Consider Yourself Warned!
punnadhammo
-------BEGIN QUOTE-----
[ from the thread "Buddhists, Your Dreams and Mind Control"
From: Gabriel (nos...@newsranger.com) Message 1 in
thread
Subject: Buddhists, Your Dreams and Mind Control
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
Date: 2001-07-08 00:52:35 PST
Buddhists do nothing but BRAINWASH YOU.
THIS IS HOW THEY DO IT:
1. They try to get you to trust them.
2. To gain your trust, they talk 'spiritual' hocus-pocus foolosophy.
3. After they THINK that you have 'bought into' their mumbo-jumbo, they
then teach you TWO PHASES of meditation.
4. The first phase of meditation is a 'cleansing' phase, with physical
results that you feel, to 'show' you they, indeed, know what they are
talking
about.
5. THEY THEN TRY TO IMPLANT FALSE MEMORIES AND DREAMS INTO YOUR MIND!
6. NEXT, they then 'magically' cross refer or mention KEY PHRASES OR
'TRIGGER WORDS' that relates to the false dreams and memories that they
implanted into your mind in the first place.
This is a two fold attack on your mind. That is, they look to
'astonish' and
'frighten' you.
This is just to further 'drive into your mind' that they do, indeed,
'know'
what they are doing. Understand, this is just A SHOW, these fools are
perfect examples of hypocrites, 'white-washed walls'.
7. The first phase of the meditation technique usually goes on for 6 -
18 months,
and during this time, they continue to implant into your mind, false
dreams and
memories.
Do not be surprised by this, they do this from a spiritual plane with
their
'babble chants', what they are really doing is manipulating you from a
spiritual
plane - THIS HURTS PEOPLE SO IT IS EVIL.
8. After about 24 months, they teach you a final meditation, where you
are to do
something weird with your eyes while meditating - this is a very
dangerous
technique that affects your mind severely.
So a person finally becomes a blank screen, a marionette, that is, A
PUPPET, to
be the plaything of FOOLS.
This is why every Christian MUST thoroughly study The Book of Proverbs.
Studying it will train you to Guard your Mind.
This is the secret meaning to the proverb:
FACT: More than all that you guard,GUARD YOUR MIND, for it is the
source of
Life.
- Proverbs 4:23
Ananda
you:-
1) smash you into pieces and fry you like a togu ( seetoh )
2) bored you to death by sending you a long list of buddhist books to read
evelyn )
3) probably send a division of kalachakra warriors to chop you into pieces
gier )
4) probably send a lovesick devas to seduce you ( dar )
5) probably to confuse you with the bhava-nirvana concept to finish you off
( cupcake )
punnadhammo <arcc@STOPSPAM_baynet.net> wrote
John Arkle
thing you know we'll have John Travolta playing Milarepa...
John
DharmaTroll
>
>Here is something I found on Usenet
>
>-------BEGIN QUOTE-----
>
>[ from the thread "Buddhists, Your Dreams and Mind Control"
>
>From: Gabriel (nos...@newsranger.com)
>Subject: Buddhists, Your Dreams and Mind Control
>Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy
>Date: 2001-07-08 00:52:35 PST
>
>Buddhists do nothing but BRAINWASH YOU.
>
>THIS IS HOW THEY DO IT:
>
>1. They try to get you to trust them.
>
>2. To gain your trust, they talk 'spiritual' hocus-pocus foolosophy.
Good Heavens, Bhante! Namdrool must be quite busy getting converts, eh?
--DT
punnadhammo
> 8. After about 24 months, they teach you a final meditation, where you
> are to do
> something weird with your eyes while meditating - this is a very
> dangerous
> technique that affects your mind severely.
I must be so backward. I've been practising twenty years and I still
haven't been taught the eye-ball meditation. Am I missing something
*really* good?
seetoh
>To add to the list, here are the folowing things fellow buddhists do to
>you:-
>1) smash you into pieces and fry you like a togu ( seetoh )
Whatever a togu is, it will be interesting
if you add peppers and peppermint to it.
Use grapeseed oil for high frying temperatures.
>2) bored you to death by sending you a long list of buddhist books to read
> evelyn )
>3) probably send a division of kalachakra warriors to chop you into pieces
> gier )
>4) probably send a lovesick devas to seduce you ( dar )
>5) probably to confuse you with the bhava-nirvana concept to finish you off
>( cupcake )
Mara and his tempstreses are born of the mind.
They are not to be found outside the mind.
seetoh
Be still.
Alvis
seetoh <waike...@yahoo.com> wrote
> Whatever a togu is, it will be interesting
> if you add peppers and peppermint to it.
> Use grapeseed oil for high frying temperatures.
It's soft on the inside and crispy on the outside
> Mara and his tempstreses are born of the mind.
> They are not to be found outside the mind.
>
> seetoh
> Be still.
beware of togu man. He will get you.
seetoh
>seetoh <waike...@yahoo.com> wrote
>> Whatever a togu is, it will be interesting
>> if you add peppers and peppermint to it.
>> Use grapeseed oil for high frying temperatures.
>
>It's soft on the inside and crispy on the outside
In Geylang, there used to be a veg stall
with a very good cook. He can fry ice-cream.
The ice-cream remains frozen inside,
but the outside is fried till crisp.
>> Mara and his tempstreses are born of the mind.
>> They are not to be found outside the mind.
>>
>> seetoh
>> Be still.
>beware of togu man. He will get you.
Not if you keep still.
seetoh
Be still.
Alvis
dar <stubbo...@hotmail.com> wrote
> >>> Be still.
> >>beware of togu man. He will get you.
> >
> >
> >Not if you keep still.
> >
> if they had run away from you they'd be alive
>
> Run!
Hehehe, you have a way with words Dar. Now I better run away from you too
before I will be eaten too.
sphuratta
> In Geylang, there used to be a veg stall
> with a very good cook. He can fry ice-cream.
>
> The ice-cream remains frozen inside,
> but the outside is fried till crisp.
A buddhist ng is not an ideal place to talk about ice-cream!
Visitors to Geylang are best advised to avoid this disgusting delicacy. It
has the calories of ten Big Macs and adds 2 cm to your waist overnight. The
last thing a dedicated zafu-sitter needs.
sphuratta
The guy may have got his balls mixed up. There is an esoteric hindu/buddhist
yogic practice whereby the practitioner retracts his testicles permanently
into the body cavity as a sign of his supreme mastery of celibacy. A
dangerous technique sometimes, for sure, physically and mentally. Have you
not heard of this final meditation?
trizin
news:21fuktsqojcc3qrpe...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:31:59 +0800, "seetoh" <waike...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >>> Be still.
> >>beware of togu man. He will get you.
> >
> >Not if you keep still.
> >
> if they had run away from you they'd be alive
>
> Run!
Agreed. That's why I asked Alvis to keep still.
seetoh
B Still
trizin
news:9ipqjm$2ku$1...@clematis.singnet.com.sg...
Let's not talk about ice-cream.
We'll avoid talking about ice-cream,
even if it is the most delicious thing
in the world, and BTW, it is.
Since it is a disgusting delicacy,
we shall avoid talking about ice-cream.
seetoh
No ice-cream please.
sphuratta
> Let's not talk about ice-cream.
> We'll avoid talking about ice-cream,
> even if it is the most delicious thing
> in the world, and BTW, it is.
>
> Since it is a disgusting delicacy,
> we shall avoid talking about ice-cream.
thank you! The only food we may disgust on this ng is togu.
Thos638
>yogic practice whereby the practitioner retracts his testicles permanently
>into the body cavity as a sign of his supreme mastery of celibacy. A
>dangerous technique sometimes, for sure, physically and mentally. Have you
>not heard of this final meditation?
>
working on retracting my toes into my feet! Beam me up, Scotty!
thos
Ananda
sphuratta <sah...@so.spam.me> wrote
> The guy may have got his balls mixed up. There is an esoteric
hindu/buddhist
> yogic practice whereby the practitioner retracts his testicles permanently
> into the body cavity as a sign of his supreme mastery of celibacy. A
> dangerous technique sometimes, for sure, physically and mentally. Have you
> not heard of this final meditation?
Seetoh probably has tried this meditation. That's why he hasn't been
standing still since then.
cupcake
dar wrote:
> this means drag queens are the highest bodhisattvas
>
yeh!, ananda! and don't you ferget it! neither!
