consider the experience and views of the people mentioned ==> Roll Call of Victims, Roll Call of Honor
***** Bahai Faith *****
The many victims of the fundamentalists among my fellow bahais
include Indiana University Professors Linda and John Walbridge,
editor Stephen Scholl, other editors of the censored Dialogue
magazine, the Bahai Encyclopedia editors who resigned in protest,
David Langness, author of A Modest Proposal, Professor Juan Cole
of the History Department of the University of Michigan, fantasy
writer Michael McKenny, Nima Hazini of Australia, Paul Dodenhoff,
who in protest resigned his position as an Assistant to the Auxiliary Board,
Alison Marshall for writing a critique of bahai publishing and censorship,
Australian Olympic champion Cathy Freeman, Deborah Buckhorn, and
Anthony A. Lee, Editor of Kalimat Press, the latest victim whose story
has come to light....
Anthony A. Lee, Editor of Kalimat Press:
http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~bahai/docs/vol6/salmuhj.htm
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/KalimatP.htm
Deborah Buckhorn, New Mexico LAWSUIT against bahai institutions for
FRAUD & LIBEL 3/2/2001:
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/NMLawsuit.htm
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/NMLawsuitResponse.htm
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/NMLawsuitAttorney.htm
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/AmicusC.htm
I urge the perceptive reader seeking to understand the bahai faith to
consider the experience and views of the people mentioned above.
Many other people speak for themselves elsewhere on this website,
AOL, Usenet, and wherever freedom of speech, in or out of
cyberspace, is unconstrained by bahai fanatics.
Frederick Glaysher
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
http://www.fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/
For further details:
Professor Juan R. I. Cole, University of Michigan,
"Fundamentalism in the Contemporary U.S. Baha'i Community,"
Religious Studies Review, Vol. 43, no. 3 (March, 2002):195-217:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jrcole/bahai/2002/fundbhfn.htm
--------------------------------------------------------
Karen Bacquet, "Enemies Within: Conflict and Control in the
Baha'i Community." Published in American Family Foundation's
Cultic Studies Journal, Volume 18, pp.109-140:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/bigquestions/enemies.html
--------------------------------------------------------
talk.religion.bahai on the Web:
Free reading and posting, including the largest Usenet archive:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=talk.religion.bahai
Dermod Ryder
"ernobe" <ern...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b3t4et$1oj1fr$1...@ID-82761.news.dfncis.de...
> Dermod Ryder wrote:
>
> >
> > "ernobe" <ern...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:b3r8jn$1o8qfi$1...@ID-82761.news.dfncis.de...
> > > The Baha'i Faith is not fundamentalism or liberalism.
> >
> > ROFLMBO
> >
> You have the false assumption here that I understand what you pass
off
> as the English language.
Ah so! You not understand Internetese - synonyms and acronyms of
fairly common sayings and responses as in (for example): -
LOL Laughing out Loud
BIGS Bahai in Good Standing
DST Dweadful Steam Twap as in Ass Prof of Hicksville University but
only since she joined it.
ROFLMBO Rolling on the Floor laughing my butt off.
You come on Internet you gotta learn these things and not show
yourself a real ass, which, to date, you have been making a more than
credible attempt to do. You not know these things - you ask nicely and
not behave like pompous clown you obviously are.
Common courtesy would require that you effect some sort of
introduction before blowing in here like the Lord God Almighty or
Peter Khan as he is also known.
So Earlobe - you wanna start again????
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> my esoteric links:
> http://www.costarricense.cr/pagina/ernobe
george.fleming2
Grim_Re...@btinternet.com wrote on 2/3/03 7:55 pm:
Where are all you BIGS Pat Kohli, Susan Maneck and Sekhent your anti
Baha'i dissident buddy and cuddly little ole pussy cat Dermod here from the
Emeral Green isle is tearing strips off one of your loyal Baha'is.
Susan, Sekhmet and unholy Kohli the sly
All upright, true and loyal Baha'i.
But when Devious Dermod provokes an affray
The BIGS pick up their skirts & run away...................GF
Sekhmet
>Where are all you BIGS Pat Kohli, Susan Maneck and Sekhent your anti
>Baha'i dissident buddy and cuddly little ole pussy cat Dermod here from
>the
>Emeral Green isle is tearing strips off one of your loyal Baha'is.
You still don't get it, do you, George? It's not about what religion people in
this newsgroup belong to, it's about how they behave here. Civil discourse is
welcomed, but pontification is not.
Frankly I wish Dermod would have waited a little longer before reacting, to be
sure which sort of poster "ernobe" is going to prove to be, but I can
understand why he responded as he did.
>Susan, Sekhmet and unholy Kohli the sly
>All upright, true and loyal Baha'i.
