionists botch jobs.
This does not make their action right, but it is a matter of sensitivity.
These women do not deserve to die at the hands of back alley abortionists
because they are at that time in their own spiritual evolution, insensitive
to the fact that pregnancy is sheltering a living being with sentience and
consciousness, and yes, powerful karmic connection to them personally, or
because our society does not provide for such children to have a good life
and proper care and guidance, or because the mother is afraid of censure.
As an analogy, In our society, chlorine is known as a carcinogen, yet we
chlorinate almost all public water supplies, since it is also a fact that
before chlorination, people suffered from all manner of hideous water borne
diseases that decimated whole populations. This does not make chlorine any
less poisonous, but it is in some ways, the lesser of evils.
So where abortion is concerned, it is not quite so simple for a buddhist as
say it might be for a Catholic, where it is much more clearly stated. But
ultimately, yes we do believe that it is killing a living and feeling being.
And yes, killing is an act with karmic consequences.
Regards,
Evelyn
rain...@my-deja.com
cute...@cs.com (CuteShori) wrote:
> It might be obvious but I just want to know what are the thought of
Buddhist on
> the issues death penalty and abortion?
>
> -Shori
>
Not a good thing...
a buddhist should not kill!
Not for food, not as punishment, not to avoid children etc.
Of course this is a complex thing as the buddhist reasons
may not be usable for legislation!
For example, although abortion is a form of killing there
might be reasons to allow abortion if it is not causing
suffering to a being. But a buddhist should not do such...
yours
rain
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Jigme...@mindful.com
-Shori
The justification for the death penalty depends entirely upon the
circumstances.
For Buddhists the death penalty is rather pointless; we just keep
coming back. Christians, however, have someplace nice to go and just can't
wait to get there. Which is probably why they make such reckless drivers.
Fetuses are a little harder to read. There are generally two camps with
regard to fetucide.
There are those who want to rid us once and for all of that scourge
of parasites, and those would have us venerate them for idol worship.
Of course, once they lose their status as fetuses, they are persona non
grata and groomed for capital punishment if they happen to be the wrong
color.
This just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. It seems a lot more
more sensible and economical to eliminate people as fetuses rather than as
a full-grown adults. Certainly, it's more economical to get them before any
money has yet been squandered on them - other than the tab for dinner,
drink and a room. Besides, they're not as hard to get - it's like shooting
fish in a barrel. And that lowers our taxes for law enforcement.
It costs a fortune to raise a snot-nosed spoiled egotistical brat and
practically just as much to raise a responsible adult. Either way you
wind up broke and the scapegoat for his problems.
If you raise enough debt to pay for his med school, what can you expect
in return? He'll set up an abortion practice across the street leaving
you to deal with noisy protesters, bomb threats and declining property
values.
And at the height of his greatest earning power, your child will probably be
shot by a crazed fanatic who will live out the remaining years of his life
appealing a capital punishment verdict on your tax dollars. His tombstone
will
read "Shit happens..."
Do I advocate abortion? Not really; instead, would-be parents should
be required to undergo thorough psychiatric testing.
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Lee Dillion
>
> It might be obvious but I just want to know what are the thought of Buddhist on
> the issues death penalty and abortion?
Three articles on Buddhism and abortion can be found at
http://jbe.la.psu.edu/5/current5.html
--
Lee Dillion
dill...@micron.net
DharmaTroll
Jigme...@mindful.com wrote:
> cuteshori>It might be obvious but I just want to know what are
> the thought of Buddhist on the issues death penalty and abortion?
> -Shori
>
> The justification for the death penalty depends entirely upon the
> circumstances.
>
> For Buddhists the death penalty is rather pointless; we just keep
> coming back. Christians, however, have someplace nice to go and
> just can't wait to get there.
Jigme, you are full of it. Superstitions have nothing to do with the
death penalty. The point is that Buddhists don't find killing to be
justified. They would go for life sentences, but don't believe in
taking another life needlessly. That is the point, not superstitions
about life after death. Many Christians also agree with that as well.
Abortion is more difficult. In Christianity, there is a spook which
God places into the fetus, so abortion is murder. In Buddhism, where
people are conditions arising together, and there is no spookie, it
really shouldn't be as much of a problem. Yet many Buddhists feel the
same way. Since the blob of cells is a person building kit and hasn't
developed a nervous system that can think and feel, I don't see the
problem. And the 'morning after' pill is only something to whine about
if you believe in a superstition about spooks entering the body.
