LIARS: Bahai uhj
Patrick Henry
To: UHJ <secre...@bwc.org>; Letters to Editor <let...@nytimes.com>;
bahai-faith @ makelist.com <bahai...@makelist.com>
Subject: To UHJ July 24, 1998
Date: Friday, July 24, 1998 9:03 PM
July 24,1998
Dear Members of the Universal House of Justice:
As a Bahai, I am saddened by the news of the execution of yet
another Bahai in Iran. However, the immediate public statements
made by Firuz Kazemzadeh of the National Spiritual Assembly
of the United States, reminiscent of Robert Henderson's piece in
The New York Times on January 13th of this year, appear equally
lamentable for their blatant hypocrisy: "We had hoped that President
Khatami's assertions about freedom, justice and the rule of law in Iran
would apply to the Baha'is of that country.... We urge the international
community to protest vigorously Mr. Rowhani's killing and to seek
justice for the beleaguered Iranian Baha'i community."
The tragic loss of Bahai lives in Iran and the subsequent exploitation
of their deaths by Bahai spokesmen, often in the American media,
always courting the President and other members of the government,
has become a predictable pattern rendered intolerable in the context
of continuing and pervasive Bahai censorship and denial of human
and civil rights in the United States and elsewhere. Such incidents as
I queried you about in my unanswered email of March 31, 1997,
available on my Web site, regarding the crushing of the magazine
Dialogue, the resignations of a number of scholars from the Bahai
Encyclopedia, the attacks on the listserv known as Talisman I at
Indiana University, the harassing and blacklisting of many individuals,
Bahai and non-Bahai, suggest profoundly deep-seated problems within
the Bahai community and administration.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/To-UHJ1.htm
To these incidents must now be added the apparent conspiracy for more
than a year and a half of the Bahai Computer and Communications
Committee (BCCA), under the chairmanship of Mark Towfiq, to defeat
twice now, along with the collusion of other Bahais, the creation of an
unmoderated newsgroup on the Bahai Faith which would be known as
talk.religion.bahai. You may find extensive documentation for all of
these violations of the basic human rights of many Bahais and
non-Bahais on my Web site, "The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom
of Conscience": http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/index.htm
Because the third interest poll for talk.religion.bahai on Usenet is
approaching, after August 28th, I ask you again to investigate the
BCCA and its depriving me of access last November from all private
Bahai-only mailing lists at a crucial moment just when the tide of
discussion was going very much in favor of the newsgroup, noted by
many observers. I also ask whether you supported or were involved in
that decision? The relevant files can be found on my Web site under
Bahai-Discuss Archives.
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/archive.htm
Similarly, I would like to know whether your institution or the BCCA has
approved of or advocated the recent ban of my email signature file by
the moderators of soc.religion.bahai, as well as their complete ban for
more than a year and a half now on all discussion regarding
talk.religion.bahai.
The prevailing atmosphere of suppression of free speech and
religious conscience that now characterizes the Bahai Faith cannot
but call into question the honesty of many members of the Bahai
administration and perhaps the institutions themselves.
I ask once more whether censorship is allowed in the Bahai Faith and
what passages of the Bahai Writings support it, what are the "rules," if
you will, of Bahai censorship?
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm On talk.religion.bahai,
alt.religion.bahai, and AOL: Keyword Bahai or Newsgroups
------
Professor Juan Cole, of the University of Michigan,
discusses related issues in his journal article "The Baha'i
Faith in America as Panopticon, 1963-1997":
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/1999/jssr/bhjssr.htm
Also see:
Full Text of UHJ's Letter of April 7, 1999
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/UHJLetterApril71999.htm
Juan Cole, "Commentary" on UHJ's "outburst of vehement ignorance"
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Outburst.htm
Letter of Resignation from Paul Dodenhoff, Assistant to the Auxiliary Board
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/LetterResignationPD.htm
Mesbah Javid
is unbelievable!
Patrick Henry <patric...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:rr2lda...@corp.supernews.com...
Eddie
After reading more about Fred's postings,I noticed that we need to be
careful about how we judge Peope on the internet. We need to know that we
can have spiritual diseases. It is so painfull that we can't see spiritual
diseases with microscope.
There is no any power in this world which can heal Fred, beside the
Bahai Faith. Fred has been awared
of the revelation of Baha'u'llah. He read the covenant of Baha'u'llah. He
knows or may have read about the power which The all mighty GOD has
conferred to the UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE and to which all
mankind need to turn for guidance.
The question is : Did he understand the covenant of Baha'u'llah or
the will and testament of Baha'u'llah?
So ,We can ask ourselves: " If not " . We need to pray for him and show him
a lot of love. Perhaps ,He doesn't
have yet the capacity of understanding the revelation of Baha'u'llah in
this time.
He does need a lot of love and prayers.
"If yes" We should pray
a lot for him , but leave him alone. We shouldn't dispute
with him. Fred can be a Test for us . Please let us not be tested by him.And
this applies to members of this
newsgroup, like , juan , Mehdi and all who bring confusion , doubt and
suspission about our divene supreme institution( The UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF
JUSTICE).
Dear Friends, You know the difference between this dispensation( The
baha'i Faith) and past dispensations
( Islam. Christinity, judaism,..................) is that In our holy
ook( Kitab-i-agdas), Baha'u'llah left us an instutition
(UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE) which need to guide us and all mankind and
promised to guide it and wrote about it in his writings, but in other past
dispensations ,this never occured. Now , we and all mankind ,we will not
be seduced by " Power-Hunger Leaders" and all people who have their
agenda,BECAUSE EVERYTHING ,we follow concerning the UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF
JUSTICE ,are WRITEN IN BAHAULLAH 's WRITINGS
Let us who have had privilege of understanding the covenant of
Baha'u'llah to pray every day for the mercy of God. Because with the
covenant of Baha'u'llah,We have inner peace , The faith will always win
victory.
Let us sit back and relaxe and let be happy,because the source of happiness
is the knowledge of the covenant of Baha'u'llah.
In My ALL LIFE ,I was never happy ,until I recognised the COVENANT OF
BAHA"U"LLAH.
I invite People ,here Bahais or No-Bahais to be depened or to know about
the history of The COVENANT OF BAHA"U"LLAh ,if they are looking for
happiness .
Adelard R.
One Love
Patrick Henry wrote in message ...
>From: Frederick Glaysher <fgla...@hotmail.com>
>To: UHJ <secre...@bwc.org>; Letters to Editor <let...@nytimes.com>;
Pat Kohli
Mesbah Javid wrote:
> Is this person Fred a Baha'i in good standing in the USA? It
> is unbelievable!
Do the math.
He has a site on the world wide web claiming that he is being censored.
I would tend to be skeptical of someone with a global audience telling
me that they were censored. I would wonder if _anyone_ could believe a
message so eloquently disproved by its own medium.
He claims that the cause is oppressive and that he has known this for
seven or so years. Obviously the Baha'is have not dragged him off to a
heresy trial as is claimed is part of the "Technique"
Makes you wonder if it is supposed to be a sick joke?
