I would like to say
Dermod Ryder
contemplation and meditation on my life and activities here .
I would like to say that I now regret many of the things that I have
said here - in particular the vicious and vitriolic way in which I
have assailed and attacked Susan Maneck, for which I now unreservedly
would like to apologise. She is a most honourable and accomplished
Bahai scholar who has borne these attacks.
I would also like to say that it's about time that Juan Cole and Karen
Bacquet in particular, though not exclusively, might achieve the art
of composing truthful articles about the Administrative Order of the
Bahai Faith, though in truth neither is distinguishable from the
other. Isn't it shameful that innocent people are misled about the
greatness of the Faith by these shoddy attempts at scholarship?
And in the light of my recent contemplative respite from this vile
place I would also like to say That I have signed a Declaration Card
and asked to be re-admitted to the Faith.
Dermod.
errol9
Grim_Re...@btinternet.com wrote on 1/4/03 4:44 pm:
April fool's day is dead and gone
and your the fool for carrying on.
Sekhmet
Dermod, I applaud your courage; I know from personal experience that such
self-examination is never easy.
Welcome back!
--Sekhmet
Randy Burns
Cheers, Randy
--
Dermod Ryder <Grim_Re...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:b6cftd$3m6pm$1...@ID-84503.news.dfncis.de...
Cal E. Rollins
Susan is the day pigs fly over Mt. Carmel instead of SCUDS. --Cal
Cal E. Rollins
heaven's sake. --Cal
Adelard Rubangura
we may not do the right thing.
May peace be with you.
God Bless.
Adelard
"Dermod Ryder" <Grim_Re...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:b6cftd$3m6pm$1...@ID-84503.news.dfncis.de...
Sekhmet
>Sehkmet, ala Susan, don't you see that Dermod is pulling your leg, for
>heaven's sake. --Cal
Maybe he is, considering the date and all, but until Dermod himself says it's
one of his "windups", I intend to treat his post as sincere. Introspection of
that nature would, after all, be the _right_ thing for him to do, however
unlikely it seems that he would actually do it, and I would not want to be the
first one to mock him for it, in case it's real.
--Sekhmet
Pat Kohli
Dermod Ryder wrote:
> I would like to say that I have spent my absence from here in quiet
> contemplation and meditation on my life and activities here .
>
I was thinking about you Dermod, last night. I even thought of emailing
you, to see how you were doing.
>
> I would like to say that I now regret many of the things that I have
> said here - in particular the vicious and vitriolic way in which I
> have assailed and attacked Susan Maneck, for which I now unreservedly
> would like to apologise. She is a most honourable and accomplished
> Bahai scholar who has borne these attacks.
>
That is big of you, Dermod, and, if, later in the week, you choose to
expand on these remarks ...
>
> I would also like to say that it's about time that Juan Cole and Karen
> Bacquet in particular, though not exclusively, might achieve the art
> of composing truthful articles about the Administrative Order of the
> Bahai Faith, though in truth neither is distinguishable from the
> other. Isn't it shameful that innocent people are misled about the
> greatness of the Faith by these shoddy attempts at scholarship?
>
Aha, I see.
>
> And in the light of my recent contemplative respite from this vile
> place I would also like to say That I have signed a Declaration Card
> and asked to be re-admitted to the Faith.
>
Not so fast! On the Badi calendar it was 10 or 11 Baha, or something like
that. April Fools is only in the Gregorian Calendar, and only once a year
(hmmmmm). If it is April Fools, and this is the kind of gimmick you could
pull at any time, does that mean, that maybe you were Serious?
NO!
Good to see you!
- Pat
kohli at ameritel.net
Starr*
> Dermod, "Liar, liar, your pants are on fire!" The day you lie down with
> Susan is the day pigs fly over Mt. Carmel instead of SCUDS. --Cal
I'm with Randy on this one - Starr*
>I get it.
>Cheers, Randy
--
Dermod Ryder <Grim_Re...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:b6cftd$3m6pm$1...@ID-84503.news.dfncis.de...
Cal E. Rollins
up and I'd probably have to get on the ladder to do it. He's one of the
ones who wanted me on this list to harass Susan with him, and he backs
out. Nah, nobody could be that virtuous. --Cal
Sekhmet
>Nah, nobody could be that virtuous. --Cal
Don't be so sure.
--Sekhmet
errol9
sekhm...@aol.com.nz wrote on 2/4/03 5:29 am:
Sekhmet could be right Cal, but reflecting in what Dermod has said, he
believes TRB to be a vile place. But rejoining the Baha'i Faith is the worst
thing he could do. These Christians believe If you have ever held religious
studies with Baha'i members, or attended any of their buildings or temples,
then you will need to repent of these involvements before God.
Involvment with BIGS on TRB could have contaminating my soul, and I might
need this prayer to help me shake of their evil Baha'i influences...errol
How To Pray Effectively For Baha'i Involvement
The first matter to understand is that the battle is spiritual. Ephesians
6:12 says "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood (your
relative/friend) but against principalities, against powers, against the
rulers of darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in
heavenly places." We are not fighting your loved one. They are in spiritual
bondage. We are going to deal with the demonic spirits which blind and
deafen them to the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, and which prevent them
responding to Him.
Make sure there is no unconfessed sin in your life. If so, get it right with
God. Then know your authority in Christ to overcome all the power of the
evil ones. "I give you the authority to trample on serpents and scorpions
(demons), and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall by any
means hurt you. Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are
subject to you, but rather rejoice because your names are written in
heaven," (Luke 10:19-20).
If possible, ask another Christian believer to agree with you in prayer.
"...If two of you agree on earth concerning anything you ask, it will be
done for you by My Father in heaven," (Matthew 18:19). What if you are
alone, and have no one to agree with you? Lorri MacGregor (a former cult
member who now heads up a Christian ministry to reach people in cults)
recommends you ask Jesus or the Holy Spirit to agree with you. Then pray to
God in the name of the Saviour Jesus Christ as the Holy Spirit directs you.
Bind the principal demonic strongman, "The Spirit of Deception," in the name
of Jesus Christ. "Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will
be bound in heaven..," (Matthew 18:18). There will be other demonic spirits
which need to be bound, so ask the Holy Spirit for the names or effects
caused by these and other demonic spirits, and how to remove their influence
from your loved one.
Ask God to release and loose your relative/friend from these demonic spirits
and all others which control them. "...Whatever you loose on earth will be
loosed in heaven," (Matthew 18:18).
Ask the Lord to release your loved one's emotions, which have been held in
fear and bondage for so long. The Holy Spirit will do this gently and
lovingly, so that the person comes to understand who they really are, and
how much Jesus really loves them. Ask the Lord to sovereignly fill your
loved one with His precious Holy Spirit.
Be assured that God is now at work in their lives to release them from their
bondage. Pray for their salvation, in faith. If the person is a family
member, God's promise to you is to "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and
you shall be saved, you and your household," (Acts 16:31). If they are not a
family member, God gives another promise for you to appropriate in prayer
for them. "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise... but is
long-suffering towards us, not willing that any should perish but that all
should come to repentance," (2 Peter 3:9) and "God our Saviour... desires
all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth," (1 Timothy,
2:4). God's Word is plain, He doesn't want your relative/friend in the
Baha'i to perish, to be wiped out on Judgment Day. God wants them saved, and
we have a commission from Him to do the job in prayer, and to find out how.
Keep on praying in faith for your loved one. Experience shows that
perseverance produces the best results, so don't be discouraged if there are
no positive signs for a while. Ask the Lord to make His word alive to them,
to show them the truth, even from their Scriptures.
Prayer of Action and Renunciation
If you have ever held religious studies with Baha'i members, or attended any
of their buildings or temples, then you will need to repent of these
involvements before God, ask His forgiveness, plead guilty without excuse,
then "...Confess with your mouth (out loud) that Jesus is Lord, and believe
in your heart that God raised Him from the dead," (Romans 10:9). Then ask
Jesus to come in and be Lord of your life. Ask the Holy Spirit to come and
fill you, removing all traces of the deceptions of the Baha'i, to help you
understand the Bible the way God wrote it, and to help you build up your
relationship with Jesus every day.
In the name of Jesus Christ, bind the spirits listed above and cut them off
from you and your family. Find Bible-believing Christians and spend time
with them. Please explain to them you are coming out of deception and need
their encouragement and support at least until you are firmly on your feet.
If some disappoint you (probably through not understanding your need) don't
be put off, there are caring Christians around who can and will help.
This prayer is taken from: "Unmasking the Baha'i Faith - An Impossible
Oneness?" by Russell J. Moore, (ISBN 0 9583417-7-X) published by Jubilee
Publishers, PO Box 36-044, Wellington 6330, New Zealand.
Copying of this prayer is both permitted and encouraged provided reference
is made to where it comes from. mailto:jub...@jubilee.org.nz
NEMO418
Don't even joke about it. Re-joining this mob of sorry eedjits is a
fate worse than death. I would rather undergo continual Chinese
torture.
Nima
"Dermod Ryder" <Grim_Re...@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:<b6cftd$3m6pm$1...@ID-84503.news.dfncis.de>...
Susan Maneck
>>said here - in particular the vicious and vitriolic way in which I
>>have assailed and attacked Susan Maneck, for which I now unreservedly
>>would like to apologise.
Say it again after April Fool's Day and I'll be happy to accept your apology.
;-} Unfortunately, when you try and play the faithful Baha'i you tend to
overdue it.
For instance:
>
>>I would also like to say that it's about time that Juan Cole and Karen
>>Bacquet in particular, though not exclusively, might achieve the art
>>of composing truthful articles about the Administrative Order
While many of the things Juan states can be easily demonstrated as false, I
don't think anyone who has observed Karen carefully would accuse her of
deliberately distorting the truth. (Except maybe Nima and Star, but we all know
how much credibility they have.)
warmest, Susan
Cal E. Rollins
Susan or even on her bandwagon, true. But God forbid. Besides, why
would he want to re-join a bed of vipers? That's definitely not a move
up on the level of spiritual archetype, is it? That is if you pay
attention to Christian and Baha'i archetype. --Cal
Cal E. Rollins
for most Baha'is.
Remember my talking on Talisman and Zuhur about the fundamentalist
Baha'i I had to kick out of my house because he said if the House of
Justice told us to kill or inter homosexuals we would have to do so? I
recall Star and a couple of others had the same experience with
fundamentalist types. My friend (he came back and repented but I
haven't followed him up since I moved here to SF) had gone to a
Fundamentalist Religion Anonymous group to get rid of his belief in
Satan destroying his immortal soul because he was interested in the
Faith. He became a Baha'i but he still believed he was going to be
damned. In my opinion, all the people who want to be cured or
de-briefed from cultish religious behavior just transfer that cultish,
fundamentalist thinking into other things--other religions, their jobs,
their socializing, their views of the world. --Cal
Sekhmet
>Sehkmet, stranger things have happened than Dermod getting in bed with
>Susan or even on her bandwagon, true. But God forbid. Besides, why
>would he want to re-join a bed of vipers?
Do you include yourself in that definition?
--Sekhmet
Starr*
Yes Susie, we have fought for the spiritual verities while you have
done the opposite - as Dermod demonstrated over and over again before
he came out about being in bed with you - more recently....I know how
you like the S&M and keep coming back for more and more and more...if
Dermod doesn't dish it out...who will....still trying to entice
Nima....don't you think he has better things to do? And BTW Kholi and
Sickmet haven't been singing your praises enough lately to off set all
that Dermodization. Truthfully you guys get points...because the plan
has worked and you might all get a bonus.
I still think you should offer a decent 'Desensitizing Programme'
instead of this farce.
Starr*
>
> warmest, Susan
>
>
>
>
>
> http://bahaistudies.net/susanmaneck/
Seegar
You're all a bunch of saps if you believe this yarn.
Peace,
Chris
NEMO418
> (Except maybe Nima and Star, but we all know
> how much credibility they have.)
Among some people far more than you or your clone Karen could ever
hope to have, bitch.
Nima
NEMO418
No wonder you are a BIGS. With gullibility like that people like you
are ripe picking for cults such as baha'i.
Btw there is a bridge I'd like to sell you - twice!
Nima
sekhm...@aol.com.nz (Sekhmet) wrote in message news:<20030401125104...@mb-fe.aol.com>...
NEMO418
wouldn't be as terrifying a prospect.
A bed of vipers. Try a bed of demons!
Nima
crol...@webtv.net (Cal E. Rollins) wrote in message news:<15166-3E...@storefull-2338.public.lawson.webtv.net>...
Sekhmet
>
>No wonder you are a BIGS. With gullibility like that people like you
>are ripe picking for cults such as baha'i.
If having hope for someone makes me a fool, then I rejoice in my foolishness.
>Btw there is a bridge I'd like to sell you - twice!
Fat chance-- I always consider the source before I buy, and, frankly, your
wares haven't passed inspection for a long, long time.
--Sekhmet
Paul Hammond
> sma...@aol.com (Susan Maneck ) wrote in message news:<20030402101030...@mb-fo.aol.com>...
> > >>I would like to say that I now regret many of the things that I have
> > >>said here - in particular the vicious and vitriolic way in which I
> > >>have assailed and attacked Susan Maneck, for which I now unreservedly
> > >>would like to apologise.
> >
> > Say it again after April Fool's Day and I'll be happy to accept your apology.
> > ;-} Unfortunately, when you try and play the faithful Baha'i you tend to
> > overdue it.
> >
> > For instance:
> >
> > >
> > >>I would also like to say that it's about time that Juan Cole and Karen
> > >>Bacquet in particular, though not exclusively, might achieve the art
> > >>of composing truthful articles about the Administrative Order
> >
> > While many of the things Juan states can be easily demonstrated as false, I
> > don't think anyone who has observed Karen carefully would accuse her of
> > deliberately distorting the truth. (Except maybe Nima and Star, but we all know
> > how much credibility they have.)
>
> Yes Susie, we have fought for the spiritual verities while you have
> done the opposite -
Star dear, you wouldn't know a spiritual verity if it bit you
in the bum. You were wholly taken in by Nima's charlatan act,
were you not?
Anyway, try walking before you run. Verities of the common
or garden variety ought to be your first focus - you have big
problems with ordinary facts, let alone spiritual ones.
Paul
Cal E. Rollins
always enjoyed nasty, evil people. You ought to see some of my friends.
I was beginning to despair that I would ever meet any Baha'is who were
openly viperous, although I had plenty of evidence they were there.
This list is like a breath of Spring. Every now and again, as we
tip-toe through the tulips of this list, a viper jumps out for a bite of
somebody. Great fun! --Cal
NEMO418
wares expired a looooonng time ago.
Nima
sekhm...@aol.com.nz (Sekhmet) wrote in message news:<20030403015812...@mb-fm.aol.com>...
Paul Hammond
saosh...@yahoo.com.au (NEMO418) wrote in message news:<9185f7bd.03040...@posting.google.com>...
Starr*
> > Yes Susie, we have fought for the spiritual verities while you have
> > done the opposite -
>
> Star dear, you wouldn't know a spiritual verity if it bit you
> in the bum.
Hey Paul talking about bums why don't you butt out and take your
venery back to the KBG where you do what you do so well.
Back to back
Belly to belly
Stick to the KBG
In her goo-glue-jelly
>You were wholly taken in by Nima's charlatan act,
> were you not?
Little do you know or will you ever know.
> Anyway, try walking before you run. Verities of the common
> or garden variety ought to be your first focus - you have big
> problems with ordinary facts, let alone spiritual ones.
You sound like a KluKluxKlaner who stands on the back of Blacks to
make themselves feel bigger and better....maybe you should join the
Haifa Fundamentals.
Back to back
Belly to belly
You don't give a damn
Cau'z you done dead already!
May the kbg bless you and spread her goo-glue all over you.
Starr*
NEMO418
> Star dear, you wouldn't know a spiritual verity if it bit you
> in the bum.
And you would??? ROTFLMAO :))
Nima
p.s. The only charlatan here is the fishmonger who sired you, prick.
NEMO418
paha...@onetel.net.uk (Paul Hammond) wrote in message news:<c977f97b.03040...@posting.google.com>...
NEMO418
> You sound like a KluKluxKlaner who stands on the back of Blacks to
> make themselves feel bigger and better....maybe you should join the
> Haifa Fundamentals.
He already is. Listen to the disgusting orthodox party line Hammond
has been spouting off lately everywhere which proves my contention
that this limey bastard has been a AO mole all along. The
fundamentalist drivel Hammond broadcasts would make Juan absolutely
gag. But, then again, Juan prefers now to make his bed with baha'i
fruitcakes like Hammond and Baha'i Church-Ladys like Kick-the-Bucket.
Nima
Adelard Rubangura
> You sound like a KluKluxKlaner who stands on the back of Blacks to
> make themselves feel bigger and better....
Stay to the point Starr*. Really, why do we, people from a non-European
background, often use race or racism to prove our point, most of time out of
context. I know Cal calls himself Black, Nima is a true blue Iranian, I saw
his picture with his beautiful eyebrows :-).
Starr*, may I ask, what's your background? I would not really be surprised
if you prove me correct.
God Bless
Adelard
Starr*
> > You sound like a KluKluxKlaner who stands on the back of Blacks to
> > make themselves feel bigger and better....
> <snip>
>
> Stay to the point Starr*.
Adelard - I did speak to the point Hammie wrote about:
<you have big problems with ordinary facts, let alone spiritual ones.>
You can tell that he was judging me and putting me down so he could
feel big, which means I can write to that.
There are many other examples one could use to demonstrate his
feelings of inferiority and the way they manifest.
For example I could say he 'sounds like' the paedophile personality
that preys on the weaknesses of children to feel empowered. His put
down of my spiritual awareness is the same kind of one up-manship that
might be displayed by a paedophile, a womanizer, a manizer, and/or an
abusive spouse, a racist, a sexist, a classist, and so on). The
motivation is usually an issue of wanting to have 'power' over someone
so as to validate themsleves because of their feelings of inadequacy.
