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China Is Entering A 'Danger Zone' [Charts]
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Aug 21, 2012, 9:27:13 PM8/21/12
to
China Is Entering A 'Danger Zone' [Charts]
By Mamta Badkar
Business Insider
Tuesday, August 21, 2012
Even as China promises to maintain a "firm grip" on real
estate, many are still concerned about a property bubble
and hard-landing, in terms of a slowdown and financial
crisis.
At a speech delivered in Sydney, Kiyohiko G. Nishimura,
deputy governor of the Bank of Japan said China is now
"entering the danger zone" that could lead to a financial
crisis.
Looking back at Japan's experience in the 1990s, and the
American experience in the 2000s, that triggered "malign"
as opposed to benign bubbles and led to financial crises,
Nishimura says: "it is clear that not every bubble-bust
episode leads to a financial crisis. However, if a
demographic change, a property price bubble, and a steep
increase in loans coincide, then a financial crisis seems
more likely. And China is now entering the "danger
zone."
The first chart looks at what happened when the working-
age population ratio, real land price, and loans peaked
at the same time in Japan:
Continues here:
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-entering-a-danger-zone-2012-8
Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti
By Mamta Badkar
Business Insider
Tuesday, August 21, 2012
Even as China promises to maintain a "firm grip" on real
estate, many are still concerned about a property bubble
and hard-landing, in terms of a slowdown and financial
crisis.
At a speech delivered in Sydney, Kiyohiko G. Nishimura,
deputy governor of the Bank of Japan said China is now
"entering the danger zone" that could lead to a financial
crisis.
Looking back at Japan's experience in the 1990s, and the
American experience in the 2000s, that triggered "malign"
as opposed to benign bubbles and led to financial crises,
Nishimura says: "it is clear that not every bubble-bust
episode leads to a financial crisis. However, if a
demographic change, a property price bubble, and a steep
increase in loans coincide, then a financial crisis seems
more likely. And China is now entering the "danger
zone."
The first chart looks at what happened when the working-
age population ratio, real land price, and loans peaked
at the same time in Japan:
Continues here:
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-entering-a-danger-zone-2012-8
Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti
Mr.B1ack
Aug 21, 2012, 10:04:18 PM8/21/12
to
On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 01:27:13 +0000, Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
> China Is Entering A 'Danger Zone' [Charts]
>
> By Mamta Badkar
> Business Insider
> Tuesday, August 21, 2012
>
> Even as China promises to maintain a "firm grip" on real estate, many
> are still concerned about a property bubble and hard-landing, in terms
> of a slowdown and financial crisis.
>
> At a speech delivered in Sydney, Kiyohiko G. Nishimura, deputy governor
> of the Bank of Japan said China is now "entering the danger zone" that
> could lead to a financial crisis.
China may indeed be in deep doo-doo ... and a huge real-estate
> China Is Entering A 'Danger Zone' [Charts]
>
> By Mamta Badkar
> Business Insider
> Tuesday, August 21, 2012
>
> Even as China promises to maintain a "firm grip" on real estate, many
> are still concerned about a property bubble and hard-landing, in terms
> of a slowdown and financial crisis.
>
> At a speech delivered in Sydney, Kiyohiko G. Nishimura, deputy governor
> of the Bank of Japan said China is now "entering the danger zone" that
> could lead to a financial crisis.
bubble is only one of its problems. China has invested VAST
amounts of money building industrial infrastructure over the
past five years or so - while, at the same time, destroying the
financial security of the countries/people those factories were
planning to sell to. China also got millions of young people to
move from the hinterlands to the big cities and led them to
believe there would be lots of work, rapidly improving pay and
a wonderful new standard of living awaiting them.
SO ... the reality ... those investments and loans are NOT going
to pay off in any timely fashion, the millions and millions of
young people are going to be TRAPPED in the cities without much
work or money or prospects thereof AND anyone counting on real-
estate investments are going to be VERY disappointed.
IMHO, there's a very real chance of some kind of revolution
in China within the next few years. When Japan did pretty
much the same things - and lost big-time - well, they're
Japanese ... they just went home and sulked (and STILL are).
But Chinese are not Japanese, I think they'll get ANGRY
and VIOLENT instead. The govt will attempt a crackdown -
thus totally de-legitimizing itself - but it will be in a
poor position to do so because the money situation will
be so bad.
Whether we're talking a major revolution or just some
considerable purging of the existing power structure,
I just don't know. However from the escalating lies
the govt is telling and the escalating crackdowns on
dissent, communications and even religion ... I'd say
the present govt knows that BIG trouble is on the
horizon.
At least Japan had a decent social-welfare safety net.
China has been growing so fast it hasn't bothered to
create any such safety features either for the citizens
or for the industries and banks. If (when) a real money-
crunch strikes it will have rapid and severe impact -
further increasing the liklihood of a coup or revolution.
rst9
Aug 21, 2012, 10:55:29 PM8/21/12
to
Jasmine Revolution for China. This year, they still have a 7.6%
growth while Greece, Spain, Italy,... are going bankrupt, and the U.S.
is in debt for 15 trillion dollars. It's all wishful thinking.
Nickname unavailable
Aug 22, 2012, 1:14:55 AM8/22/12
to
at best. i bet there might be a little growth, but not enough to break
even. far lower than you quote. europe can turn around on a dime, they
just need to dump the conservatives.
the u.s. owes lots of money, but a good chunk of it we owe to
ourselves. we to can dump the conservatives and grow. like europe, we
have better paid workers who can consume, china does not.
Nickname unavailable
Aug 22, 2012, 1:11:48 AM8/22/12
to
power, and i laugh every time i hear someone from the conservative
legacy media, describe china as the second largest economy in the
world. the chinese economy is built on the demand of the western
worker. the western workers wages have been destroyed by the chinese
communist party, and lots of willing parasites and supporters of the
chinese communist party, in the boardrooms of western corporations.
china barely has the capability to consume about 1/3rd of what they
make. in the west, its well over 2/3rds. so i have been waiting for
the inevitable slowdown, and its going to hit them hard. no safety net
means lots of hungry bellies. as usual, milton friedman was wrong.
Mr.B1ack
Aug 22, 2012, 6:26:57 PM8/22/12
to
the govt perks for offshoring are still in place.
China HAS made a LOT of money ... but, as you said,
it hasn't been used to create a strong, safe, economic
foundation for the country. They are desperately at
the mercy of their exports - and have built in a way
that absolutely *depends* on high or increasing
export sales.
But now that they've destroyed too many western
businesses, well, there went the customer base.
Exports are rapidly decreasing and growth will
likely soon cease alltogether. I don't think they
can survive even a no-growth situation, much less
any decline below previous peaks. Their building
frenzy left them with no *reserves* to speak of,
no Plan-B, no safety nets, no silverware to
pawn - just bills coming due.
They also foolishly lent terabucks to the US and
others to keep their badly-managed faux-economies
afloat. If they'd required sensible reforms as a
condition that would have been something else, but
they didn't. As is, they're basically giving us money
to buy their products ... which can be made to look
good on paper for awhile - but not for long. It's a
losing game.
I think at least SOME of the offshoring was 'collateral'
for the loans, in disguise. Alas all that really did
was put even MORE of their customers on the soup line.
> china barely has the capability to consume about 1/3rd of what they
> make. in the west, its well over 2/3rds. so i have been waiting for the
> inevitable slowdown, and its going to hit them hard. no safety net means
> lots of hungry bellies. as usual, milton friedman was wrong.
and blind zeal with an inexperience with modern capitalism.
What you get is an extinction-level economic apocalypse in
the making.
Unfortunately this one involves over a billion people,
a large military with nukes and ambitious generals and
lots of other peoples investments. Look at how much
damage tiny little Greece did when IT went broke and
took all those investments down with it. Almost every
manufacturing and tech biz in the world now relies on
Chinese workers and factories for part of all of their
products... so what happens if those suddenly cease
to exist ? What happens to the western faux-economies
if China can't lend 'em any more money ?
Seems as if the world built its fiscal metropolis right
on top of a major fiscal fault zone ... and the little
tremors are getting larger and more frequent ....
Mr.B1ack
Aug 22, 2012, 6:41:13 PM8/22/12
to
time the Gang Of Five got theirs. Since then, it's
been a new and slowly westernizing China. Critical
mass was achieved on the late 80s. As Japan declined
China assumed their role and then set out to pretty
much own the world.
