The "Alternative" Medicine Myth
PeterB - Original
body has evolved to beneficially metabolize only nutrients in order to
maintain health. Drugs are therefore a false "alternative,"
"scientific" only in the sense that they are tested for short-term
toxicity in relatively small group of subjects, usually for just 3
mths. This is how Vioxx came to kill so many, and why so many drugs
are either recalled, relabeled, or both. If you don't believe it,
take a look at Poison Control data and compare the number of
hospitalizations resulting from use of prescription drugs to those
from use of vitamin or herbal supplements. It's not even close.
Peter B-Aboriginal
"PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in message
news:7d633b2a-c7eb-4d50...@a31g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
Because herbs are natural, many people believe they are safe.
Unfortunately, this is not always the case. While many herbs may be
considered safe, some have hazardous side effects. In fact, in the past
few years there have been several deaths related to herbal products. In
some cases, small amounts of herbs, even those found in teas, have had
devastating effects. To date, the following herbs are considered toxic
and, given their side effects, should be avoided:4,5
Chapparal -- kidney and liver damage.
Comfrey - liver toxicity; damage to fetus if used during pregnancy.
Ephedra/ma huang - hypertension, myocardial infarction (MI), seizure,
stroke, phychosis.
Germander - liver damage and damage.
Lobelia - breathing problems, rapid heartbeat, coma, death.
Kombucha - risk of contamination when prepared at home; risk of
transmission of infectious microorganisms and lead.
Willow bark - Reye's syndrome in children.
Wormwood - seizures, rhabdomyolysis (muscle fiber breakdown), kidney
failure.
Yohimbe - hypotension (low blood pressure), heart conduction disorders,
death.
Herbs also may interact with prescription medications, over-the-counter
drugs, vitamins and minerals. For example, ginkgo taken with ibuprofen
may lead to spontaneous and/or excessive bleeding.6 High doses of garlic
may enhance the the effects and adverse effects of anticoagulant and
antiplatelet drugs, including aspirin, clopidogrel (Plavix), enoxaparin
(Lovenox), and others. Proceed cautiously. Herbs are not tightly
regulated like drugs and other medications, even though they often are
used for similar purposes. Advise your doctor, pharmacist and other
health professionals of all herbs you are taking.
If herbs can be unsafe, why are they so readily available? This is
because herbal products -- like vitamin and mineral supplements -- are
classified by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as dietary
supplements, not drugs. As a result, they are not tested for safety or
efficacy. Thus herbal products can be marketed at any time, without
scientific research and without approval from the FDA. Drug companies,
on the other hand, must conduct clinical studies to determine the
effectiveness of the drugs, safety, possible interactions with other
substances, and appropriate dosages. The FDA must review the data and
authorize the drug's use before the product may be marketed. The FDA can
take regulatory action on an herbal product only after it has received a
sufficient number of reports of ill effects and can show the product is
unsafe. At this point, the FDA can recommend the product be withdrawn
from the market and/or labeled to reflect potential side effects. This
system of regulation is always after the fact, not before.
Moreover, herbs -- unlike drugs -- are not standardized. When you buy a
drug, even an over-the-counter one, you know that each capsule contains
the same amount of active ingredient. Drug companies have to follow
strict quality-control measures. Herb companies do not. Doses differ
between herb capsules and from product to product. The active
ingredients also vary depending on the plant part (flower, root, seeds,
nuts, bark, branch), plant form (dried, extract, tincture, tea) and
plant species. An independent test by Consumer Lab on a variety of ginko
biloba supplements found that many brands do not provide the expected
ingredients. Two brands appeared to contain impure ingredients and two
others contained less ginkgo than claimed on their labels, one of which
was contaminated with lead and also failed to break apart properly. A
fifth supplement failed to identify the part of the ginkgo plant used, a
FDA labeling requirement. Only three ginkgo supplements passed Consumer
Lab's tests
Just a light overview.
And do not forget those people poisioned by too much water.
Mark Probert
> There is no such thing as "alternative" medicine
Correct. It is either medicine, or bullshit.
You favor bullshit.
trigonometry1972@gmail.com |
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:7d633b2a-c7eb-4d50...@a31g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
As a practical matter, drugs also have issues
concerning standardisation. Big pharma
often try to block the production of client
specific formulations done by bw to drug weight
and rather forced the use of fixed drug
doses. Plus big pharma often apparently
chooses dosing sizes somewhat out of
thin air as it is funny how dosing ends up
5 or 10 milligram or gram.
Nearly everything has some risk. Wheat products
have huge risks. Sure herbs have some
risks though like vaccines some of the claims
risk are likely false.
Medicine is alternative when it is not widely used
enough. For example when a conventional
quack MD pushes SSRI med for panic attack rather
than offering a trial of multi-gram myo-inositol
instead. The first has a long known list of risks
and the latter has minimal or no risk. And
if you object that there is enough research
on the latter, why isn't their enough? I'll
suggest that failing falls on your door step
and Big Pharma and its mouthpieces.
Wyeth and Pfizer should be chained to
a millstone and picked into the abyss
for what they've done with hormone
therapies.............................Trig
t
"Peter B-Aboriginal" <orig...@i-frag.com> wrote in message
news:4af8...@news.x-privat.org...
avaliable?
t
prove your point?
"Mark Probert" <mark.p...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2de7277a-073d-459f...@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
PeterB - Original
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:7d633b2a-c7eb-4d50...@a31g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
> There is no such thing as "alternative" medicine because the
> human body has evolved to beneficially metabolize only nutrients
> in order to maintain health. Drugs are therefore a false "alternative,"
> "scientific" only in the sense that they are tested for short-term
> toxicity in relatively small group of subjects, usually for just 3
> mths. This is how Vioxx came to kill so many, and why so many
> drugs are either recalled, relabeled, or both. If you don't believe it,
> take a look at Poison Control data and compare the number of
> hospitalizations resulting from use of prescription drugs to those
> from use of vitamin or herbal supplements. It's not even close.
> ============================================
> Because herbs are natural, many people believe they are safe.
Rather, the safety of herbal medicine is based on hundreds or even
thousands of years of safe use by millions of people. The German "E
Commission" Monographs is that country's authority on herbal
applications in the treatment of patients in STANDARD medical care.
> Unfortunately, this is not always the case. While many herbs may
> be considered safe, some have hazardous side effects. In fact, in
> the past few years there have been several deaths related to
> herbal products.
I notice you didn't bother to cite your source for these cases. Nor
did you state the relative or absolute risk, or how this would compare
to a drug considered safe, such as aspirin, which kills hundreds of
people each year. Are you equally opposed to use of aspirin?
> In
> some cases, small amounts of herbs, even those found in teas, have had
> devastating effects. To date, the following herbs are considered toxic
> and, given their side effects, should be avoided:4,5
>
> Chapparal -- kidney and liver damage.
> Comfrey - liver toxicity; damage to fetus if used during pregnancy.
> Ephedra/ma huang - hypertension, myocardial infarction (MI), seizure,
> stroke, phychosis.
> Germander - liver damage and damage.
> Lobelia - breathing problems, rapid heartbeat, coma, death.
> Kombucha - risk of contamination when prepared at home; risk of
> transmission of infectious microorganisms and lead.
> Willow bark - Reye's syndrome in children. - ASPIRIN
> Wormwood - seizures, rhabdomyolysis (muscle fiber breakdown), kidney
> failure.
> Yohimbe - hypotension (low blood pressure), heart conduction disorders,
> death.
Again, no references or clinical data. Severe allergic response to
an herb is always possible and will occur in a tiny minority of
people.
> Herbs also may interact with prescription medications, over-the-counter
> drugs, vitamins and minerals. For example, ginkgo taken with ibuprofen
> may lead to spontaneous and/or excessive bleeding.6 High doses of garlic
> may enhance the the effects and adverse effects of anticoagulant and
> antiplatelet drugs, including aspirin, clopidogrel (Plavix), enoxaparin
> (Lovenox), and others.
That being a reason to avoid drugs, as they may interfere with
medicinal and even culinary herbs.
> Proceed cautiously. Herbs are not tightly
> regulated like drugs and other medications....
Nor are drugs tightly regulated in any meaningful sense of the term.