Usually people from the fundamental tryanical backgrounds such as
Mullas, Priests, and that of the apartheid mentality execute these
kinds of put downs as a natural part of living and breathing; however,
the psychological profile of these kinds of control feaks is not good,
and in the long run often delivers unhappy relationships and/or
lengthy jail sentences. I was hoping to nip hammie's power issues in
the bud....but I see you have chipped in to encourage this
undesireable behaviour.
>Really, why do we, people from a non-European
> background,
what is your background and blood line?
often use race or racism to prove our point, most of time out of
> context.
It is not always out of context as the same 'pattern' of putting
others down so one can feel good or take advantage is as common to
racism as it is to sexism and on and on as explained above ----it is a
prime example evident in the phallic patriarchal bashing syndrome now
permeating all levels society.
>I know Cal calls himself Black,
Did you ever hear his jewish voice? He also says he has a bald head
and is looking younger than ever....wonder what he really looks like?
>Nima is a true blue Iranian,
Looks like there is something you don't know.
>I saw
> his picture with his beautiful eyebrows :-).
Where did you see his picture and why did you fall for his eyebrows? I
like his lips myself ;)
> Starr*, may I ask, what's your background? I would not really be surprised
> if you prove me correct.
I am a universal spiritual being having an earthly experience in a
white looking female body.....and I don't like discrimination....so I
imagine you would naturally react to the freedom song I sing whether
it is about racism, sexism, classism or totalitarianism.
She is God the light of the living love in the heavens and in the
earth!
Starr*
Brian Walker
you were absolutely right - not a trace of facility to recognize a
religious verity, and a pity she also cannot pen useable invective.
Brian
--
Brian F. Walker
Registered Linux User 270078
Debian GNU/Linux
Starr*
Yep....there aren't too many left around who haven't taken the ao
fundie mole path or who aren't in bed with them. Certainly they have
been a clever network...and sometimes entertaining. She cried and
repaired to Her Heavenly Abode because not one 'true' soul could be
found.....will there be another prototype one wonders - where it comes
to bring la paz and not only the sword of death.
Starr*
Paul Hammond
> > >
> > > Yes Susie, we have fought for the spiritual verities while you have
> > > done the opposite -
> >
> > Star dear, you wouldn't know a spiritual verity if it bit you
> > in the bum.
>
> Hey Paul talking about bums why don't you butt out and take your
> venery back to the KBG where you do what you do so well.
>
<snip>
>
> > Anyway, try walking before you run. Verities of the common
> > or garden variety ought to be your first focus - you have big
> > problems with ordinary facts, let alone spiritual ones.
>
> You sound like a KluKluxKlaner who stands on the back of Blacks to
> make themselves feel bigger and better....maybe you should join the
> Haifa Fundamentals.
>
You know what Micheal says about this sort of thing.
Thanks for confirming the essential truth of my
observations.
btw - are you black? I have no idea, but my antipathy
towards you is based entirely on my several years of
experience of your duplicity and whining, and not
at all on your race, whatever it might be.
You need to apply to Nima for lessons in racism, he's
the expert there.
Paul
Paul Hammond
Nah - it's the person who falsely claimed Manifestation status,
duping his only remaining friend in the process, just for
a bit of a laugh.
Many of the rest of us still have some integrity left.
Paul
Dermod Ryder
"Seegar" <sendither...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pbln8vg4mni117npn...@4ax.com...
No wonder you guys are making no progress! When a bona fide convert
comes along you just kick him in the teeth.
I am disappointed though not surprised.
Dermod.
Dermod Ryder
"Cal E. Rollins" <crol...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:15166-3E...@storefull-2338.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> Sehkmet, stranger things have happened than Dermod getting in bed
with
> Susan or even on her bandwagon, true.
Does anybody know if she snores?
Dermod Ryder
"Susan Maneck " <sma...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030402101030...@mb-fo.aol.com...
> Say it again after April Fool's Day
"it again"
> and I'll be happy to accept your apology.
And reciprocate with one o your own?
> ;-} Unfortunately, when you try and play the faithful Baha'i you
tend to
> overdue it.
Past its sell by date?
> For instance:
>
> >
> >>I would also like to say that it's about time that Juan Cole and
Karen
> >>Bacquet in particular, though not exclusively, might achieve the
art
> >>of composing truthful articles about the Administrative Order
>
> While many of the things Juan states can be easily demonstrated as
false, I
> don't think anyone who has observed Karen carefully would accuse her
of
> deliberately distorting the truth. (Except maybe Nima and Star, but
we all know
> how much credibility they have.)
Still hoping for a conversion down California way?????
Dermod Ryder
"NEMO418" <saosh...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:9185f7bd.03040...@posting.google.com...
> He already is. Listen to the disgusting orthodox party line Hammond
> has been spouting off lately everywhere which proves my contention
> that this limey bastard has been a AO mole all along. The
> fundamentalist drivel Hammond broadcasts would make Juan absolutely
> gag. But, then again, Juan prefers now to make his bed with baha'i
> fruitcakes like Hammond and Baha'i Church-Ladys like
Kick-the-Bucket.
That's "ladies!" Are you the alter ego of the DST?
Dermod Ryder
"Brian Walker" <bfwa...@net-yan.com> wrote in message
news:b6m2lu$6hbf1$1...@ID-164902.news.dfncis.de...
> Paul,
>
> you were absolutely right - not a trace of facility to recognize a
> religious verity, and a pity she also cannot pen useable invective.
Indeed, Brian! There are only a few of us who can do that.
ATHC,
Dermod
Adelard Rubangura
<mailto:Adelard_...@yahoo.com>>
>
> > > You sound like a KluKluxKlaner who stands on the back of Blacks to
> > > make themselves feel bigger and better....
> > <snip>
> >
> > Stay to the point Starr*.
>
> Adelard - I did speak to the point Hammie wrote about:
O.K, maybe according to you if you think so, but your heart is the only
judge. Personally, I lost my interest in your reply when I read
KluKluxKlaner in your posting addressed to Paul.
I just hope you don't act like what Cal and Nima are doing these days.
> <you have big problems with ordinary facts, let alone spiritual ones.>
>
> You can tell that he was judging me and putting me down so he could
> feel big, which means I can write to that.
"So he could feel big ....." Come on, Starr*
Could that be just what you prejudged him?
Nima's move was not that good too, a self-proclaimed Manifestation of God.
What if he had 10,000 of followers in his first week of his proclamation,
Star? Don't you think he could have created a sect. God forbid! I know first
hand how a sect can be created easily.
I believe his word though, that he was playing just a game.
<snip>
>but I see you have chipped in to encourage this
> undesireable behavior.
Truthfully, I don't encourage any kind of undesirable behavior, Starr*. I
just found that that word was not necessary in the discussion you are having
with Paul.
> >Really, why do we, people from a non-European
> > background,
>
> what is your background and blood line?
I am Black from African background, Rwanda in the Central of Africa.
<snip>
> >I know Cal calls himself Black,
>
> Did you ever hear his jewish voice? He also says he has a bald head
> and is looking younger than ever....wonder what he really looks like?
> >Nima is a true blue Iranian,
>
> Looks like there is something you don't know.
>
> >I saw
> > his picture with his beautiful eyebrows :-).
>
> Where did you see his picture and why did you fall for his eyebrows? I
> like his lips myself ;)
I saw his picture somewhere on the internet long time ago.
I happened to have a lot of eyebrows when I was a kid, people loved my
eyebrows every much.
No wonder why I am a Baha'i, I looked Iranian when growing up :-)
> > Starr*, may I ask, what's your background? I would not really be
surprised
> > if you prove me correct.
>
> I am a universal spiritual being having an earthly experience in a
> white looking female body.
I like your response, but unfortunately you proved me wrong :-)
....and I don't like discrimination....so I
> imagine you would naturally react to the freedom song I sing whether
> it is about racism, sexism, classism or totalitarianism.
There is one thing not to like all of those things, racism, sexism and so
on, but there is an other thing to be too *obsessed* or *slaved* by these
nonsense false ideologies.
> She is God the light of the living love in the heavens and in the
> earth!
Yes, indeed she is. May she manifest herself with her really true nature as
*she* thousand years from now.
God Bless
Adelard
NEMO418
> Nah - it's the person who falsely claimed Manifestation status,
LOL :)) Falsely as opposed someone claiming it rightly? You are indeed
a first rate dolt, Hammond. THERE IS NO ONE WHO HAS EVER BEEN RIGHTLY
A MANIFESTATION OF SOME GOD.
> duping his only remaining friend in the process, just for
> a bit of a laugh.
Shows what a genius I must be, then, that I can fool some many from
comfort of a keyboard, eh? And how do you know they were duped? I
think the bottom line is that you are utterly jealous because you
could never leave the mold of your utter mediocrity to even think up
something like the Bayaniyyah.
And, believe me, I have quite a lot of people out there solidly behind
me particularly among the secular Iranian opposition and very pissed
off Iranian Baha'is who I have managed to convince en toto that the
Baha'is are a cult. So much for you only remaining friend hypothesis.
Unlike some of you losers, I never put all my eggs in the basket of
mainitaing friendships with baha'i shites. But dont't let some cold
facts get in the way of your BS, limey.
> Many of the rest of us still have some integrity left.
You and integrity - hah! They're mutually exclusive terms. Lying about
your Baha'i status hardly goes to integrity. Bin Laden has more
integrity than you and the master who pulls your chain.
Btw I wasn't aware that you carried the kind of clout whereby you ever
spoke for an "us" or a "we"? But keep dreaming if it makes you feel
better, limey gobshite, because you were a pathetic nobody when I
invited you on board as you are a pathetic nobody now.
Limey wanna cracker?
Nima
Starr*
> > > > You sound like a KluKluxKlaner who stands on the back of Blacks to
> > > > make themselves feel bigger and better....
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > Stay to the point Starr*.
> >
> > Adelard - I did speak to the point Hammie wrote about:
>
> O.K, maybe according to you if you think so, but your heart is the only
> judge. Personally, I lost my interest in your reply when I read
> KluKluxKlaner in your posting addressed to Paul.
I would suggest that is because of your denial of the facts of the
mentality of KKK members, being a panBlack yourself, or lack of
personal experience...I would say your lack of interest could be
likened to the many Peace people who are in denial that a war is
presently waging and they refuse to look at the media reports...that
is a matter of choice...and I am not saying it is right or wrong.
> I just hope you don't act like what Cal and Nima are doing these days.
They should be given credit for saying what beats in their
hearts....it is a more honest approach to life than so many of the
hypocrites using the BF and it's writings as a cloak for their dark
heartedness. If you never get to the core of things it can not be
wholly rectified or the problem solved.
>
> > <you have big problems with ordinary facts, let alone spiritual ones.>
> >
> > You can tell that he was judging me and putting me down so he could
> > feel big, which means I can write to that.
>
> "So he could feel big ....." Come on, Starr*
> Could that be just what you prejudged him?
Adelard.....this person has no right to judge my spiritual
status....and I have the right to tell him/her so. The people who do
this have the psychological profile of inadequacy and put others down
in order to put themselves up... 'big' was an inappropriate word in
relation to Paul...even if it was just his own feeling I was talking
about.
> Nima's move was not that good too, a self-proclaimed Manifestation of God.
The Spirit was moving Nima....so why decry him for that one should
wonder? Adelard the Spirit is like a body of flowing water...if it
encounters a rock blocking it's flow....it just moves around the rock.
> What if he had 10,000 of followers in his first week of his proclamation,
> Star? Don't you think he could have created a sect.
A sect of what? He named an indpendent Path of Englightenment
(Bayaniyyah)...but we both agreed it was better for him to live to
fight another day in that he was receiving death threats. As such he
called the movement an 'experiment' to pacify those who rose to
persecute. Personally I think proclaiming to the Baha'i moles here on
trb did indeed make the Path an experiment and brought out the human
component of Manifestations....which in itself...should wake some
people up to the dangers of glorifying Prophets.
The Spirit can find another Vehicle.
God forbid!
Well don't forget Muhammad was a murderer and peadophile....do you
really think any of your Manifestations were without sin (in their
human component)?....that is pure sophism to believe that...because
historical facts prove the falsity of such myth making used to
manipulate the slaves born for serving their lords (all humanity).
>I know first
> hand how a sect can be created easily.
***Adelard, please tell which sect you created....and what the 'easy'
methodolgy was/is. You do have my interest now.***
> I believe his word though, that he was playing just a game.
>
Even if it was an experiment....it was growing....and helped a lot of
people...so maybe had it been allowed to flourish it would have
created a workable prototype. Some Bayaniyyah's feel that it's
doctrine, no matter how simple, liberated their thinking. So it was a
game that worked for some. :)
> <snip>
>
> >but I see you have chipped in to encourage this
> > undesireable behavior.
>
> Truthfully, I don't encourage any kind of undesirable behavior, Starr*. I
> just found that that word was not necessary in the discussion you are having
> with Paul.
It was a shock word used by me....to help Paul examine what kind of
dark techniques he was using to discredit me, and to expose the
character of hypocritical moles.
> > >Really, why do we, people from a non-European
> > > background,
> >
> > what is your background and blood line?
>
> I am Black from African background, Rwanda in the Central of Africa.
It is true that many of the African's I meet have not experienced the
suffering of minorities and oppressed classes because of living with a
group of people who are the 'majority'....it is a different situation
to those born in secondary positions in the dominant culture.
You sound like you would be a very good candidate to be used by the AO
to off set their purposeful discrimination against the poor Blacks of
the world. I have personal experience of witnessing their doing that
with the Aborigines of Australia as well as the Blacks of South
Carolina....so yes...you would be a treasured token to be used up
front (which is nothing new if you look at who becomes the Secretaries
of the NSA's - Mitchell and Hendersen in the USA, and Dubin in Oz, and
so forth at the ITC and UHJ - Blacks who play ball with the Iranian
Pahlavists in control used up front to do the dirty work). I hope you
are not one of them....but do sound vulnerable to the MO.
> <snip>
> > >I know Cal calls himself Black,
> >
> > Did you ever hear his jewish voice? He also says he has a bald head
> > and is looking younger than ever....wonder what he really looks like?
>
> > >Nima is a true blue Iranian,
> >
> > Looks like there is something you don't know.
> >
> > >I saw
> > > his picture with his beautiful eyebrows :-).
> >
> > Where did you see his picture and why did you fall for his eyebrows? I
> > like his lips myself ;)
>
> I saw his picture somewhere on the internet long time ago.
> I happened to have a lot of eyebrows when I was a kid, people loved my
> eyebrows every much.
>
> No wonder why I am a Baha'i, I looked Iranian when growing up :-)
Please send me a picture of yourself (star...@yahoo.com) as I should
not be deprived of seeing 'good lookers with intelligent brows'.
> > > Starr*, may I ask, what's your background? I would not really be
> surprised
> > > if you prove me correct.
> >
> > I am a universal spiritual being having an earthly experience in a
> > white looking female body.
>
> I like your response, but unfortunately you proved me wrong :-)
That's because slavery wherever it exists is wrong! People need to be
brought into Being for higher purposes than to be used as slaves by
those who would seek to elevate their ownselves (this is the condition
of most people living in the world today - slaves - but it was not
always thus). Just because the KKK are known slave lords it does not
mean that that religious and world leaders don't use the same pattern.
The use of that ugly pattern should be exposed so the meek can inherit
the earth IMO.
> ....and I don't like discrimination....so I
> > imagine you would naturally react to the freedom song I sing whether
> > it is about racism, sexism, classism or totalitarianism.
>
> There is one thing not to like all of those things, racism, sexism and so
> on, but there is an other thing to be too *obsessed* or *slaved* by these
> nonsense false ideologies.
Well Adelard...when the emperor has no clothes on it is perfectly
acceptable to point that out...but then others would prefer to stick
their heads up their bums and pretend all is right in hell (you know -
being an Epselom and thinking you are happy - even if the light of day
doesn't shine there).
> > She is God the light of the living love in the heavens and in the
> > earth!
>
> Yes, indeed she is. May she manifest herself with her really true nature as
> *she* thousand years from now.
I don't think you are powerful enough to keep Her Spirit supressed for
a thousand years...but hey keep trying if it makes your day.
>
> God Bless
> Adelard ---- You sound like Robert - After finding out about the AO alliances working here and on Beliefnet I wouldn't even be surprised if Errol was Dermod and you were Cal. But anyway you have created a sect and know how to do it, have a beautiful brow, and have created an intersting web persona for us to enjoy....so bless you and guide in the path of truth for Her names sake.
Starr*
Starr*
Teeheeheee -
Hey Gangbanger - it sounds like I must have hit a nerve in exposing
your scatology and witchitty grub mannerisms along with your bum hole
buddy (So doc go heal thyself --- at least that's what the BF
prescribes for same sex lovers).
Starr*
Starr*
You are the best! At The Haifa Centre! Even better than your counterparts!
Love Starr*
Starr*
> star...@yahoo.com (Starr*) wrote in message news:<ef5e3d8.03040...@posting.google.com>...
> > paha...@onetel.net.uk (Paul Hammond) wrote in message
> > > >
> > > > Yes Susie, we have fought for the spiritual verities while you have
> > > > done the opposite -
> > >
> > > Star dear, you wouldn't know a spiritual verity if it bit you
> > > in the bum.
> >
> > Hey Paul talking about bums why don't you butt out and take your
> > venery back to the KBG where you do what you do so well.
> >
>
> <snip>
> >
> > > Anyway, try walking before you run. Verities of the common
> > > or garden variety ought to be your first focus - you have big
> > > problems with ordinary facts, let alone spiritual ones.
> >
> > You sound like a KluKluxKlaner who stands on the back of Blacks to
> > make themselves feel bigger and better....maybe you should join the
> > Haifa Fundamentals.
> >
>
> You know what Micheal says about this sort of thing.
Well Michael is one of my favorites of all time...but he might agree
that there is nothing wrong with identifying 'bad behavior', even if
it is a metaphor employed to point such naughtiness out.