May Allah guide us all in the straight path,
- Pat
Mr Mahdi
>After reading more about Fred's postings,I noticed that we need to be
>careful about how we judge Peope on the internet.
Since you once bragged about being a proud African and black man, how do you
explain the fact that bab and bahaullah owned BLACK AFRICAN SLAVES they NEVER
freed? In Islam, it orders us to free slaves. In the bahai faith, the central
figures bab and bahaullah never freed their BLACK AFRICAN SLAVES. So you still
think that the bahai faith is for the BLACK MAN? I am half black and iranian
and since I am not a racial nationalist like you are, it must hurt that a lot
more than me that bab and bahaullah owned black slaves they never freed.
One Truth
Mahdi
be...@livingston.com
"Mesbah Javid" <1111117...@3web.net> wrote:
> Is this person Fred a Baha'i in good standing in the USA? It
> is unbelievable!
I dont know about that, but I know he is a perfect candidate
for Mr. -LOL-Mahdi's future Islam's "caliphate" !
- Cyrus
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Mesbah Javid
news:7p225v$gov$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
| I dont know about that, but I know he is a perfect
candidate
| for Mr. -LOL-Mahdi's future Islam's "caliphate" !
This is absolutely the most, the greatest, the best
recommendation of the last 6000 years of history.
be...@livingston.com
mrm...@aol.com (Mr Mahdi) wrote:
> Since you once bragged about being a proud African and black man, how
do you
> explain the fact that bab and bahaullah owned BLACK AFRICAN SLAVES
they NEVER
> freed? In Islam, it orders us to free slaves. In the bahai faith,
the central
> figures bab and bahaullah never freed their BLACK AFRICAN SLAVES. So
you still
> think that the bahai faith is for the BLACK MAN? I am half black and
iranian
> and since I am not a racial nationalist like you are, it must hurt
that a lot
> more than me that bab and bahaullah owned black slaves they never
freed.
>
> One Truth
>
> Mahdi
Well ...dear Ayatollah-LOL-Mahdi: how do you explain the _FACT_
that Muhammad was a child molesting charlatan who married a 9-year
old little girl ? Hmmm..what am I hearing in the background ? different
time and traditions ?
By the way ..how's your search for new caliph going ? Can the
new caliph be a non-muslim (since a non-muslim country can be
governed by Islamic rules !!) ?
- Cyrus (still wondering at your amazing brain power)
be...@livingston.com
>
> Since you once bragged about being a proud African and black man, how
do you
> explain the fact that bab and bahaullah owned BLACK AFRICAN SLAVES
they NEVER
> freed? In Islam, it orders us to free slaves. In the bahai faith,
the central
> figures bab and bahaullah never freed their BLACK AFRICAN SLAVES. So
you still
> think that the bahai faith is for the BLACK MAN? I am half black and
iranian
> and since I am not a racial nationalist like you are, it must hurt
that a lot
> more than me that bab and bahaullah owned black slaves they never
freed.
>
> One Truth
>
> Mahdi
>
Well...dear Master_of_English_and_Logic: Following your line of
ligic, then how can you be a muslim when you know Muhammad was
a child-molester who married a 9-year-old little girl ? ha ?
by the way ..how's your search for future calpih is going ?
Can I apply ? Please ?
-Cyrus
Mr Mahdi
>Well ...dear Ayatollah-LOL-Mahdi
There are no "ayatollahs' or "mullas" in Islam. Muhammad (saaw) and the Sahaba
were never ever "ayatollahs or mullas." Those are from shi'a.
>how do you explain the _FACT_
>that Muhammad was a child molesting charlatan who married a 9-year
>old little girl ? Hmmm..what am I hearing in the background ? different
>time and traditions ?
What he is hearing is the refutations of it right here (if he has the guts to
go to the site):
http://salam.muslimsonline.com/~islamawe/Polemics/aishah.html
>By the way ..how's your search for new caliph going ?
By the way, how was that site I referred him to:
Noticed he has yet to comment on that site. He is afraid he might find out the
truth about Islam and the Quran, so he avoids the site all together.
Mahdi
bere...@my-deja.com
> I am half black and iranian...
Khob, Agha-ye Mahdi. Cheshmeh hameh rowshan. Shoma nesf Irani-ham keh
hastid? How does it feel to be a vatan forush?
Btw it was the Bab who had an African ghulam. To my understanding
Baha'u'llah didn't.
Berekiah
Eddie
I speak 4 languages ,english is my 4th language, I even think I speak more
languages than you do.
Mr Mehdi, I do believe People in United-States confuse slavely and
servitude. White-Christians americans
used Bible's verses to promote Slavery. In Bible ,new or old testement ,
there are some critical verses relating to slavely and servitude, even in
Koran, Muhamed was called Slave of God. Look what is happening for example
in Sudan, Look how muslims are slaving Christians . People use holy Book
's verses most relating to servitude to promote " Slavely".
Slavery ,in American , was horrible and inhuman ,and is different from what
was happening in past civilizations. May Allah give you strengh to heal
from the horrible history of slavery , and current challenge of racism in
today's american life.
I would to let you know that Baha'u'llah or Bab didn't have Slaves ,
instead they had Servants , and most for
the idea of protecting them. that was the culture of that time and even now.
If you travel in Africa, or in Asian, Iran now or let say the THIRD WORLD
COUNTRIES , or ask any immigrant in the USA, he will talk to you that they
have Servants or Servant-girl in their
house. Myself ,in my family , we have a Servant, he cooks for us, he does
clean the house ,he does leave in our house.But we do respect him and show
him a lot of dignity.For us , it is like normal. BUT IN THE USA,
YOU CAN ' T KNOW UNDERSTAND THAT , ESPECIALLY BECAUSE OF PAST AMERICAN
SLAVELY, you just think
TO BE A SERVANT AND TO BE A SLAVE IS THE SAME.
So in time of BAHA'U'LLAH, in IRAN where , even ISLAM was major religion
and still is , the holy coran ruled
the country, and some of its verses promote freeing slaves, I thing Slaves
was not practiced, and if yes , It was probably MUSLIMS WHO WERE
PRACTICING SLAVELY.
But in case of BAHA'U'LLAH and BAB , THEY HAD SERVANTS ,not SLAVES and
THEY WERE PROTECTING THEM. And the fact that they had Servants from
different nationality( BLACK RACE) .This
shows me their magnitude of their love ,yes ended they were the embodiement
of LOVE .
For example , in Africa, Because our FAMILY were FROM TUTSI ETHNIC , my
parent supposed to do the best to find a SERVANT from TUTSI ETHNIC. If he
was HUTU,WE COULDN'T KEEP HIM. And this example
shows you what happened or is happenin in Africa. In one word ,that is
ETHNIC or RACIAL PREJUDICE.
So , you can understand how BAB and BAHA'U'HAH destroyed those barriers of
RACIAL PREJUDICE,in
keeping AFRICAN SERVANTS in their house .In BAHAI FAITH , we even know that
one
of baha'u'llah servants knew all the secrets of BAHA'U"LLAH.