>But when Devious Dermod provokes an affray
>The BIGS pick up their skirts & run away...................GF
Shouldn't you apologize for lying about our not speaking up about Iraq, before
starting up another one? You're beginning to sound obsessed...
--Sekhmet
P.S.-- There _are_ other rhymes in existence besides "Georgie Porgie"; why not
expand your horizons a little to relieve the tedium?
george.fleming2
sekhm...@aol.com.nz wrote on 4/3/03 12:22 am:
> You still don't get it, do you, George? It's not about what religion people in
> this newsgroup belong to, it's about how they behave here.
Try and tell that it's nothing to do with one religion to Dr Manic.
Tell me what did "ernobe" do wrong to have your mummy boy come down on hinm
like a ton of bricks................GF
george.fleming2
> P.S.-- There _are_ other rhymes in existence besides "Georgie Porgie"; why not
> expand your horizons a little to relieve the tedium?
Yeah, you are a great example to some horizions sitting up to all hours of
the night like your mummy boy watching an irish satire TV comedy.....GF
Sekhmet
>Yeah, you are a great example to some horizions sitting up to all hours
>of
>the night like your mummy boy watching an irish satire TV comedy.....GF
Functional illiteracy again, George?
--Sekhmet
Alma Engels
"george.fleming2" <george....@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:BA895A8C.159C4%george....@ntlworld.com...
Alma
Paul Hammond
And, it would have been so much improved
if he'd just left out that "unholy" in the
first line!
Paul
Cal E. Rollins
enough time understanding English English; I'll never understand Irish
English. I gave up on Monty Python almost two decades ago. How is it
BBC puts the Irish on American BBC? I just don't understand you guys'
political thing. I thought the Irish and the English hated each other.
--Cal
Cal E. Rollins
more accurate. Are you saying the rhythm and meter were not designed to
be pleasing to you? --Cal
Sekhmet
>Alma wrote:
>>George wrote:
>> > Susan, Sekhmet and unholy Kohli the sly
>> > All upright, true and loyal Baha'i.
>> > But when Devious Dermod provokes an affray
>> > The BIGS pick up their skirts & run away...................GF
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> Well you can rhyme but you ain't got no rhythm, no meter.
>> Alma
>
>And, it would have been so much improved
>if he'd just left out that "unholy" in the
>first line!
Yeah, that would help-- but there's also something seriously wrong with the
scansion of the last line, so he'd need to fix that too.
Naaah... better to trash it completely and start fresh, with something
original.
--Sekhmet
Dermod Ryder
"Cal E. Rollins" <crol...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16281-3E6...@storefull-2336.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> George, Father Ted is an Irish comedy?
It's a comedy about three priests in a remote parish on a fictional
island off the West Coast of Ireland.
> Oh, well. Geez, I have hard
> enough time understanding English English; I'll never understand
Irish
> English.
Of course you will! The Irish speak better English than the English.
Since that guy William Whatsisname from Stratford (and he was no great
shakes, it appears, at it) all the great authors in English have been
Irish.
> I gave up on Monty Python almost two decades ago. How is it
> BBC puts the Irish on American BBC?
Because they are great!
> I just don't understand you guys'
> political thing. I thought the Irish and the English hated each
other.
> --Cal
Only when playing rugby!
Dermod.
Dermod Ryder
"Sekhmet" <sekhm...@aol.com.nz> wrote in message
news:20030304152303...@mb-mw.aol.com...
> >And, it would have been so much improved
> >if he'd just left out that "unholy" in the
> >first line!
>
> Yeah, that would help-- but there's also something seriously wrong
with the
> scansion of the last line, so he'd need to fix that too.
> Naaah... better to trash it completely and start fresh, with
something
> original.
Wouldn't it be grand if Georgina actually did something original for a
change instead of copying what somebody else does first?
Dermod.
Alma Engels
"Cal E. Rollins" <crol...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16281-3E6...@storefull-2336.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> more accurate. Are you saying the rhythm and meter were not designed to
> be pleasing to you? --Cal
>
Nah Cal. Somethings don't have a rhythm and this is one of them. Are you
saying this is pleasing to you ? George may well be capable of writing
something with a poetic rhythm but he did not do so here. Alma
errol9
Engels at ael...@earthlink.net wrote on 5/3/03 4:00 am:
Interesting Cal is the poet and Alma is ???????????????????----errol9
Dermod Ryder
"errol9" <err...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:BA8B63C6.16031%err...@ntlworld.com...
A far nicer person than Georgina the Gobshite!
>
errol9
Grim_Re...@btinternet.com wrote on 5/3/03 10:25 am:
Well Dermod since I changed my TRB name I have decided not to retaliate
anymore to baiting from you or others. I prefer to get involved with
subjective issues rather than personalities.