(i hafta go fix my eye liner, now, before
my bo comes a callin' :)
tah tah :)
Jonathan
sphuratta <sah...@so.spam.me> wrote
This amused me because about 20 years ago I started trying to follow
Patanjali's Yoga System. After I'd mastered the asana/posture section I had
no teacher for the pranayama/control of breath and 'prana' section which
most books said was dangerous without proper supervision by a teacher.
Naturally I decided to just improvise and experiment anyway and the result
was a week off work to save me from having to cycle in with a 'twisted
testicle' where one of them kept trying to retract back towards the body
cavity. If I'd have carried on I might have attained the supreme mastery of
celibacy anyway and if going the whole hog was like a multiplication of my
experience - I'd have probably also got the whole eye-ball rolling thing
thrown in for free.
Jonathan
Evelyn Ruut
I have never heard of it either, but I can think of a few people I would
LOVE to see do this. LOL!
Ev
sphuratta
i'm shaking with mirth!
Cupcake, you are in a class of your own. Unlike other indistinguishable
run-of-the-mill rabble-rousers, who have me groaning: "What was he/she
thinking when he/she posted this crap?", yer the only one who makes me go:
"What was he *wearing* when ... ... ..."
:::giggle:::
seetoh
>On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 06:19:33 +0800, "Ananda" <chi...@cyberway.com.sg>
>wrote:
>
>its called a tuck
>
>this means drag queens are the highest bodhisattvas
I don't know whether monks are checked
for their outhanging manhood before
they are admitted into the Sangha.
Thus may drag queens be eliminated.
seetoh
A requisite of monkhood is manhood.
seetoh
>On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 00:16:55 +0800, "trizin" <waike...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>i'm on to you
Which part of Alvis would you like?
seetoh
Not the heart of stone.
sphuratta
> I don't know whether monks are checked
> for their outhanging manhood before
> they are admitted into the Sangha.
>
> Thus may drag queens be eliminated.
Ever heard that famous joke about a gay monk and his tingling bell?
Ananda
seetoh <waike...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> Which part of Alvis would you like?
abstain from meat is lots easier than sex huh, Togu?
seetoh
seetoh
>On Sun, 15 Jul 2001 00:12:45 +0800, "trizin" <waike...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
What is sherbert?
seetoh
Don't think about ice-cream,
however delicious it might be.
seetoh
>
>seetoh <waike...@yahoo.com> wrote
>>
>> Which part of Alvis would you like?
>
>abstain from meat is lots easier than sex huh, Togu?
That's why it could be useful to have
castrated monks so that they won't stray.
Lu pian di ye hua pu yao cai.
seetoh
sphuratta
> >Ever heard that famous joke about a gay monk and his tingling bell?
>
>
> No.
My commiserations.
Ananda
Alvis <kk-...@hotmail.com> wrote
> why self professed vegan has semen stains on his hands? Because he has not
> been castrated yet.
Hehehehe! That's the way to go Alvis.
seetoh
>Alvis <kk-...@hotmail.com> wrote
>> why self professed vegan has semen stains on his hands? Because he has
not
>> been castrated yet.
Is it against the monastic code for
monks to have semen stains on their hands?
seetoh
A previous post follows:
> : As I understand the teaching regarding sex, precepts of The 8fold Path
> : apply to action, or more so, reaction, involving resistence and
> : nonresistence in the undertone. As is presented for monks centers in
> : intentional act (it's ok should one asleep awaken to a F seducing him
> : if he doesn't participate...hmmm;),>
> Or, as is much more likely, wakes up after having had a wet dream. This
> is not an offence at all in the Discipline, or please correct me if I'm
> wrong.>
> : but surely, this extends to dualized view in the reaction should one
> : pose resistence to what is occuring.>
> Waking up in the middle of being seduced seems like an unbelievably
> improbable occurence to me, esp. for a monk who doesn't have a woman
> in the bed with him, or even in the same room when he sleeps. If it
> should happen I really have no idea if he should resist or just remain
> passive.
Alvis
seetoh <waike...@yahoo.com> wrote
>
> Is it against the monastic code for
> monks to have semen stains on their hands?
>
> seetoh
> A previous post follows:
Why when people debate you on any topic you must divert it away to something
else. Did your mother ever teach you on how to debate? Ask your fucking
mother for the answer.
seetoh
Dear Alvis,
In a past life, I was your mother.
Hello friends of the Dhamma,
Please allow me to share some Dhamma with you,
May you and all our relatives be well and secure
may you and all our relatives be happy
may you and all our relatives receive the highest blessings
may you and all our relatives not kill
may you and all our relatives not cause others to kill
may you and all our relatives not conquer
may you and all our relatives not cause others to conquer
Anguttara Nikaya VIII.39 -- Abhisanda SuttaRewards
For free distribution only, as a gift of Dhamma
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
"Monks, there are these eight rewards of merit, rewards of skillfulness,
nourishments of happiness, celestial, resulting in happiness, leading to
heaven, leading to what is desirable, pleasurable, & appealing, to welfare &
happiness. Which eight?
"There is the case where a noble disciple has gone to the Buddha for refuge.
This is the first reward of merit, reward of skillfulness, nourishment of
happiness, celestial, resulting in happiness, leading to heaven, leading to
what is desirable, pleasurable, & appealing; to welfare & to happiness.
"Furthermore, the noble disciple has gone to the Dhamma for refuge. This is
the second reward of merit...
"Furthermore, the noble disciple has gone to the Sangha for refuge. This is
the third reward of merit...
"Now, there are these five gifts, five great gifts -- original,
long-standing, traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the
beginning -- that are not open to suspicion, will never be open to
suspicion, and are unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & priests.
Which five?
"There is the case where a noble disciple, abandoning the taking of life,
abstains from taking life. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger,
freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of
beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from
oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless
freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression.
This is the first gift, the first great gift -- original, long-standing,
traditional, ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning --
that is not open to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and is
unfaulted by knowledgeable contemplatives & priests. And this is the fourth
reward of merit...
"Furthermore, abandoning taking what is not given (stealing), the noble
disciple abstains from taking what is not given. In doing so, he gives
freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to
limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger, freedom from
animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings, he gains
a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, and
freedom from oppression. This is the second gift, the second great
gift...and this is the fifth reward of merit...
"Furthermore, abandoning illicit sex, the noble disciple abstains from
illicit sex. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from
animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving
freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to
limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from
danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the
third gift, the third great gift...and this is the sixth reward of merit...
"Furthermore, abandoning lying, the noble disciple abstains from lying. In
doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from
oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In giving freedom from danger,
freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of
beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from danger, freedom from
animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the fourth gift, the fourth
great gift...and this is the seventh reward of merit...
"Furthermore, abandoning the use of intoxicants, the noble disciple abstains
from taking intoxicants. In doing so, he gives freedom from danger, freedom
from animosity, freedom from oppression to limitless numbers of beings. In
giving freedom from danger, freedom from animosity, freedom from oppression
to limitless numbers of beings, he gains a share in limitless freedom from
danger, freedom from animosity, and freedom from oppression. This is the
fifth gift, the fifth great gift -- original, long-standing, traditional,
ancient, unadulterated, unadulterated from the beginning -- that is not open
to suspicion, will never be open to suspicion, and is unfaulted by
knowledgeable contemplatives & priests. And this is the eighth reward of
merit, reward of skillfulness, nourishment of happiness, celestial,
resulting in happiness, leading to heaven, leading to what is desirable,
pleasurable, & appealing; to welfare & to happiness.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Related reading:AN IV.111, as an example of gentle training.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Revised: 9 November 1998
http://world.std.com/~metta/canon/anguttara/an8-39.html
may all beings be well and securemay all beings be happy
may all beings receive the highest blessingsmay all beings not kill
may all beings not cause others to killmay all beings not conquer
may all beings not cause others to conquer.with mettaRichard--
I am subject to aging, I have not gone beyond aging. I am subject to
sickness, have not gone beyond sickness. I am subject to death, have not
gone beyond death. I grow different, separate from all that is dear and
appealing to me. I am the owner of my actions, heir to my actions, related
through my actions, born of my actions, related through my actions, I have
my actions as my arbitor. Whatever I do, for good or for evil to that will I
fall heir.
