New Yahoo Group "Ex-Baha'i" (Baha'is Welcome!)
Eric Stetson
Seeing that Nima has created a new Yahoo Group in which pro-Haifa
Baha'is and certain liberal/unenrolled Baha'is are not welcome, I
thought I would create a group in which there are no restrictions on
membership. Each group therefore has a different purpose. My group
is called Ex-Baha'i and can be found at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ex-bahai/
Ex-Baha'i group description: "Are you a Baha'i who is thinking about
becoming an EX-Baha'i? Are you an ex-Baha'i or a believer in another
religion who wants to encourage Baha'is to leave the Baha'i faith? Are
you a Baha'i who wants to encourage other Baha'is NOT to quit the
faith? If so, this group is for you! Here you can discuss whether the
Baha'i Faith is the true religion for this day or a dangerous cult...
or somewhere in-between. Help disillusioned Baha'is make the right
decision about their spiritual future, or get the help you need to
make YOUR decision from both sides of the Baha'i debate. All
viewpoints are welcome. Messages cannot be viewed by the general
public."
Although I am a Christian, the main purpose of this group is not to
promote Christianity or any other religion instead of the Baha'i
faith. But of course, Christians, Muslims, or anyone else who
believes in whatever religion is welcome to post promoting their faith
in the context of why people should leave the Baha'i faith.
I hope both ex-Baha'is and Baha'is of all varieties will join and
participate in this new Yahoo Group.
Eric Stetson
Ex-Baha'i Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ex-bahai/
Ex-Baha'i Christian Testimony
http://www.bahai-faith.com
Pat Kohli
Eric Stetson wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Seeing that Nima has created a new Yahoo Group in which pro-Haifa
> Baha'is and certain liberal/unenrolled Baha'is are not welcome, I
> thought I would create a group in which there are no restrictions on
> membership.
Nima is free to post his Baha'i related material right here, as are you,
of course.
Gee whiz, I hope you still come by here to present your versions of things
so the relevant facts can be pointed out for comparison.
Best wishes!
- Pat
kohli at ameritel.net
Paul Hammond
Well, Pat, I don't have the choice, because apparently there
are certain people Nima can't manage to debate fairly that need
to be banned for him to feel comfortable.
But, even so, I should say that a much better discussion could
be had on Eric's group than Nima's. Eric was much the better
"manifestation" in my view - if only because sincerity is so
much a necessary quality in one who would speak for God.
I wish Eric well in his new group, though I will be sticking
with the ones under the auspices of Karen Bacquet (I think,
one can join too many Baha'i-related groups)
Paul
Susan Maneck
Uh Eric, Karen already has such a group. I doubt if you could compete with it.
http://bahaistudies.net/susanmaneck/
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
http://list.jccc.net/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=bahai-st
Karen Bacquet
Susan Maneck wrote:
>>My group
>>is called Ex-Baha'i and can be found at
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ex-bahai/
>>
>
>
> Uh Eric, Karen already has such a group. I doubt if you could compete with it.
Dear Susan,
Eric already knows about Unenrolled Baha'i. As far as I'm concerned, if
other folks want to create ex-Baha'i support groups, that's just fine --
every one can have its own tone and niche. However, in the past, there
have been ex-Baha'i groups, and they tend to go dead. Unenrolled Baha'i
never has trouble attracting new members -- we're at 88 now, but
conversation very much goes in fits and starts. There are times I've
thought of chucking it, but people keep telling me just having it there
is important to them, even if it's not busy, so I hang in there. My
experience with other support groups (I've been on them for substitute
teachers, and for parents of hyperlexic children), is that they rev up
when a new person has a story to tell, and are quiet in between times.
Pat Kohli
Paul Hammond wrote:
I just figured that people could talk here, at least those who don't mind discussing the BF with
others. I think the messages come up faster for me here, than on the web; I'm on dialup.
Maybe there are some know-nothings that post here, but I don't have to read their messages, and when
others ignore them, I don't even know they are here.
Eric Stetson
I will still be hanging around TRB and contributing when I feel the
desire. It's too good a forum for me to leave!
Pat, maybe you should consider joining my new group to be a pro-Baha'i
voice among the apostates and heretics and weak in faith, valiantly
attempting to woo them back to the straight path. Then, as you say,
"the relevant facts can be pointed out for comparison." ... cough
cough ;-) There's nothing better than a vigorous yet civilized
debate. That's precisely the spirit I hope to foster on the Ex-Baha'i
Yahoo Group.
Best,
Eric
Eric Stetson
Ex-Baha'i Christian Testimony
http://www.bahai-faith.com
Ex-Baha'i Discussion & Debate
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ex-bahai/
Eric Stetson
> >My group
> >is called Ex-Baha'i and can be found at
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ex-bahai/
> >
>
> Uh Eric, Karen already has such a group. I doubt if you could compete with
> it.
I'm not trying to compete with Karen or anyone else.
Besides, Karen's group is oriented more towards helping people who
want to remain believers in Baha'u'llah without belonging to the
Baha'i Faith organization; Karen's group is moderated whereas mine is
unmoderated; and Karen's group is not so much a place for debate but
more a support group. So there are significant differences.
I envision my group as a vigorous discussion and debating forum where
people like yourself, Susan, could try to persuade some disillusioned
Baha'i to remain in the Faith while people like Nima could encourage
them to believe that the Baha'i Faith is a dangerous cult, and
somebody like me could put in a word for Jesus Christ, and a guy like
Mr. Mahdi could put in a word for Muhammad, and an Orthodox Baha'i
could put in a word for Joel Marangella's claims, and various
ex-Baha'is could share their stories and compare notes with the new
person. That's not really the same thing as what Karen's Unenrolled
Baha'i group is all about.
Best,
Eric
Eric Stetson
Ex-Baha'i Christian Testimony
http://www.bahai-faith.com
Freethought110
- if only because sincerity is so
> much a necessary quality in one who would speak for God.