In my secong posting concerning this subject will be to talk to you about
little more history about those
SERVANTS and to let you know this is home ,this faith is our savior,we Black
,White and al .it is symbol of
justice on earth.
Adelard R
Throughtout history, in holy Books ( new testament , and old testament,
ect),
there are some critical verses relating to slavery and servitude which
have been
Mr Mahdi wrote in message <19990813024153...@ng-bk1.aol.com>...
>I see your English and your common sense has not improved:
>
>>After reading more about Fred's postings,I noticed that we need to be
>>careful about how we judge Peope on the internet.
>
>Since you once bragged about being a proud African and black man, how do
you
>explain the fact that bab and bahaullah owned BLACK AFRICAN SLAVES they
NEVER
>freed? In Islam, it orders us to free slaves. In the bahai faith, the
central
>figures bab and bahaullah never freed their BLACK AFRICAN SLAVES. So you
still
>think that the bahai faith is for the BLACK MAN? I am half black and
iranian
>and since I am not a racial nationalist like you are, it must hurt that a
lot
>more than me that bab and bahaullah owned black slaves they never freed.
>
>One Truth
>
>Mahdi
>
Patrick Henry
none of the real issues of Bahai censorship and
repression but merely once again maligning my
character. All of which has been well summed
up long ago in The Bahai Technique:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/technique.htm
Notice again the character assassination techniques
used by my fellow Bahais--quite typical of their
deceitful love and unity....
Incidentally, notice too their backbiting and slandering
of my status as a Bahai. I've been a member of the
Bahai faith for over 23 years and am every bit as good
of a member as they or anyone else is.
--
Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death!"
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
Into the Ruins: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0967042127/
<be...@livingston.com> wrote in message news:7p225v$gov$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <7otnl5$ba5$1...@iceman.tac.net>,
> "Mesbah Javid" <1111117...@3web.net> wrote:
> > Is this person Fred a Baha'i in good standing in the USA? It
> > is unbelievable!
>
> I dont know about that, but I know he is a perfect candidate
> for Mr. -LOL-Mahdi's future Islam's "caliphate" !
> - Cyrus
mrm...@aol.com
Mr Mehdi, I do believe People in United-States confuse slavely and
> servitude.
LOL, I guess the "house negro" was a servant, while the "field negro" was
the "slave." Dude, slavery is slavery. The SLAVES bab and bahaullah
BOUGHT (YES, THEY DID BUY THE SLAVES) are slaves, plain and simple.
They were not FREE just to leave them, remember, they were SLAVES.
> I would to let you know that Baha'u'llah or Bab didn't have Slaves ,
> instead they had Servants , and most for
> the idea of protecting them.
Again, it is like calling the "house negro" a "servant" while calling the
"field negro" the slave. Come on, both were slaves. In Islam, we are
commanded to free slaves. The Muslims rescued the Ethopian slave Bilal from
his pagan slave master. In Islam, freeing a slave is a duty. Muhammad (saaw)
said you must obey your LEADER even if he is an Ethopian. Islam ERADICATED
racism long before the false religion called the bahai faith came on the
scene. Actually the bahai faith stole the anti- racism priniciples of Islam
and claimed it to be its own. Islam never make race an issue, we dont go to
black people and say "oh, Islam loves you blacks, why not be Muslim." Bahais
often expolit the race issue, and in some case attracting naive and gullible
people like you into believing that the principles on the bahai faith only
come from the bahai faith, when it reality they are stolen from other
religions. Most of us in America who converted to Islam are blacks, go
anywhere, the streets, the prisons, the schools, etc., see people converting
to Islam left and right. You have extreme ignorance of Islam, the principles
you hold so high are principles stolen from Islam and you dont even know it.
For example, the khilafah or caliphate called for a one-nation planet.
Islam called for and accomplished the eradication of racism. Islam is pro-
enviroment. Islam eradicates poverty. Islam made SLAVES into LEADERS
of the Muslims. Many ex-slaves became leaders in Islam.
, THEY HAD SERVANTS ,not SLAVES and
> THEY WERE PROTECTING THEM. And the fact that they had Servants
from
> different nationality( BLACK RACE) .This
> shows me their magnitude of their love ,yes ended they were the
embodiement
> of LOVE .
What kind of "servant" is BOUGHT and never free to travel or leave? Is
this a new kind of "servitude?" It is funny that the ones who told me this
about bab and bahaullah owning slaves were BAHAI SCHOLARS. So I am
not making this up. You are in denial, plain and simple.
I always noticed from your posts an extreme condescending attitude from
you. Also you are EXTREMELY NAIVE to believe that all the feel-good
principles you happen to see in the bahai faith is something unique to the
bahai faith. 100,000 people in America every year convert to Islam.
Nobody is paid, nobody gets any material benefits, its all to please Allah.
Your extreme naivte is typical of simple-minded cultist. You really believe
that the bahai faith is unique, all the principles IT STOLED really is unique
only in the bahai faith.
> So , you can understand how BAB and BAHA'U'HAH destroyed those
barriers of
> RACIAL PREJUDICE,in
> keeping AFRICAN SERVANTS in their house
LOL, Islam destroyed the barriers of racism by making slaves LEADERS of
Muslims! Islam made slaves into free men, making them the most
educated, successful, people on earth. You dont hear blacks converting to
the bahai faith in droves, you here blacks converting to Islam in droves.
Most people like me take the bahai faith as a cult, so why would people
think a obscure cult can do any good? We have hundreds of cults saying
the same things as the bahai faith, making the same claims as the bahai
faith. If you had common sense you realize that.
Patrick Henry
which is all one ever hears from Pat Kohli.
--
Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death!"
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
Into the Ruins: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0967042127/
Pat Kohli <ko...@ameritel.net> wrote in message
news:37B3A6F6...@ameritel.net...
> Allahu Abha!
>
> Mesbah Javid wrote:
>
> > Is this person Fred a Baha'i in good standing in the USA? It
> > is unbelievable!
>
Patrick Henry
one for my fellow Bahais. Note the condencsion in it
throughout, referring to spiritual disease, etc., all the
while refusing to consider or acknowledge the lies and
deceit that the uhj and its adminstrative "jerks" have used
against many Bahais and non-Bahais, as is document on
my website and Professor Cole's.
I submit to newcomers here that the Assorted Controversial
Documents on my website all demonstrate the very profound
problems over more than a decade that the uhj has had with
freedom of speech and conscience, both of which the
central figures of the Bahai faith RESPECTED and spoke
highly of many, many times.
--
Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death!"
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
Into the Ruins: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0967042127/
Eddie <edr...@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:7p06mu$o...@enews3.newsguy.com...
Patrick Henry
> do you
> > explain the fact that bab and bahaullah owned BLACK AFRICAN SLAVES
> they NEVER
> > freed? In Islam, it orders us to free slaves. In the bahai faith,
> the central
> > figures bab and bahaullah never freed their BLACK AFRICAN SLAVES. So
> you still
> > think that the bahai faith is for the BLACK MAN? I am half black and
> iranian
> > and since I am not a racial nationalist like you are, it must hurt
> that a lot
> > more than me that bab and bahaullah owned black slaves they never
> freed.