FDA has said that just 10-20% of all ADRs are even reported. A
conservative estimate of prescription-drug related deaths puts the
figure at over 100,000 in the USA alone. That figure applies to
properly prescribed and dispensed medications. Some sources say the
figure may be more than one million.
> , even though they often are
> used for similar purposes. Advise your doctor, pharmacist and other
> health professionals of all herbs you are taking.
>
> If herbs can be unsafe, why are they so readily available? This is
> because herbal products -- like vitamin and mineral supplements --
> are classified by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) as
> dietary supplements, not drugs. As a result, they are not tested for
> safety or efficacy.
In an ironic twist, they have been "tested" much the way prescription
drugs are now tested for their real impact in human health: After the
fact. How did we learn that HRT was elevating the risk of stroke and
cancer in millions of women? Decades after the fact. What about
Vioxx? After the fact. There are hundreds of recalled drugs
previously approved by FDA, later proven unsafe. In the case of
herbs, we have hundreds or thousands of years of safe medicinal use.
An appropriate caution with respect to herbs is to know the
manufacture, its production methods, and its sources of raw
materials. Eclectic Institute is an herbal company I use because of
their high quality standards, which includes an aboriginal formulation
of Kava.) There are other responsible mftrs, many publicly traded.
> Thus herbal products can be marketed at any time, without
> scientific research and without approval from the FDA.
FDA approval means little or nothing. The majority of FDA's operating
budget is funded by the drug makers it purports to regulate. [ref.
The Truth About the Drug Companies, by Marcia Angel.] The
availability of scientific study through both the American Botanical
Council and the German "Commission E" Monographs are evidence that
many herbal medicines are better studied, in fact, than the majority
of prescription drugs.
> Drug companies,
> on the other hand, must conduct clinical studies to determine the
> effectiveness of the drugs, safety, possible interactions with other
> substances, and appropriate dosages.
Again, the large number of deaths attributed to *after market* use of
prescription drug effects proves how meaningless FDA approval really
is. Remember that FDA's budget is mostly funded by the drug companies
themselves, so those "clinical studies" are obviously not properly
designed, implemented, or interpreted.
> The FDA must review the data and
> authorize the drug's use before the product may be marketed.
See above.
> The FDA can
> take regulatory action on an herbal product only after it has received a
> sufficient number of reports of ill effects and can show the product is
> unsafe.
So why hasn't FDA done that? There are very few actions by FDA over
the years to remove herbal medicines from the market place. It's
because there is no evidence of harm, or the evidence is insufficient,
as you yourself admit, to take such actions. If I'm wrong, cite your
source and back up your claims.
> At this point, the FDA can recommend the product be withdrawn
> from the market and/or labeled to reflect potential side effects. This
> system of regulation is always after the fact, not before.
Again, not unlike prescription drugs which, after the fact, are
recalled or relabeled.
> Moreover, herbs -- unlike drugs -- are not standardized. When you
> buy a drug, even an over-the-counter one, you know that each
> capsule contains the same amount of active ingredient.
You can hope so. But with so many of these medications manufactured
in China, how do you really know? And while that may be critically
important for a prescription drug, it's hard to argue that an exact
milligram dose of ginseng or elderberry is going to affect your health
substantially one way or the other. By choosing GMP mftrs, you can
often have access to product assays that guarantee what you are
getting.
> Drug companies have to follow
> strict quality-control measures.
A necessary thing when you manufacture substances that act as poisons
in the human body. Dosing is critical for these "alternative"
medicines because just a little goof and you're dead.
> Herb companies do not.
GMP compliant mftrs do. [ref. http://www.naturalproductsassoc.org]
> Doses differ
> between herb capsules and from product to product. The active
> ingredients also vary depending on the plant part (flower, root,
> seeds, nuts, bark, branch), plant form (dried, extract, tincture, tea)
> and plant species.
And that's perfectly natural. It's what happens when you eat. No two
oranges or apricots are alike, either. Many people purposely avoid
standardized herbals because they feel these products are
adulterated. Still, GMP compliant mftrs will deliver a high quality
product with little variance beyond what occurs naturally due to raw
sources.
> An independent test by Consumer Lab on a variety of ginko
> biloba supplements found that many brands do not provide the
> expected ingredients.
Were the mftrs GMP compliant? Were the products acquired from off
shore (potentially questionable) sources? What was the range of
variance? When researching supplements, it's important to put it all
in proper context.
> Just a light overview.
You mean "lightweight."
> And do not forget those people poisioned by too much water.
Apparently a lack of critical thinking isn't poisonous at all or you'd
be dead.
dr_jeff
Actually, there's two types of medicine: medicine that works and
medicine that doesn't work.
Conventionial medicine (aka science-based medicine) is medicine that is
based on a sound understanding of how the body, its organs and cells work.
Conmed (conjecture-based medicine, alternative or complementary
medicine) is based on conjecture that something works, with little or no
evidence.
Good sources of info include:
http://www.theskepticsguide.org/ and those found here:
http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/links.aspx
Jeff
tools
> t wrote:
>> Since it is only "bullshit" why don't you take a double dose of senna
>> to prove your point?
Major BS cut.
> Jeff
Peter B-Aboriginal
<trigonom...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:74acb18b-21a3-4489...@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
==========================================
Had you any business sense let alone medicinal they you would have
realized that when a patient seeks help they seek fixes with known cures
unless all other avenues were exhausted. Then they will try bleeding
edge medicines after having been taught the possible pitfalls.
If a patient goes to a Dr. and is treated with voodoo alternatives and
they fail or cause mysterious side effects then the Dr. can or will be
sued and lose all he has.
Your alternative crap is never tested to the level of main medicines
since no one can afford to do it, that and it lacks interest since the
outcome is questionable at best.
Those who seek Quacks are Quackers. Peter B.
Peter B-Aboriginal
> On Nov 9, 8:12 pm, "Peter B-Aboriginal" <origin...@i-frag.com> wrote:
>> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:7d633b2a-c7eb-4d50...@a31g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> There is no such thing as "alternative" medicine because the
>> human body has evolved to beneficially metabolize only nutrients
>> in order to maintain health. Drugs are therefore a false
>> "alternative,"
>> "scientific" only in the sense that they are tested for short-term
>> toxicity in relatively small group of subjects, usually for just 3
>> mths. This is how Vioxx came to kill so many, and why so many
>> drugs are either recalled, relabeled, or both. If you don't believe
>> it,
>> take a look at Poison Control data and compare the number of
>> hospitalizations resulting from use of prescription drugs to those
>> from use of vitamin or herbal supplements. It's not even close.
>> ============================================
>> Because herbs are natural, many people believe they are safe.
>
> Rather, the safety of herbal medicine is based on hundreds or even
> thousands of years of safe use by millions of people. The German "E
> Commission" Monographs is that country's authority on herbal
> applications in the treatment of patients in STANDARD medical care.
>
"E Commision"?? Like a consotium of Johnnie boy, Helen, Janet Drew,
Carole, and you?
Pullease, don't make me laugh.
>> Unfortunately, this is not always the case. While many herbs may
>> be considered safe, some have hazardous side effects. In fact, in
>> the past few years there have been several deaths related to
>> herbal products.
>
> I notice you didn't bother to cite your source for these cases. Nor
> did you state the relative or absolute risk, or how this would compare
> to a drug considered safe, such as aspirin, which kills hundreds of
> people each year. Are you equally opposed to use of aspirin?
>
Aspirin is a "natural" med. I'm opposed to it the same as I am to water
which is poisonous when drank to excess. Aspirin has known side effects
and dangers, well documented. I did not want to bore anyone with my post
so I trimmed it down knowing that people like you would not be
interested in truth, only their agenda.
>> In
>> some cases, small amounts of herbs, even those found in teas, have
>> had
>> devastating effects. To date, the following herbs are considered
>> toxic
>> and, given their side effects, should be avoided:4,5
>>
>> Chapparal -- kidney and liver damage.
>> Comfrey - liver toxicity; damage to fetus if used during pregnancy.
>> Ephedra/ma huang - hypertension, myocardial infarction (MI), seizure,
>> stroke, phychosis.
>> Germander - liver damage and damage.
>> Lobelia - breathing problems, rapid heartbeat, coma, death.
