When The GOP Came For The First Amendement

[Bradley K. Sherman]

|
| Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signs bill banning "picketing
| and protesting" outside a private residence
| ...
<https://www.cbsnews.com/news/protests-roe-v-wade-homes-florida-ron-desantis-ban/>

--bks

May 2022: The month that "Libertarians" were exposed.

[Blue Lives Matter]

On 16 May 2022 23:31:50 -0000, b...@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman)
wrote:

Good for DeSantis.

[Siri Cruise]

In article <t5umt6$9mj$1...@panix3.panix.com>,

b...@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) wrote:

> | Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signs bill banning "picketing
> | and protesting" outside a private residence

And operation rescue?

--
:-<> Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. Deleted. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
Discordia: not just a religion but also a parody. This post / \
I am an Andrea Chen sockpuppet. insults Islam. Mohammed

[25.BX945]

It's not an ideal law - but, in the current climate, it
has become NECESSARY. Those lefty "protestors"/"demonstrators"
aren't "peaceful" anymore - they're out to intimidate, to
to *terrorize*.

What is "terrorism" ? Kinda like porn - you can't exactly
define it, but you know it when you see it. This law gets
around the "can't exactly define it" problem.

BUT, if the political climate moderates ... if ... then
this law should be modified or withdrawn. Think of it
as a Title-42 fix for a citizenry currently infected
with ideological rabies.

As for who's "after" the 1st amendment - look no further
than Joes Thought Police / Ministry Of Truth ...... wow.

[Mitchell Holman]

"25.BX945" <25B...@nada.net> wrote in
news:b96dnQGPhcRClR7_...@earthlink.com:

> On 5/16/22 8:10 PM, Blue Lives Matter wrote:
>> On 16 May 2022 23:31:50 -0000, b...@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman)
>> wrote:
>>
>>> |
>>> | Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signs bill banning "picketing
>>> | and protesting" outside a private residence
>>> | ...
>>> <https://www.cbsnews.com/news/protests-roe-v-wade-homes-florida-ron-d
>>> esantis-ban/>
>>>
>>> --bks
>>>
>>> May 2022: The month that "Libertarians" were exposed.
>>
>> Good for DeSantis.
>
> It's not an ideal law - but, in the current climate, it
> has become NECESSARY. Those lefty "protestors"/"demonstrators"
> aren't "peaceful" anymore - they're out to intimidate, to
> to *terrorize*.
>
> What is "terrorism" ?

Terrorism is the supporters of
"pro-life" bombing health care clinics
and shooting doctors in the back.

But you knew that already, right?

[David Hartung]

Absolutely.

[David Hartung]

Illegal behavior from one group justifies illegal behavior from another?

[Rudy Canoza]

There is no comparison. The pro-choice left harasses its opponents. The
anti-choice right kills its opponents and burns their buildings down.

No comparison.

[Rudy Canoza]

It's unconstitutional and will be thrown out.

[AlleyCat]

On 16 May 2022 23:31:50 -0000, Bradley K. Sherman says...

> | Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signs bill banning "picketing
> | and protesting" outside a private residence

Awww... is Bradley gonna cwy?

DeSantis is not violating free speech, stupid.

You need a permit, pussy.

Know your rights, retard.

The residences are private, the streets are public, pansy.

In some cases, government require a permit as a condition of protest on public
property. For example, government often can require a permit for parades in the
streets, given the impact on vehicle traffic.

Private property owners can set rules for speech on their property. The
government may not restrict your speech if it is taking place on your own
property or with the consent of the property owner.

Certain types of events may require permits. These include a march or parade
that requires blocking traffic or street closure; a large rally requiring the
use of sound amplifying devices; or a rally over a certain size at most parks
or plazas.

=====

ACLU:

Know your rights Back to Know Your Rights

The First Amendment protects your right to assemble and express your views
through protest. HOWEVER, POLICE AND OTHER GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS ARE ALLOWED TO
PLACE CERTAIN NARROW RESTRICTIONS ON THE EXERCISE OF SPEECH RIGHTS.

Make sure you're prepared by brushing up on your rights before heading out into
the streets.

=====

When can government require a permit to protest? | ACLU of Illinois

https://www.aclu-il.org/en/news/when-can-government-require-permit-protest

In some cases, government can require a permit as a condition of protest on
public property. For example, government often can require a permit for parades
in the streets, given the impact on vehicle traffic.

=====

Know Your Rights | Protesters" Rights - American Civil Liberties Union

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights/

You don't need a permit to march in the streets or on sidewalks, as long as
marchers don't obstruct car or pedestrian traffic. If you don't have a permit,
police officers can ask you to move to the side of a street or sidewalk to let
others pass or for safety reasons. Certain types of events may require permits.

=====

Protest permit - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_permit

A protest permit or parade permit is permission granted by a governmental
agency for a demonstration to be held in a particular venue at a particular
time. Failing to obtain a permit may lead to charges of parading without a
permit. The requirement of a permit is sometimes denounced as an infringement
of free speech, as permits are denied on spurious grounds or protestors are
corralled into...