> >
> > One Truth
> >
> > Mahdi
>
> that Muhammad was a child molesting charlatan who married a 9-year
> old little girl ?
Basically, the truth is, so did Baha'u'llah, but the uhj
always lies about it....
--
Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death!"
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
Into the Ruins: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0967042127/
Hmmm..what am I hearing in the background ? different
> time and traditions ?
>
> By the way ..how's your search for new caliph going ? Can the
> new caliph be a non-muslim (since a non-muslim country can be
> governed by Islamic rules !!) ?
>
> - Cyrus (still wondering at your amazing brain power)
>
>
Patrick Henry
to flood talk.religion.bahai with this type of ignorant
banter so as not to have to address the very serious
and real incidents of censorship and abuse that the
uhj and the fascists in the administrative order have
committed. That is, by lowering constantly the
level of discussion and interaction, they created an
environment that will drive out inquiring minds and
make the contentions against censorship appear
to be groundless or cranky--actually, a very old Bahai
technique....
--
Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death!"
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
Into the Ruins: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0967042127/
<be...@livingston.com> wrote in message news:7p2epl$p8v$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <19990813024153...@ng-bk1.aol.com>,
> mrm...@aol.com (Mr Mahdi) wrote:
> > I see your English and your common sense has not improved:
> >
>
> > Since you once bragged about being a proud African and black man, how
> do you
> > explain the fact that bab and bahaullah owned BLACK AFRICAN SLAVES
> they NEVER
> > freed? In Islam, it orders us to free slaves. In the bahai faith,
> the central
> > figures bab and bahaullah never freed their BLACK AFRICAN SLAVES. So
> you still
> > think that the bahai faith is for the BLACK MAN? I am half black and
> iranian
> > and since I am not a racial nationalist like you are, it must hurt
> that a lot
> > more than me that bab and bahaullah owned black slaves they never
> freed.
> >
> > One Truth
> >
> > Mahdi
> >
>
> Well...dear Master_of_English_and_Logic: Following your line of
> ligic, then how can you be a muslim when you know Muhammad was
> a child-molester who married a 9-year-old little girl ? ha ?
>
> by the way ..how's your search for future calpih is going ?
> Can I apply ? Please ?
> -Cyrus
>
>
Smaneck
>is unbelievable!
Why don't you call the National Baha'i Center and find out?
Susan Stiles Maneck
History, Stetson University
Smaneck
>that Muhammad was a child molesting charlatan who married a 9-year
>old little girl ?
Dear Cyrus,
As you know, early marriages were quite common in antiquity. While Muhammad
married Aisha when she was 9, my understanding is that the marriage was not
consumated until she reached puberty.
Smaneck
> I would to let you know that Baha'u'llah or Bab didn't have Slaves ,
>instead they had Servants
Dear Abelard,
The principle difference between a slave and a servant is that former is
purchased. The family of the Bab and Baha'u'llah had purchased these people.
>most for
>the idea of protecting them.
Do you have a source or documentation which would support this?
> I thing Slaves
>was not practiced, and if yes , It was probably MUSLIMS WHO WERE
>PRACTICING SLAVELY.
>
Slavery was quite widespread in the Islamic world. This is why the Bab and
Baha'u'llah had slaves. But it was not tied to race (although Africa was one
of the principle sources), slave status was less frequently passed down through
generations, and they were rarely used in plantation agriculture, one of the
most brutal forms of slavery. Slaves were often used in the military and state
bureaucracy, rising to the highest positions and sometimes even taking over.
Slavery in the Middle East was a very different Institution than it was in the
Americas. But it was still slavery.
Pat Kohli
Patrick Henry wrote:
> More Bahai fundamentalist damage control,
> which is all one ever hears from Pat Kohli.
>
Fred, I am so flattered by this personal response. I was expecting the new
canned regurgibuttal:
"Another typical fundamentalist post, addressing
none of the real issues of Bahai censorship and
repression but merely once again maligning my
character. All of which has been well summed
up long ago in The Bahai Technique:"
But I would expect that the your fundamentalist damage control would be deny
any opportunity for discussion. Does it continue, or can "Pollywannakwacka .
. .Awwchh!" end?
Auf weidersehen!
- Pat
> Pat Kohli <ko...@ameritel.net> wrote in message
> news:37B3A6F6...@ameritel.net...
> > Allahu Abha!
> >
> > Mesbah Javid wrote:
> >
> > > Is this person Fred a Baha'i in good standing in the USA? It
> > > is unbelievable!
> >
Pat Kohli
> > Well ...dear Ayatollah-LOL-Mahdi: how do you explain the _FACT_
> > that Muhammad was a child molesting charlatan who married a 9-year
> > old little girl ?
>
> Basically, the truth is, so did Baha'u'llah,
It is curious that for 23 years you would pretend to follow one you recognize
as a child molestor who married a child. Are you an Elvis fan as well?
> but the uhj
> always lies about it....
What statements has the Universal House of Justice made about the matter?
Or, do you just write this up to flood talk.religion.bahai with this type of
prurient banter so as not to have to defend the very serious allegations that
you raise. That is, by lowering constantly the level of discussion and
interaction, you created an environment that will drive out inquiring minds
and distract attention from the responses against your allegations of
censorship-- perhaps, a very old Fred technique?
Smaneck
>Another typical fundamentalist post, addressing
>none of the real issues of Bahai censorship and
>repression but merely once again maligning my
>character.
Cyrus, you became a fundamentalist Baha'i without even telling us? How rude! :)
Patrick Henry
>
> Fred, I am so flattered by this personal response.
Your responses have only confirmed my suspicion
that I was making a mistake in lowering myself to
the level of responding to any message of yours.
--
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
Patrick Henry
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOLcensorship.txt
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
Garbage:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck3.htm
Litter:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck7.htm
--
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
Into the Ruins: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0967042127/
Smaneck <sma...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990814130531...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
> >Is this person Fred a Baha'i in good standing in the USA? It
> >is unbelievable!
>
> Why don't you call the National Baha'i Center and find out?
Patrick Henry
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOL.htm
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/AOLcensorship.txt
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck1.htm
Garbage:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck3.htm
Litter:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/Maneck7.htm
--
Frederick Glaysher....The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience:
http://members.tripod.com/~fglaysher/bahai.htm
Into the Ruins: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0967042127/
Smaneck <sma...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990814133007...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
Mesbah Javid
Smaneck <sma...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990814130531...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
| >Is this person Fred a Baha'i in good standing in the USA?
It
| >is unbelievable!
|
| Why don't you call the National Baha'i Center and find
out?
Eddie
As I promised yesterday ,now I am gonna talk about the story of African
Servants.
Mr Mahdi said:
>
>LOL, I guess the "house negro" was a servant, while the "field negro" was
>the "slave." Dude, slavery is slavery. The SLAVES bab and bahaullah
Adelard said:
A least since the time of beginning of ISLAM , as we have proofs from the
Koran which justifies that,
the word " Slave" and "Servant" were used interchangeably.
