My "schmooze fest" with Frederick Glaysher

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Jeffrey

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May 14, 2007, 11:43:56 AM5/14/07
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The violators snicker about the "schmooze fest" between Frederick
Glaysher and I that has formed since the violators took legal action
against the Orthodox Baha'is in an attempt to prevent them from
calling themselves Baha'is or using the Greatest Name (as if the
Greatest Name could validly be trademarked as if it were cola or
soap).

Although I disagree with Frederick and his sans-Guardian Reform Baha'i
Faith, I still love and respect Frederick for many reasons:

1) He is not fanatical and is not trying to silence me or the Orthodox
Baha'is.

2) He believes in freedom of speech and religion. He is largely
responsible for the existence of talk.religion.bahai, one of the best
tools available to the Orthodox Baha'is to reach the misled believers
around the world. For this, I thank him. Despite the fact that he
believes the Will and Testament is a forgery, I see that his views are
sincerely held and I would fight for his freedom to express his views
just as he champions my right to express my views.

3) He looks at equal horror upon the violators who have infested Haifa
and Wilmette and their outrageous words and conduct.

4) He, like all of us, is a child of God and is fighting his spiritual
battles, and he is acting in good faith to practice his religion as he
sees fit. For this, I respect him.

To the violators: do you think Abdu'l-Baha would approve of the
tolerance beween Frederick and I or would He approve of the fanatical
intolerance practiced by your leadership? You know He would choose
tolerance and respect for all. Why not follow in His steps?

Jeffrey

Baha'i Censorship - See Website

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May 14, 2007, 7:10:33 PM5/14/07
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"These are effectual and sufficient proofs that the conscience of man is sacred and to be
respected; and that liberty thereof produces widening of ideas, amendment of morals, improvement
of conduct, disclosure of the secrets of creation, and manifestation of the hidden verities of the
contingent world. " --Abdu'l-Baha, A Traveler's Narrative, 91.


Thank you, Jeffrey.

I must admit it choked me up to read your words....

May God bless you and all the Bahais who find themselves
attacked with such fanatical ferocity in and out of court.


--
Frederick Glaysher
The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

See 2007 - Lawsuit by Wilmette NSA Against Other Denominations
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

Ruth White Collection, Library of Congress, 1930
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/RWhiteLibC.htm

Ruth White, Excerpts, Bibliography
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Ruth%20White.htm

Dr. C. (Charles) Ainsworth Mitchell - Certified Copy from the Library of Congress
Report on the Writing Shown on the Photographs of the Alleged Will of Abdu'l-Baha. 1930.
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/CAMitchell_Report.htm

"Jeffrey" <Jeffr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
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obf...@rt66.com

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May 15, 2007, 12:54:14 AM5/15/07
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Earlier this month I attended an Interfaith Initiative Leadership
Gathering in Denver, Colorado, a meeting extending over several days
and attended by some 100 or more individuals from different religious
persuasions and some of whom who were agnostics or atheists. Though
there were obvious differences of perspective held by those in
attendance, the conference, for me, was a very pleasant experience
because of the moderation and understanding exhibited by the
attendees. (It was what a Baha'i meeting should be like.) The
exchanges of the participants were quite harmonious and, if I may say
so, loving.

One of the religious speakers during the conference emphasized how,
when he was a young man, his mother instructed him to behave when he
was away from home, saying that he must respect others, but that when
others show that they do not know how to behave, you have to speak up
and indicate what is right. He urged, though, respect for those who
are different, pointing out that all are children of God.

At that conference all the people that I met were well behaved. One
could well wish that such behavior could be shown in all the meetings
that we have with others, whether they are actual physical meetings or
those that occur on the internet.

Clearly, Baha'u'llah's views on courtesy are applicable here:
"Courtesy is, in the primary station, the lord of all virtues.
Blessed is he who is illumined with the light of courtesy..."

