Yoshi Hattori
Joel Upchurch
> The very sad thing is, that he will probably be convicted due
> to diplomatic pressure. Furthermore, I have seen NO evidence
> that he *wasn't* trying to break in.
While diplomatic pressure may have caused him to be prosecuted, I don't
think it will have much effect on the jury's decision to convict or not.
Of course the man is ruined either way. Defending himself against the
manslaughter charge will probably take everything he has. then there is
the prospect that Hatori's family may bring a civil suit against him.
Even if he is acquited of the state charges, he may face the cheerful
prospect of being charged with violating Hatori's civil rights by the
federal government.
(If your mail bounces use the address below.)
Joel Upchurch/Upchurch Computer Consulting/718 Galsworthy/Orlando, FL 32809
jo...@peora.ccur.com {uiucuxc,hoptoad,petsd,ucf-cs}!peora!joel (407) 859-0982
Brice Dowaliby
>cecc...@acsu.buffalo.edu (Julie A Cecchini) writes:
>
>> The very sad thing is, that he will probably be convicted due
>> to diplomatic pressure. Furthermore, I have seen NO evidence
>> that he *wasn't* trying to break in.
>
>While diplomatic pressure may have caused him to be prosecuted, I don't
>think it will have much effect on the jury's decision to convict or not.
>Of course the man is ruined either way. Defending himself against the
>manslaughter charge will probably take everything he has. then there is
>the prospect that Hatori's family may bring a civil suit against him.
>Even if he is acquited of the state charges, he may face the cheerful
>prospect of being charged with violating Hatori's civil rights by the
>federal government.
In light of all this hassle, maybe it's not too smart
to kill unarmed people who are not making any actual threats
to your life?
--
Brice Dowaliby, Fluent Inc., 10 Cavendish Court, Lebanon, NH 03766
bd%flu...@dartmouth.edu
I don't speak for them, they don't speak for me
DoD # 0698
Phil Ngai
>In light of all this hassle, maybe it's not too smart
>to kill unarmed people who are not making any actual threats
>to your life?
An apparently unarmed person is approaching you despite the fact
that you have a gun pointed at him and told him to stop. What
are the consequences of allowing him to get close enough to use
a hidden knife on you? Of allowing him to grab your gun, take
it away, and shoot you with it?
--
My opinions are my own.
Larry Desoto
>jo...@upchrch.UUCP (Joel Upchurch ) writes:
>>cecc...@acsu.buffalo.edu (Julie A Cecchini) writes:
>>
>>> The very sad thing is, that he will probably be convicted due
>>> to diplomatic pressure. Furthermore, I have seen NO evidence
>>> that he *wasn't* trying to break in.
>>
>>While diplomatic pressure may have caused him to be prosecuted, I don't
>>think it will have much effect on the jury's decision to convict or not.
>>Of course the man is ruined either way. Defending himself against the
>>manslaughter charge will probably take everything he has. then there is
>>the prospect that Hatori's family may bring a civil suit against him.
>>Even if he is acquited of the state charges, he may face the cheerful
>>prospect of being charged with violating Hatori's civil rights by the
>>federal government.
>In light of all this hassle, maybe it's not too smart
>to kill unarmed people who are not making any actual threats
>to your life?
The man was apparently in costume and prowling around a side door. Just
how do you suppose the homeowner was supposed to know if he was
armed or not? More than one person has gotten themselves killed making
the wrong assumption about whether or not a prowler was armed.
Frankly, most people with even the most rudimentry intelligence can
understand that it might be best to 1) stand still, 2) run away when
someone points a gun at them. The last thing you would expect an innocent
person to do in this situation is walk toward an armed man.
I don't know what happened that night. It is for the grand jury to
decide, but I really get furious with people like you that are apparently
happy the man will end up in financial ruin regardless of whether or
not he was justified.
---
Larry
Brice Dowaliby
Phil, do you have a window at work that faces toward the street? If
you do, please go take a look at it. See that woman driving down
the street? What are the consequences of her taking a grenade launcher
out of her car and launching a grenade at your window? Better shoot
her now while you have the chance, eh?
If an unarmed Asian was walking toward me (wearing a tux, I heard?)
I wouldn't be pointing my gun at him and telling him to stop, I would
ask him how I could help him.
But that's beside the point. I'll grant that we don't have all
the facts, but from the facts we do have the guy acted incredibly
irresponsibly. If someone was breaking into my house I would
leave by the back door and go to the neighboor's house where I
would call the cops.
I would not shoot him, despite the fact that I have the gun and
know how to properly use it. None of my possesions are worth
killing over.
From what we know so far, the shooter had no reason to think a
life was in jeopardy, and that is the only condition on which
it is justified to kill an intruder.
T. Archer
>In light of all this hassle, maybe it's not too smart
>to kill unarmed people who are not making any actual threats
>to your life?
The whole reason the hassle started was that he DID think that he was
threatened, and had no way of knowing that the deceased was not armed.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Michael A. Shaffer
|> >Frankly, most people with even the most rudimentry intelligence can
|> >understand that it might be best to 1) stand still, 2) run away when
|> >someone points a gun at them. The last thing you would expect an innocent
|> >person to do in this situation is walk toward an armed man.
|>
|> are commonplace. However, it is not necessarily logical to someone, especial a
|> young person, who grows up in a society where guns are all but nonexistant.
|>
|> smittie
|> --
|> Tada mono de ha nai
|> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> GEnie, MCI, AOL:Smittie All of these accounts except MCI will die on or
|> smi...@beach.csulb.edu about Dec 31. UNIX will be forwarded for 2 weeks.
Unless of course the Japanese watch American movies.
mike
Yoichi Ii
>> This is completely logical for someone who has grown up in a society
>> where guns are commonplace. However, it is not necessarily logical to
>> someone, especial a young person, who grows up in a society where guns are
>> all but nonexistant.
sha...@achilles.ctd.anl.gov (Michael A. Shaffer) writes:
>Unless of course the Japanese watch American movies.
Yeah? And you believe everything Hollywood gives you? According to HW, good
guys hardly ever get killed, and if they do, they are resurrected in the
next episode.