Koran
019.030
YUSUFALI: He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me
revelation and made me a prophet;
PICKTHAL: He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the
Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet
The word " Slave" began to have a different meaning with time ,especially in
United states with its horrible history of slavely. So ,when you talk to me
about ->
?" It is funny that the ones who told me this
>about bab and bahaullah owning slaves were ?" It is funny that the ones
who told me this
>about bab and bahaullah owning slaves were BAHAI SCHOLARS
I would like to talk to you even some BAHAI SCHOLARS have been affected
by american slavely. They
may not know to distinguish "Slave" from "Servant". They may explain the
faith following the realities of the
their life environment . That 's why review is very important , because
this faith belongs to 6,000,000 people this time, but not to a handful of
Baha'i scholars who may explain the faith according to society where they
live.
so, let me begin to tell you the story of those servants, Mr Mahdi
responded to me that those African Servants
were bought by Baha'u'llah and Bab, if so they did that in order to protect
them, it was an ISLAM CULTURE,
don't forget it was in IRAN. At that time , it was normal . People didn't
have a voice , only Kings , their numerous members of family , and chiefs
of villages or cities had power, they could do any thing they want at that
time,although Koran ruled Persian for a thousand of years in promoting the
fredom of Slaves.
Same culture reigned in Africa, for example , in West Africa, Chiefs of
villages were involved in selling Africans to White -american. It was a
common culture .You can't understand really well that , because you live
in different time, and of course in the USA.
Look for example in Sudan , today African Muslim , they are still
practicing that old culture, they sell and buy
slaves , if you go over there they will explain to you, it is gonna be
beyond your understanding although you
are Mulslim like them, using their culture and Koran 's verses.
Of course ,they are not gonna protect them, but they do that for their
business 's sake
( ie Plantation agriculture).
In time of Baha'u'llah and Bab, if the act of owning the Servants was not
allowed in PERSAN at that time, that could be the worth thing ,they could
have done , because their claims of being the return of the 12th IMAN and
the return of christ could not attract Followers. Now , you could see a
hundred of books written by Muslim Scholars at that time, about this
subject of owning the Slaves , in order to discredit the Bahai Faith.
As Dr. Susan asked me to show her any documentation where it is said
about Baha'u'llah protecting his
African servant whose name was ISFANDIYAR,I would like to write some
quotes from the talk,Abdu'l-baha,the son of baha'u'llah ,who lived with his
father for all his life , gave
in 10 november 1992
in washington,D.C
at home of Mr. and Mrs.
joseph H. Hannen
1252 eighth street
This talk can be found in the promulgation of universal peace,page 425.
In this talk ,Abdu'l-baha was talking about unity about Black and white.
" I had a servant who was black;his name was ISFANDIYAR.If a perfect man
could be found
in the world ,that man was ISFANDIYAR.He was the essence of love,radiant
with sanctity and perfection.
Whenever I think of ISFANDIYAR ,I am moved to years ,although he passed away
50 years ago.He was the
faithfull of Baha'u'llah , and was entrusted with his secrets."
"In fact they were not his debts,but the debts of the court,for all our
proprieties had been confiscated.Everything we had were taken away from
us.The only things that
remained were our debts.ISFANDIYAR paid them in full;not a single penny
remained unpaid.
Then he came to us ,said to us good-bye and went away.
Afterward,Baha'u'llah was released from prison.We went to baghdad,and
ISFANDIYAR came there.
He wanted to stay in the same home ,BAHA'U"LLAH ,the Blessed-Perfection,said
to him :"
When you fled away ,there was a PERSIAN MINISTER WHO GAVE YOU SHELTER AT
TIME WHEN
NO ONE ELSE COULD GIVE YOU PROTECTION,YOU MUST BE FAITHFUL TO HIM.IF HE IS
SATISFIED TO HAVE YOU GO,THEN COME TO US IF HE DOES NOT WANT YOU,DO NOT
LEAVE HIM."
His Master said:" I do not WANT to be saparated from ISFANDIYAR.Where can I
find another like him,with such sincererity,such faithfullness,such
charactor ,such power?Where can I find one?O ISFANDIYAR! I am
not willing that you should go, yet if you wish to go, let it be
according to your own will"
Concerning the Servant which Bab had,whose the name goes by Mubarak( the
ethiopian servant) , there is few references ,I think about his life,
except that when Bab was going to mecca to proclaim his mission as the
return of the 12th IMAM ,to Muslims who came to celebrate the festival of
sacrifices( which commemorates the sacrifice offered by Abraham to his son
and is celebrated throughtout the Muslims world, offered a nice gesture to
Mubarak( the ethiopian servant) during the ceremony of the prescribed
sacrifice, in sacrificing 3 animals on his behalf , 7 to Quddus( the most
distinguished disciple of Bab and Baha'u'llah) and 9 to himself.
In Conclusion , what a priviledge, those African Servants had to be and
lived with the promised of all ages.In eyes of People , or No-Bahais ,
they ,of course ,see or saw them as Servants. But in reality, they
were living with their heart's desires, manifestations of GOD
Baha'u'llah and Bab)!!!!
I can't describe that priviledge.
In my next post ,I would like to respond to Mahdi, Why this faith is our
savior ,but first let him justify what
he said above
>Your extreme naivte is typical of simple-minded cultist. You really
believe
>that the bahai faith is unique, all the principles IT STOLED really is
unique
>only in the bahai faith.
>
Mahdi,don't think that I do most believe that the Bahai faith is to be
unique because of its principles, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT "YOU
NEED TO KNOW , RECOGNISE AND
BELEIVE THAT ITS AUTHOR IS THE PROMISED ONE OF ALL AGES .
HE is WHO in the World testament has been named JEHOVAH, WHO in Gospel
has been designated as
THE SPIRIT OF THRUTH, in the Q'uran acclaimed as THE GREAT ANNOUNCEMENT.
But for HIM ,no DIVINE MESSENGER would have been invested with the robe
of PROPHETHOOD,nor would any of the Sacred scriptures have been revealed.
Adelard R.
One Love
mrm...@aol.com wrote in message <7p41b5$p86$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>Had to respond to this:
>
>Mr Mehdi, I do believe People in United-States confuse slavely and
>> servitude.
>
>LOL, I guess the "house negro" was a servant, while the "field negro" was
>the "slave." Dude, slavery is slavery. The SLAVES bab and bahaullah
>BOUGHT (YES, THEY DID BUY THE SLAVES) are slaves, plain and simple.
>They were not FREE just to leave them, remember, they were SLAVES.
>
>> I would to let you know that Baha'u'llah or Bab didn't have Slaves ,
>> instead they had Servants , and most for
>> the idea of protecting them.
>
Michael McKenny
Greetings, Susan.
Hmmm, I never heard this. The Romans bred slaves. I assumed the same
was true of the Old Southern plantation owners.
I think the main distinction between being a slave and a servant is
that you can quit your job as a servant, for which you are paid, while
you are not paid to be a slave and just try and leave.
Hoping this clarifies the issue,
michael
Smaneck (sma...@aol.com) writes:
>
> The principle difference between a slave and a servant is that former is
> purchased. The family of the Bab and Baha'u'llah had purchased these people.