Not realizing they'd be purchasing a slum.
> This year, they still have a 7.6% growth
to cook the books, SO easy to re-arrange
categories and change definitions, SO easy
to create the illusion of success even as
the foundations crumble beneath everyones
feet. Western govts are experts a this, and
apparently China has copied them.
In short, I think your 'growth' is a manufactured
lie and that even 7.6% wouldn't be ENOUGH growth
to pay off all the capital investments that have
been made over the past several years. You've
put vast fortunes into building factories that
will never sell enough products to even pay
the electricity bill for keeping the lights on -
and that's only the tip of the proverbial iceberg.
ltl...@hotmail.com
Aug 22, 2012, 7:01:47 PM8/22/12
to
On Aug 21, 9:27 pm, use...@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr.
The claim on China entering a danger is not supported by the charts.
The Japanese and the US chart show rapid decline in property price as
well as credit expansion. Such declines allow one to conclude the
housing bubble in Japan and in the US had burst. The Chinese chart,
however, does not show similar declines.
The Japanese and the US chart show rapid decline in property price as
well as credit expansion. Such declines allow one to conclude the
housing bubble in Japan and in the US had burst. The Chinese chart,
however, does not show similar declines.
and/or www.mantra.com/jai
Aug 22, 2012, 7:26:33 PM8/22/12
to
Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
China Is Mass Producing 'Zombie Companies' And They're
Eating Away At The Economy [CHARTS]
By Matthew Boesler
Eating Away At The Economy [CHARTS]
By Matthew Boesler
Business Insider
Tuesday, August 21, 2012
http://www.businessinsider.com/bofa-china-zombie-companies-hitting-chinese-economy-2012-8
Tuesday, August 21, 2012
ltl...@hotmail.com
Aug 22, 2012, 8:25:06 PM8/22/12
to
In what way China's growth is a manufacgured lie?
What vast forturnes had been put into building what factories that
would never sell enough products...?
rst0
Aug 22, 2012, 9:17:38 PM8/22/12
to
On Aug 21, 10:14 pm, Nickname unavailable
I repeat, it is all Western wishful thinking.
rst0
Aug 22, 2012, 9:17:53 PM8/22/12
to
rst0
Aug 22, 2012, 9:33:56 PM8/22/12
to
On Aug 21, 10:11 pm, Nickname unavailable
Yes. You want "cheap good usable stuff". China provided them for
you.
> the western workers wages have been destroyed by the chinese
> communist party,
Come on, face reality. Western workers wages were destroyed by self-
greed. You want more of everything, more money, more benefits, more
time-off for enjoyment, more say in running of the company, bigger
offices,...
> and lots of willing parasites and supporters of the
> chinese communist party,
No, lots of company CEOs wanted more money, more company stocks,
more...
> in the boardrooms of western corporations.
> china barely has the capability to consume about 1/3rd of
> what they make.
They make stuffs to satisfy your needs, your demands, your wants,...
Aren't they great? catering to your every need, desires,...?
> in the west, its well over 2/3rds. so i have been waiting for
> the inevitable slowdown, and its going to hit them hard.
> no safety net means lots of hungry bellies.
People everywhere needs the stuffs. If you won't buy them, they will
sell them to people in Africa, in South America, in the Middle
East,...
> as usual, milton friedman was wrong.
Well, he made a name for himself. He must know something.
you.
> the western workers wages have been destroyed by the chinese
> communist party,
greed. You want more of everything, more money, more benefits, more
time-off for enjoyment, more say in running of the company, bigger
offices,...
> and lots of willing parasites and supporters of the
> chinese communist party,
more...
> in the boardrooms of western corporations.
> china barely has the capability to consume about 1/3rd of
> what they make.
Aren't they great? catering to your every need, desires,...?
> in the west, its well over 2/3rds. so i have been waiting for
> the inevitable slowdown, and its going to hit them hard.
> no safety net means lots of hungry bellies.
sell them to people in Africa, in South America, in the Middle
East,...
> as usual, milton friedman was wrong.
rst0
Aug 22, 2012, 9:51:59 PM8/22/12
to
On Aug 22, 3:26 pm, "Mr.B1ack" <nowh...@nada.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 22:11:48 -0700, Nickname unavailable wrote:
> > all well said. china has been a mirage. its not a economic super
> > power, and i laugh every time i hear someone from the conservative
> > legacy media, describe china as the second largest economy in the world.
> > the chinese economy is built on the demand of the western worker. the
> > western workers wages have been destroyed by the chinese communist
> > party, and lots of willing parasites and supporters of the chinese
> > communist party, in the boardrooms of western corporations.
>
> And their pet banks and politicians. Hell, last I heard,
> the govt perks for offshoring are still in place.
>
> China HAS made a LOT of money ... but, as you said,
> it hasn't been used to create a strong, safe, economic
> foundation for the country.
Now, this is where I totally disagree with you. Before the 1980s,
> On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 22:11:48 -0700, Nickname unavailable wrote:
> > all well said. china has been a mirage. its not a economic super
> > power, and i laugh every time i hear someone from the conservative
> > legacy media, describe china as the second largest economy in the world.
> > the chinese economy is built on the demand of the western worker. the
> > western workers wages have been destroyed by the chinese communist
> > party, and lots of willing parasites and supporters of the chinese
> > communist party, in the boardrooms of western corporations.
>
> And their pet banks and politicians. Hell, last I heard,
> the govt perks for offshoring are still in place.
>
> China HAS made a LOT of money ... but, as you said,
> it hasn't been used to create a strong, safe, economic
> foundation for the country.
China had no or little manufacturing capabilities at all, no
capabilities to design, develop, test and manufacture fighter planes.
Today, China has a fleet of home-made fighter planes, modern navy,
submarines, missiles, ICBM,...
For the last 30 years, China has claimed out of a mud-pit the Western
Powers dug for China. China has the trained personnel, the
technological capabilities to compete with the best in the world.
Today, China will not go away. China IS a force to reckon with.
> They are desperately at
> the mercy of their exports - and have built in a way
> that absolutely *depends* on high or increasing
> export sales.
economy. This itself will keep China busy for a decade.
Nickname unavailable
Aug 22, 2012, 8:32:56 PM8/22/12
to
On Aug 22, 5:26 pm, "Mr.B1ack" <nowh...@nada.net> wrote:
>
> > all well said. china has been a mirage. its not a economic super
> > power, and i laugh every time i hear someone from the conservative
> > legacy media, describe china as the second largest economy in the world.
> > the chinese economy is built on the demand of the western worker. the
> > western workers wages have been destroyed by the chinese communist
> > party, and lots of willing parasites and supporters of the chinese
> > communist party, in the boardrooms of western corporations.
>
> And their pet banks and politicians. Hell, last I heard,
> the govt perks for offshoring are still in place.
>
yep.
>
> > all well said. china has been a mirage. its not a economic super
> > power, and i laugh every time i hear someone from the conservative
> > legacy media, describe china as the second largest economy in the world.
> > the chinese economy is built on the demand of the western worker. the
> > western workers wages have been destroyed by the chinese communist
> > party, and lots of willing parasites and supporters of the chinese
> > communist party, in the boardrooms of western corporations.
>
> And their pet banks and politicians. Hell, last I heard,
> the govt perks for offshoring are still in place.
>
> China HAS made a LOT of money ... but, as you said,
> it hasn't been used to create a strong, safe, economic
> foundation for the country. They are desperately at
> the mercy of their exports - and have built in a way
> that absolutely *depends* on high or increasing
> export sales.
>
becomes apparent that china can no longer warehouse all those
commodities, watch out below:)))
> But now that they've destroyed too many western
> businesses, well, there went the customer base.
> Exports are rapidly decreasing and growth will
> likely soon cease alltogether. I don't think they
> can survive even a no-growth situation, much less
> any decline below previous peaks. Their building
> frenzy left them with no *reserves* to speak of,
> no Plan-B, no safety nets, no silverware to
> pawn - just bills coming due.
>
> They also foolishly lent terabucks to the US and
> others to keep their badly-managed faux-economies
> afloat. If they'd required sensible reforms as a
> condition that would have been something else, but
> they didn't. As is, they're basically giving us money
> to buy their products ... which can be made to look
> good on paper for awhile - but not for long. It's a
> losing game.