Mr. X
>
>>An apparently unarmed person is approaching you despite the fact
>>that you have a gun pointed at him and told him to stop. What
>>are the consequences of allowing him to get close enough to use
>>a hidden knife on you? Of allowing him to grab your gun, take
>>it away, and shoot you with it?
>
>Phil, do you have a window at work that faces toward the street? If
>you do, please go take a look at it. See that woman driving down
>the street? What are the consequences of her taking a grenade launcher
>out of her car and launching a grenade at your window? Better shoot
>her now while you have the chance, eh?
What an incredibly stupid thing to say. If a stranger is on my
property uninvited and I order them to cease their advance on my
person and they disobey, I may well blast `em. If it appears
imminent that they will come into range such that they will be able
to mount an attack upon myself, or other member of the household
and they are NOT heeding my warnings to cease and desist, I believe
there is nothing unreasonable with shooting, barring any outstanding
circumstances.
>
>If an unarmed Asian was walking toward me (wearing a tux, I heard?)
What about an unarmed Puerto Rican? Was the mention of race
relevant here?
>I wouldn't be pointing my gun at him and telling him to stop, I would
>ask him how I could help him.
If that is the way you would respond, regardless of circumstance,
then all I can say is that the world is better off without stupid
people. Circumstances can make all the difference in how one should
respond to any given development. There are many (I would hope most)
circumstances in which I would do exactly as you state above, but
likewise there are also those that I could imagine, under which I
would have a weapon ready in case someone was intending on getting
cute.
The fact is that if you are uninvited on someone's property, you
run the risk of being injured, *especially* if the owner/resident
gives you some sort of reasonable oreder and you fail to obey.
What is a person to think? Assuming the best in people is something
I think most folks want to do, but anyone whose brain actually
functions and is not from Never Never land knows that this is an
indulgence that often cannot be reasonably afforded, if one does not
wish to unnecessarily endanger themselves.
This kind of thing is a balancing act, a judgement call. Some persons
are VERY frightened, many for good reasons. I am very leery of any
person or persons that would be so quick to second guess another's
actions in such situations as you appear to be. Maybe this person is
a rotten motherfucker that saw an excuse to smoke a gook. If so, let
the court prove this and let him fry. On the other hand, perhaps there
is some reason that this person felt genuinely fearful in the
general case and that the behavior of the deceased served only to
confirm his fears to the point where he felt it was kill or be killed.
I don't know enough about the case and I suspect that neither do you,
so perhaps a little restraint is in order rather than making summary
condemnations without just cause.
>But that's beside the point. I'll grant that we don't have all
>the facts, but from the facts we do have the guy acted incredibly
>irresponsibly. If someone was breaking into my house I would
>leave by the back door and go to the neighboor's house where I
>would call the cops.
Simplistic nonsense. Would you leave your wife behind? Your kids?
Your Dogs and cats? I certainly would not. If I were alone, then
perhaps I would make my escape and call the heat. If you would
allow your family to be endangered/harmed/killed for the sake of
preserving you high and mighty sensibilities and morals, that's your
business. That's the beauty of America: anyone is free to be as stupid
as they please. Personally, I hope you have more guts than that.
>
>I would not shoot him, despite the fact that I have the gun and
>know how to properly use it. None of my possesions are worth
>killing over.
And your life? You make these absolute statements so easily it seems.
Have you ever been in such a situation? I have, and I made my best
pitch to kill the motherfucker. Dunno if he lived or died, and I don't
care much either way. I'm still here and that's all that matters to
me.
>
>From what we know so far, the shooter had no reason to think a
>life was in jeopardy, and that is the only condition on which
>it is justified to kill an intruder.
As you yourself state, you do not have all the information, so how
can you make such a statement and expect anyone to take you seriously?
How about waiting until the court does its thing and THEN make your
evaluations?
-Andy V.
Mr. X
>>Frankly, most people with even the most rudimentry intelligence can
>>understand that it might be best to 1) stand still, 2) run away when
>>someone points a gun at them. The last thing you would expect an innocent
>>person to do in this situation is walk toward an armed man.
>
>are commonplace. However, it is not necessarily logical to someone, especial a
>young person, who grows up in a society where guns are all but nonexistant.
>
impaired idiot, he knew what weapons are, even guns. They DO show
them on TV. Japan is full of weapons. I'm sure he knew what swords
were, and knives and tanks and bombers and grenades etc. and so forth.
That he would not know what a gun was is almost inconceivable. This
sounds like you're making excuses for someone else's utter and
inexcusable stupidity, if indeed he was warned away as has been stated
here.
-Andy V.
Nadja Adolf
>pn...@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes:
>
>>In article <BD.92Nov...@fluent.UUCP> bd%flu...@dartmouth.EDU writes:
>>>In light of all this hassle, maybe it's not too smart
>>>to kill unarmed people who are not making any actual threats
>>>to your life?
>>An apparently unarmed person is approaching you despite the fact
>>that you have a gun pointed at him and told him to stop. What
>>are the consequences of allowing him to get close enough to use
>>a hidden knife on you? Of allowing him to grab your gun, take
>>it away, and shoot you with it?
>If an unarmed Asian was walking toward me (wearing a tux, I heard?)
>I wouldn't be pointing my gun at him and telling him to stop, I would
>ask him how I could help him.
What makes you think there aren't Asian criminals. Ever heard of the
Vietnamese gangs? They are sort of a problem in some places.
--
The Earth Pig Bourne....
na...@node.com (prefered email address)
na...@weitek.com
justin sullivan
>What makes you think there aren't Asian criminals. Ever heard of the
>Vietnamese gangs? They are sort of a problem in some places.
I have a friend who is from Saigon, who's family left when the government
threw them out. I understand that the biggest criminals are the government,
whom NOBODY can trust.
Wayne J. Warf
CNN had Peairs on tonight as well as his defense attorney and the
prosecutor in the case. CNN did a "it's the gun's fault" morality
play. The real information was not in the commentary but in the
interviews of Peairs and the attorneys on both sides. It was
Peairs wife who answered the door and encountered the two
teens who, apparently, were boisterous and peculiarly dressed
enough to frighten her badly. She urged Peairs to arm himself.