From: Used-To-Be-Your-Mother
Alvis
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uqxce9yo
seetoh <waike...@yahoo.com> >
> Dear Alvis,
> From: Used-To-Be-Your-Mother
Ananda
This is shocking news to all of us here Alvis. Your mother is Togu?
Gosh. I just hope that Tang Huyen is not your long lost aunt. If you need
some support try and contact LLMA group or "long lost mother anonymous". Is
there any way of asking Togu who is your long lost father by any chance?
Don't do any I would do.
Evelyn Ruut
"seetoh" <waike...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:20010719043756.139$F...@news.newsreader.com...
Seetoh, this was just lovely.
(bowing to you, hands together...)
Regards,
Evelyn
sphuratta
(ps: Ven Punnadhammo must surely possess some psychic foresight; in
starting/naming this thread as he did!)
Ananda
Evelyn Ruut <mama...@ulster.net> wrote
> Regards,
> Evelyn
The compliment should go to the Buddha and all the monks who memorised the
dharma through the ages so that those with little dust in their eyes will be
enlightened. Sadhu! Sadhu! Sadhu!
Ananda
sphuratta <sah...@so.spam.me> wrote
> Mebbe it is time for this thread to face the guillotine?
>
> (ps: Ven Punnadhammo must surely possess some psychic foresight; in
> starting/naming this thread as he did!)
You will be surprised that this is never enough for Togu. You should read
the threads about monks/tibetan lamas eating meat. He kept repeating his
irritating writings over and over again.
sphuratta
monks eat meat?
Thus spake Ananda:
Ananda
sphuratta <sah...@so.spam.me> wrote
> monks eat meat?
That was a long story. In short, Buddha allows monks eat whatever food is
given including meat. So two traditions that still follow this tradition are
Theravada and Varjayana. Mahayana has long abandon this tradition as they
are self sufficient in food at the monastery.
Namdrol
>
> monks eat meat?
Tibetan monks and Theravadin monks eat meat. Chinese monks are usually
strict vegatarians because there are some Mahayana sutras that contain very
stern admonishments concerning the consumption of meat.
Namdrol
sphuratta
> Tibetan monks and Theravadin monks eat meat. Chinese monks are usually
> strict vegatarians because there are some Mahayana sutras that contain
very
> stern admonishments concerning the consumption of meat.
That is the way it should be, imho. On a very practical level, for the
fledgling meditator meat-eating is inconducive for his attainment of the
states of samadhi. The greatest yogis have all warned that animals cower in
fear upon their slaughter, and that this feeling of fear is retained in
their flesh. A meditator who consumes too much animal flesh assimilates
these bad vibes into his subtle bodies, and that has a very detrimental
effect on his meditation. Only the best and most strong-willed of
renunciates can attain high states of samadhi while on a meat-based diet.
Namdrol
On the other hand, eaten with compassion, meat-eating provides a good cause
for the animal to be consumed to attain a better rebirth. This is why
Vajrayana has many techniques for transforming activities into causes for
enligtenment.
Namdrol
Pyrrho
news:u2C57.14$Sp3.357@burlma1-snr2...
> On the other hand, eaten with compassion, meat-eating provides a good
cause
> for the animal to be consumed to attain a better rebirth. This is why
> Vajrayana has many techniques for transforming activities into causes for
> enligtenment.
>
> Namdrol
I have nothing against meat eating. People are free to eat whatever they
please. But it is absurd to claim that eating meat is an act of compassion
towards animals. It is not as if the animal expressed a desire to "attain a
better rebirth". If one feels like eating meat, fine. But it is dishonest to
call this "compassionate".
Shiva
Ananda
relevant to this discussion. So here is it again.
Dhamma Recollected:
I am originally from Bangkok, and was ordained into the monkhood in Bangkok,
and when I became interested in the study and practice of the Dhamma I chose
to do this at the Nong Pa Pong Temple.
My initial experience there was one of annoyance and the feeling that
nothing ever went right. I always woke up in the morning in a bad mood since
wake-up time was 3 a.m. The early morning was devoted to chanting. We
chanted the pre-dawn away, being only partially awake. There were more
obstacles to what I had intended, which annoyed me even more. You chant the
morning away with mosquitoes drinking your blood.
A little later into the morning we file out to receive alms from those who
live so very far away. The other monks who were also there with the same
purpose of reaching an understanding of Dhamma have already returned from
the long trip when I realize that I still have a long way to go. Once we
reach the temple, instead of being able to settle down to a meal, we have to
wait for the food to be passed out by the monks responsible for the task.
The first few days, I was near starved before it was time to eat, and I was
not able to eat when the time came since I had not yet adjusted to Isarn or
Northeastern food. The food in this area was more primitive than the food
offered in the temples in Bangkok. When it occasionally rained, the road
became almost unbearable with mud and my robe was soaked and stuck to me.
The rice in the alms bowl, which was usually sticky rice, fell apart from
being wet and got mixed in with the other food items in the bowl. When you
ate you had to eat them in that mixed state. I wondered why the Lord Buddha
did not design the alms bowl with sections inside so that the food could be
kept separate. All I could do was to use a few bananas as a partition inside
the bowl to separate the food.
The food itself was hard to bring myself to eat because Isarn people eat
everything, including lizards, crickets, and other small types of insect.
When a small piece of pickled and fermented fish, called "Pla-ra", a common
Isarn food, was put in my bowl, instead of being grateful for receiving alms
from people who themselves had hardly anything to eat but were generous
enough to give some away, I became angry and annoyed because what I was
given was not to my liking. This temple had a rule for eating only once a
day, so when I became nearly starved and truly hungry I would succumb to
eating a grilled frog with great effort trying not to think about what I was
eating.
When we returned to the temple we would find ourselves surrounded by old and
worn cubicles we call our residence, situated in an old and worn building,
furnished with simple and equally worn mats and pillows. Nothing was
pleasant to the eyes and mind, and all the resentment and frustration was
building up inside me unconsciously. I only pushed on and tolerated what was
happening because I was too proud to accept that the foreign monks, the
"Phra Farang", could outdo me. If they can stand the conditions so can I, I
told myself.
One day I asked a monk friend if he knew of any medicine one could take to
build up an appetite for food, or if he knew of any medicine for aches and
pains that I could use when my back suffered from sitting up and doing all
those chants and rituals. He advised me to ask an old blind white-clad
monastery apprentice. The old man told me that there was indeed such
medicine. "But you have to make it yourself," he said. "It's your own
urine." He instructed me to use only "the middle" of the urine stream and
leave out "the head" and "the tail". Desperation drove me to follow his
instructions and I grimaced after swallowing the first mouthful out of
disgust and imagination. Surprisingly, things became better.
This spiritual sickness of mind did not pass the keen and observing eyes of
our abbot. He found out about my search for the miracle cure to my plight
from the blind old apprentice, and one day he gave us a sermon, which went
as follows.
"Once there was a dog. Its head had a wound. Wherever it sat or lay, the
gnats and flies were always bothering it. When they bothered him he barked
and whined and walked to a new location to lie down. The flies and gnats
followed and the dog became very annoyed. It started to snap and bite at the
swarm of insects. The insects flew away, only to come back shortly to hover
over the wound on the dog's head. The dog whined and cried pitifully with
unhappiness."
At this point I felt that it was so true. I knew that if I left the monkhood
I would be too ashamed and if I stayed in I couldn't live up to the others.
I was in torture and was beaten by the situation. The abbot or "Luang Poh"
continued and said, "If the dog cures itself of the wound on the head, it
would not have to be bothered by those annoying insects. It should not
direct all its grievances at other things. It should not put the blame on
the place to stay, the food, the medication, the acquaintances, or the
distance of the walk. It should consider correcting itself and its own
mind." I knew for sure then that it was to me that he was directing his
preaching. How did he know, I wondered? He continued his sermon.
"During the years when the Lord Buddha was alive, he told a story of a dog
with mange. When it stayed in a cave it thought that the cave was
uncomfortable and the dog itched all over. It moved to a forest and still it
itched and was uncomfortable. It was never comfortable no matter where it
went. This is because what was causing the itching was its skin condition,
not the place it stayed." Being a monk is the same, he said.
"We should train ourselves to have a calm and contented mind. Train
ourselves to be easily fed and cared for, perceive things in their true
state, and be diligent in staying with this training of oneself.
