Intifadah Statistics

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Gedaliah Friedenberg

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Jun 12, 1993, 11:16:44 PM6/12/93
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Arabs killed by other Arabs involved in the Intifadah:

Through April 16, 1993:

Killed for "cooperating with the authorities" 824
Killed in internment camps 43
Killed incidentally in actions against Jews 9
TOTAL..........................................876

Numbers from _The Yesha Report_, April/May edition.


--
Gedaliah Friedenberg
-=-Department of Mechanical Engineering
-=-Department of Metallurgy, Mechanics and Materials Science
-=-Michigan State University

Gedaliah Friedenberg

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Jun 12, 1993, 11:33:03 PM6/12/93
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"The Jewish presence in Palestine is temporary and we must crucify
Palestinains collaborating with Israel."
--Sheik Mohammed Jamal, assistant Mufti of Jerusalem, quoted
by Israel radio (March 19, 1993)

"Nobody has thought to ask why, if peace requires the taking of risks,
it is Israel that has to take them."
--Shmuel Katz, The Jerusalem Post (March 13, 1993)

"We must realize that the present state's slogan is not 'from the
[Mediterranean] sea to the [Jordan] River'... Sooner or later we will
*force* the Israeli society to cooperate with the larger society --
that is, our Arab society -- and ultimately lead to the dissolution of
the 'Zionist entity' gradually."
--Faisal Husseini, "moderate" advisor to Palestinain Arab
delegation to the peace talks, in the Jordanian newspaper
_El-Rai_ (November 12, 1992)

"Anybody visiting [the Hamas deportees'] camp can't help but to notice
the rich variety of drinks and luxuries they are enjoying, unlike most
Lebaneese. They are in much better shape than many Lebaneese, and
probably better off than some Palestinians in the territories. They
have fresh meat and all kinds of fruits and vegetables, gas stoves,
televisions and telephones, while the majority of Lebaneese have been
dreaming of hearing a telephone ring in their homes for the past 20
years."
--Lebaneese newspaper _Nida al-Watan_ (March 10, 1993)

Gregg Jaeger

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Jun 15, 1993, 12:06:27 AM6/15/93
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It was reported on National Public Radio today that a group of Israeli
and Palestinian physicians reported recently (presumably in Vienna this
morning) that of the 10,000 Palestinians in Israeli jails, 1/4 to 1/2
were subject to torture. The group condemned the state of Israel for
this practice of systematic torture.

Mike Magil

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Jun 15, 1993, 8:58:33 AM6/15/93
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jae...@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)

Well that's all fine and dandy! Accusing a regime of torturing prisoners is
VERY easy to do however proving it is a completely different story! What/who
were these physicians sources to base their charge? Were the alleged
"tortured" prisoners the primary source? If so, how does one consider these
people (prisoners) to be credible? I have very serious doubts about the
accuracy of the above statistic for many reasons. I have just scratched the
surface!

Mike.


Michael MI KE MIK EMIK EMI K "Opinions expressed above
Zion M I K E M I K E M are my own and not that
Magil M I K E MIKEM I KEM I K of 'Big Blue'"
M I K E M IKE M IKE MIKE

IBM Corp., Toronto, Canada

Gregg Jaeger

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Jun 15, 1993, 1:47:16 PM6/15/93
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In article <19930615....@almaden.ibm.com> mel...@vnet.IBM.COM (Mike Magil) writes:
>jae...@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)

>>It was reported on National Public Radio today that a group of Israeli
>>and Palestinian physicians reported recently (presumably in Vienna this
>>morning) that of the 10,000 Palestinians in Israeli jails, 1/4 to 1/2
>>were subject to torture. The group condemned the state of Israel for
>>this practice of systematic torture.

>Well that's all fine and dandy! Accusing a regime of torturing prisoners is
>VERY easy to do however proving it is a completely different story! What/who
>were these physicians sources to base their charge? Were the alleged
>"tortured" prisoners the primary source? If so, how does one consider these
>people (prisoners) to be credible? I have very serious doubts about the
>accuracy of the above statistic for many reasons. I have just scratched the
>surface!


Fine. Seeing as National Public Radio is one of the most reputable
sources on events in Israel I trust their reports since I know them
to be a reliable source of information. If you're really so doubtful
I'd suggest getting in touch with them and asking them for *their*
sources. I simply reported what I heard and where I heard it.