>> Kombucha - risk of contamination when prepared at home; risk of
>> transmission of infectious microorganisms and lead.
>> Willow bark - Reye's syndrome in children. - ASPIRIN
>> Wormwood - seizures, rhabdomyolysis (muscle fiber breakdown), kidney
>> failure.
>> Yohimbe - hypotension (low blood pressure), heart conduction
>> disorders,
>> death.
>
> Again, no references or clinical data. Severe allergic response to
> an herb is always possible and will occur in a tiny minority of
> people.
>
Are you willing to put your life on the line as a testor of these
things? Are you willing to tell everyone you know, especially your mom
and dad to take all of these things? If not why not?
Did you mom use Comfrey while she was pregnant with you?
>> Herbs also may interact with prescription medications,
>> over-the-counter
>> drugs, vitamins and minerals. For example, ginkgo taken with
>> ibuprofen
>> may lead to spontaneous and/or excessive bleeding.6 High doses of
>> garlic
>> may enhance the the effects and adverse effects of anticoagulant and
>> antiplatelet drugs, including aspirin, clopidogrel (Plavix),
>> enoxaparin
>> (Lovenox), and others.
>
> That being a reason to avoid drugs, as they may interfere with
> medicinal and even culinary herbs.
>
I knew you were stupid and even unreasonable but this takes the cake.
For one thing you just wanted proof beyond what was written, then you
accept the proof of what was written and used it to justify shunning
medication while taking herbs. Now,.....are herbs packaged with these
warnings? Why not?
Why isn't anyone touting herbs honest and concerned about others health?
Why are they just concerned with their agenda and ensuring sales of a
purportedly "safe" alternative drug.
>> Proceed cautiously. Herbs are not tightly
>> regulated like drugs and other medications....
>
> Nor are drugs tightly regulated in any meaningful sense of the term.
> FDA has said that just 10-20% of all ADRs are even reported. A
> conservative estimate of prescription-drug related deaths puts the
> figure at over 100,000 in the USA alone.
Just pure conjecture on your part, no substantiation or even plausible
cause.
The FDA? They have no clue whether or not it is 10% or 90%, but at least
it is honest and not trying to mislead others with fear. Besides, why
are you now touting the FDA or CDC or anything like that, are you not
hypocritical in the 9th degree?
I brought up issues here that you could deal with honestly, but no, you
have to try and defend the devil. You are no better than that other
fraud so-called Dr. Chung and his deceit.
Peter B-Aboriginal
news:m86dnUgD8egYh2bX...@giganews.com...
Might as well call yourself little t so the dummies can know who you
are. (carole, et al)
tools
trust? Whine to mommy to protect you cause you are too slow to make wise
decisions. Why are you breathing good O2 that someone worthy of it might
use?
tools
Oh yeah, eat a package of prunes too. Then tell us that natural has no
effect.
Peter B-Aboriginal
I love it when you make such a fool of yourself and show your blatant
inability for reading comprehension on any degree. I never mentioned nor
inferred whose lab researches whose. I did infer that stupid people such
as yourself would never spend the money on research since they think
their word and truth is gospel.
Next time you get crabs get rid of them the natural way. Spread lighter
fluid on your pubic hairs, set them on fire and stab the little suckers
as they run out with an icepick. Remember, you have to be quick, this
*is* a natural cure.
Peter B-Aboriginal
ROTFLOL, upset you that much, eh? LOL
Poor little t. Always in a stew, between the S and U. Poor ignorant
little feller.
trigonometry1972@gmail.com |
> <trigonometry1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
So you support Wyeth on they've done on hormone replacement?
tools
hurt when your aim was off with the icepick?
tools
> "tools" <too...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:s4GdnU1t65r0-2bX...@giganews.com...
>> Peter B-Aboriginal wrote:
>>> "tools" <too...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:m86dnUgD8egYh2bX...@giganews.com...
>>>> dr_jeff wrote:
>>>>> t wrote:
>>>>>> Since it is only "bullshit" why don't you take a double dose of
>>>>>> senna to prove your point?
>>>> Major BS cut.
>>>>> Jeff
>>> Might as well call yourself little t so the dummies can know who you
>>> are. (carole, et al)
>> YOU, Peter, need to sample a triple dose. Take 5 or 6 thou of C
>> first. Oh yeah, eat a package of prunes too. Then tell us that natural
>> has no effect.
>
> ROTFLOL, upset you that much, eh? LOL
>
> Poor little t. Always in a stew, between the S and U. Poor ignorant
> little feller.
>
that you are. Punk in the prison sense of the word.
Peter B-Aboriginal
news:2a84b0df-bd44-4a52...@w37g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
=================================================
Is it possible for you to get more ridiculous?
Jan Drew
Results 1 - 10 of about 11,900 for Mark Probert bullshit. (0.58
seconds)
Mark Probert
WOW! I did not realize that you posted that much bullshit.
tools
Jan Drew
<...>
Results 1 - 10 of about 175,000 for complementary and alternative
accredited schools. (0.37 seconds)
Jan Drew
Jan Drew
Peter B-Aboriginal
Hate to break it to you bubba, but natural medicine? Some things might
be used for medicinal purposes, yet be the very things you eat as a
matter of course. Like take a little wine for your stomachs sake.
Peter B-Aboriginal
"Jan Drew" <jdrew...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:24c9df10-f125-464d...@u7g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> Is a troll.
>
C'mon, gimme a kiss g'ma you know you want to. lol.
You really aught to keep the message attributes in there g'ma.
PeterB - Original
> >> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in
> >> messagenews:7d633b2a-c7eb-4d50...@a31g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> There is no such thing as "alternative" medicine because the
> >> human body has evolved to beneficially metabolize only nutrients
> >> in order to maintain health. Drugs are therefore a false
> >> "alternative,"
> >> "scientific" only in the sense that they are tested for short-term
> >> toxicity in relatively small group of subjects, usually for just 3
> >> mths. This is how Vioxx came to kill so many, and why so many
> >> drugs are either recalled, relabeled, or both. If you don't believe
> >> it,
> >> take a look at Poison Control data and compare the number of
> >> hospitalizations resulting from use of prescription drugs to those
> >> from use of vitamin or herbal supplements. It's not even close.
> >> ============================================
> >> Because herbs are natural, many people believe they are safe.
>
> > Rather, the safety of herbal medicine is based on hundreds or even
> > thousands of years of safe use by millions of people. The German "E
> > Commission" Monographs is that country's authority on herbal
> > applications in the treatment of patients in STANDARD medical care.
>
> Drew, Carole, and you?
No, dumbass, it's a compendium of research on herbal remedies and a
predicate to their use in clinical settings, not that you would have a
clue about such things.
> Pullease, don't make me laugh.
For that, just read your own unintelligible posts.
> >> Unfortunately, this is not always the case. While many herbs may
> >> be considered safe, some have hazardous side effects. In fact, in
> >> the past few years there have been several deaths related to
> >> herbal products.
>
> > I notice you didn't bother to cite your source for these cases.
> > Nor did you state the relative or absolute risk, or how this would
> > compare to a drug considered safe, such as aspirin, which kills
> > hundreds of people each year. Are you equally opposed to use
> > of aspirin?
>
> Aspirin is a "natural" med.
No, it isn't. The active ingredient in aspirin, which is
acetylsalicylic acid, is a synthetic form of salicin, whose *natural*
source is Willow Bark. Aspirin is the "alternative" based on this
herb.
> I'm opposed to it the same as I am to
> water which is poisonous when drank to excess.
So you are okay with anything unless taken to excess. So you have no
problem with herbals that are not taken to excess. Correct?
> Aspirin has
> known side effects and dangers, well documented.
But you are okay with all that except when aspirin is taken to
excess. Correct?
> I did not want to
> bore anyone with my post
> so I trimmed it down knowing that people
> like you would not be interested in truth, only their agenda.
My interest in the truth has lead to a careful review of the medical
literature and interviews with other scientists, not to the incoherent
ramblings of an idiot like you.
I have taken at least three of the herbs from that list and here I
am. These are not culinary herbs, so their use is a matter of
application in particular medical conditions, something you would not
understand.
> Did you mom use Comfrey while she was pregnant with you?
No, idiot, because an herb contraindicated during pregnancy would be
appropriately avoided. You apparently "think" your access to this of
information is unique. It isn't.