>
dollars?
> I think at least SOME of the offshoring was 'collateral'
> for the loans, in disguise. Alas all that really did
> was put even MORE of their customers on the soup line.
>
> > china barely has the capability to consume about 1/3rd of what they
> > make. in the west, its well over 2/3rds. so i have been waiting for the
> > inevitable slowdown, and its going to hit them hard. no safety net means
> > lots of hungry bellies. as usual, milton friedman was wrong.
>
> Combine the usual human failings of greed, shortsightedness
> and blind zeal with an inexperience with modern capitalism.
> What you get is an extinction-level economic apocalypse in
> the making.
>
> Unfortunately this one involves over a billion people,
> a large military with nukes and ambitious generals and
> lots of other peoples investments. Look at how much
> damage tiny little Greece did when IT went broke and
> took all those investments down with it. Almost every
> manufacturing and tech biz in the world now relies on
> Chinese workers and factories for part of all of their
> products... so what happens if those suddenly cease
> to exist ? What happens to the western faux-economies
> if China can't lend 'em any more money ?
>
> Seems as if the world built its fiscal metropolis right
> on top of a major fiscal fault zone ... and the little
> tremors are getting larger and more frequent ....
lesson has to be learned all over again.
ltl...@hotmail.com
Aug 23, 2012, 12:00:42 AM8/23/12
to
On Aug 22, 7:26 pm, use...@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr.
> http://www.businessinsider.com/bofa-china-zombie-companies-hitting-ch...
This is why one has to look the long term. Niall Ferguson gets it
right. China is a nation gaining ground.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XmndgFm67a8/UDJ9pGOekaI/AAAAAAAAAaw/-cIROsApnrU/s400/ChinaEconomy.png
>
> Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
> Om Shanti
Will China's economy will go up and down? Of course it will.
> Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
> Om Shanti
This is why one has to look the long term. Niall Ferguson gets it
right. China is a nation gaining ground.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-XmndgFm67a8/UDJ9pGOekaI/AAAAAAAAAaw/-cIROsApnrU/s400/ChinaEconomy.png
ltl...@hotmail.com
Aug 23, 2012, 12:03:33 AM8/23/12
to
>
> Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
> Om Shanti
> Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
> Om Shanti
Nickname unavailable
Aug 23, 2012, 12:14:27 AM8/23/12
to
off of communist slave and sweatshop labor, plus many parasites in the
west, live off of the commodity consumption of china. so many western
parasites hope the feast will last for ever. but have you ever known a
mosquito or wood tick that knows when to stop gorging itself? none
that i know of, and they gorge themselves till death.
these same parasites, coupled with the chinese communist party, have
destroyed the wages of the western worker. its why the west is in such
dire straights. and parasites either do not know, or care till the
feast ends abruptly.
you simply cannot understand that the consumption of goods and
services is wage driven. its why china has such pitiful internal
demand, and why demand is falling in the west. keynes proved it
decades ago. no conservative has ever refuted it, or found a way
around it.
you are simply going down that same road. you will either find out,
or you will melt into chaos.
Nickname unavailable
Aug 23, 2012, 12:27:08 AM8/23/12
to
the west, but a "REAL waste in china. it was your chance to build
internal demand, not to enrich a few. instead a few have been
enriched, to the detriment of the many. it might be a one time shot at
it for you. you should have gone the new deal route, like what america
did in 1933.
> > the western workers wages have been destroyed by the chinese
> > communist party,
>
> Come on, face reality. Western workers wages were destroyed by self-
> greed. You want more of everything, more money, more benefits, more
> time-off for enjoyment, more say in running of the company, bigger
> offices,...
>
trillions of dollars of cheap stuff to the west, is because of what
you just disparaged. you do know that parasites eventually despise
their hosts don't you?
if you want a civil society, with strong internal demand, you will no
longer disparage the gift horse.
> > and lots of willing parasites and supporters of the
> > chinese communist party,
>
> No, lots of company CEOs wanted more money, more company stocks,
> more...
>
are the wage earners. demand for goods and services is wage driven.
refute it if you can:)
> > in the boardrooms of western corporations.
> > china barely has the capability to consume about 1/3rd of
> > what they make.
>
> They make stuffs to satisfy your needs, your demands, your wants,...
> Aren't they great? catering to your every need, desires,...?
>
your country from within, drop the freidman globalist crap. create
your own strong internal demand. you will soar. and when you soar, you
can look your nose down on the non-productive, western parasites, and
the idiot conservative politicians that they control.
> > in the west, its well over 2/3rds. so i have been waiting for
> > the inevitable slowdown, and its going to hit them hard.
> > no safety net means lots of hungry bellies.
>
> People everywhere needs the stuffs. If you won't buy them, they will
> sell them to people in Africa, in South America, in the Middle
> East,...
>
driven. no matter how many countries you deluge with cheap stuff, in
the end, demand for goods and services is wage driven. destroy the
wages of the host country, you will find yourself in the same
situation. drop the friedman globalist crap, build your own strong
internal demand. create a strong social safety net, and consumption
will soar.
> > as usual, milton friedman was wrong.
>
> Well, he made a name for himself. He must know something.
>
turned to crap.
> I repeat, it is all Western wishful thinking.
down on what does not work. its the conservative way.
Nickname unavailable
Aug 23, 2012, 12:29:31 AM8/23/12
to
ferguson has been totally discredited in america. krugman stomped him
into the ground. you are embracing the conservative nutcases at the
austrian school of economics. they are wrong almost all of the time.
the austrian school is considered crank science.
rst0
Aug 23, 2012, 12:24:18 AM8/23/12
to
On Aug 22, 9:14 pm, Nickname unavailable
top 10 richest in the world. And Walmart continues to dominate the
consumer product category. And you know Walmart will not go away any
time.
<video61%tcq....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> On Aug 22, 8:17 pm, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I repeat, it is all Western wishful thinking.
>
> its not western wishful thinking. many parasites in the west, live
> off of communist slave and sweatshop labor, plus many parasites in the
> west, live off of the commodity consumption of china. so many western
> parasites hope the feast will last for ever. but have you ever known a
> mosquito or wood tick that knows when to stop gorging itself? none
> that i know of, and they gorge themselves till death.
The Walton families are doing very well. 5 Walton families are in the
> On Aug 22, 8:17 pm, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I repeat, it is all Western wishful thinking.
>
> its not western wishful thinking. many parasites in the west, live
> off of communist slave and sweatshop labor, plus many parasites in the
> west, live off of the commodity consumption of china. so many western
> parasites hope the feast will last for ever. but have you ever known a
> mosquito or wood tick that knows when to stop gorging itself? none
> that i know of, and they gorge themselves till death.
top 10 richest in the world. And Walmart continues to dominate the
consumer product category. And you know Walmart will not go away any
time.
ltl...@hotmail.com
Aug 23, 2012, 12:59:40 AM8/23/12
to
but all common people. According to Krugman, all those who refuse to
spend and create the liquidity trap are just morons. Are they?
In reality, we don't really know whether the recession has totally
cleansed the system. If it did, we are then at the bottom of the
cycle. And Krugman will be correct. If not, the common people who
refuse to spend and the Austrian school are correct to be cautious? I
cannot tell the future and I certainly cannot call the top nor the
bottom of the economic cycle with any kind of certainty.. Can you? Can
Krugman?
rst0
Aug 23, 2012, 1:17:11 AM8/23/12
to
On Aug 22, 9:27 pm, Nickname unavailable
> what a waste all of that cheap stuff was,
What you call "waste" China earned a lot of money with.
> a waste in the west,
Walmart is all over the world, and the "Superstores" are huge.
The Waltons are the world's riches people.
> but a "REAL waste in china.
Well, the Chinese people are happily running all the way to the bank.
> it was your chance to build internal demand,
Most Chinese people don't use knives, forks, plates,...
> not to enrich a few.
But the workers are also paid for their works. Otherwise, who would
want to work for them?
> instead a few have been enriched,
A lot of Chinese have been brought into the middle-class. Just look
at all the cars in China today. Traffics in China are just as bad as
in the U.S.
> to the detriment of the many.