It takes two to fight. I have decided my flame war is over with you. So
please yourself fire away. I just wont read any of your post anymore.
errol9
Paul Hammond
Goerge,
It doesn't take a genius to see how badly written and
derivative your attempts, even at doggerel, are.
If we're playing "My poet is bigger than your poet" I have
been known to write (non-rhyming) poetry myself, so call me
a practitioner too if you like.
Nothing like as good as Cal's, of course, but compared
to you, I *am* a genius.
So, just accept it, okay?
Paul
Paul Hammond
> in article b44ogm$1rsm5r$7...@ID-84503.news.dfncis.de, Dermod Ryder at
> Grim_Re...@btinternet.com wrote on 5/3/03 10:25 am:
>
> >
> > "errol9" <err...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> > news:BA8B63C6.16031%err...@ntlworld.com...
> >> in article fDe9a.3222$gF3.3...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net,
> Alma
> >> Engels at ael...@earthlink.net wrote on 5/3/03 4:00 am:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> "Cal E. Rollins" <crol...@webtv.net> wrote in message
> >>> news:16281-3E6...@storefull-2336.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> >>>> Alma, everything one says has rhythm and meter. So maybe you
> should be
> >>>> more accurate. Are you saying the rhythm and meter were not
> designed to
> >>>> be pleasing to you? --Cal
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Nah Cal. Somethings don't have a rhythm and this is one of them.
> Are you
> >>> saying this is pleasing to you ? George may well be capable of
> writing
> >>> something with a poetic rhythm but he did not do so here. Alma
> >>
> >> Interesting Cal is the poet and Alma is ???????????????????---
> >
> > A far nicer person than Georgina the Gobshite!
>
> Well Dermod since I changed my TRB name I have decided not to retaliate
> anymore to baiting from you or others. I prefer to get involved with
> subjective issues rather than personalities.
>
BWAHAHAHAHA! "subjective issues"! Love it!
> It takes two to fight. I have decided my flame war is over with you. So
> please yourself fire away. I just wont read any of your post anymore.
>
At least, not until after this one...
Paul
Cal E. Rollins
If you wish me to scan the rhythm of George's ditty, I would be pleased
to do so. If you know anything about human speech (or any other animal
for that matter) you'd know it has rhythm that can be charted. And if
you know anything about poetry you'd know much the same. What did you
learn in your high school (or grade school English classes, for heaven's
sake? Was I wasting my time again, young lady? --Cal
Sekhmet
I want to see him do something in iambic pentameter. ;-)
--Sekhmet
Paul Hammond
Cal,
for "rhythm" read "scansion"
But then, you knew that anyway, didn't you?
Paul
Alma Engels
Oh you can chart it but it is not rhythmical. And, hey boy what is this
young lady bit? I may well be older than you are.
As for poetry -- a chained cinquain:
WORD CRAFTS
I weave
a web of words
then wait to catch your eye.
Stop, stay awhile to dream the dreams
I weave.
I craft
with words a raft
iamb bound fore and aft
fancy a wea of fantasy
set sail.
I take
a sheet of words
to forge into a poem.
Thor's thunder knows no power like
my pen.
Alma Engels
Alma Engels
Dear errol9 posting in a thread george started.
Lets amend that to Cal is the poet who thinks trb should be a showcase for
his poems though that is not its purpose. Alma is also a poet. Though I
write free verse as well as forms this is a form -- a rondeau. It was
written for a poet friend who thought that 'stillborn' was the most
beautiful word in English.
TWO SONGS
Stillborn the song I tried to write
The tune was flat, its message trite.
Its father was a rondelay
But something this time went astray
With false meter, words not quite right.
Its words I care not to recite.
They did not rhyme, gave no delight.
Without the breath of life it lay
still. Borne
By comet tail at black midnight
Came my new song filled with moonlight
Star harmony, a Milky Way.
Not waiting for the light of day
A young song voice now breaks the night
still. Born.
Alma Engels
and another that is not a form:
SHADOW SISTER
Shadow Sister see how Janus
stands between us, faces
your way, faces mine.
And to each he offers one hand
Carefully dividing time.
Evenly spaced we smoothly circle
for one orbit we must share.
Could you reorbit, overtake him
would he let you? Would you dare?
On we pace in stately stasis
I the leader and you trail.
Two eyes he has two hands but
one heart. Shadow Sister, how
share we that?
Alma Engels
errol9
Engels at ael...@earthlink.net wrote on 6/3/03 4:03 am:
> Dear errol9 posting in a thread george started.
>
> Lets amend that to Cal is the poet who thinks trb should be a showcase for
> his poems though that is not its purpose. Alma is also a poet. Though I
> write free verse as well as forms this is a form -- a rondeau. It was
> written for a poet friend who thought that 'stillborn' was the most
> beautiful word in English
Dear Alma the amateur poet and grumpy old woman.
