How to Do Islamic Conversion in Public Schools
Lisa R.
http://www.dawanet.com/methods/publicschool.dawapublic.asp
Lisa
Dan Cannon
"Lisa R." <mand...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7aa8d371.0307...@posting.google.com...
When someon tries to sneakily convert you, yell out: "MUHAMMED IS A
CHILD-MOLESTOR".
The ruckus as a result will draw attention of a mile around to the fact that
someone tried to proselytise.
abu mohammed
Lisa R. wrote:
> You have to be a little bit sneaky about it. I got this URL from DawaNet.
please explain what is so sneaky. "carry a phamplet"? Wear Moslem clothes? Know your
religion? Speak openly about you faith?
I just do not get it.
>
> http://www.dawanet.com/methods/publicschool.dawapublic.asp
>
>
>
>
>
> Lisa
>
Lisa R.
Here's an excerpt from the site:
"Students are routinely exposed in their classroom to new information
and opinions, hence they tend to be more receptive to new beliefs and
ideas.
Schools are therefore fertile grounds where the seeds of Islam can be
sowed inside the hearts of non-Muslim students. Muslim students should
take ample advantage of this opportunity and present to their
schoolmates the beautiful beliefs of Islam."
Now let me ask you---if Christians in Muslim schools were taking
advantage of the pupils' naivete so as to sow the seed of Christianity
inside the hearts of Muslim students, would you say nothing?
I think that you would not. Anyhow, the whole thing strikes me as
somewhat sleazy and opportunistic.
Lisa
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lisa
> >
rmp
"Blondes Gaulloises" <blondes_g...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:LdoNa.6713$eF3.9...@news20.bellglobal.com...
> "Dan Cannon" <canno...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:JVkNa.3418$Z9.1...@pollux.casema.net...
> > someone tried to >
> >
>
> Imagine that somebody burns your home. Or rapes your sister. Or poisons
your
> water. Imagine someone kills your brother, maims your best friend, screw
> your wife, blows your mother's head off, etc. Imagine that someone, say,
> occupies your country. Maybe the same someone does several of these
things,
> and more. You'd be furious, wouldn't you?
>
>
Blondes Gaulloises
To HELL with the babykilling US troops!
Bring the filthy bastards home -
to face war-crimes trials
"Every time we do something, you [Shimon Peres] tell me America will do this
and will do that... I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry
about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America,
and the Americans know it."
- Ariel Sharon
Israeli Prime Minister, homicidal psychopath
Jewish Mafia member
Knesset, Tel Aviv, October 3, 2001
http://www.americanstateterrorism.com/AmericanStateTerrorism.html
"Lisa R." <mand...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:7aa8d371.03070...@posting.google.com...
Lisa R.
> Support US troops?
>
> To HELL with the babykilling US troops!
>
> Bring the filthy bastards home -
> to face war-crimes trials
More of the usual. Jews did 9-11. Israelis were dancing and cheering
when the towers came down.
Whatever.
Lisa
abu mohammed
Lisa R. wrote:
> abu mohammed <spamless> wrote in message news:<3f04ccb5_1@newsfeed>...
>
>>Lisa R. wrote:
>>
>>
>>>You have to be a little bit sneaky about it. I got this URL from DawaNet.
>>>
>>
>>please explain what is so sneaky. "carry a phamplet"? Wear Moslem clothes? Know your
>>religion? Speak openly about you faith?
>>
>>I just do not get it.
>>
>>
>>>http://www.dawanet.com/methods/publicschool.dawapublic.asp
>>>
>
> Here's an excerpt from the site:
>
>
> "Students are routinely exposed in their classroom to new information
> and opinions, hence they tend to be more receptive to new beliefs and
> ideas.
so, they suggest you talk to people with an open mind... ya that is sneaky.
>
> Schools are therefore fertile grounds where the seeds of Islam can be
> sowed inside the hearts of non-Muslim students. Muslim students should
> take ample advantage of this opportunity and present to their
> schoolmates the beautiful beliefs of Islam."
Chat with your friends, tell them about Allah.
>
> Now let me ask you---if Christians in Muslim schools were taking
> advantage of the pupils' naivete so as to sow the seed of Christianity
> inside the hearts of Muslim students, would you say nothing?
In my school in LA, there was a 'passion play' every Christmas. Every Easter we heard the
same crap about 'good friday' and 'easter sunday', and WHY it was a holiday. On
Wednesday, all the kids were in if they had a spot of 'ash' on um. My parents said NOTHING!
>
> I think that you would not. Anyhow, the whole thing strikes me as
> somewhat sleazy and opportunistic.
It strikes me that you got a BIG unjustified hate.
>
> Lisa
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Lisa
>>>
>>>
A Abdou
> Lisa R. wrote:
>
> > abu mohammed <spamless> wrote in message news:<3f04ccb5_1@newsfeed>...
> >
> >>Lisa R. wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>You have to be a little bit sneaky about it. I got this URL from DawaNet.
> >>>
> >>
> >>please explain what is so sneaky. "carry a phamplet"? Wear Moslem clothes? Know your
> >>religion? Speak openly about you faith?
> >>
> >>I just do not get it.
> >>
> >>
> >>>http://www.dawanet.com/methods/publicschool.dawapublic.asp
> >>>
> >
> > Here's an excerpt from the site:
> >
> >
> > "Students are routinely exposed in their classroom to new information
> > and opinions, hence they tend to be more receptive to new beliefs and
> > ideas.
>
>
> so, they suggest you talk to people with an open mind
And why is that?
>... ya that is sneaky.
Well that depends on your answer to my question! So your answer is?
> > Schools are therefore fertile grounds where the seeds of Islam can be
> > sowed inside the hearts of non-Muslim students. Muslim students should
> > take ample advantage of this opportunity and present to their
> > schoolmates the beautiful beliefs of Islam."
>
>
> Chat with your friends,
About what dear? Joining a cult?
>tell them about Allah.
Say Mr. Abu Mohammad: Is Allah the same God as the God of the Jews and
that of the Christians? And if he is the same one, why should you tell
them about Allah when he is also their god? Or do you want them to
join your specific cult?
> > Now let me ask you---if Christians in Muslim schools were taking
> > advantage of the pupils' naivete so as to sow the seed of Christianity
> > inside the hearts of Muslim students, would you say nothing?
>
>
> In my school in LA, there was a 'passion play' every Christmas.
Sir I also went to school in LA...what does your answer have to do
with the question that Lisa posed? And if you tell me that in schools
in LA Muslim kids are "invited" to Christianity you are a liar, and if
so why should Muslims "proselytise" their little cult?
Every Easter we heard the
> same crap about 'good friday' and 'easter sunday', and WHY it was a holiday.
Could it be because the majority of people in LA county are
Christians? And no one can stop you from not "hearing such crap" you
fool.
And if you dislike it that much why did you elect to live in LA or the
US for this matter? And you better have a good answer.
> On
> Wednesday, all the kids were in if they had a spot of 'ash' on um.
L*A*I*R.....My school was in West LA and we had many Iranian
kids....and no one had to have the "spot of ash" And if you have no
respect for others why should anyone have respect for you or for your
little cult sir?
> My parents said NOTHING!
Becuase it never happened. Shame on you Mr. Abu Mohammad. You are a
liar.
> > I think that you would not. Anyhow, the whole thing strikes me as
> > somewhat sleazy and opportunistic.
>
>
> It strikes me that you got a BIG unjustified hate.
And so are you Mr. Abu Mohammad.
Lisa R.
> Lisa R. wrote:
>
> > abu mohammed <spamless> wrote in message news:<3f04ccb5_1@newsfeed>...
> >
> >>Lisa R. wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>You have to be a little bit sneaky about it. I got this URL from DawaNet.
> >>>
> >>
> >>please explain what is so sneaky. "carry a phamplet"? Wear Moslem clothes? Know your
> >>religion? Speak openly about you faith?
> >>
> >>I just do not get it.
> >>
> >>
> >>>http://www.dawanet.com/methods/publicschool.dawapublic.asp
> >>>
> >
> > Here's an excerpt from the site:
> >
> >
> > "Students are routinely exposed in their classroom to new information
> > and opinions, hence they tend to be more receptive to new beliefs and
> > ideas.