Gregg


Jake Livni

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Jun 15, 1993, 7:17:34 PM6/15/93
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In article <123...@bu.edu> jae...@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:

>It was reported on National Public Radio today that a group of Israeli

I missed this report. Perhaps it was skipped while my local NPR
station was pushing their fund drive. In the middle of their last
fund drive, they were knocked off the air when their antenna atop the
World Trade Center was put out of action. You might recall that
incident - something to do with someone wanting their deposit back?

>and Palestinian physicians reported recently (presumably in Vienna this
>morning) that of the 10,000 Palestinians in Israeli jails, 1/4 to 1/2
>were subject to torture.

1/4 to 1/2 of 10,000 prisoners.
Well which is it? Are there 2,500 tortured prisoners or 5,000?

>The group condemned the state of Israel for
>this practice of systematic torture.

They didn't bring any evidence, apparently.
NPR should know better than to air allegations without substantiation.
But on some stories, they don't. It's no wonder that they are
sometimes known as National Palestine Radio. Pity about the antenna,
though. Perhaps this should be classified Friendly Fire?

--
Jake Livni ja...@bony1.bony.com Ten years from now, George Bush will
American-Occupied New York have replaced Jimmy Carter as the
My opinions only - employer has no opinions. standard of a failed President.

Mike Magil

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Jun 16, 1993, 8:56:17 AM6/16/93
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jae...@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:
>In article <19930615....@almaden.ibm.com> mel...@vnet.IBM.COM (Mike Magil) writes:
>>jae...@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
>
>>>It was reported on National Public Radio today that a group of Israeli
>>>and Palestinian physicians reported recently (presumably in Vienna this
>>>morning) that of the 10,000 Palestinians in Israeli jails, 1/4 to 1/2
>>>were subject to torture. The group condemned the state of Israel for

>>>this practice of systematic torture.
>
>>Well that's all fine and dandy! Accusing a regime of torturing prisoners is
>>VERY easy to do however proving it is a completely different story! What/who
>>were these physicians sources to base their charge? Were the alleged
>>"tortured" prisoners the primary source? If so, how does one consider these
>>people (prisoners) to be credible? I have very serious doubts about the
>>accuracy of the above statistic for many reasons. I have just scratched the
>>surface!
>
>
>Fine. Seeing as National Public Radio is one of the most reputable
>sources on events in Israel I trust their reports since I know them
>to be a reliable source of information. If you're really so doubtful
>I'd suggest getting in touch with them and asking them for *their*
>sources. I simply reported what I heard and where I heard it.

Reputable?! My ass! The NPR (aka National Palestinian Radio) is world-
renowned for its bias. If you want reputable try the BBC radio service!
And as of yet I still haven't heard the above report anywhere.

Gregg Jaeger

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Jun 16, 1993, 1:29:04 PM6/16/93
to
In article <19930616....@almaden.ibm.com> mel...@vnet.IBM.COM (Mike Magil) writes:
>jae...@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:

>>In article <19930615....@almaden.ibm.com> mel...@vnet.IBM.COM (Mike Magil) writes:

>>>jae...@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)

>>>>It was reported on National Public Radio today that a group of Israeli
>>>>and Palestinian physicians reported recently (presumably in Vienna this
>>>>morning) that of the 10,000 Palestinians in Israeli jails, 1/4 to 1/2
>>>>were subject to torture. The group condemned the state of Israel for
>>>>this practice of systematic torture.

>>>Well that's all fine and dandy! Accusing a regime of torturing prisoners is
>>>VERY easy to do however proving it is a completely different story! What/who
>>>were these physicians sources to base their charge? Were the alleged
>>>"tortured" prisoners the primary source? If so, how does one consider these
>>>people (prisoners) to be credible? I have very serious doubts about the
>>>accuracy of the above statistic for many reasons. I have just scratched the
>>>surface!


>>Fine. Seeing as National Public Radio is one of the most reputable
>>sources on events in Israel I trust their reports since I know them
>>to be a reliable source of information. If you're really so doubtful
>>I'd suggest getting in touch with them and asking them for *their*
>>sources. I simply reported what I heard and where I heard it.


>Reputable?! My ass! The NPR (aka National Palestinian Radio) is world-
>renowned for its bias. If you want reputable try the BBC radio service!
>And as of yet I still haven't heard the above report anywhere.