> Susan Stiles Maneck
--
"My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard."
(Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2)
Mr Mahdi
> A least since the time of beginning of ISLAM , as we have proofs from the
>Koran which justifies that,
>the word " Slave" and "Servant" were used interchangeably.
That is where you are wrong, because the Quran is in Arabic not english:
>Koran
>019.030
>YUSUFALI: He said: "I am indeed a servant of Allah: He hath given me
>revelation and made me a prophet;
>PICKTHAL: He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the
>Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet
>
>
In arabic, the word for "servant" (a person who is NOT BOUGHT) is Khaadim. In
arabic, the word for a person who is either bought or either submits to the
will of God is called an " 'abd."
The verse you cited said 'abd not Khaadim. Yes, a slave "serves" his master,
so it is okay to call a slave a servant but remember, a servant as in the word
"Khaadim" in not bought.
What bab and bahaullah had were slaves THEY BOUGHT.
> I would like to talk to you even some BAHAI SCHOLARS have been affected
>by american slavely.
Come on, those SLAVES were BOUGHT!!! I dont care how America was affected by
slavery, those slaves were still bought!
> Now , you could see a
>hundred of books written by Muslim Scholars at that time, about this
>subject of owning the Slaves , in order to discredit the Bahai Faith.
>
LOL, please name me one book!!!
>He was the
>faithfull of Baha'u'llah , and was entrusted with his secrets."
>
Most "house negroes" were faithful to their masters, but listen, they were
still BOUGHT. And the thing about it is they were never freed. Muslims bought
slaves just to free them, look at Bilal (ra)!
>In my next post ,I would like to respond to Mahdi, Why this faith is our
>savior ,but first let him justify what
>he said above
>
>>Your extreme naivte is typical of simple-minded cultist. You really
>believe
>>that the bahai faith is unique, all the principles IT STOLED really is
>unique
>>only in the bahai faith.
>>
>
>Mahdi,don't think that I do most believe that the Bahai faith is to be
>unique because of its principles, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT "YOU
>NEED TO KNOW , RECOGNISE AND
>BELEIVE THAT ITS AUTHOR IS THE PROMISED ONE OF ALL AGES .
> HE is WHO in the World testament has been named JEHOVAH, WHO in Gospel
>has been designated as
>THE SPIRIT OF THRUTH, in the Q'uran acclaimed as THE GREAT ANNOUNCEMENT.
>
> But for HIM ,no DIVINE MESSENGER would have been invested with the robe
>of PROPHETHOOD,nor would any of the Sacred scriptures have been revealed.
It is very sad that you dont realize how simple and gullible you are. You
virtually converted to the bahai faith because of emotional reasons. I recall
a post from you saying that before you became bahai you weren't happy, but
after you became bahai, you were happy. This proves that you consider truth
not by irrefutable facts, but by anything that makes you happy. Truth is based
on irrefutable facts, and that is why Islam is truth. So you felt that the
textual-twisting and the word games of bahais made enough sense that you
embrace this religion on an emotional basis, not caring if this religion is a
small, obscure off-shoot of the shi'a faith, not caring that the religion is so
incomplete that it needs the UHJ to continuously legislate laws into the bahai
faith (because a real religion from God only needs one messenger to convey a
complete message).
Also many of the principles in the bahai faith like I said before were actually
stolen from other religions, esp. Islam. Islam called for a one-nation earth
(the caliphate), Islam called for the elimination of racism, Islam called for
universal peace, called for the end of poverty and oppression, etc. The thing
about it is that Islam accomplished at one point all of the above, while the
bahai faith AFTER 150 YEARS has yet to come out of its cult like status of
obscurity.
Mahdi
Eddie
Mr Mahdi said:"
>What bab and bahaullah had were slaves THEY BOUGHT.
The African servants were slaves before Baha'u'llah and Bab bought them.As
I showed you in my last post,
in the words of the son of Baha'u'llah ,Abdu'l-baha ,in Washington DC during
his talk about race unity in 1912,
concerning Baha'u'llah 's desire for protecting his servant ISFANDIYAR.
His servant ,ISFANDIYAR ,even once , paid the debts of Baha'u'llah's
familly, just to show the affection ,he had for Baha'u'llah.
In fact ,I think , Bab and Baha'u'llah bought mainly Black slaves in order
to protect them , because they
were , may be,likely to be more vulnerable , if owned by others, because of
their black race in Persan dominated society.
And also ,remember that Bab and Baha'u'llah 's writings ,at that time ,
were considered as a new revolution which was going to overthrow the
Persan government and the clergy. So ,African Servants were more likely
to be trustworthy than Persan slaves or may be they might have some
special spiritual qualities,only Bab and Baha'u'llah could see .As you read
in my last post ,ISFANDYAR knew the secrets of Baha'u'llah. And even some
time ,Persian gorvenment and Mullahs were looking for him to tell them about
Baha'u'llah 's secrets.
Don't think onwing those African servants ,Baha'u'llah and Bab had the
intention of degrading Black race.
I just want to inform you that Baha'u'llah revealed in his writings that
Black race are the Pupils of eyes,
Black race has special task in the bahai faith and in the world ,Black
race will be the leader in the advancement of civilization. This is the
message of ALLAH in this day through the revelation of Baha'u'llah.
Black race have been oppressed a lot , this is a new day ,Mr Medhi. Come
home , in this new garden ,and
you will discover your pontentialies through the healing message of
Baha'u'llah.
In my view ,I have been thinking that you view this faith as a white
religion . this is a religion for all manking.
Just to be fair , I considered those american bahais or white bahais, as
you like to call them , to be those Angels ,foretold in the old
scriptures( Bible, ...) who will come with the Messiah or the return of
christ .
We all have been intoxicated by the love of our heart 's Desire, the
Blessed -Beauty,Baha'u'llah ( May peace
be upon him)
Mahdi said:
>It is very sad that you dont realize how simple and gullible you are. You
>virtually converted to the bahai faith because of emotional reasons.
Just to let you know that I was against Baha'i faith, I was even plannig to
kill Bahais in Africa,in Burundi.
I was a christian fundementalist. I investigated this faith for 2 year
,trying to desapprove it , read all books I could find relating to the bahai
faith.
I gave up ,and I declared to be Bahai. Even a Blind can recognise this
revelation, it is a mighty revelation.
In my village, I was like an outcast ,some of my friends turned away from
me, some wanted even to kill me.
It is a long story, a story of conviction , and a love of the Beloved.
Write me privatly if you want ,I will talk to you the whole story.
Mehdi said:"
. I recall
>a post from you saying that before you became bahai you weren't happy, but
>after you became bahai, you were happy. This proves that you consider
truth,not by irrefutable facts
I was talking about the convenant of Baha'u'llah. Yes ,the convenant of
Baha'u'llah is the source of happiness.
Once ,you know it , recognise it , and believe on it , you don't worry
any more about the destruction of
world and all mess which are happening in the world.Because you know the
convenant of Baha'u'llah will take of it ,and the most great peace will come
on earth.