>
>
> so, they suggest you talk to people with an open mind... ya that is sneaky.
This isn't comparative religion 101. Don't start lying to me. Your a
Muslim, and you damned well know the meaning of the word "Dawa."
By the way, did you know that bin Laden called upon Americans to
embrace Islam after 9-11? Read his "Letter to the American People."
> > Schools are therefore fertile grounds where the seeds of Islam can be
> > sowed inside the hearts of non-Muslim students. Muslim students should
> > take ample advantage of this opportunity and present to their
> > schoolmates the beautiful beliefs of Islam."
>
>
> Chat with your friends, tell them about Allah.
And be sure to tell them that the "Allah" of the Quran is the same
thing as the "Lord" of the New Testament, and the "Adonoi" of the Old
Testament.
And be sure to inform them that toleration, not conversion, is all
you're after.
> >
> > Now let me ask you---if Christians in Muslim schools were taking
> > advantage of the pupils' naivete so as to sow the seed of Christianity
> > inside the hearts of Muslim students, would you say nothing?
>
>
> In my school in LA, there was a 'passion play' every Christmas. Every Easter we heard the
> same crap about 'good friday' and 'easter sunday', and WHY it was a holiday. On
> Wednesday, all the kids were in if they had a spot of 'ash' on um. My parents said NOTHING!
I'm Jewish and I've sat through Christmas plays and found nothing
proselytizing about them.
The majority of this country is Christian, and they're entitled to
have their Christmas plays. As long as they don't propagandize
Christianity, try to destroy secularity, or make invidious
comparisons,it's fine.
But if they are hawking Christianity, then I'd just say that Islam and
Christianisty deserve each other.
> > I think that you would not. Anyhow, the whole thing strikes me as
> > somewhat sleazy and opportunistic.
>
>
> It strikes me that you got a BIG unjustified hate.
Not as long as Islam insists on dismantling secularity becoming
pre-eminent.
Lisa
> >
> > Lisa
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Lisa
> >>>
> >>>
abu mohammed
if I get something wrong, I am sorry I will try to make it right for you.
You said there were no passion plays in LA schools during the 1950s?
You said my parents did not think it was their place to stop Christen propaganda in
schools? did you know my dad?
I moved out of LA, damn good thing too. now you have to pay me a LOT of money to even go
there, I live in Carmel ca today. Perhaps someday you can take a vacation from the STINK
that is smell A and see my home town... and uh... bring lots of money.
I need not live in any foreign land because I am a citizen of the USA. A country where the
government has no official religion, so MY religion is OK here!
And lastly, yes, Allah is the same god as the god of the Jews. And I am sorry that so
many feel their prophet has more complete information than mine, but everybody has an opinion.
abu mohammed
Lisa R. wrote:
> abu mohammed <spamless> wrote in message news:<3f062890_4@newsfeed>...
>
>>Lisa R. wrote:
>>
>>
>>>abu mohammed <spamless> wrote in message news:<3f04ccb5_1@newsfeed>...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Lisa R. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>You have to be a little bit sneaky about it. I got this URL from DawaNet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>please explain what is so sneaky. "carry a phamplet"? Wear Moslem clothes? Know your
>>>>religion? Speak openly about you faith?
>>>>
>>>>I just do not get it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.dawanet.com/methods/publicschool.dawapublic.asp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>Here's an excerpt from the site:
>>>
>>>
>>>"Students are routinely exposed in their classroom to new information
>>>and opinions, hence they tend to be more receptive to new beliefs and
>>>ideas.
>>>
>>
>>so, they suggest you talk to people with an open mind... ya that is sneaky.
>>
>
> This isn't comparative religion 101. Don't start lying to me. Your a
> Muslim, and you damned well know the meaning of the word "Dawa."
Where do you get these 'shocking facts'? are you as pissed off about Jehovah witness too?
>
> By the way, did you know that bin Laden called upon Americans to
> embrace Islam after 9-11? Read his "Letter to the American People."
Good advise. I thing America would be a better place if more people became good moslems.
>
>
>>>Schools are therefore fertile grounds where the seeds of Islam can be
>>>sowed inside the hearts of non-Muslim students. Muslim students should
>>>take ample advantage of this opportunity and present to their
>>>schoolmates the beautiful beliefs of Islam."
>>>
>>
>>Chat with your friends, tell them about Allah.
>>
>
> And be sure to tell them that the "Allah" of the Quran is the same
> thing as the "Lord" of the New Testament, and the "Adonoi" of the Old
> Testament.
ya, one in the same. You would think Christens would like people talking about their God...
>
> And be sure to inform them that toleration, not conversion, is all
> you're after.
not at all... Conversion to Islam is the goal of spreading the word of islam. I readily
admit it!
>
>
>>>Now let me ask you---if Christians in Muslim schools were taking
>>>advantage of the pupils' naivete so as to sow the seed of Christianity
>>>inside the hearts of Muslim students, would you say nothing?
>>>
>>
>>In my school in LA, there was a 'passion play' every Christmas. Every Easter we heard the
>> same crap about 'good friday' and 'easter sunday', and WHY it was a holiday. On
>>Wednesday, all the kids were in if they had a spot of 'ash' on um. My parents said NOTHING!
>>
>
> I'm Jewish and I've sat through Christmas plays and found nothing
> proselytizing about them.
finally we find something to agree on,
>
> The majority of this country is Christian, and they're entitled to
> have their Christmas plays. As long as they don't propagandize
> Christianity, try to destroy secularity, or make invidious
> comparisons,it's fine.
What is it when my children are told by teachers about the supposed exploits of a
homosexual schizophrenic who lived in a 3rd world without any formal education? They
suggest it is OK for my kids to follow him!
>
> But if they are hawking Christianity, then I'd just say that Islam and
> Christianisty deserve each other.
>
>
>>>I think that you would not. Anyhow, the whole thing strikes me as
>>>somewhat sleazy and opportunistic.
>>>
>>
>>It strikes me that you got a BIG unjustified hate.
>>
>
> Not as long as Islam insists on dismantling secularity becoming
> pre-eminent.
Ok... I re phrase, you got a big unjustified hate against Islam! Do me a favor, go after
those Jehovah whitens guys, I am SOOO tired of them coming to my door! We can agree to
dislike them together!
>
> Lisa
>
>>>Lisa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Lisa
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
drahcir
>And lastly, yes, Allah is the same god as the god of the Jews.
That's weird. Why do you suppose He treats the jews so much better
than the muslims?
A Abdou
> I would love to respond to you... But I simply cannot follow your thread.
An editorial....I see.
Let me try...
> if I get something wrong, I am sorry I will try to make it right for you.
Mr. Abu Mohammad you do not have to "make it right for" me.
> You said there were no passion plays in LA schools during the 1950s?
Liar....where did I write in my post that "there was no passion plays
in LA school in the 1950's"
> You said my parents did not think it was their place to stop Christen propaganda in schools?
So Mr. Abu Muhammad the liar: Why did your parents not stop "christian
Propaganda" could it out of respect for the majority Christians in LA
county, or could it be that they wanted you to learn about others
religions? Or could it be that _it never happened_ and you are trying
to find someone to blame for your hate of others? What do you think
Sir?
> did you know my dad?
Are you talking about Mr. Abu Abu Mohammad?
> I moved out of LA, damn good thing too.
So blame LA or the dog or those nasty Christians. You have nothing
more to say. I see.
> now you have to pay me a LOT of money to even go
> there,
Good. LA has one less fool....
>I live in Carmel ca today. Perhaps someday you can take a vacation
from the STINK
> that is smell A and see my home town... and uh... bring lots of money.
Whatever dear.
> I need not live in any foreign land because I am a citizen of the USA. A country where the
> government has no official religion, so MY religion is OK here!
So respect others sir. Because if you do not, no one can respect you
or your little cult. Did you get it?
> And lastly, yes, Allah is the same god as the god of the Jews.
Is he the god of the Christians too? How about the Hindus and the
Buddhists? And how do you know that he is the god of the Jews? Big
words Mr. Abu Mohammad and no meaning. I do feel sorry for you.