> >> Herbs also may interact with prescription medications,
> >> over-the-counter
> >> drugs, vitamins and minerals. For example, ginkgo taken with
> >> ibuprofen
> >> may lead to spontaneous and/or excessive bleeding.6 High doses of
> >> garlic
> >> may enhance the the effects and adverse effects of anticoagulant and
> >> antiplatelet drugs, including aspirin, clopidogrel (Plavix),
> >> enoxaparin
> >> (Lovenox), and others.
>
> > That being a reason to avoid drugs, as they may interfere with
> > medicinal and even culinary herbs.
>
> I knew you were stupid and even unreasonable but this takes the
> cake. For one thing you just wanted proof beyond what was
> written...
If I were looking for "proof" of anything, I wouldn't be reading
anything written by you. What you know about medical science can't be
found with an electron microscope.
> , then you accept the proof of what was written...
The only "proof" you've provided is evidence of your own dementia.
> and used it
> to justify shunning medication while taking herbs.
If by "medication" you mean prescription drugs, those are
traditionally derived from the active ingredients found in plants.
You may not realize it, but herbs are plants. Keeping up?
> Now,.....are
> herbs packaged with these warnings? Why not?
Why don't you read the mftr labels and find out. I have seen a list
of contraindications on mftr labels for years, as well as the typical
"If you develop any unusual symptoms while taking this product,
discontinue use."
> Why isn't anyone touting herbs honest and concerned about others health?
Remove your head from your posterior and take a look around. The rise
in popularity of natural medicine demonstrates exactly that.
> Why are they just concerned with their agenda and ensuring sales
> of a purportedly "safe" alternative drug.
Because FDA approves drugs on behalf of its funding sources, the drug
makers. We covered that.
> >> Proceed cautiously. Herbs are not tightly
> >> regulated like drugs and other medications....
>
> > Nor are drugs tightly regulated in any meaningful sense of the term.
> > FDA has said that just 10-20% of all ADRs are even reported. A
> > conservative estimate of prescription-drug related deaths puts the
> > figure at over 100,000 in the USA alone.
>
> Just pure conjecture on your part, no substantiation or even
> plausible cause.
The Lazarou study conclusion (cited on FDAs own website) has been a
conservative estimate of prescription drug related mortality for more
than a decade. I'm not surprised that you knew nothing about it.
> The FDA? They have no clue whether or not it is 10% or 90%, but at least
> it is honest and not trying to mislead others with fear. Besides, why
> are you now touting the FDA or CDC or anything like that, are you not
> hypocritical in the 9th degree?
Even FDA finds it difficult to deal in distortion all the time. Which
is more than I can say for you.
> I brought up issues here that you could deal with honestly, but no,
> you have to try and defend the devil. You are no better than that
> other fraud so-called Dr. Chung and his deceit.
You and Chung are threads of the same cloth, as if you didn't know.
Peter Bowditch
>On Nov 9, 9:10?pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 9, 7:03?pm, PeterB - Original <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > There is no such thing as "alternative" medicine
>>
>> Correct. It is either medicine, or bullshit.
>>
>> You favor bullshit.
>
> Results 1 - 10 of about 11,900 for Mark Probert bullshit. (0.58
>seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 455,000 for jan drew eats turds. (0.37
seconds)
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
Peter B-Aboriginal
====================================================
Funny how you agreed with me, just took a differenct direction.
> Pullease, don't make me laugh.
For that, just read your own unintelligible posts.
=======================================================
See your sentance above.
> >> Unfortunately, this is not always the case. While many herbs may
> >> be considered safe, some have hazardous side effects. In fact, in
> >> the past few years there have been several deaths related to
> >> herbal products.
>
> > I notice you didn't bother to cite your source for these cases.
> > Nor did you state the relative or absolute risk, or how this would
> > compare to a drug considered safe, such as aspirin, which kills
> > hundreds of people each year. Are you equally opposed to use
> > of aspirin?
>
> Aspirin is a "natural" med.
No, it isn't. The active ingredient in aspirin, which is
acetylsalicylic acid, is a synthetic form of salicin, whose *natural*
source is Willow Bark. Aspirin is the "alternative" based on this
herb.
==============================================
So take the natural stuff, it is available.
> I'm opposed to it the same as I am to
> water which is poisonous when drank to excess.
So you are okay with anything unless taken to excess. So you have no
problem with herbals that are not taken to excess. Correct?
================================================
I have no problem with you even eating dog feces if that is your choice,
and I don't believe anyone here would deny you your right to eat
whatever you wanted. Any type of herbs included. I really don't even
care if you take them to excess as people like you are apt to do when
they seek to escape life.
What is objected to is your insistence that what you tout is the only
right way and everything else is dangerous.
You freaking idiots do not warn others when you insist that your drug of
choice is the only right one, that there is an excess, side effects, or
danger when mixed with other things. Your agenda IS your god.
> Aspirin has
> known side effects and dangers, well documented.
But you are okay with all that except when aspirin is taken to
excess. Correct?
=======================================================
See above bozo.
> I did not want to
> bore anyone with my post
> so I trimmed it down knowing that people
> like you would not be interested in truth, only their agenda.
My interest in the truth has lead to a careful review of the medical
literature and interviews with other scientists, not to the incoherent
ramblings of an idiot like you.
=========================================================
Poppy cock, yours is a rant of a loon, and agenda driven cut n paste
propaganda machine with little to no research behind it. You cannot site
scientific studies addressing my concerns above, nor do you desire to.
People lives be damned, agenda full speed ahead, then deny whenever
caught.
====================================================
Since I don't have AIDS, no.
> Did you mom use Comfrey while she was pregnant with you?
No, idiot, because an herb contraindicated during pregnancy would be
appropriately avoided. You apparently "think" your access to this of
information is unique. It isn't.
===================================================
See how you like to twist things? At the time of your birth your mother
would never have known this. She also was most likely not alt type of
person.
As to my access being unique, I will have to call you out. You are a
liar. You did not nor do you ever research the sides, with combo's or
conditions. You have not warned, you have not even cared. The blood of
all who followed your misleading advice and that or similar other
miscreants is on your heads.
At this point you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear no matter
how hard you try. All you care about is your personal war and truth be
damned.
=====================================================
A little hard to follow here while you twist things around to suit your
confused mind and have no bearing on what I wrote.
I asked about herbs packaged with warnings, and here you go off on a
rant about manufacturers. WTH?
Your daft, a moron, and can't even keep up with your own rantings of a
loon.
> Why isn't anyone touting herbs honest and concerned about others
> health?
Remove your head from your posterior and take a look around. The rise
in popularity of natural medicine demonstrates exactly that.
========================================================
No bozo it isn't, and you simply cannot provide proof that would settle
anything.
As to "popularity" as a determinator. ROTFL!!!! The popularity of a
crowd going over a cliff like a bunch of lemmings only serves to prove
mass hysteria, ignorance and the dummest SOB's alive and you stupidly
place yourself right in the middle of that crowd. That is about the only
correct thing I've seen you do.
> Why are they just concerned with their agenda and ensuring sales
> of a purportedly "safe" alternative drug.
Because FDA approves drugs on behalf of its funding sources, the drug
makers. We covered that.
=================================================
No you didn't. I could allude to you being a pretty boy, but everyone
would knowingly laugh in my face.
> >> Proceed cautiously. Herbs are not tightly
> >> regulated like drugs and other medications....
>
> > Nor are drugs tightly regulated in any meaningful sense of the term.
> > FDA has said that just 10-20% of all ADRs are even reported. A
> > conservative estimate of prescription-drug related deaths puts the
> > figure at over 100,000 in the USA alone.
>
> Just pure conjecture on your part, no substantiation or even
> plausible cause.
The Lazarou study conclusion (cited on FDAs own website) has been a
conservative estimate of prescription drug related mortality for more
than a decade. I'm not surprised that you knew nothing about it.
================================================
No, read the fine print. You jumped to conclusions just like they did,
no proof from either.
> The FDA? They have no clue whether or not it is 10% or 90%, but at
> least
> it is honest and not trying to mislead others with fear. Besides, why
> are you now touting the FDA or CDC or anything like that, are you not
> hypocritical in the 9th degree?