> Thanks for confirming the essential truth of my
> observations.
Your observations are worthless in that they are viewed from the
behind of the kbg and the ao - which means you wear brown tinted
stinky glasses and should be handed toilet paper instead of a keyboard
to express your crapolla.
> btw - are you black? I have no idea, but my antipathy
> towards you is based entirely on my several years of
> experience of your duplicity and whining, and not
> at all on your race, whatever it might be.
Your antipathy of me is based on your AO Mole status and the fact that
I helped expose your game and your goo-glue attachment to the kbg's
bottom. I still have a letter where you told me you 'love' me - more
of your insinserity and betrayal exposed....you'll have to cry me a
river to get back in my good graces.
> You need to apply to Nima for lessons in racism, he's
> the expert there.
Well it will be interesting to see how you two make out when he comes
to visit you - I shouldn't try the back to back belly to belly bum to
bum technique you are using on Kbg if you are smart.
Starr*
Brian Walker
Starr* wrote:
> Brian Walker <bfwa...@net-yan.com> wrote
>
> Teeheeheee -
>
> Hey Gangbanger - it sounds like I must have hit a nerve in exposing
> your scatology and witchitty grub mannerisms along with your bum hole
> buddy (So doc go heal thyself --- at least that's what the BF
> prescribes for same sex lovers).
>
> Starr*
For a woman (so I am told you are, and to be honest, you possess what
passes for feminine logic) who has just argued facilely about orgasms
and multiple partners, you have a gift for exposing your fantasies.
Gangbangs are boring. Not my scene.
Teeheehee? 15 years old? Possible, but Nima has more taste than that, so
I would surmise "mutton dressed up as sheep"
As for exposed nerves - you have only exposed your own absence of
neuronal facility, but then we have come to expect that of you.
What do you mean "go heal thyself" Surely you are not suggesting that
buggery is a medical illness, or that homosexuality is a disease? Come
now - so to peak - even you would not bend so low? But it is nice to see
that you accept the BF has laws which you would be well advised to
follow. I trust you will soon begin.
Before you do that, however, you might be better advised to be able to
discern between Divine Manifestation and spoof. When you have learned
that complex process, we may begin to take you seriously, and spar
seriously.
And you invective is still unimaginative and weak. Bottoms and
references to buggery do not bug better buggers.
Brian
Paul Hammond
> paha...@onetel.net.uk (Paul Hammond) wrote in message
>
> > star...@yahoo.com (Starr*) wrote in message news:<ef5e3d8.03040...@posting.google.com>...
> > > paha...@onetel.net.uk (Paul Hammond) wrote in message
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes Susie, we have fought for the spiritual verities while you have
> > > > > done the opposite -
> > > >
> > > > Star dear, you wouldn't know a spiritual verity if it bit you
> > > > in the bum.
> > >
> > > Hey Paul talking about bums why don't you butt out and take your
> > > venery back to the KBG where you do what you do so well.
> > >
> >
>
>
> > observations.
>
> Your observations are worthless in that they are viewed from the
> behind of the kbg and the ao - which means you wear brown tinted
> stinky glasses and should be handed toilet paper instead of a keyboard
> to express your crapolla.
>
*I'm* expressing crapola! You are the one with the bum and
toilet fixation!
>
> > btw - are you black? I have no idea, but my antipathy
> > towards you is based entirely on my several years of
> > experience of your duplicity and whining, and not
> > at all on your race, whatever it might be.
>
> Your antipathy of me is based on your AO Mole status and the fact that
> I helped expose your game and your goo-glue attachment to the kbg's
> bottom. I still have a letter where you told me you 'love' me - more
> of your insinserity and betrayal exposed....you'll have to cry me a
> river to get back in my good graces.
>
Not a chance! I don't ever desire your good graces again.
Sorry to disappoint.
> > You need to apply to Nima for lessons in racism, he's
> > the expert there.
>
> Well it will be interesting to see how you two make out when he comes
> to visit you - I shouldn't try the back to back belly to belly bum to
> bum technique you are using on Kbg if you are smart.
>
> Starr*
You're sounding jealous. Maybe you just don't do it for him
like I do?
Paul
Paul Hammond
>
> >
> > > <you have big problems with ordinary facts, let alone spiritual ones.>
> > >
> > > You can tell that he was judging me and putting me down so he could
> > > feel big, which means I can write to that.
> >
> > "So he could feel big ....." Come on, Starr*
> > Could that be just what you prejudged him?
>
> Adelard.....this person has no right to judge my spiritual
> status....and I have the right to tell him/her so. The people who do
> this have the psychological profile of inadequacy and put others down
> in order to put themselves up... 'big' was an inappropriate word in
> relation to Paul...even if it was just his own feeling I was talking
> about.
>
Star,
I merely speak as I find.
According to you, myself, Karen and everyone else ought
to just lie down in the road to get f***ed over by
your prophet, Nima?
I don't think so!
>
> > Nima's move was not that good too, a self-proclaimed Manifestation of God.
>
> The Spirit was moving Nima..
I thought the current story was that "it was all a joke"??
>..so why decry him for that one should
> wonder? Adelard the Spirit is like a body of flowing water...if it
> encounters a rock blocking it's flow....it just moves around the rock.
>
Yeah, and you and Nima are the biggest couple of rocks the
spirit has ever met! What's worse is that you come the
new-agey shit, pretending to be a flower child, and the
only thing that come out is the weakness of your grasp
on reality.
> > What if he had 10,000 of followers in his first week of his proclamation,
> > Star? Don't you think he could have created a sect.
>
> A sect of what? He named an indpendent Path of Englightenment
> (Bayaniyyah)...but we both agreed it was better for him to live to
> fight another day in that he was receiving death threats. As such he
> called the movement an 'experiment' to pacify those who rose to
> persecute.
Hmm. That's not the way your saviour tells it, Bethikins.
Do you have his permission to misrepresent this way?
Personally I think proclaiming to the Baha'i moles here on
> trb did indeed make the Path an experiment and brought out the human
> component of Manifestations....which in itself...should wake some
> people up to the dangers of glorifying Prophets.
>
Whatever Nima did has no bearing, and throws no light on
"the human component of the Manifestations". That is a
concept that your saviour now wholly rejects. He rejects
religion tout-court, and no says that he is an atheist,
and that whole proclamation was a cynical exercise
in role-playing.
Don't blame me. Your saviour said it.
Paul
NEMO418
> discern between Divine Manifestation and spoof.
When you yourself discern the difference, please let us know. As if
such a thing is possible. Brian, they're all spoofs.
Nima
Adelard Rubangura
mentality of KKK members, being a panBlack yourself, or lack of
personal experience...I would say your lack of interest could be
likened to the many Peace people who are in denial that a war is
presently waging and they refuse to look at the media reports...that
is a matter of choice...and I am not saying it is right or wrong >>.
>>
Starr*, I believe you really didn't get my point till now.
Our Paul is one of the few guys here who have been trying hard to educate
one sexist and racist guy who often post here. Really trying to say he is
trying to put you down for reason of superiority is not fair to him and many
of those who post here, including me.
<> I just hope you don't act like what Cal and Nima are doing these days.
<They should be given credit for saying what beats in their
<hearts....it is a more honest approach to life than so many of the
<hypocrites using the BF.and it's writings as a cloak for their dark
heartedness. If you never get to the core of things it can not be
wholly rectified or the problem solved.
>>
Starr*, there is one thing to be honest, but when you are trying to play the
art of the "race card", it's so so so ridiculous..
Recently, two people were in discussion here a while ago. One friend tried
his best to provide a very convincing response, and suddenly, the other
fellow just responded to him: " You are a racist ...blah, blah.......".
" This issue of racism is the most challenging one," here in America,
personally I would not want people to just use this issue wherever and
whenever they want, to further their own agenda.
<<
> > <you have big problems with ordinary facts, let alone spiritual ones.>
> >
> > You can tell that he was judging me and putting me down so he could
> > feel big, which means I can write to that.
>
> "So he could feel big ....." Come on, Starr*
> Could that be just what you prejudged him?
Adelard.....this person has no right to judge my spiritual
status....and I have the right to tell him/her so. The people who do
this have the psychological profile of inadequacy and put others down
in order to put themselves up... 'big' was an inappropriate word in
relation to Paul...even if it was just his own feeling I was talking
about.
> Nima's move was not that good too, a self-proclaimed Manifestation of God.
>>The Spirit was moving Nima....so why decry him for that one should
wonder?
>>
As a Baha'i, I would say there is one thing to say that you are having
spiritual experience, and there is an other one not to be in harmonie and
reject the source of all the divine inspirations which is the Spirit of Age
for this day, The Most Great Spirit, Baha'u'llah himself.
Baha'u'llah said that anyone who come before a thousand years is an
imposter.
<<Adelard the Spirit is like a body of flowing water...if it
encounters a rock blocking it's flow....it just moves around the rock.>>
Maybe I should introduce you to my brother :-). He is a Christian and says
that he receives divine dreams which contain messages for the world. When he
came to the west, he had some few followers. He would not mind at all to
have you, as far as I am concerned.
<<
> What if he had 10,000 of followers in his first week of his proclamation,
> Star? Don't you think he could have created a sect.
A sect of what? He named an indpendent Path of Englightenment
(Bayaniyyah)...but we both agreed it was better for him to live to
fight another day in that he was receiving death threats. As such he
called the movement an 'experiment' to pacify those who rose to
persecute. Personally I think proclaiming to the Baha'i moles here on
trb did indeed make the Path an experiment and brought out the human
component of Manifestations....which in itself...should wake some
people up to the dangers of glorifying Prophets. The Spirit can find another
Vehicle.
>>
Death threats? From who? Do you have any evidence? The Faith teaches to
consider all people with compassion, regardless of their beliefs and so on.
I find it hard to believe what you say.
<<
God forbid!
Well don't forget Muhammad was a murderer and peadophile....do you
really think any of your Manifestations were without sin (in their
human component)?....that is pure sophism to believe that...because
historical facts prove the falsity of such myth making used to
manipulate the slaves born for serving their lords (all humanity).
>>
As I stated above, Starr*, I didn't believe that Nima is not prophet
because he may commit sins and that he is a human, but because he is not in
harmony with the source of all Divine inspirations of this age, Baha'u'llah.
Did Muhammad reject Christ? And furthermore, till a thousand years.
<<
>I know first
> hand how a sect can be created easily.
***Adelard, please tell which sect you created....and what the 'easy'
methodolgy was/is. You do have my interest now.***>>
>>
My brother tried to create one, and had some followers as I told you above.
<<> I believe his word though, that he was playing just a game.
Even if it was an experiment....it was growing....and helped a lot of
people...so maybe had it been allowed to flourish it would have
created a workable prototype. Some Bayaniyyah's feel that it's
doctrine, no matter how simple, liberated their thinking. So it was a
game that worked for some. :)
>>
What did you gain from Nima, message?
> <snip>
> >but I see you have chipped in to encourage this
> > undesireable behavior.
>
> Truthfully, I don't encourage any kind of undesirable behavior, Starr*. I
> just found that that word was not necessary in the discussion you are
having
> with Paul.It was a shock word used by me....to help Paul examine what kind
of
dark techniques he was using to discredit me, and to expose the
character of hypocritical moles.
>>
If you think what you say is "Truth", you don't need anything else, Starr*.
Only the truth can change the heart.
<<<
> > >Really, why do we, people from a non-European
> > > background,
> > what is your background and blood line?
> I am Black from African background, Rwanda in the Central of Africa.
It is true that many of the African's I meet have not experienced the
suffering of minorities and oppressed classes because of living with a
group of people who are the 'majority'....it is a different situation
to those born in secondary positions in the dominant culture.
>>>
For your record, Starr*, since Africa, I happened to be in minority when
living in Africa. Now I live in USA, and I am a minority. So, you can
understand what I know about my experience about this sick world. I like
just to be fair.
<<<You sound like you would be a very good candidate to be used by the AO
to off set their purposeful discrimination against the poor Blacks of
the world. I have personal experience of witnessing their doing that
with the Aborigines of Australia as well as the Blacks of South
Carolina..>>
I can't trust you, Starr*, you know you are here just to bash the AO. I used
to be involved in street teaching like what happened in South Carolina, so I
know how it may not that easier to deepen new believers who declared in such
circumstance.
>>.so yes...you would be a treasured token to be used up
front (which is nothing new if you look at who becomes the Secretaries
of the NSA's - Mitchell and Hendersen in the USA, and Dubin in Oz, and
so forth at the ITC and UHJ - Blacks who play ball with the Iranian
Pahlavists in control used up front to do the dirty work). I hope you
are not one of them....but do sound vulnerable to the MO.>>>
I would expect you say such things, Starr*.
> <snip>
> > >I know Cal calls himself Black,
> >
> > Did you ever hear his jewish voice? He also says he has a bald head
> > and is looking younger than ever....wonder what he really looks like?
>
> > >Nima is a true blue Iranian,
> >
> > Looks like there is something you don't know.
> >
> > >I saw
> > > his picture with his beautiful eyebrows :-).
> >
> > Where did you see his picture and why did you fall for his eyebrows? I
> > like his lips myself ;)
>
> I saw his picture somewhere on the internet long time ago.
> I happened to have a lot of eyebrows when I was a kid, people loved my
> eyebrows every much.
>
> No wonder why I am a Baha'i, I looked Iranian when growing up :-)
>>
Please send me a picture of yourself (star...@yahoo.com
<mailto:star...@yahoo.com>) as I should
not be deprived of seeing 'good lookers with intelligent brows'.
>>
I will send you one when I make one.
> > > Starr*, may I ask, what's your background? I would not really be
> surprised
> > > if you prove me correct.
> >
> > I am a universal spiritual being having an earthly experience in a
> > white looking female body.
>
> I like your response, but unfortunately you proved me wrong :-)
That's because slavery wherever it exists is wrong! People need to be
brought into Being for higher purposes than to be used as slaves by
those who would seek to elevate their ownselves (this is the condition
of most people living in the world today - slaves - but it was not
always thus). Just because the KKK are known slave lords it does not
mean that that religious and world leaders don't use the same pattern.
The use of that ugly pattern should be exposed so the meek can inherit
the earth IMO.
>>>
I can see it right now through the Media propaganda machine. Hope the young
generation, especially people of West, are going to be the smartest people
in the world affairs and it's challenging problems than any other generation
in our history, with the help of internet communication.
<<The Most Great Spirit said so.
> ....and I don't like discrimination....so I
> > imagine you would naturally react to the freedom song I sing whether
> > it is about racism, sexism, classism or totalitarianism.
>
> There is one thing not to like all of those things, racism, sexism and so
> on, but there is an other thing to be too *obsessed* or *slaved* by these
> nonsense false ideologies.
Well Adelard...when the emperor has no clothes on it is perfectly
acceptable to point that out...but then others would prefer to stick
their heads up their bums and pretend all is right in hell (you know -
being an Epselom and thinking you are happy - even if the light of day
doesn't shine there).>>
>>
There is a time appropriate to speak about this issues of racism, or sexism.
But when someone is engaged in a discussion with someone else and the other
guy replies to him and he begins to accuse him of being racist, it's so
ridiculous. It tells me that someone is just playing a game or someone is
indeed *slaved* or *obsessed* about these false ideologies.
> > She is God the light of the living love in the heavens and in the
> > earth!
> Yes, indeed she is. May she manifest herself with her really true nature
as
> *she* thousand years from now.
I don't think you are powerful enough to keep Her Spirit supressed for
a thousand years...but hey keep trying if it makes your day.
>>
The problem is the world in it's current childhood state, even Baha'u'llah
had to throw away thousands of verses, because people of the world could not
handle it. I believe you, Starr*, have failed to understand the basic
teachings of this revelation and it's progressive nature as one of it's
divine principles and instead you have found yourself in a very hopeless
situation.
Here is what Shoghi Effendi says:
"As to those verses which He either dictated or wrote Himself, their number
was no less remarkable than either the wealth of material they contained, or
the diversity of subjects to which they referred. A vast, and indeed the
greater proportion of these Writings were, alas, lost irretrievably to
posterity. No less an authority than Mirza Aqa Jan, Bahá'u'lláh's
amanuensis, affirms, as reported by Nabil, that by the express order of
Bahá'u'lláh, hundreds of thousands of verses, mostly written by His own
hand, were obliterated and cast into the river. 'Finding me reluctant to
execute His orders,' Mirza Aqa Jan has related to Nabil, 'Bahá'u'lláh would
reassure me saying: 'None is to be found at this time worthy to hear these
melodies.' Not once, or twice, but innumerable times, was I commanded to
repeat this act.'" (God Passes By, 138).
<snip>
God Bless
Adelard.
Starr*
> Starr* wrote:
> > Brian Walker <bfwa...@net-yan.com> wrote
> >
> > Teeheeheee -
> >
> > Hey Gangbanger - it sounds like I must have hit a nerve in exposing
> > your scatology and witchitty grub mannerisms along with your bum hole
> > buddy (So doc go heal thyself --- at least that's what the BF
> > prescribes for same sex lovers).
> >
> > Starr*
>
> For a woman (so I am told you are, and to be honest, you possess what
> passes for feminine logic)
Thank You....because that logic is not only analitical but subjective
and therefore more comprehensive than a one way approach that you
often present.
>who has just argued facilely about orgasms
> and multiple partners, you have a gift for exposing your fantasies.
> Gangbangs are boring. Not my scene.
Then why did you jump in with your two cents of approval when Paul was
attempting to rape the good name of my spiritual character??????
Baa Baa Brian ( wolf in sheeps clothing) - I thought I was safe from
your low level vitriolic malediction as you said you wouldn't engage
me when I became more present on TRB some time last year.....but Alas!
I see
*you have been hanging on every word I say*....waiting to pack pounce
with your
misanthropic scurrilous inveigh....which makes you an ao Brian
'Stalker' not Walker who can't even spell my name right - that won't
look good in your reports to whoever pulls your strings quack.