Modernization and progress go hand and hand. It will lead to more
progress in green technologies. China is a leader in wind and solar
technologies.
> it might be a one time shot at
> it for you. you should have gone the new deal route, like
> what america did in 1933.
Yes, today, China is going through a period where the U.S. had been in
the early 1900s.
>
> > Come on, face reality. Western workers wages were destroyed by self-
> > greed. You want more of everything, more money, more benefits, more
> > time-off for enjoyment, more say in running of the company, bigger
> > offices,...
>
> spoken out of pure ignorance.
Come on, face reality. I went through this process. I wanted more,
more money, more company stocks, more time-off, more office space,
more.., more..,...
> the reason why you were able to export
> trillions of dollars of cheap stuff to the west, is because of what
> you just disparaged. you do know that parasites eventually despise
> their hosts don't you?
You're wrong. As long as you are buying, and we're manufacturing,
everything will be hunky-dory.
> if you want a civil society, with strong internal demand,
> you will no longer disparage the gift horse.
Lip service is cheap. You keep buying. We'll keep smiling.
>
> > No, lots of company CEOs wanted more money, more company stocks,
> > more...
>
> yes, the non-productive are parasites. the real producers of
> wealth, are the wage earners. demand for goods and services is
> wage driven. refute it if you can:)
I took "econ 101" some 50 years ago.
> > They make stuffs to satisfy your needs, your demands, your wants,...
> > Aren't they great? catering to your every need, desires,...?
>
> nope. you are speaking as a parasite, hoping to entice a host.
> build your country from within,
China has built itself from within. Today, China has the capabilities
to compete with any country in the world.
> drop the freidman globalist crap. create
> your own strong internal demand.
Chinese people don't use the stuffs especially made for you. They do
it the "opposite ways".
> you will soar. and when you soar, you
Yes, China is self-sufficient, independent, technically capable,...
> can look your nose down on the non-productive, western
> parasites, and the idiot conservative politicians that they
> control.
Well, you're complaining, and they are laughing. What do you think?
> > People everywhere needs the stuffs. If you won't buy them, they will
> > sell them to people in Africa, in South America, in the Middle
> > East,...
>
> look inwards. what you need to understand is, internal
> demand is wage driven.
We have gone through this before. They can't use the stuffs
especially made for you. They have their own stuffs.
> no matter how many countries you deluge with cheap stuff, in
> the end, demand for goods and services is wage driven. destroy the
> wages of the host country, you will find yourself in the same
> situation. drop the friedman globalist crap, build your own strong
> internal demand. create a strong social safety net, and consumption
> will soar.
Well, like you said. You people use their cheap craps. They can't
use them.
>
>
> > Well, he made a name for himself. He must know something.
>
> he was a creation of wealthy parasites. every country he touched, has
> turned to crap.
>
> > I repeat, it is all Western wishful thinking.
>
> good for you. stay the course, when it does not work,
> simply double down on what does not work. its the
> conservative way.
You know Chinese people easily see the next demand item before you
know it is in demand.
<video61%tcq....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> On Aug 22, 8:33 pm, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Yes. You want "cheap good usable stuff". China provided
> > them for you.
>
> no i did not.
Then you are the exception. Most Americans bought their products.
> On Aug 22, 8:33 pm, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Yes. You want "cheap good usable stuff". China provided
> > them for you.
>
> no i did not.
> what a waste all of that cheap stuff was,
> a waste in the west,
The Waltons are the world's riches people.
> but a "REAL waste in china.
> it was your chance to build internal demand,
> not to enrich a few.
want to work for them?
> instead a few have been enriched,
at all the cars in China today. Traffics in China are just as bad as
in the U.S.
> to the detriment of the many.
progress in green technologies. China is a leader in wind and solar
technologies.
> it might be a one time shot at
> it for you. you should have gone the new deal route, like
> what america did in 1933.
the early 1900s.
>
> > Come on, face reality. Western workers wages were destroyed by self-
> > greed. You want more of everything, more money, more benefits, more
> > time-off for enjoyment, more say in running of the company, bigger
> > offices,...
>
> spoken out of pure ignorance.
more money, more company stocks, more time-off, more office space,
more.., more..,...
> the reason why you were able to export
> trillions of dollars of cheap stuff to the west, is because of what
> you just disparaged. you do know that parasites eventually despise
> their hosts don't you?
everything will be hunky-dory.
> if you want a civil society, with strong internal demand,
> you will no longer disparage the gift horse.
>
> > No, lots of company CEOs wanted more money, more company stocks,
> > more...
>
> yes, the non-productive are parasites. the real producers of
> wealth, are the wage earners. demand for goods and services is
> wage driven. refute it if you can:)
> > They make stuffs to satisfy your needs, your demands, your wants,...
> > Aren't they great? catering to your every need, desires,...?
>
> nope. you are speaking as a parasite, hoping to entice a host.
> build your country from within,
to compete with any country in the world.
> drop the freidman globalist crap. create
> your own strong internal demand.
it the "opposite ways".
> you will soar. and when you soar, you
> can look your nose down on the non-productive, western
> parasites, and the idiot conservative politicians that they
> control.
> > People everywhere needs the stuffs. If you won't buy them, they will
> > sell them to people in Africa, in South America, in the Middle
> > East,...
>
> look inwards. what you need to understand is, internal
> demand is wage driven.
especially made for you. They have their own stuffs.
> no matter how many countries you deluge with cheap stuff, in
> the end, demand for goods and services is wage driven. destroy the
> wages of the host country, you will find yourself in the same
> situation. drop the friedman globalist crap, build your own strong
> internal demand. create a strong social safety net, and consumption
> will soar.
use them.
>
>
> > Well, he made a name for himself. He must know something.
>
> he was a creation of wealthy parasites. every country he touched, has
> turned to crap.
>
> > I repeat, it is all Western wishful thinking.
>
> good for you. stay the course, when it does not work,
> simply double down on what does not work. its the
> conservative way.
know it is in demand.
and/or www.mantra.com/jai
Aug 23, 2012, 1:17:24 AM8/23/12
to
The government is keeping zombie companies on life
support
As the Chinese economy slows, the weakest businesses are
struggling to keep their doors open. When they fail to
repay the loans they have taken out from the Chinese
banking system, the companies should go bankrupt and the
banks should have to write off the loans and take a loss.
Wu explains that the Chinese government is not allowing
this process – the flushing out of bad debts – to occur.
Instead, it has forced banks to continue lending money to
failed businesses far past the point where they
demonstrate any ability to repay the debts.
In other words, Chinese banks, at the behest of the
government, are pumping money into dying companies with
"no commercial viability," according to Wu.
End of excerpt.
Mr.B1ack
Aug 23, 2012, 1:20:54 AM8/23/12
to
On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 18:51:59 -0700, rst0 wrote:
> On Aug 22, 3:26 pm, "Mr.B1ack" <nowh...@nada.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 22:11:48 -0700, Nickname unavailable wrote:
>> > all well said. china has been a mirage. its not a economic super
>> > power, and i laugh every time i hear someone from the conservative
>> > legacy media, describe china as the second largest economy in the
>> > world. the chinese economy is built on the demand of the western
>> > worker. the western workers wages have been destroyed by the chinese
>> > communist party, and lots of willing parasites and supporters of the
>> > chinese communist party, in the boardrooms of western corporations.
>>
>> And their pet banks and politicians. Hell, last I heard, the govt
>> perks for offshoring are still in place.
>>
>> China HAS made a LOT of money ... but, as you said, it hasn't been
>> used to create a strong, safe, economic foundation for the
>> country.
>
> Now, this is where I totally disagree with you. Before the 1980s, China
> had no or little manufacturing capabilities at all, no capabilities to
> design, develop, test and manufacture fighter planes. Today, China has a
> fleet of home-made fighter planes, modern navy, submarines, missiles,
> ICBM,...
>
> For the last 30 years, China has claimed out of a mud-pit the Western
> Powers dug for China. China has the trained personnel, the
> technological capabilities to compete with the best in the world.
You don't understand ... lots and lots of factories and such
> On Aug 22, 3:26 pm, "Mr.B1ack" <nowh...@nada.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 22:11:48 -0700, Nickname unavailable wrote:
>> > all well said. china has been a mirage. its not a economic super
>> > power, and i laugh every time i hear someone from the conservative
>> > legacy media, describe china as the second largest economy in the
>> > world. the chinese economy is built on the demand of the western
>> > worker. the western workers wages have been destroyed by the chinese
>> > communist party, and lots of willing parasites and supporters of the
>> > chinese communist party, in the boardrooms of western corporations.