Your intellect is showing :)

I have heard NPR called JPR myself. It is quite amazing that NPR having
something like 50% percent of their employees Jewish and a very
significant number of broadcasts about Jewish issues. For example, they
broadcast the opening of the Holocaust Memorial live including speaches
by Israeli government officials. The also have quite obviously
pro-Israel Jewish correspondents in Jerusalem. I find your
characterization of NPR rediculous.

As for the BBC, they reported this morning how Israel denies citizenship
to Jews who accept the prophethood of Christ.

Gregg

Adam L. Schwartz

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Jun 16, 1993, 5:28:10 PM6/16/93
to
In article <123...@bu.edu> jae...@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:
>In article <19930616....@almaden.ibm.com> mel...@vnet.IBM.COM (Mike Magil) writes:
>
>>Reputable?! My ass! The NPR (aka National Palestinian Radio) is world-
>>renowned for its bias. If you want reputable try the BBC radio service!
>>And as of yet I still haven't heard the above report anywhere.
>
>I have heard NPR called JPR myself. It is quite amazing that NPR having
>something like 50% percent of their employees Jewish

This is supposed to prove that NPR is pro-Israel? Some of Israel's
most outspoken critics are Jewish. We could go into a long discussion
of what motivates these Jews but in any case, it's quite racist to
claim that NPR is pro-Israel because 50% of their employees are
Jewish. I think the Adam Shostack's posting of the CAMERA
investigation of NPR is quite a bit more convincing than your racism.


>and a very
>significant number of broadcasts about Jewish issues. For example, they
>broadcast the opening of the Holocaust Memorial live including speaches
>by Israeli government officials.

So?!? This makes NPR pro-Israel? How does broadcasting the opening
of the Holocaust museum refute NPR's record of anti-Israel reporting?


>The also have quite obviously
>pro-Israel Jewish correspondents in Jerusalem.

Obvious to someone who's fixated against Israel. Not obvious to
anyone else.


>I find your
>characterization of NPR rediculous.
>

I find your characterization ridiculous and blatantly bigoted.


-Adam Schwartz

Adam Shostack

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Jun 16, 1993, 5:50:23 PM6/16/93
to
Gregg Jaeger (jae...@buphy.bu.edu), (in article <123...@bu.edu>) wrote:

>I have heard NPR called JPR myself. It is quite amazing that NPR having
>something like 50% percent of their employees Jewish and a very
>significant number of broadcasts about Jewish issues. For example, they
>broadcast the opening of the Holocaust Memorial live including speaches
>by Israeli government officials. The also have quite obviously
>pro-Israel Jewish correspondents in Jerusalem. I find your
>characterization of NPR rediculous.

You have yet to respond to the quite substatative charges of
bias leveled by CAMERA which I posted here, but I was wondering if you
could provide us with the names of those Jewish correspondants in
Jerusalem who are pro-Israel?

The fact that they have a large number of Jewish employees is
irrelevant. Further, I'd like to ask where you got this juicy tidbit
of information? Does NPR end its reports with "reported on by David
King, a Jew, and Mike Smith, a Protestant?"

The fact that they, like CNN, broadcast the opening of the
Holocaust memorial, is irrelevant to their mideast coverage.

I, along with CAMERA, believe that NPRs mideast coverage is
biased. I ask you to provide some honest evidence of NPR's alleged
pro-Israel stance, instead of anecdotes.

Adam


--
Adam Shostack ad...@das.harvard.edu

Politics. From the greek "poly," meaning many, and ticks, a small,
annoying bloodsucker.

Adam Shostack

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Jun 16, 1993, 6:43:12 PM6/16/93
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Adam L. Schwartz (ad...@bellini.berkeley.edu), (in article <1993Jun16.2...@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>) wrote:

>Jewish. I think the Adam Shostack's posting of the CAMERA

Wow! I've achieved definite article status! :)

Joachim Martillo

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Jun 17, 1993, 1:38:56 PM6/17/93
to

Employing a large number of Jews and being pro-Israel are not
obviously equivalent.

As for bias, I would not necessarily accuse the NPR of bias but as it
demonstrated during the Thomas hearings, the NPR definitely has a
political agenda and its reporters have neither much learning nor
intelligence. I am invariably offended by the NPR agenda relating to
Hispanics. I know that many Vietnamese in the USA are offended by
Hockenberry's simple minded attempts to portray the anti-Vietnam war
movement as a movement of unblemished good while he has characterized
those who supported resistance to communist totalitarian expansionism
as partisans of unmitigated evil. In fact the anti-War movement was
mostly characterized by cowardice and a racist willingness to abandon
a non-white population to communist brutality.

