TOO EXTREME!
Wompom
It is true that I have a tendency to depression so I can see things to be on
the 'black' side. However 'pointless' and 'dead-ness' are far too extreme
positions imo. Much like LUST is an extreme position. I thot this Buddy
thing was all about 'a middle way' free from extremes?
Now with absolutley no reference points whatsover, with internal and
extrenal 'forces' pulling you all we have is ourselves? All we can work with
is ourselves, somehow we must cast free from these forces and abide in calm?
Tang Huyen
Wompom wrote:
Right, dear. We have some pointing from ancient
sages like the Buddha, the Old One (Lao-zi) and
Stoic sages -- pointing that is rather convergent --
but that's all, and we still have to apply it to
ourselves. And when we work with ourselves, all
that we have is ourselves, in all our nakedness, and
nothing and nobody are of help. The external world,
including the advice from such sages, counts for
almost nothing. We can yet learn to adjust ourselves
the way falling cats adjust themselves in mid-air,
and indeed all we can do is to adjust ourselves to
ourselves, align ourselves to ourselves, harmonise
ourselves with ourselves, straighten ourselves out, in
closed circle. We are faced with a morass of
intuitions, from sense, emotion, intellect, etc., and
that is all that we have. We can discriminate as to
what each of it is, what class it falls into, and react
accordingly, and for normal life we indeed have to
(to begin walking, we have to choose to put one foot
forward first and then the other, to eat we have to
choose this morsel to eat first and then another one,
and we cannot gulp down all the food that we need
for the rest of our lives in a single gulp, etc.), but we
can also plane above it all, in calm and serenity,
detachment and equability, and take everything in
levity and flexibility, iow in fluff. In such state we
can indeed gulp down the whole universe in a single
gulp (that is the moment, so beloved of zenworm,
the moment that encompasses everything and from
which everything is derived, the Spinozan substance
that serves as the thing of all things and that oozes
out grace to those who don't do anything, especially
anything to deserve it), yet also cast ourselves free
from everything and abide in calm and serenity, with
absolutely no reference points whatsoever, referring
nothing to nothing.
Tang Huyen
Wompom
news:1oWdnbKuob3G97LW...@supernews.com...
Plane above it or just sit in it
:-)
Well said imo
zenworm
> "Tang Huyen" <tanghuyen{dele...@gmail.com[remove]> wrote in message
there is no way to be separate
nowhere to go
nothing to do
this is it
already
Now
relax and be present
this is Moment
ZN :D _/|\_
absolute permanent perfection overflowing without effort
AdvocatusDiablo
"Tang Huyen" <tanghuyen{delete}@gmail.com[remove]> wrote in message
news:1oWdnbKuob3G97LW...@supernews.com...
>
>
are you suggesting 'conscious egoism'?
Keynes
'Ego' seems to be personal resistence to opposing
forces, such as nature, and especially other people.
'Ego' is a mental model of disparagement in most cases.
But consider one's resources. All one has is himself.
An altruist may sacrifice personal pleasures for the
sake of others. He certainly doesn't do that in order
to feel bad. (Unless to him, feeling bad feels good,
an absurdity.)
Don't we all try to maximize our satisfactiom
and to minimize our dissatisfaction? If anybody says
different, they must be over-simplifying. I think there
is nothing motivating people but the quest for personal
satisfaction. Even the 'perverse' find pleasure in going
against the common stream.
We are basically and unavoidable self-ish. How could
it be otherwise? But the better of us realize that the
apparent otherness of that which appears outside, is
necessarily the actual content of what is inside. Mind
that contains otherness (as opposition), nevertheless is
composed necessarily even of that otherness, and cannot
regard it as outside, since it is part of the inside.
Opposition in a mind is a house divided, that cannot
stand. It's best not to deny selfishness (which must be
a total fraud), but to accept selfishness as the nature
of human being, and opposition as necessarily an
ingedient in one's own mental picture of things, and
not anything outside of or separate from one's mind.
Of course, on the idealistic scale we are all selfishly
vile and repugnant, but that's the way it is. Perhaps
it is only the scope of one's vision (and understanding
of his own mind as unseparated from itself) that allows
the better things of ethics to sprout and grow.
Doing good feels good, and doing bad ultimately
feels bad. There's no shame in that.