Adelard R
Love
>> I would like to talk to you even some BAHAI SCHOLARS have been
affected
>>by american slavely.
>
>Come on, those SLAVES were BOUGHT!!! I dont care how America was affected
by
>slavery, those slaves were still bought!
>
>> Now , you could see a
>>hundred of books written by Muslim Scholars at that time, about this
>>subject of owning the Slaves , in order to discredit the Bahai Faith.
>>
>
>LOL, please name me one book!!!
>
>>He was the
>>faithfull of Baha'u'llah , and was entrusted with his secrets."
>>
>
>Most "house negroes" were faithful to their masters, but listen, they were
>still BOUGHT. And the thing about it is they were never freed. Muslims
bought
>slaves just to free them, look at Bilal (ra)!
>
>>In my next post ,I would like to respond to Mahdi, Why this faith is our
>>savior ,but first let him justify what
>>he said above
>>
>>>Your extreme naivte is typical of simple-minded cultist. You really
>>believe
>>>that the bahai faith is unique, all the principles IT STOLED really is
>>unique
>>>only in the bahai faith.
>>>
>>
>>Mahdi,don't think that I do most believe that the Bahai faith is to be
>>unique because of its principles, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT "YOU
>>NEED TO KNOW , RECOGNISE AND
>>BELEIVE THAT ITS AUTHOR IS THE PROMISED ONE OF ALL AGES .
>> HE is WHO in the World testament has been named JEHOVAH, WHO in
Gospel
>>has been designated as
>>THE SPIRIT OF THRUTH, in the Q'uran acclaimed as THE GREAT ANNOUNCEMENT.
>>
>> But for HIM ,no DIVINE MESSENGER would have been invested with the robe
>>of PROPHETHOOD,nor would any of the Sacred scriptures have been revealed.
>
Mr Mahdi
Are you kidding me? Do you really think that being a slave makes you less of a
slave if bab and bahaullah bought you? If bab and bahaullah were so great, why
didnt they free their slaves? Like I said, Muslims bought slaves just to free
them, look at Bilal (ra).
>I showed you in my last post,
>in the words of the son of Baha'u'llah ,Abdu'l-baha ,in Washington DC during
>his talk about race unity in 1912,
>concerning Baha'u'llah 's desire for protecting his servant ISFANDIYAR.
>His servant ,ISFANDIYAR ,even once , paid the debts of Baha'u'llah's
>familly, just to show the affection ,he had for Baha'u'llah.
Bahais decades after bab and bahaullah tried to find ways to make sense to the
nonsense of the teachings of bab and bahaullah. For example, when bahaullah
said that copper turns to gold after 70 years in its own mine, bahais decades
later realized he was wrong, so they said what bahaullah said was meant to be
taken "metaphorically." Just like what abdul baha said about bahaullah owning
slaves. He tried to find a way to justify bab and bahaullah owning slaves.
Too bad the naive and gullible were willing to buy anything he said.
>In fact ,I think , Bab and Baha'u'llah bought mainly Black slaves in order
>to protect them , because they
>were , may be,likely to be more vulnerable , if owned by others, because of
>their black race in Persan dominated society.
LOL, if that is so, why didnt he free them? Bilal (ra) was freed by the
Muslims when they bought him from his pagan slave master. And the pre-Islamic
society in Arabia was very racist against blacks, but it didnt make the Muslims
stop from freeing black slaves.
>This is the
>message of ALLAH in this day through the revelation of Baha'u'llah.
>Black race have been oppressed a lot , this is a new day ,Mr Medhi.
After 150 years, the bahai faith is as obscure as ever. If you had common
sense, a real religion of God would NOT need a secondary source of legislation
(the UHJ), because a real religion of God only needs one messenger to convey a
complete message. The bahai faith is constantly evolving, and it is only 150
years old! The bahai faith had rapid successions of people who added,
abrogating, amended, etc., the bahai teachings. Also redefining teachings of
their own religion is common.
The bahai faith in America has a dropout rate of 40 percent. One example is
that there were 22 registered bahais in Compton, California in the 1980s. A
few years later out of 22 registered bahais, only 2 still considered themselves
bahais (Compton, California is a city by Los Angeles with a majority of blacks
and latinos). Many people who convert to the bahai faith leave it after a few
years. Many people who have heard of the bahai faith think of it as a cult,
mainly attracting simple, naive, gullible people who are searching for a
"feel-good" religion (just go to the bahai chats at AOL and see what I am
talking about).
In a world of 6 BILLION, the bahai faith has only about 6 million. The bahai
faith cant stop wars, poverty, crime, racism, etc. It is a religion with no
system of life, it needs an administration like the UHJ and NSA for its
survival in the modern age, despite the fact it is only 150 years old! After
150 years it has yet to have a country that is majority bahai, and has yet to
be implemented as a system of life.
To conclude, all religion including cults promise the world a utopia-like world
if their religion was dominate. Your religion is no different.
>Just to let you know that I was against Baha'i faith, I was even plannig to
>kill Bahais in Africa,in Burundi.
>I was a christian fundementalist. I investigated this faith for 2 year
>,trying to desapprove it , read all books
I think youre lying. How can you be a christian fundamentalist when you were
unhappy as a christian? Also, the bahai faith is the easiest in the world to
refute, I dare you go to "Answering bahaullah" website, you will see your
religion refuted COMPLETELY. Here is the link if you are not afraid of truth:
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/3016/main.htm
I would like you to refute what's on the site, if you really believe the bahai
faith cant be refuted.
Mahdi
Smaneck
>was true of the Old Southern plantation owners.
Dear Michael,
Slaves were not often bred in the Islamic world, which is one reason why they
always had to be imported from elsewhere. The offspring of a union between a
master and his slave girl was considered a legitimate heir to his father.
Furthermore, people could get out of things like fasting in exchange for
freeing a slave so this was done frequently.
be...@livingston.com
mrm...@aol.com (Mr Mahdi) wrote:
> The ex-muslim disgruntled cry-baby anti-muslim iranian strikes again:
...and newly discovered "Fundamentalist Baha'i" !
> >Well ...dear Ayatollah-LOL-Mahdi
>
> There are no "ayatollahs' or "mullas" in Islam. Muhammad (saaw) and
the Sahaba
> were never ever "ayatollahs or mullas." Those are from shi'a.
...and "shi'a" is part of, eh..hmm...Islam ?
>
> >how do you explain the _FACT_
> >that Muhammad was a child molesting charlatan who married a 9-year
> >old little girl ? Hmmm..what am I hearing in the background ?
different
> >time and traditions ?
>
> What he is hearing is the refutations of it right here (if he has the
guts to
> go to the site):
>
> http://salam.muslimsonline.com/~islamawe/Polemics/aishah.html
>
> >By the way ..how's your search for new caliph going ?
>
> By the way, how was that site I referred him to:
>
> http://www.it-is-truth.org/
>
> Noticed he has yet to comment on that site. He is afraid he might
find out the
> truth about Islam and the Quran, so he avoids the site all together.
>
> Mahdi
Mr. Mahdi: seems like you are talking to yourself again !
Please take your medication before posting your nonsense to this
newsgroup !