>>
>> And their pet banks and politicians. Hell, last I heard, the govt
>> perks for offshoring are still in place.
>>
>> China HAS made a LOT of money ... but, as you said, it hasn't been
>> used to create a strong, safe, economic foundation for the
>> country.
>
> Now, this is where I totally disagree with you. Before the 1980s, China
> had no or little manufacturing capabilities at all, no capabilities to
> design, develop, test and manufacture fighter planes. Today, China has a
> fleet of home-made fighter planes, modern navy, submarines, missiles,
> ICBM,...
>
> For the last 30 years, China has claimed out of a mud-pit the Western
> Powers dug for China. China has the trained personnel, the
> technological capabilities to compete with the best in the world.
do NOT make for a strong nation. Strength lies is *resalence*
more than mere profit potential. Every yaun China has was
spent, and then some, on just building more factories and
infrastructure. There's no real reserve fund to cope with
the proverbial rainy day. By comparison, the USA stashed-
away quite a lot. We've funded things like the FDIC and
unemployment fund. When things turned negative we had a
good reserve to get us through it (MAY not have been enough
but at least we TRIED).
> Today, China will not go away.
>China IS a force to reckon with.
rst0
Aug 23, 2012, 1:29:33 AM8/23/12
to
>
> > Today, China will not go away.
>
> But it could become irrelevant once again ...
>
> >China IS a force to reckon with.
>
> And its worst enemy is ITSELF.
Chinese people themselves.
Nickname unavailable
Aug 24, 2012, 12:42:49 AM8/24/12
to
On Aug 23, 12:17 am, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 22, 9:27 pm, Nickname unavailable
>
> <video61%tcq....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 22, 8:33 pm, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Yes. You want "cheap good usable stuff". China provided
> > > them for you.
>
> > no i did not.
>
> Then you are the exception. Most Americans bought their products.
>
you mean your products. when the chinese make it, and no one else,
> On Aug 22, 9:27 pm, Nickname unavailable
>
> <video61%tcq....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 22, 8:33 pm, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Yes. You want "cheap good usable stuff". China provided
> > > them for you.
>
> > no i did not.
>
> Then you are the exception. Most Americans bought their products.
>
then we are forced into buying them. that does not mean we like it.
but those days are ending for you, you are just to arrogant to know
it.
> > what a waste all of that cheap stuff was,
>
> What you call "waste" China earned a lot of money with.
>
and their cronies got the lions share. the rest got little or nothing.
> > a waste in the west,
>
> Walmart is all over the world, and the "Superstores" are huge.
> The Waltons are the world's riches people.
>
> > but a "REAL waste in china.
>
> Well, the Chinese people are happily running all the way to the bank.
>
to commit suicide.
> > it was your chance to build internal demand,
>
> Most Chinese people don't use knives, forks, plates,...
>
know. you are a elite in the chinese communist party, or a hired
shill. only someone like that would ignore the plight of hundreds of
millions of poor desperate people.
> > not to enrich a few.
>
> But the workers are also paid for their works. Otherwise, who would
> want to work for them?
>
would see lots of happy faces at foxcon.
> > instead a few have been enriched,
>
> A lot of Chinese have been brought into the middle-class. Just look
> at all the cars in China today. Traffics in China are just as bad as
> in the U.S.
>
that the chinese communist party, has bought lots of fleets of cars,
then mothballed them.
> > to the detriment of the many.
>
> Modernization and progress go hand and hand. It will lead to more
> progress in green technologies. China is a leader in wind and solar
> technologies.
>
the point where internal demand becomes modern.
> > it might be a one time shot at
> > it for you. you should have gone the new deal route, like
> > what america did in 1933.
>
> Yes, today, China is going through a period where the U.S. had been in
> the early 1900s.
>
>
>
> > > Come on, face reality. Western workers wages were destroyed by self-
> > > greed. You want more of everything, more money, more benefits, more
> > > time-off for enjoyment, more say in running of the company, bigger
> > > offices,...
>
> > spoken out of pure ignorance.
>
> Come on, face reality. I went through this process. I wanted more,
> more money, more company stocks, more time-off, more office space,
> more.., more..,...
>
> > the reason why you were able to export
> > trillions of dollars of cheap stuff to the west, is because of what
> > you just disparaged. you do know that parasites eventually despise
> > their hosts don't you?
>
> You're wrong. As long as you are buying, and we're manufacturing,
> everything will be hunky-dory.
>
who will quash anything negative on the usenet said about how the
chinese communist party is running china.
> > if you want a civil society, with strong internal demand,
> > you will no longer disparage the gift horse.
>
> Lip service is cheap. You keep buying. We'll keep smiling.
>
>
>
> > > No, lots of company CEOs wanted more money, more company stocks,
> > > more...
>
> > yes, the non-productive are parasites. the real producers of
> > wealth, are the wage earners. demand for goods and services is
> > wage driven. refute it if you can:)
>
> I took "econ 101" some 50 years ago.
>
their peril. and lots of older people forget, either one could be you.
> > > They make stuffs to satisfy your needs, your demands, your wants,...
> > > Aren't they great? catering to your every need, desires,...?
>
> > nope. you are speaking as a parasite, hoping to entice a host.
> > build your country from within,
>
> China has built itself from within. Today, China has the capabilities
> to compete with any country in the world.
>
not be so feverish on exports.
> > drop the freidman globalist crap. create
> > your own strong internal demand.
>
> Chinese people don't use the stuffs especially made for you. They do
> it the "opposite ways".
>
> > you will soar. and when you soar, you
>
> Yes, China is self-sufficient, independent, technically capable,...
>
and have communist sympathizers in western boardrooms that turn over
their property to you, so that a few parasitical sociopaths can get
richer, you will be going forward, but i think that is changing.
> > can look your nose down on the non-productive, western
> > parasites, and the idiot conservative politicians that they
> > control.
>
> Well, you're complaining, and they are laughing. What do you think?
>
> > > People everywhere needs the stuffs. If you won't buy them, they will
> > > sell them to people in Africa, in South America, in the Middle
> > > East,...
>
> > look inwards. what you need to understand is, internal
> > demand is wage driven.
>
> We have gone through this before. They can't use the stuffs
> especially made for you. They have their own stuffs.
>
> > no matter how many countries you deluge with cheap stuff, in
> > the end, demand for goods and services is wage driven. destroy the
> > wages of the host country, you will find yourself in the same
> > situation. drop the friedman globalist crap, build your own strong
> > internal demand. create a strong social safety net, and consumption
> > will soar.
>
> Well, like you said. You people use their cheap craps. They can't
> use them.
>
>
>
> > > Well, he made a name for himself. He must know something.
>
> > he was a creation of wealthy parasites. every country he touched, has
> > turned to crap.
>
> > > I repeat, it is all Western wishful thinking.
>
> > good for you. stay the course, when it does not work,
> > simply double down on what does not work. its the
> > conservative way.
>
> You know Chinese people easily see the next demand item before you
> know it is in demand.
bare hands. and make it here:)
Nickname unavailable
Aug 24, 2012, 12:44:49 AM8/24/12
to
that $5.00 a day. and they have no real social safety nets. hardly the
stuff of a economic super power.
rst0
Aug 24, 2012, 1:46:25 AM8/24/12
to
On Aug 23, 9:42 pm, Nickname unavailable
commercial usage.
> when the chinese make it, and no one else,
> then we are forced into buying them.
Come on, stupid idiot, admit it. No one forces you to buy their
products. You bought them because the products are good values for
the price.
> that does not mean we like it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you like it. Otherwise, you wouldn't buy them.
Walmart would go out of business. Instead, Walmart gets bigger and
bigger every year.
> but those days are ending for you, you are just to arrogant to know
> it.
It seems to me the reverse is true. The U.S. is too arrogant to
realize the Afghans are beating the shit out of us. And, like an
idiot we are, we let them kill us one by one with the weapons we give
them. We won't get out of Afghanistan until the casualties are sky
high.
> > What you call "waste" China earned a lot of money with.
