Ex-POWs to launch anti-Kerry Web site
Donald L Ferrt
Ex-POWs to launch anti-Kerry Web site
By RICHARD TOMKINS
WASHINGTON, Aug. 24 (UPI) -- Sen. John Kerry's anti-war activism
following his service in Vietnam is coming under attack by former U.S.
prisoners of war and their families, who are launching a Web site and
documentary that will likely further fuel election campaign rancor,
sources told UPI Tuesday.
The Web site, "Stolenhonor.com." could be online as early as Thursday
night or Friday and will feature comments and statements about Kerry,
the Democratic Party's nominee for president, by former inmates of
North Vietnam's infamous "Hanoi Hilton" prison complex, Ken Cordier
said.
Among those appearing are Medal of Honor recipients Col. Leo Thorsness
and Col. Bud Day, people Cordier called the "stars" of the Hanoi
Hilton.
"This is going to be the POW story," he said. "They are going to be
telling about the documentary ... and will tell the story about how
John Kerry betrayed the POWs, his fellow Vietnam veterans and the
country."
Kerry, following four months service in Vietnam commanding river
patrol boats in the Mekong Delta, became a prominent anti-war activist
and participated in the so-called Winter Soldier investigation, in
which men claiming to have seen service in Vietnam told tales of
participating regularly in atrocities. Kerry repeated the
unsubstantiated claims in testimony in 1971 before a Senate committee
as a member of Vietnam Veterans Against the War, which was staging
demonstrations in Washington.
"They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off
ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human
genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies,
randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of
Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and
generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the
normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which
is done by the applied bombing power of this country," Kerry said.
In a later television interview, Kerry said: "There are all kinds of
atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the
same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed
in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted
harassment and interdiction fire. I used .50 caliber machine guns,
which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon
against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the
burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare,
all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is
ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of
the United States from the top down."
Cordier, who spent more than six years in the Hanoi Hilton, said the
anti-war activities by Kerry and others were used for communist
propaganda and to harm prisoner morale.
Jim Warner, another former POW, told UPI earlier that his interrogator
showed him a transcript of Kerry's testimony and clippings from a
left-wing U.S. newspaper and said Warner had committed atrocities and
would never go home.
Cordier is currently a focus of attack by the Kerry campaign. He was a
co-chairman on a Bush-Cheney veterans' steering committee but was
dumped by the Republican campaign when it was learned he had appeared
in a television advertisement attacking Kerry's war record by Swift
Boat Veterans for Truth, a 527 advocacy group made up of former
colleagues of Kerry in Vietnam. Other veterans, including a man who
credits Kerry with saving his life, who served with Kerry have
supported the senator's version of events in Vietnam.
Cordier denies any wrongdoing and said the Bush campaign in no way
coordinated with the Swift boat veterans, which Kerry alleges are
Republican hit men.
Sources said snippets of the documentary in final production will
appear on the Web site around Labor Day and it was hoped it would also
appear on television or other venues.
It is "material like 'Fahrenheit 9/11' but it won't be a pack of
lies," Cordier added.
'Fahrenheit 9/11' is a virulent anti-Bush documentary by Michael Moore
that won the highest honor at this year's Cannes Film Festival and
packed movie theaters earlier this summer.
Information on the funding for the Web site and the documentary was
not immediately available but finances were coming "from a
Pennsylvania group," Cordier said.
The Kerry campaign has put pressure on television stations in three
key battleground states that were airing the Swift boat veterans'
first ad, in which veterans said Kerry lied about incidents that
earned him three Purple Hearts, two medals for bravery and a ticket
home after four months of a 12-month tour of duty in Vietnam. The
Kerry campaign has filed a complaint with the Federal Election
Commission about the group's work.
The POW Web site and documentary would be a new wrinkle in the battle
for the White House. The argument over Kerry's service record is
primarily a duel of conflicting accounts. In the battle over Kerry's
anti-war activism, Kerry's own words will be used against him.
The Massachusetts Democrat has defended his stand and actions against
the Vietnam War but admitted he may have used stronger language than
he should have in his Senate testimony
Senor Chico
"Donald L Ferrt" <wolfb...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:b9eb3efe.04082...@posting.google.com...
Well Mssr. Flip-Flop blustered, "Bring It On!" and now they are.
Let the leftwing squeeling and whining begin.
*Dubya Ran Away*
"Senor Chico" <Senor...@Byetme.org> wrote in message
news:6c_Wc.28643$%n4.1...@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
About what ?
icono'clast
Ferrt) wrote:
Anything for a buck, eh ferret? Economy must suck if these
'honorable' men must prostitute themselves...
Cory Bhreckan
Wasn't Bush refering to the terrorists when he said that? BTW, shouldn't
it be *President Flip-Flop?
archie...@spankrightwing.com
Ferrt) wrote:
>"This is going to be the POW story," he said. "They are going to be
>telling about the documentary ... and will tell the story about how
>John Kerry betrayed the POWs, his fellow Vietnam veterans and the
>country."
How did Kerry "betray" them when he was relating what other vets had
sworn to during a congressional hearing where HE was "under oath" to
tell the truth?
========================================================================================================
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>Subject: golden/brown showers
>View this article only
>Newsgroups: alt.personals.fetish, alt.sex.fetish.watersportsDate: 1997/03/30
>swm/34 houston tx. looking for females to use me as an oral slave.
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>-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
archie...@spankrightwing.com
<Senor...@Byetme.org> wrote:
>
>Well Mssr. Flip-Flop blustered, "Bring It On!" and now they are.
>
>Let the leftwing squeeling and whining begin.
Christ, you dumb cocksucker
"Flip-flop" is a manufactored GOP propaganda piece of shit.
Don't you have any ability to think independently?
ouroboros rex
<archie...@spankrightwing.com> wrote in message
news:ot5pi0hda90k31uj4...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 06:54:17 -0400, "Senor Chico"
> <Senor...@Byetme.org> wrote:
>
> >
> >Well Mssr. Flip-Flop blustered, "Bring It On!" and now they are.
> >
> >Let the leftwing squeeling and whining begin.
>
> Christ, you dumb cocksucker
>
> "Flip-flop" is a manufactored GOP propaganda piece of shit.
>
> Don't you have any ability to think independently?
Sure he does, he's a liar.
>
>
>
============================================================================
magnulus
The American people, I hope, have grown beyond this kind of dirty
politics. I think they will see these tactics for what they are- a cowardly
attempt by an incumbent with nothing good to show for the last 4 years
desperately trying to hold onto power any way possible.