>As for the BBC, they reported this morning how Israel denies citizenship
>to Jews who accept the prophethood of Christ.

And by the way, if this issue is newsworthy, it really should be put
in proper context. One might ask whether Israeli practice is
exceptional. How would Saudi Arabia treate a citizen who converted to
Christianity? Do non-Abrahamic ethno-religious groups engage in such
stupidities?

>Gregg

Joachim Carlo Santos Martillo Ajami

P.S. Just remember if reporters knew how to do something useful,
they would not be reporters.

Jake Livni

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Jun 17, 1993, 11:46:46 AM6/17/93
to
In article <123...@bu.edu> jae...@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:
>In article <19930616....@almaden.ibm.com> mel...@vnet.IBM.COM (Mike Magil) writes:

>>Reputable?! My ass! The NPR (aka National Palestinian Radio) is world-
>>renowned for its bias. If you want reputable try the BBC radio service!
>>And as of yet I still haven't heard the above report anywhere.

>I have heard NPR called JPR myself.

We are not surprised. People who hang around with the ARF-types will
hear the same about network television, the print media and Hollywood,
too.

>It is quite amazing that NPR having
>something like 50% percent of their employees Jewish and a very
>significant number of broadcasts about Jewish issues. For example, they
>broadcast the opening of the Holocaust Memorial live including speaches
>by Israeli government officials.

There are other Jewish groups and groups that call themselves "Jewish"
that are militantly opposed to a Jewish state. This is because such
variety of opinion among Jews is not met with the kind of murderous
suppression that is common in PLO circles.

There are even far right Hasidic extremists (a tiny minority of them)
who have teamed up with far left Communists in opposing a Jewish
government in Israel and supporting a PLO state.

That there are anti-Israel Jews at NPR is perfectly consistent with
the rest of reality and not at all surprising.

>The also have quite obviously
>pro-Israel Jewish correspondents in Jerusalem. I find your
>characterization of NPR rediculous.

Their Jerusalem corresepondent has a known bias against Zionism and is
supported by her management at NPR News in Washington.

>As for the BBC, they reported this morning how Israel denies citizenship
>to Jews who accept the prophethood of Christ.

Citizenship is not denied in this case but rather is not AUTOMATICALLY
GRANTED under the Law of Return. Others are free to apply for
citizenship under other Israeli laws. There are plenty of Christian
citizens of Israel. You have your facts all wrong.

As in your previous email to me, you continue to show a persistent
disregard for facts when they don't support your pet hatred. Kindly
take your hatred away and have a few home-made beers with Barfling and
leave us alone.

Gregg Jaeger

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Jun 17, 1993, 5:02:34 PM6/17/93
to
In article <C8rvt...@bony1.bony.com> ja...@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

>In article <123...@bu.edu> jae...@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:

>>In article <19930616....@almaden.ibm.com> mel...@vnet.IBM.COM (Mike Magil) writes:

>>>Reputable?! My ass! The NPR (aka National Palestinian Radio) is world-
>>>renowned for its bias. If you want reputable try the BBC radio service!
>>>And as of yet I still haven't heard the above report anywhere.

>>I have heard NPR called JPR myself.

>We are not surprised. People who hang around with the ARF-types will
>hear the same about network television, the print media and Hollywood,
>too.

Who is 'we'? I don't know any ARF-types, but am only telling you that
I have heard opinions diametrically opposed to the one Mr. "my ass"
refers to.


>>It is quite amazing that NPR having
>>something like 50% percent of their employees Jewish and a very
>>significant number of broadcasts about Jewish issues. For example, they
>>broadcast the opening of the Holocaust Memorial live including speaches
>>by Israeli government officials.

>There are other Jewish groups and groups that call themselves "Jewish"
>that are militantly opposed to a Jewish state. This is because such
>variety of opinion among Jews is not met with the kind of murderous
>suppression that is common in PLO circles.

Yeah, like you'd know all the Palestinians in the world. The PLO
has just as much diversity of opinion as exists in Israel. As
for murderous suppression, well the state of Israel is awfully good
as suppressing non-Jewish expression. In fact, the main reason the
PLO has such a bad wrap is that it, like Israel, accepts militants
(such as that moron Habbash) into its fold.