Muhammad and Baha'u'llah would disqualify, in that case.
Freethought110
> Well, Pat, I don't have the choice, because apparently there
> are certain people Nima can't manage to debate fairly that need
> to be banned for him to feel comfortable.
I've banned you for more than obvious reasons: a) you are an
unmitigated asshole, b) you are an unashamed sycophant and c) you are
a mole for the Haifan AO masquerading as an atheist unenrolled/liberal
sympathizer. Furthermore, my primary aim with the new Zuhur19 is to
expose baha'ism as a cult to non-baha'is. I have no intention of
debating with baha'i-hangers on who think they have fooled people with
their transparent protestations that they don't belong to the cult.
Eric Stetson
> in the past, there
> have been ex-Baha'i groups, and they tend to go dead.
One exception to that is the group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exbahais/ At the time I put a link to
it on my Ex-Baha'i Christian Testimony homepage several months ago, I
believe it had about 35 members. Now it's up over 60. I know at
least some of those people found out about it through my website
because they said so. Not surprising, since
http://www.bahai-faith.com has been averaging 50+ hits per day (and
since the Kelly suicide up to 100-250 hits/day).
> Unenrolled Baha'i never has trouble attracting new members -- we're at 88 now,
May it ever continue growing!
> conversation very much goes in fits and starts. There are times I've
> thought of chucking it, but people keep telling me just having it there
> is important to them, even if it's not busy, so I hang in there.
Don't chuck it! -- who cares if the conversation isn't always busy.
The point is, there ought to be such a place for people to go whenever
somebody needs it. And I'm sure as time goes on, more and more people
will be needing it. If you're tired of it, perhaps you could just
post there less frequently.
Best,
Eric
Eric Stetson
Ex-Baha'i Christian Testimony
http://www.bahai-faith.com
Karen Bacquet
Eric Stetson wrote:
> Karen Bacquet <bac...@tco.net> wrote in message news:<3F259935...@tco.net>...
>
>>in the past, there
>>have been ex-Baha'i groups, and they tend to go dead.
>
>
> One exception to that is the group at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exbahais/ At the time I put a link to
> it on my Ex-Baha'i Christian Testimony homepage several months ago, I
> believe it had about 35 members. Now it's up over 60. I know at
> least some of those people found out about it through my website
> because they said so. Not surprising, since
> http://www.bahai-faith.com has been averaging 50+ hits per day (and
> since the Kelly suicide up to 100-250 hits/day)
Dear Eric,
I used to subscribe a long time ago, then left during one of my "I'd
better cut back on the Internet" phases. My website has been getting
more hits, too, since David Kelly's death. People are checking things out.
.
>
>
>>Unenrolled Baha'i never has trouble attracting new members -- we're at 88 now,
>
>
> May it ever continue growing!
Thank you -- good luck with your list, too. I may stop by to check it
out. :-)
>
>
>>conversation very much goes in fits and starts. There are times I've
>>thought of chucking it, but people keep telling me just having it there
>>is important to them, even if it's not busy, so I hang in there.
>
>
> Don't chuck it! -- who cares if the conversation isn't always busy.
> The point is, there ought to be such a place for people to go whenever
> somebody needs it. And I'm sure as time goes on, more and more people
> will be needing it. If you're tired of it, perhaps you could just
> post there less frequently.
Well, what I found is that I can't keep conversation going on all by
myself -- and sometimes I just feel like I'm just posting to say "There,
there, it'll get better". I like your idea of having all sides -- I
really try hard to make make sure I don't push anybody in any particular
direction. Ultimately, it's an individual decision what people decide
to do about their relationship to the Faith. Of course, I originally
set up UB to definitely *not* be a debating list, of which we have quite
a few. I didn't want AO-defenders pouncing on people and telling them
it's all in their heads because the Faith is just peachy-keen; it's
supposed to be a safe space.
I floated the idea on Beliefnet of starting a Baha'i women's list, but
I'm not sure how that would work. If I want a list with enough
subscribers to make it fly, it would *have* to allow all sides. Might
not allow men, though. :-) However, I'm going to chew on the idea for a
while -- as anybody who has run a list knows, it can be a huge headache
at times. Having a clear vision ahead of time for what you want really
helps avoid problems.
Good luck with your list!
Love, Karen
http://www.bacquet.tk
Susan Maneck
>I envision my group as a vigorous discussion and debating forum where
>people like yourself, Susan, could try to persuade some disillusioned
>Baha'i to remain in the Faith while people like Nima could encourage
>them to believe that the Baha'i Faith is a dangerous cult, and
>somebody like me could put in a word for Jesus Christ, and a guy like
>Mr. Mahdi could put in a word for Muhammad, and an Orthodox Baha'i
>could put in a word for Joel Marangella's claims, and various
>ex-Baha'is could share their stories and compare notes with the new
>person.
And this is different from TRB how?
Mr Mahdi
>expose baha'ism as a cult to non-baha'is.
Would you mind in signing me up on your new group? I do enjoy the pleasures of
exposing bahaism and presenting the proof that it is a fraud to the whole
world.
Mahdi Muhammad
Paul Hammond
My protestations might well be transparent (you think that's
a criticism? I mean my posts to be understood, so I'll take
it as a compliment), but they also happen to be true.
Everyone can see that the true reason why you have banned
some people from your group is that there are just some
arguments you can't handle.
Paul
Eric Stetson
> >
> >I envision my group as a vigorous discussion and debating forum where
> >people like yourself, Susan, could try to persuade some disillusioned
> >Baha'i to remain in the Faith while people like Nima could encourage
> >them to believe that the Baha'i Faith is a dangerous cult, and
> >somebody like me could put in a word for Jesus Christ, and a guy like
> >Mr. Mahdi could put in a word for Muhammad, and an Orthodox Baha'i
> >could put in a word for Joel Marangella's claims, and various
> >ex-Baha'is could share their stories and compare notes with the new
> >person.
>
> And this is different from TRB how?