You are not a good poet when you cant tell the difference between someone
trying to write proper poetry and someone making a *ditti* up (using BIGS
names) for a bit of light humor. You told Cal you are no spring chicken,
well I hope your grumpiness does not come over in your attempt to write
poetry as it does in your posts to TRB?
Alma Engels
of words that is poetic. I have done many of those myself. In the past I
have been a poetry moderator in two different online sites -- one was a paid
position and the other was not. At one time we used to converse in
limericks and another in rhymed couplets. Your ditti was really bad. I
wonder if you can give us an example of a well formed ditty. As for my
'attempt' to write poetry -- I am not in the New Yorker class but for an
amateur I am doing ok. How are you doing in your attempt to paint?
Would you define grumpiness? Does it have any meaning beyond not liking a
poor poem.
Dermod Ryder
> Well Dermod since I changed my TRB name I have decided not to
retaliate
> anymore to baiting from you or others. I prefer to get involved with
> subjective issues rather than personalities.
>
> It takes two to fight. I have decided my flame war is over with you.
So
> please yourself fire away. I just wont read any of your post
anymore.
YEEEEES!
Kill-filed again and by Clone of DST!
Now who says that I'm not GREAT!
Dermod Ryder
>
> Dear Alma the amateur poet and grumpy old woman.
>
> You are not a good poet when you cant tell the difference between
someone
> trying to write proper poetry and someone making a *ditti* up (using
BIGS
> names) for a bit of light humor.
Duh! Earhole, the good lady can distinguish between good and bad
poetry; she can also distinguish between poetry and a "ditty" and she
can also distinguish between a good and bad ditty.
Your effort was not poetry but neither was it a good ditty!
errol9
Engels at ael...@earthlink.net wrote on 6/3/03 8:26 am:
> Snip>
> Oh errol9 it is possible to make a ditty using BIGS names or any other set
> of words that is poetic. I have done many of those myself. In the past I
> have been a poetry moderator in two different online sites -- one was a paid
> position and the other was not. At one time we used to converse in
> limericks and another in rhymed couplets. Your ditti was really bad. I
> wonder if you can give us an example of a well formed ditty. As for my
> 'attempt' to write poetry -- I am not in the New Yorker class but for an
> amateur I am doing ok. How are you doing in your attempt to paint?
Alma,
The difference between an amateur and a professional, is that a professional
will never critizise another person attempt at doing 'ditti's however bad
they are. The professional will always encourage. I will never be a poet
and quite frankly know that. I studied fine art for five years and have
worked with numerous visual art mediums. Here is a website were you can see
some of my paintings. The series was called "All Gods Children"
http://www.miracles.win-uk.net/BahaiArtGallery/HTML/GeorgeFleming/Artist.htm
l
Other work: "Time Moves on"
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=bahai-library.org/bafa/fleming.jpg&im
grefurl=http://bahai-library.org/bafa/48.htm&h=270&w=400&prev=/images%3Fq%3D
george%2Bfleming%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26sa%3DG
My second interest is Irish & British military and naval history. Here is a
website on James Magennis VC (a frogman who swam out of a migdet submarine
and attached limpet mines to a Japanese heavy Cruiser "Takao" in Singapore
in 1945)
http://www.chapter-one.com/vc/award.asp?vc=821
My book Is a (birth to death) biography on this WW2 VC hero who was born in
my home city of Belfast. He was a Catholic born in republican west Belfast
and was discriminated against by both the Protestant Unionist establisment
(because he was Catholic) and by Catholic republicans in the area he was
born in after the War (because he fought for the British in World war two).
After three years research I was successful in having the book titled
"MagennisVC" published by History Ireland in Dublin. I also campaigned for
two years with the Belfast City Council and at westminister to have a
memorial erected in his memory beside a statue of Queen Victoria in the
grounds of Belfast City hall. The book was launched in 1998 and the statue
of bronze and portland stone sculpted by Elizabeth McLoughland was unveiled
on 8th October 1999. It was a wonderful success for cultural diversity,
modern history, art, and exposing class and creed bigotry. I am proud to
say I campaigned against all odds against ( 5I City councillors half
Unionists and half republicians, neither one of them would stick their neck
out to support this memorial in the beginning) This was the first ever
official memorial to be erected to a common Catholic in Northern ireland.
For those who dont know what a VC is it is a "Victoria Cross" Britain's
Highest award for valour in time of war.
> Would you define grumpiness? Does it have any meaning beyond not liking a
> poor poem.
As I said I dont profess to be a poet, it was not meant to be a poem to be
taken seriously. It was light humor. Here is a professional poem by my good
friend Michael Longley titled "OCEAN" (homage to James "Mick" Magemmis VC )
after he had read my biography. This poem was published in a book of
Longley's other poems Titled "The Weather In Japan" which won Longley the
long established **Hawthornden** literary prize last year for 10,000 pounds.