>
> nope, that is more freidman crap talk. the chinese communist
> party, and their cronies got the lions share.
It's a 5,000 year habit which has become part of life until a little
minor incident happened which exploded on their face. Then it's the
end for them.
> the rest got little or nothing.
I think about 600 - 800 million Chinese got quite a bit. There are
millions of automobiles in China. Millions of Chinese are traveling
overseas to foreign countries for vacations, and sending their sons
and daughters to foreign universities.
>
>
> > Walmart is all over the world, and the "Superstores" are huge.
> > The Waltons are the world's riches people.
>
> as i said, to the detriment of the many.
Hey!!! be thankful. Thousands of people got jobs working for
Walmart. Instead of repairing old stuffs, it's buy, use and throw
away and buy new ones.
>
>
> > Well, the Chinese people are happily running all the way to the bank.
>
> nope, very few are, the party and their cronies, the rest
> are trying to commit suicide.
You are wrong. Millions of automobiles in China tell a different
story. Millions of Chinese tourists in foreign countries tell a
different story.
>
>
> > Most Chinese people don't use knives, forks, plates,...
>
> gotcha ya, i have spoken with you before, and i have
> wondered, now i know. you are a elite in the chinese
> communist party,
Chinese Communist Party in the U.S.A.? Impossible!!!!
I'm a registered Republican for many many years.
> or a hired shill.
Nope, I'm retired.
> only someone like that would ignore the plight of hundreds of
> millions of poor desperate people.
Oh!! Yeah!! I know. I spent many many hours doing volunteer work with
a church group bagging and handing out food to the poor.
>
>
> > But the workers are also paid for their works. Otherwise,
> > who would want to work for them?
>
> many times they are not, many times its chimp change,
> other wise we would see lots of happy faces at foxcon.
China currently is going through the same phases as the U.S. during
the early 1900s.
>
>
> > A lot of Chinese have been brought into the middle-class.
> > Just look at all the cars in China today. Traffics in
> > China are just as bad as in the U.S.
>
> there are a few who can afford one. but most cannot.
Millions of cars on the road in China don't lie, stupid.
Many can afford them.
> we see today
> that the chinese communist party, has bought lots of fleets of
> cars, then mothballed them.
China makes automobiles, too. There is no need to mothballed them.
>
>
> > Modernization and progress go hand and hand. It will lead
> > to more progress in green technologies. China is a leader
> > in wind and solar technologies.
>
> for the moment, but that does not mean that wages will
> increase to the point where internal demand becomes modern.
China is modernizing their country very very fast.
>
> > Yes, today, China is going through a period where the U.S.
> > had been in the early 1900s.
>
> not really. we were not saddled with a dictatorship.
What did you call George Worthless Bush if he wasn't a dictator?
He wanted a war with Iraq. He got a war with Iraq.
China is NOT a dictatorship. No Chinese leader can serve longer than
10 years in office.
> > Come on, face reality. I went through this process. I wanted more,
> > more money, more company stocks, more time-off, more office space,
> > more.., more..,...
>
> that is conservative greed, not modern demand.
No, that is American way of life. That was what make America the way
it is today. That was why the housing market went bust.
>
> > You're wrong. As long as you are buying, and we're manufacturing,
> > everything will be hunky-dory.
>
> as i said, parasites never learn. and i gotcha, yes,
> you are the one who will quash anything negative on the
> usenet said about how the chinese communist party is
> running china.
How they run China is none of my business.
> > Lip service is cheap. You keep buying. We'll keep smiling.
>
> your face is turning into a frown right now, so watch out.
>
>
>
> > China has built itself from within. Today, China has the capabilities
> > to compete with any country in the world.
>
> not really. you have to rely heavily on others. otherwise you would
> not be so feverish on exports.
That's what business is all about, isn't it? Supply and demand?
You want something, and China supply you with something.
>
> > Chinese people don't use the stuffs especially made for you. They do
> > it the "opposite ways".
>
> yea sure, they do not buy cars, electronics, or cloths.
>
>
<video61%tcq....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> On Aug 23, 12:17 am, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 22, 9:27 pm, Nickname unavailable
>
> > <video61%tcq....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> > Then you are the exception. Most Americans bought their products.
>
> you mean your products.
Sorry man, the products I designed/developed were NOT for general
> On Aug 23, 12:17 am, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 22, 9:27 pm, Nickname unavailable
>
> > <video61%tcq....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> > Then you are the exception. Most Americans bought their products.
>
> you mean your products.
commercial usage.
> when the chinese make it, and no one else,
> then we are forced into buying them.
products. You bought them because the products are good values for
the price.
> that does not mean we like it.
Walmart would go out of business. Instead, Walmart gets bigger and
bigger every year.
> but those days are ending for you, you are just to arrogant to know
> it.
realize the Afghans are beating the shit out of us. And, like an
idiot we are, we let them kill us one by one with the weapons we give
them. We won't get out of Afghanistan until the casualties are sky
high.
> > What you call "waste" China earned a lot of money with.
>
> nope, that is more freidman crap talk. the chinese communist
> party, and their cronies got the lions share.
minor incident happened which exploded on their face. Then it's the
end for them.
> the rest got little or nothing.
millions of automobiles in China. Millions of Chinese are traveling
overseas to foreign countries for vacations, and sending their sons
and daughters to foreign universities.
>
>
> > Walmart is all over the world, and the "Superstores" are huge.
> > The Waltons are the world's riches people.
>
> as i said, to the detriment of the many.
Walmart. Instead of repairing old stuffs, it's buy, use and throw
away and buy new ones.
>
>
> > Well, the Chinese people are happily running all the way to the bank.
>
> nope, very few are, the party and their cronies, the rest
> are trying to commit suicide.
story. Millions of Chinese tourists in foreign countries tell a
different story.
>
>
> > Most Chinese people don't use knives, forks, plates,...
>
> gotcha ya, i have spoken with you before, and i have
> wondered, now i know. you are a elite in the chinese
> communist party,
I'm a registered Republican for many many years.
> or a hired shill.
Nope, I'm retired.
> only someone like that would ignore the plight of hundreds of
> millions of poor desperate people.
a church group bagging and handing out food to the poor.
>
>
> > But the workers are also paid for their works. Otherwise,
> > who would want to work for them?
>
> many times they are not, many times its chimp change,
> other wise we would see lots of happy faces at foxcon.
the early 1900s.
>
>
> > A lot of Chinese have been brought into the middle-class.
> > Just look at all the cars in China today. Traffics in
> > China are just as bad as in the U.S.
>
> there are a few who can afford one. but most cannot.
Many can afford them.
> we see today
> that the chinese communist party, has bought lots of fleets of
> cars, then mothballed them.
>
>
> > Modernization and progress go hand and hand. It will lead
> > to more progress in green technologies. China is a leader
> > in wind and solar technologies.
>
> for the moment, but that does not mean that wages will
> increase to the point where internal demand becomes modern.
>
> > Yes, today, China is going through a period where the U.S.
> > had been in the early 1900s.
>
> not really. we were not saddled with a dictatorship.
He wanted a war with Iraq. He got a war with Iraq.
China is NOT a dictatorship. No Chinese leader can serve longer than
10 years in office.
> > Come on, face reality. I went through this process. I wanted more,
> > more money, more company stocks, more time-off, more office space,
> > more.., more..,...
>
> that is conservative greed, not modern demand.
it is today. That was why the housing market went bust.
>
> > You're wrong. As long as you are buying, and we're manufacturing,
> > everything will be hunky-dory.
>
> as i said, parasites never learn. and i gotcha, yes,
> you are the one who will quash anything negative on the
> usenet said about how the chinese communist party is
> running china.
> > Lip service is cheap. You keep buying. We'll keep smiling.
>
> your face is turning into a frown right now, so watch out.
>
> > I took "econ 101" some 50 years ago.
>
> lots of elites become isolated from reality, and ignore reality to
> their peril. and lots of older people forget, either one could be you.
That sounds like America alright.
>
> lots of elites become isolated from reality, and ignore reality to
> their peril. and lots of older people forget, either one could be you.
>
>
> > China has built itself from within. Today, China has the capabilities
> > to compete with any country in the world.
>
> not really. you have to rely heavily on others. otherwise you would
> not be so feverish on exports.
You want something, and China supply you with something.