If you look at the evidence, then it is really just a form of
contraception. Whether you kill the spermies with spermacide or kill
the group of cells that is no larger than a grain of rice is no
different in my book. It's not even as big a deal as removing an
inflamed appendix. Why any Buddhist would have a problem with it
baffles me.
--Dharmakaya Trollpa
Kwanseum
(dharm...@my-deja.com) wrote...
>
[...]
>
>Abortion is more difficult. In Christianity, there is a spook which
>God places into the fetus, so abortion is murder. In Buddhism, where
>people are conditions arising together, and there is no spookie, it
>really shouldn't be as much of a problem. Yet many Buddhists feel the
>same way. Since the blob of cells is a person building kit and hasn't
>developed a nervous system that can think and feel, I don't see the
>problem. And the 'morning after' pill is only something to whine about
>if you believe in a superstition about spooks entering the body.
>If you look at the evidence, then it is really just a form of
>contraception. Whether you kill the spermies with spermacide or kill
>the group of cells that is no larger than a grain of rice is no
>different in my book. It's not even as big a deal as removing an
>inflamed appendix. Why any Buddhist would have a problem with it
>baffles me.
Buddhists might be more inclined to simply want to be on the high
side of the slippery slope, which could have the same practical
effect WRT prohibition. We can't say for certain when those
"conditions arising together" begin to feel and be aware in
some sense, so we may want to make sure that we never risk it.
This might not be the total prohibition that some would want
but it might not favour the "pro-choice" side completely either.
It's where I tend to hang my hat on the issue.
There is another way in which Buddhists might be opposed to
abortion or even birth control. Human incarnation is considered
a great opportunity for enlightenment, one that would be
missed without incarnation. I don't think much of that either
way.
--
Kwanseum
Mahasanti
--
Namo tassa Bhagavato Arahato Samma Sambuddhassa!
(Homage to Him, the Exalted, the Worthy, the Fully Enlightened One!)
--
DharmaTroll <dharm...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:85e1tp$503$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Abortion is more difficult. In Christianity, there is a spook which
> God places into the fetus, so abortion is murder. In Buddhism, where
> people are conditions arising together, and there is no spookie, it
> really shouldn't be as much of a problem.
There is definitely a gandharva being descent into the womb to receive the
suffering. For this birth is suffering because it is the basis for the
suffering in the states of loss as made evident by the Blessed One by means
of simile in the Balapandita Sutta (M.iii,165f.), etc., and for the
suffering that arises in the happy destinies in the human world and is
classed as 'rooted in the descent into the womb', and so on.
>Yet many Buddhists feel the
> same way. Since the blob of cells is a person building kit and hasn't
> developed a nervous system that can think and feel, I don't see the
> problem. And the 'morning after' pill is only something to whine about
> if you believe in a superstition about spooks entering the body.
> If you look at the evidence, then it is really just a form of
> contraception. Whether you kill the spermies with spermacide or kill
> the group of cells that is no larger than a grain of rice is no
> different in my book. It's not even as big a deal as removing an
> inflamed appendix. Why any Buddhist would have a problem with it
> baffles me.
Because buddhist accept the fact that there is definitely a gandharva being
descent into the womb to receive the suffering. For this birth is suffering
because it is the basis for the suffering in the states of loss as made
evident by the Blessed One by means of simile in the Balapandita Sutta
(M.iii,165f.), etc., and for the suffering that arises in the happy
destinies in the human world and is classed as 'rooted in the descent into
the womb', and so on.
But because you refused to accept the fact that there is definitely a
gandharva being descent into the womb to receive the suffering and so cannot
accept what it is said: 'When the mother has an abortion, the pain that
arises in him (the unborn child) through the cutting and rending in the
place where the pain arises that is not fit to be seen by friends and
intimates and companions - this is the suffering rooted in abortion.' [501].
Whoever induced suffering to another beings, either in harming or killing
them, there will be kammic retribution for that.
--
Wherefore, buddhists, an effort must be made to realize: This is ill
(dukkha). This is the cause of ill. This is the ceasing of ill. This is the
practice that leads to the ceasing of ill.
Akasattha ca bhumma ttha dera haga mahiddhika,
Punnaantan amumoditiva, ciram rakkhantu sasanam
(Celestial deities, earth deities, powerful dragon-like deities,
and god-like deities, with honour receive this merit, always
protect the flourishing of sacred doctrine)
Mahasanti
URL: http://mahasantisangha.jumptunes.com/mara_disciples.htm
Home: http://www.angelfire.com/ia/mahasanti/index.html