> Teeheehee? 15 years old? Possible, but Nima has more taste than that, so
> I would surmise "mutton dressed up as sheep"
You sound VERY experienced with both! But Nima likes Angels with
Angles --
and here I Am.
> As for exposed nerves - you have only exposed your own absence of
> neuronal facility, but then we have come to expect that of you.
baa baa Brian the Stalker, not Walker,
dressed like a sheep but really a fangy freak!
> And you invective is still unimaginative and weak. Bottoms and
> references to buggery do not bug better buggers.
Yep - You are the BBBBS (Biggest Best Brian Bugger Stalker) who keeps
the vituperation alive on behalf of the Baha'i Administration as a
diversion from real issues.....go bugger go!
Starr*
Starr*
> > <you have big problems with ordinary facts, let alone spiritual
ones.>
> > > >
> > > > You can tell that he was judging me and putting me down so he could
> > > > feel big, which means I can write to that.
> > >
> > > "So he could feel big ....." Come on, Starr*
> > > Could that be just what you prejudged him?
> >
> > Adelard.....this person has no right to judge my spiritual
> > status....and I have the right to tell him/her so. The people who do
> > this have the psychological profile of inadequacy and put others down
> > in order to put themselves up... 'big' was an inappropriate word in
> > relation to Paul...even if it was just his own feeling I was talking
> > about.
> >
>
> Star,
>
> I merely speak as I find.
Like I said Paul (or whoever you are ao mole), here's an ordinary fact
for you -you look through poohpooh colored glasses from hanging off
kbg's bum so your findings are meaningless and worthless to people who
are seeking Truth.
> According to you, myself, Karen and everyone else ought
> to just lie down in the road to get f***ed over by
> your prophet, Nima?
>
> I don't think so!
Considering all the vilipendious execrate you produce on behalf of
kick-the-buckett maybe you should bend over instead and let Brian take
care of your needs---he's the self proclaimed BBBS (Biggest Best
Bugger Stalker).
> > > Nima's move was not that good too, a self-proclaimed Manifestation of God.
> >
> > The Spirit was moving Nima..
>
> I thought the current story was that "it was all a joke"??
>
> >..so why decry him for that one should
> > wonder? Adelard the Spirit is like a body of flowing water...if it
> > encounters a rock blocking it's flow....it just moves around the rock.
> >
>
> Yeah, and you and Nima are the biggest couple of rocks the
> spirit has ever
You might call us 'rocks' but we in NZ and OZ call the likes of you
'dags' (turds hanging off the hairs of sheep bums). And btw my name
'Saffa' does mean 'rock' or 'steadfast in the spirit' in Arabic -
which is the truth.
> > > What if he had 10,000 of followers in his first week of his proclamation,
> > > Star? Don't you think he could have created a sect.
> >
> > A sect of what? He named an indpendent Path of Englightenment
> > (Bayaniyyah)...but we both agreed it was better for him to live to
> > fight another day in that he was receiving death threats. As such he
> > called the movement an 'experiment' to pacify those who rose to
> > persecute.
>
> Hmm. That's not the way your saviour tells it, Bethikins.
>
> Do you have his permission to misrepresent this way?
Looks like that brown stuff is now oozing into your memory centers as
Nima explained to you we were co-creators of Bayaniyyah and therefore
we both have a say:
From: NEMO418 (saosh...@yahoo.com.au)
Subject: Re: who is Nima's follower ?
View this article only
Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
Date: 2003-02-04 17:54:00 PST
Because she hates your guts and that of your co-religionists and does
not wish to subject herself to your disgusting presence. Ever thought
about that? Starr and I get along just fine and the whole of the
Bayaniyyah was our combined brain-child in any case.
Glaze eyed cultist wanna craker?
Nima
> Personally I think proclaiming to the Baha'i moles here on
> > trb did indeed make the Path an experiment and brought out the human
> > component of Manifestations....which in itself...should wake some
> > people up to the dangers of glorifying Prophets.
> >
>
> Whatever Nima did has no bearing, and throws no light on
> "the human component of the Manifestations". That is a
> concept that your saviour now wholly rejects. He rejects
> religion tout-court,
Oh my goodness you are now under His Spell.....as you are using His
terminology "tout court" which appeared in two of His recent
posts...emulation is a true sign of Respect and flattery...kneel next
time and maybe He will bless you with his promised visit to your neck
of the woods and you can kiss his .....ring....or whatever.
Starr*
Brian Walker
Starr* wrote:
> Brian Walker <bfwa...@net-yan.com> wrote
>
>
>>Starr* wrote:
>>
>>>Brian Walker <bfwa...@net-yan.com> wrote
> Then why did you jump in with your two cents of approval when Paul was
> attempting to rape the good name of my spiritual character??????
You do not have a good name wrt your spiritual character. Your current
status is one of court buffoon.
>
> Baa Baa Brian ( wolf in sheeps clothing) - I thought I was safe from
> your low level vitriolic malediction as you said you wouldn't engage
> me when I became more present on TRB some time last year.....but Alas!
> I see
> *you have been hanging on every word I say*....waiting to pack pounce
> with your
> misanthropic scurrilous inveigh....which makes you an ao Brian
> 'Stalker' not Walker who can't even spell my name right - that won't
> look good in your reports to whoever pulls your strings quack.
Nursery rhymes, Scar? Deep desires manifesting themselves? Beware Scar -
you reveal too much of yourself - best thing is you reserve that for Nima.
>>Teeheehee? 15 years old? Possible, but Nima has more taste than that, so
>>I would surmise "mutton dressed up as sheep"
>
>
> You sound VERY experienced with both! But Nima likes Angels with
> Angles -- and here I Am.
Ah, I see - back to the sexual innuendo ... personally speaking, I left
those attitudes behind when I grew up, and had real relationships with
real people. What you do with Nima is entirely your private affair, so
to peak.
>
>>As for exposed nerves - you have only exposed your own absence of
>>neuronal facility, but then we have come to expect that of you.
>
>
> baa baa Brian the Stalker, not Walker,
> dressed like a sheep but really a fangy freak!
omigod .... that seems to sum up the quality of her reply .... sad.
>>And you invective is still unimaginative and weak. Bottoms and
>>references to buggery do not bug better buggers.
>
>
> Yep - You are the BBBBS (Biggest Best Brian Bugger Stalker) who keeps
> the vituperation alive on behalf of the Baha'i Administration as a
> diversion from real issues.....go bugger go!
Did it take you a long time to think of the reply? Possibly you were
"busy" elsewhere to be able to craft a response with a semblance of wit.
Possibly crafting a semblance of wit is beyond your capacity. We need to
be told!
Starr*
BBBBS dear -
Scar - do you have a comprehension problem beyond the obvious one?
Evidently I misread you to be vindictive towards me; but now I realize
you have assigned high forms of adjulation to my person as I read the
synonyms of your affectionate name of 'scar' for me -
Scar: 1. (height) High Point, Summit, Lofiness, stature, eminence,
sublimity, mountain, sierra, sky-high, etc
2. (mark/indicator) Way Shower, Point, Indicator,
Classification, Brand,
Signal, Messenger, Badge, Signal, Sign, Heraldry, Call, Flag,
Asterisk,
Twinkle, etc...
I probably have embarassed you by exposing your hidden admiration of
me, and as such you might try and ascribe a lesser or ugly meaning to
mask that adoration, while knowing in your inner being that I wear the
embossed scars of the five and nine pointed stars with great devotion
to the Highest Point. I thank you for lavishing such praise and
adoration, but it is to your own inner essence that I adjure you and
to come to love and know....for to thine own self be true and then to
no person can you be false.
> Starr* wrote:
> > Brian Walker <bfwa...@net-yan.com> wrote
> >
> >
> >>Starr* wrote:
> >>
> >>>Brian Walker <bfwa...@net-yan.com> wrote
>
> > Then why did you jump in with your two cents of approval when Paul was
> > attempting to rape the good name of my spiritual character??????
>
> You do not have a good name wrt your spiritual character. Your current
> status is one of court buffoon.
Again you mask your adoration and admiration of my wisdom and wit...so
here we see the Court Jester making joie de vivre with a donkey, or
would you prefer in the jibe of it all I call/designate/mark you a
jackass?
> > Baa Baa Brian ( wolf in sheeps clothing) - I thought I was safe from
> > your low level vitriolic malediction as you said you wouldn't engage
> > me when I became more present on TRB some time last year.....but Alas!
> > I see
> > *you have been hanging on every word I say*....waiting to pack pounce
> > with your
> > misanthropic scurrilous inveigh....which makes you an ao Brian
> > 'Stalker' not Walker who can't even spell my name right - that won't
> > look good in your reports to whoever pulls your strings quack.
>
> Nursery rhymes, Scar? Deep desires manifesting themselves? Beware Scar -
> you reveal too much of yourself - best thing is you reserve that for Nima.
Jealousy will get you nowhere jackal...Oh I forgot that was jackass.
> > You sound VERY experienced with both! But Nima likes Angels with
> > Angles -- and here I Am.
> Ah, I see - back to the sexual innuendo ... personally speaking,
Brian Talker is projecting again..
>I left those attitudes behind when I grew up,
Hey little bugger there is little hope of that ever happening.
>and had real relationships with real people.
Yeah - name one???
>What you do with Nima is entirely your private affair, so
> to peak.
It seems to be 'bugging you'! So it is not only me you adore, you are
also jealous for Nima's affections...I'm sure he has better taste so
you can give that semi-masked longing a rest.
>
> >>And you invective is still unimaginative and weak. Bottoms and
> >>references to buggery do not bug better buggers.
> >
> >
> > Yep - You are the BBBBS (Biggest Best Brian Bugger Stalker) who keeps
> > the vituperation alive on behalf of the Baha'i Administration as a
> > diversion from real issues.....go bugger go!
Starr*-Scar(high point in the heaven of understanding)-----
Paul Hammond
But some are more spoofy than others.
Jesus had 12 disciples, Muhammad created an empire,
thousands died for their faith in the Bab, and there
are about 6 million Baha'is today.
You only got Star. I reckon that's why you gave up -
the charisma didn't work for you like it did for these
others.
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing - and
boy did you miss out on swing!
Paul
Brian Walker
indeed you are precious. We need you to remind us of what may happen
when the contemplative faculties fail.
Starr* wrote:
> Brian Walker <bfwa...@net-yan.com> wrote >
snip
>
> I probably have embarassed you by exposing your hidden admiration of
> me, and as such you might try and ascribe a lesser or ugly meaning to
> mask that adoration, while knowing in your inner being that I wear the
> embossed scars of the five and nine pointed stars with great devotion
> to the Highest Point. I thank you for lavishing such praise and
> adoration, but it is to your own inner essence that I adjure you and
> to come to love and know....for to thine own self be true and then to
> no person can you be false.
There is no need to thank me - you will achieve the station you deserve
without my attentions. I pray you could do better - and with help and
prayer you may yet be able to remove yourself from the mire in which you
are currently immersed.
>>>Then why did you jump in with your two cents of approval when Paul was
>>>attempting to rape the good name of my spiritual character??????
>>
>>You do not have a good name wrt your spiritual character. Your current
>>status is one of court buffoon.
>
>
> Again you mask your adoration and admiration of my wisdom and wit...so
> here we see the Court Jester making joie de vivre with a donkey, or
> would you prefer in the jibe of it all I call/designate/mark you a
> jackass?
You can do what you wish, Scarette - your opinions and views are utterly
irrelevant. As court buffoon you are permitted to jape and jest.
snipped
>
>
>>Ah, I see - back to the sexual innuendo ... personally speaking,
>
>
> Brian Talker is projecting again..
2/10 for imagination and wit with this jibe.
>>I left those attitudes behind when I grew up,
>
>
> Hey little bugger there is little hope of that ever happening.
2/10 - for effort, but poor style and substance
>>and had real relationships with real people.
>
>
> Yeah - name one???
o dear .... not even 1/10 for this one ... unoriginal, meaningless,
lacking even the semblance of copied wit.
>>What you do with Nima is entirely your private affair, so
>>to peak.
>
>
> It seems to be 'bugging you'! So it is not only me you adore, you are
> also jealous for Nima's affections...I'm sure he has better taste so
> you can give that semi-masked longing a rest.
Casting pearls before the swine - not even a reference to the pun that
should have hit your cerebrum and required a riposte that showed some
higher cerebral function.
And again you play on the supposed homophobic fears ... lass, Scarette,
a word in your ear if would ... such references do not raise even one
hackle. Such low-grade stuff was significant in junior high school
playgrounds ... do try and get with the age!
>>>>And you invective is still unimaginative and weak. Bottoms and
>>>>references to buggery do not bug better buggers.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yep - You are the BBBBS (Biggest Best Brian Bugger Stalker) who keeps
>>>the vituperation alive on behalf of the Baha'i Administration as a
>>>diversion from real issues.....go bugger go!
>
>
>
> Starr*-Scar(high point in the heaven of understanding)-----
I would prefer to refer to you as clod-ee-aww, and invoke the image of a
donkey braying on the clod. That would surely be more appropriate.
Paul Hammond
> <<I would suggest that is because of your denial of the facts of the
> mentality of KKK members, being a panBlack yourself, or lack of
> personal experience...I would say your lack of interest could be
> likened to the many Peace people who are in denial that a war is
> presently waging and they refuse to look at the media reports...that
> is a matter of choice...and I am not saying it is right or wrong >>.
> >>
>
> Starr*, I believe you really didn't get my point till now.
>
> Our Paul is one of the few guys here who have been trying hard to educate
> one sexist and racist guy who often post here. Really trying to say he is
> trying to put you down for reason of superiority is not fair to him and many
> of those who post here, including me.
>
Thank you so much for your support, Adelard!
It is much appreciated.
This is a dirty, stupid fight - my own fault, there's a lot
of truth in the adage of getting dirty when you fight with
pigs on their level, and Nima and his acolyte are two of
the dirtiest fighters around here (that *one* you mention
excepted - but he's not much of a fighter, in fact).
It is a very low tactic to go around accusing your
opponents of racism, when nothing they have said
could possibly lead to that suggestion.
Anyway, I have found you to be one of the sincerest,
sweetest regular posters around here.
>
> As a Baha'i, I would say there is one thing to say that you are having
> spiritual experience, and there is an other one not to be in harmonie and
> reject the source of all the divine inspirations which is the Spirit of Age
> for this day, The Most Great Spirit, Baha'u'llah himself.
>
> Baha'u'llah said that anyone who come before a thousand years is an
> imposter.
>
I'm sure that Nima's recent proclamation here offended you
more than many - but I don't recall you getting nasty
about it.
Several people had genuine concern for Nima's mental
well-being at that point, though since he classifies
them as "ex-friends" I guess he could care less.
Me, I was already an ex-friend. He tried bullying me on
his private list, before peremptorially throwing me off,
and then closing the list entirely. Then, after Karen
started a new list to fill the gap, after he had
announced his intention to have nothing further to
do with us, his acolyte posted the archives to Nima,
and he posted them here, fuming at us for daring
to carry on without him.
This is what caused his vitriol towards Karen - we
had tried to pick someone who would *not* get up his
nose - but as it turns out it would have made
little difference to Nima - he just hates everyone
equally who will not kow-tow to his leadership.
At least, Nima's story that the whole thing was
some kind of game might reassure some of those that
were concerned for his health.
Still, what kind of man pretends to be God's mouthpiece
in a place where he knows what kind of offence it
will cause, just for a bit of a laugh?
I think the answer must be: troll.
For me, bullies have never impressed me, and Nima is one
of the worst internet bullies I ever met.
>
> Death threats? From who? Do you have any evidence? The Faith teaches to
> consider all people with compassion, regardless of their beliefs and so on.
> I find it hard to believe what you say.
>
Isn't that what started this thing off? I find it hard to
believe anything Star says. She was either taken in by
Nima's "God act", or willingly colluded with him in his
deception. Either way, it doesn't say much for her
judgement or grasp on the truth.
>
> As I stated above, Starr*, I didn't believe that Nima is not prophet
> because he may commit sins and that he is a human, but because he is not in
> harmony with the source of all Divine inspirations of this age, Baha'u'llah.
> Did Muhammad reject Christ? And furthermore, till a thousand years.
>
Easy to see, for anyone except Star!
> <<> I believe his word though, that he was playing just a game.
> Even if it was an experiment....it was growing....and helped a lot of
> people...so maybe had it been allowed to flourish it would have
> created a workable prototype. Some Bayaniyyah's feel that it's
> doctrine, no matter how simple, liberated their thinking. So it was a
> game that worked for some. :)
> >>
>
> What did you gain from Nima, message?
>
That's a good question. Star, if you'd ignore everything
else in this message, and just answer Adelard's question
here, that might be instructive for all of us.
> > <snip>
> > >but I see you have chipped in to encourage this
> > > undesireable behavior.
> >
> > Truthfully, I don't encourage any kind of undesirable behavior, Starr*. I
> > just found that that word was not necessary in the discussion you are
> having
> > with Paul.It was a shock word used by me....to help Paul examine what kind
> of
> dark techniques he was using to discredit me, and to expose the
> character of hypocritical moles.
Oh! You care about me, right?
What a crock of shit, Star! Try being honest with yourself
for a change. There is a stink around your words toward me,
and it ain't no stink of friendly concern. Examine your
own hypocritical motives!
> Well Adelard...when the emperor has no clothes on it is perfectly
> acceptable to point that out...but then others would prefer to stick
> their heads up their bums and pretend all is right in hell (you know -
> being an Epselom and thinking you are happy - even if the light of day
> doesn't shine there).>>
Yes, Star. And this is the right I excercise when I point out
that you have no powers of spiritual discernment, and even
have trouble with getting workaday facts right.
*You* are the emporer with no clothes, in my opinion.
Paul
Paul Hammond
>
> Like I said Paul (or whoever you are ao mole), here's an ordinary fact
> for you -you look through poohpooh colored glasses from hanging off
> kbg's bum so your findings are meaningless and worthless to people who
> are seeking Truth.