GW *AWOL* Chimpzilla
> http://about.upi.com/products/perspectives/UPI-20040824-095915-7054R
>
> Ex-POWs to launch anti-Kerry Web site
> By RICHARD TOMKINS
> WASHINGTON, Aug. 24 (UPI) -- Sen. John Kerry's anti-war activism
> following his service in Vietnam is coming under attack by former U.S.
> prisoners of war and their families, who are launching a Web site and
> documentary that will likely further fuel election campaign rancor,
> sources told UPI Tuesday.
>
> The Web site, "Stolenhonor.com."
Abu Ghraib.
--
"There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas -- that says, fool
me once, shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again."
http://www.diymedia.net/audio/mp3/tdntb-bushwack2.mp3
mclark
> On 25 Aug 2004 03:50:18 -0700, wolfb...@mindspring.com (Donald L
> Ferrt) wrote:
>
> >"This is going to be the POW story," he said. "They are going to be
> >telling about the documentary ... and will tell the story about how
> >John Kerry betrayed the POWs, his fellow Vietnam veterans and the
> >country."
>
> How did Kerry "betray" them when he was relating what other vets had
> sworn to during a congressional hearing where HE was "under oath" to
> tell the truth?
If I understand your statement correctly, why is it ok when John Kerry
relates what he heard from other vets about alleged attrocities but not
ok for Al French, the Vet who testified against Kerry in the first Swift
Vet ad, to relate what he heard from other vets about John Kerry? But
if this is what is going on then John Kerry supporters are practicing
double standards. Proverbs 20:10
M. Clark
>
>
>
>
========================================================================
Mullah Fuq'ar
You must be talking about Cleland and Rassman.
-
John Kerry would like to thank Muslim Terrorists for
giving him a bounce in in his Presential polls. If the
terrorists need a hand, John Kerry is ready to report
for duty.
Mullah Fuq'ar
Kerry wants Bush to stop the Swift Boat Vets to stop it and doesn't
want "Unfit to Command" to be sold. I love the smell of a Democrap
brewing....it's the smells like victory.
Ram Firestone
> <archie...@spankrightwing.com> wrote:
>
> > On 25 Aug 2004 03:50:18 -0700, wolfb...@mindspring.com (Donald L
> > Ferrt) wrote:
> >
> > >"This is going to be the POW story," he said. "They are going to be
> > >telling about the documentary ... and will tell the story about how
> > >John Kerry betrayed the POWs, his fellow Vietnam veterans and the
> > >country."
> >
> > How did Kerry "betray" them when he was relating what other vets had
> > sworn to during a congressional hearing where HE was "under oath" to
> > tell the truth?
>
> If I understand your statement correctly, why is it ok when John Kerry
> relates what he heard from other vets about alleged attrocities but not
> ok for Al French, the Vet who testified against Kerry in the first Swift
> Vet ad, to relate what he heard from other vets about John Kerry? But
> if this is what is going on then John Kerry supporters are practicing
> double standards. Proverbs 20:10
>
I guess it depends if Al French states on the ad something like "This
is what other vets told me". If you want to use the same standard,
this is basically what Kerry did in his testimony. If Al French just
makes statements like they are fact and he has direct knowledge of
events than I would say he is being underhanded. Personally I don't
mind anyone complaining about Kerry's testimony. However the latest
SBVFT ad takes his statements out of context by omitting the fact that
he was relating what he had been told by others. I guess they felt
that correct context was not damming enough so they had to use
deception. Again I consider this underhanded.
Mack North
Ferrt) wrote:
>http://about.upi.com/products/perspectives/UPI-20040824-095915-7054R
>
>Ex-POWs to launch anti-Kerry Web site
>By RICHARD TOMKINS
>WASHINGTON, Aug. 24 (UPI) -- Sen. John Kerry's anti-war activism
>following his service in Vietnam is coming under attack by former U.S.
>prisoners of war and their families, who are launching a Web site and
>documentary that will likely further fuel election campaign rancor,
>sources told UPI Tuesday.
All POWs are fucked in the head from all the physical and
psychological trauma they sustained. Why the hell should we trust
these kooks?
Also, stop posting Moonie Times articles. Moonie Times is a joke.
---Mack
MESSIAH Moon for Bush
> Ken Cordier
> said.
Bush Pal SUN MYUNG MOON's Nuke-Tech to ATHEIST North Korea.
The issue is NOT purple hearts in Viet Nam, but Black Hearts in
Washington D.C.
George Bush buddy Sun Myung Moon gave nuclear weapons submarine
sea-launch technology to North Korea in 1994. That technology now
permits North Korea sea-platform launched missiles to hit continental
USA. Bush and Moon are collaborating on "SwiftVet" smear dirty tricks,
using Moon's Washington Times and UPI news operations to peddle felony
frauds.
SUN MYUNG MOON gave North Korea NUKE DELIVERY SYSTEMS.
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Nukes.html
Sun Myung Moon's Japanese Toen Trading company delivered 12 Russian
Golf missile submarines with launch tubes intact. The North Korean
communists studied this technology and adapted their missiles to be
sea launched from surface and submarine platforms. North Korea now has
nuclear weapon strike capability which can reach the continental
United States from sea-based mobile launch facilities at distances of
2,500 miles. This website has clickable links to Sun Myung Moon
subversion sources, documentation, proof.
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Nukes.html
LINKS -- NK sea-missile capability: http://www.navyseals.com
http://www.janes.com http://www.reuters.co.uk http://news.bbc.co.uk
http://www.washingtontimes.com http://www.newscientist.com
http://www.townhall.com http://www.freerepublic.com
http://www.libertyforum.org http://www.theage.com.au
http://www.iht.com http://www.latimes.com
LINKS -- North Korean-born Sun Myung Moon's Toen Trading Submarine
Subversion: http://www.freerepublic.com http://www.usasurvival.org
http://www.gorenfeld.net http://www.davidicke.net
http://blog.mmadsen.org http://www.kenlayne.com
http://www.pandagon.net http://jameswagner.com
http://functionalambivalent.typepad.com http://www.la-mancha.net
http://windsofchange.net http://thoughtcrimes.org http://www.vuw.ac.nz
Sun Myung Moon owns the Washington Times newspaper, and he owns the
UPI (United Press International) wireservice. He controls the main
Washington DC conservative propaganda mill. The Washington Times has
been subsidized by over a billion dollars of moonie slave labor. Every
time that a republican politician quotes the Washington Times, or
writes an article or op-ed in it, Sun Myung Moon is made larger in his
brainwashed follower's eyes. Conservatives are so desperate for
propaganda for their agenda that they willingly aid and abet Sun Myung
Moon's organized crime activities in exchange for the help his
organized crime front operations deliver to them.