The difference is twofold: (1) TRB has public archives on Google.
Many people do not want what they write about sensitive religious
subjects to be available for all the world to see. Therefore my group
is a members-only forum. (2) TRB is primarily intended for Baha'is,
not ex-Baha'is. There are a few ex-Baha'is here, but the overall
purpose of the newsgroup is to discuss the Baha'i faith. My group, on
the other hand, is primarily oriented towards people who are
ex-Baha'is or questioning their faith. The assumption over at
Ex-Baha'i Discussion & Debate is that the majority of people there are
not going to be actively practicing Baha'is. So a lot of the stuff
that gets discussed on TRB would be off-topic over there. My group
has a very focused purpose. Part of that purpose, for example, which
is mostly off-topic here on TRB is helping ex-Baha'is find a new
spiritual path after they have already moved on from the Baha'i faith.
Paul Hammond
> My group, on
> the other hand, is primarily oriented towards people who are
> ex-Baha'is or questioning their faith. The assumption over at
> Ex-Baha'i Discussion & Debate is that the majority of people there are
> not going to be actively practicing Baha'is.
Eric,
Nima has promoted his group on another list, and he called
your Ex-Bahai group his "sister list".
Does he have your permission to characterise your
group this way?
Paul
Cal E. Rollins
Why should Nima need Eric's permission to call his group a "sister'
group? Did the Bab ask Baha'u'llah's permission to call Himself the
Maid of Heaven created by Baha? If He did, where is the Tablet asking
permission? Just because Nima and Eric aren't prophets any longer
shouldn't matter in this regard, in my opinion. --Cal
Eric Stetson
Yeah, it's fine with me. The two groups are different in important
ways but they have complementary purposes, hence they can be
considered sister lists. There are a lot of things Nima says and
believes that I don't agree with, and the two of us have very
different personal styles -- but that's okay. Nima may be hated by a
lot of people, but I don't believe I should be prejudiced against
whatever he does just because of that. I think Nima is doing a good
thing by creating his list, so long as people realize what its purpose
is. I understand his list to be primarily a place for people who are
truly anti-Baha'i. My list is for a broader audience and I'm sure it
will have a somewhat different tone. I am hoping that his list will
serve its function admirably.
Best,
Eric
Eric Stetson
Ex-Baha'i Christian Testimony
http://www.bahai-faith.com
Ex-Baha'i Discussion & Debate
Pat Kohli
Eric Stetson wrote:
> Pat Kohli <kohliCUT...@ameritel.net> wrote in message news:<3F247654...@ameritel.net>...
> > Eric Stetson wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > Seeing that Nima has created a new Yahoo Group in which pro-Haifa
> > > Baha'is and certain liberal/unenrolled Baha'is are not welcome, I
> > > thought I would create a group in which there are no restrictions on
> > > membership.
> >
> > Nima is free to post his Baha'i related material right here, as are you,
> > of course.
> >
> > Gee whiz, I hope you still come by here to present your versions of things
> > so the relevant facts can be pointed out for comparison.
>
> I will still be hanging around TRB and contributing when I feel the
> desire. It's too good a forum for me to leave!
>
Great.
>
> Pat, maybe you should consider joining my new group to be a pro-Baha'i
> voice among the apostates and heretics and weak in faith, valiantly
> attempting to woo them back to the straight path.
I don't think I fit into the previous description. If people want out, let 'em go. Look at Errol,
Darrick, Nima, Robert Arvay; they were all enrolled at one time or another, and they all resigned. If
someone had wooed them back in, that would just make a problem for the BF, as far as I can see.
Point out the facts and let the chips fall where they may.
> Then, as you say,
> "the relevant facts can be pointed out for comparison." ... cough
> cough ;-)
A little bit of bed rest, and some orange juice and chicken soup, and you'll be right as rain,
Christian.
> There's nothing better than a vigorous yet civilized
> debate. That's precisely the spirit I hope to foster on the Ex-Baha'i
> Yahoo Group.
Best wishes!
Pat Kohli
Eric Stetson wrote:
> sma...@aol.com (Susan Maneck ) wrote in message news:<20030728164814...@mb-m21.aol.com>...
> > >My group
> > >is called Ex-Baha'i and can be found at
> > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ex-bahai/
> > >
> >
> > Uh Eric, Karen already has such a group. I doubt if you could compete with
> > it.
>
> I'm not trying to compete with Karen or anyone else.
>
> Besides, Karen's group is oriented more towards helping people who
> want to remain believers in Baha'u'llah without belonging to the
> Baha'i Faith organization; Karen's group is moderated whereas mine is
> unmoderated; and Karen's group is not so much a place for debate but
> more a support group. So there are significant differences.
>
> I envision my group as a vigorous discussion and debating forum where
> people like yourself, Susan, could try to persuade some disillusioned
> Baha'i to remain in the Faith while people like Nima could encourage
> them to believe that the Baha'i Faith is a dangerous cult, and
> somebody like me could put in a word for Jesus Christ, and a guy like
> Mr. Mahdi could put in a word for Muhammad, and an Orthodox Baha'i
> could put in a word for Joel Marangella's claims, and various
> ex-Baha'is could share their stories and compare notes with the new
> person. That's not really the same thing as what Karen's Unenrolled
> Baha'i group is all about.
You can do all that right here, though. If I didn't know better (sorry old timers, but I can't resist the
pun), I'd say it is deja vu all over again, but on google for the NNTP-challenged.
Pat Kohli
Eric Stetson wrote:
> sma...@aol.com (Susan Maneck ) wrote in message news:<20030729011408...@mb-m19.aol.com>...
> > >
> > >I envision my group as a vigorous discussion and debating forum where
> > >people like yourself, Susan, could try to persuade some disillusioned
> > >Baha'i to remain in the Faith while people like Nima could encourage
> > >them to believe that the Baha'i Faith is a dangerous cult, and
> > >somebody like me could put in a word for Jesus Christ, and a guy like
> > >Mr. Mahdi could put in a word for Muhammad, and an Orthodox Baha'i
> > >could put in a word for Joel Marangella's claims, and various
> > >ex-Baha'is could share their stories and compare notes with the new
> > >person.