He did and went to investigate before calling the police.
When he went to the door, Hattori, apparently taking it for
joke ran toward him and ignored two orders to stop. Peairs,
who described himself as being more frightened then ever
before in his life by the strange behavior of the rapidly
closing teen fired his revolver, wounding Hattori fatally,
in a perceived need to protect his life as well as his wife
and 3 children <11 and under>. The prosecutor seemed
sympathetic, noting that homeowners have a right to
self defense. He did not seen happy or hopeful about the
case. Peairs was very grieved, as were all involved.
--
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Wayne J. Warf -- WW...@ucs.indiana.edu -- I speak for myself only |
| Midterm Countdown-Bill and the Congress have to '94 to screw it up |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Brice Dowaliby
>bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby) writes:
>
>>jo...@upchrch.UUCP (Joel Upchurch ) writes:
>
>>>cecc...@acsu.buffalo.edu (Julie A Cecchini) writes:
>>>
>>>> The very sad thing is, that he will probably be convicted due
>>>> to diplomatic pressure. Furthermore, I have seen NO evidence
>>>> that he *wasn't* trying to break in.
>>>
>>>While diplomatic pressure may have caused him to be prosecuted, I don't
>>>think it will have much effect on the jury's decision to convict or not.
>>>Of course the man is ruined either way. Defending himself against the
>>>manslaughter charge will probably take everything he has. then there is
>>>the prospect that Hatori's family may bring a civil suit against him.
>>>Even if he is acquited of the state charges, he may face the cheerful
>>>prospect of being charged with violating Hatori's civil rights by the
>>>federal government.
>
>>In light of all this hassle, maybe it's not too smart
>>to kill unarmed people who are not making any actual threats
>>to your life?
>
>The man was apparently in costume and prowling around a side door. Just
>how do you suppose the homeowner was supposed to know if he was
>armed or not? More than one person has gotten themselves killed making
>the wrong assumption about whether or not a prowler was armed.
So what's your policy, Larry? Shoot anyone who looks suspicious
because they *might* be armed? That's ridiculous.
>Frankly, most people with even the most rudimentry intelligence can
>understand that it might be best to 1) stand still, 2) run away when
>someone points a gun at them. The last thing you would expect an innocent
>person to do in this situation is walk toward an armed man.
In the next paragraph you say that yopu don't know what happened that
night, and yet now you claim that Mr. Hattori saw the shooter
had a gun trained on him. How do you know Mr. Hattori saw
the gun? How do you know he walked toward the man after he
saw the gun?
Even if he did, is stupidity now a capital offense?
>I don't know what happened that night. It is for the grand jury to
>decide, but I really get furious with people like you that are apparently
>happy the man will end up in financial ruin regardless of whether or
>not he was justified.
You're making some really outrageous assumptions, here.
First of all, you don't have a clue what kind of person I am,
and I think it presumptuous of you to talk about "people like
me" when you don't have a clue what kind of person I am. Did you
know, for instance, that I am a gun-owning believer in the RKBA?
I am not happy that the man will end in finanical ruin if he is
innocent. I *am* happy that he is going to be tried, and if
he is found guilty of recklessly taking a human life (which
is what it looks like to me) I hope he spends a long time in jail
because he is the kind of lunatic that gives the gun-banners the
ammunition they need to try to take away my guns.
Despite the bumper-sticker, gun control means more than
hitting what you shoot at - it also means knowing when to
pull the trigger.
Michael A. Shaffer
Wow. Same here!
mike
Frank Crary
>hold of a gun and in the course of playing with it (this usually entails
>pointing it at each other) someone gets shot.
Actually, such events are extremely uncommon. There were only 677 such
deaths in 1986, out of a population of over 250,000,000: It would
be literally acurate to call this a "one in a million" accident (ok, about
two and a half in a million...) It is, however, not uncommon to _hear_
about such things, since the news reports such tragidies far more
frequently that similar, more common, non-firearms accidents.
Frank Crary
CU Boulder
Dave Schabel
>
>If an unarmed Asian was walking toward me (wearing a tux, I heard?)
Well, a tux of sorts. I believe he was wearing an old, ratty
tux as part of a Holoween costume. This presents a slightly
different view, doesn't it?
>I wouldn't be pointing my gun at him and telling him to stop, I would
>ask him how I could help him.
>
>But that's beside the point. I'll grant that we don't have all
>the facts, but from the facts we do have the guy acted incredibly
>irresponsibly. If someone was breaking into my house I would
>leave by the back door and go to the neighboor's house where I
>would call the cops.
And leave your wife and (I believe) 3 young children to
deal with "someone breaking into [your] house" alone? Not I,
my friend.
>
>I would not shoot him, despite the fact that I have the gun and
>know how to properly use it. None of my possesions are worth
>killing over.
Agreed. But how about the lives of your wife & children?
Look, I'm not saying that the shooting was justifyable in any
way.
I'm just saying that we shouldn't color our opinions
with conjecture. Wait for the facts to come out. Don't
"knee jerk".
>From what we know so far, the shooter had no reason to think a
>life was in jeopardy, and that is the only condition on which
>it is justified to kill an intruder.
Agreed. But the key phrase is "from what we know so far". Let's
all keep this in mind.
Dave Schabel
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Schabel | Opinions and comments contained herein are mine and |
sch...@calspan.com | do not necessarilly reflect those of Calspan Corp or |
| its customers. |
Phil Ngai
>are all but nonexistant" I meant a society where the common man has NEVER had
>open access to weapons and guns have never been available to the public at
>large. As a result Japanese news programs are not filled with and indeed seldom
>(by comparison) contain items where one civilian shot and killed another
In New York City two undercover cops were trying to arrest a woman.
One had her covered with a gun, the other was searching her purse for
a weapon. Three other uniformed cops came along and assumed the
undercover cops were robbing the woman. They told the undercover
cop with a gun to freeze and when he didn't, they shot him. Emptied
a semiautomatic and a revolver into the undercover cop. The one with
a semiauto was reloading in preparation to shoot again before he
realized he had shot another cop.
