3-18-07 - NOT a "Holy Family." (31).

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Baha'i Censorship - See Website

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Mar 18, 2007, 9:50:16 AM3/18/07
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NOT a "Holy Family." (31).


Ruth White. Abdul Baha's Questioned Will and Testament.
Beverly Hills: White, 1946.

"It is important for those who are interested in the Bahai Religion to free themselves from the idea
that the family of Abdu'l-Baha is a "Holy Family." In fact his family, and "in-laws," with the
exception of his wife and sister, were somewhat materialistic, and viewed the religion more or less
as a little family affair with a strong bent toward organization. For years they have indoctrinated,
more or less, the pilgrims who visited the home of Abdul-Baha, myself included, with this conception
of religion. This partly nullified the great universal teachings. The result was that when
Abdul-Baha passed from this world in November, 1921, some of his family, who had laid the
ground-work for organization through these pilgrims while he was alive, hastened to establish it
more firmly when he died. All this resulted in making the Bahai Movement, under the dictatorship of
Shoghi Effendi, an organization which for narrowness and bigotry has no parallel in history except
in the dark ages" (31).
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Ruth%20White.htm

--
Frederick Glaysher
The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

See 2007 - Lawsuit by Wilmette NSA Against Other Denominations
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

Dr. C. (Charles) Ainsworth Mitchell
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/CAMitchell_Report.htm

Has...@aol.com

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Mar 18, 2007, 1:54:14 PM3/18/07
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> as a little family affair with a strong bent toward organization.

Apparently Ruth White couldn't see the contradiction in what she was
suggesting. Once a religion becomes organized it is no longer a
'family affair.'

Ron House

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Mar 18, 2007, 10:39:36 PM3/18/07
to

That's about the silliest thing I have read here in quite a while.
Family affairs have to be disorganised?? Saudi Arabia is organised, and
it is also a family affair for the Saud family. Disproof by production
of a contradiction.

--
Ron House ho...@usq.edu.au
http://www.sci.usq.edu.au/staff/house

sma...@gmail.com

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Mar 19, 2007, 1:57:53 AM3/19/07
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On Mar 18, 9:39 pm, Ron House <h...@usq.edu.au> wrote:

> Hasl...@aol.com wrote:
> >>as a little family affair with a strong bent toward organization.
>
> > Apparently Ruth White couldn't see the contradiction in what she was
> > suggesting. Once a religion becomes organized it is no longer a
> > 'family affair.'
>
> That's about the silliest thing I have read here in quite a while.
> Family affairs have to be disorganised?? Saudi Arabia is organised, and
> it is also a family affair for the Saud family. Disproof by production
> of a contradiction.

Read what I said, Ron. I said when *religions* get organized they are
no longer family affairs. Indeed, that is precisely what happened in
the Baha'i Faith. It got organized and the family fell away. As for
the House of Saud, last I heard, they weren't a religion.

Baha'i Censorship - See Website

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Mar 19, 2007, 7:59:09 AM3/19/07
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NOTE Maneck's disclosure that she's hiding behind
the false identity of Hasl...@aol.com fromwhich she posted:

"Once a religion becomes organized it is no longer a 'family affair.' "

http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/msg/be7d06aae33c2848?dmode=source&hl=en

" Read what I said, Ron. I said when *religions* get organized they are
no longer family affairs."

http://groups.google.com.au/group/talk.religion.bahai/msg/dde7a4eb485f3207?dmode=source&hl=en

--

CAUTION - Susan Maneck: A Widely-Recognized Liar and Slanderer

Dear Newcomer:

Susan Maneck is a widely-recognized liar and slanderer,
which is documented below by many, many people on
talk.religion.bahai and elsewhere in Baha'i cyberspace:

Susan Maneck, Baha'i scholar:
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck8.htm

Rod Wicks, January 22, 2004:
I disagree...and my disagreement is based on years of online discussions
in which Susans [Maneck] propensity to accuse (openly or through innuendo)is
reflected by other fundamentalist Baha'is. So too the evasiveness, the glib,
trite smarmy non answer, the drive by 'blipvert' of one line innuendo, the
refusal to stand and defend/justify/explain any attack or allegation, the
retreat into cowards killfile when her dishonesty is exposed.....all these
are common features of what has been described as the Baha'i Technique.
I did not believe such a phenomena could exist when I first came online...
today the evidence is irrefutable and undeniable. Susan M perfectly reflects
all that is worst about contemporary Baha'i culture...'they' know it and
love her for it.