OCEAN
Homage to James " Mick" Magennis VC
At the preformance of Merce Cunningham's Ocean
In the waterfront Hall the coral-coloured dancers
Drenched my head with silence and whale messages
And made me feel like a frogman on dry land.
There was room for only one midget submarine
In the roof space where my mind had floated, and where
Swimming from the Falls Road Baths to Singapore
Mick Magennis emerged in his frogman's suit
Oxgenleaking in telltale bubbles up to heaven
His expression unfathomable behind the visor
But his modest thumbs-up confirming that, yes
He had struck limpet mines on the cruiser Takao
Alongside dog-paddling, like ballet-dancing polar bears,
Penguins like torpedoes, dolphins in twos and threes,
Sea otters, seals, Mick was formation-swimming and
At home in the ocean's cupola above my head.
Michael Longley
Michael Longley is rated as the 2nd poet in
Ireland to the infamous Seamus Heaney.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Michael+Longley&btnG=Goog
le+Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=Seamus+Heaney&btnG=Google
+Search
errol9
Paul Hammond
And you can't spell "Ditty" either, George!
Ah well, sure it's a good job these little things
don't bother you, right?
Paul
Paul Hammond
And you can't spell "Ditty" either, George!
errol9
paha...@onetel.net.uk wrote on 6/3/03 6:13 pm:
Thankyou for the time you spend concerned about all my typo errors Paul.
Much appreciated, I do hope you keep it up and dont get bored after a while
because nearly every post I send has one ot two. errol9
Cal E. Rollins
poems. And when one has been published then that's a personal
confirmation of their showcase quality. And when I've gotten a grant
because of them, then I really get excited. But I do enjoy Baha'is
reading my stuff, since the only opportunity poets who are Baha'is have
to share their work with fellow believers on a relatively large scale is
in World Order Magazine. If you hear of any other major organs let me
know.
You'd think that a writer of three lovely poems wouldn't be such a
cantakerous crab. But somebody said Dame Sitwell was kind of weird,
too, although I've a picture of her and she was rather exotic, in my
opinion. And I've got her on record doing a reading and she was
electric. --Cal
Cal E. Rollins
Apparently you've never taught poetry. No poem is a poor poem if you
have breath in your body to write it. William Stafford, one time poet
at the Library of Congress and past editor of the Baha'i World Order
Magazine, and one of my mentors, always put "yes" by lines of poems on
his students' work. He recognized that all our lives are poetry waiting
to be expressed then worked into knock-out form. --Cal
Cal E. Rollins
more to enjoy. --Cal
Cal E. Rollins
Baha'is have. I've found in my communities that Baha'is are so anal
retentive, or self-effacing, or just plain jealous of excellence that
they keep each other down. It was like blacks used to be in the old
days. Hispanics, too. And Baha'i women now. It's rather sad though
that most Baha'is I know think that a good poem or work of art has to
have a religious theme or inspire one to great heights of something or
ruther. I like Dame Sitwell's comment that a good poem to her makes the
hair stand up on the back of her neck. I feel that way about any art
form, don't you? Have you ever looked at the poems in the back of the
old Baha'i World Books and in Star of the West? Mein Gott im Himmel!
Not a hair stirred on my neck. --Cal
Cal E. Rollins
Hayden was about Baha'is who never gave him any support until he was
famous. Then they kissed his butt right and left and talked about what
a great poet he was even though they wouldn't know a poem from a prayer
bead. One of the nice things about talent in one art form is that it
spills over into many others, since creativity is creativity. Old Pope
what's his name sure knew that about Mickey when he made him paint the
Sistine Chapel instead of just mucking around with statues of David and
tombs. I understand he even wrote poetry that pissed the Pope off.
Great film, "The Agony and the Ecstasy." --Cal
Alma Engels
and helped me with one of my poems. But Cal, you are talking about people
who are trying to be poets and write poetry. Do you really think that
George is one of those?
Alma
"Cal E. Rollins" <crol...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:201-3E6...@storefull-2334.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Alma Engels
me which is natural. I know that you recently had one book published by
Kalimat? But beyond that were your others chap books? As for publishing.
I have had a few published and I think one is pending for an anthology. I
long ago decided that I didn't care for the task of trying to publish my
poems when I could get more exposure online. BTW there is a newsgroup
devoted to poetry and for a while I contrubuted. Think it is
rec.arts.poetry but I could be wrong about that. At the time I was there,
there was a lot of decent stuff and some trash. It had a lot of college
students posting. And mostly their poems were in the latest acadamic style.
Mine aren't. But then poetry styles come and go. As for being a crab,
cantankerous or not, I am a cancer so maybe that explains it.