>There are even far right Hasidic extremists (a tiny minority of them)
>who have teamed up with far left Communists in opposing a Jewish
>government in Israel and supporting a PLO state.

>That there are anti-Israel Jews at NPR is perfectly consistent with
>the rest of reality and not at all surprising.

There are *all sorts* in NPR, which I think is great. You'd clearly
disagree.

>>The also have quite obviously
>>pro-Israel Jewish correspondents in Jerusalem. I find your
>>characterization of NPR rediculous.

>Their Jerusalem corresepondent has a known bias against Zionism and is
>supported by her management at NPR News in Washington.

It sure doesn't sound like it to me! Are you referring to Linda Gradstein?

>>As for the BBC, they reported this morning how Israel denies citizenship
>>to Jews who accept the prophethood of Christ.

>Citizenship is not denied in this case but rather is not AUTOMATICALLY
>GRANTED under the Law of Return. Others are free to apply for
>citizenship under other Israeli laws. There are plenty of Christian
>citizens of Israel. You have your facts all wrong.

Just reporting what the BBC (Mr. "my ass"'s authority) reported.
Perhaps the BBC is anti-Zionists as well.

>As in your previous email to me, you continue to show a persistent
>disregard for facts when they don't support your pet hatred. Kindly
>take your hatred away and have a few home-made beers with Barfling and
>leave us alone.

I have no idea what "barfling" is.

Sorry, I have no hatred for anything but persecution and torture.
Furthermore I don't drink, so that my mind remains clear.

Cheers,


Gregg

Gregg Jaeger

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Jun 17, 1993, 5:06:17 PM6/17/93
to

>>In article <19930616....@almaden.ibm.com> mel...@vnet.IBM.COM (Mike Magil) writes:

>>>Reputable?! My ass! The NPR (aka National Palestinian Radio) is world-
>>>renowned for its bias. If you want reputable try the BBC radio service!
>>>And as of yet I still haven't heard the above report anywhere.

Oh, and by the way, the BBC made an almost identical report the
following day, including the personal testimony of an Arab BBC
and New York Times correspondent that Israel mistakenly tried
to deport as a "Hamas activist" along with those 415 guys sitting
in Lebanon after being deported and shot at. The BBC correspondent
was Alex Brody.


Gregg

Adam Shostack

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Jun 17, 1993, 6:22:06 PM6/17/93
to
Gregg Jaeger (jae...@buphy.bu.edu), (in article <123...@bu.edu>) wrote:
>In article <C8rvt...@bony1.bony.com> ja...@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

>>In article <123...@bu.edu> jae...@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:

>>>In article <19930616....@almaden.ibm.com> mel...@vnet.IBM.COM (Mike Magil) writes:

>>There are other Jewish groups and groups that call themselves "Jewish"
>>that are militantly opposed to a Jewish state. This is because such
>>variety of opinion among Jews is not met with the kind of murderous
>>suppression that is common in PLO circles.

>Yeah, like you'd know all the Palestinians in the world. The PLO
>has just as much diversity of opinion as exists in Israel.

Really? You can name for me a well known PLO member who
claims that the PLO is "Nazi-like" in its use of force? PLO members
who call for a Jewish state in Israel? PLO members who advocate
non-violent soolutions?

(Israel Shahak calls Israel Nazi-like, Neturai Karta, a
religious group, calls for the dissolution of Israel, and its
replacement by an Arab state, and Shalom Achsav used to hold
non-violent protests. Thats all on the Israeli left wing. Can you
produce 1/2 the range of opinion within the PLO?)

> As for murderous suppression, well the state of Israel is awfully
>good as suppressing non-Jewish expression.

Thats why the 800 000 Israeli arabs have three parties with ~10
Keneset seats?


> In fact, the main reason the PLO has such a bad wrap is that it,
>like Israel, accepts militants (such as that moron Habbash) into its
>fold.

Shit, and I thought it was because of 29 years of killing
civilains, children, blowing up airliners, machine gunning
kindergardens, etc.

When Ben Gurion became Prime Minister, he told the Irgun that
they would be disarmed, and disarmed them.

>>>The also have quite obviously
>>>pro-Israel Jewish correspondents in Jerusalem. I find your
>>>characterization of NPR rediculous.

>>Their Jerusalem corresepondent has a known bias against Zionism and is
>>supported by her management at NPR News in Washington.