=====

Protest Laws by State - FindLaw

https://www.findlaw.com/civilrights/enforcing-your-civil-rights/protest-laws-
by-state.html

In the United States, you have the right to assemble and peacefully protest
against the government as you see fit. Derived from the First Amendment to the
U.S. Constitution, you can assemble and engage in peaceful protest in a public
space. That means sidewalks, streets, public squares, and parks, just to name a
few.

=====

Is requiring a permit for protests in the United States Constitutional...

https://www.quora.com/Is-requiring-a-permit-for-protests-in-the-United-States-
Constitutional?share=1

Yes - generally speaking it is permitted under the First Amendment for the
government to place reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions on the
expression of speech or action, so long as the restrictions are content-neutral
and generally applicable to all people who wish to protest.

=====

Protest Law FAQ - The Legal Rights of Protestors - The Protest Corporation

https://protestcorporation.com/protest-law-faq/

There is no right to protest on private property unless you are the owner or
you have permission from the property owner. Thus, a protest outside of a
corporation's building, or outside of police officer's house, must not enter
any private property and remain entirely on whatever public land (streets,
sidewalks, etc) surrounds the private property.

=====

Your Right To Organize Demonstrations and Protests - ACLU of South Carolina

https://www.aclusc.org/en/know-your-rights/your-right-organize-demonstrations-
and-protests

If you disobey those rules, the owners can order you off their property or have
you arrested. Do we need a permit to hold a protest? If you stay on the
sidewalks, obey traffic signals, and do not block normal pedestrian movement
you shouldn't need a permit. Examples of events that may require permits:

=====

What are your rights to protest in public? - TalksOnLaw

https://www.talksonlaw.com/briefs/what-are-your-rights-to-protest-on-streets-
and-sidewalks

As a general rule the First Amendment permits you to engage in speech to engage
in protest on streets and sidewalks and parks with a pretty big asterisk. You
cannot, without a permit, engage in intentional obstruction. That just means
getting in the way.

=====

Does my event require a permit? | Atlanta, GA

https://www.atlantaga.gov/government/mayor-s-office/executive-offices/office-
of-special-events/does-my-event-require-a-permit

The Mayor's Office of Special Events (MOSE) permits all outdoor events in the
city of Atlanta. To determine if your event requires a permit, please read the
following descriptions.

=====

Know Your Rights at a Protest - ACLU Pennsylvania

https://www.aclupa.org/en/know-your-rights/know-your-rights-protest

Yes, you can picket or leaflet in public places by yourself or in small groups
without a permit so long as you are not blocking streets, sidewalks, or
entrances to buildings. Can I approach other people in public areas? Yes. You
may approach pedestrians with leaflets, newspapers, petitions and requests for
donations.

=====

Protected and Excused White Supremacists:

"A few years ago, this guy (Barack Obama) would have been getting us coffee." -
Bill Clinton(D) to Sen. Ted Kennedy(D)

"Americans can't distinguish "between a South Korean and someone from
Beijing." - Joe Biden

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African American who is articulate and
bright and clean and a nice looking guy." - Sen. Joseph Biden(D)

Biden Used Racist Term "Roaches" to Describe Black Kids Who Felt His Hairy Legs

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada described in private then Sen.
Barack Obama as "light skinned" and "with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to
have one."

Praised Democrat Segregationist Sen. John Stennis(D) as "Man of Character"

"The only reason you are endorsing him is because he's black. Let's just be
clear." - Former President Bill Clinton(D)

"Segregation Is Good for Black People" - Joe Biden

"These Negroes, they're getting pretty uppity these days and that's a problem
for us since they've got something now they never had before, the political
pull to back up their uppityness. Now we've got to do something about this,
we've got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not
enough to make a difference. For if we don't move at all, then their allies
will line up against us and there'll be no way of stopping them, we'll lose the
filibuster and there'll be no way of putting a brake on all sorts of wild
legislation. It'll be Reconstruction all over again." Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson
(D) - Texas, 1957

"(The) Democrat Party Needs More People Like Racist Democrat Governor George
Wallace." - Joe Biden

"There are white Niggers. I've seen a lot of white Niggers in my time." -
Former Klansman and Former US Senator Robert Byrd (deceased)

Gave Speech About What's "Good for the Negro"

"Jews... that's J-E-W-S." - Democratic state representative Bill McKinney on
why his daughter Cynthia lost in 2002

"... if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then
you ain't black..." - Joe Biden

The Jews don't like Farrakhan, so they call me Hitler. Well, that's a good
name. Hitler was a very great man. He rose Germany up from the ashes." - Louis
Farrakhan

"If my opponent wins, they're going to put y'all back in chains." - Joe Biden

"You fucking Jew bastard." - Hillary Clinton

"Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a
jungle." - Joe Biden

Somehow left wingnuts naturally assume that if a person has a bit of color in
their face, and that color is black, then the people they're talking to must
talk, walk and "act Black". Affecting a black accent to recount San Francisco
mayor Willie Brown asking, "Who is this "Emily List'? She's supportin" all
these people. She's supportin" Sen. Dianne Feinstein. She's supported Sen.
Barbara Boxer... She supported everybody. Why won't she support me?" - Hillary
Clinton (D,NY.)

