Painting of 'Abdul-Baha.j 5
Corax
Too bad the uHJ does not like it, but they are old and cantankerous so who
cares really?
Corax
--
łDo not try and bend the spoon. Thatąs impossible. Instead . . . only try
to realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then youąll see that it is not the
spoon that bends, it is only yourself.˛
> From: "george.fleming2" <george....@ntlworld.com>
> Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service
> Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 17:47:17 +0000
> Subject: Painting of 'Abdul-Baha.j 5
>
>
>
> in article lk7F9.9111$fk5.5...@news0.telusplanet.net, OhMyGoodness at
> OhMyGo...@address.com wrote on 27/11/02 5:32 pm:
>
>> George,
>> We need your home address and a spare key in order to get into this
>> file on your computer:
>>
>> "george.fleming2" <george....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>> news:BA0A4A98.28FD%george....@ntlworld.com...
>> | Dear All on TRB
>> |
>> file:///Macintosh%20HD/%20George%20Fleming%20Art%20/Painting%20of%20'Abdul-B
>> | aha.j%205
>> |
>>
>
>
george.fleming2
Glad you liked it. You must agree this painting certainly is no insult to
the Baha'i Faith. I would love to know the Iranian artist's name who painted
it so as to give him or her credit.
You must be one who was able to download this painting from TRB URL.
So It has been sucessful with some people's computers.
All others interested yet cannot download from TRB's URL send a private
e/mail to
for an attachment copy of the painting...............GF
in article BA0A5B37.11DC9%cor...@elp.rr.com, Corax at cor...@elp.rr.com
wrote on 27/11/02 6:21 pm:
Corax
Corax
--
łDo not try and bend the spoon. Thatąs impossible. Instead . . . only try
to realize the truth. There is no spoon. Then youąll see that it is not the
spoon that bends, it is only yourself.˛
> From: "george.fleming2" <george....@ntlworld.com>
> Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service
> Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
george.fleming2
wrote on 27/11/02 6:48 pm:
> Maybe it is because I am using a Macintosh!
>
> Corax
It could be, I have a Mac myself.
GF
OhMyGoodness
George received a response on the painting from UK National Centre's
gardner who opens the letters in absence of NSA secretary and answers
them. This gardner is very very old and arrogant and he thinks the
National Centre belongs to him!
"Corax" <cor...@elp.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BA0A5B37.11DC9%cor...@elp.rr.com...
Tom Habibi
sure the Universal House of Justice had their reasons (although annoyingly
they didn't state them). Its hardly likely they asked it not to be published
just to annoy people. Perhaps it could be due to copyright? especially if
you don't know the author and/or whether he does hold a copyright.
"OhMyGoodness" <OhMyGo...@address.com> wrote in message
news:KVbF9.11084$fk5.6...@news0.telusplanet.net...
george.fleming2
OhMyGo...@address.com wrote on 27/11/02 10:44 pm:
> It is impossible that the UHJ does not like this painting. I am sure
> George received a response on the painting from UK National Centre's
> gardner who opens the letters in absence of NSA secretary and answers
> them. This gardner is very very old and arrogant and he thinks the
> National Centre belongs to him!
>
> "Corax" <cor...@elp.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:BA0A5B37.11DC9%cor...@elp.rr.com...
> | I think it is a nice painting.
> |
> Too bad the uHJ does not like it, but they are old and cantankerous
> so who cares really?
OhMy Goodness, the copy of the letter came from the THE INTERNATIONAL
TEACHING CENTRE BAHA'I WORLD CENTRE 2 July 2002. Read what Councellor Mr.
Enos Makhele says in the letter:
" The House of Justice has asked us to advise you that the **artificial
conjunction** of the pictures of the Master and the Guardian in this
representation is highly inappropriate, and it should not be circulated
among the friends". It never came from any UK NSA's gardner.
The letter was sent to the friend in Iran who in turn sent it to me as he
had sent me the painting previously. Below is my reply to him when I
received the letter. But now I am not a member I do not have to obey the ITC
request not to share the painting with friends.
I have deleted the Baha'i friends e.mail addresses as I dont wish to get
them in trouble. But it does not stop me from sharing the painting.