> And I am sorry that so
> many feel their prophet has more complete information than mine, but everybody has an opinion.
And how did you reach that conclusion darling?
Lisa R.
> I would love to respond to you... But I simply cannot follow your thread. Let me try...
> if I get something wrong, I am sorry I will try to make it right for you.
>
> You said there were no passion plays in LA schools during the 1950s?
> You said my parents did not think it was their place to stop Christen propaganda in
> schools? did you know my dad?
>
>
> I moved out of LA, damn good thing too. now you have to pay me a LOT of money to even go
> there, I live in Carmel ca today. Perhaps someday you can take a vacation from the STINK
> that is smell A and see my home town... and uh... bring lots of money.
>
> I need not live in any foreign land because I am a citizen of the USA. A country where the
> government has no official religion, so MY religion is OK here!
That's right. The state (and the school system) have no official
religion, which is why Islam is OK here.
But the Islamicists don't believe in separation of mosque and state.
Some of them, moreover, want to spread Islam into other countries, and
make them officially Islamic.
I've already posted the remarks of some British Muslims and of
Hizb-ut-Tahrir.
After speaking with some Muslims in person and in this newsgroup, I
know that many Muslims think everyone should be Muslim.
> And lastly, yes, Allah is the same god as the god of the Jews. And I am sorry that so
> many feel their prophet has more complete information than mine, but everybody has an opinion.
Perhaps you respect the opinions of others, but some Muslims DON'T.
Lisa
Lisa R.
The better question is: why do Muslims spend so much time obsessively
loathing the very people who gave them their god?
Lisa
Sosa Escobar
Muslims don't think everyone should be Muslim. This is a very vague
statement - we belive Islam is the correct way. Therefore this belief means
we think it is better for everyone to be a believer to save yourself from
Hell. The same way Christians think. Whether you come to Islam it is done
out of your own free will - what Muslims think you should be is not the
issue. What you think is.
Sosa Escobar
Nobody gave us God. God was already there. Another vague statement which
is just as much confusing.
>
> Lisa
Lisa R.
> Lisa R. wrote:
>
> >>>>>You have to be a little bit sneaky about it. I got this URL from DawaNet.
> >>>>please explain what is so sneaky. "carry a phamplet"? Wear Moslem clothes? Know your
> >>>>religion? Speak openly about you faith?
> >>>>I just do not get it.
> >>>>>http://www.dawanet.com/methods/publicschool.dawapublic.asp
> >>>Here's an excerpt from the site:
> >>>"Students are routinely exposed in their classroom to new information
> >>>and opinions, hence they tend to be more receptive to new beliefs and
> >>>ideas.
> >>so, they suggest you talk to people with an open mind... ya that is sneaky.
> > This isn't comparative religion 101. Don't start lying to me. Your a
> > Muslim, and you damned well know the meaning of the word "Dawa."
> Where do you get these 'shocking facts'?
Muslim websites.
> are you as pissed off about Jehovah witness too?
No, because Jehovah's Witnesses don't belong to a massive,
oppositional
civilization. They're essentially impotent, whereas Muslims aren't.
> > By the way, did you know that bin Laden called upon Americans to
> > embrace Islam after 9-11? Read his "Letter to the American People."
> Good advise. I thing America would be a better place if more people became good moslems.
Thank you for admitting that Islam is a missionary religion.
> >>>Schools are therefore fertile grounds where the seeds of Islam can be
> >>>sowed inside the hearts of non-Muslim students. Muslim students should
> >>>take ample advantage of this opportunity and present to their
> >>>schoolmates the beautiful beliefs of Islam."
> >>Chat with your friends, tell them about Allah.
> > And be sure to tell them that the "Allah" of the Quran is the same
> > thing as the "Lord" of the New Testament, and the "Adonoi" of the Old
> > Testament.
> ya, one in the same. You would think Christens would like people talking about their God...
If it's the same god, then why bother to do dawa at all? After all,
according to you, we believe in the same god. Or are you implying
that the Quran is superior to the New Testament?
> > And be sure to inform them that toleration, not conversion, is all
> > you're after.
> not at all... Conversion to Islam is the goal of spreading the word of islam. I readily
> admit it!
ALLAH BE PRAISED! I'VE FINALLY FOUND AN HONEST MUSLIM!
> >>>Now let me ask you---if Christians in Muslim schools were taking
> >>>advantage of the pupils' naivete so as to sow the seed of Christianity
> >>>inside the hearts of Muslim students, would you say nothing?
> >>In my school in LA, there was a 'passion play' every Christmas. Every Easter we heard the
> >> same crap about 'good friday' and 'easter sunday', and WHY it was a holiday. On
> >>Wednesday, all the kids were in if they had a spot of 'ash' on um. My parents said NOTHING!
> > I'm Jewish and I've sat through Christmas plays and found nothing
> > proselytizing about them.
>
>
> finally we find something to agree on,
> > The majority of this country is Christian, and they're entitled to
> > have their Christmas plays. As long as they don't propagandize
> > Christianity, try to destroy secularity, or make invidious
> > comparisons,it's fine.
>
>
> What is it when my children are told by teachers about the supposed exploits of a
> homosexual schizophrenic who lived in a 3rd world without any formal education? They
> suggest it is OK for my kids to follow him!
Who would THAT be?
> > But if they are hawking Christianity, then I'd just say that Islam and
> > Christianisty deserve each other.
> >>>I think that you would not. Anyhow, the whole thing strikes me as
> >>>somewhat sleazy and opportunistic.
> >>It strikes me that you got a BIG unjustified hate.
> > Not as long as Islam insists on dismantling secularity becoming
> > pre-eminent.
> Ok... I re phrase, you got a big unjustified hate against Islam! Do me a favor, go after
> those Jehovah whitens guys, I am SOOO tired of them coming to my door! We can agree to
> dislike them together!
Why should I hate whom you tell me to hate? Who the hell are you
anyways---the Queen of the May?
Bugger off, missionary.
Lisa
Lisa R.
Perhaps to you, and Muslims who think like you, but many Muslims think
that Islam without a jihad and an ever expanding Islamic state is no
Islam at all.
Very alarmingly, a significant minority of European Muslims are
rejecting the secular state governments of Europe. They have made it
quite clear that they have no use for multiculturalism, equality, or
democracy. Here's what one British Muslim wrote:
"This concerted effort to slot Islam into the model of the
multicultural society where all cultures are equal is misleading. In
fact the notion that the concepts of democracy, freedom and human
rights are universal values shared by all cultures is not true for any
culture. Neither is it true that these concepts are the superior
concepts - rather they are the degenerate concepts that are leading to
degenerate behaviour in western societies."
I think that the West is in trouble.
Lisa
Sosa Escobar
Islam is not solely about Jihad and ever expanding conquest! Yes, Muslims
want to re-instate an Islamic state but that state is to incorporate all the
Muslim countries in the world at the moment. Yes they may have to be a war
fought to re-instate this Islamic state - but your statement that there is
no Islam without jihad is utter rubbish.
>
> Very alarmingly, a significant minority of European Muslims are
> rejecting the secular state governments of Europe. They have made it
> quite clear that they have no use for multiculturalism, equality, or
> democracy. Here's what one British Muslim wrote:
>
>
> "This concerted effort to slot Islam into the model of the
> multicultural society where all cultures are equal is misleading. In
> fact the notion that the concepts of democracy, freedom and human
> rights are universal values shared by all cultures is not true for any
> culture. Neither is it true that these concepts are the superior
> concepts - rather they are the degenerate concepts that are leading to
> degenerate behaviour in western societies."
>
> I think that the West is in trouble.
And what British Muslim was this? And the quote says nothing about Muslims
rejecting a secular state government in Europe either but is a general
statement saying that all cultures do not have a universal value in regards
to democracy, freedom and human rights.
I will make you aware that Islam is not a culture it is a religion. Don't
mix them both up.
Where have Muslims stated they reject secular state governments of Europe?
There are many Muslims in Europe and the majority of them are socially
accepted and also live peacefully within the country. Where are you quoting
this stuff from?
>
> Lisa
Lisa R.