One of my favorite poets and one I 'discovered' for an online poetry group
is Rita Dove. That woman is elegant in person and poetry.
Alma
"Cal E. Rollins" <crol...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:202-3E6...@storefull-2334.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Alma Engels
> Alma, nice lines and great sentiments. Congratulations. Spin us some
> more to enjoy. --Cal
>
you have been writing poetry for years and years. I couldn't write a line
until I was 57 and in the middle of the night I got up and went to my
computer to write a poem 'Butterflies are free' in pseudo-Apple assembler.
That poem is lost from a hard disk crash.
Alma
Alma Engels
> in article bDD9a.5177$gF3.5...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net, Alma
> Engels at ael...@earthlink.net wrote on 6/3/03 8:26 am:
> > Snip>
>
> > Oh errol9 it is possible to make a ditty using BIGS names or any other
set
> > of words that is poetic. I have done many of those myself. In the past
I
> > have been a poetry moderator in two different online sites -- one was a
paid
> > position and the other was not. At one time we used to converse in
> > limericks and another in rhymed couplets. Your ditti was really bad. I
> > wonder if you can give us an example of a well formed ditty. As for my
> > 'attempt' to write poetry -- I am not in the New Yorker class but for an
> > amateur I am doing ok. How are you doing in your attempt to paint?
>
> Alma,
>
> The difference between an amateur and a professional, is that a
professional
> will never critizise another person attempt at doing 'ditti's however bad
> they are. The professional will always encourage. I will never be a poet
> and quite frankly know that. I studied fine art for five years and have
> worked with numerous visual art mediums. Here is a website were you can
see
> some of my paintings. The series was called "All Gods Children"
>
I am not sure I understand what you mean by a 'professional' poet. If you
mean one who makes a living at it, there are precious few. William
Stafford was one and he had to go around and sell chapbooks. Other
semi-professional ones like Sharon Olds and Rita Dove actually making their
living by university teaching.
And it is sheer wishful thinking that a good poet won't criticize trash.
Me? I can't paint and were I to post something I had hastily done in that
media you would be justified in criticizing me. As usual, George, you
aren't able to take any criticism. Hopefully, though under your new alias
you will be kindlier to others.
Alma
errol9
Rollins at crol...@webtv.net wrote on 6/3/03 10:29 pm:
Yes Cal, its this spilling over from one medium into another that is so
exciting in art. I was so pleased for other artists and poets who used my
biography "Magennis VC" to inhance their own work. Sculpter Elizabeth
McLoughland used text from the book to sculpt the bronze work on the
memorial. Tom Paulin (resident poet Oxford University) wrote another poem
on James "mick" Magennis VC after reading my book. It was published in
londom review of books 6 January 2000.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v22/n01/paul01_.html
Now unlike Michael Longley's poem (which I inclosed in my last post)
Paulin plagiarized his poem word for word out of my book. Now the london
review of books are using the poem to sell their back copies.
Paulin's poem is very long, but if you want me to type it out Cal I will do
all you need to do is ask. But I much prefer Michael Longley's poem, and
Longley also wrote a great review for my book in the Irish Times.
errol9
errol9
Engels at ael...@earthlink.net wrote on 6/3/03 11:16 pm:
> As usual, George, you aren't able to take any criticism.
Since when did you become elevated to be poetry critic of TRB?
Paul Hammond
Hey! Don't save all the anti-criticism criticism for Alma!
I criticised your poetry, too - twice! Where's my share?
Paul
errol9
Yeah, and i criticised your sexuality Poofy Paul Pudding and Pie.
errol9
Cal E. Rollins
anything creative he wishes. If he can paint so beautifully, so can he
write poetry if he so chooses to develop that side of his creativity. I
do good fetish art as a reflection of my experiences and cultures and as
a need to expand my creative impulse now that my children are adults and
actualized, my wife is in Abha, and I'm free and well-off to enjoy other
depths of myself. So I wouldn't be surprised to see great poems coming
out of George at some point. --Cal
errol9
Rollins at crol...@webtv.net wrote on 7/3/03 3:34 pm:
Thank you Cal for such praise, you make me blush. If only I could live up to
your poetic expectations, but poetry is one artistic field I doubt I would
be successful at. My poems would be full of numerous typo errors.
errol9
Cal E. Rollins
at the Institute of American Indian Arts in Santa Fe as Creative Writing
Instructor and recipient of grants as Poet in the Schools and Poet in
Residence from the National Endowment for the Arts. I've published
quite a lot in various magazines. You'll even find several of my poems
in various World Order Magazines. Do you participate in the Arts
Dialogue magazine in Holland, soon to be published by Kalimat Press?