GF
From: george.fleming2 <george....@btinternet.com>
To: < *****************
Date: WednesdayJuly 6101020022002 6:57 pm
Subject: Re: Portrait of 'Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi
My Dear friend ********,
I am deeply saddened by this message from the THE INTERNATIONAL TEACHING
CENTRE BAHA'I WORLD CENTRE 2 July, with regards the House of Justice
opinion that the imagery of the beautiful painting you sent me is "highly
inappropriate, and it should not be circulated among the friends.
Well they are a little bit late in informing me because I have shared this
painting with at least 25 friends who are most delighted to have it, and I
am certainly not going to tell them all to send it back to me. It would be
against my artistic judgement to do so.
I cannot think for the House, and I know it is illegal to show imagery of
the Manifestation, now it seems all artists are forbidden to paint the
Master or the Guardian in any modern or traditional way that suits their
artistic talent as long as the art work is not disrespectful to the Master.
Finally, I wish you to know I was most pleased to receive the Painting and I
will have it enlarged and hung on my wall for my own personal use, and stick
this message on the back to remember me I must obey without question.
However I will obey the House of Justice and the International Teaching
center from now on, and not send it to other friends.
Your close Bahai friend in Ireland
George Fleming
on 10/7/02 12:54 pm, ***************** wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: *********************
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 2:17 PM
> To: **********************
> Subject: Fw: Portrait of 'Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi
>
>
> Dear **********,Allah u Abha
> I hope you and your dear family are well and happy,do you
> remember a few months ago you sent me a drawing of portrait of
> Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi ?
> Today I received this email and fwd it to you.......
> Lots of greetings to your family,
> ***********
>> Dearest ****************
>> AllahuAbha
>>
>> Thanks to God that we Baha'is have always guidance and do not need to
> depend
>> on our individual opinions (I am refering to myself only here), on the
>> matters such as this.
>>
>> After I also sent it to dear Enos and asked for his opinion, he asked the
>> question from the ITC and the attached guidance was recieved, with
> reference
>> to the Universal House of Justice, which he kindly forwarded it to me.
>>
>> I am not attaching the Portrait (not even for reference) since " The
>> Universal House of Justice has asked ... the artificial conjunction of the
>> picture of the Master and Guardian in this representation is highly
>> inappropriate, and it should not be circulated among the friends."
>>
>> Would you kindly forward this email to the originator of the portrait for
>> his kind considerations, if you know his particullars. I am sure that he
> did
>> not know better, like the rest of us!
>>
>> I so much miss the casual discussions that we had on the Faith (good old
>> times), and looking forward to your informative emails all the time.
> Thanks
>> God also that even those casual discussions on the Faith is systematic and
>> organised as Study Circles. God has given us everything.
>>
>> Loving regards to you and your family from all of us here
>>
>> ********** and family
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: ******************
>> To: ******************************
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 10:24 AM
>> Subject: Fw: Portrait of 'Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi
>>
>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: International Teaching Centre <i...@bwc.org>
>>> To: Mr. Enos Makhele <emak...@nwpg.org.za>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:42 AM
>>> Subject: Portrait of 'Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi
>>>
>>>
>>>> This document is being sent to you in PDF and plain text (ASCII)
>> formats.
>>>> In order to open the PDF document you will need to have a PDF reader,
>>>> which can be downloaded from the Internet at no charge from the
>> following
>>>> address <http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readermain.html>.
>>>> The ASCII version is included for your records, as an electronic text
>>>> search cannot be done on the document in PDF format.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> THE INTERNATIONAL TEACHING CENTRE
>>>> BAHA'I WORLD CENTRE
>>>> 2 July
> 2002
>>>> Transmitted by email
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Enos Makhele
>>>> Continental Board of Counsellors
>>>> in Africa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dearly loved Co-worker,
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your email of 5 June 2002 in which you seek
> guidance
>>>> concerning an electronic copy of a portrait of 'Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi
>>> Effendi.
>>>> Your concerns were referred to the Universal House of Justice.