Not "solely", just "fundamentally."
> Yes, Muslims
> want to re-instate an Islamic state but that state is to incorporate all the
> Muslim countries in the world at the moment.
Quite true. The Muslim countries must be incorporated into the
Caliphate before the kufr countries are.
Have you ever thought that trying to subvert other peoples' countries
will get Muslims annihilated?
> Yes they may have to be a war
> fought to re-instate this Islamic state - but your statement that there is
> no Islam without jihad is utter rubbish.
There is both invitation and jihad. And if persuasion doesn't work,
violence will.
Or at least, that's what you think.
> > Very alarmingly, a significant minority of European Muslims are
> > rejecting the secular state governments of Europe. They have made it
> > quite clear that they have no use for multiculturalism, equality, or
> > democracy. Here's what one British Muslim wrote:
> >
> >
> > "This concerted effort to slot Islam into the model of the
> > multicultural society where all cultures are equal is misleading. In
> > fact the notion that the concepts of democracy, freedom and human
> > rights are universal values shared by all cultures is not true for any
> > culture. Neither is it true that these concepts are the superior
> > concepts - rather they are the degenerate concepts that are leading to
> > degenerate behaviour in western societies."
> >
> > I think that the West is in trouble.
>
> And what British Muslim was this? And the quote says nothing about Muslims
> rejecting a secular state government in Europe either but is a general
> statement saying that all cultures do not have a universal value in regards
> to democracy, freedom and human rights.
The writer speaks for many British Muslims, who have rejected
multiculturalism's message of equality under secular law. He embraces
the political side of Islam, which calls for an Islamic state, with
law based on a sovereign Quran.
The message is that, if Muslims are to continue to live in Britain,
the state must become Islamic. The letter appeared in Khilafa.com.
You know what the Khilafa is, right?
> I will make you aware that Islam is not a culture it is a religion. Don't
> mix them both up.
>
> Where have Muslims stated they reject secular state governments of Europe?
> There are many Muslims in Europe and the majority of them are socially
> accepted and also live peacefully within the country. Where are you quoting
> this stuff from?
Khilafa.com. Straight from the horse's mouth.
Lisa
Sosa Escobar
Not fundamentally either.
>
> > Yes, Muslims
> > want to re-instate an Islamic state but that state is to incorporate all
the
> > Muslim countries in the world at the moment.
>
> Quite true. The Muslim countries must be incorporated into the
> Caliphate before the kufr countries are.
>
> Have you ever thought that trying to subvert other peoples' countries
> will get Muslims annihilated?
Why the generalisation? Whos trying to subvert whom, I believe America have
a great track record of subverting countries. Did America every think this
may get them killed.
>
> > Yes they may have to be a war
> > fought to re-instate this Islamic state - but your statement that there
is
> > no Islam without jihad is utter rubbish.
>
> There is both invitation and jihad. And if persuasion doesn't work,
> violence will.
>
> Or at least, that's what you think.
How do you know what I think? If there is an invitation for an Islamic
state then there would be no fighting. You really need to re-evaluate your
meaning of Jihad as I don't think you fully know the correct meaning.
The personal opionins of one British Muslim don't reflect the statements by
every Muslim. Also you have only quoted one paragraph instead of the whole
text so how would I have nay idea what the quoter is trying to say? Muslims
agree that an Islamic state should be created, once created you would see
similar migrations of Muslims over to the Islamic state as Jews to Israel.
Britian will never be a Islamic country as it is founded on Christianity -
and to say Muslims can only live in Islamic countries is an incorrect view.
>
> > I will make you aware that Islam is not a culture it is a religion.
Don't
> > mix them both up.
> >
> > Where have Muslims stated they reject secular state governments of
Europe?
> > There are many Muslims in Europe and the majority of them are socially
> > accepted and also live peacefully within the country. Where are you
quoting
> > this stuff from?
>
> Khilafa.com. Straight from the horse's mouth.
You didn't answer my question.
>
>
> Lisa
jackkincaid
> http://www.dawanet.com/methods/publicschool.dawapublic.asp
>
Dawa is Muslim missionary work. As long as it goes on there is no
moral restriction on American evangelist churches spending $billions
on hospitals and schools (with chapels, naturally) all over the former
Christian lands of the middle east and north Africa.
As long as Dawa goes on there is nothing stopping Buddhists,
Christians and Sikhs converting Muslims in southern Asia, and nothing
stopping Jewish conversions of Palestinians - as an alternative to
return of land.
Of course Dawa doesn't have to continue. Seems to me the choice lies
elsewhere.
TonyaK911
>
> http://www.dawanet.com/methods/publicschool.dawapublic.asp
>
> Lisa
Lisa,
That site has been apparently taken off by those who'd like to keep
their little secrets close to the vest.
If anyone has the contents of that post available, please re-post it
for all to see.
Thanx.
TK9
TonyaK911
> Where have Muslims stated they reject secular state governments of Europe?
> There are many Muslims in Europe and the majority of them are socially
> accepted and also live peacefully within the country. Where are you quoting
> this stuff from?
"Abu Qatada's message was read out by Omar Mohammed Bakri Fostok, the
leader of the al-Muhajiroun group which organised the meeting. The
group has been implicated in sending volunteers to fight with the
Taliban and other hardline forces. Fostok has said that he wanted
Britain to become an Islamic state and has endorsed the use of
violence."
- http://observer.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4461140,00.html
'If Islamic state rises, we will be its army'
"The West will never 'reach the level of Islam,' and Western society
will be 'transformed' through an 'external or cultural invasion' by
Islam, according to two Islamic leaders in Great Britain.
In recent interviews with the London-based daily Al-Hayat,
Egyptian-born Sheik Abu Hamza, imam of the Finsbury Park Mosque and
head of the Ansar Al-Shari'ah organization; and Syrian-born Sheik Omar
Bakri, founder and leader of the Islamic Religious Court in London and
head of the Al-Muhajiroun Islamist Organization, predicted Western
civilization and law would eventually succumb to Islam. The
interviews, translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute,
provide insights into how Islamic leaders attempt to use Western-style
freedoms and laws to accomplish their goal of spreading the Islamic
faith." - http://english.pravda.ru/columnists/2002/08/13/34419.html
Ayatollah Mohammad Baqir al-Hakim promptly called for Iraq to become
an Islamic state. - The Hindu, Online edition of India's National
Newspaper. Sunday, May 11, 2003.
"The trial of Islamic fundamentalist cleric Abu Bakar Bashir, who has
been charged with treason, opened in Jakarta yesterday .... a team of
prosecutors read out the 25-page indictment, which alleged that Bashir
was the mastermind behind a treasonable conspiracy aimed at toppling
the government and establishing an Islamic state."
- http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/apr2003/bash-a24.shtml
Abul A'la Mawdudi, founder of the Jamaat-i Islami in India, have
argued that Islam is the very antithesis of secular Western democracy
based solely on the sovereignty of the people. - Abul A'la Mawdudi, A
Political Theory of Islam.
Sayyid Qutb, a leading traditionalist theoretician of the Muslim
Brotherhood, objected to the idea of popular sovereignty altogether:
Qutb believed that "the Islamic state must be based on the Quranic
principle of consultation or shurah [on the interpretation of
Shari'a], and that the Islamic law or Shari'a is so complete a legal
and moral system that no further legislation is possible or
necessary." - quoted in Hudson, "After the Gulf War," p. 436. For more
on Qutb's views on Islam, see John L. Esposito, ed., Voices of
Resurgent Islam (New York: Oxford University Press, 1983).
I suggest you also read various statements made by fundamentalist
militant groups like the Egyptian al-Gama', Algeria's Islamic
Salvation Front (FIS), etc. And it's not just the fundamentalist
fringe. Even the appearance of political parties and formal groups and
associations in the Middle East by itself does not necessarily mean a
fundamental move toward democracy by state or society. The
augmentation of political parties in the Muslim world may be more a
sign of the states' adjusting to pressure from Islamic groups and
their allies than a genuine political opening for democratic changes.