>
Opinion. Not fact.
> > According to you, myself, Karen and everyone else ought
> > to just lie down in the road to get f***ed over by
> > your prophet, Nima?
> >
> > I don't think so!
>
>
> > > > Nima's move was not that good too, a self-proclaimed Manifestation of God.
> > >
> > > The Spirit was moving Nima..
> >
> > I thought the current story was that "it was all a joke"??
> >
What? No comment on this? Come on, Star, you're not usually
one for keeping quiet! Cat got your tongue?
> > >..so why decry him for that one should
> > > wonder? Adelard the Spirit is like a body of flowing water...if it
> > > encounters a rock blocking it's flow....it just moves around the rock.
> > >
> >
> > Yeah, and you and Nima are the biggest couple of rocks the
> > spirit has ever
>
> You might call us 'rocks' but we in NZ and OZ call the likes of you
> 'dags' (turds hanging off the hairs of sheep bums). And btw my name
> 'Saffa' does mean 'rock' or 'steadfast in the spirit' in Arabic -
> which is the truth.
>
Well, I'm thinking of a rock as being "something that is in
the way", like in your original image. But, you know, consitency,
Star, different planets.
> > > > What if he had 10,000 of followers in his first week of his proclamation,
> > > > Star? Don't you think he could have created a sect.
> > >
> > > A sect of what? He named an indpendent Path of Englightenment
> > > (Bayaniyyah)...but we both agreed it was better for him to live to
> > > fight another day in that he was receiving death threats. As such he
> > > called the movement an 'experiment' to pacify those who rose to
> > > persecute.
> >
> > Hmm. That's not the way your saviour tells it, Bethikins.
> >
> > Do you have his permission to misrepresent this way?
>
> Looks like that brown stuff is now oozing into your memory centers as
> Nima explained to you we were co-creators of Bayaniyyah and therefore
> we both have a say:
>
So, you connived at his lying to the rest of the group?
Still not looking good for your record on honesty.
You were either Nima's dupe, or a liar. Which was it?
> >
> > Whatever Nima did has no bearing, and throws no light on
> > "the human component of the Manifestations". That is a
> > concept that your saviour now wholly rejects. He rejects
> > religion tout-court,
>
> Oh my goodness you are now under His Spell.....as you are using His
> terminology "tout court" which appeared in two of His recent
> posts...
"tout court" is the french for "completely". Nima didn't
invent it.
It's like the Frasier video I was watching yesterday, with
Dr Honey Snow, the writer of self-help books:
Daphne: Oh, nothing in life is a sure thing, but Dr. Snow has a
little saying: Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Frasier: She better copyright that before some unscrupulous hack
steals it.
emulation is a true sign of Respect and flattery...kneel next
> time and maybe He will bless you with his promised visit to your neck
> of the woods and you can kiss his .....ring....or whatever.
>
I think you are getting my and your relationships with
Nima mixed up.
Just a small reminder - I am the one he calls a limey
bastard AO mole - racism and lies all mixed up in
the same wholesome package. You are the one who kneels
on the ground waiting for the chance to kiss his
ringpiece.
btw - thanks for not responding to the substantive
point - I'm so pleased you agree with me that Nima's
actions have nothing to do with throwing any light
on the "human sides of the Manifestation". How
could they have, since you admit that the whole
charade was something you and he cooked up together
just in order to yank our collective chains!
Paul
Cal E. Rollins
little jibes. However, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the
doubt, since the Guardian loved your people and thought you represented
something special. I'd never dispute what the Guardian has said, but
you're sorely testing me. I pray to overcome this test.
Yes, by the way, I am black. I can't think of anybody saying they were
black unless they were--except white folk hoping to claim reparations
for slavery. Most of the people I know who don't look black deny they
are black. I'd show you my birth certificate to prove my ethnicity,
however I'm afraid you'd use it in some way. At the very least
broadcast how old I am and learn my mother's maiden name so you could
purloin my identity. This is going on from these lists, especially this
one where we seldom know who's really who. I will not be intimidated to
reveal my vital statistics for your unsavory use, thank you. You be
nasty; I be nasty back.
Now, what is there you don't like that I'm saying? That there were
black slaves in the Holy Households? Well, Susan will verify that for
you. And if you don't believe her look at the two letters on Internet
from the Research Department that will back Susan up. Of course, we
know the RD is not the Universal House of Justice but at least they tell
It what's going on in our history, so I guess they're pretty reliable.
I'd like to know if any of my ancestors could have been dawnbreakers.
Were any of yours? One Persian told me that his great-aunt was a black
slave, and I've been excited to hear more about her. --Cal
Cal E. Rollins
kilt-exposed leg, that you're the Court Dunce. So don't go calling
other folk jesters and stuff. Remember it was the jester who told the
truth and made the King and Queen introspective. The Dunce just sat
around being ill-humored and dumb with a pointee cap on his head that
read, in modern parlance, "What me worry?" Get some fun in your life.
By the way, we just heard Continental Airlines has cancelled flights
from Hong Kong until the SARS thing is over. I hope you're busy
contacting WHO with your cure, because it's scaring the hell out of us
on the West Coast. Not your cure but SARS. Every time I hear somebody
cough on the bus or underground I panic and say, "Baha'u'llah, don't let
it be SARS!"--Cal
Cal E. Rollins
I gave that up and chose to dwell in realm of the spirit and have left
the hypocrisy, fisticuffs, and truly evil behaviour to you and your
comrades in the Covenant. But not to worry. I'm slowly slipping and
suspect I'll come down to the Nethermost Fire where you may be and act
out my old self. Dermod's repentence was inspiring but you and Adelard
are evaporating the inspiration fast. --Cal
Starr*
> > time and maybe He will bless you with his promised visit to your neck
> > of the woods and you can kiss his .....ring....or whatever.
> >
>
> I think you are getting my and your relationships with
> Nima mixed up.
Not at all....you're just doing the Baha'i twist and doublespeak again
and again - and you claimed you weren't a baha'i ----hahahaha AO mole.
> Just a small reminder - I am the one he calls a limey
> bastard AO mole - racism and lies all mixed up in
> the same wholesome package.
Well at least his replies are helping you keep employed...if only by
the kbg.
>You are the one who kneels
> on the ground waiting for the chance to kiss his
> ringpiece.
I've never knelt in my life...but like stalker, you sound experienced.
Unfortunately for you, you are not kissing rings as much as asses
(kbg), you dag you, or is the name of those beattles that eat dung
called - scarabs?
> btw - thanks for not responding to the substantive
> point - I'm so pleased you agree with me that Nima's
> actions have nothing to do with throwing any light
> on the "human sides of the Manifestation".
The experiment demystified false constructs of glorifying men as
manifestations.
So you are a horse with blinkers on...you can lead the horse to water
but you can't make them drink syndrome. In plain language you saw a
person who could produce Manifestation-like Gems of Wisdom and then
you saw that same person capable of being 'Nima the man'. So you are
the caliber of person that if they saw Jesus floating on a cloud would
persecute Him and say he is not Christ....do they call that
anti-Christ or Susan Maneck?
How
> could they have, since you admit that the whole
> charade was something you and he cooked up together
> just in order to yank our collective chains!
Whether it turned out to be an experiment or not ----- does not mean
it isn't true silly.....looks like you'll fall for anything - We both
told you that there were death threats and pressure put on
family...but like a fierce little bullpit dog you keep hanging on to
the pant leg....ask your master to call off the sic dag!
Starr*
You didn't make a mistake...and we both know it.
Adelard Rubangura
> Thank you so much for your support, Adelard!
>
> It is much appreciated.
You are welcome, Paul. No Problemo! :-)
> This is a dirty, stupid fight - my own fault, there's a lot
> of truth in the adage of getting dirty when you fight with
> pigs on their level, and Nima and his acolyte are two of
> the dirtiest fighters around here (that *one* you mention
> excepted - but he's not much of a fighter, in fact).
>
> It is a very low tactic to go around accusing your
> opponents of racism, when nothing they have said
> could possibly lead to that suggestion.
>
> Anyway, I have found you to be one of the sincerest,
> sweetest regular posters around here.
I am trying hard :-). I think it's just a reflection of yourself, Paul.
Thank you.
> > As a Baha'i, I would say there is one thing to say that you are having
> > spiritual experience, and there is an other one not to be in harmonie
and
> > reject the source of all the divine inspirations which is the Spirit of
Age
> > for this day, The Most Great Spirit, Baha'u'llah himself.
> >
> > Baha'u'llah said that anyone who come before a thousand years is an
> > imposter.
> >
>
> I'm sure that Nima's recent proclamation here offended you
> more than many - but I don't recall you getting nasty
> about it.
Paul, I was far away from this newsgroup when Nima called for his
proclamation. When I came here I was stunned and worried for his well being
and I told him the move he was taking was nothing but horrible. I directly
knew what his family was going through, because mine went through the same
horrible experience when my brother began his nonsense adventure of visions.
> Several people had genuine concern for Nima's mental
> well-being at that point, though since he classifies
> them as "ex-friends" I guess he could care less.
Yep, when I first learned what was going on, I knew directly that he was
going through what some of the Bayanis went through calling themselves the
return of Christ.
> Me, I was already an ex-friend. He tried bullying me on
> his private list, before peremptorially throwing me off,
> and then closing the list entirely. Then, after Karen
> started a new list to fill the gap, after he had
> announced his intention to have nothing further to
> do with us, his acolyte posted the archives to Nima,
> and he posted them here, fuming at us for daring
> to carry on without him.
> This is what caused his vitriol towards Karen - we
> had tried to pick someone who would *not* get up his
> nose - but as it turns out it would have made
> little difference to Nima - he just hates everyone
> equally who will not kow-tow to his leadership.
Nima should learn 101 Course on Baha'i Consultation :-). He might have read
the Baha'i Faith, but he may lack the deep spiritual and practical
understanding of the Baha'i Teachings. I believe you recall when Jesus said:
" They read, but they don't understand".
God Bless.
Adelard
NEMO418
> Opinion. Not fact.
The lady doth protest too much. Definitely fact and not opinion.
> How
> could they have, since you admit that the whole
> charade was something you and he cooked up together
> just in order to yank our collective chains!
Glad to hear your chain was seriously yanked, hence proving my
contention that you are a sucker, a chump and a jackass!
Nima
Paul Hammond
>
> > Opinion. Not fact.
>
> The lady doth protest too much. Definitely fact and not opinion.
>
She sure does! Couldn't you have found any capable and
competent followers?
> > How
> > could they have, since you admit that the whole
> > charade was something you and he cooked up together
> > just in order to yank our collective chains!
>
>
> Glad to hear your chain was seriously yanked, hence proving my
> contention that you are a sucker, a chump and a jackass!
>
So, Nima, let's have it from the Sayoshyant's mouth.
Was the lady of 1000 aliases, Letter of the Living
2003 your dupe, or your willing accesory to perpetrating
a lie?
She seems to believe in you more that you do - what a
silly woman!
Paul
Paul Hammond
> >
> > emulation is a true sign of Respect and flattery...kneel next
> > > time and maybe He will bless you with his promised visit to your neck
> > > of the woods and you can kiss his .....ring....or whatever.
> > >
> >
> > I think you are getting my and your relationships with
> > Nima mixed up.
>
>
> Not at all....you're just doing the Baha'i twist and doublespeak again
> and again - and you claimed you weren't a baha'i ----hahahaha AO mole.
>
Not only that, but I claimed I don't even believe in God!
Go figure!
Of course, since *you* know all about not taking people's
spurious religious claims seriously, I can well understand
your confusion and perplexity.
Me, I've always found telling the total truth at all
times to be the best way to avoid such confusion.
>
> > Just a small reminder - I am the one he calls a limey
> > bastard AO mole - racism and lies all mixed up in
> > the same wholesome package.
>
> Well at least his replies are helping you keep employed...if only by
> the kbg.
>
Is that the Karen Bacquet Gang, or what? I'm still at a loss
about that terminal "b".
You know that Karen is having trouble finding a full time
teaching job. Now she is paying me for this? LOLOL!
<snip>
>
>
> > btw - thanks for not responding to the substantive
> > point - I'm so pleased you agree with me that Nima's
> > actions have nothing to do with throwing any light
> > on the "human sides of the Manifestation".
>
> The experiment demystified false constructs of glorifying men as
> manifestations.
Except, it mystified you even more than you usually are.
Witness the appearance of "Letter of the Living 2003"
on a recent post from your computer.
So, if a lying Manifestation gives you a spurious title,
and then comes clean with his "only joking" line, the
title gets to still be true?
That seems like your two faces facing in two directions
at once to me.
Is Nima a prophet or a jester? You really can't have
it both ways.
Me, I prefer the theory that you are a dupe rather than
a liar - I don't think you have the brain cells for
the latter.
Don't worry, you just keep dodging the hard questions
and calling it "higher logic". We'll see through you
anyway.
> So you are a horse with blinkers on...you can lead the horse to water
> but you can't make them drink syndrome. In plain language you saw a
> person who could produce Manifestation-like Gems of Wisdom and then
> you saw that same person capable of being 'Nima the man'.
Nope. I didn't see any "gems of Wisdom". Only Crimson emeralds,
and the same old nasty vitriol.
Baha'u'llah, Jesus, Muhammad - they all didn't talk like that.
So you are
> the caliber of person that if they saw Jesus floating on a cloud would
> persecute Him and say he is not Christ....do they call that
> anti-Christ or Susan Maneck?
>
Umm. Didn't you admit that Nima's whole "revelation" was a
total lie? How does that make him the equivalent of Jesus,
even though he later came clean about his lies?
You're a bit confused. Since you know GOd's address, why
don't you get Nima to explain it for you...
>
> How
> > could they have, since you admit that the whole
> > charade was something you and he cooked up together
> > just in order to yank our collective chains!
>
> Whether it turned out to be an experiment or not ----- does not mean
> it isn't true silly....
It does mean it was truly silly.
>.looks like you'll fall for anything
You are confusing myself and yourself again.
You are the one that still writes "Letter of the Living
2003" on her posts. I never believed in Nima for a
second.
Ergo, I never fell for nothing.
- We both
> told you that there were death threats and pressure put on
> family..
I don't believe you. Produce evidence.
.but like a fierce little bullpit dog you keep hanging on to
> the pant leg....ask your master to call off the sic dag!
>
I'll keep hanging on to your pant legs. I'm hoping for
a bit of your orgasmic justice!
Paul
Starr*
> > Thank you so much for your support, Adelard!
> > Anyway, I have found you to be one of the sincerest,
> > sweetest regular posters around here.
>
I am trying hard :-). I think it's just a reflection of yourself,
Paul.
> Thank you.
Adelard this is very kind of you to love someone so much who says they
don't believe in God (Paul) - But as a Baha'i you should remember what
Baha'u'llah said "Never trust an Atheist" ;)
You write:
> Nima should learn 101 Course on Baha'i Consultation :-). He might have read
> the Baha'i Faith, but he may lack the deep spiritual and practical
> understanding of the Baha'i Teachings. I believe you recall when Jesus said:
> " They read, but they don't understand".
>
> God Bless.
> Adelard
Adelard - I found your message almost cruel - and truthfully I had
hoped for more, especially because you 'try' to sound righteous and
because of the background you claim. Yet I didn't want to be
patronizing to you in my mind; and then suddenly it became clear to me
what is causing our different levels of understanding. To help you
understand what that is I refer you to Scott Pecks "Stages of
Spiritual Growth" article appended to this post. I find from what you
have written that you appear to be primarily in the Number Two Stage
and cling to that Stage because of fear - a fear of loss of security
that I believed has been precipitated by oppression. In the same way
that Baha'is in the next life can not know the Holy souls on higher
planes than themselves Number Two's can not understand the advanced
stages of Number Threes and Fours - and because they can not
understand them they prefer to class them in the lower stage of Number
Ones. I feel this is what you have done with Nima and Myself (but then
you are new to the group and have jumped to judgements without being
privy to the 'search for Spritual Growth that has been going on in
these newsgroups during the past decade and can not speak or judge
from a position of being informed. In all fairness Peck does say that
no matter how advanced we become Spritually we retain residule of the
previous Stages and lapse into them from time to time. Here is the
article - enjoy:
Many times I have argued here that there are different levels of
understanding that one can derive from the Holy Writings according to
one's development therefore I like this discussion of M.Scott Peck, MD
on THE STAGES OF SPIRITUAL GROWTH in his book (Further along the Road
Less Traveled) that Rachel had pointed out to us so I am typing it up
for myself and for those who may find it useful. pages 119 -134
Starr*
THE STAGES OF SPIRITUAL GROWTH
Our unique human capacity for change and transformation is reflected
in our human spirituality. Thoroughout the ages deep thinking people
looking at themselve have come to discern that we are not all at the
same place spiritually or religiously. There are different stages of
spiritual growth or religious development. The person best known today
for writing on the subject is Professor James Fowler at Candler School
of Theology.
Fowler describes six stages of spiritual growth, which I have refined
into four, but we are saying essentially the same thing. His work is
much more scholarly than mine.......it slowly began to dawn on me that
we are not all at the same place spiritually and that there are these
different stages. We must look at them with caution and flexibility,
however, because God has this rather peculiar way of interfering with
my categories sometimes, and people do not always fall quite as neatly
into my psychospiritual pigeonholes as I might like them to do.
At the beginning - the bottom, if you wish - is Stage One, which I
label "chaotic/antisocial." This stage probably encompasses about
twenty percent of the population, including those whom I call people
of the lie. In general, this is a stage of absent spirituality and
people at this stage are utterly unprincipled. I call it antisocial
because while they are capable of pretending to be loving, actually
all of their relationships with their fellow human beings are
self-serving and covertly, if not overtly, manipulative. Chaotic
because, being unprincipled, they have no mechanism that might govern
them other than their own will. Since the unharnessed will can go this
way and day and that way the next, their being is consequently
chaotic. Because it is, the people in this stage will frequently be
found in trouble or difficulty, and often in jails or hospitals or out
on the street. Some of them however, may actually be quite
self-disciplined, from time to time, in the service of their ambition
and may rise to positions of considerable prestige and power. They may
even become presidents or famous preachers.