>It sure doesn't sound like it to me! Are you referring to Linda Gradstein?

Yes. Did you even read the CAMERA report I posted on NPR? If
not, I'll be happy to mail you a copy.

MICHAEL MAGIL

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Jun 17, 1993, 7:29:25 PM6/17/93
to
In article <1993Jun17.2...@das.harvard.edu> ad...@das.harvard.edu writes:
>>It sure doesn't sound like it to me! Are you referring to Linda Gradstein?
>
> Yes. Did you even read the CAMERA report I posted on NPR? If
>not, I'll be happy to mail you a copy.
>
>Adam

Of course not! Doing so would only prove to himself the raving bigot he
really is! Even if you mail it to him it will be discarded immediately.
Racists use their own "reliable" sources like Ernst Zundel!

Mike.

--
Michael MI KE MIK EMIK EMI K "Money can't buy happiness
Zion M I K E M I K E M but it certainly will get
Magil M I K E MIKEM I KEM I K you a better class of
M I K E M IKE M IKE MIKE memories." - Ronald Reagan

Duc Doan

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Jun 18, 1993, 10:11:43 AM6/18/93
to
In article <C8s10...@world.std.com> t...@world.std.com (Joachim Martillo) writes:
[stuff deleted]

>
>As for bias, I would not necessarily accuse the NPR of bias but as it
>demonstrated during the Thomas hearings, the NPR definitely has a
>political agenda and its reporters have neither much learning nor
>intelligence. I am invariably offended by the NPR agenda relating to
>Hispanics. I know that many Vietnamese in the USA are offended by
>Hockenberry's simple minded attempts to portray the anti-Vietnam war
>movement as a movement of unblemished good while he has characterized
>those who supported resistance to communist totalitarian expansionism
>as partisans of unmitigated evil. In fact the anti-War movement was
>mostly characterized by cowardice and a racist willingness to abandon
>a non-white population to communist brutality.
>
I dont speak for any Vietnamese but myself and my family, however, you are
very correct in stating the garbage in Hockenberry's statement. IMHO, the
anit-Vietnam war movement is not only anti the Vietname war but all wars.
It is lead mostly by cowards, draft dodgers, pot smoking hippies and sadly
but truly our current president(not Hillary, it's Bill!). Hockenberry can go to
hell if he thinks anti-opression and pro-democracy are evil.

Duc Doan

Jake Livni

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Jun 18, 1993, 2:56:20 PM6/18/93
to
In article <123...@bu.edu> jae...@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:

That name sounds familiar.
Have I heard it on NPR (JPR to you)?
Do they share stories and editorial Points of View?
Do they only share stories that represent their editorial POV?

Jake Livni

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Jun 18, 1993, 3:32:48 PM6/18/93
to
In article <123...@bu.edu> jae...@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger) writes:
>In article <C8rvt...@bony1.bony.com> ja...@bony1.bony.com (Jake Livni) writes:

>>We are not surprised. People who hang around with the ARF-types will
>>hear the same about network television, the print media and Hollywood,
>>too.

>Who is 'we'? I don't know any ARF-types, but am only telling you that

You have just disposed of one understandable excuse for your
non-factual, hate-mongering postings. So what excuse WILL you come up
with?

>I have heard opinions diametrically opposed to the one Mr. "my ass"
>refers to.

Don't try and backtrack now. You posted it because you agreed with
it. I didn't hear you say "NPR is called JPR but I don't see any
evidence for such a term." I hear lots of stupid opinions but I don't
bother posting them.

>>There are other Jewish groups and groups that call themselves "Jewish"
>>that are militantly opposed to a Jewish state. This is because such
>>variety of opinion among Jews is not met with the kind of murderous
>>suppression that is common in PLO circles.

>Yeah, like you'd know all the Palestinians in the world. The PLO
>has just as much diversity of opinion as exists in Israel.

In most democratic governments, diverse opinions form into things
called Opposition Parties. In the PLO, they form something called
Splinter Groups. Lebanon is a dramatic example of PLO "diversity of
opinion" in action. Have we already forgotten?

Your claim that the PLO is home to as much diversity of opinion as
Israeli society would be laughable if not for the thousands killed at
Palestinean hands in recent years.

>As
>for murderous suppression, well the state of Israel is awfully good
>as suppressing non-Jewish expression.

That's why there are no remaining churches or mosques in Israel.
What? There ARE?