Sun Myung Moon has paid ex-presidents, such as George Herbert Walker
Bush up to $10,000,000 for photo-op and endorsements, because his
virtually captive followers have very restricted access to news. They
are told that everybody Moon shakes hands with has accepted Moon as
their lord and savior. This global slave labor force replenishes a $10
million expense for faked stage setting photo-op in a couple of days.
LINKS about Moonies, Bush, Washinton Times connections:
The Moonies: Everything you wanted to know about Sun Myung Moon and
the Unification Church
Moonie and Related Links
* The Right Wing Media Conspiracy - How the Moonies and right wing
groups control the media
* Moonies and the Washington Times - The mouthpiece of Sun Myung
Moon
* Is George Bush a Moonie? - Bush takes $100,000 to endorse the
Moonies
* Inside Look at the Moonies - Great article I snagged
* Moonie Front Organizations - 1000 organization that are Moonie
fronts
* Consortium News - Very good articles about Moonies and other
right wingers
* Bush and Moon - US CIA and Korean CIA?? GHW Bush Praises Sun
Myung Moon as 'Man of Vision'
* Sun Myung Moon - "the Savior, Messiah and King of Kings of all
of humanity"
* The Bush-Kim-Moon Triangle of Money - the political largesse of
Sun Myung Moon.
Sun Myung Moon crowned as Second Coming in DC
The news of a very strange event that occurred at the end of March,
but was quietly swept under the carpet by the mainstream media, is
just now beginning to leak out. Expect to hear more about it in the
coming days. Here's a preview on what surely must be one of the most
bizarre happenings in the long history of Congressional oddities...
It occurred on March 23, 2004 when Reverend Sun Myung Moon, cultist
leader of the Unification Church (currently known as The Family
Federation for World Peace and Unification), was crowned "King of
Peace" in a coronation ceremony. In his coronation speech, Moon told
the audience that it was now time to officially recognize him as the
returned Messiah.
LINKS:
Moon Crowned in the Capital, [Unification Church] Sun Myung Moon
Crowned 'King Of America' At U.S. Senate Building, Hail to the Moon
king, Moon Over Washington, Sun Myung Moon Crowned Messiah By
Congressmen, Sun Myung Moon crowned as Messiah by U.S. Senate! Moonie
leader 'crowned' in Senate, Sun Myung Moon Crowned Messiah! U.S.
Lawmakers Crown rev. Sun Myung Moon Messiah! Here's a guy the
Republicans don't want us to know about. (Actually, it was a democrat
conservative, to the great relief of republican conservatives, who
placed the crown on Moon, in this hoax ceremony. In Moon's world he
replaces all governments with his Taliban, so Republicans and
Democrats all will be liquidated.
The quaint mass marriage ceremonies of the Moonies has another
significance: these represent thousands upon thousand upon thousands
of members of an organized crime empire, as dedicated as body-bomb
suicide muslims, to the eccentric whims of this visibly insane man.
Moonies surreptitiously swell rallies for rightwing causes, clog the
internet forums with their unshakable propaganda-mongering which
cannot be reasoned with, vote as a block and move across state lines
to do it. They even move across international boundaries to meddle in
politics.
Moonies also collaborate with other organized crime rings for mutal
profit.
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Koctopus_01.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Killer_David_Koch.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/CSE_Organized_Crime.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_CFACT.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Seitz_Tobacco_Crimes.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-Nightline.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-1993-1994.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Singer-Seitz.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Stohrer-Singer.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Hazeltine-Singer.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Heidelberg-Appeal.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Sallie_Baliunas.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Walter_Williams_AdTI.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Richard_S_Lindzen.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/ADTI_Frauds_01.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/AdTI_Villians.htm
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Pelosi.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Becky_Norton_Dunlop_AdTI.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Confronting_AdTI.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Chrispeels.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Idsos.html
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Corrupt_Fred_Michel.html
MESSIAH Moon for Bush
Ferrt) twrote
> Ken Cordier
> said.
Sun Myung Moon, the Washington Times, is the proof that Bush is a fake
Christian. No Christian can accept Sun Myung Moon's declaration he is
messiah and "King of Kings". In the context that Moon is NOT SHUNNED
and is not taken to task for selling nuclear sub technology to North
Korea, it means that the Bush abortion story must be considered.
http://www.ecosyn.us/adti/Nukes.html
The gist of the story is Bush drove his underage mexican mistress to
the abortionist and paid the fee. The mistress in question was moved
to an expensive new home during the investigation and now declines to
testify. Friends of the mistress signed affidavits (you know, like the
kind of affidavits the Swift Boat vets signed).
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/30/news-blume.php
JUNE 18 - 24, 2004
The Texas Abortion Tango
The unproven scandal that could have sunk George W. Bush
by Howard Blume
In the winter of the Clinton impeachment, Larry Flynt, the publisher
of Hustler magazine, was a pornographer on a mission -- determined to
dig up sex scandals on the Republicans who’d come after Clinton. It
wasn’t that Flynt was suddenly against sex or even scandalous sex ,
but that he considered the anti-Clinton ringmasters to be cynical,
partisan opportunists -- hypocrites who decried Clinton as morally
unfit while being less fit themselves.
In December 1998, shortly before the impeachment trial, Flynt nailed
incoming Republican House Speaker Robert L. Livingston, who resigned
rather than endure Flynt’s public airing of multiple extramarital
affairs. Flynt also contributed to the downfall of anti-Clinton attack
dog Bob Barr, the Georgia Republican who was a House manager for the
impeachment. Barr lost a re-election bid after revelations about his
alleged adultery -- and about how he allegedly paid for an abortion
for one of his wives, even though he later referred to abortion as
murder while in Congress.
Flynt helped wound but did not end the political careers of
Representatives Dan Burton (out-of-wedlock child) and Henry Hyde (over
a "youthful indiscretion" -- Hyde’s words -- with a married woman that
lasted into his 40s). In some of these cases, Flynt’s role was to
publicize information first unearthed elsewhere.
Eventually, Flynt set his sights on the biggest prize, George W. Bush,
once again offering up to a million dollars for definitive dirt. He
sent investigative reporters to the heart of Texas, first in 1999.
They would look into an allegation that in 1971, George Bush, then
about 25 years old, got a girlfriend pregnant and paid for her illegal
abortion. Flynt got tantalizingly close to documenting such an
episode, but never confirmed enough to justify a press conference. He
would have loved to prove it. Flynt’s hatred of Bush is both visceral
and principled. He’s a bona fide supporter of First Amendment rights
and mainstream Democratic principles, and is commercially pragmatic --
he knows that Bush and his anti-sin crowd would shut down Flynt’s
business if they could.