The people in Stage One may occasionally get in touch with the chaos
of their own being. And when they do, it is perhaps the single most
painful experience a human can have. Generally they just ride it out,
but if this painful experience continues, they may kill themselves,
and I think that some unexplained suicides may fall into this
category. Or occasionally, they may convert to Stage Two. Such
conversions are usually - I say usually because there are always
exceptions -very sudden and dramatic. It is as if God literally
reaches down and grabs that soul and yanks it up in a quantum leap.
Something astonishing happens to that person and it is usually totally
unconscious. If it could be made conscious, I thin it would be as if
that person said to himself or herself. "I am willing to do anything -
anything - in order to liberate myself from this chaos, even submit
myself to an institution for my governance."
And so it is that they convert to Stage Two, which I have labelled
"formal/institutional." I label it institutional because people in it
are dependent upon an institution for their governance. For some the
institution may be a prison. In such places, in my experience, there
is always a prisoner who, when the new psychiatrist comes in to work
in the prison, gathers a group of fellow inmates together for a group
therapy session, who is the warden's right-hand man, yet who somehow
manages never to get a shiv stuck between his ribs. He is a model
prisoner and a model citizen. Because he is so well adjusted in the
institution, he is always paroled at the first possible opportunity.
Immediately he becomes a walking crime wave, and within a week of his
parole, he is rearrested and put right back behind bars, where once
again he becomes a model citizen with the walls of the institution
around him to organise his being.
For others the institution may be the military. This is a profoundly
positive role the military plays in our and other societies. There are
tens of thousands of people who would lead chaotic lives were it not
for the rather paternalistic and in some ways maternalistic
structuring of the military..
For still others, the institution to which they submit themselves for
their governance may be a highly organized business corporation. But
for most people, it is the church. Indeed, the majority of churchgoers
fall into Stage Two, the formal/institutional stage. Although there
are gradations and nothing is absolutely cut-and-dried within these
stages, certain things tend to characterize people's religious
behavior in Stage Two. As mentioned, they are dependent on the
institution of the church for their governance, and I call it formal
because they are very attached to the forms of the religion.
Stage Two people become very, very upset if someone starts changing
forms or rituals, altering their liturgy or introducing new hymns. For
example, in the Episcopal church, in the mid-seventies, it was decided
that there might be some alternative ways to say the same things on
different Sundays, and many people were so up in arms that a
full-blown schism resulted.......it's no wonder that people in Stage
Two become so upset when the forms of their religion are changed,
because it's precisely those forms that they depend upon to some
extent for their liberation from chaos.
Another thing that tends to characterize people's religious behavior
in this stage is that their vision of God is almost entirely that of
the external being. They have very little understanding of that half
of God which lives inside each of us----what theologians term
immanent----the dwelling divinity within the human spirit. They almost
totally think of God as up there, out there. They generally envision
God along the masculine model, and while they believe Him to be a
loving being they also ascribe to Him a certain kind of punitive power
which He is not afraid to use on appropriate occasions. It is a vision
of God as a giant benevolent cop in the sky. And in many ways, this is
exactly the kind of God that people in Stage Two need.
Let's say that two people who are firmly rooted in Stage Two meet
marry and have children. They raise their children in a stable home
because stability tends to be of great value to people in Stage Two.
They treat their children with dignity and importance because the
church says that children are important and should be treated with
dignity. And while their love may be a little bit legalistic or
unimaginative at times, nonetheless they are loving because the church
tells them to be loving and teaches them a little something about how
to be loving.
What happens to a child raised in such a stable, loving home and
treated with dignity and importance? That child will absorb his
parent's religious principles ---be they Christian, Buddhist, Muslim,
or Jewish---like mother's milk. By the time child reaches adolescence,
these principles will have become virtually engraved on his heart, or
"internalized," to use the psychiatric term. But once this happens,
they will have become principled, self-governing human beings who no
longer need to depend upon an institution for their governance. It is
at this time, which in healthy human development is usually at
adolescence, that they start saying , "Who needs these silly myths and
superstitions and this fuddy-duddy old institution?" They will then
begin---often to their parent's utterly unnecessary horror and
chagrin-----to fall away from the church, having become doubters or
agnostics or atheists. At this point they have begun to convert to
Stage Three, which I call "skeptic/individual."
Again speaking generally, people in Stage Three are ahead of people in
Stage Two in their spirituality, although they are not religious in
the ordinary sense of the word. They are not the least bit
antisocial. Often they are deeply involved in society. They are the
kinds of people who tend to make up the backbone of organisations like
Physicians for Social Responsibility or the ecology movement. They
make committed and loving parents. Frequently they are scientists, and
certainly scientific-minded. Invariably they are truth seekers. And if
they seek truth deeply enough, and widely enough, as widely enough, as
I've suggested, they do begin to find what they are looking for, and
get to fit enough pieces to truth to catch glimpses of the big picture
and see that it is not only very beautiful, but that it strangely
resembles many of those primitive myths and superstitions their Stage
Two parents or grandparents believed in. And it is at this point that
they begin to convert to Stage Four, which I call "mystic/communal."
I use the word "mystical" to describe this stage even though it is a
word that is hard to define and one that has been given a pejorative
connotation in our culture and is usually misdefined. But certain
things can be said about mystics. They are people who have seen a kind
of cohesion beneath the surface to things. Throughout the ages,
mystics have seen connections between men and women, between humans
and other creatures, between people walking the earth and those who
aren't even here. Seeing that a kind of interconnectedness beneath the
surface, mystics of all cultures and religions have spoken to things
in terms of unity and community. They also have always spoken in terms
of paradox.
Mystical has a its root the word mystery. Mystics are people who love
mystery. They love to solve mysteries, and yet at the same time, they
know the more they solve, the more mystery they are going to
encounter. But they are very comfortable living in a world of mystery
whereas people in Stage Two are most uncomfortable when things aren't
cut-and-dried.
These principles hold true not only for Christianity and not only in
the United States but in all nations, cultures, and religions. Indeed,
one of the things that characterize all of the world's greatest
religions is that they seem to have a capacity to speak to people in
both Sage Two and Stage Four as if the very teachings of a given
religion
have two different translations. To take an example from Judaism,
Psalm III ends with "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom."
At Stage Two this is translated to mean, "When you start fearing that
big cop in the sky, you really wise up." That's true. At Stage Four it
is translated to mean, "The awe of God shows you the way to
enlightenment." And that's also true.
"Jesus is my Saviour" is a favorite statement among Christians and
provides another example. Among Stage Two people, that tends to be
translated to mean that Jesus is a kind of fairy godmother who can
rescue me whenever I get in trouble as long as I can remember to call
upon His name. And that's true; He will do exactly that. Whereas in
Stage Four, People read it to mean that Jesus, through His life and
death, taught me the way that I myself must follow for my salvation.
And that is also true.
As I noted, this quality of dual translation hold true not just for
Christianity and Judaism but also for Islam, Taoism, Buddhism, and
Hinduism. Indeed, I think it is what makes them great religions. They
all give room for both the Stage Two and the Stage Four believers.
ANTAGONISM AND FAITH
The greatest problem of these different stages - and the biggest
reason it is so important to understand them -- is the sense of threat
that exists between people at such different points on the spiritual
journey.
To some extent, we all may be threatened by the people still in the
stage we have just left, because we may not yet be sure or secure in
our new identity. But for the most part the threat goes the other way,
and we particularly tend to be threatened by people in the stages
ahead of us.
People in Stage One will often tend to appear like cool
cats----seemingly nothing bothers them very much. But if you are able
to penetrate the facade, you find they are terrified of virtually
everything and everyone.
People in Stage Two are not particularly threatened by the Stage One
people: the sinners. The love the sinners, seeing them as fertile
ground for their ministrations. But they tend to be threatened by the
skeptic individualists of Stage Three, and more than anything, by the
Stage Four people, who seem to believe in the same things they believe
in and yet believe them with a kind of freedom they find absolutely
terrifying.
Stage Three people, the skeptics, are not particularly threatened by
the unprincipled people of Stage One, or by the Stage Two people, who
they simply toss off as superstitious idiots. But once again, they
tend to be threatened by the Stage Four people, who seem to be
scientific-minded like them and know how to write good footnotes, yet
still somehow believe in this crazy God business. And if you mentioned
the word "conversion" to the Stage Three people, they would see a
vision of a missionary arm-twisting a heathen and they would go
through the roof.
I have used the word "conversion" rather freely to describe the
transition from one stage of spirituality to the next. It is, however,
a markedly different experience in each case. Conversions from Stage
One of Stage Two are usually very sudden, very dramatic. Conversions
from Stage Three to Stage Four, on the other hand, tend to be gradual.
For example, I was in the company of Paul Vitz, the author of
Psychology as Religion, when he was asked when had become a Christian.
He scratched his head and said, "Well, it was along about somewhere
between '72 and '76." Compare that to the Stage Tow man who says, "It
was eight p.m. on the night of the seventeenth of August!" Obviously,
a different sort of phenomenon is going on here.
I have also spoken to Stage Three people---the skeptics and
doubters-----as being spiritually ahead of the vast majority of
churchgoers of Stage Two. These people have also under gone a
"conversion"---that is, a conversion to skepticism and doubt, which is
something equivalent to what the Bible calls a "circumcision of the
heart." They are ahead of the Stage Two man who acknowledges Jesus to
be his Lord and Saviour at exactly eight p.m. on the night of the
seventeenth of August, but may yet have to undergo a conversion to
peace or to justice. Conversion is not a onetime thing. Like any kind
of spiritual growth, it is a continuing process. I expect and hope to
continue to be converted until the day I die.
APPEARANCES CAN BE DECEIVING
I'd like us to be reminded at this point how God can interfere with my
categories, and how we need to be both cautious and flexible when we
make diagnoses of where our fellow humans--and we ourselves---fall in
this spectrum of spiritual growth. There are quite a number of people
who superficially appear to be in one stage when, in fact, they are
someplace else entirely. For example, there are people who attend
church and who, to the naked eye, appear to be in Stage Two, but who
inwardly are dissatisfied with their religion and are skeptical of it
and have become scientific minded. This is so common that entire
congregations have been created which are only faintly religious. A
lot of Methodist and Presbyterian ministers in wealthy suburban
communities don't talk to their congregations about God on Sunday
mornings, but about psychology. God forbid they should talk about
God. It would be too threatening. Then again, there are people who
talk about God but are not the least bit religious or spiritual. These
are people who may appear to be in Stage Four, who can wear Stage Four
veneer----like certain cult leaders----but who, in fact are Stage One
criminals.
Similarly, not all scientists are Stage Three people. They too know
how to write good footnotes, but only in an extremely narrow area of
research where they have the scientific doctrine down so pat that they
feel very safe while ignoring all the mystery of the world. Such
scientists are really Stage Two people.
There are also people whom psychiatrists refer to as borderline
personalities. One of the things that characterize them is that they
seem to have a foot in Stage One and foot in Stage Two, and a hand in
Stage Three, and finger in Stage Four. They're all over the place.
They lack coherency, and that, in a sense, is why we call them
boderline: they don't have much in the way of border or boundaries.
Furthermore, there are people who might begin to enter a more advanced
stage, then slip backwards. We actually have a name for the person who
slips back from Stage Two to Stage One---- "backslider". Typically, he
might be a man who ran around drinking and gambling and chasing after
women and leading a dissolute life, until one day he bumped into some
fundamentalist folk who had a chat with him and he was saved. For the
next couple of years, he leads a sober, God fearing, righteous life
and then he vanishes one day, and nobody knows where he is until six
months later when he is discovered back in the gutter or gambling
house. His church friends talk with him and he is saved again and does
pretty well for another couple of years, until he backslides once
more.
There are also people bouncing back and forth between Stage Two and
Stage Three. An example of such a person might be a churchgoer who
says, "Of course I still believe in God. I mean, look how beautiful
nature is---those hills turning green and the white clouds flying and
flowers blooming. Obviously, no human intelligence could have created
such beauty, so there must have been a divine intelligence that set
all this in motion millions and millions of years ago. But you know,
it's just as beautiful out on the golf course as it is in church on
Sunday morning and I can worship my God out on the golf course just as
well."
so this man chooses the gold course over church. And all is well,
until his business undergoes a mild reversal and he says, "Oh my God,
I haven't been going to church! I haven't been praying!" He goes back
to church and starts praying very hard, until after a couple of years
there is an upturn in the economy---for all I know perhaps because
he's been praying so hard----and he begins to drift back onto his
Stage Three golf course.
Then there are people bouncing between Stage Three and Stage Four. I
had a friend like that named Theodore. By day Theodore had an
absolutely brilliant scientific mind with a precisely honed rational
capacity, and was probably just about the dullest human being I ever
had to listen to. But occasionally in the evening Theodore would have
a little bit to drink or he would smoke a little bit of pot and all of
a sudden he would start talking about life and death and meaning and
glory. He would become so spirit-filled that I would sit at his feet
enthralled. But the next morning he would come in to se me and say, "I
don't know what got into me last night. I was talking about the
craziest things. I've got to stop drinking or smoking pot." I don't
mean to bless the use of drugs but simply to indicate that in his
particular case, they seemed to loosen him up enough to flow in the
direction in which he was being called, but from which , in the cold
clear light of day, he would retreat in abject terror right back into
this accustomed Stage Three rationality.
HUMAN DEVELOPMENT AND SPIRITUAL GROWTH
While it is possible when we are not yet firmly rooted to backslide,
it is not possible for us to skip over any of the shapes of spiritual
development, any more than it is possible to lip over any of the
purely psychological stages of normal human development. and in fact,
these two patterns of growth follow a similar progression. For
example, children up until the age of five or so are pretty much
Stage One creatures. They haven't yet internalized the difference
between right and wrong, and they will lie, cheat, steal, and
manipulate with abandon. It's hardly remarkable that many of them grow
up to be adult liars, cheats, thieves, and manipulators. In fact, its
harder to explain how so many of them grow up to be honest, decent,
law-abiding folk.
From about the age of five to twelve, children tend to be Stage Two
creatures. They may be mischievous, but they're not seriously
rebellious. Basically, they think that the way Mommy and Daddy want
things to be done is the way things ought to be done. They are great
imitators and followers. But with adolescence, all hell breaks loose.
Everything that Mommy and Daddy say----which always used to be like
the word of God----is now subject to rebuttal and rejection. This is
the stage of individual questioning and of skepticism. And Stage Four
cannot begin until adolescence has been worked through.
If none of the stages can be skipped over, movement through certain
stages can proceed more swiftly for some people than for others. For
instance, I have a friend who was raised in a Stage Two Irish
Catholic, and when he was fifteen, just as he was entering his
adolescent rebellion period, his father's company transferred the
family to Amsterdam. There my friend was sent to Dutch Jesuit school.
The Dutch Jesuits are very sophisticated people. Indeed, one of the
Pope John Paul II's enduring problems has been to figure out how to
excommunicate all of Holland, because the entire country leans
remarkable toward a Stage Four culture. So my friend fell into the
hands of these sophisticated and accepting Jesuits, who encouraged his
doubt, and led him in his doubting. When he came back from Amsterdam
at the age nineteen, he was already in early Stage Four.
While it is possible to move quickly through the stages, it is also
quite possible to get stuck. Years ago when I was a consultant to a
convent, I interviewed their postulants before they were clothed as
novices, the first very formal process of determining whether one is
really cut out to be a monk or nun. I remember one such postulant in
particular, a woman in her mid-forties, whom I was asked to interview
because the novice mistress was concerned about her; while she was an
ideal postulant, the other postulants and novices just didn't like her
that much.
As I was interviewing this woman, it hit me that it was not like
having a forty-five-year-old woman in my office. Her carriage and
manner were more like those of a slightly sill eight-year-old girl.
When I asked her about her spirituality, what I heard didn't sound
original. It sounded like some good little girl reeling off her
well-learned catechism. Being a psychiatrists, after a while I said,
of course, "Tell me about your childhood." (the childhood story stunts
the experience of going through the adolescent rebellion stage and she
was stunted in Stage Two).
CHECK YOUR DUNGEON
Another important thing to know about the stages of spiritual growth
is that no matter how far we develop, all of us retain vestiges
earlier stages, just as we retain our vestigial appendix. There is a
Stage One segment lurking down in the dungeon of my personality ---
Scott Peck, the criminal---although I don't intend to let him get out.
Indeed, it is only because I recognize his existence that I can add
another cinder block to his cell every week or so. Nonetheless, it is
a very comfortable cell. It's got wall-to-wall carpeting and a color
TV, an sometimes in the evening when I'm in need of certain kinds of
street smarts, I may go down to that dungeon and talk with him,
keeping well to the other side of the bars.
Similarly, there is a Stage Two segment to my personality----the Scott
Peck who also in times of stress or strain would very much like to
have a big brother or big daddy around to give him some clear-cut,
black-and-white answers to life's difficult and ambiguous dilemmas,
who will take over the responsibility by providing me with formulas to
tell me exactly what I should do. Sometimes I keep him on bread and
water.
And similarly, there is a Stage Three Scott Peck, who in certain other
times of stress tends to regress and is tempted to lean on his
scientific side as opposed to relying on his spiritual side. I used to
tell people that if I was ever invited to address the American
Psychiatric Association of which the chances were like a snowball's in
Hell--- I would probably just talk about controlled studies and not
say anything about his immeasurable spirit business. But the truth of
the matter is that I was invited to speak to the American Psychiatry
Association an I generally managed to throw the Stage Three Scott Peck
right into the dungeon along with the Stage One Scott Peck.
Make no mistake about it. We all retain within us, no matter how far
we develop, vestiges of earlier stages our spirituality. So if you are
feeling smug right now, having convinced yourself you are safely
walking the righteous path of Stage Four, check your dungeon.