George has. Look in the latest issue and back issues on-line. It's the
only successful Baha'i-related arts effort that I know of. I've gotten
lots of stuff in there you will note. Check under Amazon.Com for my two
books, NO ROOSTERS IN THIS BLUE CITY and MALE RAIN. The latter won
honorable mention in the Writer's Digest competition. --Cal
Cal E. Rollins
Yes. Well I've been writing since my first love, so I've had plenty of
years to do it in, first love having been at 18. --Cal
Cal E. Rollins
very successful poets who couldn't spell worth diddly squat but they
could sure emote on a page, a tavern napkin, or on the paper bag of
their sack lunch. Sometime when you're in America, go by the famous
tavern in Iowa City where all the world's poets have congregated. Look
in the men's restroom at the walls of graffiti left my our greatest.
Some of the spelling was bad but no typos that I could make out. But
who cared? Every ditty was witty. And some are even socially
redeeming. I don't know what was in the women's restroom. I never even
thought about it until now. Maybe my encounters with Star are having an
effect? --Cal
Cal E. Rollins
Actually Bill Stafford was professor at Lewis and Clark and made his
living teaching. I took a summer workshop under him at the University
of California at Santa Barbara. He did a workshop for my program at the
Institute of American Indian Arts before he was on the World Order
editorial board or was Library of Congress poet. I was stunned to find
out he was on a Baha'i board or shared Robert Hayden's post at the
Library. Small world. It gave me the shivers. I was there in the
woods with him on the UCSB campus when he wrote his famous butterfly
poem. Here's a recollection of that moment in history. --Cal
It is Raining
For William Stafford
It is raining and our souls
resl like doves in the dark,
dense trees and the cats curled
on the low-burning hearth.
Bill, when Paul from Scotland
told me last night he thought
you died three years ago,
did it matter?
I was there watching
with you in the Santa Barbara woods,
when your butterfly and my baby's
name danced in the sunlight
between the pines.
You captured the light
in your poem
and it can never die.
Cal E. Rollins
DESIRE
Paul Hammond
Functional illiteracy strikes again, I see.
You are confusing me with yourself once again, Sailor Boy.
You were "paulham...@yahoo.com" were you not?
Paul
errol9
> errol9 <err...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:<BA8E660C.164BA%err...@ntlworld.com>...
>> in article c977f97b.03030...@posting.google.com, Paul Hammond at
>> paha...@onetel.net.uk wrote on 7/3/03 3:05 pm:
>>
>>> errol9 <err...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>> news:<BA8D940C.1643D%err...@ntlworld.com>...
>>>> in article 9FQ9a.6019$gF3.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net, Alma
>>>> Engels at ael...@earthlink.net wrote on 6/3/03 11:16 pm:
>>>>
>>>>> As usual, George, you aren't able to take any criticism.
>>>>
>>>> Since when did you become elevated to be poetry critic of TRB?
>>>
>>> Hey! Don't save all the anti-criticism criticism for Alma!
>>>
>>> I criticised your poetry, too - twice! Where's my share?
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>> Yeah, and i criticised your sexuality Poofy Paul Pudding and Pie.
>>
>> errol9
>
> Functional illiteracy strikes again, I see.
>
> You are confusing me with yourself once again, Sailor Boy.
>
> You were "paulham...@yahoo.com" were you not?
>
Surely There is only one Paul/scarlet one TRB or would you like your mirrer
image back again. Why dont you place a wanted e/mail in TRB for
"paulham...@yahoo.com" to return to keep you company if you are lonely.
errol9
Alma Engels
> Alma,
>
> Yes. Well I've been writing since my first love, so I've had plenty of
> years to do it in, first love having been at 18. --Cal
>
stage I think all poets get to. But it is very different when one is in
their 50's -- then one can no longer rhyme moon and June, etc.
Alma
Alma Engels
I am an 'online' 'computer' poet. By that I mean that much of my meaningful
contact with poets was in online groups with exoerienced, good poets -- also
had local Phoenix groups and by computer I mean I compose on a computer
where change is easy but tracing the change is lost. Lately I am not
writing.
Alma
Alma Engels
commented. But it was attack poetry. I personally think anyone can write
poetry but most haven't discovered this.
Now I wonder -- do you think George or anyone else for that matter is
capable of writing great music? Great literature? Great choreography?
There are natural limits and it may be that George cannot do any of these
including great poetry. I won't comment on his painting as I have no
background there.
Alma
Alma Engels
"Paul Hammond" <paha...@onetel.net.uk> wrote in message
news:c977f97b.03030...@posting.google.com...
critique?
Alma
Just for kicks, this is the first 'poem' or pre-poem I wrote. At the time I
had an Apple2 GS and wanted to be a 'techie' on it so the terms in the poem
are all Apple techie terms.
The mouse ups at the keyboard and downs at the bus.
Then the cat stops aloging to chase after that mouse
Who is byteing at the G and nibbling on the S.