So what was Flynt to do on the eve of the 2000 presidential election?
Lacking proof, Flynt instead dropped broad hints about the alleged
abortion. He didn’t name names -- other than Bush’s -- because his
lawyer told him he risked a libel suit from the woman in question. The
mainstream press chose to ignore the story -- which is a story in
itself.
Flynt’s account finally gets told in the book Sex, Lies & Politics:
The Naked Truth, scheduled to hit shelves late this month. Flynt
avoids risk of libel by keeping the players anonymous and by avoiding
flat-out claims. He offers instead an account of the investigation.
Flynt provided additional information in interviews with the Weekly,
as did people involved in the investigation, who spoke off the record.
The Texas tango remains something of a page turner. In 2000, Flynt
thought the revelation, if true, ought to push some voters away from
Bush based on what it revealed about his character. The alleged events
of 1971 do say something about the privileges and purview of Bush and
his family and, courtesy of Flynt and some of those involved in the
investigation, you get to read it here first.
"Back in 2000, I got a phone call from an attorney from Houston,"
begins Flynt in a passage about two-thirds of the way through his
book. "He represented a woman we’ll call ‘Susan,’ who supposedly could
prove that, back in the early ’70s, George W. Bush had arranged an
abortion for his girlfriend."
Flynt was immediately interested; here was ammunition to sink Bush in
an election too close to call. It would be damning enough for Bush to
have arranged an abortion, but, even worse, abortion was illegal in
1971, before the Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision. Laws didn’t stop
abortions, of course, though they did make them dangerous and even
life-threatening for most women. The wealthy or well-connected were
frequently luckier; they could often find doctors willing to perform
abortions safely in a hospital or clinic setting. That is what
allegedly happened here.
All of this mattered in the year 2000 because "Bush was successfully
slipping past allegations of cocaine use, drunk driving and being a
useless rich boy," writes Flynt. "But arranging for an abortion was a
more serious matter. Bush’s own supporters said that abortion is
murder."
At the time, in 1971, Bush had been living for about two years in the
Chateaux Dijon apartment complex, a Houston gathering place and party
scene for the young and beautiful as well as the offspring of the rich
and politically potent. Bush was three years out of Yale, where he’d
been an unremarkable student. Soon after graduating, he’d joined the
Texas Air National Guard, an escape valve for sons of the powerful
seeking to avoid service in Vietnam.
The National Guard experience has been covered extensively elsewhere;
long-established evidence suggests Bush jumped a lengthy waiting list
to get in, with helpful intervention from friends of his father. The
elder Bush, who became president in 1988, was prominent even then.
He’d been elected to the U.S. House of Representatives in 1966 and
served as ambassador to the United Nations from 1971 to 1972, after
losing a 1970 race for the Senate. Papa Bush also had a background as
a Texas oilman.
The young George W. Bush of the 1970s was a partier, a drinker and --
by his own hints in later remarks -- a recreational-drug user. There’s
long been speculation that he might have skipped a mandatory National
Guard physical, in August 1972, to avoid a possible drug test. There’s
also doubt about whether he actually completed his service in the
Guard.
But that’s getting ahead of the story. In 1971, according to the
account, an "agitated" young Bush supposedly called an older family
friend. (Flynt calls the friend by the made-up name "Clyde.") Bush
allegedly confessed that he’d gotten his girlfriend pregnant. It was
natural that Bush would call Clyde, because Clyde had been "loosely
assigned to keep the family black sheep, young W., out of trouble," as
Flynt puts it.
Flynt’s source, "Susan," told Flynt’s investigators that she was
Clyde’s girlfriend at the time. She said she was in the room when the
call came from Bush. Clyde allegedly told Bush he’d take care of it,
which meant arranging for an abortion. Susan named the hospital, and
she named the doctor.
Flynt’s researchers found the doctor and confronted him. The doctor
denied having performed an abortion, they reported to Flynt, but oddly
enough, he did remember the woman from his own social visits to
Chateaux Dijon. He described her "as the best-looking woman" who
showed up for parties at the apartment complex.
"My reporters were unable to gain any evidence from the hospital,"
writes Flynt. "The institution had been sold several times over the
years and their records were spotty."
Flynt’s account is seconded by some of those involved in the
investigation. Flynt’s researchers spent about three months total in
Texas trying to obtain documentary confirmation. In interviews with
the Weekly, sources who took part in the investigation supplied
details not in Flynt’s soon-to-be-published account. They told, for
example, how his investigators tracked down Bush’s former girlfriend.
They say the woman acknowledged, through her husband, that she had
dated Bush for six months. But she also insisted to a friend (who
spoke with Flynt’s investigators) that she and Bush never had sex. She
said to the same friend that she’d been in the hospital for a dilation
and curettage, or D&C, which is surgery involving a scraping of the
wall of the uterus. It was a common form of doctor-supervised abortion
in the early 1970s. But the woman maintained that her D&C was not an
abortion, but for another medical purpose. A D&C is sometimes
performed after a miscarriage or in non-pregnant women who have
abnormal bleeding, fibroids or polyps.
In other words, the researchers found intriguing circumstantial
support, but no proof. The investigators then tried a different tack.
"Susan, in an effort to jump-start the investigation, contacted Clyde,
told him that some reporters were bugging her about the incident, and
asked for his help," writes Flynt. "She told us that he first casually
denied any knowledge of what she was talking about, then in a later
conversation, threatened her and told her to keep her mouth shut."
In interviews with the Weekly, Flynt said he is convinced that the
former Bush girlfriend had been bought off. He said that before his
investigation, the woman had a low-wage job and her husband was
unemployed. After his researchers started poking around, said Flynt,
the husband emerged with a well-paid federal law-enforcement job and
the family moved into an expensive house in a Texas resort area.
That’s not exactly how some others involved in the investigation
analyzed the evidence. The husband was a veteran law-enforcement
officer, they said. In other words, it was neither peculiar nor
improper that he would hold a job with a federal law-enforcement
agency. In addition, the couple was not demonstrably living beyond
their economic means. The woman’s husband also seemed surprised to
hear about his wife’s alleged 1971 trip to the hospital when
confronted, the sources said. This reaction was inconsistent with
having been bought off.
You get the sense that Flynt wanted the story out so desperately that
his own remembering became a bit skewed. He did, however, ask his
researchers to fact-check the details that actually appear in the
book. And the allegation about the woman being paid off is not in
there.
The researchers finally told Flynt they felt they could take the
investigation no further. "They said they didn’t want to waste my
money," said Flynt in an interview, "and I appreciated that."