Conversely, if you're feeling either superior or inferior, it might be
helpful to realize that we all also contain within us traces-----the
lurking potential---of the more advanced stages. As Oscar Wilde once
put it, "Every saint has a past and every sinner a future."
.....remember .....Stage Four is the beginning.
Starr*
believe you really didn't get my point till now.
> Our Paul is one of the few guys here who have been trying hard to educate
> one sexist and racist guy who often post here. >
Wrong Adelard! Dead wrong! - Paul is a Number One on the Scott Peck
'Spiritual Growth Chart', self proclaimed 'Atheist' who is working on
behalf of the Baha'i Administration and KBG to discredit people who
are exposing falisty, iconoclasing, and standing for the true
principles rather than the antiodromia (opposite) that the present BF
has made of them and is practicing...whether you realize it or not -
you are upholding the opposite of what was invisioned.
> > Nima's move was not that good too, a self-proclaimed Manifestation of God.
> >>The Spirit was moving Nima....so why decry him for that one should
> wonder?
> >>
>
> As a Baha'i, I would say there is one thing to say that you are having
> spiritual experience, and there is an other one not to be in harmonie and
> reject the source of all the divine inspirations which is the Spirit of Age
> for this day, The Most Great Spirit, Baha'u'llah himself.
What was rejected was the human componet - Mirza Husayn Ali - not the
Glory of God of the Maid of Heaven that came through - As soon as a
Message comes through humans start corrupting it through changing a
word, a translation, the meaning to suit there own means.....and
Baha'is need to know this so they don't become bogged down in dogma
and miss the true intended Spirit.
Now that I realize your awareness is in the Number Two Category I
understand that my saying this could be upsetting for you - But you
should realize that TRB is a place where Baha'i Dogma is being
iconoclasted and it may be too tough for you to handle. Perhaps you
should only read: Brian, Paul, Pat, Susan, and the like if you want to
stay 'safe'.
> Baha'u'llah said that anyone who come before a thousand years is an
> imposter.
That is pure nonsense and most likely a mistranslation or fabrication
of Arabic - To think humanity would be left for a thousand years
without any fresh Spirit ---- Please think about it.
>
> <<Adelard the Spirit is like a body of flowing water...if it
> encounters a rock blocking it's flow....it just moves around the rock.>>
>
> Maybe I should introduce you to my brother :-). He is a Christian and says
> that he receives divine dreams which contain messages for the world. When he
> came to the west, he had some few followers. He would not mind at all to
> have you, as far as I am concerned.
I realize you are trying to put me down here - but if you have been
reading me at all you will know full well I am my own person --- a
freelancer who believes herself to be the created and the co-creator -
You know made in the image of God and 'Look within and you will find
Me standing there Mighty Powerful and Selfsubsisting' (maybe people
don't get it till they move out of the Number Two limitations).
> Death threats? From who? Do you have any evidence?
Yes, and I have turned it into the police and elsewhere.
>I find it hard to believe what you say.
Adelard - I don't care whether you believe me or not...you asked a
question and I gave a reason and whether you accept it or not does not
change the reality.
> As I stated above, Starr*, I didn't believe that Nima is not prophet
> because he may commit sins and that he is a human, but because he is not in
> harmony with the source of all Divine inspirations of this age, Baha'u'llah.
Adelard - I never said he was a Prophet - he did - what I did say was
that I recognized that he was being used to bring forth Beauty and
Truth....and now it seems 'to kick ass'.
> ***Adelard, please tell which sect you created....and what the 'easy'
> methodolgy was/is. You do have my interest now.***>>
> >>
>
> My brother tried to create one, and had some followers as I told you above.
>
> <<> I believe his word though, that he was playing just a game.
> Even if it was an experiment....it was growing....and helped a lot of
> people...so maybe had it been allowed to flourish it would have
> created a workable prototype. Some Bayaniyyah's feel that it's
> doctrine, no matter how simple, liberated their thinking. So it was a
> game that worked for some. :)
> >>
>
> What did you gain from Nima, message?
What you fail to realize is that it was the brain-child of both of us
as Nima put it. The Effort put us in touch with our personal 'powers'
and I experienced and manifested what you might call miracles through
it's creation. Once being in the Garden it is hoped one can always
find their way back to that sacred spot. Even tonite I was chanting
"She is God the light of the living love in the heavens and in the
earth" from the Bayaniyyah as I walked by the beach at sunset...and
indeed many worlds opened up to me that I had not experience
previously. The main teaching of Bayaniyyah ---the first commandment
is "Know Thyself". All I can tell you is that it works for me. You can
find those teachings elsewhere but as it is laid out in the Bayaniyyah
it has layered levels that are meaningful to me --- and that is what
counts.
> For your record, Starr*, since Africa, I happened to be in minority when
> living in Africa. Now I live in USA, and I am a minority. So, you can
> understand what I know about my experience about this sick world. I like
> just to be fair.
How can you be 'fair' when you are not informed of all the facts and
background - and how can any person know what is true when everything
is so relative...that is unless you are the Onipotent One of all
Ones...... In the BF, like most of this world, there is great duality
and paradox here - in all 'fairness' you would have to agree wouldn't
you?
>
> <<<You sound like you would be a very good candidate to be used by the AO
> to off set their purposeful discrimination against the poor Blacks of
> the world. I have personal experience of witnessing their doing that
> with the Aborigines of Australia as well as the Blacks of South
> Carolina..>>
>
> I can't trust you, Starr*, you know you are here just to bash the AO.
You don't have to trust me Adelard - it is just a matter of fact and
all you have to do is personal investigation.....like how many Blacks
are in the BF where they are the minority and who are the people in
charge in the AO in the countries where they are not the minority? -
and what happened to the ones who enrolled...aside from the tokens
etc.
>I used
> to be involved in street teaching like what happened in South Carolina, so I
> know how it may not that easier to deepen new believers who declared in such
> circumstance.
Some deepening is brainwashing....not every one who recognizes
Baha'u'llah wants to take on a load of manure! and they retain the
right to 'think' for themselves.
> >>.so yes...you would be a treasured token to be used up
> front (which is nothing new if you look at who becomes the Secretaries
> of the NSA's - Mitchell and Hendersen in the USA, and Dubin in Oz, and
> so forth at the ITC and UHJ - Blacks who play ball with the Iranian
> Pahlavists in control used up front to do the dirty work). I hope you
> are not one of them....but do sound vulnerable to the MO.>>>
>
> I would expect you say such things, Starr*.
Well Adelard, now that I realize you are in the Number Two Stage I
think you are playing at your true level here on trb.
> Here is what Shoghi Effendi says:
>
> "As to those verses which He either dictated or wrote Himself, their number
> was no less remarkable than either the wealth of material they contained, or
> the diversity of subjects to which they referred. A vast, and indeed the
> greater proportion of these Writings were, alas, lost irretrievably to
> posterity. No less an authority than Mirza Aqa Jan, Bahá'u'lláh's
> amanuensis, affirms, as reported by Nabil, that by the express order of
> Bahá'u'lláh, hundreds of thousands of verses, mostly written by His own
> hand, were obliterated and cast into the river. 'Finding me reluctant to
> execute His orders,' Mirza Aqa Jan has related to Nabil, 'Bahá'u'lláh would
> reassure me saying: 'None is to be found at this time worthy to hear these
> melodies.' Not once, or twice, but innumerable times, was I commanded to
> repeat this act.'" (God Passes By, 138).
>
Hmmmmm so humankind should stay spiritually unevolved for a thousand
years or so ----way to go Adelard
Khoda Hafez
Starr*
Starr*
Number one dag -----
> Is that the Karen Bacquet Gang, or what? I'm still at a loss
> about that terminal "b".
Well you could say it stands for 'buckett' so I hear tell -> ksbg
> > The experiment demystified false constructs of glorifying men as
> > manifestations.
>
> Except, it mystified you even more than you usually are.
>
> Witness the appearance of "Letter of the Living 2003"
> on a recent post from your computer.
I have long claimed that I represent the living *Spirit of the
Equality of Women* and you know that from being on Z19 where I signed
my name as Hertha, Inanna, Tahirih, and in with you - Kali
> Is Nima a prophet or a jester? You really can't have
> it both ways.
Jeeze.....such tunnel vision thinking....of course it can be both
wayz.
> > So you are a horse with blinkers on...you can lead the horse to water
> > but you can't make them drink syndrome. In plain language you saw a
> > person who could produce Manifestation-like Gems of Wisdom and then
> > you saw that same person capable of being 'Nima the man'.
>
> Nope. I didn't see any "gems of Wisdom".
That's because you are a Number One on the Scott Peck's ' Four Stages
of Spiritual Growth Chart' and as a cponsequence you can not
understand levels above your own...in the same way that you can Not
know what a person who has an IQ above 100 knows.
> Baha'u'llah, Jesus, Muhammad - they all didn't talk like that.
Yah, like you would know or comprehend.
> I'll keep hanging on to your pant legs. I'm hoping for
> a bit of your orgasmic justice!
Not a chance....you've had your fun.....go back to the ksbg!
Starr*
Starr*
>
> >>>>And you invective is still unimaginative and weak. Bottoms and
> >>>>references to buggery do not bug better buggers.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Yep - You are the BBBBS (Biggest Best Brian Bugger Stalker) who keeps
> >>>the vituperation alive on behalf of the Baha'i Administration as a
> >>>diversion from real issues.....go bugger go!
> >
> >
> >
> > Starr*-Scar(high point in the heaven of understanding)-----
>
> I would prefer to refer to you as clod-ee-aww, and invoke the image of a
> donkey braying on the clod. That would surely be more appropriate.
>
> Brian
Oh Brian such true love - guess you didn't like being called a
'jackass' so with all your clever invective you came up with the above
imaginations ----:)~ Boring! Today you've earned another "B" -
BBBBbs(Boring Biggest Best Bugger brian Stalker) - go brian go! I
guess you should pick on someone your own size for a change - you know
bigger better bugger being your cry!
Really you can go back into retirement - I don't see why they drug you
out - except to entertain the troops.
Still wearing my Scar of Valor in Her Name!
Starr*
Starr*
Cal and Adelard - Here is an old discussion about Baha'i Black history
coming to light and how important it is....Of course the BF down
played the importance of Locke's contributions because of his being
homosexual.
Individuals don't start revolutions, but an individual
can supply major information to a people that then
carry out a revolution in thinking about themselves.
Such an individual who contributed the most
information about the role Black people have had in
history was J. A. Rogers, or Joel Augustus Rogers, as
I remember. If I had to point to one individual who
supplied the most important information that Blacks
needed to know about their role in history, it
wouldn't be Locke, though his contribution was great.
It would be Rogers, who labored in the thirties and
forties to turn up the most amazing information that
had been suppressed or deliberately hidden from both
Blacks and Whites. Blacks have made thousands of
important contributions to human history(not to
mention starting it!!)and these contributions were
largely unknown before Rogers almost singlehandedly,
and with great personal effort, literally dug them up.
Before Rogers, it wasn't generally known that
Pushkin, the father of the modern Russian novel was
Black, or that Colette was Black, or Dumas, or that
there were Black members of many royal families in
Europe, or that Beethoven was referred to by a patron
as 'my fine Blackamoor'(though the jury is still out
on that one, the comment does exist). Tho its not my
favorite, Rogers' pamphlet 'One Hundred Amazing Facts
about the Negro'had seminal influence in getting this
important information to the Black masses, more than
any scholar could ever do(let's remember that the
masses don't read scholarly tomes).
Rogers had quite a literary output and one of his
truly outstanding works is a three volume work called
'Sex and Race'. Read it and, I guarantee you, you
will never be the same or think the same. Let's
celebrate Locke, the Scholar and member of the Baha'i
Faith, but let's learn more, lots more about this
explorer of Black Identity, J. A. Rogers, who by the
way was also a Baha'i and probably knew Locke, could
even have been influenced by Locke, or it could have
been that the influence went the other way round.
Let's investigate
In summary, if you find out about some contribution
that Blacks have made in history, the person who first
found that contribution out was most likely J.A.
Rogers. Put another way, I estimate that 95% or more
that is known about Blacks in history was discovered
by Rogers, so great was his search and his finding of
fact. Rogers and Locke both were infused with the
teaching of Baha'u'llah, whose central teaching was
the
'Oneness of Mankind'. I think this belief, which in
their time and ours was 'new' and challenging, gave
them energy and direction and a philosophical and
practical 'certainty' on which to stand. I'll send
more on Rogers later. Might be fun to just compile a
list of his voluminous 'discoveries', without which
the
the 'Black is Beautiful' movement would have been
delayed by many decades and would not have had the
force that it possessed when it finally fired up.
This man was a major contributor. By the way,(and
here I am uncertain)does anyone know if Rogers was
once connected to the American Anthropological
Association and was
even an officer, at a time when a Black man was not
allowed opportunity to be an 'out front' leader. I
will try to find this out, also; meanwhile, a member
of
the Baha'i Faith and a Black Man who made singular
contribution -- J.A. Rogers. Let's learn more about
him!
Starr*
Sekhmet
>"Susan Maneck " <sma...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20030402101030...@mb-fo.aol.com...
>> Say it again after April Fool's Day
>
>"it again"
>
>> and I'll be happy to accept your apology.
>
>And reciprocate with one o your own?
Well, if Susan would allow as to how she might have misinterpreted something
you said as "egging on" a person, especially since she can no longer provide
evidence of whatever it was you said, and if you would allow as to how Susan
doesn't make a habit of deliberately lying about stuff and therefore she
undoubtedly misinterpreted whatever it was you said, that would go a long way
toward reconciliation, wouldn't it? Much of the rest of the animosity between
the two of you seems to be the result of listening to malicious "old biddy"
gossip, on both sides (at least as far as I can tell), so in fairness it should
be relatively easy for both of you to drop that, I'd think.
--Sekhmet
Sekhmet
>I have long claimed that I represent the living *Spirit of the
>Equality of Women* and you know that from being on Z19 where I signed
>my name as Hertha, Inanna, Tahirih, and in with you - Kali
So if I sign myself "Sekhmet", which I've been doing for years, that must be a
hint to everyone that I really am an Egyptian battle goddess, eh?
Worship, and be afraid!
--Sekhmet
Sekhmet
>"Cal E. Rollins" <crol...@webtv.net> wrote in message
>news:15166-3E...@storefull-2338.public.lawson.webtv.net...
>> Sehkmet, stranger things have happened than Dermod getting in bed
>with
>> Susan or even on her bandwagon, true.
>
>Does anybody know if she snores?
Only her kittycat knows for sure! (if she has a kittycat, that is)
--Sekhmet
NEMO418
>
> That's "ladies!" Are you the alter ego of the DST?
No, but Karen certainly is.
Nima
Adelard Rubangura
> > sweetest regular posters around here.
>
I am trying hard :-). I think it's just a reflection of yourself,
Paul.
> Thank you.
don't believe in God (Paul) - But as a Baha'i you should remember what
Baha'u'llah said "Never trust an Atheist" ;) >>
>>
Maybe he doesn't believe in a God which may be a product of his own
imagination. I don't believe in that God either.
Just to let you know Starr*, I love you unconditional. I know whatever you
do, you are trying to be very righteous. We all do according to our
spiritual capacity.
<<You write:
> Nima should learn 101 Course on Baha'i Consultation :-). He might have
read
> the Baha'i Faith, but he may lack the deep spiritual and practical
> understanding of the Baha'i Teachings. I believe you recall when Jesus
said:
> " They read, but they don't understand".
>
> God Bless.
> Adelard
Adelard - I found your message almost cruel - and truthfully I had
hoped for more, especially because you 'try' to sound righteous and
because of the background you claim.>>
The truth hurts sometimes :-).
Starr*, I just want to let you know none is righteous in this world, we are
all trying our best as we can. We are lucky though in this Dispensation to
have Abdu'l'baha as our Role Model.
<<Yet I didn't want to be
patronizing to you in my mind; and then suddenly it became clear to me
what is causing our different levels of understanding. To help you
understand what that is I refer you to Scott Pecks "Stages of
Spiritual Growth" article appended to this post. I find from what you
have written that you appear to be primarily in the Number Two Stage
and cling to that Stage because of fear - a fear of loss of security
that I believed has been precipitated by oppression.
>>
You got it wrong, Starr*. Since I became a Baha'i and I don't have the kind
of fear I used to have. The Baha'i Faith empowers the mind and the spirit of
the believer. As for oppression, we are all oppressed in many different
ways. Currently, we are all slaved and oppressed by Multinational
Corporations and the Media Propaganda machine.
<< In the same way
that Baha'is in the next life can not know the Holy souls on higher
planes than themselves Number Two's can not understand the advanced
stages of Number Threes and Fours>>
As Baha'u'llah says: "none among the Manifestations of old, except to a
prescribed degree, hath ever completely apprehended.", if what you say is
right here, don't you think this may apply to you when you don't understand
the spiritual forces released by the Revelation of Baha'u'llah which animate
the Baha'i Administration Order. What you feel maybe just a reflection of
yourself.
I may be a mystic or whatever, but if I don't recognize the spiritual
potentialities of this Divine New World Order, in MHO, I may be on lower
stage of spirituality.
I believe the Beloved Shoghi Effendi was in the highest stage any human can
attain, because he could know and feel spiritually, while living in a
different time, the highest spiritual destiny, the Bahai World Community
will reach in it's glorious future.
<<- and because they can not
understand them they prefer to class them in the lower stage of Number
Ones.>>
Starr*, could that maybe apply to you too? You just put me in Number 2 :-)
<<I feel this is what you have done with Nima and Myself (but then
you are new to the group and have jumped to judgements without being
privy to the 'search for Spritual Growth that has been going on in
these newsgroups during the past decade and can not speak or judge
from a position of being informed.>>
Please forgive me if you think I judged both of you. But I like to say that
The Bahai Faith I know since becoming a Baha'i is not the same Baha'i Faith
I see some people talk about here. As your article says, some people are in
the lower stage and are unable to understand the spiritual meanings of the
teachings of the Baha'i Faith. This Faith is not a social movement, rather
it's a religion, or even more than that it's the Spirit of the Age.