No....Manic and fundamentalist co workers do not simply "represent" the
Baha'i community...they *ARE* the community...their identification is
total/complete. Any criticism of any aspect of Baha'i is perceived by
Manic and Co as a direct personal attack and they respond by attacking
the individual rather than the argument. They will invent and
manufacture 'enemies of the faith', 'violators of the Covenant' and
even stoop to open allegations of criminal activity.

The AO cannot possibly be deaf, dumb and blind to this activity any
more than the online Baha'i gallery and lurkers are blind to it.
It is granted approval, formal or informal, open or tacit...it matters
not.

The truth is apparent in examination of the facts...the facts are
available in review of the archives...the archives reveal incident
after incident/event after event in which Susan (or co fundamentalist)
levels a baseless and unprovoked serious allegation, refuses substantiation,
hides behind glib and evasive [expletive] and/or killfile and receives
open or tacit support for doing so.

Susan represents a prevailing culture of abuse, slander, denial and
evasion.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8ccded73.0401212239.6e99f512%40posting.google.com&output=gplain

"In short, she has lied and made misleading statements about
me in the past and this recent statement of hers is just
another example of her lack of honesty." Steven Scholl
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Scholl4.htm

"...she has behaved toward me in an academic setting
with dishonesty and deceit in such a way as deprives her
of the right to debate me publicly. She spied on me and
lied about it. She betrayed confidences in such a way as
to cause her academic colleagues to demand and get her
resignation from a position she had held." Prof. Juan Cole
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Cole20.htm

Juan Cole, February 13, 1999:
"It is a very, very, very weird religion. And if anyone is reading
Susan Maneck's absolutely bone-chilling screeds on the
desirability of Heresy Trials and carefulness in Shunning,
they are seeing what it is like at the core of the religion."

"I really am sorry for them and her, since they seem sort of filled with
hate and quite paranoid, yet say they are preaching love, unity and
tolerance. Susan will say, 'may your abdomen be split by lightning
and your guts fall out you filthy heretic whom I wish I could just have
shunned and buried', and then she'll sign herself "warmest" and
slander a university by adding it to her sig line. As if what she is
about has anything at all to do with *universities*!"

"Isn't it sort of suspicious that she shows up at AOL
backbiting me so assiduously on a forum where I am not
even present? ... Is the only way to stay a Baha'i
to capitulate morally in this way?" Prof. Juan Cole
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Cole19.htm

"As for Maneck's relationship to the Baha'i authorities,
she has herself boasted to common friends of ours of
corresponding with House members about how to 'deal with
Cole', and she served as a spy on an academic editorial
committee for counselor Ghadirian, passing over to him
detailed reports on confidential discussions, one of
which she accidentally sharedwith an editor. And now
she wishes to make my revelation of this role itself
a reason for which *I* should be thought delusional?"
Prof. Juan Cole
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Cole74.htm

> [Susan Maneck's] notion of "integrity" is clearly revealed here- [snip]
> It involves misrepresentation, slander, psychic assumptions, refusal
> to substantiate or explain and repetitious ad hom as an evasive device
> to avoid acting in an ethical manner. [Susan Maneck's] will go to any
> lengths
> to avoid responding to a justifiable call for substantiation of her
> baseless allegations...she will cut, snip, evade, convolute and red
> herring her way away from the question.
> When called to account she will plead "hounding".
>
> All ethical connect to the notion of 'integrity' has been forfeit by
> her.
>
> Rod in news:8ccded73.03091...@posting.google.com

"You, Madam, are devoid of propriety, dignity and morality." El Baquiano
"Since I prize the Baha'i Faith, words that insult it are vile. And
since I never uttered nothing resembling them, I say that you are
falsely attribute them to me. You continuously imply that my
motivations are suspect and nefarious and that I am attacking the
Faith and its institutions. Yet in the face of irreproachable proof to
the contrary, you continue to add to your mound of lies.".El Baquiano


Further details on Baha'i scholar Susan Maneck at
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck1.htm

See her slandering other views as garbage:
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck3.htm

See her slandering other views as litter:
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck7.htm

See also messages related to her abuse of AOL :
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/AOL.htm
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/AOLcensorship.htm

Bahai institutions DRIVING people out - Maneck's "get over it" 9/17/03
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Maneck9.htm

Wahid Azal

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Mar 19, 2007, 6:00:59 PM3/19/07
to
MOZDUR ranted:

> Read what I said, Ron. I said when *religions* get organized they are
> no longer family affairs. Indeed, that is precisely what happened in
> the Baha'i Faith. It got organized and the family fell away. As for
> the House of Saud, last I heard, they weren't a religion.