Self-teaching is not an easy task and no one knows things from birth. All
things must be learned and practised. Initiate Dhamma into one's mind first
and things will gradually improve. The first trials will be difficult, but
do not be negligent. Keep trying and be diligent. Do not whine and cry like
the dog with mange or with the wound like in the story. It is most
embarrassing to be someone who is practising austerity and penance but tries
to put the blame on external things. We must find the reason or cause in
order to overcome obstacles. If the dog's head did not have a wound would
the gnats bother it so much?"
Do consider yourself. What are our precepts and how are we following them?
How is our meditation developing? If the mosquitoes bite, we must try to
endure. Why can the others do it, and we can't? Surely, the others are also
bitten. Try to get past the first mosquito bite, then work on the others. Do
not fret that you will get malaria from the mosquitoes, and if you do get
malaria then go to a doctor. If you can't go to a doctor, then there are
herbal medicines for you to take. The monks who have succeeded in a certain
level of meditation do not get malaria. You are not yet meditation monks.
Being a monk will definitely bring you to confront certain barriers and
misgivings as being a layman will show you certain barriers and
difficulties. Some say their legs will fall off from the lengthy meditation
sessions. We must tell ourselves, if they're going to fall off, let them.
Tell yourself it is only a sensation, a vedana, and we must overcome it. We
are used to being spoiled and follow our own wants but we must try to go
against the urge, and that requires a lot of effort. What you are
experiencing now is nothing compared to when you would leave the temple and
engage in Austere Practices where you will encounter the elements.
When you are out in the storms and wind, you will have to deal with the wet
and cold. Dry your robes when they become wet. Hunger can always be replaced
with being full. Dukkha or unhappiness must be replaced with not being
unhappy, turmoil must be replaced by tranquillity and murky water can be
made clear and clean. Things must be subject to trial and corrections to
improve. If you do not try to do it you will never know, if you don't look
you will not see. If you don't try it the first time you never learn, and if
you do not let yourself go through the trial and error process, how will you
know you can succeed? Perseverance and more perseverance is the key to
overcoming obstacles. Be persistent and you will get used to it.
The villagers have to walk far to reach their fields to work and farm their
land. We monks are merely asking for food from them so why can't we stand
it? We step on dirty and unwanted things on our trips to accept alms, but
what of it? Dirty feet can always be washed. No one has died from dirty
feet, I'm sure. Some monks walk each step in agony over their
inconveniences, not thinking that the other monks are experiencing the same
discomforts.
Food consumption is also another matter that we must adjust ourselves to.
Keep trying those strange foods and you will gradually be able to get used
to it. If you really can't eat it, then die of starvation. When you are
hungry enough, you will surely eat. We have made up these conditions about
food and become used to the way it should be or taste, and it must be
overcome. Try starving yourself for three days and see if you can eat the
strange food you've always refused.
Have you ever considered how difficult it must have been for the monks in
the time of the Lord Buddha, surviving on dried rice and vegetable juice?
There is a saying, "Live and eat low but behave highly", which is better
than "Eat and live high but have the lowest of behaviour". This is like
those who live in riches, but cheat people around them.
Actually, if the mind is not in the right state, nothing you eat will taste
good. And no matter how tasty the food is, a troubled mind will not be able
to recognize it. Please give consideration to what is actually causing the
situation. Is it one's mind or the outside elements? Look into and try to
correct one's mind, not the exterior. The outside elements cannot all be
corrected because as soon as one is dealt with, another will follow. This is
the nature of life. Hardship has one good point and that is it forces us to
keep alert and be careful of our ways. It is also the comfort of things that
may hurt us when we let down our guard. On our walks or wanderings,
practising the Austere Practices, hardships keep us alert to the dangers
that can befall us, such as snake bites or harm from other animals. When we
live in the comforts of a comfortable residence there lurks a chance of
being tried by kilesas or cravings.
Look at what is happening to the people in the cities. All the senses are
being pampered with comfort. They are rolling in kilesas and demerit,
demerit that will take several lives and rebirths to cleanse. What we are
trying to achieve in our practice now is to purge ourselves of these things.
Even our eating habits have to be changed and reformed. Eat noiselessly,
keep each bite or spoonful to an adequate portion for the mouth; scraping
one's alms bowl with the spoon is considered rude, and extending one's lips
to receive the food from the spoon is ugly. Food should be delicately
spooned into the mouth; don't let any rice spill on the outside of the alms
bowl. We must train ourselves in these new things.
The Lord Buddha laid down the rules in explicit and detailed form and it is
our duty to reform ourselves to the rules with restraint and with composed
mindfulness. We are like new recruits in an army and training is never easy.
This is because Dhamma has not yet been fully received and settled into our
mind. So be diligent in your practice until the Dhamma has been attained.
Things will become easier, maybe to the point of enjoyment. Some monks have
received such joy in the practice of Dhamma that they decline to go home to
visit when their turn comes. So we must study and train ourselves, and if
all does not go as well as planned or something is missing it is normal and
should not be considered a shortcoming.
When I first arrived at Nong Pah Phong temple, things were much worse. A
day's offering often consisted of only rice and salt, with a small amount of
sugar. If we got a fish, the fish was divided among 4 or 5 monks, an orange
usually had to be sectioned into 3 portions, and a banana was cut up into 4
or 5 sections. Never has it been as abundant as nowadays. As it turned out,
we were better off then than we are now with all these conveniences. We
worked together as a team and never tried to get out of doing the chores. We
helped each other in everything, from cleaning to hauling water from the
well. We were always generous and kind to one another. Poverty made us stick
together.
Nowadays with the abundance of things, it seems to have gotten worse. We now
have soda beverages set out for us by the case. Back then things like that
were almost non-existent. Many years had passed from the time I first
arrived before a bottle of Pepsi Cola turned up at this temple. But today
things have changed considerably. Sometimes the possession of certain items
creates a problem of who gets what and who gets which portions.
Consumption of food must be done with awareness and consciousness. Do not
consume and become the victim of the baiting kilesa. Even the afternoon
juice we drink can become a bait, if we carelessly consume it. We drink the
liquid in order to maintain our body's functions and to create enough energy
to pull through the meditation and the meditative walk. We do not drink to
drown ourselves while meditating. Remember the saying, "Acquisition and
honoured hospitality kill a fool." A fool here is a person who has not the
knowledge or one who is spiritually defective.
We must be aware that what is being given to us is only to help us survive,
like a lump of phlegm or spit. We are eating the leftovers spared to us to
help us maintain ourselves, so do not be too delighted and think that it is
an earthly gain. The main purpose of our practice here is to achieve wisdom
and insight in our minds, not to be faced with distraction and want. We are
not monks in order to receive cars and televisions, or to fight over fame or
items of honour. It has happened that some fighting over these things was
resolved through bullets. This is because there was lack of discernment and
reasoning. If pondered, we would see that what we have in our possession now
is mostly worthless to our cause and we would be like a crazy person if we
try to carry it all. We carry it around and at the end we still have to
discard it. The ones who have reached the ultimate understanding will let go
and leave things be.
The Lord Buddha once said, "Let all look at this beautiful earth as a
worldly vehicle which fools are delighted in and are intoxicated with. The
ones who know different will not become involved." My situation was that
when I was notified that I would receive the honour of being titled "Chao
Khun" and was asked to fill in a form of my personal history, I wrote: "When
it rains, there's no thunder. When there is thunder, there's no rain.
Sometimes it rains when there's thunder, and sometimes it thunders when it
rains." So they didn't need the biography of me anymore. They found it from
somewhere else.
After I was given the title, one day I was going somewhere for a function
with a congregation member who owned a pick-up truck. The front passenger
was a woman so I got up on the back of the pick-up truck instead. I was
asked by some villagers why I was riding in a pick-up truck now that I was a
"Chao Khun". I thought to myself, "Why can't I?" The title is only a name
and the symbol of that title is embossed on the fan insignia. Rank is only
granted and is a made up thing. They want to put us to work, that is why
they give us the title and the insignia.
Invitations have also increased with the increase of rank. I sometimes have
to say no to attending some of the functions. I declined appearing on
television a few times. I see it this way. If they want Dhamma, they must
come to get Dhamma. It is like going to a good restaurant. If the food is
good, people will find a way to go there no matter where or how far it is. I
conduct myself like a raven. When you get close to a raven, it flies away,
and sits perching again to draw you closer. If you pursue it, it will again
retreat, even prancing and preening to draw attention. I am like that. I
tend to draw and run, but not without kindness or sympathy. But again,
sympathetic thoughts must be given with mindfulness and knowledge of one's
mind. Otherwise we ourselves are the ones who will become troubled.