> >
> > And this is different from TRB how?
>
> The difference is twofold: (1) TRB has public archives on Google.
Actually, it is the other way: google reads TRB out to the web, but the effect is the same.
>
> Many people do not want what they write about sensitive religious
> subjects to be available for all the world to see. Therefore my group
> is a members-only forum.
There is a work-around for that, the no-archive option.
> (2) TRB is primarily intended for Baha'is,
> not ex-Baha'is.
Not at all. The group was chartered for discussions of the BF, irrespective of the beliefs, and creeds of
the participants. It is only certain parties, one ex-Baha'i I can think of, who seem to think the place is
some sort of social club for them to post various politically controversial (or politically incorrect)
views, apparently to spark some discussion as an avenue for their Zionist-Bush agenda.
> There are a few ex-Baha'is here,
The resignees who frequent the place, include you, Darrick, Nima, Dermod, Errol9, Starr/JoBeth/Claudia,
Robert Arvay, possibly Qisqos - he has not said that much under the handle. A lot of the messages posted
here are from these people.
> but the overall
> purpose of the newsgroup is to discuss the Baha'i faith.
Yes, pros and cons, though. One would hope that there could be room for your 'comparison shopping'
approach?
> My group, on
> the other hand, is primarily oriented towards people who are
> ex-Baha'is or questioning their faith. The assumption over at
> Ex-Baha'i Discussion & Debate is that the majority of people there are
> not going to be actively practicing Baha'is. So a lot of the stuff
> that gets discussed on TRB would be off-topic over there.
The off-topic stuff here would be off topic there. Anything else you can think of?
> My group
> has a very focused purpose. Part of that purpose, for example, which
> is mostly off-topic here on TRB is helping ex-Baha'is find a new
> spiritual path after they have already moved on from the Baha'i faith.
Well, when you figure it out, please do post it here. I had thought you were inviting a diverse set of
perspectives.
Best wishes and good luck!
Freethought110
> some people from your group is that there are just some
> arguments you can't handle.
Ya think? I haven't banned Dermod who can throw the same arguments
with better gusto than you. I have banned you, your head mistress, the
stupid ex-Communist Slovakian commissar, St Alison the (un)wronged one
and her husband because I detest your lot and your conflicted baha'i
ideology.
Freethought110
> Paul,
>
> Why should Nima need Eric's permission to call his group a "sister'
> group?
Because in Paul's skewed limey school-master worldview (which is very
baha'i, btw) one needs "permission" to do anything.
Freethought110
> group this way?
You are truly a sad, sad case.
Freethought110
Never be fooled by appearances, and especially the false politeness of
some of these people. This time last year these very same people
(particularly Karen) where bad-mouthing you and calling you a lunatic
and nutcase, spewing hatred that is usually reserved for the powers
that be. Today I am their pinata of choice. This goes to show that
there is not an appreciable difference between either of the loyalist
camps in selective implimentation of hatred. I am an apostate to both
fundamentalists and liberals: to fundamentalists because I publically
resigned and have not ceased making a fuss; to liberals because I
exposed them publically as being no different than the fundamentalists
whom they decry. Hatred - as you have noticed - is part and parcel of
baha'i culture of all hues and colors. The liberals are no different
in this regard, and neither was their prophet.
erics...@yahoo.com (Eric Stetson) wrote in message
> Yeah, it's fine with me. The two groups are different in important
Paul Hammond
> Hatred - as you have noticed - is part and parcel of
> baha'i culture of all hues and colors. The liberals are no different
> in this regard, and neither was their prophet.
>
Nima, you vacated this particular moral high ground years
ago.
No-one can beat *you* for spewing hatred.
My question to Eric was as to whether you had sought his
permission before charactising your group and his as essentially
parts of the same operation in such a misleading fashion.
Paul
Paul Hammond
What do you think about the way he promoted his list by
including a list of named people that he was excluding?
Nima is just like the playground bully, and I suggest
you think twice about allowing him to associate his
name with yours.
Paul
Paul Hammond
Because, Eric's Ex-Baha'i group is *his* group, and Eric
did not in fact set it up in consultation with Nima.
Hence, Nima's presenting the two groups in this way
is essentially a lie.
Paul
Paul Hammond
That's why you are so scared to debate me, huh?
Eric Stetson
I wouldn't have done it that way, but he has a right to promote his
list in whatever way he wants. Obviously, Nima has very strong
feelings against certain people. Nima is a controversial guy, and he
is very blunt in saying what he thinks. People who don't like him can
just ignore him. I don't have to share your hatred of him, nor do I
have to agree with everything he says and does. If that means both
you and Nima will think less of me, then so be it. I am not going to
takes sides in such personal disputes. I choose to focus my attention
on ideas rather than personalities.
> Nima is just like the playground bully, and I suggest
> you think twice about allowing him to associate his
> name with yours.
Nima can praise and promote the work of whomever he wants. I look at
people as free individuals, and if somebody likes something I'm doing,
I have no problem with that person saying so publicly. They have a
right to say it, no matter who they are. I hope people will judge me
on what *I* say and do, and nothing else.
Best,
Eric
Eric Stetson
Ex-Baha'i Christian Testimony
http://www.bahai-faith.com
Ex-Baha'i Discussion & Debate
Pat Kohli
Paul Hammond wrote:
> erics...@yahoo.com (Eric Stetson) wrote in message news:<f581312e.03072...@posting.google.com>...