Even more obfuscatory nonsense from a so-called historian of the Mid
East. From before its inception as the Kingdom of Sa'udi Arabia, the
House of Sa'ud have been the head of the Wahhabi establishment in the
Kingdom and effectively worldwide. They are also the self-designated
Custodians of the Two Shrines of Mecca and Medina (i.e. khadamayn
[actually, *kha'inayn*] sharrafayn haramayn). So the House of Sa'ud is
very much a religious affair in every facet. The House of Sa'udi is
the most organized religious outfit on the planet today second only to
the Vatican and then the haifan bahaim.

Who gives out these Ph.Ds to people who don't even know something as
simple as this?

W

bayani....@gmail.com

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Mar 19, 2007, 9:45:05 PM3/19/07
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On Mar 19, 12:50 am, "Baha'i Censorship - See Website"

<bahaicensors...@SeeWebsite.com> wrote:
> NOT a "Holy Family." (31).
>
> Ruth White. Abdul Baha's Questioned Will and Testament.
> Beverly Hills: White, 1946.
>
> "It is important for those who are interested in the Bahai Religion to free themselves from the idea
> that the family of Abdu'l-Baha is a "Holy Family." In fact his family, and "in-laws," with the
> exception of his wife and sister, were somewhat materialistic, and viewed the religion more or less
> as a little family affair with a strong bent toward organization. For years they have indoctrinated,
> more or less, the pilgrims who visited the home of Abdul-Baha, myself included, with this conception
> of religion. This partly nullified the great universal teachings. The result was that when
> Abdul-Baha passed from this world in November, 1921, some of his family, who had laid the
> ground-work for organization through these pilgrims while he was alive, hastened to establish it
> more firmly when he died. All this resulted in making the Bahai Movement, under the dictatorship of
> Shoghi Effendi, an organization which for narrowness and bigotry has no parallel in history except
> in the dark ages" (31).http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Ruth%20White.htm
>
> --
> Frederick Glaysher
> The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Consciencehttp://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/
>
> See 2007 - Lawsuit by Wilmette NSA Against Other Denominationshttp://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

>
> Dr. C. (Charles) Ainsworth Mitchellhttp://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/CAMitchell_Report.htm

"It is important for those who are interested in the Bahai Religion to


free themselves from the idea that the family of Abdu'l-Baha is a
"Holy Family

That is progress! So let's step up to Mirza Husayn-Ali's family. We
have his sons, his wife, his daughter and his wife.
Abbas cut off the smaller branches and was not on good terms with his
own mother because she was not prepared to call his personal letters
as 'tablets'. We are left with Abbas and his sister Sultan.
That is more like a wholly unholy family.
Steve Blomberg

Asparagus

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Mar 19, 2007, 10:06:19 PM3/19/07
to

<bayani....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174355105....@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

> That is more like a wholly unholy family.
> Steve Blomberg

not unlike yours then except it produced an idiot like you


Asparagus

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Mar 19, 2007, 10:12:32 PM3/19/07
to

<sma...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174283873.1...@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

correct us if we are wrong we have impression that this will ensured baha'i
remained a family affair with shoghi effendi and his heirs from the family
always at the top now if we read things properly shoghi effendi organised it
but still kept control as the head bombardier we have done a little reading
on this and it appears that mrs white objected to the organisation and also
the family being on the top of the cake at the same time are we right


Ron House

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Mar 20, 2007, 12:05:30 AM3/20/07
to

You called it a contradiction. For something to be a contradiction there
has to be a reason. What reason? What general principle prohibits an
organised religious family affair? Was not the original scheme for the
guardianship an organised family affair? What about the Aga Khan? The
hereditary imamate? Think a little about what you are writing. You are
clutching at the most absurd straws to find something disparaging to say
about Ruth White. She "couldn't see the contradiction"? State that
general principle that she couldn't see, which prevents organised
religious family affairs (in defiance of the fact that there have been
many such family affairs).

Ethics website: http://www.sci.usq.edu.au/staff/house/goodness

bayani....@gmail.com

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Mar 20, 2007, 3:58:28 AM3/20/07
to
On Mar 20, 1:06 pm, "Asparagus" <k...@spimspam.com> wrote:
> <bayani.belie...@gmail.com> wrote in message

Damn! I offended your religious feelings again!
You dumkpof can't even make up a meaningful sentence! Unlike you
scumbag who has no clue and can't debate keeps barking like a vicious
dog! And I keep kicking you in the head and enjoy it too. Do you
garbage container have anything to contradict what I said? Nothing! I
haven't yet told you everything about your unholy family. Stay tuned
you dickhead.