For example, sometimes a monk is sent to stay with me and I willingly accept
the responsibility. If they can stand it and wish to continue, they can. If
they want to leave, then I do not hold them back. Anything I did before
receiving the rank, I still do now. Again, honour and rank are only made up
and are not real. It is like when a king finds and takes a white elephant
from the forest to add to his collection of royal belongings. But the
elephant came from the forest and prefers the forest and probably thought
nothing of all the decorations and baubles used to decorate it. The white
patches on its body is the only thing that caused it to leave the forest to
become a decoration of a human being.
Chinese nobleman Lao Tzu was fishing one day when the Emperor sent an
invitation for him to become one of his royal consultants at his palace.
Nobleman Lao Tzu told a story about a turtle to the royal consultant who
delivered the invitation. The story goes as follows. A turtle was swimming
and enjoying itself in a pond when it was captured and was told that it was
not just an ordinary turtle, but was a Bodhisatta turtle or a Buddha-to-be.
It became a magic turtle, was wrapped up in red cloth, and put on a stand to
be visited and revered by all.
Lao Tzu asked that royal consultant that if he were the turtle, which would
he prefer? Would he prefer being in the mud and slush of the pond or in a
wrap on top of a stand? The royal consultant said he would prefer remaining
in the pond. So Lao Tzu asked the king's royal consultant to inform his
royal highness that he himself was like that turtle also.
Now this is how I feel too. I feel more comfortable staying with all of you
here at this monastery. I cannot stay in the city, so I stay here and act
with the habit of a raven. I thank everyone for attending, and now it is
time to retire and get some rest.
Translated from the Thai by Ada Guntamala
Pyrrho <Pyrrho...@mailandnews.com> wrote <snip>
Namdrol
"Pyrrho" <Pyrrho...@mailandnews.com> wrote in message
news:trC57.1506$P04....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
You've missed the point. Anything can be transformed by compassion. Even
hardheadedness.
Namdrol
Pyrrho
> > I have nothing against meat eating. People are free to eat whatever they
> > please. But it is absurd to claim that eating meat is an act of
compassion
> > towards animals. It is not as if the animal expressed a desire to
"attain a
> > better rebirth". If one feels like eating meat, fine. But it is
dishonest
> > to call this "compassionate".
>
>
> You've missed the point. Anything can be transformed by compassion. Even
> hardheadedness.
>
> Namdrol
My point was about throwing compassion at someone or something that never
asked for it in the first place. Why not just leave things the way they are
and be compassionate toward those who come seeking it?
Shiva
Evelyn Ruut
"Ananda" <chi...@cyberway.com.sg> wrote in message
news:9j6kah$34g$1...@dahlia.singnet.com.sg...
For years he has posted on that stuff. That is why I complimented him for
the recent posting. Positive attitude instead of negative....
Regards,
Evelyn
Evelyn Ruut
> "Namdrol" <malcolm.smith@.genuity.com> wrote in message
> > You've missed the point. Anything can be transformed by compassion. Even
> > hardheadedness.
> >
> > Namdrol
>
> My point was about throwing compassion at someone or something that never
> asked for it in the first place. Why not just leave things the way they
are
> and be compassionate toward those who come seeking it?
>
> Shiva
Dear Shiva,
Because often those who appear not to need compassion at all, are those who
need it the most. Often, for those who come seeking your compassion,
denial of it is actually more compassionate for them.
Best Regards,
Evelyn
seetoh
>> My point was about throwing compassion at someone or something that never
>> asked for it in the first place. Why not just leave things the way
>> they are and be compassionate toward those who come seeking it?
>>
>> Shiva
>
>
>Because often those who appear not to need compassion at all, are those who
>need it the most. Often, for those who come seeking your compassion,
>denial of it is actually more compassionate for them.
O dear. Based on Evelyn's reasoning, she
should kill as many animals as she can,
since they do not ask to be killed.
Great Buddhist compassion for all those
little critters that you want to eat.
Unless, of course, if YOU are the one
she wants to eat. Then it is not compassion.
It is murder most foul.
seetoh
Let's transform murder by compassion,
but don't stick your knife into my body.
Jonathan
Evelyn Ruut <mama...@ulster.net> wrote
> "Pyrrho" <Pyrrho...@mailandnews.com> wrote
> > "Namdrol" <malcolm.smith@.genuity.com> wrote
>
> > > You've missed the point. Anything can be transformed by compassion.
Even
> > > hardheadedness.
> >
never
> > asked for it in the first place. Why not just leave things the way they
> are
> > and be compassionate toward those who come seeking it?
> Because often those who appear not to need compassion at all, are those
who
> need it the most. Often, for those who come seeking your compassion,
> denial of it is actually more compassionate for them.
Evelyn - Which category do the meat-animals come into ? :) (of Namdrol's
original <<On the other hand, eaten with compassion, meat-eating provides a
good cause for the animal to be consumed to attain a better rebirth.<<)
Jonathan
seetoh
Yeah, give seetoh a lollipop
and he'll keep the peace....
Oh my God. My stomach is all cramped up.
seetoh
Alvis
seetoh <waike...@yahoo.com> wrote
> Oh my God. My stomach is all cramped up.
Mummy, please take a capsule of Po Chai Chee pills for your tummy upset. It
is proven for generation to cure tummy upset and cramps. Take care mummy
tada.
Thos638
>
Of course, vegetarianism is not a Buddhist concept. The Vinaya sanctions the
eating of meat and lists the conditions which must be met, i.e. a monk may,
indeed must eat a chicken that is offered provided the chicken was not killed
specifically for that purpose. The Buddha ordered suckling pig for his final
meal.
thos
Thos638
>given including meat. So two traditions that still follow this tradition are
>Theravada and Varjayana. Mahayana has long abandon this tradition as they
>are self sufficient in food at the monastery.
>
the Hindu practice of vegetarianism. It was clearly a case of
one-ups-man-ship.
thos
Thos638
>fledgling meditator meat-eating is inconducive for his attainment of the
>states of samadhi. The greatest yogis have all warned that animals cower in
>fear upon their slaughter, and that this feeling of fear is retained in
>their flesh. A meditator who consumes too much animal flesh assimilates
>these bad vibes into his subtle bodies, and that has a very detrimental
>effect on his meditation. Only the best and most strong-willed of
>renunciates can attain high states of samadhi while on a meat-based diet.
>
spirit of the food we eat affects our state of mind?
thos
Thos638
>please. But it is absurd to claim that eating meat is an act of compassion
>towards animals. It is not as if the animal expressed a desire to "attain a
>better rebirth". If one feels like eating meat, fine. But it is dishonest to
>call this "compassionate".
>
>Shiva
>
The foundation of the mendicant system in Buddhism is to sacrifice one's own
preference to allow others to earn merit. There is a story about a monk who
ate the thumb of a leper because it was in his alms bowl.
thos
sphuratta
That bit of "hocus-pocus" is merely my brief, humble summary from two very
scholarly tracts discussing the effects of vegetarianism and meat-eating on
one's meditation practice and one's subtle body (Dharmakaya to you). The
first is written by the foremost Hindu teacher/yogi of modern times, and the
second was written by a successor of Ch'an patriarch Hsu-Yun; a very
widely-respected Zen master. At many points, these two tracts were in
complete agreement with each other on the esoteric effects of an unsuitable
diet on one's attempts to attain the various states of samadhi. My own
practice on (and rebellion against) their teachings suggested that there was
more than a grain of hard truth to these two masters' advice. Anyone can
verify this for him/herself if he/she spent more time cultivating the states
of samadhi, and less time peppering buddhist ngs with trigger-happy
comments.
Good day to you, you American. :-}
seetoh
Thank you son, but I guess you must be somewhat confused.
Chai Chee is a housing estate next to Bedok,
and is somewhat inedible.
OTOH, Po Chai Yun can be swallowed easily,
with a little water or fruit juice.
Nonetheless, your concern is much appreciated.
seetoh
seetoh
> >monks eat meat?
> Of course, vegetarianism is not a Buddhist concept.
Then what is the purpose of the first precept
if you can kill sentient beings and eat them?