> > paha...@onetel.net.uk (Paul Hammond) wrote in message
(snip)
>
> >
> > Yeah, it's fine with me. The two groups are different in important
> > ways but they have complementary purposes, hence they can be
> > considered sister lists. There are a lot of things Nima says and
> > believes that I don't agree with, and the two of us have very
> > different personal styles -- but that's okay. Nima may be hated by a
> > lot of people, but I don't believe I should be prejudiced against
> > whatever he does just because of that. I think Nima is doing a good
> > thing by creating his list, so long as people realize what its purpose
> > is. I understand his list to be primarily a place for people who are
> > truly anti-Baha'i. My list is for a broader audience and I'm sure it
> > will have a somewhat different tone. I am hoping that his list will
> > serve its function admirably.
> >
> > Best,
> > Eric
> >
>
> What do you think about the way he promoted his list by
> including a list of named people that he was excluding?
>
> Nima is just like the playground bully, and I suggest
> you think twice about allowing him to associate his
> name with yours.
I'm picturing Good Cop / Bad Cop. One is pleasant. One is well read. One is tactful. One is very experienced on
TRB. The readers of the groups will sort it out in time. I'm thinking about five seconds, or so. I know you meant
well; I think Eric knows you mean well, too.
Best wishes
MOST@btinternet.com Dermod Ryder
"Freethought110" <freetho...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:83b59396.03072...@posting.google.com...
Why Good Sir, I thank you for that compliment to me venomous pen. But, sad
to relate, banned or not, I'll not be joining any more Bahai oriented lists
or groups. Of whatever ilk, sect or persuasion those interested in this
rather sad cult are prone to the obnoxious practice of shunning those whose
views are not strictly in accord with their respective orthodoxies. There
is, alas and alack, but one place in the whole of Bahai related cyberspace
where free speech reigns in all of its glory and that is here on TRB.
But even here in this most wondrous place are there to be found signs of
that miserable practice. For Haifan speaketh not unto Guardianist, Nimaist
speaketh not unto Karenist, Errolist tradeth insult with Paulist and,
gadzooks, even Me Eminence the Reaper hath been assigned the hellfire of
silence by Bobalong's Brat, the Queen of Plagiarism, though, truth will out,
she cannot resist a peek at me words for, within, is all wisdom. That might
adequately explain why the dreadful creature hath consigned me to her Too
Difficult File for she hath not the wherewithal to challenge the pearls of
wisdom that unceasingly flow from me pen.
All Hail to the Queen of TRB (DST and bar) ..... and snow, sleet, wind,
rain, typhoon, hurricane and any other misfortune you can devise!
Freethought110
Debate you on what? You are an A class intellectual door-knob. That I
despise you and see right through you for what you are has nothing to
do with fear.
Freethought110
> freetho...@yahoo.com (Freethought110) wrote in message news:<83b59396.03072...@posting.google.com>...
>
> > Hatred - as you have noticed - is part and parcel of
> > baha'i culture of all hues and colors. The liberals are no different
> > in this regard, and neither was their prophet.
> >
>
> Nima, you vacated this particular moral high ground years
> ago.
Since you weren't in baha'i cyberspace *years ago*, how can you
comment on years ago, unless you are a mole who has been monitoring
baha'i cyberspace for lot longer than the handle Paul Hammond?? As for
vacating the moral high ground, bar none, bvno one can compete with
you cultists - no one!
> No-one can beat *you* for spewing hatred.
You and your friends are masters of spewing hatred, and you are a gold
medalist in that regard.
Freethought110
Since I never said "same operation" (but sister list), and Eric has
also but Zuhur19 has ex-baha'is sister list, and given that he has set
the record straight (not that it needed any straightening), don't you
feel stupid now.
More and more your particular modus operandi of nastiness looks like
Dr Maniacs. Amazing!
Freethought110
Mountain out of mole hills in order to score points as Hammond has an
agenda. Eric has set you straight. I said ex-bahai was sister list to
Zuhur19; Eric has told you the same, and has put Zuhur19 as his sister
list. Pray tell, where's the lie and incorrect characterization,
asshole?
Paul Hammond
Noo! You're not *at all* scared of me.
That's why you have to specifically name me as
someone excluded from your list, because you have yet
to get the better of me in any debate, resorting to
such tactics as throwing me off your list because you
don't like what I'm saying.
Truth hurts, so they say.
Paul
Paul Hammond
Because it is *Eric's* group, not yours, and Eric has the
right to say whether or not he considers his group, in
any manner, to be associated with yours.
How would you react if Susan set up a new pro-Baha'i group
and called it a "sister group" to your New!Zuhur?
How about if Prof Cole went around saying that New!Zuhur
was a sister group to Talisman9?
Would they have a perfect right to do this without
your permission?
I think rather that you would be screaming blue murder
before the bits hit the net.
Paul
Paul Hammond
> paha...@onetel.net.uk (Paul Hammond) wrote in message news:<c977f97b.03073...@posting.google.com>...
> > freetho...@yahoo.com (Freethought110) wrote in message news:<83b59396.03072...@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > > Hatred - as you have noticed - is part and parcel of
> > > baha'i culture of all hues and colors. The liberals are no different
> > > in this regard, and neither was their prophet.
> > >
> >
> > Nima, you vacated this particular moral high ground years
> > ago.
>
> Since you weren't in baha'i cyberspace *years ago*, how can you
> comment on years ago, unless you are a mole who has been monitoring
> baha'i cyberspace for lot longer than the handle Paul Hammond??
I've been in Baha'i cyberspace since I got my net connection
in 2001, you dumb git. I only ever post as "Paul Hammond", Mr
dictator.
As for
> vacating the moral high ground, bar none, bvno one can compete with
> you cultists - no one!
>
> > No-one can beat *you* for spewing hatred.
>
>
> You and your friends are masters of spewing hatred, and you are a gold
> medalist in that regard.
Paul
Paul Hammond
I know what Eric is trying to do. Can't see it working, though.
We've given him fair warning, he'll find out for himself.
Nima *used* to be friends with Karen, Alex and Alison too,
my companions on the Zuhur19 shit list,
and Star Saffa, who ain't been seen around these parts since
Nima dumped all over her. Oh yeah, Dermod also is an ex
friend, cut off at the knees by the holy one for refusing to
join his recent anti-Paul campaign.