Sincerely,

Frank

Viv

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May 15, 2007, 3:38:14 AM5/15/07
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On 15 May, 00:10, "Baha'i Censorship - See Website" >

> Thank you, Jeffrey.
>
> I must admit it choked me up to read your words....
>
> May God bless you and all the Bahais who find themselves
> attacked with such fanatical ferocity in and out of court.

" ... and now let me put the onion away until it is next needed".

Viv

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May 15, 2007, 6:01:14 AM5/15/07
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Jeffrey describes what I said as a "snicker", which is fair enough
from his position, for Fred it is an attack of "fanatcial ferocity".
Yes, to describe their interaction as a "schmooze-fest" is an attack
of fanatical ferocity in the Glaysherverse.

And to think there are people who accuse Fred of dramatisation and
talking up all non-praising comments as dastardly attacks, ad
hominems, and slanderous vilifaction - how _could_ they get such an
idea?

Viv.

Jeffrey

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May 15, 2007, 10:47:51 AM5/15/07
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Frank,

As someone who has a real hard time being well behaved, I understand
the truth of what you say.

Although I do make every effort to be civil and courteous to
individuals, who are after all just people doing the best they can, I
do believe it is important to stand up against the violating
organization and its leadership as bluntly and clearly as possible.
Those who oppose God must be confronted and we must do battle against
them. Otherwise, they will continue to suck people in to their cult
and get stronger in their opposition to the true Cause of God.

Jeffrey

Asparagus

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May 16, 2007, 6:04:12 AM5/16/07
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"Viv" <viv_ja...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1179223274.2...@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...

>
> Jeffrey describes what I said as a "snicker", which is fair enough
> from his position, for Fred it is an attack of "fanatcial ferocity".
> Yes, to describe their interaction as a "schmooze-fest" is an attack
> of fanatical ferocity in the Glaysherverse.


it seems to us that there is little love lost in and among the various
baha'i factions when dealing with each other indeed we would see the
situation as being one involving active hostilities

is this not a bit pathetic in this day and age that these groups squabble
and bicker and actively detest each other

some might see the current interaction of these two opposed groups as being
a welcome infusion of tolerance

you obviously do not

we are not impressed

> And to think there are people who accuse Fred of dramatisation and
> talking up all non-praising comments as dastardly attacks, ad
> hominems, and slanderous vilifaction - how _could_ they get such an
> idea?

quite possibly from the example set by the largest of the baha'i sects

All Bad

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May 16, 2007, 7:15:50 AM5/16/07
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"Asparagus" <ki...@spimspam.com> wrote in message
news:ZJydnQ7iXKK...@bt.com...

>
> "Viv" <viv_ja...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:1179223274.2...@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Jeffrey describes what I said as a "snicker", which is fair enough
>> from his position, for Fred it is an attack of "fanatcial ferocity".
>> Yes, to describe their interaction as a "schmooze-fest" is an attack
>> of fanatical ferocity in the Glaysherverse.
>
>
> it seems to us that there is little love lost in and among the various
> baha'i factions when dealing with each other indeed we would see the
> situation as being one involving active hostilities
>
> is this not a bit pathetic in this day and age that these groups squabble
> and bicker and actively detest each other
>
> some might see the current interaction of these two opposed groups as
> being a welcome infusion of tolerance
>

Getting charactized by Jeffrey as a mindless fanatical snoopbot member of an
evil and dangerous cult may have fostered some skepticism towards Jeffrey's
interactions. Is that just me?

- All "Fanatical" Bad

Nosrat

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May 16, 2007, 10:36:32 AM5/16/07
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"Jeffrey" <Jeffr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1179157436.1...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

Dear Jeffrey,

Today the danger of pollutions and consequently global warming is understood
as a matter of fact by the majority of governments. Representatives of many
countries with different systems and regimes hold meetings and discuss the
issue.

Today people with diverse believes and different views has understood the
fact that the corrupt and sick organization (bogus UHJ) is evil and
dangerous so they discuss the subject over the net, calling this
communications "schmooze fest" is sick.