>>>>
>>>> The House of Justice has asked us to advise you that the
> artificial
>>>> conjunction of the pictures of the Master and the Guardian in this
>>>> representation is highly inappropriate, and it should not be
> circulated
>>> among
>>>> the friends.
>>>>
>>>> With loving Baha'i greetings,
>>>>
>>>> The International Teaching Centre
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> cc: Board of Counsellors in Africa (by email)
george.fleming2
wrote on 28/11/02 2:24 am:
> Regardless of your being a Bahai, non-Bahai or "dissident" Bahai etc etc I'm
> sure the Universal House of Justice had their reasons (although annoyingly
> they didn't state them). Its hardly likely they asked it not to be published
> just to annoy people. Perhaps it could be due to copyright? especially if
> you don't know the author and/or whether he does hold a copyright.
Read what Councellor Mr. Enos Makhele says in the letter:
" The House of Justice has asked us to advise you that the **artificial
conjunction** of the pictures of the Master and the Guardian in this
representation is highly inappropriate, and it should not be circulated
among the friends". It never came from any UK NSA's gardner.
They did give their reasons.....................GF
>
>
> "OhMyGoodness" <OhMyGo...@address.com> wrote in message
> news:KVbF9.11084$fk5.6...@news0.telusplanet.net...
OhMyGoodness
| " The House of Justice has asked us to advise you that the
**artificial
| conjunction** of the pictures of the Master and the Guardian in this
| representation is highly inappropriate, and it should not be
circulated
| among the friends".
How dumb I was! of course that painting is not appropriate! Guardian
himself said and wrote that his station compared to Abdu'l-Baha is
......., and asked friends who take pictures if they wish have picture
of Abdu'l-Baha with them, but not both Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi
together, and never his picture.
I remember here we had a large conference with a counsellor and two
very large photos of Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi were two sides of
the podium. When all the believers in the conference stood to take
photos with the Counsellor and the two photos, the Counsellor took
away the picture of Shoghi Effendi and said that Shoghi Effendi
himself has instructed such and he does not wish to be beside
Abdu'l-Baha due to his utmost humility in relation to the exalted
station of Abdu'l-Baha.
george.fleming2
OhMyGo...@address.com wrote on 28/11/02 9:45 am:
**artificial conjunction** means that the portrait was constructed by the
artist's imagination maybe (or maybe not) using two separate photographs
(taken at different times of their faces) and neither Abdu'l Baha or Shoghi
Effendi ever sat to have the portrait painted. Background layout and colour
balance would all be imaginary, the very thing which makes good photo
realism, landscape or even abstraction in todays modern visual art.
Had the reason been what you believe it to be OhMyGoodness, the e/mail from
Councellor Mr. Enos Makhele would have stated so. Anyway you are still a
Baha'i so you have to abide by the rules, and not pass it on to any other
Baha'i, or if you wish to, do it on the quiet and dont let the NSA or the
UHJ know or you might get sancioned.......................GF
OhMyGoodness
| Had the reason been what you believe it to be OhMyGoodness, the
e/mail from
| Councellor Mr. Enos Makhele would have stated so. Anyway you are
still a
| Baha'i so you have to abide by the rules, and not pass it on to any
other
| Baha'i, or if you wish to, do it on the quiet and dont let the NSA
or the
| UHJ know or you might get sancioned.......................GF
|
|
Actually George, I've rceived that same photo several times from
Persian Baha'is who had arrived here recently. They sent it all over
with great joy as though they have discovered the stolen Tablets of
the Bab when He was on His way to Mecca! I never heard about the UHJ
statement till couple of days ago when you posted the response to your
communication. Thanks for the info.
george.fleming2
OhMyGo...@address.com wrote on 28/11/02 6:12 pm:
I think the letter was sent out to late. The copies had already been shared
around mamy of the friends. I doubt if it will make much difference now, in
all probabilty ever Baha'i home in Iran has one framed and up on their wall
already by now. I was going to enlarge and reproduce it in oils on canvas
for our Baha'i center before I got the letter.......................GF
Sufi Baha'i
That way we can all see it.
"george.fleming2" <george....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<BA0C4376.2E02%george....@ntlworld.com>...