Alan Ezekiel
>
>But that's beside the point. I'll grant that we don't have all
>the facts, but from the facts we do have the guy acted incredibly
>irresponsibly.
From what little I know about the case, I would agree with you.
> If someone was breaking into my house I would
>leave by the back door and go to the neighboor's house where I
>would call the cops.
That would be unwise. If someone was attempting forced entry into
your house, and did not depart once you made your presence inside
known, you must assume they intend to hurt you. (Unarmed criminals
after mere property will generally avoid occupied dwellings).
By going outside, you make yourself vulnerable to the intruder or
their compatriots. And if you have dependents in your house, you
may be leaving them unprotected. Proper response is to barricade
yourself and your dependents in some area of the house (a bedroom
is preferred) where you can see all entrances and exits clearly.
Call the police and wait in your "safe room" until they arrive to
deal with the problem.
If the intruder breaks down the door to your safe room, shoot them
without warning. Anyone who breaks into your house (despite your
announced presence) and comes looking for you is a clear threat to
your safety.
>From what we know so far, the shooter had no reason to think a
>life was in jeopardy, and that is the only condition on which
>it is justified to kill an intruder.
Almost correct. In most jurisdictions, one may legally kill to
prevent death or grave bodily harm (i.e. maiming, rape, etc).
-- Alane --
/-----------------------------------------------------------------\
/ NOBODY shares my opinions, | "I am a jelly doughnut" \
/ especially not my employer | -- President John F Kennedy \
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
Brice Dowaliby
pn...@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes:
>In article <BD.92Nov...@fluent.UUCP> bd%flu...@dartmouth.EDU writes:
>>But that's beside the point. I'll grant that we don't have all
>>the facts, but from the facts we do have the guy acted incredibly
>>irresponsibly. If someone was breaking into my house I would
>>leave by the back door and go to the neighboor's house where I
>>would call the cops.
>
>Sure, go ahead and abandon your family. Your two year old son.
>At least you might survive.
Phil, your ignorance about my family is matched only by your
ignorance about the proper use of firearms.
Joel Upchurch
> In article <SMITTIE.92...@beach.csulb.edu> smi...@csulb.edu (Smittie
> >Here in the States it is not all that uncommon to hear about kids who get a
> >hold of a gun and in the course of playing with it (this usually entails
> >pointing it at each other) someone gets shot.
>
> Actually, such events are extremely uncommon. There were only 677 such
> deaths in 1986, out of a population of over 250,000,000: It would
> be literally acurate to call this a "one in a million" accident (ok, about
Actually I think 677 would include everybody under 25. For children
under 15 there were 280 accidental firearm deaths in 87. I don't know
how many of those involve one child shooting another child. I assume in
some cases the accidental shot was fired by an 'adult'. By the time you
get in the late teens then a lot of the firearms accidents are probably
hunting related rather then accidents around the home. To put the 280
figure in perspective there were 1300 accidental drownings for children
under 15 in 87.
justin sullivan
>In New York City two undercover cops were trying to arrest a woman.
>One had her covered with a gun, the other was searching her purse for
>a weapon. Three other uniformed cops came along and assumed the
>undercover cops were robbing the woman. They told the undercover
>cop with a gun to freeze and when he didn't, they shot him. Emptied
>a semiautomatic and a revolver into the undercover cop. The one with
>a semiauto was reloading in preparation to shoot again before he
>realized he had shot another cop.
But they're not at all triggy happy, are they? NOOOOO... Empties two guns
into another scum-sucking pig, and then feels the need to empty ANOTHER
one into his bullet-ridden body? I thought cops were only supposed to shoot
if necessary and then not shoot to kill (unless threatened by another
miltant pig with a bigger gun, I guess). Why didn't they just beat the
'muggers' over the head with their clubs? Cops seem to enjoy that, too.
Okay, so it was an accident that he shot another officer, but this reminds
me of those phrases like: "No, I didn't murder him, officer. He fell on the
butcher knife! (30 or 40 times)" Honestly, folks..
Just goes to show you: Never trust a cop. Every cop I ever look at looks like
he thinks everyone around him is a serial killer on the run. If cops had their
way, they would shoot everyone they thought might have done something wrong
at some point in their life on-site.
Dan Sorenson
>Even if he did, is stupidity now a capital offense?
In many situations, it always has been. Just ask the guy
who divided his forces at the Little Big Horn, or the folks at Wisby
who tried to fight the Danes, or the Egyptian Army who tried to cross
the Red Sea on chariots, or even Marie Curie. She died as a result of
stupidity -- what she *didn't* know is what killed her.
< Dan Sorenson, DoD #1066 z1...@exnet.iastate.edu vik...@iastate.edu >
< ISU only censors what I read, not what I say. Don't blame them. >
< "This isn't an answer, it's a pagan dance around a midnight fire >
< written in intellectual runes." -- Rich Young >
j...@nature.berkeley.edu
[part deleted]
] Indeed, it was, and it's no less a mournful death because of it.
]Still, one has to wonder not only what he was thinking, but why he
]went towards a man holding a gun on him. It is possible he didn't see
]the gun, it is possible he saw it as an offering to go shooting, it is
]also possible that he was sleepwalking. None have been refuted, and we
]will never truly know why he did what he did. The idea that he did not
]know it was a real gun, however, points to a terminal lack of common sense
]in this case, and one for which I suspect most of us are quite sorry about.
My own personal theory on this event-we-do-not-have-
enough-information-on-to-judge is that the two youths were
dressed for a Halloween party, thought they had found the
Halloween party, and if he saw the gun, Hattori thought someone
from the party was trying to scare them with a fake. It may
have been explained to Hattori that Halloween is a time people
dress funny and try to scare each other. It may even account
for any reported boisterous behavior when the wife of the shooter
answered the door.
Since it was many days before the actual Halloween date, the
homeowners would not be expecting trick-or-treaters or thinking of
Halloween in any way. If it had been actual Halloween, the woman
might not have been as frightened at the door, but again she might
have been, since Halloween has been used as a cover for crimes.