As one person directly involved in this investigation said to the
Weekly, "Circumstantially, the story made a lot of sense, but none of
the major figures were really talking."
Flynt hoped the national media would take the matter further, perhaps
by launching their own probes, or even by just asking Bush a pointed
question during a press conference. Flynt called Tim Russert of NBC
News, which sent a reporter to Flynt’s office to look over his
material. This reporter, said Flynt in an interview, was David Bloom,
the same reporter who died of a pulmonary embolism at age 39 while
covering the war in Iraq in April 2003. Flynt said Bloom declined to
pick up the baton. "He said, ‘Larry, I just can’t do it. Something
like this could change the outcome of the election.’"
An NBC spokeswoman essentially confirmed Flynt’s account in an
e-mailed response to a series of questions. "No discussion about the
substance of the rumor took place with Mr. Russert," said Barbara
Levin. Flynt "contacted Mr. Russert, NBC News’ Washington Bureau
Chief, and as is often the case, Russert simply passed the information
on to a reporter to follow up. As you note, David Bloom did follow up
and used his editorial judgment that the rumor was not solid enough to
go with a story." Levin commented that Flynt "called several news
organizations, including NBC News," but she declined to address why
NBC reporters elected not to question Bush about the subject.
An exasperated Flynt decided to get the message out himself, though
time was running short. Howard Stern interviewed him, but the segment
ran only once, writes Flynt, on Stern’s live show. He also appeared on
KROQ-FM’s Kevin and Bean Morning Show in August.
Then, on October 20, 2000, Flynt appeared on CNN’s Crossfire. The
subject of the show concerned porn and the Internet, but Flynt took
advantage of live TV to launch his spiel. Conservative host Robert
Novak challenged Flynt as having "no proof."
"The hell we don’t have proof," Flynt retorted. (Of course, Flynt
didn’t have proof.) Novak then asked Flynt if he was a Gore supporter.
Flynt responded that he didn’t like either candidate and that he’d
vote for the lesser of two evils.
The camera cut from Flynt, never to return. Liberal but skeptical
co-host Bill Press sardonically remarked, "You never know. Live
television." Flynt claims that CNN expurgated this exchange from its
transcript, and at the time, some online wags came to the same
conclusion and quickly posted alerts. Currently, two versions of the
transcript appear on the widely used Nexis database. One version has
the full exchange about the alleged abortion. The other omits the
discussion entirely. It’s identified as a "rush transcript" that "may
not be in its final form and may be updated."
Syndicated gossip Liz Smith finally picked up the story, with a few
details off-
kilter, on November 6, the day before the election. She wrote:
Hot on the heels of the George W. Bush DUI revelation (in Maine, it’s
called OUI -- Operating Under the Influence), comes word that
porn-king muckraker Larry Flynt is charging that a girlfriend of W.’s,
back in 1970, had an abortion. But that’s not the story, as there’s no
evidence that Bush even knew about the pregnancy. The real story --
according to the Internet’s About.com -- is that Flynt’s remarks were
apparently censored from CNN’s Crossfire, and the entire transcript of
the show vanished from the CNN Web site. The media has been willing to
crucify Bill and Hillary Clinton with the worst sort of specious
rumor-mongering, so why was this sleazy tidbit too hot for the
"responsible" press to ask about?
Her item on Bush was cut from her column everywhere, in more than 100
papers, except for the New Jersey Star-Ledger. Flynt then contacted
Daily Variety’s gossip columnist Army Archerd, who wrote on November
7, the day of the election:
FREEDOM OF THE PRESS? Larry Flynt says his comments about a hush-hush
1970 Houston abortion, on a rumored girlfriend of George W. Bush, have
been stifled by the mainstream media. (Flynt claims knowledge of the
identity of the girl, the hospital, etc. He never printed it, "because
she’d deny it; you’d have egg on your face and you’d face a libel
suit.") Still, he’s more concerned with the fact that the media is
ignoring the rumors . . . "My whole focus," said Flynt, "was on the
lack of investigation by the media -- in other words, they never asked
Bush."
The story did get some international play just before the 2000
election in newspapers in England. And that was pretty much the end of
it. Bush claimed the presidency unbesmirched by this particular tale.
Eventually, Flynt decided to include the episode in his book.
The subject first came up at the Weekly, in recent times, when Flynt
stopped by last fall to tout his vanity candidacy for governor during
the campaign to recall Governor Gray Davis. Flynt took advantage of
the interview to promote a proposed initiative that would permit
non-tribal casino gambling -- he owns a casino -- as a way both to get
personally richer and to help solve the state’s budget crisis. An
editor asked offhandedly whatever happened to his investigation into
Bush. That got Flynt going:
"We worked that story for six months," he said. "We had everybody,
including the hospital that performed the abortion, the doctor who did
it, you know, affidavits from four of her friends. You know, we, we
had it all. But at the last minute she stopped cooperating, and this
was just about a month before the election."
Flynt was shooting from the hip, without reviewing his own
investigators’ files. The Weekly asked for documentation, but Flynt
and his representative never provided it, though Flynt did discuss the
matter at length in a late-April interview, after he reviewed his
documentation. His book publicist said there were still libel concerns
regarding the release of original documents. She said she also didn’t
want articles to appear before they could assist book sales. Obtaining
Flynt’s files became less necessary after people directly involved in
the investigation agreed to talk freely and separately about their
work, provided that their names not be disclosed. They were willing to
share the real names, confidentially, of all the persons involved. The
Weekly has not independently verified their accounts, which is why
real names aren’t used here either. But their chronicles are
believable, especially because they acknowledge that they ultimately
failed to deliver the goods. There could be no hedging the evidence on
a story like this, they said, especially when their employer was
Flynt, whose credibility would be questioned.
Even though his book was still months away, Flynt finally couldn’t
contain himself during a February 2004 interview with New York’s Daily
News.
"I’ve talked to the woman’s friends," Flynt is quoted as saying. "I’ve
tracked down the doctor who did the abortion, I tracked down the Bush
people who arranged for the abortion . . . I got the story nailed."
The anecdote got some airing, especially after it was repeated by pop
musician Moby. But the attention came almost entirely from the British
and Australian press. They played it up as an example of mudslinging,
sometimes pairing it with unsubstantiated rumors of a John Kerry
affair.
In 2000, if the story had taken off, would it have mattered? Should it
have mattered?
In the razor-thin 2000 election, it’s hard to deny that anything that
could change votes could have made a difference. Flynt hoped the
abortion account would paint W. as a hypocrite. Bush already looked
every inch a hypocrite to critics who saw him ally with rich corporate
interests, while savaging the poor behind a façade of "compassionate
conservatism."