>
> > Chinese people don't use the stuffs especially made for you. They do
> > it the "opposite ways".
>
> yea sure, they do not buy cars, electronics, or cloths.
>
>
> > Yes, China is self-sufficient, independent, technically capable,...
>
> as long as you can sell to the west, and buy commodities from others,
> and have communist sympathizers in western boardrooms that turn over
> their property to you, so that a few parasitical sociopaths can get
> richer, you will be going forward, but i think that is changing.
>
>
>
> as long as you can sell to the west, and buy commodities from others,
> and have communist sympathizers in western boardrooms that turn over
> their property to you, so that a few parasitical sociopaths can get
> richer, you will be going forward, but i think that is changing.
>
>
> > Well, you're complaining, and they are laughing. What do you think?
>
> spoken like a elite.
>
>
> spoken like a elite.
>
> > We have gone through this before. They can't use the stuffs
> > especially made for you. They have their own stuffs.
>
> spoken like a elite.
>
> > especially made for you. They have their own stuffs.
>
> spoken like a elite.
>
> > Well, like you said. You people use their cheap craps. They can't
> > use them.
>
> spoken like a elite.
>
> > use them.
>
> spoken like a elite.
>
Nickname unavailable
Aug 24, 2012, 11:53:51 AM8/24/12
to
On Aug 24, 12:46 am, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Aug 23, 9:42 pm, Nickname unavailable
>
> <video61%tcq....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 23, 12:17 am, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 22, 9:27 pm, Nickname unavailable
>
> > > <video61%tcq....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> > > Then you are the exception. Most Americans bought their products.
>
> > you mean your products.
>
> Sorry man, the products I designed/developed were NOT for general
> commercial usage.
>
who cares. you are the mouth piece of the chinese communist party.
> On Aug 23, 9:42 pm, Nickname unavailable
>
> <video61%tcq....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> > On Aug 23, 12:17 am, rst0 <rst0w...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 22, 9:27 pm, Nickname unavailable
>
> > > <video61%tcq....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> > > Then you are the exception. Most Americans bought their products.
>
> > you mean your products.
>
> Sorry man, the products I designed/developed were NOT for general
> commercial usage.
>
> > when the chinese make it, and no one else,
> > then we are forced into buying them.
>
> Come on, stupid idiot, admit it. No one forces you to buy their
> products. You bought them because the products are good values for
> the price.
>
> > that does not mean we like it.
>
> Yeah, yeah, yeah, you like it. Otherwise, you wouldn't buy them.
> Walmart would go out of business. Instead, Walmart gets bigger and
> bigger every year.
>
> > but those days are ending for you, you are just to arrogant to know
> > it.
>
> It seems to me the reverse is true. The U.S. is too arrogant to
> realize the Afghans are beating the shit out of us. And, like an
> idiot we are, we let them kill us one by one with the weapons we give
> them. We won't get out of Afghanistan until the casualties are sky
> high.
>
sociopaths. its why things are changing, even as we speak. its
unsustainable, and parasites never understand that.
> > > What you call "waste" China earned a lot of money with.
>
> > nope, that is more freidman crap talk. the chinese communist
> > party, and their cronies got the lions share.
>
> It's a 5,000 year habit which has become part of life until a little
> minor incident happened which exploded on their face. Then it's the
> end for them.
>
reliance on the gullibility of others is coming to a end.
> > the rest got little or nothing.
>
> I think about 600 - 800 million Chinese got quite a bit. There are
> millions of automobiles in China. Millions of Chinese are traveling
> overseas to foreign countries for vacations, and sending their sons
> and daughters to foreign universities.
>
>
and these hundreds of millions, far out number the 100 of millions who
sorta can.
>
> > > Walmart is all over the world, and the "Superstores" are huge.
> > > The Waltons are the world's riches people.
>
> > as i said, to the detriment of the many.
>
> Hey!!! be thankful. Thousands of people got jobs working for
> Walmart. Instead of repairing old stuffs, it's buy, use and throw
> away and buy new ones.
>
>
>
> > > Well, the Chinese people are happily running all the way to the bank.
>
> > nope, very few are, the party and their cronies, the rest
> > are trying to commit suicide.
>
> You are wrong. Millions of automobiles in China tell a different
> story. Millions of Chinese tourists in foreign countries tell a
> different story.
>
>
>
> > > Most Chinese people don't use knives, forks, plates,...
>
> > gotcha ya, i have spoken with you before, and i have
> > wondered, now i know. you are a elite in the chinese
> > communist party,
>
> Chinese Communist Party in the U.S.A.? Impossible!!!!
> I'm a registered Republican for many many years.
>
> > or a hired shill.
>
> Nope, I'm retired.
>
> > only someone like that would ignore the plight of hundreds of
> > millions of poor desperate people.
>
> Oh!! Yeah!! I know. I spent many many hours doing volunteer work with
> a church group bagging and handing out food to the poor.
>
>
>
> > > But the workers are also paid for their works. Otherwise,
> > > who would want to work for them?
>
> > many times they are not, many times its chimp change,
> > other wise we would see lots of happy faces at foxcon.
>
> China currently is going through the same phases as the U.S. during
> the early 1900s.
>
>
>
> > > A lot of Chinese have been brought into the middle-class.
> > > Just look at all the cars in China today. Traffics in
> > > China are just as bad as in the U.S.
>
> > there are a few who can afford one. but most cannot.
>
> Millions of cars on the road in China don't lie, stupid.
> Many can afford them.
>
cities, that were built by the chinse communist party, to mask the
true state of china, its a mirage:)
> > we see today
> > that the chinese communist party, has bought lots of fleets of
> > cars, then mothballed them.
>
> China makes automobiles, too. There is no need to mothballed them.
>
>
>
> > > Modernization and progress go hand and hand. It will lead
> > > to more progress in green technologies. China is a leader
> > > in wind and solar technologies.
>
> > for the moment, but that does not mean that wages will
> > increase to the point where internal demand becomes modern.
>
> China is modernizing their country very very fast.
>
>
dictatorship comrade:))))
>
> > > Yes, today, China is going through a period where the U.S.
> > > had been in the early 1900s.
>
> > not really. we were not saddled with a dictatorship.
>
> What did you call George Worthless Bush if he wasn't a dictator?
> He wanted a war with Iraq. He got a war with Iraq.
>
conservative sociopaths. but we have a long history of over coming
conservative fundamentalism.
> China is NOT a dictatorship. No Chinese leader can serve longer than
> 10 years in office.
>
party member, wins, they become the premier
correct:)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
> > > Come on, face reality. I went through this process. I wanted more,
> > > more money, more company stocks, more time-off, more office space,
> > > more.., more..,...
>
> > that is conservative greed, not modern demand.
>
> No, that is American way of life. That was what make America the way
> it is today. That was why the housing market went bust.
>
>
which was opposite of what you said. today under conservatism, we are
sliding. its not the first time, nor will it be the last.
>
> > > You're wrong. As long as you are buying, and we're manufacturing,
> > > everything will be hunky-dory.
>
> > as i said, parasites never learn. and i gotcha, yes,
> > you are the one who will quash anything negative on the
> > usenet said about how the chinese communist party is
> > running china.
>
> How they run China is none of my business.
>
> > > Lip service is cheap. You keep buying. We'll keep smiling.
>
> > your face is turning into a frown right now, so watch out.
>
> > > I took "econ 101" some 50 years ago.
>
> > lots of elites become isolated from reality, and ignore reality to
> > their peril. and lots of older people forget, either one could be you.
>
> That sounds like America alright.
>
>
>
> > > China has built itself from within. Today, China has the capabilities
> > > to compete with any country in the world.
>
> > not really. you have to rely heavily on others. otherwise you would
> > not be so feverish on exports.
>
> That's what business is all about, isn't it? Supply and demand?
> You want something, and China supply you with something.
>
>
>
> > > Chinese people don't use the stuffs especially made for you. They do
> > > it the "opposite ways".
>
> > yea sure, they do not buy cars, electronics, or cloths.
>
> > > Yes, China is self-sufficient, independent, technically capable,...
>
> > as long as you can sell to the west, and buy commodities from others,
> > and have communist sympathizers in western boardrooms that turn over
> > their property to you, so that a few parasitical sociopaths can get
> > richer, you will be going forward, but i think that is changing.