Even FDA finds it difficult to deal in distortion all the time. Which
is more than I can say for you.
================================================
You do not know me clueless one, I do not deal with distortion cause it
makes the author look foolish, ignorant and stupid. You on the other
hand have no difficulty doing it since you are operating out of your
agenda and truth be damned just like in your replies here. Tell me, just
what do you do to deal with your mental health issues? Just therapy via
counseling, or peyote?
> I brought up issues here that you could deal with honestly, but no,
> you have to try and defend the devil. You are no better than that
> other fraud so-called Dr. Chung and his deceit.
You and Chung are threads of the same cloth, as if you didn't know.
==============================================
We are not, which was pointed out to him. No doubt you are just as
clueless about the Bible as you are about the health issues. He posted
stuff without his understanding just like you do, his errors were
pointed out to him just like the errors of the articles you use are
pointed out to you, both of you ignore the truth and make poor attempts
to reshape the truth to your own benefits. Problem is your stupidity is
apparent to all, just like his was.
For a minute I thought there was a flash of brilliance in your reply,
but I quickly realized if was your nose, Bozo.
Bob Officer
Jan Drew <jdrew...@aol.com> wrote:
> Nothing intelligent.
How true...
for a change.
--
Bob Officer
Posting the truth
http://www.skeptics.com.au
Bob Officer
Jan Drew <jdrew...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Nov 9, 9:10?pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 9, 7:03?pm, PeterB - Original <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > There is no such thing as "alternative" medicine
>>
>> Correct. It is either medicine, or bullshit.
>>
>> You favor bullshit.
>
> Results 1 - 10 of about 11,900 for Mark Probert bullshit. (0.58
>seconds)
Results 1 - 10 of about 64,000 for Jan Drew has a drippy curt. (0.38
seconds)
tools
> Jan Drew <jdrew...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> On Nov 9, 9:10?pm, Mark Probert <mark.prob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Nov 9, 7:03?pm, PeterB - Original <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There is no such thing as "alternative" medicine
>>> Correct. It is either medicine, or bullshit.
>>>
>>> You favor bullshit.
>> Results 1 - 10 of about 11,900 for Mark Probert bullshit. (0.58
>> seconds)
>
> Results 1 - 10 of about 455,000 for jan drew eats turds. (0.37
> seconds)
>
PeterB - Original
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:17f1f1ed-314c-44da...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
You apparently think that "consortium" and "compendium" mean the same
thing. I suggest you buy a dictionary.
> > Pullease, don't make me laugh.
>
> For that, just read your own unintelligible posts.
> =======================================================
> See your sentance above.
The word is "sentence," moron.
> > >> Unfortunately, this is not always the case. While many herbs may
> > >> be considered safe, some have hazardous side effects. In fact, in
> > >> the past few years there have been several deaths related to
> > >> herbal products.
>
> > > I notice you didn't bother to cite your source for these cases.
> > > Nor did you state the relative or absolute risk, or how this would
> > > compare to a drug considered safe, such as aspirin, which kills
> > > hundreds of people each year. Are you equally opposed to use
> > > of aspirin?
>
> > Aspirin is a "natural" med.
>
> No, it isn't. The active ingredient in aspirin, which is
> acetylsalicylic acid, is a synthetic form of salicin, whose *natural*
> source is Willow Bark. Aspirin is the "alternative" based on this
> herb.
> ==============================================
> So take the natural stuff, it is available.
So you agree that aspirin is the "alternative" to Willow Bark,
contradicting your earlier claim. Were you lying, just ignorant of
the facts, or both?
> > I'm opposed to it the same as I am to
> > water which is poisonous when drank to excess.
>
> So you are okay with anything unless taken to excess. So you have no
> problem with herbals that are not taken to excess. Correct?
> ================================================
> I have no problem with you even eating dog feces if that is your choice,
> and I don't believe anyone here would deny you your right to eat
> whatever you wanted. Any type of herbs included. I really don't even
> care if you take them to excess as people like you are apt to do when
> they seek to escape life.
I do not use herbs to "escape life," dumbass. In fact, I use them on
rare occasion. And if you don't care what others do, why do you post
on a subject you have zero knowledge about?
> What is objected to is your insistence that what you tout is the only
> right way and everything else is dangerous.
That's not my position, so I suggest you learn to read. I compare the
effectiveness and safety of natural (REAL) medicine to the failings of
synthetic ("alternative") prescription drugs. Those with an interest
in the subject will consider the facts and make up their own minds.
> You freaking idiots do not warn others when you insist that your drug of
> choice is the only right one, that there is an excess, side effects, or
> danger when mixed with other things. Your agenda IS your god.
I do not have "a drug of choice" and do not claim that a particular
herb is "the only right one." In fact, I am on record saying that
medicinal herbs (not culinary) should be confined to temporary relief
of symptoms. Most incidence of human disease is treated effectively
using basic nutritional therapies.
> > Aspirin has
> > known side effects and dangers, well documented.
>
> But you are okay with all that except when aspirin is taken to
> excess. Correct?
> =======================================================
> See above bozo.
>
> > I did not want to
> > bore anyone with my post
> > so I trimmed it down knowing that people
> > like you would not be interested in truth, only their agenda.
>
> My interest in the truth has lead to a careful review of the medical
> literature and interviews with other scientists, not to the incoherent
> ramblings of an idiot like you.
> =========================================================
> Poppy cock, yours is a rant of a loon, and agenda driven cut n paste
> propaganda machine with little to no research behind it.
So prove it. Cite your sources using published science, as I have.
You won't, of course, because the medical literature disproves your
false claims.
> You cannot site [sic]
> scientific studies addressing my concerns above, nor do you desire to.
> People lives be damned, agenda full speed ahead, then deny whenever
> caught.
I referred you to the compendium of herbal science used as a predicate
for their use in professional clinical care (the "E Commission"
Monographs), while your list of "dangerous" herbs were presented
without a single citation. But don't let the facts get in your way.
Nor do I have AIDS. Are you attempting to associate people who take
herbs with AIDS? If so, why?
> > Did you mom use Comfrey while she was pregnant with you?
>
> No, idiot, because an herb contraindicated during pregnancy would be
> appropriately avoided. You apparently "think" your access to this of
> information is unique. It isn't.
> ===================================================
> See how you like to twist things? At the time of your birth your mother
> would never have known this. She also was most likely not alt type of
> person.
There is no such thing as an "alt" type of person. There are morons,
like you, and intelligent people who learn that natural medicine is
the only REAL medicine.
> As to my access being unique, I will have to call you out. You are a
> liar. You did not nor do you ever research the sides, with combo's or
> conditions.
You have no knowledge of what I do and use false charges in an effort
to avoid being seen as the fraud you are.
> You have not warned, you have not even cared. The blood of
> all who followed your misleading advice and that or similar other
> miscreants is on your heads.
What advice is that, moron?
> At this point you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear no matter
> how hard you try. All you care about is your personal war and truth be
> damned.
I'm an advocate of natural medicine because it changed my life by
curing various illnesses. You can like it, or leave it.
> > > That being a reason to avoid drugs, as they may interfere with
> > > medicinal and even culinary herbs.
>
> > I knew you were stupid and even unreasonable but this takes the
> > cake. For one thing you just wanted proof beyond what was
> > written...
>
> If I were looking for "proof" of anything, I wouldn't be reading
> anything written by you. What you know about medical science can't be
> found with an electron microscope.
>
> > , then you accept the proof of what was written...
>
> The only "proof" you've provided is evidence of your own dementia.
>
> > and used it
> > to justify shunning medication while taking herbs.
>
> If by "medication" you mean prescription drugs, those are
> traditionally derived from the active ingredients found in plants.
> You may not realize it, but herbs are plants. Keeping up?
>
> > Now,.....are
> > herbs packaged with these warnings? Why not?
>
> Why don't you read the mftr labels and find out. I have seen a list
> of contraindications on mftr labels for years, as well as the typical
> "If you develop any unusual symptoms while taking this product,
> discontinue use."
> =====================================================
> A little hard to follow here while you twist things around to suit your
> confused mind and have no bearing on what I wrote.
IOW, you cannot respond intelligently to the facts presented.