Asparagus

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Mar 20, 2007, 10:27:48 PM3/20/07
to

<bayani....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174377508.7...@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

> On Mar 20, 1:06 pm, "Asparagus" <k...@spimspam.com> wrote:
>> <bayani.belie...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1174355105....@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > That is more like a wholly unholy family.
>> > Steve Blomberg
>>
>> not unlike yours then except it produced an idiot like you
>
> Damn! I offended your religious feelings again!
> You dumkpof can't even make up a meaningful sentence!

do you really think so

> Unlike you
> scumbag who has no clue and can't debate keeps barking like a vicious
> dog!

the one thing about you banyanis which really impresses us is your ability
to win friends and influence people you use language in so delicate a
fashion and are always highly courteous to all who disagree with you well
done

> And I keep kicking you in the head and enjoy it too.

stephanie you have not got what it takes to put asparagus down don't even
think of trying because we will squash you for the nasty bug that you are
now go and learn manners you pompous prick

Do you
> garbage container have anything to contradict what I said?

for starters there is no god and all religion is a pile of shite now start
from there contradict that with proof before you use banyani waffle again to
us

.


bayani....@gmail.com

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Mar 21, 2007, 8:08:32 AM3/21/07
to
On Mar 21, 1:27 pm, "Asparagus" <k...@spimspam.com> wrote:
> <bayani.belie...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1174377508.7...@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Mar 20, 1:06 pm, "Asparagus" <k...@spimspam.com> wrote:
> >> <bayani.belie...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:1174355105....@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > That is more like a wholly unholy family.
> >> > Steve Blomberg
>
> >> not unlike yours then except it produced an idiot like you
>
> > Damn! I offended your religious feelings again!
> > You dumkpof can't even make up a meaningful sentence!
>
> do you really think so
>
> > Unlike you
> > scumbag who has no clue and can't debate keeps barking like a vicious
> > dog!
>
> the one thing about you banyanis which really impresses us is your ability
> to win friends and influence people you use language in so delicate a
> fashion and are always highly courteous to all who disagree with you well
> done
You blind can't see that you idiot are the only recipient of my utmost
compliments for you.
You must be the last person on earth to talk about being courtous. You
have earned it all.

>
> > And I keep kicking you in the head and enjoy it too.
>
> stephanie you have not got what it takes to put asparagus down don't even
> think of trying because we will squash you for the nasty bug that you are
> now go and learn manners you pompous prick
Sure, I have. You prick dead weed.
Again! You idiot should not be even allowed to utter the word
'manner'. The only thing you have contributed here is to digest and
gargle garbage. Now, get lost you brainless piece of shit!
I feel much better now.

>
> Do you
>
> > garbage container have anything to contradict what I said?
>
> for starters there is no god and all religion is a pile of shite now start
> from there contradict that with proof before you use banyani waffle again to
> us

Ha ha! What the f..ck are you doing in a forum that discusses
religion.
You don't need a proof! All you need is kick in the bum to get fooked.
Inviting proof is beyond your capacity, you garbage container.
>
> .


Asparagus

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Mar 21, 2007, 12:21:32 PM3/21/07
to

<bayani....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1174478912.4...@n76g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

>> the one thing about you banyanis which really impresses us is your
>> ability
>> to win friends and influence people you use language in so delicate a
>> fashion and are always highly courteous to all who disagree with you well
>> done
> You blind can't see that you idiot are the only recipient of my utmost
> compliments for you.

as far as we see just about everybody who does not agree with you gets the
benefit of your utmost compliments

> You must be the last person on earth to talk about being courtous. You
> have earned it all.

what have we earned


>>
>> > And I keep kicking you in the head and enjoy it too.
>>
>> stephanie you have not got what it takes to put asparagus down don't even
>> think of trying because we will squash you for the nasty bug that you are
>> now go and learn manners you pompous prick
> Sure, I have. You prick dead weed.
> Again! You idiot should not be even allowed to utter the word
> 'manner'. The only thing you have contributed here is to digest and
> gargle garbage. Now, get lost you brainless piece of shit!

stephanie reveals her true fascist colours

> I feel much better now.

fascists always do when they try to put down their opponents

>> for starters there is no god and all religion is a pile of shite now
>> start
>> from there contradict that with proof before you use banyani waffle again
>> to
>> us
> Ha ha! What the f..ck are you doing in a forum that discusses
> religion.
> You don't need a proof! All you need is kick in the bum to get fooked.

do you know anybody who can do it

> Inviting proof is beyond your capacity, you garbage container.

offering proof is beyond your capacity


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