Say so long to your Apple as its bits hit the dust.
Alma Engels
teacher or did he make his living with poems. Good poems are a dime a dozen
these days and most don't earn much money. Poetry books are published and
go out of print so quickly. One of my favorites is called the Antaeus
Anthology and is a browning paperback. The editor -- name escapes me at the
moment -- had a marvelous taste for poetry but his own poems were just so-so
in my opinion. Many of our better poets worked in entirely different
areas -- perhaps that made them better poets. Almanews:17116-3E6...@storefull-2335.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Cal E. Rollins
of them and very patriotic others of them. And there was no doubt he
was a creative politician, although one many didn't like. I'm not sure
how one can label greatest to anything until we have plenty of time to
look back. We label, for example, our own Figures in the Faith as great
because we love them and hope time will tell. Whether or not George
determines to become a great poet and arrives only time can tell. --Cal
Starr*
O yes Cal - if it is wisdom that you seek
In the women's restroom be sure to take a peek
On the stall doors you will see
Depictions of people like you and me
Naked women in Oz doing a rain dance
And Cal writing poetry in his underpants!
Cal E. Rollins
was peeking from under my new laptop computer. But I don't apologize
when people invade the privacy of my workplace. --Cal
Alma Engels
George that causes you to defend him so passionately? How about Paul or Rod
writing great poetry? George has acted very poorly in this group. Matter
of fact from what he posts it sounds like he may be on a 'dry drunk.'
As for becoming a great poet as it age -- it is possible but not likely.
Off hand I can think of one woman poet who started writing in her old age --
can't remember name but she wrote "Procession at Candlemas" and one about
Kingfishers.
Alma
Starr*
> Star, underpants. Oops. I ran to put some on. I didn't know anybody
> was peeking from under my new laptop computer. But I don't apologize
> when people invade the privacy of my workplace. --Cal
From what I can ascertain their isn't much fer yer to worry about
anyway....created from dust and to dust it shall return.....its the
stuff that morphs in the ethers that is more interesting to me! And I
guess you didn't know yer laptop has a video feature....it is sure to
set off world war III and bush can no longer take the credit.
Starr*
Paul Hammond
Hey! You found it in the end, then?
I think I'm more like Cal - started writing poetry when I was
around 17-18, and in bursts on and off since then.
None of it available at easy reference just now, seeing as
how I am a continent away from my home.
More moon and June stuff, I am afraid. One that I am proud of
uses a thing that my girlfriend used to say that I decided
to find cute and develops it into a metaphor for the end
of our relationship. Another, from the same relationship,
is made entirely out of things she said to me in a
conversation, where she was excited about this new guy
she had met. She caused quite a few poems, I'm afraid.
Paul
Alma Engels
I tried to write poetry in my teens and couldn't. Perhaps I was too logical
at the time.
You speak of moon and June stuff. Romantic-erotic poetry is an early phase
I think for all poets. One has to work through this. But a woman in her
fifties can't rhyme moon and june without being silly as I was reminded by a
fellow poet. I wrote a very tight -- actually too tight sonnet about love.
Have it somewhere. Here is a poem more my style. It is based on
ranunculas. They are beautiful rose-like flowers. You plant little bulbs
that look like hands. To get them to sprout you have to both soak and score
them. Since this is a Baha'i board I give you the Baha'i version -- I
slightly changed the original after I read some of Baha'u'llah's erotic
poetry. I don't mean mine is as good -- just that I thought it was
allowable.
You are the rasp that rips my husk
the seed so okd and dry.
Then flood me as you enter in,
crest on divine word tide.
The swollen seed now sprouts and grows
love filled and satisfied.
Alma Engels
Cal E. Rollins
erotic poetry? Where is it? I read some translations of Tahirih's, and
she was some knockout lady. I hear a translation is in the works to
soon be published. I can hardly wait. (Nima, eat your heart out!)
Here's one stimulated by the Persian Hidden Word. --Cal
Light
It is noon and the birds sleep.
Why can't owl find the way
or the morning glories sleep
in the bright sun?
The sunlight took you away
from my bed of night-blooming
heedlessness where I'd found a way
to view your eclipsed sun.
Does it scream, this madness blooming?
Do I sit here under blankets of hot lights,
see flowers blooming
in the shadow of my heart's sun?
You wept for me, flew from my light
to a place you say birds sing by day,
waves are gentle, and hearts light,
away from my cold sun.
O, Sadrat, return and bring me sleep.
Dust motes ride the Sun Way
and I see your Face, a dark rose blooming.
Waves push light,
invite me into a dream of your sun.
Cal E. Rollins
DESIRE
Alma Engels
it sometimes. Think it was John Walbridge who wrote a paper on this and
Juan and others have done some translations.news:5706-3E6...@storefull-2336.public.lawson.webtv.net...