> I asked about herbs packaged with warnings, and here you go off on a
> rant about manufacturers. WTH?
I stated that LABELS used by mftrs are known to include such warnings,
which addresses the point you raised.
> Your daft, a moron, and can't even keep up with your own rantings of a
> loon.
IOW, you know I'm right and you can't counter with anyone but personal
attacks. Thanks for proving my point.
> > Why isn't anyone touting herbs honest and concerned about others
> > health?
>
> Remove your head from your posterior and take a look around. The rise
> in popularity of natural medicine demonstrates exactly that.
> ========================================================
> No bozo it isn't, and you simply cannot provide proof that would settle
> anything.
The proof that you're demented? Read your own posts.
> As to "popularity" as a determinator. ROTFL!!!!
If herbs were as dangerous as you falsely claim, they would be in
decline, not on the rise. Millions of users and many decades of safe
use are a testament to that fact. Spin it however you like, the
safety of herbal medicine compared to prescription meds is a matter of
fact.
> The popularity of a
> crowd going over a cliff like a bunch of lemmings only serves to prove
> mass hysteria, ignorance and the dummest SOB's alive and you stupidly
> place yourself right in the middle of that crowd. That is about the only
> correct thing I've seen you do.
What you think you "see" is meaningless. The lack of published
science supporting your unnatural fear of herbs is telling.
> > Why are they just concerned with their agenda and ensuring sales
> > of a purportedly "safe" alternative drug.
>
> Because FDA approves drugs on behalf of its funding sources, the drug
> makers. We covered that.
> =================================================
> No you didn't. I could allude to you being a pretty boy, but everyone
> would knowingly laugh in my face.
?? I can assure you, they are laughing in your face already.
> > >> Proceed cautiously. Herbs are not tightly
> > >> regulated like drugs and other medications....
>
> > > Nor are drugs tightly regulated in any meaningful sense of the term.
> > > FDA has said that just 10-20% of all ADRs are even reported. A
> > > conservative estimate of prescription-drug related deaths puts the
> > > figure at over 100,000 in the USA alone.
>
> > Just pure conjecture on your part, no substantiation or even
> > plausible cause.
>
> The Lazarou study conclusion (cited on FDAs own website) has been a
> conservative estimate of prescription drug related mortality for more
> than a decade. I'm not surprised that you knew nothing about it.
> ================================================
> No, read the fine print. You jumped to conclusions just like they did,
> no proof from either.
First you dispute the existence of iatrogenic studies. Now you
pretend to understand the "fine print" in a study presented that you
knew nothing about. Care to explain how these and other iatrogenic
data about the hazards of drugs are somehow meaningless, while a
handful of possibly fatal allergic responses to herbs carry enormous
weight? And don't forget to cite your sources.
> > The FDA? They have no clue whether or not it is 10% or 90%, but at
> > least it is honest and not trying to mislead others with fear. Besides, why
> > are you now touting the FDA or CDC or anything like that, are you not
> > hypocritical in the 9th degree?
>
> Even FDA finds it difficult to deal in distortion all the time. Which
> is more than I can say for you.
> ================================================
> You do not know me clueless one, I do not deal with distortion cause it
> makes the author look foolish, ignorant and stupid.
You're passed the point of merely looking ignorant and stupid.
> You on the other
> hand have no difficulty doing it since you are operating out of your
> agenda and truth be damned just like in your replies here. Tell me, just
> what do you do to deal with your mental health issues? Just therapy via
> counseling, or peyote?
Projection noted.
> > I brought up issues here that you could deal with honestly, but no,
> > you have to try and defend the devil. You are no better than that
> > other fraud so-called Dr. Chung and his deceit.
>
> For a minute I thought there was a flash of brilliance in your reply,
> but I quickly realized if was your nose, Bozo.
That was just you coming up for air.
Peter B-Aboriginal
WOW, you're reduced to the grammar police? ROTFL
Really? I suppose you meant manufacturers when you typed mftr's. If so
and the meds are "natural" why are they then manufactered? You cannot
have it both ways.
>> Your daft, a moron, and can't even keep up with your own rantings of
>> a
>> loon.
>
> IOW, you know I'm right and you can't counter with anyone but personal
> attacks. Thanks for proving my point.
>
>> > Why isn't anyone touting herbs honest and concerned about others
>> > health?
>>
>> Remove your head from your posterior and take a look around. The
>> rise
>> in popularity of natural medicine demonstrates exactly that.
>> ========================================================
>> No bozo it isn't, and you simply cannot provide proof that would
>> settle
>> anything.
>
> The proof that you're demented? Read your own posts.
>
>> As to "popularity" as a determinator. ROTFL!!!!
>
> If herbs were as dangerous as you falsely claim, they would be in
> decline, not on the rise. Millions of users and many decades of safe
> use are a testament to that fact. Spin it however you like, the
> safety of herbal medicine compared to prescription meds is a matter of
> fact.
>
If that were true then what I posted wound not have to be addressed, and
you would not have answered in an agenda oriented fashion. There are
other herbs that are far more deadly than what I posted, pure poison in
fact, but I am sure you would consider them as safe since they have med
value. That is just how sick you are.
As to your idiotic statement about how they would be on the decline?
Just take the recent goings on of Hulda the Terrible and her feel good
machine. Lots sold, none did what they claimed but gullible people such
as yourself defended it, bought it, used it and died by it. Yuppers,
that is some great reasoning and logic you have there and yes, you are
an original.
>> The popularity of a
>> crowd going over a cliff like a bunch of lemmings only serves to
>> prove
>> mass hysteria, ignorance and the dummest SOB's alive and you stupidly
>> place yourself right in the middle of that crowd. That is about the
>> only
>> correct thing I've seen you do.
>
> What you think you "see" is meaningless. The lack of published
> science supporting your unnatural fear of herbs is telling.
>
Are you daft?
You expect me to do something you are unwilling to do? You are agenda
oriented and truth be damned.
You address the issues I brought up then I would consider doing a home
run on your falacies.
>> > The FDA? They have no clue whether or not it is 10% or 90%, but at
>> > least it is honest and not trying to mislead others with fear.
>> > Besides, why
>> > are you now touting the FDA or CDC or anything like that, are you
>> > not
>> > hypocritical in the 9th degree?
>>
>> Even FDA finds it difficult to deal in distortion all the time.
>> Which
>> is more than I can say for you.
>> ================================================
>> You do not know me clueless one, I do not deal with distortion cause
>> it
>> makes the author look foolish, ignorant and stupid.
>
> You're passed the point of merely looking ignorant and stupid.
>
Shudder, poor poor peter
>> You on the other
>> hand have no difficulty doing it since you are operating out of your
>> agenda and truth be damned just like in your replies here. Tell me,
>> just
>> what do you do to deal with your mental health issues? Just therapy
>> via
>> counseling, or peyote?
>
> Projection noted.
>
Best you can do? Ayup.
>> > I brought up issues here that you could deal with honestly, but no,
>> > you have to try and defend the devil. You are no better than that
>> > other fraud so-called Dr. Chung and his deceit.
>>
>> For a minute I thought there was a flash of brilliance in your reply,
>> but I quickly realized if was your nose, Bozo.
>
> That was just you coming up for air.
HUH? Now you're both Dumbo and Bozo. so sad..
PeterB - Original
wrote:
>
> >> > >> Because herbs are natural, many people believe they are safe.
>
> >> > > Rather, the safety of herbal medicine is based on hundreds or
> >> > > even
> >> > > thousands of years of safe use by millions of people. The German
> >> > > "E
> >> > > Commission" Monographs is that country's authority on herbal
> >> > > applications in the treatment of patients in STANDARD medical
> >> > > care.
>
> >> > "E Commission"?? Like a consortium of Johnnie boy, Helen, Janet
> >> > Drew, Carole, and you?
>
> >> No, dumbass, it's a compendium of research on herbal remedies and a
> >> predicate to their use in clinical settings, not that you would have
> >> a clue about such things.
> >> ====================================================
> >> Funny how you agreed with me, just took a differenct direction.
>
> > You apparently think that "consortium" and "compendium" mean the same
> > thing. I suggest you buy a dictionary.
The idiot's lack of comment shows he doesn't comprehend that words
with different spellings often mean different things.
> >> > Pullease, don't make me laugh.