But Bush supporters see the world and Bush so differently. Many are
drawn by his appeal to traditional values and free enterprise,
regardless of his actual policies. And many of Bush’s die-hard
religious-right supporters had ample reason to forgive Bush, even for
an abortion. His entire story, from their perspective, is one of a
sinner redeemed, the type of soul who can, in an odd way, sometimes
shine brighter than the less fallible person who never required such
redemption. It didn’t matter so much, therefore, if Bush had been a
drunk, if he had used cocaine, if he’d had premarital sex -- if he’d
been the wayward prodigal son. At one level, such behavior made him an
ordinary guy, just like ordinary people everywhere. At another, his
reform underscored his exemplary born-again identity and his
unwavering commitment to conservative Christian values. For many
Christians, Bush stands on the upright side of the before-versus-after
divide intrinsic to a belief system in which a person must be
personally saved from his sins by Jesus. Indeed, to the religious
right, George W. Bush is more the real deal than his better-behaving,
high-achieving father ever was.
How about the fence sitters of 2004? Should the alleged incident
matter to them?
Maybe, but its relevance stacks up weakly compared to that of the Iraq
invasion, the ballooning federal deficit, the erosion of civil
liberties and the ongoing subjugation of environmental protection to
corporate interests. It is with such matters that even Flynt’s own
book is primarily concerned, though he does spare a few words to
discuss his boyhood experience of sex with a chicken.
Flynt’s investigators weren’t bloodhounding this one anecdote alone.
Along the way, they also met with author J.H. Hatfield, who alleged
that, in 1972, George W. Bush was arrested for possession of cocaine
and, with the help of his father, got the charges erased in exchange
for performing community service.
Hatfield cited anonymous sources in his book Fortunate Son: George W.
Bush and the Making of an American President. Hatfield’s first
publisher got cold feet and ultimately destroyed its copies of
Hatfield’s book.
Flynt’s investigators met with Hatfield and repeatedly pressed him for
additional details. They wanted to pursue the story further. But
Hatfield finally stormed out of their meeting. Hatfield died, an
apparent suicide, in July 2001.
The researchers also checked out rumors of a Bush cocaine binge in the
early 1990s that were called into Flynt. If true, it would mean Bush
lied about when he’d given up drugs. When asked in 1999 about drug
use, Bush was quoted as saying, "As I understand it, the current [FBI]
form asks the question, ‘Did somebody use drugs within the last seven
years?’ and I will be glad to answer that question, and the answer is
no." He also said, "Not only could I pass the background check of the
standards applied in today’s White House, I could have passed the
background check on the standards applied on the most stringent
conditions when my dad was president of the United States, a 15-year
period."
Once again, the researchers came up with nothing that met journalistic
standards of proof, although their entire chasing-Bush experience
would make a heck of a plot for a buddy movie.
"Flynt was interested mainly in two things: pussy and drugs," noted
one researcher, who now considers that preoccupation quaint and
ironic. "Here we were looking at Bush’s personal life and the whole
Enron scandal was happening right under our noses."
MESSIAH Moon for Bush
Ferrt) twrote
> Ken Cordier
> said.
SwiftLiar Repug Oregon Prosecutor Going Down in Hail of Exposure
Bullets -- VETS against Republican Operative Who FELONY FRAUD Lied on
a SwiftLies Ad... THE TRUTH COMES OUT -- He wasn't there, he saw
nothing, he was rehearsed by three Kerry enemies.
One by One the SwiftLiars are falling until the smoke all clears there
won't be a single one left standing.
August 24, 2004
http://tinyurl.com/4zmpj
http://news.google.com Results 41 for Alfred French Swift Boat.
http://tinyurl.com/5c4cn Oregon Vietnam veterans accuse Kerry critic
of misleading the ...
Coos Bay World, OR - 33 minutes ago
... The veterans want Alfred French, a 20-year employee of the
Clackamas County district ... having appeared in an ad sponsored by
the group Swift Boat Veterans for ...
http://tinyurl.com/5bmb7 Vets protest prosecutor in anti-Kerry ad
Boston.com, MA - 51 minutes ago
... Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/486oe Oregon vets protest prosecutor's statement in
anti-Kerry ad
San Francisco Chronicle, CA - 57 minutes ago
Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/6q3xl Vets Say Prosecutor Lied in Anti-Kerry Ad
Capitol Hill Blue, VA - 1 hour ago
... Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/5dgh5 Oregon veterans protest DA in anti-Kerry ad
Raleigh News, NC - 1 hour ago
... Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/6o8rn Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
WJLA, DC - 2 hours ago
Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/5oejq Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
Guardian, UK - 2 hours ago
... Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/4exzk Prosecutor under fire for anti-Kerry role
MSNBC - 2 hours ago
Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney痴 office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/3spp7 Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
phillyburbs.com, PA - 2 hours ago
... Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/3qvj9 Vets protest prosecutor in anti-Kerry ad
MLive.com, MI - 2 hours ago
... Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/6fg7c Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
philly.com (subscription), PA - 2 hours ago
Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/4jg3e Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
Los Angeles Times (subscription), CA - 2 hours ago
... Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/4eulj Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
Miami Herald (subscription), FL - 2 hours ago
Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/4m7cb Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
Newsday, NY - 2 hours ago
... Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/5eotg Vets protest prosecutor in anti-Kerry ad
Seattle Post Intelligencer, WA - 2 hours ago
... Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/3vw2k Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
San Jose Mercury News (subscription), CA - 2 hours ago
Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/3kzvg Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
The State, SC - 2 hours ago
Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/4oyz9 Vets Protest Prosecutor in Anti-Kerry Ad
ABC News - 2 hours ago
Alfred French of the Clackamas County district attorney's office
appears in the ad sponsored by the group Swift Boat Veterans for
Truth. ...
http://tinyurl.com/5ndon WASHINGTON, Aug. 24 /US Newswire/ --
Following is a fact sheet ...
U.S. Newswire (press release), DC - 2 hours ago
... The veterans want Alfred French, a 20-year employee of the
Clackamas County district ... having appeared in an ad sponsored by
the group Swift Boat Veterans for ...
http://tinyurl.com/5ndon Vietnam vets rally against Clackamas County
prosecutor
Oregonian, OR - 7 hours ago
... on the Main Street steps of the county courthouse, said of Alfred
French. ... French's comments have been used in anti-Kerry ads by
Swift Boat Veterans for ...
http://tinyurl.com/57qf3 Veterans call for Kerry critic to resign
Salem Statesman Journal, OR - 9 hours ago
... The veterans want Alfred French, a 20-year employee of the
Clackamas County district ... having appeared in an ad sponsored by
the group Swift Boat Veterans for ...
http://tinyurl.com/6cl6b Veterans gather on county courthouse steps to
accuse Kerry critic ...