He traded all these old friends in for his auld enemy,
Errol. I can't say as that says much for his taste!
Paul
Freethought110
>
> We've given him fair warning, he'll find out for himself.
>
> Nima *used* to be friends with Karen, Alex and Alison too,
> my companions on the Zuhur19 shit list,
> and Star Saffa, who ain't been seen around these parts since
> Nima dumped all over her. Oh yeah, Dermod also is an ex
> friend, cut off at the knees by the holy one for refusing to
> join his recent anti-Paul campaign.
>
> He traded all these old friends in for his auld enemy,
> Errol. I can't say as that says much for his taste!
>
> Paul
LOL :))) Hahaha, my the story changes!! Or maybe it bothers you and
your masters in Haifa that a new (and more potent) opposition is
grouping and leaving the infiltrated old (now defunct and totally
infiltrated) opposition completely by the way side.
Freethought110
> Noo! You're not *at all* scared of me.
You wish. You're a nobody, Paulette. Not someone worth debating, in any case.
> That's why you have to specifically name me as
> someone excluded from your list, because you have yet
> to get the better of me in any debate,
I have already wiped the floor with you.
> Truth hurts, so they say.
Yep, for Twilight Zone inhabitants of cult-zone like you, absolutely.
Freethought110
> Because it is *Eric's* group, not yours, and Eric has the
> right to say whether or not he considers his group, in
> any manner, to be associated with yours.
Grasping at straws, eh Paul? Eric has already set you straight. Pray
tell, why is this such an issue with you?? Here's the description of
Eric's list and then mine:
Are you a Baha'i who is thinking about becoming an EX-Baha'i? Are you
an ex-Baha'i or a believer in another religion who wants to encourage
Baha'is to leave the Baha'i faith? Are you a Baha'i who wants to
encourage other Baha'is NOT to quit the faith? If so, this group is
for you! Here you can discuss whether the Baha'i Faith is the true
religion for this day or a dangerous cult... or somewhere in-between.
Help disillusioned Baha'is make the right decision about their
spiritual future, or get the help you need to make YOUR decision from
both sides of the Baha'i debate. All viewpoints are welcome. Messages
cannot be viewed by the general public. This list was created in
response to suggestions on exba...@yahoogroups.com for a members-only
forum. It is also a sister list to Zuh...@yahoogroups.com
And now mine:
Zuhur19 is a private discussion group for ex-Baha'is and those
considering leaving the Baha'i faith, and others interested. This list
is dedicated to examination of the questionable beliefs and practices
of the Haifa-based Baha'i organization, including the issue of whether
it qualifies as a cult in the league of Scientology, the Jehovah's
Witnesses, the Unification Church and other similar authoritarian
mind-control new religious movements. This list is also intended as a
support group for people who are losing their faith in Baha'ism or
have experienced harsh treatment by Baha'is and Baha'i institutions,
and for those who are seeking a new spiritual path after a bad
experience with the Baha'i Faith, or none at all. The list is open to
all disenchanted Baha'is and ex-Baha'is who no longer believe in
either Haifan/Remeyite Baha'ism nor buy into the reformist platitudes
of the liberal/unenrolled Haifan loyalist left faction. The list
succeeds the original Zuhur19 and is a sister list to Eric Stetson's
ex-b...@yahoogroups.com
> How would you react if Susan set up a new pro-Baha'i group
> and called it a "sister group" to your New!Zuhur?
>
> How about if Prof Cole went around saying that New!Zuhur
> was a sister group to Talisman9?
>
> Would they have a perfect right to do this without
> your permission?
>
> I think rather that you would be screaming blue murder
> before the bits hit the net.
Irrelevent bullshit, given the facts. I believe the bottom line is
that you are irked to no end that a new opposition (and far more
potent opposition than the woosy liberals) is regrouping, thus your
grasping at mountainous-mole-hill straws. Your masters in Haifa
thought by inflitrating you into the liberal camp and driving wedges
between the old opposition, and throwing me out, that would be all she
wrote. They and you miscalculated - gravely!
Freethought110
> I've been in Baha'i cyberspace since I got my net connection
> in 2001, you dumb git.
Really? Then why did you insist that you were around during the Al
Marbig episode, which was in 2000. Can't keep your story straight
anymore, eh mole?
>I only ever post as "Paul Hammond", Mr
> dictator.
Bullshit! Btw, the only bona fide dictators here are the people you
report back to in Haifa.
Freethought110
> someone excluded from your list,
I despise you personally and see right through you for who and what
you are. That is why you have been banned.
Freethought110
> I think rather that you would be screaming blue murder
> before the bits hit the net.
You are truly grasping at straws in your transparent axe grinding
crusade. How's this for your blue murder theory?
"Are you a Baha'i who is thinking about becoming an EX-Baha'i? Are you
an ex-Baha'i or a believer in another religion who wants to encourage
Baha'is to leave the Baha'i faith? Are you a Baha'i who wants to
encourage other Baha'is NOT to quit the faith? If so, this group is
for you! Here you can discuss whether the Baha'i Faith is the true
religion for this day or a dangerous cult... or somewhere in-between.
Help disillusioned Baha'is make the right decision about their
spiritual future, or get the help you need to make YOUR decision from
both sides of the Baha'i debate. All viewpoints are welcome. Messages
cannot be viewed by the general public. This list was created in
response to suggestions on exba...@yahoogroups.com for a members-only
forum. __***It is also a sister list to Zuh...@yahoogroups.com***_
This is also a lie, correct; I *actually* twisted Eric's arm for him
to put the last line in his group's description. Or, better yet, maybe
there is no such person as Eric Stetson. I concocted the character all
by myself!
Egg on your face, or what, limey jackass! LOL :))
Freethought110
friends.
paha...@onetel.net.uk (Paul Hammond) wrote in message
> Nima is just like the playground bully, and I suggest
> you think twice about allowing him to associate his
> name with yours.