"You cannot go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin" Donuts unless you have a slight
Indian accent. I'm not joking." - Joe Biden

"You'd find these potentates from down in Africa, you know, rather than eating
each other, they'd just come up and get a good square meal in Geneva." - Fritz
Hollings (D, S.C.)

"Poor kids are just as bright and just as talented as white kids" - Joe
Biden... as opposed to "White Kids"? That would imply all poor kids are Black.

"Is you their black-haired answer-mammy who be smart? Does they like how you
shine their shoes, Condoleezza? Or the way you wash and park the whitey's
cars?" - Song from the show of left-wing radio host Neil Rogers

"I do not buy the concept, popular in the "60s, which said, "We have suppressed
the black man for 300 years." - Joe Biden

"Blacks and Hispanics are too busy eating watermelons and tacos to learn how to
read and write." - Mike Wallace, CBS News

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African American who is articulate and
bright and clean." - Joe Biden

"Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt
never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by
race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds." - Former
Klansman and current US Senator Robert Byrd

"We (Delawareans) were on the South's side in the Civil War." - Joe Biden

[David Hartung]

Possible, but don't bet on it.

[Siri Cruise]

In article <yf2dnYE_acwAkh7_...@giganews.com>,

No criticism of the people who started this?

[David Hartung]

On 5/16/22 22:22, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <yf2dnYE_acwAkh7_...@giganews.com>,
> David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/16/22 19:10, Blue Lives Matter wrote:
>>> On 16 May 2022 23:31:50 -0000, b...@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> |
>>>> | Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signs bill banning "picketing
>>>> | and protesting" outside a private residence
>>>> | ...
>>>> <https://www.cbsnews.com/news/protests-roe-v-wade-homes-florida-ron-desanti
>>>> s-ban/>
>>>>
>>>> --bks
>>>>
>>>> May 2022: The month that "Libertarians" were exposed.
>>>
>>> Good for DeSantis.
>>
>> Absolutely.
>
> No criticism of the people who started this?

You mean the pro abortion Democrats?

[Siri Cruise]

In article <b96dnQGPhcRClR7_...@earthlink.com>,

"25.BX945" <25B...@nada.net> wrote:

> It's not an ideal law - but, in the current climate, it
> has become NECESSARY. Those lefty "protestors"/"demonstrators"
> aren't "peaceful" anymore - they're out to intimidate, to
> to *terrorize*.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-07-11-mn-12212-story.
html

16 Anti-Abortion Protesters Arrested in San Jose : Rally:
Picketers taking part in Operation Rescue’s nationwide effort are
accused of targeting a doctor’s home.

> What is "terrorism" ? Kinda like porn - you can't exactly

As usual I could find it in the US Code in a few seconds. You
will never be able to find it. Paragraph (5).

[Siri Cruise]

In article <yf2dnYA_acxqkh7_...@giganews.com>,

David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:

> Illegal behavior from one group justifies illegal behavior from another?

Peaceful assembly is not an illegal behaviour. It is a protected
behaviour.

[Siri Cruise]

In article <M76dncRm6JWbjh7_...@giganews.com>,

David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:

> > It's unconstitutional and will be thrown out.
>
> Possible, but don't bet on it.

Just as constitutional as people standing outside of abortion
clinics. As long as they don't impede right of way, shoot doctors
through kitch windows, and that sort of thing, peaceful assembly
is a right.

[Blue Lives Matter]

On Mon, 16 May 2022 22:30:54 -0400, "25.BX945" <25B...@nada.net>
wrote:

It's like the creeps that scream "say his name." How close do they
have to get to your face before you push them away and yell "fuck
George Floyd."

[Blue Lives Matter]

On Mon, 16 May 2022 22:14:14 -0500, David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com>
wrote:

The key is "intent" as defined in the law...

"It is unlawful for a person to picket or protest
before or about the dwelling of any person with the intent to
harass or disturb that person in his or her dwelling."

[Blue Lives Matter]

On Mon, 16 May 2022 20:31:39 -0700, Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>In article <yf2dnYA_acxqkh7_...@giganews.com>,
> David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Illegal behavior from one group justifies illegal behavior from another?
>
>Peaceful assembly is not an illegal behaviour. It is a protected
>behaviour.

Peaceful is fine. Harassment is not.

[Blue Lives Matter]

On Mon, 16 May 2022 21:59:41 -0500, David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com>
wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisby_v._Schultz

[David Hartung]

On 5/16/22 22:31, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <yf2dnYA_acxqkh7_...@giganews.com>,
> David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Illegal behavior from one group justifies illegal behavior from another?
>
> Peaceful assembly is not an illegal behaviour. It is a protected
> behaviour.

If the protestors are on private property, they are tresspassing. If
they are in the street they are impeading the flow of traffic. To
rational people both actions are not peaceful assembly.

[David Hartung]

On 5/17/22 03:35, super70s wrote:
> In article <2d2dnVZfeOZpiB7_...@giganews.com>,

> Your whacko evangelical side has been shooting abortion doctors in the
> back for 40 years.

Exactly how many abortion doctors have been shot?

[NoBody]

On 16 May 2022 23:31:50 -0000, b...@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman)
wrote:

> |

Here's a more complete quote that you selectively snipped:

"
U.S.