Corvallis Gazette Times, OR - 13 hours ago
... Alfred French, a 20-year employee of the district attorney's
office here, resign from his job for having appeared in an ad
sponsored by the group Swift Boat ...
http://tinyurl.com/46rjw Veterans accuse Kerry critic of misleading
the public
kgw.com (subscription), OR - 17 hours ago
... The veterans want Alfred French, a 20-year employee of the
Clackamas County district ... having appeared in an ad sponsored by
the group Swift Boat Veterans for ...
http://tinyurl.com/5bf5k Vets, others call for resignation of
prosecutor in Swift Boat ad
kgw.com (subscription), OR - 22 hours ago
... Alfred French, 58, a senior deputy district attorney, appeared in
the recent ad by the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth and said: "I served
with John Kerry. . . . ...
http://tinyurl.com/64plw The Swift Boat war
Oregonian, OR - Aug 22, 2004
... such as Clackamas County prosecutor Alfred French, who are ...
game for those who, like French, believe he ... The Swift Boat
veterans attacking Kerry fall well below ...
http://tinyurl.com/5ewdo Vietnam vets battle over Kerry
Oregonian, OR - Aug 21, 2004
... Alfred French, a Clackamas County prosecutor who also served ...
said he's not surprised by French's statements, given ... it seeks to
denounce the Swift boat veterans ...
http://tinyurl.com/3rtwt Oregon man says Kerry lied about war record
Salem Statesman Journal, OR - Aug 21, 2004
Alfred French, 58, a senior deputy district attorney, appears in ...
In the ad, French says, 的 served with ... three Purple Hearts
commanding a swift boat in Vietnam ...
http://tinyurl.com/4bgqv 3 Oregon vets at center of pro, con Kerry ads
kgw.com (subscription), OR - Aug 20, 2004
... Commission against an ad by Swift Boat Veterans For ... From left
to right: Rassmann, McPeak and French. ... features 13 veterans
including Alfred French, a Clackamas ...
MESSIAH Moon for Bush
Ferrt) twrote
> Ken Cordier
> said.
August 25, 2004: Bush-Cheney Campaign Lawyer Exposed Coordinating
SwiftLiars SmearBoats
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2004/08/25/politics/campaign/20040825_SWIFT_GRAPH.html
http://tinyurl.com/56haz Another Great Graph Showing the Connections
Between the Bush Cartel and the Swift Boat Liars 8/25
http://tinyurl.com/6hc7e SwiftLiar O'Neill on Tape with NIXON, admits
he was in Cambodia on a Swift Boat.
http://tinyurl.com/6hc7e CNN is reporting the O'Neill Cambodia Story
Right NOW!!!
http://mediamatters.org/items/200408250002 The lies of John O'Neill:
Swift Boat Vets' founder has told repeated untruths about himself,
Swift Boat Vets, Unfit for Command
[Don't forget to document each and every instance that Sun Myung
Moon's WASHINGTON TIMES involves itself using CHURCH PROPERTY to smear
a candidate in our election. Moon sent Nuke-Weapons sea-launch mobile
platform tech to ATHEIST North Korea, and the ties to the Bush family
and campaign need explaining.]
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0824-06.htm
*** http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=3871178
Bush Campaign Lawyer Quits over Kerry Ads
***
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/25/politics/main638542.shtml
Swift Boat Ties Sink Bush Lawyer
***
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=6069652
Bush Campaign Lawyer Quits Over Ties to Ads Group
***
http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=5171354
Bush campaign lawyer quits over Kerry ad
*** http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3599216.stm
Bush lawyer quits over ads link
***
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-082504ginsberg_lat,1,7836929.story?coll=la-home-headlines
http://tinyurl.com/3m6oy Bush Campaign Lawyer Resigns
***
http://www.adweek.com/aw/national/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000618602
http://tinyurl.com/68u66 Bush Attorney Resigns Amid Ad Flap
*** http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3406892
Lawyer Quits Bush Campaign
***
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=6068725
Bush Campaign Lawyer Quits Over Ties to Ads Group
*** http://www.itv.com/news/index_1956898.html
Bush lawyer resigns over 'Kerry lies'
*** http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5818634/
Navy records appear to support Kerry's version - Veterans' lawyer
quits Bush campaign
***
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=a6DxxfGTt.Uc&refer=top_world_news
http://tinyurl.com/567eo
***
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31867-2004Aug25.html
Bush Campaign Chief Outside Lawyer Resigns
***
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/federal/20040825-0811-veteransgroup-bush.html
http://tinyurl.com/54hge Lawyer advising veterans group running
anti-Kerry ads resigns from Bush campaign
*** http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040825_869.html
Lawyer Resigns From Bush Campaign
*** http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2004/s1185201.htm
Foot soldiers wage dirty war in US election campaign
*** http://www.iht.com/articles/535673.html
Bush's campaign lawyer aided Swift Boat group
*** http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/25/opinion/25wed2.html
Swift Boats and the Texas Nexus
*** http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5814177/
Bush-Cheney lawyer advised anti-Kerry vets
***
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/whitehouse/la-na-kerry25aug25,1,502750.story?coll=la-news-politics-white_house
http://tinyurl.com/43ynp Kerry Accuses Bush of 'Fear and Smear'
***
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/whitehouse/la-na-swiftboat25aug25,1,2430870.story?coll=la-news-politics-white_house
http://tinyurl.com/3qur2 Bush Lawyer Also Advises Anti-Kerry Veterans
*** http://www.indystar.com/articles/6/173058-5486-010.html
Kerry: GOP using 'fear and smear' tactics
*** http://www.kfvs12.com/Global/story.asp?S=2220819
Navy's report from 1969 supports Kerry's version of disputed incident
***
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/bush/articles/2004/08/25/lawyer_advising_vets_quits_bush_campaign_1093463269/
http://tinyurl.com/3wsdc Lawyer advising vets quits Bush campaign
mclark
> idont...@toemail.com (mclark) wrote in message
> news:<1gj2ncu.1poediu6oaoraN%idont...@toemail.com>... >
> <archie...@spankrightwing.com> wrote: >
> > > On 25 Aug 2004 03:50:18 -0700, wolfb...@mindspring.com (Donald L
> > > Ferrt) wrote:
> > >
> > > >"This is going to be the POW story," he said. "They are going to be
> > > >telling about the documentary ... and will tell the story about how
> > > >John Kerry betrayed the POWs, his fellow Vietnam veterans and the
> > > >country."
> > >
> > > How did Kerry "betray" them when he was relating what other vets had
> > > sworn to during a congressional hearing where HE was "under oath" to
> > > tell the truth?