>
> >> For that, just read your own unintelligible posts.
> >> =======================================================
> >> See your sentance above.
>
> > The word is "sentence," moron.
>
> WOW, you're reduced to the grammar police? ROTFL
I was being generous, considering how often you display ignorance of
grade-school level spelling and syntax.
> >> > >> Unfortunately, this is not always the case. While many herbs may
> >> > >> be considered safe, some have hazardous side effects. In fact,
> >> > >> in
> >> > >> the past few years there have been several deaths related to
> >> > >> herbal products.
>
> >> > > I notice you didn't bother to cite your source for these cases.
> >> > > Nor did you state the relative or absolute risk, or how this
> >> > > would
> >> > > compare to a drug considered safe, such as aspirin, which kills
> >> > > hundreds of people each year. Are you equally opposed to use
> >> > > of aspirin?
>
> >> > Aspirin is a "natural" med.
>
> >> No, it isn't. The active ingredient in aspirin, which is
> >> acetylsalicylic acid, is a synthetic form of salicin, whose *natural*
> >> source is Willow Bark. Aspirin is the "alternative" based on this
> >> herb.
> >> ==============================================
> >> So take the natural stuff, it is available.
>
> > So you agree that aspirin is the "alternative" to Willow Bark,
> > contradicting your earlier claim. Were you lying, just ignorant of
> > the facts, or both?
Apparently both.
> >> > I'm opposed to it the same as I am to
> >> > water which is poisonous when drank to excess.
>
> >> So you are okay with anything unless taken to excess. So you have no
> >> problem with herbals that are not taken to excess. Correct?
> >> ================================================
> >> I have no problem with you even eating dog feces if that is your
> >> choice,
> >> and I don't believe anyone here would deny you your right to eat
> >> whatever you wanted. Any type of herbs included. I really don't even
> >> care if you take them to excess as people like you are apt to do when
> >> they seek to escape life.
>
> > I do not use herbs to "escape life," dumbass. In fact, I use them on
> > rare occasion. And if you don't care what others do, why do you post
> > on a subject you have zero knowledge about?
<chirp>
Silence = No proof of claims.
> >> You cannot site [sic]
> >> scientific studies addressing my concerns above, nor do you desire
> >> to.
> >> People lives be damned, agenda full speed ahead, then deny whenever
> >> caught.
>
> > I referred you to the compendium of herbal science used as a predicate
> > for their use in professional clinical care (the "E Commission"
> > Monographs), while your list of "dangerous" herbs were presented
> > without a single citation. But don't let the facts get in your way.
<chirp>
Silence, meaning his bizarre comment cannot be defended.
> >> > Did you mom use Comfrey while she was pregnant with you?
>
> >> No, idiot, because an herb contraindicated during pregnancy would be
> >> appropriately avoided. You apparently "think" your access to this
> >> of
> >> information is unique. It isn't.
> >> ===================================================
> >> See how you like to twist things? At the time of your birth your
> >> mother
> >> would never have known this. She also was most likely not alt type of
> >> person.
>
> > There is no such thing as an "alt" type of person. There are morons,
> > like you, and intelligent people who learn that natural medicine is
> > the only REAL medicine.
>
> >> As to my access being unique, I will have to call you out. You are a
> >> liar. You did not nor do you ever research the sides, with combo's or
> >> conditions.
>
> > You have no knowledge of what I do and use false charges in an effort
> > to avoid being seen as the fraud you are.
>
> >> You have not warned, you have not even cared. The blood of
> >> all who followed your misleading advice and that or similar other
> >> miscreants is on your heads.
>
> > What advice is that, moron?
<chirp>
You're an even bigger idiot than I thought. Any company that markets
a physical product, regardless of its source, is also a
manufacturer.
> >> Your daft, a moron, and can't even keep up with your own rantings of
> >> a
> >> loon.
>
> > IOW, you know I'm right and you can't counter with anyone but personal
> > attacks. Thanks for proving my point.
>
> >> > Why isn't anyone touting herbs honest and concerned about others
> >> > health?
>
> >> Remove your head from your posterior and take a look around. The
> >> rise
> >> in popularity of natural medicine demonstrates exactly that.
> >> ========================================================
> >> No bozo it isn't, and you simply cannot provide proof that would
> >> settle
> >> anything.
>
> > The proof that you're demented? Read your own posts.
>
> >> As to "popularity" as a determinator. ROTFL!!!!
>
> > If herbs were as dangerous as you falsely claim, they would be in
> > decline, not on the rise. Millions of users and many decades of safe
> > use are a testament to that fact. Spin it however you like, the
> > safety of herbal medicine compared to prescription meds is a matter of
> > fact.
>
> If that were true then what I posted wound [sic] not have to be addressed...
Your idiotic babbling does not require that.
> , and
> you would not have answered in an agenda oriented fashion.
IOW, when you couldn't produce the information requested, you came up
with these lame excuses hoping no one would notice.
> There are
> other herbs that are far more deadly than what I posted, pure poison in
> fact, but I am sure you would consider them as safe since they have med
> value. That is just how sick you are.
Incoherent babble is apparently what you do best. Actually, it's all
you do.
> As to your idiotic statement about how they would be on the decline?
> Just take the recent goings on of Hulda the Terrible and her feel good
> machine. Lots sold, none did what they claimed but gullible people such
> as yourself defended it, bought it, used it and died by it. Yuppers,
> that is some great reasoning and logic you have there and yes, you are
> an original.
Translation: I don't have an argument and can't produce the
information requested to back up my bogus claims. This is a good time
to bring up Hulda Clark.
> >> The popularity of a
> >> crowd going over a cliff like a bunch of lemmings only serves to
> >> prove
> >> mass hysteria, ignorance and the dummest SOB's alive and you stupidly
> >> place yourself right in the middle of that crowd. That is about the
> >> only
> >> correct thing I've seen you do.
>
> > What you think you "see" is meaningless. The lack of published
> > science supporting your unnatural fear of herbs is telling.
>
> Are you daft?
Three whole words without a misspelling. You're getting better.
I've never failed to explain my position on any topic I've discussed
in the ng or to cite a source. You, on the other hand, consistently
prove you can't.
> You are agenda
> oriented and truth be damned.
> You address the issues I brought up then I would consider doing a home
> run on your falacies.
Your bullshit "issues" were addressed with a challenge that you prove
your claims by citing a source. So far, you have refused. That
refusal (and your so-called arguments) proves you're a fraud.
Peter B-Aboriginal
No, the idiot cannot show me that I am wrong. So you remain......the
idiot.
Your strawman, not mine. You are suggesting there is no alternative
other than the ones you presented.
>> >> > I'm opposed to it the same as I am to
>> >> > water which is poisonous when drank to excess.
>>
>> >> So you are okay with anything unless taken to excess. So you have
>> >> no
>> >> problem with herbals that are not taken to excess. Correct?
>> >> ================================================
>> >> I have no problem with you even eating dog feces if that is your
>> >> choice,
>> >> and I don't believe anyone here would deny you your right to eat
>> >> whatever you wanted. Any type of herbs included. I really don't
>> >> even
>> >> care if you take them to excess as people like you are apt to do
>> >> when
>> >> they seek to escape life.
>>
>> > I do not use herbs to "escape life," dumbass. In fact, I use them
>> > on
>> > rare occasion. And if you don't care what others do, why do you
>> > post
>> > on a subject you have zero knowledge about?
>
> <chirp>
You post edited again, loser boy.
So you cannot understand or grasp plain english. Thank you for admitting
your have very poor reading comprehension.
You always have failed. You personally know little.
>> You are agenda
>> oriented and truth be damned.
>> You address the issues I brought up then I would consider doing a
>> home
>> run on your falacies.
>
> Your bullshit "issues" were addressed with a challenge that you prove
> your claims by citing a source. So far, you have refused. That
> refusal (and your so-called arguments) proves you're a fraud.
>
A challenge is not a rebuttal, and never addressed the issues. It was
your typical cowards way out.
EOT
PeterB - Original
>
> >> >> So take the natural stuff, it is available.
>
> >> > So you agree that aspirin is the "alternative" to Willow Bark,
> >> > contradicting your earlier claim. Were you lying, just ignorant of
> >> > the facts, or both?