AdvocatusDiablo
"Keynes" <Key...@earthlinkspam.net> wrote in message
news:8kcvi5d4eq3brff7l...@4ax.com...
do we 'do it' consciously or does it depend on how we are treated ('it' just
happens?)
we give someone the shirt off our back and get upset because they don't give
us their shirt so we can give it to another?
it's much easier (lazier) to think that one is capable of helping others
than to really work on one's self. but if a conscious decision is made to be
either egotistical or altruistic, then this decision has value.
otherwise, life just happens...and you may as well be content with whatever
life deals you.
Tang Huyen
Wompom wrote:
> Plane above it or just sit in it
>
> :-)
>
> Well said imo
<<My thoughts relating to the present moment being a
choice of heaven or hell right now was relating to a
comment from another thread about Ram Dass, who
once described the difference between a good trip and
a bad trip. He was talking about an acid trip, but also,
I think, about how we can choose to experience the
present moment right now. The bad trip was like
getting on a roller-coaster, and as the coaster starts to
accelerate down the first hill, realizing that one is
trapped on the coaster and can't get off, feeling intense
fear, clinging to the rails, and screaming. He then
described the good trip. The sensations and
experiences were exactly the same in every way as the
bad trip, except as the coaster begins to accelerate
down that first hill, he feels excited and awed, and says
"here we go again".
I think Dass was articulating the paradoxical Zen saying
that "samsara is nirvana", the only difference being the
clinging to the rails. My take on awakening or on
practices that lead in that direction, is that the goal is
not to escape life and get off the roller coaster, but
rather to say "here we go again" and embrace the
present moment without clinging to the rails and wanting
to be someplace else; and that just that difference is the
choice between experiencing heaven instead of hell in
the present moment.>> Jigme (DharmaTroll), 22 Nov
2006.
That is just to sit in it and wallow in it, positively.
Tang Huyen
Tang Huyen
AdvocatusDiablo wrote:
> are you suggesting 'conscious egoism'?
Consciousness and whatever comes to it.
Do not put up any resistance, but let it
come and let it go. If you fit anything into
any box or refer anything to anything,
that is resistance.
Tang Huyen
Tang Huyen
AdvocatusDiablo wrote:
> do we 'do it' consciously or does it depend on how
> we are treated ('it' just happens?)
>
> we give someone the shirt off our back and get
> upset because they don't give us their shirt so we
> can give it to another?
>
> it's much easier (lazier) to think that one is capable
> of helping others than to really work on one's self.
> but if a conscious decision is made to be either
> egotistical or altruistic, then this decision has value.
> otherwise, life just happens...and you may as well
> be content with whatever life deals you.
<<life just happens...and you may as well
be content with whatever life deals you.>>
That is the alpha and omega of wisdom.
Technique is quite dispensible. If you get
it, technique is useless, and if you don't,
technique is useless. By the way, what life
deals you is your lot (moira in Greek).
It is easy to see how lifelong rebels like Fu
and DharmaTroll are never going to be
happy, because they don't get that truth.
Tang Huyen
AdvocatusDiablo
first, do what is easy, then learn to do what is difficult. one can not
start with the most difficult....
Astral Hereticus
And once YOU've been THERE, all you can do is smile, a CHESHIRE CAT
SMILE -- it makes people think you're up to something :-) .
AH
On Dec 21, 7:30 am, Tang Huyen <tanghuyen{dele...@gmail.com[remove]>
wrote:
zenworm
wrote:
> AdvocatusDiablo wrote:
> > do we 'do it' consciously or does it depend on how
> > we are treated ('it' just happens?)
>
> > we give someone the shirt off our back and get
> > upset because they don't give us their shirt so we
> > can give it to another?
expectations?
> > it's much easier (lazier) to think that one is capable
> > of helping others than to really work on one's self.
> > but if a conscious decision is made to be either
> > egotistical or altruistic, then this decision has value.
> > otherwise, life just happens...and you may as well
> > be content with whatever life deals you.
comparison?
resignation?
> <<life just happens...and you may as well
> be content with whatever life deals you.>>
>
> That is the alpha and omega of wisdom.
what would you call the transition
from 'have to' to 'get to';
from 'resignation' to 'celebration';
from 'old dead victim stories' to 'Moment evernew'?
put down the 'you'?
Life is happening... Life is overflowing... this Moment
ZN :D _/|\_
absolute permanent perfection overflowing without effort