> The Vinaya sanctions the eating of meat and
> lists the conditions which must be met,
> i.e. a monk may, indeed must eat a chicken
> that is offered provided the chicken was not
> killed specifically for that purpose.
If the food is bought specifically to feed
the monk, and is not a left-over, then isn't
that a breach of the Vinaya rules?
> The Buddha ordered suckling pig for his final
> meal.
Evidence please.
seetoh
seetoh
I'm surprised that compassion that leads
one to refrain from killing sentient beings
for food is considered oneupmanship.
Is that the reason why Buddhists should
kill sentient beings for food?
seetoh
seetoh
You don't need stories of the past
to see how compassionate Buddhist
monks have become, when they like
the taste of flesh.
In a land of plenty, where they
can choose to be vegetarian, and
when they follow the medicant system
no more, what do you think they eat?
The flesh of other sentient beings,
where these beings have to be specifically
killed for human consumption.
How compassionate of these monks to choose to eat other sentient beings.
How compassionate can that be?
seetoh
seetoh
More than affecting our state of mind,
it affects the state of mind of those
sentient beings that are slaughtered
for monks to eat.
seetoh
Animals fear death, just like you and I.
seetoh
> I have posted this in reply regarding eating and I think it is still
> relevant to this discussion. So here is it again.
>
> We must be aware that what is being given to us is only to help us survive,
> like a lump of phlegm or spit. We are eating the leftovers spared to us to
> help us maintain ourselves, so do not be too delighted and think that it is
> an earthly gain.
Many Buddhist monks are no longer medicant monks,
so they do not eat leftovers. They eat food that
has been specifically bought for them. If they
want to eat meat, they will get to eat meat
from animals that were specifically killed for
human consumption.
In other words, they get to eat animals that
were specifically killed for them. This is
a clear violation of the Vinaya rules.
> The main purpose of our practice here is to
> achieve wisdom and insight in our minds, not
> to be faced with distraction and want.
Wanting to eat meat is probably a distraction
for Buddhist monks, when they can easily ask
for a vegetarian meal.
> <snipped> The ones who have reached the ultimate
> understanding will let go and leave things be.
Quite true. Leave the animals alone.
Don't kill and eat them.
> The Lord Buddha once said, "Let all look at this beautiful earth as a
> worldly vehicle which fools are delighted in and are intoxicated with. The
> ones who know different will not become involved."
Being involved in the butchering of
sentient beings is not what Buddhist
monks should do, yet meat-eating in
the modern context is exactly that.
seetoh
Evelyn Ruut
"seetoh" <waike...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:20010719210918.252$0...@news.newsreader.com...
We are speaking of humans, not animals, seetoh. Animals always have my
utmost compassion. Sheesh! Just when I thought you finally got wise, you
go back to your negative blood dripping posts.
Evelyn
Pyrrho
news:20010720011922...@ng-ca1.aol.com...
> On the contrary, Shiva, it is indeed compassionate to accept what is
given.
> The foundation of the mendicant system in Buddhism is to sacrifice one's
own
> preference to allow others to earn merit. There is a story about a monk
who
> ate the thumb of a leper because it was in his alms bowl.
>
> thos
I completely accept the idea of being willing to eat whatever one is given.
What I have trouble with is the idea that eating an animal is an act of
compassion toward it, which was what Namdrol was trying to say.
Shiva
Jonathan
Thos638 <tho...@aol.com> wrote
> >People are free to eat whatever they
> >please. But it is absurd to claim that eating meat is an act of
compassion
> >towards animals. It is not as if the animal expressed a desire to "attain
a
> >better rebirth". If one feels like eating meat, fine. But it is dishonest
to
> >call this "compassionate".
> >
> On the contrary, Shiva, it is indeed compassionate to accept what is
given.
> The foundation of the mendicant system in Buddhism is to sacrifice one's
own
> preference to allow others to earn merit. There is a story about a monk
who
> ate the thumb of a leper because it was in his alms bowl.
Theravad - It might be "compassionate" to "accept what is given" but Shiva
was answering Namdrol's original <<On the other hand, eaten with compassion,
meat-eating provides a good cause for the animal to be consumed to attain a
better rebirth.<<
Jonathan
Evelyn Ruut
"Jonathan" <grf...@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:tlf1ubi...@corp.supernews.co.uk...
My view is a lot simpler than that. I certainly don't see meat eating as a
ticket to higher rebirth for the animal, although the motivation generated
by that view is a kinder and more compassionate one than say, to believe
that animals all "belong" to us and we should eat them if we feel like it,
would be, as in the Judeo/Xtian attitude of man having complete dominion
over the life and death of living beings.
We cannot survive without eating, and we are creatures that live by chewing
up other living beings, be they animal or vegetable.
I think the answer is to have respect for living beings. Not to be
wasteful or casual about it. Knowing that when you eat to live, that many
beings lost their lives so that you could continue living. Whether through
the pesticide that killed the insects as the plants grew, or the plow that
chopped up many little mousies homes or disturbed the homes of creatures
that live in the soil.
The chicken that spent its life making eggs for your breakfast, that is now
cooking in the pot of soup on your stove, these and many other living beings
were sacrificed so that you could live. Make your life worthy of these
losses, and be respectful of them.
Do not kill indiscriminately, and don't waste food that caused so many to
die so you could live. Pray for them and for their higher rebirth, not so
much because it helps that to really happen, although it actually may, but
more to make you conscious and aware of the reality of the fact that for you
to live, other beings have died.
A Tibetan woman friend of mine once told me that the reason Tibetans prefer
to eat beef rather than say, chicken or fish, is the loss of life factor.
If one cow dies, many many people are fed. If you eat say, a plate of
shrimp, many lives have been lost and only one person has been nurtured.
If you feel good eating vegetarian food, it is convenient and possible to do
so, and you are not needful of meat, then even better.
Seetoh has the right idea, but he tends to be a bit of a fanatic.
Regards,
Evelyn
Evelyn Ruut
Bathroom is just down the hall, Seetoh. Nothing wrong with you that a good
dump wouldn't straighten out.
Evelyn Ruut
Dear Shiva,
I too disagree with that, but I think it was an oversimplification of the
view of eating meat by Tibetans. Yes, they do say prayers for a higher
rebirth of food animals, but that doesn't make it "right" to kill. Namdrol
should have put more time into that post because he is giving the wrong
attitude in it. Remember that Tibet is a country with an extremely limited
agriculture, and meat eating is more of a necessity there in order to be
properly nourished. We live in a country with a great deal of agricultural
variety, and shipping brings us a massive variety of foods even from out of
season. We really don't have that excuse in the USA. Meat eating here,
is more a habit than a nutritional necessity.
Best Regards,
Evelyn
sphuratta
> > >That is why I complimented him for
> > >the recent posting. Positive attitude instead of negative....
> >
> > Yeah, give seetoh a lollipop
> > and he'll keep the peace....
> >
> > Oh my God. My stomach is all cramped up.
> >
> > seetoh
>
>
> Bathroom is just down the hall, Seetoh. Nothing wrong with you that a
good
> dump wouldn't straighten out.
Oh my! Evelyn, if you ever start your own religious center don't count on me
turning up. You run too tight a ship. LOL.
sphuratta
> given.
> > What I have trouble with is the idea that eating an animal is an act of
> > compassion toward it, which was what Namdrol was trying to say.
> >
> > Shiva
>
>
> Dear Shiva,
>
> I too disagree with that, but I think it was an oversimplification of the
> view of eating meat by Tibetans. Yes, they do say prayers for a higher
> rebirth of food animals, but that doesn't make it "right" to kill.
Namdrol
> should have put more time into that post because he is giving the wrong
> attitude in it. Remember that Tibet is a country with an extremely
limited
> agriculture, and meat eating is more of a necessity there in order to be
> properly nourished. We live in a country with a great deal of
agricultural
> variety, and shipping brings us a massive variety of foods even from out
of
> season. We really don't have that excuse in the USA. Meat eating here,
> is more a habit than a nutritional necessity.
I would be interested to know whether the exiled Tibetan monks now living
and teaching in Dharma centers in America+ have taken to vegetarianism or
not. There should be no more excuse for monkish meat-eating whilst in the
West, yes?
+ and elsewhere in the West where a vegetarian lifestyle can be supported
Pyrrho
news:9j9emp$ek1$1...@coco.singnet.com.sg...