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signs bill banning "picketing and
protesting" outside a private residence

By Zoe Christen Jones

May 16, 2022 / 7:05 PM / CBS News

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signed a bill Monday that prohibits
"picketing and protesting" outside someone's private residence. The
news comes following a wave of protests over abortion rights, many of
which have taken place outside lawmakers' communities and homes.

The law makes it a second-degree misdemeanor to protest in a way that
intentionally harasses or disturbs someone in their home. Violators
face 60 days in jail and fines of up to $500. "


Free speech does not include the right to invade someone's privacy and
harass.

[NoBody]

On Mon, 16 May 2022 20:31:39 -0700, Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>In article <yf2dnYA_acxqkh7_...@giganews.com>,
> David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Illegal behavior from one group justifies illegal behavior from another?
>
>Peaceful assembly is not an illegal behaviour. It is a protected
>behaviour.

Harrassment *is* an illegal behavior.

[David Hartung]

On 5/17/22 03:35, super70s wrote:

> In article <2d2dnVZfeOZpiB7_...@giganews.com>,

> Your whacko evangelical side has been shooting abortion doctors in the
> back for 40 years.

While even one murder is too many, I strongly suspect that the problem
isn't as widespread as you make it out to be; and I am absolutely
certain that the nutcases who do such things are rejected by the
mainstream of the pro-life movement.

[Yak]

You didn't read the bill, did you?

[David Hartung]

Common sense.

[Yak]

On 5/16/22 11:31 PM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <yf2dnYA_acxqkh7_...@giganews.com>,
> David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Illegal behavior from one group justifies illegal behavior from another?
>
> Peaceful assembly is not an illegal behaviour. It is a protected
> behaviour.

That's not what the DeSantis bill is attempting to preclude. One look at
the bill makes it clear.

[Yak]

Bingo. That that right there is why it is unlikely that anyone would
ever be criminally culpable under the bill.

[Siri Cruise]

In article <2oudnR-6_6EkHx7_...@giganews.com>,

David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:

> While even one murder is too many, I strongly suspect that the problem
> isn't as widespread as you make it out to be

As usual you respond with 'Yes...but'. 'Yes that would be
wrong'...'but we can make an exception this time'. That's why you
can't obey Jesus's new commandment. Because you always have to
add a qualifier why you can't love this one or that one.

[Siri Cruise]

In article <Iv6dnYN-uokeHR7_...@giganews.com>,

'Yes......but.....'

[Siri Cruise]

In article <M5ydnTbBKqNN8R7_...@giganews.com>,

David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:

> On 5/16/22 22:31, Siri Cruise wrote:
> > In article <yf2dnYA_acxqkh7_...@giganews.com>,
> > David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Illegal behavior from one group justifies illegal behavior from another?
> >
> > Peaceful assembly is not an illegal behaviour. It is a protected
> > behaviour.
>
> If the protestors are on private property, they are tresspassing. If
> they are in the street they are impeading the flow of traffic. To

Find out what 'peaceful assembly' means.

[Siri Cruise]

In article <t6007a$efo$3...@dont-email.me>, Yak <y...@inbox.com>
wrote:

> Bingo. That that right there is why it is unlikely that anyone would
> ever be criminally culpable under the bill.

Why have it?

[Yak]

On 5/17/22 7:57 AM, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <t6007a$efo$3...@dont-email.me>, Yak <y...@inbox.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Bingo. That that right there is why it is unlikely that anyone would
>> ever be criminally culpable under the bill.
>
> Why have it?

Why have laws against intentional murder?

[Mitchell Holman]

David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote in news:2oudnR-6_6EkHx7_nZ2dnUU7-
X_N...@giganews.com:

Funny how every murder committed by
a conservative is "an isolated case",
but the cases keep happening over and
over again.

[Mitchell Holman]

David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote in news:Iv6dnYN-uokeHR7_nZ2dnUU7-V-
dn...@giganews.com:

How many need to be shot for you to care?

[Mitchell Holman]

Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:chine.bleu-
0A5A32.042...@news.eternal-september.org:

> In article <Iv6dnYN-uokeHR7_...@giganews.com>,
> David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/17/22 03:35, super70s wrote:
>> > In article <2d2dnVZfeOZpiB7_...@giganews.com>,
>> > David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 5/16/22 22:22, Siri Cruise wrote:
>> >>> In article <yf2dnYE_acwAkh7_...@giganews.com>,
>> >>> David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 5/16/22 19:10, Blue Lives Matter wrote:
>> >>>>> Good for DeSantis.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Absolutely.
>> >>>
>> >>> No criticism of the people who started this?
>> >>
>> >> You mean the pro abortion Democrats?
>> >
>> > Your whacko evangelical side has been shooting abortion doctors in
the
>> > back for 40 years.
>>
>> Exactly how many abortion doctors have been shot?
>
> 'Yes......but.....'
>

Just like school shootings no number will
be high enough for Hartung to care.





PENSACOLA, FL - March 10, 1993.
Dr. David Gunn was shot and killed
while entering a clinic during an
anti-abortion demonstration by
Rescue America. Michael Griffin
was sentenced to life.


HOUSTON, TX - 1991. Dr. Karpen was
shot and wounded outside his clinic.
Assailant was never apprehended.