For example, in Iran the ruling religious elite affirmed the
sovereignty of the people, but despite this, the new elite has been
reluctant to share power with its political opposition. Although the
formalities of a democratic state are in place (e.g., elections and
debates), the people remain politically and economically without much
functional power. What civil society there was in Iran is fading,
although intellectual and associational life continues to resist the
state which has come to dominate most aspects of life in Iran.
The only true conclusion from all of this: Islam does indeed represent
a serious obstacle to achieving democracy in Muslim countries, at the
same time Islam presents a mortal danger to those societies where it's
fighting to win a majority status.
TK9
JGB
> Lisa R. wrote:
>
> > abu mohammed <spamless> wrote in message news:<3f062890_4@newsfeed>...
> > > >
> > This isn't comparative religion 101. Don't start lying to me. Your a
> > Muslim, and you damned well know the meaning of the word "Dawa."
>
> Where do you get these 'shocking facts'? are you as pissed off about Jehovah witness too?
>
>
> >
> > By the way, did you know that bin Laden called upon Americans to
> > embrace Islam after 9-11? Read his "Letter to the American People."
>
>
> Good advise. I thing America would be a better place if more people became good moslems.<
Dawa in public schools
Definition of Dawa
Dawa means to invite non-Muslims to accept the truth of Islam.
Performing Dawa involves both our words and actions.
Importance of Dawa in Islam
The Quran and the Hadith of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be
upon him) give numerous references on the importance and the
obligations of Dawa. The prophetic life of the Prophet involved
spreading the message of Islam. Dawa is also reflected in the lives of
the Sahabas (the Companions of the Prophet). Now the responsibility of
spreading the message of Islam rests on our shoulders.
"Invite all to the way of your Lord with Wisdom and beautiful
Preaching" (Quran 16:125)
"you are made witnesses unto mankind" (Quran 2:143)
"Let there arise a group inviting to all that is good" (Quran 3:104)
Provided below would be some practical suggestions that Muslim
students as individuals and as a group should undertake to accomplish
the above-mentioned goal.
Students: receptive to new ideas
Students are routinely exposed in their classroom to new information
and opinions, hence they tend to be more receptive to new beliefs and
ideas.
Schools are therefore fertile grounds where the seeds of Islam can be
sowed inside the hearts of non-Muslim students. Muslim students should
take ample advantage of this opportunity and present to their
schoolmates the beautiful beliefs of Islam.
Getting started
First and foremost the Muslim students should establish themselves
into a Muslim group (Muslim Students Association, Islamic Circle,
Quran Study Group etc.) if they haven't yet instituted one.
Organized efforts give better results and contain blessings of Allah
in them. The prime aim of this group should be to evolve Muslim
themselves into dynamic Muslim personalities and also to portray Islam
to their non-Muslim peers and school staff in a positive way using
words and actions.
Personal contact
It has been proven that one-to-one contact with non-Muslim students in
the classroom is the most effective way to share Islam. Personal
contact tends to be more informal and invites more questions from
non-Muslims. It is advised that brothers work with non-Muslim boys and
sisters work with non-Muslim girls.
Inviting questions
Muslims can create opportunities for non-Muslims to ask questions by
simple actions that reflect living Islam like saying "Insha Allah"
(God willing) when talking about a future activity; saying that they
are going to prayer during Salaat time; brothers wearing Kufis;
sisters wearing Hijab; not using swear words during conversations;
telling the truth; wearing modest clothes etc.
The questions that do crop up from peers should be dealt with in a
very concise and eloquent manner. Doing this will require some basic
knowledge on the part of Muslim students.
Be prepared to explain:
Some of the topics that all Muslims should be able to explain are:
The concept of Tawhid (oneness of God)
Prophet Muhammad as being a real Prophet
News reports about violence by Muslims
Polygamy in Islam
Reasons for wearing Hijab
Reasons for praying five times daily
The Quran and Science
All students should obtain the ways to explain these topics through
knowledge gained from their study circle, by reading articles in
Islamic magazines, watching videos, attending lectures, and through
experiences of other students.
Dawa through the school newspaper
The school newspaper is another effective way of doing Dawa. Muslim
students are highly encouraged to become writers and editors of their
school papers. Inform the writing staff to consult you before
publishing articles on Islam and Muslims. Being a writer will give you
ample opportunity to provide Islamically oriented articles which will
Insha Allah open the hearts and minds of readers.
As a group, the Muslim students should try to contribute an article on
Islam in each issue of its paper. The school may not allow you to
preach in the school paper, but Alhamdu lillah, there are ways to
circumvent this problem.
When your Islamic group holds any Islamic event like lectures,
religious/ cultural events etc, submit an article about this event as
a "news" article. This way, you are still presenting an aspect of
Islam without coming across as a preacher.
The second way to circumvent the problem is to write articles about
Islamic holidays, the two Eids and again submit them as "news"
articles. It also helps to have a good rapport with the editor and the
writing staff of the paper. Invite them to your Iftar parties,
gatherings, lectures etc.
Relief booths to help disaster victims
When natural and human created disasters occur, Muslims students
should be the first ones to respond by setting up a disaster relief
assistance booth, which collects money, canned food, clothes etc. This
gives a very positive picture of Islam and Muslims as servers of
humanity, compared to the negative images of Islam portrayed by the
media.
Including Islamic holidays in the school calendar
Many school events and exams are scheduled around Jewish and Christian
holidays. Muslims students should approach the school authorities as a
group and get Islamic dates included in the school diaries to be
considered during the scheduling of important school events.
Islamic books in school libraries
Encourage school libraries to shelf books and magazines on Islam
written by Muslims, and to provide the librarian with a list of
recommended books on Islam. If the library is unwilling to purchase
the books themselves, Muslim students should raise funds amongst
themselves and from their parents and come up with the required books.
Scanning textbooks for misinformation on Islam
Students of all grades and their parents should regularly scan
textbooks to detect any biased material on Islam. If any is found, it
should be brought to the attention of the teachers and the school
authorities, providing them with the correct information with
evidence, and have the teacher announce to the students the correct
information.
In this area, the Council on Islamic Education can also help.
Starting an Islamic newsletter
A newsletter on Islam and Muslims can be started by the Muslim
students, if the school allows it. This newsletter can be funded
mostly by advertisements and donations. A newsletter on Islam and
Muslims will again help in dispelling the misinformation circulating
about Islam and encourage Muslims to be organized and proactive.
Incorporating Islam into class projects
Some aspects of Islam can be incorporated in school projects. For
example, for a speech class, if there is freedom to choose a topic, an
Islamic topic should be selected. Similar opportunities can be created
in history, social science, writing and other classes.
Remember, it was the Will and help of Allah, Iman (faith) and Muslim
creativity that won victories for the Muslims. Schools and campuses
are no exceptions as places where Islam can be victorious.
Other Miscellaneous activities
Setting up Dawa tables with Islamic literature
Hosting Islamic exhibitions
Placing advertisements in the school paper with the toll-free
telephone number for non-Muslims
1-800-662-Islam
It is highly recommended that all Muslim students carry Dawa flyers in
their schoolbags and purses to pass them on to their friends at
school. To obtain free Islam brochures for distribution, contact the
Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA) at 718-658-1199.
The bottom line
We should use every opportunity to sensitize non-Muslim peers and
school staff to Islam and to establish an environment in which
everywhere a non-Muslim turns, he notices Islam portrayed in a
positive way, is influenced by it and eventually accepts Islam with
Allah's guidance, Insha Allah (if God wills).
Sharing Islam
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Food for thought
... and action
"When a Muslim visits a sick brother, he continues to pick the fruits
of Paradise till he returns." Hadith
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright Š 2003 DawaNet
950 75th St, Downers Grove, IL 60455, USA
Email: in...@dawanet.com
Lisa R.
If you step back and look at the larger picture, you'll see that
Muslims are the youngest and fastest reproducing sector of European
society. A growing number appear to be alienated from greater
European society, partly for economic reasons, and partly because
they've mostly ignored. Now these alienated young people are turning
to the Quran for identity and values, specifically rejecting those of
the host country. French and British Muslims increasingly feel
themselves to be Muslim first, and French or British second, if they
indeed feel French or British at all. And they express disdain for the
secular state.