> >
> > If I understand your statement correctly, why is it ok when John Kerry
> > relates what he heard from other vets about alleged attrocities but not
> > ok for Al French, the Vet who testified against Kerry in the first Swift
> > Vet ad, to relate what he heard from other vets about John Kerry? But
> > if this is what is going on then John Kerry supporters are practicing
> > double standards. Proverbs 20:10
> >
>
> I guess it depends if Al French states on the ad something like "This
> is what other vets told me". If you want to use the same standard,
> this is basically what Kerry did in his testimony. If Al French just
???????
No. None of this "basically" crap. I want you to post Kerry's exact
disclaimer.
> makes statements like they are fact and he has direct knowledge of
> events than I would say he is being underhanded. Personally I don't
> mind anyone complaining about Kerry's testimony. However the latest
> SBVFT ad takes his statements out of context by omitting the fact that
> he was relating what he had been told by others. I guess they felt
> that correct context was not damming enough so they had to use
> deception. Again I consider this underhanded.
I look forward to reading Kerry's exact disclaimer in your next post.
M. Clark
Ram Firestone
Kerry's whole testimony is quite long, however I have posted the part
that pertains to the question at hand. You will notice the fifth
paragraph starts "they told the stories". I think it's very clear he
was relating what he heard in Detroit from other veterans. Let me know
if you have any more questions I can help you with.
"Thank you very much, Senator Fulbright, Senator Javits, Senator
Symington, Senator Pell. I would like to say for the record, and also
for the men behind me who are also wearing the uniforms and their
medals, that my sitting here is really symbolic. I am not here as John
Kerry. I am here as one member of the group of veterans in this
country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table
they would be here and have the same kind of testimony.
I would simply like to speak in very general terms. I apologize if my
statement is general because I received notification yesterday you
would hear me and I am afraid because of the injunction I was up most
of the night and haven't had a great deal of chance to prepare.
I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that
several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over
150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans
testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated
incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full
awareness of officers at all levels of command.
It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in
Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were
reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the
absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.
They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off
ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human
genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies,
randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of
Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and
generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the
normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging
which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.
We call this investigation the "Winter Soldier Investigation." The
term "Winter Soldier" is a play on words of Thomas Paine in 1776 when
he spoke of the Sunshine Patriot and summertime soldiers who deserted
at Valley Forge because the going was rough.
We who have come here to Washington have come here because we feel we
have to be winter soldiers now. We could come back to this country; we
could be quiet; we could hold our silence; we could not tell what went
on in Vietnam, but we feel because of what threatens this country, the
fact that the crimes threaten it, no reds, and not redcoats but the
crimes which we are committing that threaten it, that we have to speak
out."
mclark
Thank you for making the effort.
>
> "Thank you very much, Senator Fulbright, Senator Javits, Senator
> Symington, Senator Pell. I would like to say for the record, and also
> for the men behind me who are also wearing the uniforms and their
> medals, that my sitting here is really symbolic. I am not here as John
> Kerry. I am here as one member of the group of veterans in this
> country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table
> they would be here and have the same kind of testimony.
Some vets understandably wanted to vent their frusration about Vietnam.
But insecure Kerry gives the impression that their actual numbers were
vast, really hiding behind a "strength in numbers" facade.
>
> I would simply like to speak in very general terms. I apologize if my
> statement is general because I received notification yesterday you
> would hear me and I am afraid because of the injunction I was up most
> of the night and haven't had a great deal of chance to prepare.
Kerry is expressing himself in general terms probably because a lot of
what he will say he is just passing along - just like Al French did.
Also, I will suggest the possibility that John Kerry has never been able
to organize his thoughts about tough social issues. He may be quite
willing to give a face to the "disadvantaged masses" but doesn't
understand core problems enough to volunteer a specific remedy - just
like he is doing now as a presidential hopeful.
>
> I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that
> several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over
> 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans
> testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated
> incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full
> awareness of officers at all levels of command.
Again, Kerry's "general terms" uwittingly created a stigma that haunted
Vietnam vets for decades.
>
> It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in
> Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were
> reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the
> absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.
Interestingly, investigations of the allegations made by these vets that
Kerry was representing showed that they were somehow never quite able to
express their experiences the way they did in Detroit again anyway. In
my opinion, their reluctance to cooperate undermined the credibility of
their allegations.
>
> They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off
> ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human
> genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies,
> randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of
> Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and
> generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam in addition to the
> normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging
> which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.
Again, who is the "they" of the first word of the above paragraph?
Kerry's supporters remain clueless to this day that by clumsily painting
the wrong picture of the average Vietnam vet, Kerry has cost thousands
of good Vietnam vets their quality of life.
>
> We call this investigation the "Winter Soldier Investigation." The
> term "Winter Soldier" is a play on words of Thomas Paine in 1776 when
> he spoke of the Sunshine Patriot and summertime soldiers who deserted
> at Valley Forge because the going was rough.
>
> We who have come here to Washington have come here because we feel we
> have to be winter soldiers now. We could come back to this country; we
> could be quiet; we could hold our silence; we could not tell what went
> on in Vietnam, but we feel because of what threatens this country, the
> fact that the crimes threaten it, no reds, and not redcoats but the
> crimes which we are committing that threaten it, that we have to speak
> out."
I'm not impressed with Kerry's "stream of consciousness" thinking. And
his reputation for flip-flopping indicates that the man simply doesn't
take responsibility for his many words anyway.
Again, what's the difference between the quality of the alleged
attrocities that Kerry had only heard about from other vets and the
quality of what three vets allegedly told Al French about Kerry?
M. Clark
mhirtes
wolfb...@mindspring.com (Donald L Ferrt) wrote:
> http://about.upi.com/products/perspectives/UPI-20040824-095915-7054R
>
> Ex-POWs to launch anti-Kerry Web site
> By RICHARD TOMKINS
> WASHINGTON, Aug. 24 (UPI) -- Sen. John Kerry's anti-war activism
> following his service in Vietnam is coming under attack by former U.S.
> prisoners of war and their families, who are launching a Web site and
> documentary that will likely further fuel election campaign rancor,
> sources told UPI Tuesday.
>
> The Web site, "Stolenhonor.com." could be online as early as Thursday
> night or Friday and will feature comments and statements about Kerry,
> the Democratic Party's nominee for president, by former inmates of
> North Vietnam's infamous "Hanoi Hilton" prison complex, Ken Cordier
> said.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Just more Karl Rove hijinx now that his Not-Too-Swiftbastards Against
Truth scam is starting to finally become unraveled.