WICHITA, KANSAS - August 19, 1993.
Dr. George Tiller was shot in both
arms at point-blank range by Rachelle
Shelley Shannon as he was leaving
his clinic. Shannon was sentenced to
11 years.


MOBILE, AL - August 21, 1993
Dr. George Patterson is shot to death
in a parking lot


PENSACOLA, FL - July, 1994.
Dr. John Bayard Britton and
volunteer clinic escort Lt Col.
James Barrett were murdered by
anti-abortion extremist Paul Hill


VANCOUVER, CANADA - November 8,
1994. Dr. Garson Romalis was shot
and severely wounded in the leg
by a sniper with a high powered
rifle shooting through the window
of Romalis' home. James Charles
Kopp, a member of the Army of God,
remains a primary suspect in the
assassination attempt.


BROOKLINE, MA - December 30, 1994.
John Salvi shot and killed Planned
Parenthood receptionist Shannon Lowney.
Going to a second clinic, he shot and
killed receptionist Leanne Nichols.
Five others were wounded in the attacks.


ANCASTER, ONTARIO - November 10, 1995.
Dr. Hugh Short was shot in the elbow
by a sniper using a high-powered rifle
to shoot through the window of Short's
home. Army of God member James Charles
Kopp charged in the assassination attempt.


NEW ORLEANS, LA - December 1996.
Dr C. Jackson was brutally stabbed
15 times outside his clinic. The
assailant was then arrested at a
Baton Rouge clinic as he lay in wait
for another doctor.


WINNIPEG, CANADA - November 11, 1997,
Dr. Jack Fainman was shot by a sniper
with a high powered rifle while in his
home.


ROCHESTER, NY - October 28, 1997.
Dr. David Gandell was wounded by flying
glass when a sniper with a high powered
rifle shot into his home.


BIRMINGHAM, AL - January 29, 1998.
A bomb packed with nails exploded at
the New Woman, All Women clinic killing
the security guard and maiming a clinic
nurse. Army of God claimed credit in
letter to news media. Eric Robert Rudolph
was charged


AMHERST, NY - October 23, 1998.
Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot and killed
by a sniper with a high powered rifle
while standing with his wife and children
in the kitchen of his home.


VANCOUVER, CANADA - July 11, 2000.
Dr. Garson Romalis was stabbed in
the back


WICHITA, KS - May 31, 2009.
Dr. George Tiller, a longtime target
of anti-abortion extremists, was shot
and killed by a single gunshot to his
head.


COLORADO SPRINGS, CO - November 27, 2015.
Robert Lewis Dear killed three and injured
nine at a Planned Parenthood clinic in
Colorado Springs. Dear has been formally
charged with 179 felony counts, including
eight counts of first-degree murder and
131 counts of attempted first-degree murder.

https://tinyurl.com/4u5w4hpz

[Rudy Canoza]

On 5/16/2022 8:14 PM, David Hartung wrote:
> On 5/16/22 22:05, Rudy Canoza wrote:

>> On 5/16/2022 7:59 PM, David Hartung wrote:
>>> On 5/16/22 19:10, Blue Lives Matter wrote:

>>>> On 16 May 2022 23:31:50 -0000, b...@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman)
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> |
>>>>> | Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signs bill banning "picketing
>>>>> | and protesting" outside a private residence
>>>>> | ...
>>>>> <https://www.cbsnews.com/news/protests-roe-v-wade-homes-florida-ron-desantis-ban/>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     --bks
>>>>>
>>>>> May 2022: The month that "Libertarians" were exposed.
>>>>
>>>> Good for DeSantis.
>>>
>>> Absolutely.
>>
>> It's unconstitutional and will be thrown out.
>
> Possible, but don't bet on it.

Guaranteed.

[Rudy Canoza]

On 5/16/2022 8:26 PM, David Hartung wrote:
> On 5/16/22 22:22, Siri Cruise wrote:
>> In article <yf2dnYE_acwAkh7_...@giganews.com>,

>>   David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/16/22 19:10, Blue Lives Matter wrote:
>>>> On 16 May 2022 23:31:50 -0000, b...@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman)
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> |
>>>>> | Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signs bill banning "picketing
>>>>> | and protesting" outside a private residence
>>>>> | ...
>>>>> <https://www.cbsnews.com/news/protests-roe-v-wade-homes-florida-ron-desanti
>>>>> s-ban/>
>>>>>
>>>>>      --bks
>>>>>
>>>>> May 2022: The month that "Libertarians" were exposed.
>>>>
>>>> Good for DeSantis.
>>>
>>> Absolutely.
>>

>> No criticism of the people who started this?
>
> You mean the

Republiscums/QAnon. Yes.

[David Hartung]

Now show that the mainstream of the pro-life movement has ever spoken
out in favor of these murders.

[Rudy Canoza]

On 5/17/2022 2:37 AM, David Hartung wrote:
> On 5/16/22 22:31, Siri Cruise wrote:
>> In article <yf2dnYA_acxqkh7_...@giganews.com>,
>>   David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Illegal behavior from one group justifies illegal behavior from another?
>>
>> Peaceful assembly is not an illegal behaviour. It is a protected
>> behaviour.
>
> If the protestors are on private property,

They aren't.