THE BAHA'I TECHNIQUE- Ad Hominem, Libel, Slander, Demonize, Scapegoat,
Ostracize, Shun, Banish, Backbite, Defame, Vilify, Discredit, Smear,
Revile, Suppress, Attack, Bully, Intimidate, Threaten, Malign,
Blackball,
Coerce, Silence, Harass... etc., etc....
"Political discussion [of entrenched power] possesses a character
fundamentally different from academic discussion. It seeks not only to
be in the right but also to demolish the basis of the opponent's
social and intellectual existence. . .Political conflict, since it is
from the very beginning a rationalized form of the struggle for social
predominance, attacks the social status of the opponent, his public
prestige, and his self-confidence" (Karl Mannheim, IDEOLOGY AND
UTOPIA, p. 38).
Freethought110
> Paul,
>
> Why should Nima need Eric's permission to call his group a "sister'
> group?
Because it bothers Paul, and his jealousy (and the spite of his
masters in Haifa) waxeth crimson at the prospect of a newly emerging
unified opposition.
Pat Kohli
Paul Hammond wrote:
> (snip)
> >
> > I'm picturing Good Cop / Bad Cop. One is pleasant. One is well read. One is tactful. One is very experienced on
> > TRB. The readers of the groups will sort it out in time. I'm thinking about five seconds, or so. I know you meant
> > well; I think Eric knows you mean well, too.
> >
> >
>
> I know what Eric is trying to do. Can't see it working, though.
>
> We've given him fair warning, he'll find out for himself.
>
> Nima *used* to be friends with Karen, Alex and Alison too,
> my companions on the Zuhur19 shit list,
> and Star Saffa, who ain't been seen around these parts since
> Nima dumped all over her. Oh yeah, Dermod also is an ex
> friend, cut off at the knees by the holy one for refusing to
> join his recent anti-Paul campaign.
>
> He traded all these old friends in for his auld enemy,
> Errol. I can't say as that says much for his taste!
>
As you may have heard, on this side of the pond, we forgot the proper rules for Cricket, so, we've got this game like it,
called baseball. Some years back the Boston club sold the contract for Babe Ruth, a famous player of bygone years, to
their rivals, the New York Yankees. More recently, George W. Bush (same one), owner of a baseball team in Texas, traded
Sammy Sousa, a powerful hitter of home runs, to the Chicago Cubs. I was thinking along the lines of some really
remarkably poor trades, as you can see.
I considered Nima my friend, too. I don't think he traded me for HWNWNBM, though; I think I got dumped well before, like
Steve Marshall.
Best wishes!
Sekhmet
>You wish. You're a nobody, Paulette. Not someone worth debating,
>in any case.
Which is why you just replied to him eight times in the space of about 45
minutes, in this thread alone. Right?
--Sekhmet
Sekhmet
>Ostracize, Shun, Banish, Backbite, Defame, Vilify, Discredit, Smear,
>Revile, Suppress, Attack, Bully, Intimidate, Threaten, Malign,
>Blackball,
>Coerce, Silence, Harass... etc., etc....
(shame on me, but I've been dying to say that for a long time...)
Freethought110
Since you have issues, perhaps its time to go see your shrink.
Freethought110
The issue was "debating" not *replying*, dumbass!
Sekhmet
>The NIMA TECHNIQUE- Ad Hominem, Libel, Slander, Demonize, Scapegoat,
They're your issues (and Fred's). I don't have a shrink, so there's nobody I
can recommend, but perhaps a good one could help you learn to face yourself so
you'll feel less need to project your own faults onto others.
--Sekhmet
Sekhmet
>Sekhm...@aol.com.nz (Sekhmet) wrote in message
And in your replies you were doing what, exactly, if not debating? I'm not
saying it was _good_ debating, you understand, but it sure looked like debating
to me!
--Sekhmet
errol9
freetho...@yahoo.com wrote on 31/7/03 11:56 pm:
Paul is frightened of Pat the Netiquette Nazi.
Paul Hammond
Error, you are doing no better at reading my mind than
you are at reading Dr Kelly's.
Paul
Paul Hammond
Nima,
You are the one who is now irrelevant, having sacrificed
your credibility on the altar of your ego.
*My* story never changes. I never claimed to be the new
Manifestation of God.
Paul Hammond
>
> > I've been in Baha'i cyberspace since I got my net connection
> > in 2001, you dumb git.
>
> Really? Then why did you insist that you were around during the Al
> Marbig episode, which was in 2000. Can't keep your story straight
> anymore, eh mole?
>
You're wrong, Nima. The Al Marbig episode I was talking
about happened when Pat sent private emails around
encouraging everyone to claim to be Al Marbig. Pat has
already sent the links from google showing that I
was around then.
Perhaps my memory is faulty - I may have got my connection
in October 2000, but it was during the *academic* year
2000/2001.
Freethought110
No, it's not your memory. It your *story* which is faulty.
Freethought110
> You are the one who is now irrelevant, having sacrificed
> your credibility on the altar of your ego.
Says you and your fellow cultists in crime. You don't constitute the
rest of the world, and we will see who has more credibility.
> *My* story never changes. I never claimed to be the new
> Manifestation of God.
Big deal! If you're a bona fide atheist, this would be totally
meaningless to you, in any case.
Freethought110
> Nima wrote:
> >Sekhm...@aol.com.nz (Sekhmet) wrote in message
> news:<20030731221130...@mb-m17.aol.com>...
> >> Nima wrote:
> >> >You wish. You're a nobody, Paulette. Not someone worth debating,
> >> >in any case.
> >>
> >> Which is why you just replied to him eight times in the space of about
> 45
> >> minutes, in this thread alone. Right?
> >>
> >> --Sekhmet
> >
> >The issue was "debating" not *replying*, dumbass!
>
> And in your replies you were doing what, exactly, if not debating?
It was replying to a post. If I *really* wanted to debate you or your
chums, I would be wiping the floor with all of you - again!