> I would be interested to know whether the exiled Tibetan monks now living
> and teaching in Dharma centers in America+ have taken to vegetarianism or
> not. There should be no more excuse for monkish meat-eating whilst in the
> West, yes?
>
> + and elsewhere in the West where a vegetarian lifestyle can be supported
And why should they need any excuses? They eat what they eat.
Shiva
sphuratta
> And why should they need any excuses? They eat what they eat.
Which is...?
Jonathan
Evelyn Ruut <mama...@ulster.net> wrote
> "Jonathan" <grf...@lineone.net> wrote
> > Evelyn Ruut <mama...@ulster.net> wrote
> > > "Pyrrho" <Pyrrho...@mailandnews.com> wrote
> > > > "Namdrol" <malcolm.smith@.genuity.com> wrote
> > >
> > > > > You've missed the point. Anything can be transformed by
compassion.
> > Even
> > > > > hardheadedness.
> > > >
> > > > My point was about throwing compassion at someone or something that
> > never
> > > > asked for it in the first place. Why not just leave things the way
> they
> > > are
> > > > and be compassionate toward those who come seeking it?
> >
> > > Because often those who appear not to need compassion at all, are
those
> > who
> > > need it the most. Often, for those who come seeking your compassion,
> > > denial of it is actually more compassionate for them.
> >
> > Evelyn - Which category do the meat-animals come into ? :) (of Namdrol's
> > original <<On the other hand, eaten with compassion, meat-eating
provides
> a
> > good cause for the animal to be consumed to attain a better rebirth.<<)
>
a
> ticket to higher rebirth for the animal, although the motivation generated
> by that view is a kinder and more compassionate one than say, to believe
> that animals all "belong" to us and we should eat them if we feel like it,
> would be, as in the Judeo/Xtian attitude of man having complete dominion
> over the life and death of living beings.
Evelyn - Just to save you from getting a slapping from your son - The Judaic
creation story is like Kipling's 'Just So' stories - a 'story' to account
for the then known facts - which include the fact that, within certain
limits, we *do* have complete dominion over the life and death of living
beings. In these bald factual terms they *do* "belong" to us. The Torah
doesn't say about all these living things that "we should eat them if we
feel like it" - quite the reverse - it's infinitely fastidious in giving out
lists of what can and what should not be eaten (generally avoiding
carnivorous and omnivorous air, land and sea creatures and sticking to
herbivores). Moreove, the means of killing was also strictly controlled and
probably more humane than any of the other methods of the time (even if it
isn't now) and both the killing and eating involved a 'sacramental' aspect.
The Buddhist lands are not exactly renowned for their animal welfare - with
the demand for whale meat, rhinocerous horn, ivory, tiger parts, repeated
bile removal from live bears, the trussing of live dogs, still wriggling
fish etc.
I agree with most of that although it only started with Pyrrho disputing
Namdrol's original statement and Pyrrho was right (or Namdrol was wrong - as
you conceed in your post to Pyrrho).
Jonathan
Evelyn Ruut
Not a chance of me running a religious center. Been there, done that. I
hate the snakepit of dharma center politics. BTW, what does that have to
do with Seetoh's tummy ache?
;-)
Regards,
Ev
Evelyn Ruut
> Thus spake Pyrrho:
> > And why should they need any excuses? They eat what they eat.
>
> Which is...?
Why should what they eat be of interest to anyone but themselves and their
medical group?
Mike Austin
<mama...@ulster.net> writes
>
>Not a chance of me running a religious center. Been there, done that. I
>hate the snakepit of dharma center politics.
Hi Evelyn,
Actually, if you look carefully, they are coiled rope pits!
Metta
Mike Austin
Evelyn Ruut
"Mike Austin" <mi...@lamrim.org.uk> wrote in message
news:BuQ8CzAN...@clara.net...
LOL! Very witty, Mike....
Best Regards,
Ev
Thos638
>rebirth of food animals, but that doesn't make it "right" to kill.
This discussion has nothing to do with killing which is clearly wrong for
almost all Buddhists but it has to do only with eating. If Americans suddenly
changed their eating habits, millions of cattle would be doomed to a long, slow
death of starvation. I think this is a matter of individual choice and has
nothing to do with compassion. People have every right to be vegetarians but
do they have the right to impose this Hindu view on others in the name of
compassion?
If eating meat was wrong, surely the Buddha would have forbidden it.
thos
Ananda
sphuratta <sah...@so.spam.me>
> I would be interested to know whether the exiled Tibetan monks now living
> and teaching in Dharma centers in America+ have taken to vegetarianism or
> not. There should be no more excuse for monkish meat-eating whilst in the
> West, yes?
>
> + and elsewhere in the West where a vegetarian lifestyle can be supported
Here is an interview conducted in Singapore regarding vegetarian in TB which
I quoted partially for your information.
HE Kyabje Lati Rinpoche is one of HH the Dalai Lama's spiritual advisers and
the Root Guru of Trijang Rinpoche Yangsi- Trijang Rinpoche is the present
Dalai Lama's junior tutor. This interview was conducted by Kunga Nyima on 26
December 2000 at Sakyamuni Dharma Centre, Singapore.
Vegetarianism in Buddhist Monasteries
Q: In recent years, we heard that there are plans to convert the diet of the
three great Gelugpa monasteries into full vegetarianism. What is Rinpoche's
view of this plan and for that matter, for Buddhist monasteries in general,
to become full vegetarian?
A: I am happy the monastic authorities want to make this huge change. That
is really appreciable. I really support this type of change coming up.
Q:Why does Rinpoche feel that it is better to be vegetarian?
A:If the number of people who consume meat is reduced, it then automatically
reduces the number of people who kill the animals to meet the demand. In
this way, by becoming vegetarian, we contribute, to some extend, the
reduction in the number of animals killed.
Q:Why is it then in old Tibet that the monasteries are rarely fully
vegetarian?
A:In Tibet, there are many people who are strict vegetarian. Even in the big
monasteries where there are huge gatherings of monks, they never eat
non-vegetarian food. In the monk's individual quarters, though, there might
be some monks who eat meat as food.
Vegetarianism is something not very new in Tibetan society. Generally, in
the old Tibetan society, most of the people try to avoid taking meat
specifically killed to feed individual person. This is evident in very level
of Tibetan society. Even in the scriptures of the Buddha, we have to avoid
taking such meat which is killed specially just to feed ourselves. The texts
prohibit us from taking this type of meat. That is the common way of
practice and instructions in the Buddha's teachings. Especially in the
Mahayana teachings when a person does intensive practice of Bodhicitta, they
are advised or prescribed to avoid taking meat.
Alvis
seetoh <waike...@yahoo.com> wrote
> I'm surprised that compassion that leads
> one to refrain from killing sentient beings
> for food is considered oneupmanship.
>
> Is that the reason why Buddhists should
> kill sentient beings for food?
>
> seetoh
You are just confusing compassion with self pity. So far all your writings
is filled with hatred, delusion and anger. Show us your compassion if you
have any. Buddha don't just preach compassion . He showed his compassion for
all sentient beings. What do you do for all sentient beings. Are you a
member of SPCA? Are you an active member of volunteers to feed and care for
the animals in the Singapore Zoo? Do you contribute money to the WWF? Show
us your compassion which you don't have big mouth.
Alvis
seetoh <waike...@yahoo.com> wrote
> Thank you son, but I guess you must be somewhat confused.
> Chai Chee is a housing estate next to Bedok,
> and is somewhat inedible.
> OTOH, Po Chai Yun can be swallowed easily,
> with a little water or fruit juice.
>
> Nonetheless, your concern is much appreciated.
>
> seetoh
Mummy is never wrong. Now fuck off
Alvis
seetoh <waike...@yahoo.com> wrote
> Evidence please.
Stupid. Just call 7-35-35-35 and they deliver it to your bloody house.
Thos638
>
The monks of my school do not choose to eat any thing inparticular but follow
the teachings of the Buddha to eat what they are given. I think it lacks
compassion to judge these monks harshly for following the Vinaya.
thos
Thos638
>one to refrain from killing sentient beings
>for food is considered oneupmanship.
>
Again, we are not talking about killing. I think few would disagree with your
statement; however, to become so obsessed with food that we strain at the gnat
but swallow the camel seems a little silly.
>Is that the reason why Buddhists should
>kill sentient beings for food?