In any case, theories aside, anyone with common sense can
make a fatal mistake -- none of us are immune, I think.
Joan V
KENNEDY JAMES SCOT
> My own personal theory on this event-we-do-not-have-
>enough-information-on-to-judge is that the two youths were
>dressed for a Halloween party, thought they had found the
>Halloween party, and if he saw the gun, Hattori thought someone
>from the party was trying to scare them with a fake. It may
>have been explained to Hattori that Halloween is a time people
>dress funny and try to scare each other. It may even account
>for any reported boisterous behavior when the wife of the shooter
>answered the door.
>
> Since it was many days before the actual Halloween date, the
>homeowners would not be expecting trick-or-treaters or thinking of
>Halloween in any way. If it had been actual Halloween, the woman
>might not have been as frightened at the door, but again she might
>have been, since Halloween has been used as a cover for crimes.
>
> In any case, theories aside, anyone with common sense can
>make a fatal mistake -- none of us are immune, I think.
>
>Joan V
With 20/20 hindsight, perhaps a warning shot would have been appropriate.
That, along with more verbal commands might have averted the incident.
Warning shots usually aren't a good idea, and not knowing any details
maybe it wasn't possible in this instance.
Just my speculation,
C. D. Tavares
> But they're not at all triggy happy, are they? NOOOOO... Empties two guns
> into another scum-sucking pig, and then feels the need to empty ANOTHER
> one into his bullet-ridden body?
Bullet-ridden? Ha ha ha ha! You obviously haven't heard the story.
These guys blew something like 14 to 17 rounds at the two undercover cops.
They put TWO into his bullet-proof vest, and ONE into his neck. And that's
it. The other rounds? Well, they don't call NYC "dangerous" for nothing.
--
c...@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR c...@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...
Mark Urbin
>In New York City two undercover cops were trying to arrest a woman.
>One had her covered with a gun, the other was searching her purse for
>a weapon. Three other uniformed cops came along and assumed the
>undercover cops were robbing the woman. They told the undercover
>cop with a gun to freeze and when he didn't, they shot him. Emptied
>a semiautomatic and a revolver into the undercover cop. The one with
>a semiauto was reloading in preparation to shoot again before he
>realized he had shot another cop.
I read about this one in the Friday's (11/20/92) Boston Globe. That
article didn't mention anything about the Transit Cops (the ones that did
the shooting) yelling `Freeze'. The article did mention that, "Within
seconds, the two white Transit Authority Officers unleased 21 rounds of
gunfire. One even stopped to reload, then resumed firing before realizing
they had shot a fellow undercover officer..." The officer at the wrong end
of the guns was listed in serious condition with a bullet in his neck. Two
other shots were stopped by the officers vest. So there were nineteen stray
rounds during that encounter. Sounds like any bystanders were at more
risk from the Transit cops than their target.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Urbin Racal-Datacom Boxborough, MA ur...@interlan.interlan.com
These opinions are mine. No one else will admit to them.
"Personally, I dig Kirk's no-bullshit, nondiplomatic attitude. If it is
something he can't sleep with, or at least kiss in a painful looking way, he
locks phasers or throws a right hook or some hyper-testosterone response."
-- netrekkie
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joel Upchurch
his attorney and the prosecuting attorney appearing on Larry King.
Is it just me or did this strike anybody else as rather unusual? If the
state of Louisiana was really serious about the prosecution I don't
think they would be doing something like that. I suspect that what will
happen once the publicity is off they either drop the charges or Piers
cops a plea that doesn't involve any jail time.
Christopher Morton
> pn...@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes:
>
> >In article <BD.92Nov...@fluent.UUCP> bd%flu...@dartmouth.EDU writes:
> >>In light of all this hassle, maybe it's not too smart
> >>to kill unarmed people who are not making any actual threats
> >>to your life?
> >
> >An apparently unarmed person is approaching you despite the fact
> >that you have a gun pointed at him and told him to stop. What
> >are the consequences of allowing him to get close enough to use
> >a hidden knife on you? Of allowing him to grab your gun, take
> >it away, and shoot you with it?
>
> Phil, do you have a window at work that faces toward the street? If
> you do, please go take a look at it. See that woman driving down
> the street? What are the consequences of her taking a grenade launcher
> out of her car and launching a grenade at your window? Better shoot
> her now while you have the chance, eh?
What's the LIKELIHOOD of her having a grenade launcher? What's the LIKELIHOOD
of somebody who sees you pointing a gun at them, yet refuses to halt, having
GOOD intentions?
> If an unarmed Asian was walking toward me (wearing a tux, I heard?)
> I wouldn't be pointing my gun at him and telling him to stop, I would
> ask him how I could help him.
>
If he'd previously appeared to have tried to gain unauthorized entry to my
home, and continued to do so, I certainly might point a gun at him. His being
Asian is irrelevant. Asians commit crimes just like anybody else.
> I would not shoot him, despite the fact that I have the gun and
> know how to properly use it. None of my possesions are worth
> killing over.
Is it worth it to you to let him take the gun? Can you read his mind and know
that he only wants your stereo and not your wife?
> From what we know so far, the shooter had no reason to think a
> life was in jeopardy, and that is the only condition on which
> it is justified to kill an intruder.
When somebody advances in the face of armed force, it indicates to me that he
has some serious intentions.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?"
------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Stephenson
but because they only hit him three times out of 17 shots.
34A...@cmuvm.bitnet
>
>The news emphasizes what people want to hear, and reporting about
>gun accidents is more newsworthy because people want to know
>about it. A conspiracy by the media to publicize such accidents
>in order to push a gun control agenda just ain't true.
>
>- Bill Lambert
HAR! I needed a good laugh today. If you want to test whether
such a media policy "ain't true" or not, try to buy some air time
on NBC, CBS, or ABC network TV for an ad SUPPORTING the RKBA.
Just try.
You'll get quite an education.
W. K. Gorman
Henry E. Schaffer
>In article <74...@bigbird.hri.com.hri.com>, bl...@hri.com (Bill Lambert) says:
>>
>>The news emphasizes what people want to hear, and reporting about
>>gun accidents is more newsworthy because people want to know
>>about it. A conspiracy by the media to publicize such accidents
>>in order to push a gun control agenda just ain't true.