Lisa
Richard Conway
Nobody is trying to subvert American Muslims. The majority probably
came to the US to get a better life which their own Islamic
governments were unable to provide for them. To mission and coerce
people to be Muslims at every possible opportunity may be a doctrine
of the Koran which makes you a good Muslim, but the US is fine with
secular multiculturalism.
> >
> > > Yes they may have to be a war
> > > fought to re-instate this Islamic state - but your statement that there
> is
> > > no Islam without jihad is utter rubbish.
> >
> > There is both invitation and jihad. And if persuasion doesn't work,
> > violence will.
> >
> > Or at least, that's what you think.
>
> How do you know what I think? If there is an invitation for an Islamic
> state then there would be no fighting. You really need to re-evaluate your
> meaning of Jihad as I don't think you fully know the correct meaning.
Are you suggesting that there will be a fight if there is no
invitation for an Islamic state? Lisa made a valid point with Jihad
but I think you're trying to distinguish between lesser and greater
Jihad here. Do you confirm that both are the religious duty of a
Muslim?
Muslims that have embraced western beliefs and tried to find a
middle-ground between religion and democratic principles have
integrated into the state well but many new Muslim immigrants cling to
their roots and ideologies (this is not specific to Muslims this is a
common effect of migration). Britain is secular country which promotes
freedom of worship in sufficient numbers, history recalls from earlier
Jihads into Spain and Italy that both nations were Islamicised.
Islamic governments, however, have never allowed freedom of worship
for Jews or Christians in public or the building of NEW houses of
worship.
>
>
> >
> > > I will make you aware that Islam is not a culture it is a religion.
> Don't
> > > mix them both up.
> > >
> > > Where have Muslims stated they reject secular state governments of
> Europe?
> > > There are many Muslims in Europe and the majority of them are socially
> > > accepted and also live peacefully within the country. Where are you
> quoting
> > > this stuff from?
> >
> > Khilafa.com. Straight from the horse's mouth.
>
> You didn't answer my question.
Certainly Anjem Choudhury from Al-Maharijoun frequently asserts that
the black flag of Islam will fly over downing street.
> >
> >
> > Lisa
Sosa Escobar
"Richard Conway" <ranger...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:672560aa.03070...@posting.google.com...
Nobody is coercing you to become Muslims and this not part of Dawa. The US
are fine with any country they have under their thumb.
>
> > >
> > > > Yes they may have to be a war
> > > > fought to re-instate this Islamic state - but your statement that
there
> > is
> > > > no Islam without jihad is utter rubbish.
> > >
> > > There is both invitation and jihad. And if persuasion doesn't work,
> > > violence will.
> > >
> > > Or at least, that's what you think.
> >
> > How do you know what I think? If there is an invitation for an Islamic
> > state then there would be no fighting. You really need to re-evaluate
your
> > meaning of Jihad as I don't think you fully know the correct meaning.
>
> Are you suggesting that there will be a fight if there is no
> invitation for an Islamic state? Lisa made a valid point with Jihad
> but I think you're trying to distinguish between lesser and greater
> Jihad here. Do you confirm that both are the religious duty of a
> Muslim?
Muslims want an Islamic state - the invitation is already there. However
the problem is getting other Muslim bodies to accept this invitation. The
question of whether there will be a fight involved depends on many
situations such as will countries like Britian and America sit back and
allow an Islamic state, remember it was with the help of the British that
the Islamic state fell apart. An Islamic state may create problems for
America who's are relatively happy to see the Muslim world split and
therefore easier to deal with. America have continously called for
countries not to become to Islamic - the new Turkish PM was one example.
This is proof enough that they would never want to see the formation of an
Islamic state.
Many Muslim countries allow the building of houses of worship other than
Islam. Egypt is a prime example.
Please also remember it was the Spanish and their inquisitions who then
planned to remove all Muslims from Spain. Therefore Spain was then
"Christianised" again.
Lisa R.
Sure it is. There are two jihads, the first, featuring psychological
assessment, and the other, which features military conquest. They're
inseparable.
The first jihad without the second isn't true Islam, according to some
Islamic groups. Islam cannot be Islam without the Islamic state.
Furthermore, it is incumbent upon Muslims to do dawa whenever
possible, so as to enlarge the realms of Islam.
And if worse comes to worse, Muslims can resort to military conquest
in order to expand the Islamic realms, though of course they'd prefer
to do it peacefully.
> > > Yes, Muslims
> > > want to re-instate an Islamic state but that state is to incorporate all
> the
> > > Muslim countries in the world at the moment.
> >
> > Quite true. The Muslim countries must be incorporated into the
> > Caliphate before the kufr countries are.
> >
> > Have you ever thought that trying to subvert other peoples' countries
> > will get Muslims annihilated?
>
> Why the generalisation? Whos trying to subvert whom, I believe America have
> a great track record of subverting countries.
Yes, it does. And that's shameful, because we're supposed to be a
republic, and not an empire.
Nonetheless, America's current idiocy does not change the Islamic
past, which was brutally imperialistic. And it doesn't change the
fact that some Muslims would like to recreate that past, as much as
possible.
> Did America every think this
> may get them killed.
Sometimes, definitely. That's why Americans don't often go to certain
countries.
> > > Yes they may have to be a war
> > > fought to re-instate this Islamic state - but your statement that there
> is
> > > no Islam without jihad is utter rubbish.
> >
> > There is both invitation and jihad. And if persuasion doesn't work,
> > violence will.
> >
> > Or at least, that's what you think.
>
> How do you know what I think? If there is an invitation for an Islamic
> state then there would be no fighting.
And if "invitation" fails? What will true believers do then? Throw
in the towel and say "let's give up?"
Of course they won't. If they have the numbers to force the issue,
then they will. It's not like Muslims have historically been shy
about using coercion.
> You really need to re-evaluate your
> meaning of Jihad as I don't think you fully know the correct meaning.
I understand jihad perfectly.
> > > > Very alarmingly, a significant minority of European Muslims are
> > > > rejecting the secular state governments of Europe. They have made it
> > > > quite clear that they have no use for multiculturalism, equality, or
> > > > democracy. Here's what one British Muslim wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "This concerted effort to slot Islam into the model of the
> > > > multicultural society where all cultures are equal is misleading. In
> > > > fact the notion that the concepts of democracy, freedom and human
> > > > rights are universal values shared by all cultures is not true for any
> > > > culture. Neither is it true that these concepts are the superior
> > > > concepts - rather they are the degenerate concepts that are leading to
> > > > degenerate behaviour in western societies."
> > > >
> > > > I think that the West is in trouble.
> > >
> > > And what British Muslim was this?
> And the quote says nothing about
> Muslims
> > > rejecting a secular state government in Europe either but is a general
> > > statement saying that all cultures do not have a universal value in
> regards
> > > to democracy, freedom and human rights.
He's rejected secular law, and equality between the different ethnic
groups living in Britain. The only reason he hasn't done something
about it is because he'd get sent back to his decrepit Islamic
homeland, or get thrown into prison.
> > The writer speaks for many British Muslims, who have rejected
> > multiculturalism's message of equality under secular law. He embraces
> > the political side of Islam, which calls for an Islamic state, with
> > law based on a sovereign Quran.
> >
> > The message is that, if Muslims are to continue to live in Britain,
> > the state must become Islamic. The letter appeared in Khilafa.com.
> > You know what the Khilafa is, right?
>
> The personal opionins of one British Muslim don't reflect the statements by
> every Muslim. Also you have only quoted one paragraph instead of the whole
> text so how would I have nay idea what the quoter is trying to say? Muslims
> agree that an Islamic state should be created, once created you would see
> similar migrations of Muslims over to the Islamic state as Jews to Israel.
> Britian will never be a Islamic country as it is founded on Christianity -
> and to say Muslims can only live in Islamic countries is an incorrect view.
I agree that Britain will never be an Islamic state, but it won't be
for lack of trying. There are British Islamicists who would love to
topple the British state by force and implement the Sharia. You can
look at Tonya's post for pointers.
Those guys will be cooling their heels in a moldy British prison for a
while.