-Cyrus
ps. you havent't answer my question: why are you here in USA instead
of living happily in Saudi Arabia close to Mecca ?
Eddie
As I showed you in my last , The African Servant ISFANDIYAR was bought in
order to be protected .
Even sometimes, When Baha'u'llah was released from prison,ISFANDIYAR
wanted to stay to his Home in Baghdad , and Baha'u'llah adviced him to go
to be the Servant of The PERSIAN MINISTER.
So, what do you call this ? Is not THIS TO FREE HIM?
ISFANDIYAR didn't have a SHELTER where he can stay and live. And you NEED
TO KNOW THAT ISFANDIYAR ,IF HE WANTS, HE COULD BE FREE.
Read this qoute again from the Talk of the SON of BAHA'U'LLAH, ABDU'l-BAHA
in Washington DC in 1912
<<
We went to baghdad,and ISFANDIYAR came there.
He wanted to stay in the same home ,BAHA'U"LLAH ,the Blessed-Perfection,said
to him :" When you fled away ,there was a PERSIAN MINISTER WHO GAVE YOU
SHELTER AT
TIME WHEN NO ONE ELSE COULD GIVE YOU PROTECTION,YOU MUST BE FAITHFUL TO
HIM.IF HE IS
SATISFIED TO HAVE YOU GO,THEN COME TO US IF HE DOES NOT WANT YOU,DO NOT
LEAVE HIM>>
In BURUNDI, my homeland, we have Servants, Most they work for us in order to
have a SHELTER because they came from so far away in Up-Country ,in
village.The worth thing , you can do sometimes is if you say to some , that
you don't need them, they will get in trouble ,they can be Homeless.
There is no work here comparing to USA, like to work in SEARS or 7-ELEVEN,
in order perhaps , you can rent your Apartement .We are real Poors, not to
many job, in order to survive.To be a Servant is like a Job here.
In conclusion, although some Servants or Slaves could be free and go on
their own, others didn't have a choice , they prefered to stay with their
masters in order to have a SHELTER, this is what happened to ISFANDYAR and
others many.
If you travel to Burundi, you can understand what I am saying.
I just see this is a big test for you. You need to work on it a lot. In
Bahai Faith, they are too many strong tests,
those who remain in this new beautifull gardern "Bahai faith", are those who
have investigated ,recognised and a believed Baha'u'llah as A
MANIFESTATION OF GOD, with sincerity , but those who came to this new
garden, because of they like some Baha'i friends or like some aspect of
bahais teachings ,especially Bahai
humaniterian principles, will fall because they didn't recognise BAHA'U'LLAH
with sincerity.
In brief , YOU MUST RECOGNISED BAHA'U'LLAH TO STAY IN THIS GARDEN. ONCE
YOU ARE IN TOUCH OF THE SPIRIT OF BAHA'U'LLAH, YOU ARE AUTOMATICALY
TRANSFORMED, AND
THEN YOU CAN STAY IN THIS GARDEN ( BAHAI FAITH), TAKING CARE OF IF.
And Those who fall TESTS , like SOME OF EX- BAHAIS you see in this
newsgroup, and even yourself ,ect, they go out of this GARDEN.
In Brief , it is PURIFICATION.
This way of PURIFICATION goes on explaining those BAHAIS , in Compton CA.
They may have become Baha'is without having touched with the " MOST GREAT
SPIRIT"( this is one of the name of BAHA'U'LLAH), may be because of their
Baha'i Friends and probably most likely UNIVERSAL BAHAI HUMANITARIAN
PRINCIPLES. So when they are in this new garden, for example in Bahai Feast,
they begin to see DIVERSITY, instead of hearing maybe, GOSPEL MUSIC, they
grew up hearing in Baptist churches, they began to hear that other new
beautiful sound( FARSI SONG ) from PERSAN or who knows, be exposed to
PERSIAN DISHES , :))))
It takes a while to be used in BAHA'i COMMUNITY because of its diversity.
This same thing is happening in Burundi or Rwanda, for the first time ,
you can see People from different
ethnics,TUTSI and HUTU talk together,or sit in the same room , in Bahai
center . This ,sometimes, creates a
discomfort for some, because of it is new thing for the first time , in
their life.
So, what is happenning in the Los Angeles area,Compton, it is same thing,
can you imagine a city which is well known for its prejudice culture ,
to begin to see Black , white , Latinos, asian, riches,Poors together
,sometimesit is no that easy to leave that GOSPEL MUSIC , you grew up
,hearing everyday, unless you have been touched by the SPIRIT of BAHA'U'
LLAH, and Your eyes have been spiritual opened to see, the new coming
God's
KINGDOM ( THE MOST GREAT PEACE foretold BY BAHA'U'LLAH) which all mankind
, all races , all traditions are welcome.
Mahdi,to tell you the truth about your site, I used to go there six month
ago , and a while ago, I was trying to create an other site which refutes
all misrepresations of the Baha'i Faith.Still thinking how I can set an
other site. Mahdi, this revellation is mighty revelation, I have never seen
a religion with too many proofs like this
FAITH.Unless if you are an hypocrite or don't have sincerity , you can
recognise Baha'u'llah.
I want to remember you that I was like you before,I was against the Baha'i
faith, that is why I understand
in which situation or spiritual confusion you are. If Baha'u'llah 's SPIRIT
touched me, you can be touched too .
But now , you have been facing a lot of TESTS, to recognise your heart's
Desire, you need to pass those tests
first , in order to come home.Otherwise , you will fall in the midle of
the road heading home, like some of EX-Bahais, in this newsgroup.
In Brief,ALLAH doesn't want you that you can come to corrupt this new
garden, like those EX-Baha'is, you
need to pass those TESTS, first. Because this beautifull Garden, this
little enfant faith, where all manking will come to take refuge ,suffered a
lot since its birth from with in and out, now it need a lot of
purifications.
I want to say that this is my last post to you about this subject of
African Servants, if you have grasped my
explanations on this, ALLAH is the All-Mercifull , in not, May Allah opens
more you eyes, in order you can see
The PROMISED of ALL AGES. That is my with, because this is the most
discovery ,I ever did in my life. Life
can 't make sence without Baha'u'llah. My love is so deep to him, THERE IS
NO ANY DESCRIPTION OF IT,
IT IS PERSONNAL EXPERIENCE
Adelard R.
one love
Michael McKenny
Greetings, Susan.
Many thanks for your comment.
The fact remains, as I understand it, that in English the distinction is
best made according to servant being a paid employee who is free to walk
away and slave as property of a master who may not walk away. If Arabic
has two different words for slave English has other words such as serf,
thrall, house slave, captive labourer, etc. to more accurately translate
this distinction without using servant.
To Human Maturity,
Michael
Smaneck (sma...@aol.com) writes:
>
> Slaves were not often bred in the Islamic world, which is one reason why they
> always had to be imported from elsewhere. The offspring of a union between a
> master and his slave girl was considered a legitimate heir to his father.
> Furthermore, people could get out of things like fasting in exchange for
> freeing a slave so this was done frequently.
> Susan Stiles Maneck