>>
>>- Bill Lambert
>
>HAR! I needed a good laugh today. If you want to test whether
>such a media policy "ain't true" or not, try to buy some air time
>on NBC, CBS, or ABC network TV for an ad SUPPORTING the RKBA.
>
>Just try.
>
>You'll get quite an education.
IMHO Bill Lambert is absolutely correct - but note carefully what
he is saying (and what he is not saying.) He's not saying there isn't
a "media policy", he's saying that there isn't a "conspiracy".
He's right - there isn't a "conspiracy", there just is a
"similarity" because the same factors which cause NBC to reach its
policy also cause CBS and ABC to reach their policies. You end up
with the same results as if there were a conspiracy, but there isn't
one. (Almost) every newspaper and TV station will publicize
firearms misuse/accidents because they will all (independently) feel
that such incidents are "newsworthy". The same urban-background-
journalism-school graduates who fear/distrust/misunderstand guns and
the RKBA and who have lead CBS into its policy on accepting ads and
public service announcements also work at NBC and ABC (and every other
station and newspaper) and reach the same policy for the same
reasons without entering into a conspiracy.
It is important to understand this - for otherwise you may spend
your effort in fighting something which doesn't exist and which will
not help your cause.
--henry schaffer
Christopher Morton
> With 20/20 hindsight, perhaps a warning shot would have been appropriate.
A warning shot is rarely in order. Accidentally shooting an uninvolved party
isn't any better than shooting a stupid pseudo-intruder.
KENNEDY JAMES SCOT
>> With 20/20 hindsight, perhaps a warning shot would have been appropriate.
cm...@NCoast.ORG (Christopher Morton) replies:
>A warning shot is rarely in order. Accidentally shooting an uninvolved party
>isn't any better than shooting a stupid pseudo-intruder.
I've erased my original post, but I think I said that a warning shot is
almost always a bad idea (at least I meant to say that). Again, this is
really just a load of speculation, but IF the shooter had known that Hattori
didn't realize the danger he was in (if that was even the case) THEN
firing a round or two into a nearby backstop (mud pit, sand pile, etc.,
if one was even available) MIGHT have convinced Hattori of the seriousness of
the situation. That is what I meant when I said 'perhaps'. I'm sorry to
have caused any confusion. I made a lot of assumptions that I didn't
explain. Lose any one of the assumptions, and warning shots don't make sense.
-- Scott
ken...@a.cs.okstate.edu
Mr. X
>> I don't buy that for an instant. Unless he was some sort of brain
>> impaired idiot, he knew what weapons are, even guns. They DO show
>> them on TV. Japan is full of weapons. I'm sure he knew what swords
>> were, and knives and tanks and bombers and grenades etc. and so forth.
>> That he would not know what a gun was is almost inconceivable. This
>> sounds like you're making excuses for someone else's utter and
>> inexcusable stupidity, if indeed he was warned away as has been stated
>> here.
>
>public in Japan are toys, non-firing replicas.
This is sheer stupidity. Guns ought not be toys.
>citizen might pull out a real gun and shoot you simply for seeking information
>was, quite possibly, a completely inconceivable concept to Hattori. If the
>concept was inconcievable then it is also possible that the danger presented by
>Mr. Peairs never registered in Hattori's mind. Hattori might have realized the
>danger present more readily had Mr. Peairs been holding a sword or a knife.
Then Hattori was the victim of other people's irresponsibility, and I
mean from back home. When you go to a foreign land, it is YOUR
responsibility to have all the vital information needed to keep
yourself safe. Different lands have different laws and customs
and you are subject to them, regardless of how much you may or
may not agree with them. This reminds me of that consummate asshole
Paul McCartny when he waltzed into Tokyo with several ounces of
marijuana (and coke??) with him, thinking that he could just do it.
Lucky for him the Japanese were kind enough to let him go. Had he been
in (shucks, I forget... is it Malaysia??) one of those SE Asian island
nations, he would have been arrested and EXECUTED on conviction.
I am sad that this young person was killed, and perhaps the shooter
was not justified, but from what I have read here so far, it seems that
the poor youth was either terminally stupid, or shamefully ill prepared
by his parents/society/whomever to make a long term journey to a
foreign land. There is not much that one can take for granted when
traveling abroad. In some places, the most innocent indiscretion is
enough to make your life forfeit. It is hard enough when you are on
the ball; one cannot afford go around with their head seated firmly
in their anus and expect to get away with it.
My question is: if he was not properly educated, why not?
>
>I did not mean to imply that Hattori did not know what guns were. It is
>reasonable to assume that Hattori had seen pictures of guns in books and guns
>on TV. To assume that he therefore understand the ramifications of having one
>pointed at him does not automatically follow.
What about the ramifications of what was probably an expression of
fear and horror on the face of the shooter? I doubt he was smiling
kindly and speaking in a gentle and polite tone. Did Hattori not
know what fear/anger/hostility were?? I am sorry, but this whole
premise that he had no concept of what was transpiring sounds like
just so much apologetic, myopic bullshit to me. It would take an
awful lot of powerful convincing to get me to believe otherwise.
However, if you or anyone else has any conclusive evidence to support
this assertion, I would honestly love to see it.
>
>The fact that Hattori did not grow up in this culture and that Peairs had no
>way of knowing that adds an interesting dimension to this whole discussion. It
>is necessary to acknowledge that cultural experience provides one with the
>problem solving tools necessary to survive in that culture. Hence, it is
>reasonable to consider that Hattori was handicapped in the situation. But it's
>also completely unreasonable to hold Peairs responsible for that.
In such a case I agree quite strongly. The argument cuts both ways.
-Andy V.
Rikiya Asano
>For 150,000 yen you can go to a place that will teach you survial
>tactics for one week. They throw you in some mountains somewhere
>and you have to survive in tents and find your own food.
>Some of the instructors act as "terrorists" and attack the students
>in the middle of the night. They also teach you how to shoot guns.
>They said that students and business people were taking these courses.