Nosrat


Jeffrey

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May 16, 2007, 1:37:05 PM5/16/07
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On May 16, 8:36 am, "Nosrat" <Nos...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> "Jeffrey" <Jeffrey...@gmail.com> wrote in message


Dear Nosrat,

I wish there was more "schmooze fest" going on within and between all
of the various factions who believe in Baha'u'llah. Then I would not
have to go on the attack against the violators who infest Haifa and
Wilmette. The same people who complain about me attacking their sick
organization conveniently forgive and forget the history of attacks
and shunning perpetrated by their own organization. You too know very
intimately how sick and corrupt that organization is since you have
suffered two times in your lifetime this shunning nonsense and lost
everything you had. Why you are not as angry as I am is a mystery to
me.

Jeffrey

Viv

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May 17, 2007, 5:56:06 AM5/17/07
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On 14 May, 16:43, Jeffrey <Jeffrey...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Although I disagree with Frederick and his sans-Guardian Reform Baha'i
> Faith, I still love and respect Frederick for many reasons:
>
> 1) He is not fanatical

> 2) He believes in freedom of speech and religion.
>

I am constantly amazed at the ability of the lawyers to claim with
apparently perect sincerity that the sky is pink.


sma...@gmail.com

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May 17, 2007, 7:40:00 PM5/17/07
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> May God bless you and all the Bahais who find themselves
> attacked with such fanatical ferocity in and out of court.

You mean like the Local Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of
Albuquerque?

I'm sure we all remember how sympathetic you were in that case. You
kept announcing the law suit but never even bothered to notify us when
the case got thrown out.

sma...@gmail.com

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May 17, 2007, 8:25:33 PM5/17/07
to
> May God bless you and all the Bahais who find themselves
> attacked with such fanatical ferocity in and out of court.

You mean like the Local Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of

sma...@gmail.com

unread,
May 17, 2007, 8:25:43 PM5/17/07
to
> May God bless you and all the Bahais who find themselves
> attacked with such fanatical ferocity in and out of court.

You mean like the Local Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of

Baha'i Censorship - See Website

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May 17, 2007, 8:34:29 PM5/17/07
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"Jeffrey" <Jeffr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1179337025.8...@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

>
> I wish there was more "schmooze fest" going on within and between all
> of the various factions who believe in Baha'u'llah. Then I would not
> have to go on the attack against the violators who infest Haifa and
> Wilmette. The same people who complain about me attacking their sick
> organization conveniently forgive and forget the history of attacks
> and shunning perpetrated by their own organization. You too know very
> intimately how sick and corrupt that organization is since you have
> suffered two times in your lifetime this shunning nonsense and lost
> everything you had. Why you are not as angry as I am is a mystery to
> me.


--

FYI

"If he exercises his anger and wrath against the bloodthirsty tyrants who are like ferocious beasts,
it is very praiseworthy...." Abdu'l-Baha, SAQ, 215

Jeffrey

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May 18, 2007, 12:29:39 PM5/18/07
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So you have to belittle me in order to argue with me?

Jeffrey

Nosrat

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May 22, 2007, 6:21:38 AM5/22/07
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Dear Jeffery,

Sorry for delay, I had problem with computer an I was not on line.

Anger is a natural reaction against injustice, harassment, threats,
intimidation and lies, so you have every right to be angry
fortunately as I see it you are quite able to manage your anger.

To answer your question, I had to think about it. I cannot say that
I never become angry, sometimes when I read the material written by
the leaders of the bogus organization and see how they manipulate the
writings and how shamelessly they have changed them, I become angry,
since it is clearly obvious in most cases that their act is far
beyond the mistakes and the evil intentions of the manipulators. But
most of the time I feel pity for them especially for the misled
followers.

I am not angry about what they did to me and my family, although it
was very horrific. I do not disclose how much I was hurt and how much
emotional and financial damage they imposed on me and my family, and
I do not want my unveiling of the occurrence contribute to the fear
strategy of the bogus UHJ among the Baha'is.