>
> > > Well, you're complaining, and they are laughing. What do you think?
>
> > spoken like a elite.
>
> > > We have gone through this before. They can't use the stuffs
> > > especially made for you. They have their own stuffs.
>
> > spoken like a elite.
>
> > > Well, like you said. You people use their cheap craps. They can't
> > > use them.
>
> > spoken like a elite.
>
> > > You know Chinese people easily see the next demand item before you
> > > know it is in demand.
>
> > snicker. i craft the next thing in my market, with my own brain and
> > bare hands. and make it here:)
Liberal Here
Aug 24, 2012, 2:34:24 PM8/24/12
to
On Tuesday, August 21, 2012 10:55:29 PM UTC-4, rst9 wrote:
Sometimes non-democratic systems work. Why? Because intelligence is the necessary criteria to advance in the political power system. Here in America, a rather intelligent person (Obama) is barely ahead of a nominee who's clearly no smarter than Bush 1/2.
Romney's position as Bain Capital's CEO was merely as a "front" for the far smarter Bain members. Yes, he was paid well. He was paid for his father's reputation.
> On Aug 21, 7:04 pm, "Mr.B1ack" <nowh...@nada.net> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 01:27:13 +0000, Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
>
>
> > On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 01:27:13 +0000, Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
>
> > > China Is Entering A 'Danger Zone' [Charts]
>
> >
>
> > > By Mamta Badkar
>
> > > Business Insider
>
> > > Tuesday, August 21, 2012
>
> >
>
> > > Even as China promises to maintain a "firm grip" on real estate, many
>
> > > are still concerned about a property bubble and hard-landing, in terms
>
> > > of a slowdown and financial crisis.
>
> >
>
> > > At a speech delivered in Sydney, Kiyohiko G. Nishimura, deputy governor
>
> > > of the Bank of Japan said China is now "entering the danger zone" that
>
> > > could lead to a financial crisis.
>
> >
>
>
> >
>
> > > By Mamta Badkar
>
> > > Business Insider
>
> > > Tuesday, August 21, 2012
>
> >
>
> > > Even as China promises to maintain a "firm grip" on real estate, many
>
> > > are still concerned about a property bubble and hard-landing, in terms
>
> > > of a slowdown and financial crisis.
>
> >
>
> > > At a speech delivered in Sydney, Kiyohiko G. Nishimura, deputy governor
>
> > > of the Bank of Japan said China is now "entering the danger zone" that
>
> > > could lead to a financial crisis.
>
> >
>
> For 60 years, the Western Powers have been predicting a downfall/
>
> Jasmine Revolution for China. This year, they still have a 7.6%
>
> growth while Greece, Spain, Italy,... are going bankrupt, and the U.S.
>
> is in debt for 15 trillion dollars. It's all wishful thinking.
Especially since China's goals (short term and long term) aren't a carbon copy repeat of western goals. Those unoccupied cities are for future population migration from the farms into the cities as mechanization and automation of farm work frees labor to move to those cities. Chinese leaders plan for the future.
>
> Jasmine Revolution for China. This year, they still have a 7.6%
>
> growth while Greece, Spain, Italy,... are going bankrupt, and the U.S.
>
> is in debt for 15 trillion dollars. It's all wishful thinking.
Sometimes non-democratic systems work. Why? Because intelligence is the necessary criteria to advance in the political power system. Here in America, a rather intelligent person (Obama) is barely ahead of a nominee who's clearly no smarter than Bush 1/2.
Romney's position as Bain Capital's CEO was merely as a "front" for the far smarter Bain members. Yes, he was paid well. He was paid for his father's reputation.
Liberal Here
Aug 24, 2012, 2:38:31 PM8/24/12
to
On Wednesday, August 22, 2012 1:11:48 AM UTC-4, Nickname unavailable wrote:
Don't be stupid. China is using western consumers to pay for its infrastructure building projects. Once the west is penniless, the infrastructure will be able to support and provide goods and services to the remaining 1 billion poor Chinese. Only China will have the cash to buy the raw materials from foreign sources. And it will be a buyer's market for those raw materials.
> all well said. china has been a mirage. its not a economic super
>
> power, and i laugh every time i hear someone from the conservative
>
> legacy media, describe china as the second largest economy in the
>
> world. the chinese economy is built on the demand of the western
>
> worker. the western workers wages have been destroyed by the chinese
>
> communist party, and lots of willing parasites and supporters of the
>
> chinese communist party, in the boardrooms of western corporations.
>
>
> power, and i laugh every time i hear someone from the conservative
>
> legacy media, describe china as the second largest economy in the
>
> world. the chinese economy is built on the demand of the western
>
> worker. the western workers wages have been destroyed by the chinese
>
> communist party, and lots of willing parasites and supporters of the
>
> chinese communist party, in the boardrooms of western corporations.
>
> china barely has the capability to consume about 1/3rd of what they
>
> make. in the west, its well over 2/3rds. so i have been waiting for
>
>
> the inevitable slowdown, and its going to hit them hard. no safety net
>
> means lots of hungry bellies. as usual, milton friedman was wrong.
> the inevitable slowdown, and its going to hit them hard. no safety net
>
Don't be stupid. China is using western consumers to pay for its infrastructure building projects. Once the west is penniless, the infrastructure will be able to support and provide goods and services to the remaining 1 billion poor Chinese. Only China will have the cash to buy the raw materials from foreign sources. And it will be a buyer's market for those raw materials.
Liberal Here
Aug 24, 2012, 2:42:13 PM8/24/12
to
Liberal Here
Aug 24, 2012, 3:13:24 PM8/24/12
to
But.....I find it funny how you're using liberal ideas like the FDIC and unemployment fund as positives here.
> When things turned negative we had a
>
> good reserve to get us through it (MAY not have been enough
>
> but at least we TRIED).
>
>
>
> > Today, China will not go away.
>
>
>
> But it could become irrelevant once again ...
>
>
>
> >China IS a force to reckon with.
>
>
>
> And its worst enemy is ITSELF.
No need to fight a war if your enemy happily spends itself into irrelevancy buying things from you and enabling you to build the infrastructure needed to support your 1.3+ billion population.
rst0
Aug 24, 2012, 6:37:39 PM8/24/12
to
On Aug 23, 9:44 pm, Nickname unavailable
> and they have no real social safety nets. hardly the
> stuff of a economic super power.
It depends on the company/government policy where he worked. A man
had carbon dioxide poisoning survived but disabled, is currently
receiving lifetime disability pay.
<video61%tcq....@gtempaccount.com> wrote:
> On Aug 23, 12:20 am, "Mr.B1ack" <nowh...@nada.net> wrote:
> > You don't understand ... lots and lots of factories and such
> > do NOT make for a strong nation. Strength lies is *resalence*
> > more than mere profit potential. Every yaun China has was
> > spent, and then some, on just building more factories and
> > infrastructure. There's no real reserve fund to cope with
> > the proverbial rainy day. By comparison, the USA stashed-
> > away quite a lot. We've funded things like the FDIC and
> > unemployment fund. When things turned negative we had a
> > good reserve to get us through it (MAY not have been enough
> > but at least we TRIED).
>
>
> On Aug 23, 12:20 am, "Mr.B1ack" <nowh...@nada.net> wrote:
> > You don't understand ... lots and lots of factories and such
> > do NOT make for a strong nation. Strength lies is *resalence*
> > more than mere profit potential. Every yaun China has was
> > spent, and then some, on just building more factories and
> > infrastructure. There's no real reserve fund to cope with
> > the proverbial rainy day. By comparison, the USA stashed-
> > away quite a lot. We've funded things like the FDIC and
> > unemployment fund. When things turned negative we had a
> > good reserve to get us through it (MAY not have been enough
> > but at least we TRIED).
>
>
> > But it could become irrelevant once again ...
>
>
>
>
> > And its worst enemy is ITSELF.
>
> i have read that at least 800 million or more chinese live on less
> that $5.00 a day.
Hell, I live on less than $5.00 a day in the U.S.
>
> i have read that at least 800 million or more chinese live on less
> that $5.00 a day.
> and they have no real social safety nets. hardly the
> stuff of a economic super power.
had carbon dioxide poisoning survived but disabled, is currently
receiving lifetime disability pay.
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