> they are tresspassing. If they are in

> the street they are impeading [sic]

*Impeding*, you illiterate shitbag.


> the flow of traffic.

They aren't. They're on the sidewalk if there is one, and at the side of the
road otherwise, where they have a *right* to be if there is no sidewalk.

The law is unconstitutional and will be overturned.

[Rudy Canoza]

On 5/17/2022 4:10 AM, David Hartung wrote:
> On 5/17/22 03:35, super70s wrote:
>> In article <2d2dnVZfeOZpiB7_...@giganews.com>,
>>   David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/16/22 22:22, Siri Cruise wrote:
>>>> In article <yf2dnYE_acwAkh7_...@giganews.com>,
>>>>    David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/16/22 19:10, Blue Lives Matter wrote:
>>>>>> Good for DeSantis.
>>>>>
>>>>> Absolutely.
>>>>
>>>> No criticism of the people who started this?
>>>
>>> You mean the pro abortion Democrats?
>>
>> Your whacko evangelical side has been shooting abortion doctors in the
>> back for 40 years.
>
> While even one murder is too many,

You don't believe that. You defend it. You consider it "righteous" killing.
It's no different to you, "morally" [sic], than executing a murderer. Fuck off.

[Rudy Canoza]

On 5/17/2022 6:47 AM, David Hartung, filthy lying philandering white
supremacist, lied:

> On 5/17/22 08:37, Mitchell Holman wrote:
>> Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:chine.bleu-
>> 0A5A32.042...@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> In article <Iv6dnYN-uokeHR7_...@giganews.com>,
>>>   David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/17/22 03:35, super70s wrote:

>>>>> David Hartung, filthy lying philandering white supremacist, lied:

>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/16/22 22:22, Siri Cruise wrote:

>>>>>>> David Hartung, filthy lying philandering white supremacist, lied:

The *core* of the phony "pro-life" movement supports the murder of abortion
providers.

https://www.vox.com/2015/12/10/9881238/pro-life-abortion-violence

Proved.

[David Hartung]

On 5/17/22 08:53, Rudy Canoza wrote:
> On 5/17/2022 2:37 AM, David Hartung wrote:
>> On 5/16/22 22:31, Siri Cruise wrote:
>>> In article <yf2dnYA_acxqkh7_...@giganews.com>,
>>>   David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Illegal behavior from one group justifies illegal behavior from
>>>> another?
>>>
>>> Peaceful assembly is not an illegal behaviour. It is a protected
>>> behaviour.
>>
>> If the protestors are on private property,
>
> They aren't.
>
>> they are tresspassing. If they are in the street they are impeading [sic]
>
> *Impeding*, you illiterate shitbag.
>
>
>> the flow of traffic.
>
> They aren't.  They're on the sidewalk if there is one, and at the side
> of the road otherwise,

In many residential neighborhoods there is no sidewalk and the private
lot extends directly to the curb. The demonstrators have a choice of
trespassing or demonstrating on the public street and likely impeding
traffic in the process.

> where they have a *right* to be if there is no
> sidewalk.

There is no right to impede the flow of traffic on apublic street,
unless one has obtained a "parade" permit.

>
> The law is unconstitutional and will be overturned.

Once again, don't hold your breath.

[Rudy Canoza]

On 5/17/2022 7:34 AM, David Hartung, filthy lying philandering white
supremacist, lied:

> On 5/17/22 08:53, Rudy Canoza wrote:

>> On 5/17/2022 2:37 AM, David Hartung, filthy lying philandering white supremacist, lied:

>>> On 5/16/22 22:31, Siri Cruise wrote:
>>>> In article <yf2dnYA_acxqkh7_...@giganews.com>,

>>>>   David Hartung, filthy lying philandering white supremacist, lied:
>>>>

>>>>> Illegal behavior from one group justifies illegal behavior from another?
>>>>
>>>> Peaceful assembly is not an illegal behaviour. It is a protected
>>>> behaviour.
>>>
>>> If the protestors are on private property,
>>
>> They aren't.
>>
>>> they are tresspassing. If they are in the street they are impeading [sic]
>>
>> *Impeding*, you illiterate shitbag.
>>
>>
>>> the flow of traffic.
>>
>> They aren't.  They're on the sidewalk if there is one, and at the side of the
>> road otherwise,
>
> In many residential neighborhoods there is no sidewalk and

Then pedestrians are *permitted* to stand at the side of the road, on the roadway.

>
>> where they have a *right* to be if there is no sidewalk.
>
> There is no right to impede the flow of traffic

They aren't.

>>
>> The law is unconstitutional and will be overturned.
>
> Once again,

Bet on it, you philandering liar.

[David Hartung]

Are you certain? From the VOX article:

[...]
But for most pro-life leaders, that logic doesn't hold. They see
violence against abortion providers not just as antithetical to their
own beliefs but also as standing in the way of their goals of
eliminating abortion in America.
[...]
In response to this violence, the Southern Baptist Convention penned a
seminal document, the Nashville Declaration of Conscience, in the fall
of 1994. It argued that in Christian doctrine, murder was immoral
regardless of whatever ends the killer hoped to achieve.