The British may seem like Nancy boys, but they were pretty good at
knocking heads together in the 19th century, and they stood up to
everything that Hitler threw at them, all by themselves, for at least
one year. So I wouldn't mess with the British.
> > > I will make you aware that Islam is not a culture it is a religion.
> Don't
> > > mix them both up.
It's a religion that requires an Islamic state, and aims to carry the
light of Islam to the four corners of the earth, either by jihad or by
invitation.
> > > Where have Muslims stated they reject secular state governments of
> Europe?
> > > There are many Muslims in Europe and the majority of them are socially
> > > accepted and also live peacefully within the country. Where are you
> quoting
> > > this stuff from?
> >
> > Khilafa.com. Straight from the horse's mouth.
> You didn't answer my question.
How do I make this any clearer? I got some of my information from the
Khilafa.com website. Why don't you visit it? It will tell you what
the word "Khilafa" means, and what they think of secular government.
Lisa
Lisa R.
No, the site is still very much there. Here it is:
***************************************************************************
Lisa R.
What if invitation doesn't work?
What if relatively few kufr come to Islam through invitation? What if
a sizeable Muslim minority is force to live under the secular law of
the kufr countries? Isn't a Muslim supposed to leave those countries,
by Islamic law?
> > > > > Yes they may have to be a war
> > > > > fought to re-instate this Islamic state - but your statement that
> there
> is
> > > > > no Islam without jihad is utter rubbish.
> > > >
> > > > There is both invitation and jihad. And if persuasion doesn't work,
> > > > violence will.
> > > >
> > > > Or at least, that's what you think.
> > >
> > > How do you know what I think? If there is an invitation for an Islamic
> > > state then there would be no fighting. You really need to re-evaluate
> your
> > > meaning of Jihad as I don't think you fully know the correct meaning.
> >
> > Are you suggesting that there will be a fight if there is no
> > invitation for an Islamic state? Lisa made a valid point with Jihad
> > but I think you're trying to distinguish between lesser and greater
> > Jihad here. Do you confirm that both are the religious duty of a
> > Muslim?
I don't think that he's going to confirm it.
> Muslims want an Islamic state - the invitation is already there. However
> the problem is getting other Muslim bodies to accept this invitation. The
> question of whether there will be a fight involved depends on many
> situations such as will countries like Britian and America sit back and
> allow an Islamic state, remember it was with the help of the British that
> the Islamic state fell apart. An Islamic state may create problems for
> America who's are relatively happy to see the Muslim world split and
> therefore easier to deal with. America have continously called for
> countries not to become to Islamic - the new Turkish PM was one example.
> This is proof enough that they would never want to see the formation of an
> Islamic state.
I think they would want an Islamic state. At least most would.
Didn't the Kuwaitis elect fundamentalists in a recent election?
Er...Egypt isn't a Muslim country, according to some Muslims. If the
Muslim Brotherhood seized power, I think it would go much harder on
the Copts.
> Please also remember it was the Spanish and their inquisitions who then
> planned to remove all Muslims from Spain. Therefore Spain was then
> "Christianised" again.
And who conquered Spain in the 7th century? And who conquered Hungary?
And who conquered Byzantium? And who conquered Afghanistan and
India? And...oh well, you get the idea.
Lisa
Count 1
> Many Muslim countries allow the building of houses of worship other than
> Islam. Egypt is a prime example.
Perhaps. But every single human rights and religous rights organization on
the face of the planet knows that Islamic countries create far worse
religous persecution than any other country. The majority of 'Islamic'
countries have anti-proselytizing legislation on the books.
> Please also remember it was the Spanish and their inquisitions who then
> planned to remove all Muslims from Spain. Therefore Spain was then
> "Christianised" again.
Sossy - that was...like 700 YEARS AGO! Give it up man - that dog is dead.
What's happening in Spain to-day? Is there freedom of religion in Spain as
enshrined in a constitution?
http://www.vescc.com/constitution/spain-constitution-eng.html
Read article 14.
Answer - yes.
The real lesson of the re-christianization of Spain is it marks the
beginning of the end of Islamic influence on the European continent.
Lisa R.
> "Lisa R." <mand...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:7aa8d371.03070...@posting.google.com...
> > drahcir <4g...@a2gwwecgeg.com> wrote in message
> news:<8ukhgv0ubgd9fi05n...@4ax.com>...
> > > On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 18:07:20 -0700, abu mohammed <spamless> wrote:
> > >
> > > >And lastly, yes, Allah is the same god as the god of the Jews.
> > >
> > > That's weird. Why do you suppose He treats the jews so much better
> > > than the muslims?
> >
> > The better question is: why do Muslims spend so much time obsessively
> > loathing the very people who gave them their god?
>
> Nobody gave us God. God was already there.
Already "where?" Weren't the Arab tribesmen essentially animists?
> Another vague statement which
> is just as much confusing.
I agree. You are vague and imprecise.
Lisa
>
>
> >
> > Lisa
TonyaK911
Aren't you wondering why Sosa Escobar, who asked for this information
in the first place, never came back to thank me for posting response
to his request?
Could it be he doesn't quite like the facts?
;)))))
TK9
mand...@aol.com (Lisa R.) wrote in message news:<7aa8d371.0307...@posting.google.com>...
TonyaK911
TK9
mand...@aol.com (Lisa R.) wrote in message news:<7aa8d371.03070...@posting.google.com>...
Lisa R.
> Lisa,
> Aren't you wondering why Sosa Escobar, who asked for this information
> in the first place, never came back to thank me for posting response
> to his request?
> Could it be he doesn't quite like the facts?
> ;)))))
> TK9
I'm sure that he doesn't.
Lisa
Sosa Escobar
"TonyaK911" <Ton...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:e846901c.03070...@posting.google.com...
> Lisa,
> Aren't you wondering why Sosa Escobar, who asked for this information
> in the first place, never came back to thank me for posting response
> to his request?
> Could it be he doesn't quite like the facts?
> ;)))))
> TK9
No i just didn't get round to reading it until now.
What was the question again? I believe it was that Muslims are trying to
convert western countries into Islamic states. The only fighting that has
taken place for such an attempt has been withing Muslim countries and not
western countries. The below quotes are from two fundamentalist groups -
Muhajiroun and Ansar Al-Shari'ah and do not convey the wishes of Islam and
the millions of Muslims in the world.
Yes, Iraqis want Iraq to be an Islamic state - but here we are talking about
a state to be set from from scratch. It is countries like America and
Britain who do not want to see this happen as they feel it will break any
advantage they have in the country.
There is no point quoting from known fundamentalist - why do you think they
are called fundamentalist! There are millions of Muslims in Britain and the
US - their opinions count for more. As far as I am aware - no Muslim I have
ever spoke to have called for a fight in Britian to turn it into an Islamic
state. Even Abu Al-Hamza states that Britian may succumb to Islam through a
'cultural invasion' i.e. meaning one British culture slowly becoming Islamic
which contradicts Omar Mohammed Bakri Fostok quote!
Sosa Escobar
"Count 1" <omnipi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:behlqk$59rlg$1...@ID-130993.news.dfncis.de...
I didn't bring the past. It was Richard Conway.
Lisa R.
> "TonyaK911" <Ton...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:e846901c.03070...@posting.google.com...
> > Lisa,
> > Aren't you wondering why Sosa Escobar, who asked for this information
> > in the first place, never came back to thank me for posting response
> > to his request?
> > Could it be he doesn't quite like the facts?
> > ;)))))
> > TK9
>
>
> No i just didn't get round to reading it until now.
>
> What was the question again? I believe it was that Muslims are trying to
> convert western countries into Islamic states. The only fighting that has
> taken place for such an attempt has been withing Muslim countries and not
> western countries.
Isn't the export of the revolution commanded by the Quran?
Hizb-u-tahrir certainly thinks so. The folks at Khilafa.com think so.
They want to bear the "light of Islam" to the four corners of the
earth.
It's a Quranic command.
Furthermore, Muslims are not supposed to live in dar al kufr for
extended periods of time. If Muslims live in dar al kufr, then they
are obligated to do dawa in order to make it Muslim. But if they
can't make it Muslim, then they are supposed to leave, so that they
may avoid apostasy.