I am very disturded by this. I think that these activites will send a
bad message to most Americans and give many Japanese the wrong idea.
This "Rambo"
training method is all wrong. The key to surviving in America is
intelligence and "a cautious spirit and more importantly "openess of
mind". There is no one in Nippon or America more Pissed off at this
event that I. But, to have young or any Japanese for that matter
trainied to use a gun for the sole purpose of
protection is stooooopid! Would not Nippon become the "terrordome" that
America is? I have no doubt that these Rambo training camps will make
Japanese kill
Japanese and other in Nippon more quickly and more easily. Just like in
America.
My heart is sad now by this information. Nippon will destroy itself from within
the inside. Just like America!
>Also there are information services that sell information about the
>dangers and terrorists in various countries.
I think that the use of the word terrorist is even more danger. I think that
it would bring about negative responses that would send a lot of people right
to hell. Americans can hardly be considered as "terrorist" in the terror sense
of the word, of course. This individuals was an "Asshole with a gun"
ready to "Shoot anyone without {family values} or isn't like him". For
those of you who have a problem with this I'm saying in this statement
that this "killing" was motivated by race. But this should not throw
Japaese off of their square. Japanese must win these 'frontiers' and
help to create a new involved humanity.
I say frontiers because Japanese and most Asian in Asia are relatively naive
to the outside. Naive does not mean Stooopid in this case. Just unfamiliar. The
average Japanese only had contact with the outside for about 140 or so
odd years
(counting from perry's entrance). A gun is never the answer. Although, the "By
any means neccesary" laws applies also.
>Maybe many Japanese people don't know what goes on in other countries.
>I think this incident will help in getting Japanese people educated.
I agree fully! Kibou wa mirai ni arimasu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mr. X
>In article <1992Dec1.2...@cbfsb.cb.att.com>, os...@cbnewsb.cb.att.com (Mr. X) writes:
>
># My question is: if he was not properly educated, why not?
>
>Maybe many Japanese people don't know what goes on in other countries.
>I think this incident will help in getting Japanese people educated.
Well, I certainly hope so. This little tragedy looks like one
that could have been ever so easily avoided. I'm just so sorry
for his parents.
-Andy V.
Mr. X
>Hitoshi Doi writes:
>
>>For 150,000 yen you can go to a place that will teach you survial
>I am very disturded by this. I think that these activites will send a
>bad message to most Americans and give many Japanese the wrong idea.
>This "Rambo"
>training method is all wrong. The key to surviving in America is
>intelligence and "a cautious spirit and more importantly "openess of
>mind". There is no one in Nippon or America more Pissed off at this
>event that I. But, to have young or any Japanese for that matter
>trainied to use a gun for the sole purpose of
>protection is stooooopid!
I agree that the training, as described in the article, sounds a
bit ill matched to the task of allowing a Japanese person fare
well in America. But to say that it will cause havoc is sheer
nonsense.
>Would not Nippon become the "terrordome" that America is?
Terrordome? America? Are you KIDDING?? What America are you
talking about? I have spent most of my life living in NYC,
arguably the most dangerous city in America to live in, and while
there is far more violence here than I feel the ought to be, there
is not nearly as much as the media would have you believe. In all
my years of frequenting the worst neighborhoods in NY (South Bronx,
Harlem, Bushwick, lower east side, etc), I have been attacked only
once, and it was my own stupidity that precipitated the assault.
I'm not saying violence is not a problem, for surely it is, but the
problems that are REALLY flushing this country down the tube are
only remotely linked to violence, at best.
>I have no doubt that these Rambo training camps will make Japanese kill
>Japanese and other in Nippon more quickly and more easily. Just like in
>America.
Oh please, put a sock in it. This is utter crap. If you do not
believe me, go live in a rotten city and find out for yourself.
Sheesh.
>My heart is sad now by this information. Nippon will destroy itself from
>within the inside. Just like America!o
Yeah, and the world was supposed to end a few weeks ago, according
the the idiot Sung Myung Moon. Get a life, pardon me please.
>
>
>This individuals was an "Asshole with a gun"
>ready to "Shoot anyone without {family values} or isn't like him".
This is capricious. I could also be capricious and call you
an "asshole with a terminal", but I believe I know my manners
just a bit better than that.
>For
>those of you who have a problem with this I'm saying in this statement
>that this "killing" was motivated by race.
I see. Pray tell, exactly how is it hat you know this? Did he
say this? Did you read his mind? Perhaps you are guilty of
precisely the prejudice that you accuse him of. Back to the
first grade with you!
>But this should not throw
>Japaese off of their square. Japanese must win these 'frontiers' and
>help to create a new involved humanity.
>I say frontiers because Japanese and most Asian in Asia are relatively naive
>to the outside. Naive does not mean Stoopid in this case. Just unfamiliar. The
>average Japanese only had contact with the outside for about 140 or so
>odd years
Well, I guess I'll have to forget my manners and call this one as I
see it: RACIST ASSHOLE! Oooo the poor naive little Japs and Chinks...
Get bent. You imply they are not capable of thinking their way
out of a wet paper bag. The Japanese and Chinese and other Asian
peoples have seen more violence throughout their history that you
could shake a fucking stick at. They have not, in general, just
fallen off the proverbial turnip truck. Your implications are vile,
obscene and rather repulsive. What makes it even worse is your
rotten, ignorant, and self deluded attempt to cloak your words in
false piety and moral superioriy. I have more respect for the
Klansman that says "nigger go home". At least he is forthright,
however misguided he may be.
Your attitude reminds me of the Catholic Inquisitor that declares
someone a heretic and has him burned alive in the holy name of
Jesus Christ. And to top it off, they cried about it! Shit.
-Andy V.
Hitoshi Doi
# Hitoshi Doi writes:
#
# >For 150,000 yen you can go to a place that will teach you survial
# >tactics for one week. They throw you in some mountains somewhere
# >and you have to survive in tents and find your own food.
# >Some of the instructors act as "terrorists" and attack the students
# >in the middle of the night. They also teach you how to shoot guns.
# >They said that students and business people were taking these courses.
#
# I am very disturded by this. I think that these activites will send a
# bad message to most Americans and give many Japanese the wrong idea.
Although this was aired right after the incident in the US,
I think most Japanese people know that this "survival" training
is not for the US. It's for South American and other Asian countries.