> I'm not
> saying it was _good_ debating, you understand, but it sure looked like debating
> to me!
Cuz you don't know debating from your ass.
Sekhmet
> I would be wiping the floor with all of you - again!
"Again"?
I'm still waiting for you to do it once!
--Sekhmet
Paul Hammond
Me too.
When are you gonna put up a decent fight, Nima?
Paul
Freethought110
You must have parkinsons disease or suffer from the baha'i malady of
selective memory. I have wiped the floor with *you* numerous times as
well as with your comrades in the covenant.
Freethought110
Pot, kettle, black! You are the cultist -- not I. Go see your shrink.
Freethought110
Can't fight your own battles and have to hide behind Sick Mut's skirt, eh Paul?
Freethought110
> Steve Marshall.
I dumped you when it became clear to me that you are a Maneck crony.
While you were pleading with me not to post the uhj's letter to Tony
Lee, once it was posted your lil'song and dance in justfying it proved
to me you are a cultist just like Maneck and therefore not to be
trusted.
Sekhmet
>Pot, kettle, black! You are the cultist -- not I.
Naaah... you used to post that "What is a cult?" thing every once in a while,
and I always thought it suited you to a T! Except one needs to have charisma in
order to be a charismatic leader, and you don't seem to do very well in that
regard.
>Go see your shrink.
What shrink? Never needed one, and don't need one now.
--Sekhmet
Sekhmet
>You must have parkinsons disease
Parkinsons? I don't think so; you must be confusing that with some other
malady, like, uh... I can't remember... starts with an "A" and is sometimes
treated with ginkoba...
>or suffer from the baha'i malady of
>selective memory. I have wiped the floor with *you* numerous times as
>well as with your comrades in the covenant.
Gosh, maybe it would refresh my memory if you could could scrounge up a few
examples. Note: tossing out a raft of insults and claiming you've won when
somebody has just soundly demolished your argument doesn't count!
--Sekhmet
Paul Hammond
> Nima wrote:
> >You must have parkinsons disease
>
> Parkinsons? I don't think so; you must be confusing that with some other
> malady, like, uh... I can't remember... starts with an "A" and is sometimes
> treated with ginkoba...
>
well spotted!
> >or suffer from the baha'i malady of
> >selective memory. I have wiped the floor with *you* numerous times as
> >well as with your comrades in the covenant.
>
> Gosh, maybe it would refresh my memory if you could could scrounge up a few
> examples. Note: tossing out a raft of insults and claiming you've won when
> somebody has just soundly demolished your argument doesn't count!
>
> --Sekhmet
Poor dear boy. hasn't got a *clue* about what debating is, has he?
Seems to think it's all a matter of coming up with the
most killer personal insult.
Sure, it can't have anything to do with making logical
arguments and connections, and providing anything in the
way of *evidence* can it?
Just call someone s pub-oirish joker, and declare
yourself the winner!
Iranians!
Paul
Freethought110
> Poor dear boy. hasn't got a *clue* about what debating is, has he?
Neither do you, door-knob.
> Seems to think it's all a matter of coming up with the
> most killer personal insult.
With cultist liars such as you, that is all that you deserve.
> Sure, it can't have anything to do with making logical
> arguments and connections, and providing anything in the
> way of *evidence* can it?
Blow out your k hole, limey.
> Just call someone s pub-oirish joker, and declare
> yourself the winner!
>
> Iranians!
Much nobler a nation and people than the nation of racist limey dip-shits.
Freethought110
> Nima wrote:
> >You must have parkinsons disease
>
> Parkinsons? I don't think so; you must be confusing that with some other
> malady, like, uh... I can't remember... starts with an "A" and is sometimes
> treated with ginkoba...
>
> >or suffer from the baha'i malady of
> >selective memory. I have wiped the floor with *you* numerous times as
> >well as with your comrades in the covenant.
>
> Gosh, maybe it would refresh my memory if you could could scrounge up a few
> examples.
I wiped the floor with you on NITV, lest you forgot. Like I said,
selective memory is a terminal disease with baha'is.
Freethought110
> Nima wrote:
> >Pot, kettle, black! You are the cultist -- not I.
>
> Naaah... you used to post that "What is a cult?" thing every once in a while,
> and I always thought it suited you to a T!
Card-carrying cultist projecting.
> Except one needs to have charisma in
> order to be a charismatic leader, and you don't seem to do very well in that
> regard.
Delusions of a card carrying cultist.
> >Go see your shrink.
>
> What shrink? Never needed one, and don't need one now.
Card carrying cultist in denial.
Freethought110
> Iranians!
Since you don't like Iranians very much, kindly take your shit self
out of the boards and lists of an Iranian based religion, and fuck off
back to honkey town in Limey-aabaad.
Sekhmet
>> Naaah... you used to post that "What is a cult?" thing every once in a
>while,
>> and I always thought it suited you to a T!
>
>Card-carrying cultist projecting.
Not hardly... especially since I'm not the only person here who noticed the
aptness of your unintended self-description!
--Sekhmet
[snip]
Paul Hammond
Did I say I don't like Iranians?
Got ya again. Twice with the one message!
So fucking predictable - no wonder I've wiped the floor
with you so often.
Paul
Freethought110
> freetho...@yahoo.com (Freethought110) wrote in message
> Did I say I don't like Iranians?
Yes, it was clearly and unequivocally implied.
> So fucking predictable - no wonder I've wiped the floor
> with you so often.
In your dreams. The only wiping of the floor you have ever done in
your life is after your nocturnal emission.
Freethought110
> Nima wrote:
> >> Naaah... you used to post that "What is a cult?" thing every once in a
> while,
> >> and I always thought it suited you to a T!
> >
> >Card-carrying cultist projecting.
>
> Not hardly...
Very much so.
>especially since I'm not the only person here who noticed the
> aptness of your unintended self-description!
Your *other* friends don't count since they are cultists just like you.