I wonder how Muslims reconcile their lives in the West with the Quran?
> The below quotes are from two fundamentalist groups -
> Muhajiroun and Ansar Al-Shari'ah and do not convey the wishes of Islam and
> the millions of Muslims in the world.
No they don't---at least not so far. We'll see what happens when the
Muslim share of the British population reaches 20%.
That should be interesting.
> Yes, Iraqis want Iraq to be an Islamic state - but here we are talking about
> a state to be set from from scratch. It is countries like America and
> Britain who do not want to see this happen as they feel it will break any
> advantage they have in the country.
>
> There is no point quoting from known fundamentalist - why do you think they
> are called fundamentalist! There are millions of Muslims in Britain and the
> US - their opinions count for more. As far as I am aware - no Muslim I have
> ever spoke to have called for a fight in Britian to turn it into an Islamic
> state. Even Abu Al-Hamza states that Britian may succumb to Islam through a
> 'cultural invasion' i.e. meaning one British culture slowly becoming Islamic
> which contradicts Omar Mohammed Bakri Fostok quote!
Maybe the two groups can hash it out between themselves as they
usually do---by dropping a nail bomb into their shorts and blowing the
opposition to kingdom come.
Nonetheless, the export of Islam is mandated in the Quran. I just
wonder how secularized Muslims are going to tap dance around that
obligation, given that the fundamentalist crowd takes the obligation
so seriously.
They might end up getting killed for being apostates.
Lisa
Count 1
Yes - YOU did. Read above you twit.
TonyaK911
Now, these are really great news for Great Britain!
Instead of being killed in a fight for Britain, her citizens will be
given a chance to "voluntarily" obey the rules of Sha'ria when Mauslim
infestation of that country reaches the point of dynamic equillibrium!
Of course, France will fall first. As we see in every day news,
Muslims accounting for just 10% of population can create enough
violence and can leverage political manipulation so as to totally
change the policies of the country. Racist manifestations in Europe,
instigated by Muslim minorities are a sure sign of what's coming to
that doomed continent.
Indeed, Islam is a cancer on the body of humanity!
TK9
TonyaK911
> "TonyaK911" <Ton...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:e846901c.03070...@posting.google.com...
> > Lisa,
> > Aren't you wondering why Sosa Escobar, who asked for this information
> > in the first place, never came back to thank me for posting response
> > to his request?
> > Could it be he doesn't quite like the facts?
> > ;)))))
> > TK9
>
>
> No i just didn't get round to reading it until now.
>
> What was the question again? I believe it was that Muslims are trying to
> convert western countries into Islamic states. The only fighting that has
> taken place for such an attempt has been withing Muslim countries and not
> western countries.
In Provence, France a young Jewish woman had Star of David cut into
her wrist after debate. THAT'S THE FREE SPEECH ARAB STYLE:
Yahoo! Actualités France
mercredi 12 mars 2003, 20h31
http://fr.news.yahoo.com/030312/5/33csk.html
Des malfaiteurs gravent une étoile de David sur le poignet d'une
étudiante juive
AIX-EN-PROVENCE (AP) - Trois malfaiteurs cagoulés ont gravé une
étoile de David avec un objet métallique coupant sur le poignet
d'une étudiante juive de 21 ans après l'avoir agressée mardi soir
à son domicile d'Aix-en-Provence (Bouches-du-Rhône), a-t-on
appris mercredi de source judiciaire.
Les pistes d'un acte raciste ou d'un conflit personnel sont
évoquées
par les enquêteurs du commissariat de police d'Aix-en-Provence.
Cette jeune fille venait d'assister à un débat sur le conflit
israélo-palestinien au cinéma "Le Renoir" à Aix-en-Provence quand
elle a été agressée à son domicile, deux ou trois heures plus tard.
Une enquête a été ouverte pour "violences aggravées", selon une
source judiciaire.
This is the modern day Europe.
What d'ya think expects them tomorrow, when Muslim infestation reaches
50%???
Ask Indians...
TK9
Sosa Escobar
You're the twit:
Richard Conway stated:
"history recalls from earlier Jihads into Spain and Italy that both nations
were Islamicised"
This is bringing up the past as there is no Jihad being fought in Britian
therefore the statement does not apply to the current situation. So what
was the point of bringing it up?
>
>
>
Sosa Escobar
The export of Islam may be nescessary via Dawa but there is no obligation to
take up war with the country to make it Islamic. That is the point I am
making.
>
>
> Lisa
Sosa Escobar
This doesn't prove anything apart from the fact you are single-minded.
Lisa R.
And if they don't convert willingly?
Lisa
Lisa R.
TonyaK911
Oh, we understand. No war. Unless that country dares to resist. Then
you've got an obligation.
TK9
TonyaK911
Nothing seems to be proof enough for Muslim apologists - neither the
wave of hate crime they unleashed Europe, with people beaten up and
mutilated when they dare to disagree with the Arab mob, nor direct
quotations from many Muslim theological leaders about their ultimate
goal - PanIslamic Europe and PanIslamic world!
If standing against this attack on democracies makes me single-minded,
I'm proud of it!
NEVER AGAIN!
TK9
TonyaK911
Britain has little time left to wake up before it's too late and
British people are forced to pray to allah, on their knees, raising
their asses up to heaven.
The Islamic Republic of Great Britain - that's the goal of more than
one British Islamist organization. British Islamist leader Anjam
Choudry is quoted as saying: "[Our organization] Al-Muhajiroun has one
goal. We would like to see the implementation of sharia law in the UK.
Under our rule this country would be known as the Islamic Republic of
Great Britain. To do that...we are making a conscious effort to
recruit large numbers of non-Muslims. Whites, Chinese, Japanese, and
Indians in this country are bored with the capitalist system. It's a
bankrupt ideal. We have found that young non-Muslims, like our Asian
followers, want something new. You can tell that from the
anti-globalization movement. So we're offering them something pure: a
religious mission, the values of sharia and jihad." (Source: Guardian
Unlimited)
TK9
Unknown
(Muslims only):
Unknown
(Muslims only):
forbidden for nonbelievers.
Buy a Koran and burn it in front of a Muslim for God and country.
Majik
> And lastly, yes, Allah is the same god as the god of the Jews.
That's what Muslims like to say, but it's certifiably untrue.
Allah is based on a local Arabian Moon deity.
Majik
<mand...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > Khilafa.com. Straight from the horse's mouth.
>
> > You didn't answer my question.
>
> How do I make this any clearer? I got some of my information from the
> Khilafa.com website. Why don't you visit it? It will tell you what
> the word "Khilafa" means, and what they think of secular government.
>
> Lisa
I can't access this site. Apparently it's been barred or shut down.
TonyaK911
Khalifa or Khilafa or Caliphate... the dream of the Islamic World
Government
Try http://www.1ummah.org/encyclopedia/khilafa.html
Pan-Islamism has Khalifa as its root idea.
"Caliphate is the only solution against all Wars. Let all
sub-contractors of the Clients States, created by the British
Government since 1916 and earlier hand over their present power to an
Elected Caliph immediately and let Western military and illegal
immigrants in Palestine and other part of land of 1300 years Caliphate
leave that land immediately. This is the only solution to avoid
present and all future wars."
- this pearl is from http://home.att.net/~kgmowla/
Sheik Yerbouti
> Majik <nos...@noway.com> wrote in message news:<150720031141082197%nos...@noway.com>...
> Khalifa or Khilafa or Caliphate... the dream of the Islamic World
> Government
> Try http://www.1ummah.org/encyclopedia/khilafa.html
> Pan-Islamism has Khalifa as its root idea.
>
> "Caliphate is the only solution against all Wars. Let all
> sub-contractors of the Clients States, created by the British
> Government since 1916 and earlier hand over their present power to an
> Elected Caliph immediately and let Western military and illegal
> immigrants in Palestine and other part of land of 1300 years Caliphate
> leave that land immediately. This is the only solution to avoid
> present and all future wars."
> - this pearl is from http://home.att.net/~kgmowla/
>
It's been said numerous times that Osama bin Laden aims to be that
Kaliph. Won't life be nice and peaceful then?