This Faith inaugurates a new cycle of spiritual maturity never seen before.
If you are in lower stage of spiritual maturity, you would not understand
it, because it's said in the scriptures of the past ( ie. Bible ) at last
that God will come down on earth to lead all his nations and establish his
kingdom.
<< In all fairness Peck does say that
no matter how advanced we become Spritually we retain residule of the
previous Stages and lapse into them from time to time. Here is the
article - enjoy:
>>
Thanks, Starr*. I read the article.
God Bless.
Adelard
NEMO418
> She sure does!
Yeah, except you're the lady here, or the drag Queen - rather.
> Couldn't you have found any capable and
> competent followers?
I know your are unable to think in any other context, being yourself a
follower, but she's not my follower.
> > > How
> > > could they have, since you admit that the whole
> > > charade was something you and he cooked up together
> > > just in order to yank our collective chains!
> >
> >
> > Glad to hear your chain was seriously yanked, hence proving my
> > contention that you are a sucker, a chump and a jackass!
> >
>
> So, Nima, let's have it from the Sayoshyant's mouth.
>
> Was the lady of 1000 aliases, Letter of the Living
> 2003 your dupe, or your willing accesory to perpetrating
> a lie?
Get a life, jackass! Cyberspace is not the *real* world, stop taking
yourselves so seriously, and I didn't hear you talking about "lies
being perpetrated" when Dermod played his Francis Dingle or enth
practical joke. And, besides, how is this any of your business?
> She seems to believe in you more that you do - what a
> silly woman!
Maybe because she met me in person and knows what my real agenda is.
You and Karen's agenda, on the other hand, is pretty transparently
obvious to me and it is to serve Haifa - and even those who have been
watching you two for a while and do not post agree wholeheartedly.
Nima
Adelard Rubangura
As Baha'u'llah says: "none among the Manifestations of old, except to a
prescribed degree, hath ever completely apprehended this revelation."
"Adelard Rubangura" <Adelard_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b703rl$93djb$3...@ID-75457.news.dfncis.de...
Paul Hammond
> Paul, if you're refering to me as not much of a fighter, you're right.
Cal,
the references in Adelard's and my posts to "someone who I had
tried to educate about racism", and who I said was "not much
of a fighter" were references to Darrick Evenson.
I had not thought that you would see yourself in these comments.
Paul
Paul Hammond
> >
> > > Thank you so much for your support, Adelard!
>
> > > Anyway, I have found you to be one of the sincerest,
> > > sweetest regular posters around here.
> >
> I am trying hard :-). I think it's just a reflection of yourself,
> Paul.
> > Thank you.
>
> Adelard this is very kind of you to love someone so much who says they
> don't believe in God (Paul) - But as a Baha'i you should remember what
> Baha'u'llah said "Never trust an Atheist" ;)
>
> You write:
>
>
> > Nima should learn 101 Course on Baha'i Consultation :-). He might have read
> > the Baha'i Faith, but he may lack the deep spiritual and practical
> > understanding of the Baha'i Teachings. I believe you recall when Jesus said:
> > " They read, but they don't understand".
> >
> > God Bless.
> > Adelard
>
> Adelard - I found your message almost cruel - and truthfully I had
> hoped for more, especially because you 'try' to sound righteous and
> because of the background you claim. Yet I didn't want to be
> patronizing to you in my mind;
So, what has changed? Now it's alright for you to patronize
a black African? And you say *I* sound like a KKKer!!
I guess, there couldn't possibly be any shortcomings in
a person who practises "My Nima, right or wrong", and
cannot see *anything* cruel, harsh, or unusual in
her lover and God's perfect behaviour!
Paul
Paul Hammond
>
> Number one dag -----
>
> > Is that the Karen Bacquet Gang, or what? I'm still at a loss
> > about that terminal "b".
>
> Well you could say it stands for 'buckett' so I hear tell -> ksbg
>
typo.
I meant terminal "g" (for Gang?)
> > > The experiment demystified false constructs of glorifying men as
> > > manifestations.
> >
> > Except, it mystified you even more than you usually are.
> >
> > Witness the appearance of "Letter of the Living 2003"
> > on a recent post from your computer.
>
> I have long claimed that I represent the living *Spirit of the
> Equality of Women* and you know that from being on Z19 where I signed
> my name as Hertha, Inanna, Tahirih, and in with you - Kali
>
But, "Letter of the Living 2003" *must* be a reference to your
appointment by Nima as his number one fan and shit-stirrer.
So, do you believe that Nima is a new Manifestation for our
age, a spiritual leader, despite his professed atheism and
his new "it was all a joke" theory? Or is it true that you
were in on the deception from the beginning, but you still
like to style yourself in this grand way, hoping we won't
notice the contradiction between your assertion that you
always knew Nima was lying to us when he claimed to be
a Manifestation, but you are so attached to the
false title he gave you that you'll keep it anyway?
You still never answered my question about your involvement
with the prophet Nima, 2003. Which were you, dupe or liar?
>
> > Is Nima a prophet or a jester? You really can't have
> > it both ways.
>
> Jeeze.....such tunnel vision thinking....of course it can be both
> wayz.
>
Nope. Not except in your "higher logic", which really means
lies.
>
> > > So you are a horse with blinkers on...you can lead the horse to water
> > > but you can't make them drink syndrome. In plain language you saw a
> > > person who could produce Manifestation-like Gems of Wisdom and then
> > > you saw that same person capable of being 'Nima the man'.
> >
> > Nope. I didn't see any "gems of Wisdom".
>
> That's because you are a Number One on the Scott Peck's ' Four Stages
> of Spiritual Growth Chart' and as a cponsequence you can not
> understand levels above your own...in the same way that you can Not
> know what a person who has an IQ above 100 knows.
>
Fuck off, Star. Your new age act doesn't fool me. You
aint on no higher plane, and you ain't got no friendly
concern for me.
Your posts stink of hatred and attachment in the worst
ways - you cannot get to pretend to be a disengaged
saint after the bullshit you have perpetrated here.
> > Baha'u'llah, Jesus, Muhammad - they all didn't talk like that.
>
> Yah, like you would know or comprehend.
>
It is as clear as the noon-day sun.
Like I said to your false god - it don't mean a thing if
it ain't got that swing.
Nima's music sank like a lead ballon from the start.
Crimson Emeralds, indeed!
>
> > I'll keep hanging on to your pant legs. I'm hoping for
> > a bit of your orgasmic justice!
>
> Not a chance....you've had your fun.....go back to the ksbg!
>
Weak comeback, Star.
What's up? Hoping I'll say I love you again? Jealous?
Tell you what, why don't you repost that email of mine
you say you've kept, so we can all see how far you've
fallen in my esteem?
Paul
Paul Hammond
Oh Sekhmet! My lady, and my God!
Paul
Paul Hammond
> paha...@onetel.net.uk (Paul Hammond) wrote in message
>
> > She sure does!
>
> Yeah, except you're the lady here, or the drag Queen - rather.
>
> > Couldn't you have found any capable and
> > competent followers?
>
> I know your are unable to think in any other context, being yourself a
> follower, but she's not my follower.
>
That would be news to her! She *loves* you - don't let her
down now!
> > > > How
> > > > could they have, since you admit that the whole
> > > > charade was something you and he cooked up together
> > > > just in order to yank our collective chains!
> > >
> > >
> > > Glad to hear your chain was seriously yanked, hence proving my
> > > contention that you are a sucker, a chump and a jackass!
> > >
> >
> > So, Nima, let's have it from the Sayoshyant's mouth.
> >
> > Was the lady of 1000 aliases, Letter of the Living
> > 2003 your dupe, or your willing accesory to perpetrating
> > a lie?
>
> Get a life, jackass! Cyberspace is not the *real* world, stop taking
> yourselves so seriously, and I didn't hear you talking about "lies
> being perpetrated" when Dermod played his Francis Dingle or enth
> practical joke. And, besides, how is this any of your business?
>
Because I am one of the "ex-friends" you apparently perpetrated
your scam on in order to "make this final break" with something
you had decided to regard as entirely worthless?
Don't take myself so seriously? You were the one that threw
me and Steve Marshall off Zuhur in a screaming rage, because
we stood up to your bullying, and you had no good arguments
against Steve and I pointing out what a big fat bully
you are.
You are the one screaming blue murder, "limey want a
cracker", "AO mole" and all the rest of your conspiracy
theories here.
You are the one threatening to beat me up if I ever
"come here and say that".
Get a life yourself! I'm not going anywhere.
> > She seems to believe in you more that you do - what a
> > silly woman!
>
> Maybe because she met me in person and knows what my real agenda is.
> You and Karen's agenda, on the other hand, is pretty transparently
> obvious to me and it is to serve Haifa - and even those who have been
> watching you two for a while and do not post agree wholeheartedly.
>
Yeah. You've decided that because me and Karen have minds of
our own, and will not kiss your ringpiece like Star does,
that both of us must be evil somehow.
Have you ever considered that you have megalomaniac tendencies,
Sayoshyant?
Paul
Adelard Rubangura
God Bless
Adelard
NEMO418
> Tell you what, why don't you repost that email of mine
> you say you've kept, so we can all see how far you've
> fallen in my esteem?
As if we should give a flying fuck about your esteem, limey bastard!
NEMO418
sekhm...@aol.com.nz (Sekhmet) wrote in message news:<20030408191451...@mb-fa.aol.com>...
Starr*
> Starr*, thanks for the posting.
>
> God Bless
> Adelard
You are welcomed Adelard!
When we read this article we come to realize that the Blacks have had
great scholars representative in the Faith, and when we realize this,
we also realize that their contributions are down played in the
mainstream knowledge of the Faith...and in fact almost expunged.
This is one reason that Cal Rollins is so invaluable in continually
bringing the issues of the Black man in the early history of the Faith
to the consciousness of Baha'is. In fact ......what is coming to light
(and most scholars acknowledge) is that the Tahirih, the Bab, and
Mirza Husayn Ali most assurredly had some Black heritage.
Just as in the US at least 95% of the people have Black blood - that
blood line is even more evident and concentrated in the people of Iran
due to the long time practice of slave trade and temporary marriage
arrangements in almost all households, and especially of that of the
elite from which Baha'u'llah came. One has only to look into the eyes
of many of the Iranian peoples to know of their Black anscestry. Most
are in denial because they do not want to be classified or aligned
with those who have come from a line of 'slavery' in a country that is
so rife with classism.
Still, in consideration of the 'truth' it is outrageous that the Black
people are kept out of the Faith and at a low controlled profile
(excepting the tokens in the AO).
The article submitted states;
". Put another way, I estimate that 95% or more
> that is known about Blacks in history was discovered
> by Rogers, so great was his search and his finding of
> fact. Rogers and Locke both were infused with the
> teaching of Baha'u'llah, whose central teaching was
> the 'Oneness of Mankind'. I think this belief, which in
> their time and ours was 'new' and challenging, gave
> them energy and direction and a philosophical and
> practical 'certainty' on which to stand."
I truly believe that if the 'truth' about the Black people's
contribution to the Faith is made more known that when the 'tokens'
gain power they will no longer, through this knowledge, be beholden to
the AO hijacker contingency who are now controlling them and putting
them forward as pawns to do the dirty jobs.
Therefore, the Cal Rollins's of this time, offer hope for the Faith to
regain the fruit of spiritual practice, over turn the 'rotting fruit'
at the core and bring about the harmony and equality of black and
white, women and men, and east and the west.
An idealistic Futurist wondering if a dead thing can be revived
Starr*
PS - If this hope is dashed - may women rule the world and/or Nima and
I get elected in the new Democracy :)
Sekhmet
>She does. It's named Sekhmet ;-)
No wonder you're wrong so often about so many things, if you can mistake a
lioness for a cuddly little kittycat!
--Sekhmet
Starr*
O yes...I sing every morning and nite......
"We love you O Nima Saoshyant, O yes we do....
We love you Nima Saoshyant and we'll be true...
We love you, O yes we do!
Don't feel too bad - cuz I care about you too
"I love you
I love you! I do!
But don't get too excited
I love little piggys too!"
But be full warned......AO dupes and Ksbg dags don't have a chance!
When you come out and want an honest sparring let me know....
Starr*
Starr*
Hi Adelard - I just saw your response...and I have time to jutt down a
few thoughts before 'the play of the day' kicks in....
> <<I feel this is what you have done with Nima and Myself (but then
> you are new to the group and have jumped to judgements without being
> privy to the 'search for Spritual Growth that has been going on in
> these newsgroups during the past decade and can not speak or judge
> from a position of being informed.>>
>
> Please forgive me if you think I judged both of you.
But mistakenly you did...(I understand the dynamics of why this
happened).
>But I like to say that
> The Bahai Faith I know since becoming a Baha'i is not the same Baha'i Faith
> I see some people talk about here.
Yes, the AO says the people who left the Faith and could not go with
the changes (which I see as Kholmenizing the Faith) are no more than
the dirty foam of a wave being washed up on the beach....as the Faith
purges itself of the dross ----it's a harsh God after-all!
>As your article says, some people are in
> the lower stage and are unable to understand the spiritual meanings of the
> teachings of the Baha'i Faith. This Faith is not a social movement, rather
> it's a religion, or even more than that it's the Spirit of the Age.
The German word for 'Spirit of the Age' is 'Zeitgeist' and is open to
all people on the planet, bahai and otherwise.
> This Faith inaugurates a new cycle of spiritual maturity never seen before.
> If you are in lower stage of spiritual maturity, you would not understand
> it, because it's said in the scriptures of the past ( ie. Bible ) at last
> that God will come down on earth to lead all his nations and establish his
> kingdom.
What I think you fail to take into account is where the Writings
explain more about the process. First of all the Writings explain what
the Baha'i Faith model is for 'activating the Spirit of the Age'
principles. Then the Writings go on to say that there is a Lesser Plan
which belongs to the Baha'is and a Greater Plan which belongs to all
the world for the Zeitgeist to materialize. Then the key Writing that
I suggest you consider is: 'If the Baha'is fail in the Lesser Plan
then the Greater Plan will prevail'.
We are in the stage where the Lesser Plan is/has showed itself to be
corrupted after the Guaradianship was made *bada*(God changed Her
Mind) by the Hand of the Zeitgeist and the meek (the people of the
world (not the BF) are inheriting and inaugurating the new cycle of
maturity. It is time for those in the Faith to bring the principles
into the world rather than keeping them hidden in an exclusive
inclusive totalitarian regime.
I hope you will give some consideration to what I have put
forward...and consider if there is a way of cauzing a juxtapostion.
With kind regards
Starr*
Paul Hammond
>
> Yes, the AO says the people who left the Faith and could not go with
> the changes (which I see as Kholmenizing the Faith) are no more than
> the dirty foam of a wave being washed up on the beach....as the Faith
> purges itself of the dross ----it's a harsh God after-all!
>
You're very proud of this one, aren't you? But it's crap.
Do you want it to sound like "Khomeini", or would you prefer
it to sound like "Kholi"?
NO-one outside this group would pick up the latter reference,
which owes more to your hatred for our Pat than any sensible
or explanatory image. Plus the word is ugly.
So, as a coinage for a general phenomenon, it crashes and
burns.
Paul
Paul Hammond
Well, I don't give a fuck about yours. But I'm surprised
Star has held on to my email from so long ago. She must
really give a damn or two, no?
Paul
Starr*
I thought you were from the same litter as Paul...because I read some
where that your name meant a sick puppy from the phonetics.....but
like you say it could mean an old Egyptian goddess - more power to
you.
> Worship, and be afraid!
I'll let Nima take you on...since it sounds like you are looking for
some action and he's got the sword to do the job - I think you two
would enjoy the battle more than I would. In fact maybe you two could
replace Dermod the Dst act if they don't return. Could you tell us a
little more about yourself and background so we can cheer for our
God/ess of choice. If it comes out as a tie you two will have to get
married - howz that for a challenge?
Starr*
> --Sekhmet
Pat Kohli
Paul Hammond wrote:
*Starr* also borrowed from 'Abdu'l Baha's reference to Covenant Breakers. The facts which you can see
here, is that enrolled Baha'is can be quite cordial with resignees.
"O ye friends and maidservants of the Merciful! From the Spiritual Assembly of Los Angeles a letter hath
been received. It was indicative of the fact that the blessed souls in California, like unto an immovable
mountain, are withstanding the gale of violation, have, like unto blessed trees, been planted in the soil
of the Covenant and are most firm and steadfast. The hope is entertained, therefore, that through the
blessings of the Sun of Truth they may daily increase in their firmness and steadfastness. The tests of
every dispensation are in direct proportion to the greatness of the Cause, and as heretofore such a
manifest Covenant, written by the Supreme Pen, hath not been entered upon, the tests are proportionately
more severe. These trials cause the feeble souls to waver while those who are firm are not affected. These
agitations of the violators are no more than the foam of the ocean, which is one of its inseparable
features; but the ocean of the Covenant shall surge and shall cast ashore the bodies of the dead, for it
cannot retain them. Thus it is seen that the ocean of the Covenant hath surged and surged until it hath
thrown out the dead bodies--souls that are deprived of the Spirit of God and are lost in passion and self
and are seeking leadership. This foam of the ocean shall not endure and shall soon disperse and vanish,
while the ocean of the Covenant shall eternally surge and roar...."
'Abdu'l Baha, http://bahai-library.org/writings/abdulbaha/swab/185.html
Best wishes!
- Pat
kohli at ameritel.net
NEMO418
sekhm...@aol.com.nz (Sekhmet) wrote in message news:<20030409215926...@mb-fa.aol.com>...
NEMO418
Nima
paha...@onetel.net.uk (Paul Hammond) wrote in message news:<c977f97b.03041...@posting.google.com>...