>
> > Apparently both.
>
> Your strawman, not mine. You are suggesting there is no alternative
> other than the ones you presented.
If there is an alternative to the herb on which particular drug is
based, in this case aspirin, what drug might that be? Think carefully
now.
> >> >> I have no problem with you even eating dog feces if that is your
> >> >> choice,
> >> >> and I don't believe anyone here would deny you your right to eat
> >> >> whatever you wanted. Any type of herbs included. I really don't
> >> >> even
> >> >> care if you take them to excess as people like you are apt to do
> >> >> when
> >> >> they seek to escape life.
>
> >> > I do not use herbs to "escape life," dumbass. In fact, I use them
> >> > on rare occasion. And if you don't care what others do, why do you
> >> > post on a subject you have zero knowledge about?
>
<chirp>
> >> >> You freaking idiots do not warn others when you insist that your
> >> >> drug of choice is the only right one, that there is an excess, side
> >> >> effects, or danger when mixed with other things. Your agenda IS your god.
>
> >> > I do not have "a drug of choice" and do not claim that a particular
> >> > herb is "the only right one." In fact, I am on record saying that
> >> > medicinal herbs (not culinary) should be confined to temporary
> >> > relief of symptoms. Most incidence of human disease is treated
> >> > effectively using basic nutritional therapies.
>
> >> >> Poppy cock, yours is a rant of a loon, and agenda driven cut n
> >> >> paste propaganda machine with little to no research behind it.
>
> >> > So prove it. Cite your sources using published science, as I have.
> >> > You won't, of course, because the medical literature proves you're
> >> > a fraud.
Silence = No proof of claims.
> >> >> You have not warned, you have not even cared. The blood of
> >> >> all who followed your misleading advice and that or similar other
> >> >> miscreants is on your heads.
>
> >> > What advice is that, moron?
<chirp>
> >> >> At this point you cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear no
> >> >> matter how hard you try. All you care about is your personal war and
> >> >> truth be damned.
I'm an advocate of natural medicine because it changed my life by
curing various illnesses. You can like it, or leave it.
> >> >> Your daft, a moron, and can't even keep up with your own rantings
> >> >> of a loon.
IOW, you know I'm right and you can't counter with anything but
personal attacks. Thanks for proving my point.
> >> There are other herbs that are far more deadly than what I posted, pure
> >> poison in fact, but I am sure you would consider them as safe since they
> >> have med value. That is just how sick you are.
You are babbling again.
> So you cannot understand or grasp plain english. Thank you for admitting
> your have very poor reading comprehension.
There is nothing in your comments that requires comprehension at any
level, including yours.
> >> >> > >> Proceed cautiously. Herbs are not tightly
> >> >> > >> regulated like drugs and other medications....
>
> >> >> > > Nor are drugs tightly regulated in any meaningful sense of the term.
> >> >> > > FDA has said that just 10-20% of all ADRs are even reported. A
> >> >> > > conservative estimate of prescription-drug related deaths puts
> >> >> > > the figure at over 100,000 in the USA alone.
>
> >> >> > Just pure conjecture on your part, no substantiation or even
> >> >> > plausible cause.
>
> >> >> The Lazarou study conclusion (cited on FDAs own website) has been
> >> >> a conservative estimate of prescription drug related mortality for
> >> >> more than a decade. I'm not surprised that you knew nothing about it.
>
> >> >> No, read the fine print. You jumped to conclusions just like they
> >> >> did no proof from either.
>
> >> > First you dispute the existence of iatrogenic studies. Now you
> >> > pretend to understand the "fine print" in a study presented that
> >> > you knew nothing about. Care to explain how these and other
> >> > iatrogenic data about the hazards of drugs are somehow
> >> > meaningless, while a handful of possibly fatal allergic responses
> >> > to herbs carry enormous weight? And don't forget to cite your
> >> > sources.
>
> >> You expect me to do something you are unwilling to do?
>
> > I've never failed to explain my position on any topic I've discussed
> > in the ng or to cite a source. You, on the other hand, consistently
> > prove you can't.
>
> You always have failed. You personally know little.
Prove it, liar. Cite your sources. Either do it or admit you can't.
> >> You are agenda
> >> oriented and truth be damned.
> >> You address the issues I brought up then I would consider doing a
> >> home run on your falacies.
>
> > Your bullshit "issues" were addressed with a challenge that you prove
> > your claims by citing a source. So far, you have refused. That
> > refusal (and your so-called arguments) proves you're a fraud.
>
> A challenge is not a rebuttal, and never addressed the issues. It was
> your typical cowards way out.
Idiot. You couldn't back up your claims so there is nothing to
rebut. You're a fraud.
Peter B-Aboriginal
On Nov 14, 7:16 pm, "Peter B-Aboriginal" <origin...@i-frag.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> So take the natural stuff, it is available.
>
> >> > So you agree that aspirin is the "alternative" to Willow Bark,
> >> > contradicting your earlier claim. Were you lying, just ignorant
> >> > of
> >> > the facts, or both?
>
> > Apparently both.
>
> Your strawman, not mine. You are suggesting there is no alternative
> other than the ones you presented.
If there is an alternative to the herb on which particular drug is
based, in this case aspirin, what drug might that be? Think carefully
now.
=================================================
Snipping and post editing does little to support your ignorance, so I
took the liberty of deleting the rest of this boring thread, you
ignorance is encapsulated in your reply above. Am I to make sense of
that? ROTFL!
I can make an educated guess but I have found that foolish when dealing
with the uneducated.
To further confuse your poor little mind consider apple cider vinegar.
Next time I post if it contains over one thought please do not reply, it
is too confusing to you.
I will try breaking up some posts to one question/statement. Will use
one syllable words as much as possible.
Nope this helps.
PeterB - Original
wrote:
>
> > >> >> So take the natural stuff, it is available.
>
> > >> > So you agree that aspirin is the "alternative" to Willow Bark,
> > >> > contradicting your earlier claim. Were you lying, just
> > >> > ignorant of the facts, or both?
>
> > > Apparently both.
>
> > Your strawman, not mine. You are suggesting there is no
> > alternative other than the ones you presented.
>
> based, in this case aspirin, what drug might that be? Think
> carefully now.
No other "alternative" was named, proving he lied.
=================================================
> Snipping and post editing does little to support your ignorance, so I
> took the liberty of deleting the rest of this boring thread, you
> ignorance is encapsulated in your reply above. Am I to make
> sense of that? ROTFL!
What an idiot.
> I can make an educated guess but I have found that foolish when
> dealing with the uneducated.
That must explain the gibberish and non answers.
> To further confuse your poor little mind consider apple cider vinegar.
Unfortunately, your brain is already pickled.
> Next time I post if it contains over one thought please do not reply, > it is too confusing to you.
Since your posts are "thought free," that's impossible.
> I will try breaking up some posts to one question/statement. Will
> use one syllable words as much as possible.
Will that help you understand words that are spelled differently?
> Nope this helps.
Is that supposed to be a sentence, moron?
Peter B
What an idiot.
> Hope this helps.
Is that supposed to be a sentence, moron?
===================================================
Proof positive Peter is easily overloaded. (Idiot totally overlooked
ACV, as well, lol)
I'm wondering if the poor fella can eat without putting food into his
ear.
PeterB - Original
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:f396b63d-49b6-4cfd...@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
> Is that supposed to be a sentence, moron?
> ================================================
> ACV, as well, lol)
>
> I'm wondering if the poor fella can eat without putting food into his
> ear.
Now the idiot uses another of his shadow-posting aliases and still has
nothing to say.
Peter B
=================================================
No dog breath, I am using my original name. You and Jan never understood
the other, both were too stupid.
So why didn't you bother to check out ACV? Cause you are an ignorant
coward.
PeterB - Original
> "PeterB - Original" <p...@mytrashmail.com> wrote in messagenews:0410f4a8-a472-4309...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
No one cares to understand you, idiot.
> So why didn't you bother to check out ACV? Cause you are an
> ignorant coward.
No, dumbass. You said I suggested there weren't other alternatives to
Willow Bark, which was a lie. I never suggested any such thing.
trigonometry1972@gmail.com |
>
>
Canadian Medical Doctors have 6 percent of pregnant on
drugs know to harm the fetus.