>
and again, we are not talking about killing. I think there is no good reason
to kill other beings but it is an inescapable fact of life. Every day you kill
billions of beings. If you drive or ride, you kill many beings with your
windshield. The hypocrisy lies in deciding which creature must die and then
becoming holier than thou because you don't eat cows (the Buddha did).
The Buddha basically rejected the doctrine of Ahimsa because he saw the affect
it was having on the Jains who became extremely hypocritical in pretending not
to harm any other living being. It seems that the only honest course for those
who profess to practice Ahimsa is to starve to death like the ancient Jain
saints.
thos
Thos638
>if you can kill sentient beings and eat them?
Killing and eating are not the same thing.
>If the food is bought specifically to feed
>the monk, and is not a left-over, then isn't
>that a breach of the Vinaya rules?
>
In my opinion, it is. And you are correct in that this does happen.
>> The Buddha ordered suckling pig for his final
>> meal.
Lost my notes and references but i think it is in the Parinibbana Sutta. Ajahn
Punnadhammo, help please?
thos
sphuratta
> > The Buddha ordered suckling pig for his final
> > meal.
>
Yeah. I thought he had poisoned mushrooms?
(See? That's what you may get for being vegetarian! :o)
sphuratta
> > >
> > >Not a chance of me running a religious center. Been there, done that.
> I
> > >hate the snakepit of dharma center politics.
> >
> > Hi Evelyn,
> >
> > Actually, if you look carefully, they are coiled rope pits!
> >
> > Metta
> > Mike Austin
>
>
> LOL! Very witty, Mike....
I agree!
But, how is there politics at a dharma center? The few dharma centers and
ashrams I've known have been harmonious and compassionate environments.
Ananda
seetoh <waike...@yahoo.com> wrote
> Many Buddhist monks are no longer medicant monks,
> so they do not eat leftovers. They eat food that
> has been specifically bought for them. If they
> want to eat meat, they will get to eat meat
> from animals that were specifically killed for
> human consumption.
>
> In other words, they get to eat animals that
> were specifically killed for them. This is
> a clear violation of the Vinaya rules.
>
>
> Wanting to eat meat is probably a distraction
> for Buddhist monks, when they can easily ask
> for a vegetarian meal.
>
Just tell us how many times have you donated blood to the Singapore Blood
Bank ?
How many stray dogs or cats on the Singapore streets have you save from
stravation ?
How many old folk home have you visited in your life time to bring cheer to
them during New Year ?
Recently, some animal activists from other countries were here trying to
presuade Singaporean to eat less shark fins so that the killings at sea
could be reduced where is your stand?
If the answers are all NO or none , tell us how you define your compassion?
cupcake
Hilarious!....
i just read a news story where municipalities and
other law enforcement jurisdictions have decided
that it is cheaper for *them* to pay the bail for
prisoners, than it is to keep them in jail!
is this a case of the dog biting himself
in the butt? :)
is the "system" collapsing in on itself?
is this total "melt down", err what? :)
fo...@pipeline.com
Didn't you have to melt down as well?
>
>
cupcake
phfffftttt wrote:
>
> Didn't you have to melt down as well?
>
tell that to the dinosaurs! :)
cupcake
cupcake wrote:
just what in the hell do you think is going on in
The Great Cosmic Manifestation, phfffffttttt?
you naive little %#*#$*!
Dean Crabb
cupcake wrote:
In the same light, is our temporary happiness caused by the seeking of
things worth the cost of suffering? Maybe we should cash in and get out
of jail.
Dean
cupcake
Dean Crabb wrote:
well, if you would just learn to think and speak clearly, for
starters, perhaps i could understand you... -- go back,
and start over, in the 3rd grade, and i'll see you in the
next lifetime, perhaps, 'kay?
Dean Crabb
cupcake wrote:
What do you mean, go back??!! I'm still in 2nd grade! Give me a chance will
ya!
Dean
GeoWCherry
dont they have menu's where you come from?
hows the tofu today
freshly killed,
can i tell you about our specials
certainly
tofu jubalaya, new orleans style
tofu mexical, tofu burritos in a tofu shell and hot tofu sause
and chicken cassarole
is there any tofu in it
the chicken is always tofu sir
how bout goat curds with tofu
is that still there, we've gone lacto-intolerant
i'll have the strawberry tart
excellent choice,,,
o im sorry we're out of strawberry tart sir
okay just the vegipatti with fries
would you like tofu with that
but the vegipatti is tofu
but with tofu cheese?
o yes i'll have tofu with it
and for desset sir?
tofutti
and a vodka and wheat grass juice to start
who sez vegetarian monestaries have to be boring
</dar>
Tofu's not boring at all. Eat enough and you're joiin Ronald Reagan raking
leaves for fun. (The Secret Service supplies the leaves that the old Gipper
rakes.). But Ron junior said he couldn't see any change in his dad.
See the following: Enjoy
George
Would you like Alzheimer's disease with your fofu, sir. No, I think I'll take
the chicken, since I forgot to bring my Nicorette.
Brain Aging and Midlife Tofu Consumption
Lon R.White, MD, MPH, Helen Petrovitch, MD, G. Webster Ross, MD, Kamal Masaki,
MD, John Hardman, MD, James Nelson, MD, Daron Davis, MD, and William
Markesbery, MD
National Institute on Aging, NIH (L.W., formerly), the Pacific Health Research
Institute (L.W., H.P.), University of Hawaii at Manoa (L.W., H.P., G.W.R.,
K.M., J.H.), the Department of Veterans Affairs, Honolulu (L.W., G.W.R.),
Kuakini Medical Center, Honolulu (H.P., K.M.) Hawaii, Louisiana State
University (J.N.), Baton Rouge, Louisiana, and the University of Kentucky
(D.D.,W.M.), Lexington, Kentucky
Objective: To examine associations of midlife tofu consumption with brain
function and structural changes in late life.
Methods: The design utilized surviving participants of a longitudinal study
established in 1965 for research on heart disease, stroke, and cancer.
Information on consumption of selected foods was available from standardized
interviews conducted 1965-67 and 1971-74. A 4-level composite intake index
defined "low-low" consumption as fewer than two servings of tofu per week in
1965 and no tofu in the prior week in 1971. Men who reported 2 or more servings
per week at both interviews were defined as "high-high" consumers. Intermediate
or less consistent "low" and "high" consumption levels were also defined.
Cognitive functioning was tested at the 1991-1993 examination, when
participants were aged 71 to 93 years (n=3734). Brain atrophy was assessed
using neuroimage (n=574) and autopsy (n=290) information. Cognitive function
data were also analyzed for wives of a sample of study participants (n=502) who
had been living with the participants at the time of their dietary interviews.
Results: Poor cognitive test performance, enlargement of ventricles and low
brain weight were each significantly and independently associated with higher
midlife tofu consumption. A similar association of midlife tofu intake with
poor late life cognitive test scores was also observed among wives of cohort
members, using the husband's answers to food frequency questions as proxy for
the wife's consumption. Statistically significant associations were
consistently demonstrated in linear and logistic multivariate regression
models. Odds ratios comparing endpoints among "high-high" with "low-low"
consumers were mostly in the range of 1.6 to 2. 0.
Conclusions: In this population, higher midlife tofu consumption was
independently associated with indicators of cognitive impairment and brain
atrophy in late life.
cupcake
perfezzzer george uu chairee sez:
> Conclusions: In this population, higher midlife tofu consumption was
> independently associated with indicators of cognitive impairment and
> brain atrophy in late life.
Precisely! which is exactly the reason why *I* recommend,
to *all* of my students, that they eat a hearty diet of
veal, lobster, baby prawns, double whoppers, with cheese,
and, of course, lard-fried french fries (for the very highest
in savory sensation! and, thereby, heighten *awareness*
(...check that dar? :)
...oh, and, also, (following yer tip), i strongly recommend
smoking, at least, *two* packs of cigarettes a day, too,
to make sure everyone gets all the nicotine they need to
ward off the dread' alice-chalmers dizzies!
thanks george!
way'da go! :)
cupcake
cupcake wrote:
and! that they have sex, at least, 3 times a day, in
a 102 degree steam-room sauna (preferably with me :)
to help burn off all those nasty fat callories (cuz
we don't wanna see any pesky cardio problems raising
their ugly little heads, now, do we, now, huh? :)