In my last meeting with the so called continental counsellor when I
had finished my talk, she asked my wife, do you share your husband's
belief? My wife fearfully and nervously answered: No, No, then she
turned to me and asked don't you think and care about your wife, your
children, your mother and the rest of the family? Surely you know
what will happen to you. At that moment I remembered that a similar
question was asked from the martyrs of the Faith before their
execution, I calmly answered, I love my wife and my children and my
family very much and they know this themselves but I love God and
Baha'u'llah more than them. Prior to this we had three meetings;
first one was a friendly visit by her accompanied by her husband. She
was waiting for me to bring the subject forward but mostly I talked
about consciences and investigation of the Truth. When they were
leaving they invited us to their home for the next weekend and near
the door she said: I was told that you are concerned about some
questions in the Faith and if you like we can discuss them when we
meet again. I replied, by all means, but it is necessary that you
study the Will and Testament of the Master and the Dispensation of
Baha'u'llah by Shoghi Effendi. She agreed to do so.

At her home, I read excerpts relating to the Guardianship and the
Universal House of Justice from the Will and Testament and the
Dispensation of Baha'u'llah which prove that without its "Sacred
Head" the UHJ is illegitimate. She listened all the time, then at
the end she asked what is the solution, what is your opinion? I said
the solution is in the Writings and we will study them at our next
meeting.

At our next meeting I discussed Shoghi Effendi's messages to the
Baha'i World 1950-1957, especially his Proclamation of 9 January
1951. Apparently she was not aware of them or pretended not to be,
but she listened, and I explained the reasons that Shoghi Effendy was
faithful to the Covenant of Baha'u'llah and the Will and Testament of
Abdu'l Baha and how he appointed Mason Remey as the second Guardian
and the fact that Joel B. Marangella is the third Guardian.

I think it was in our last meeting that I quoted to her Shoghi
Effendi's message of 27 November 1954 in which he stated:

''The raising of this Edifice [the International Archives building]
will in turn herald the construction, in the course of successive
epochs of the Formative Age of the Faith, of several other
structures, which will serve as the administrative seats of such
divinely appointed institutions as the Guardianship, the Hands of the
Cause, and the Universal House of Justice"
(Messages to the Baha'i World - 1950-1957,p. 73)
Yet, according to the bogus UHJ, they claim:
''At the time of our beloved Shoghi Effendi's death it was evident,
from the circumstances and from the explicit requirements of the Holy
Texts, that it had been impossible for him to appoint a successor in
accordance with the provisions of the Will and Testament of 'Abdu'l-
Baha'' (UHJ 9 March 1965)

I asked why then did the first Guardian, in his Message of 27
November 1954, state that structures would be built (on Mount Carmel)
to serve as the administrative seats of the Guardianship and
the Hands of the Cause in successive epochs of the Formative Age of
the Faith? She said I don't know, but maybe he was thinking he would
have a son! I asked how old was he? There was no answer.

Nosrat

"Jeffrey" <Jeffr...@gmail.com> wrote in message

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Jeffrey

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May 22, 2007, 10:56:42 AM5/22/07
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Nosrat,

Thank you for your response. By coming out and telling your story,
you cannot possibly contribute to the fear strategy of the bogus UHJ.
They already are afraid. I think it serves both to warn people who
might unknowingly get sucked into their organization, and it serves as
a heroic example to those already in the organization of the deeds
that faithfulness to Baha'u'llah demands of them.

Jeffrey

Jeffrey

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May 22, 2007, 2:12:04 PM5/22/07
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On May 22, 4:21 am, "Nosrat" <Nos...@bigpond.com> wrote:

Asparagus

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May 23, 2007, 8:43:09 PM5/23/07
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"Viv" <viv_ja...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1179395766....@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

it all depends on your definition of pink

not that we like lawyers after all who does but they tend to be somewhat
more logical in their ways than those who preach religion

they also give you an itemised bill when extracting money from you unlike
the folks behind religion


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