Perhaps you are confused with there not being any remaining synagogues
on Arab-controlled "Holy Muslim Soil" (tm), instead?

As usual, you have your facts back to front.
But don't let that change your mind.

>In fact, the main reason the
>PLO has such a bad wrap is that it, like Israel, accepts militants
>(such as that moron Habbash) into its fold.

You are in error.

Dr. George Habash, a Palestinen doctor of medicine and warlord of one
of the most violent and murderous PLO splinter groups, is persona
non-grata in Israel. By contrast, he is a welcome hero in several
Arab states.

The main reason the PLO has such a bad reputation is that they deserve
it as a result of their own actions.

>>That there are anti-Israel Jews at NPR is perfectly consistent with
>>the rest of reality and not at all surprising.

>There are *all sorts* in NPR, which I think is great. You'd clearly
>disagree.

There ARE all sorts at NPR, though they mostly range from left to
far-left. However, at *NPR News*, they follow the company line. This
is why they are starting to lose credibility.

>>Their Jerusalem corresepondent has a known bias against Zionism and is
>>supported by her management at NPR News in Washington.

>It sure doesn't sound like it to me! Are you referring to Linda Gradstein?

I see that you are familiar with the guilty party. Even though she
primarily covers the WB & G, with hardly any reports on Arab attacks
on Israelis elsewhere in Israel, she is called the "Middle East
Correspondent". Kinda like someone who never leaves Manhattan being
called the US correspondent.

>>>As for the BBC, they reported this morning how Israel denies citizenship
>>>to Jews who accept the prophethood of Christ.
>
>>Citizenship is not denied in this case but rather is not AUTOMATICALLY
>>GRANTED under the Law of Return. Others are free to apply for
>>citizenship under other Israeli laws. There are plenty of Christian
>>citizens of Israel. You have your facts all wrong.
>
>Just reporting what the BBC (Mr. "my ass"'s authority) reported.
>Perhaps the BBC is anti-Zionists as well.

I didn't hear the BBC report. There are 2 possibilities:
1) The BBC screwed up on the facts or reported it in a misleading
manner (a distinct possibility).
2) YOU screwed up on the facts.

I wouldn't be surprised if the BBC was somewhat misleading and you
lapped it up as "evidence" on how evil and anti-democratic the
Israelis are and how they should make way for the PLO to introduce
"diversity of opinion" to the Middle East. It is precisely low-IQ
unfortunates like yourself who are in greatest danger of biased
reporting.

>>As in your previous email to me, you continue to show a persistent
>>disregard for facts when they don't support your pet hatred. Kindly
>>take your hatred away and have a few home-made beers with Barfling and
>>leave us alone.

>Sorry, I have no hatred for anything but persecution and torture.

I suggest that you try and bring your "diversity of opinion" on this
matter to the PLO. You can expect an especially warm welcome!

>Furthermore I don't drink, so that my mind remains clear.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Gregg

"Cheers"? Kind of a strange way for a non-drinker to sign off...

Jake Livni

unread,
Jun 18, 1993, 3:46:11 PM6/18/93
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In article <C8s10...@world.std.com> t...@world.std.com (Joachim Martillo) writes:

[...]

>As for bias, I would not necessarily accuse the NPR of bias but as it
>demonstrated during the Thomas hearings, the NPR definitely has a
>political agenda and its reporters have neither much learning nor
>intelligence. I am invariably offended by the NPR agenda relating to
>Hispanics. I know that many Vietnamese in the USA are offended by
>Hockenberry's simple minded attempts to portray the anti-Vietnam war
>movement as a movement of unblemished good while he has characterized
>those who supported resistance to communist totalitarian expansionism
>as partisans of unmitigated evil. In fact the anti-War movement was
>mostly characterized by cowardice and a racist willingness to abandon
>a non-white population to communist brutality.

It is precisely my comparing NPR reports with direct knowledge I have
that makes me leery of the rest of their reporting.

When I hear them put a very strong slant on a story, and then keep
that slant on for all subsequent stories on that topic for months on
end, I have to assume that they haven't simply made a random error but
that they have a definite and deliberate agenda.

If they have an obvious agenda on one issue which I am quite familiar
with, they may well have agendas on other topics, as well, and I might
not be knowledgable enough to recognize it. This is why I now
discount NPR News reports; they are approaching the generally low
level of the rest of American info-tainment.

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