"According to both civil law and divine moral law private citizens are
permitted to use lethal force against another human being only if this
occurs as an unintended effect of the act of defending oneself or
another against an assailant’s unjust attack," the document declares.
[...]
Violence against abortion providers "is not only unacceptable, it's
morally abhorrent," says Russell Moore, president of the Southern
Baptist Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission. "Nothing could be further
from a pro-life point of view than the murder of human beings."

Prior, at Liberty University, makes a slightly different version of the
same argument: that pro-life activists can't advocate for laws to
protect unborn lives by violating current laws that outlaw murder.

"Unlawfully taking the life of another human being contradicts the very
goal we have of challenging and changing an unjust law, a goal rooted in
an underlying belief in the rule of law," Prior says.
[...]

It seems that you are mistaken.

[Siri Cruise]

In article <QP6dnZ7Wc6wdLx7_...@giganews.com>,

David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:

> There is no right to impede the flow of traffic on apublic street,
> unless one has obtained a "parade" permit.

Modern states--Florida excepted? Have laws against blocking a
right of way. So why do they need another law?

[Siri Cruise]

In article <nMSdnRBU0fPGOh7_...@giganews.com>,

David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:

> Now show that the mainstream of the pro-life movement has ever spoken
> out in favor of these murders.

Yes......but......

[Siri Cruise]

In article <t606qq$cr4$2...@dont-email.me>, Yak <y...@inbox.com>
wrote:

It is unlikely that anyone doing murder would be criminally
culpable under the laws.

So, still, why have it?

[Rudy Canoza]

On 5/17/2022 7:34 AM, David Hartung, filthy lying philandering white
supremacist, lied:

> On 5/17/22 08:53, Rudy Canoza wrote:

>> On 5/17/2022 2:37 AM, David Hartung, filthy lying philandering white supremacist, lied:

>>> On 5/16/22 22:31, Siri Cruise wrote:
>>>> In article <yf2dnYA_acxqkh7_...@giganews.com>,

>>>>   David Hartung, filthy lying philandering white supremacist, lied:
>>>>

>>>>> Illegal behavior from one group justifies illegal behavior from another?
>>>>
>>>> Peaceful assembly is not an illegal behaviour. It is a protected
>>>> behaviour.
>>>
>>> If the protestors are on private property,
>>
>> They aren't.
>>
>>> they are tresspassing. If they are in the street they are impeading [sic]
>>
>> *Impeding*, you illiterate shitbag.
>>
>>
>>> the flow of traffic.
>>
>> They aren't.  They're on the sidewalk if there is one, and at the side of the

>> road otherwise, where they have a *right* to be if there is no sidewalk.

>
> There is no right to impede the flow of traffic on apublic street,

That's not what this bill is about. Florida already has laws dealing with
blocking traffic. This speech suppression bill has nothing to do with blocking
traffic. Fuck off.

[Siri Cruise]

In article <KP6dnSJjyL3RWh7_...@giganews.com>,

David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:

> In response to this violence, the Southern Baptist Convention penned a

Sanctuary churches put their liberty on the line to do what is
right. So did any of these baptists actually do anything to
protect abortionists or just write 'manifestos' nobody read?

https://baptistnews.com/article/united-methodists-reluctant-pro-ch
oice-stance-puts-clergy-and-laity-at-odds-with-new-texas-abortion-
law/#.YoPTSYVK4y4

UMC women leading protests

Two United Methodist clergywomen, Stephanie Arnold and Katie
Gilbert, posted a protest of the Texas law on TikTok dressed in
costumes resembling those in The Handmaid's Tale, Margaret
Atwood's dystopian novel of women's slavery upon which a Hulu
series was based. Arnold and Gilbert serve as pastors at First
United Methodist Church of Birmingham, Ala.

United Methodist Women also issued a statement denouncing the
Texas law: 'United Methodist Women, like The United Methodist
Church, affirms that women and families need access to the full
range of reproductive health care, with the guidance the church
provides. ... We pray that legislators in states across the
country will make a different choice and allow women to discuss
health care needs with their loved ones and health care
providers.'

Lynn Parsons, a United Methodist laywoman in San Diego, urged her
co-religionists to address the Texas law by becoming centers for
reproductive health knowledge. In a commentary for UM News she
wrote: 'Why aren't churches sources of information about birth
control and prevention of venereal disease for their youngest,
most vulnerable members who are having sex, even if we want to
pretend they are not?'
Threat to pastoral ministry

Church historian William B. Lawrence noted the Texas abortion
law’s threat to pastoral ministry in a recent commentary for UM
News. Lawrence participated in a coalition, Clergy Consultation
Service, that operated in the 1960s and ’70s to assist women with
abortion access prior to the U.S. Supreme Court’s Roe v. Wade
decision that legalized abortion nationwide.

[Mitchell Holman]

David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote in news:nMSdnRBU0fPGOh7_nZ2dnUU7-
VWd...@giganews.com:

You are more in tune with your
pro-life agitator friends, you show
us where they condemned any abortion
clinic violence. And what they did to
prevent it in the future.

[%]

[25.BX945]

On 5/17/22 4:22 AM, Blue Lives Matter wrote:
> On Mon, 16 May 2022 20:31:39 -0700, Siri Cruise <chine...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> In article <yf2dnYA_acxqkh7_...@giganews.com>,

>> David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Illegal behavior from one group justifies illegal behavior from another?
>>
>> Peaceful assembly is not an illegal behaviour. It is a protected
>> behaviour.
>

> Peaceful is fine. Harassment is not.


Very fuzzy lines there ... if they're protesting YOU
then it's "harassment", if you're protesting THEM
then it's "peaceful" :-)

[David Hartung]

On 5/17/22 11:59, Siri Cruise wrote:
> In article <KP6dnSJjyL3RWh7_...@giganews.com>,
> David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In response to this violence, the Southern Baptist Convention penned a
>
> Sanctuary churches put their liberty on the line to do what is
> right. So did any of these baptists actually do anything to
> protect abortionists or just write 'manifestos' nobody read?

My post was a response t an accusation that pro-life people support the
killing of abortionist, that is all.

[David Hartung]

Is this yet another of your attempts to force someone to make astatement
which you can then attack? Whether or not any one pro-life group has
condemned abortion clinic violence is not thepoint. Your claim is that
pro-life people support such viplence, and my response was to ask you to
support your claim. You have not done so.

[Mitchell Holman]

David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote in

news:FuKdnaM2p8sHWhn_...@giganews.com:

Every crime listed above was committed by pro-life people.

And every crime cited below.



An epidemic of antiabortion violence in the United States

Between 1977-88 there was an epidemic of violence
directed against abortion clinics. These attacks
consisted of 110 cases of arson, firebombing, or
bombing. In 1984 the epidemic reached a peak with
29 attacks. 98% of the sites were clinics that
provided abortion services. During the study period
1977-88, the National Abortion Federation reported
the following violent acts against clinics: 222 clinic
invasions, 220 acts of clinic vandalism, 216 bomb
threats, 65 death threats, 46 assault and batteries,
20 burglaries, and 2 kidnapings.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1957842/

[Rudy Canoza]

On 5/18/2022 3:13 AM, David Hartung wrote:
> On 5/17/22 11:59, Siri Cruise wrote:
>> In article <KP6dnSJjyL3RWh7_...@giganews.com>,
>>   David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In response to this violence, the Southern Baptist Convention penned a
>>
>> Sanctuary churches put their liberty on the line to do what is
>> right. So did any of these baptists actually do anything to
>> protect abortionists or just write 'manifestos' nobody read?
>

> My post was a response t an accusation that pro-life [sic] people support the killing
> of abortionist [sic]

They do.

[Rudy Canoza]

No, it's an attempt to get you to support your claims. You can't, of course.

Your "pro-life" [sic] agitator friends — the clinic bombers — have never
condemned any clinic violence. They *commit* it.

[David Hartung]

A claim which you have yet to support.

[David Hartung]

Once again Holman, the claim is that the pro-life movement as a whole
supports this. You still have not supported that claim.

[Rudy Canoza]

is amply supported. Correct.

[Rudy Canoza]

> Once again[inverse Hartung comma] Holman, the claim is that the pro-life [sic] movement as a whole supports
> this.

They do.

You omitted a *necessary* comma after "again." You'll never get this right.
You're illiterate and stupid, and you intend to remain that way.

[Siri Cruise]

In article <POGdnfKWG40oYRn_...@giganews.com>,

David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote:

> Once again Holman, the claim is that the pro-life movement as a whole
> supports this. You still have not supported that claim.

I know UMC is against this. They don't know how to equivocate
like you. Jesus didn't equivocate.

[Mitchell Holman]

David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote in news:POGdnfKWG40oYRn_nZ2dnUU7-
eHN...@giganews.com:

Show us such claim. I never said anything
about "the pro-life movement as a whole",
whatever that is.

> supports this. You still have not supported that claim.

All the attacks on abortion doctors
is by pro-life people. Fact.

All of the attacks on abortion clinics
is by pro-life people. Fact.

[Mitchell Holman]

David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote in

news:E5WdnQorBuK5Zhn_...@giganews.com:

Since when do you care about unsupported claims?




"When a man and a women copulate, they have
made the decision to become parents."
David Hartung, Jan 21, 2019
http://tinyurl.com/yb2qptdn

[David Hartung]

I did not say that you have made the claim, but that the claim was made:

From a post by Rudy on 16 May about 0921"
[...]

The *core* of the phony "pro-life" movement supports the murder of
abortion providers.

https://www.vox.com/2015/12/10/9881238/pro-life-abortion-violence

Proved.

[...]

[Mitchell Holman]

David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote in

news:B4udnU-2IvLl3hj_...@giganews.com:

Huh?

Read the thread above, NO ONE made that claim.

In fact "Rudy" posted NOTHING in this thread.

Have you completely lost it?

[David Hartung]

You deleted the quote I provided and then say that the quote doesn't exist.

[Mitchell Holman]

David Hartung <da...@Hotmail.com> wrote in

news:iaydndvEbq5Fvxv_...@giganews.com:

I deleted nothing.

There is no quote from Rudy, much less
one that I have an obligation to refute.

Why do you lie so much?