# >Also there are information services that sell information about the
# >dangers and terrorists in various countries.
#
# I think that the use of the word terrorist is even more danger. I think that
# it would bring about negative responses that would send a lot of people right
# to hell. Americans can hardly be considered as "terrorist" in the terror sense
# of the word, of course.
It is not just America that is being targetted. I think plenty of
Japanese go to other "dangerous" countries with real terrorists.
--
Hitoshi Doi, International Open Systems Engineering d...@jrd.dec.com
Japan Research and Development Center decwrl!jrd.dec.com!doi
Digital Equipment Corporation Japan [from Japan: d...@dec-j.co.jp]
Smittie
>transpiring sounds like just so much apologetic, myopic bullshit to me. It
>would take an awful lot of powerful convincing to get me to believe
>otherwise. However, if you or anyone else has any conclusive evidence to
>support this assertion, I would honestly love to see it.
Based on what you have said here I think it is safe to assume tha tyou never
commit any kind of fax paux when you visit foreign countries. You know before
you go whether the country is a one kiss or a two kiss country. You know
whether you should bow or shake hands. You know that showing the soles of your
shoes is an insult of severe ramifications. You learn all of this BEFORE you go
and are then able to assimilate all of it so that you never make a mistake
while visiting that foreign land. Or have you ever visited a foreign country?
Have you ever lived in a foreign country? From your statements I would guess
not. What you suggest is wholely irrational on a practical level. Moveover, if
it were possible to learn all of the things you suggest before coming here then
there would be little need to come here.
But fear not. All of the student who come here after will have been thru SWAP
school so as to know how to survive the likes of Peairs.
smittie
--
Tada mono de ha nai
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
GEnie, MCI, AOL:Smittie All of these accounts except MCI will die on or
smi...@beach.csulb.edu about Dec 31. UNIX will be forwarded for 2 weeks.
Rikiya Asano
>Yeah, and the world was supposed to end a few weeks ago, according
> the the idiot Sung Myung Moon. Get a life, pardon me please.
Why must you drag him into this you dic*! Who died and left you God!
Your a joke. I don't think that you could afford a Carngie Mellon
University education
in Undergrad and Grad in CASH!!! Personally, I don't want to get into a
confront ation with you. But, since most of you prefer to call me
racist, well here goes.
I agree that the training, as described in the article, sounds a
bit ill matched to the task of allowing a Japanese person fare
well in America. But to say that it will cause havoc is sheer
nonsense.
> I agree that the training, as described in the article, sounds a
> bit ill matched to the task of allowing a Japanese person fare
> well in America. But to say that it will cause havoc is sheer
> nonsense.
I really don't need you to agree with me.
>Terrordome? America? Are you KIDDING?? What America are you
> talking about? I have spent most of my life living in NYC,
> arguably the most dangerous city in America to live in, and while
> there is far more violence here than I feel the ought to be, there
> is not nearly as much as the media would have you believe. In all
> my years of frequenting the worst neighborhoods in NY (South Bronx,
> Harlem, Bushwick, lower east side, etc), I have been attacked only
> once, and it was my own stupidity that precipitated the assault.
Obviously, you are White. And, stupid. Everyone knows that America is
the crime,
violence and murder capital of the world. Since, America's inception, You dick,
violence ha played part in Americans history. From the Semi-genocide of
the native American to Black African Slavery to the American Civil War
to(need I go on you dickhead) I know some places in NYC that you would
never walk out of. Come the Harlem with me Faggot(oh! sorry fallas)wimp.
>I'm not saying violence is not a problem, for surely it is, but the
> problems that are REALLY flushing this country down the tube are
> only remotely linked to violence, at best.
Your show some traces of intelligent life.
>Sheesh.
Now, I know that you are White!
>This is capricious. I could also be capricious and call you
> an "asshole with a terminal", but I believe I know my manners
> just a bit better than that.
No. anwser!
>>those of you who have a problem with this I'm saying in this statement
>>that this "killing" was motivated by race.
>I see. Pray tell, exactly how is it hat you know this? Did he
> say this? Did you read his mind? Perhaps you are guilty of
> precisely the prejudice that you accuse him of. Back to the
> first grade with you!
Fuc* you
>Well, I guess I'll have to forget my manners and call this one as I
> see it: RACIST ASSHOLE! Oooo the poor naive little Japs and Chinks...
Here we go again. Another Whiteman projecting his personality on me again.
>Get bent.
Corny. get bent. Your a clown man!
>I have more respect for the
> Klansman that says "nigger go home". At least he is forthright,
> however misguided he may be.
Look at this shit!! Oh! the klanman is "misguided" is he. Dude, if I
ever see you I'm going to Fuck you up on sight. Well, maybe I wont have
the time. But, you should be careful(especially in Harlem) well I finish
this later......
Rikiya Asano
>I think most Japanese people know that this "survival" training
>is not for the US. It's for South American and other Asian countries.
Bad song, Bad song.
>It is not just America that is being targetted. I think plenty of
>Japanese go to other "dangerous" countries with real terrorists.
little confused at your train of thought. But I answer with what I see;
The point that I was making is that no matter who is the perceived
"terrorist" humans must, with Japanese in perticular and Asian in
general, stop "training/conditioning" for violence. We are wiping
ourselves out. Though, my calculations, when God said, "Be fruitful and
multiply". We, as humans, are way
off the mark and completely out of sync. Poor creatures driven by ego,
pride, lust and tradition. Wait let me go back up to this guy again! See
ya' dude.
Rikiya Asano
Not again please! I'm getting ready for finals now. I know
some places in Harlem and you South Bronx that you would walk out of. I
wasn't going to answer you but you are interesting.
Michael A. Shaffer
In article <Yf7X6vC00...@andrew.cmu.edu>, Rikiya Asano <ra...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|> Hitoshi Doi writes:
|>
|> >For 150,000 yen you can go to a place that will teach you survial
|> >tactics for one week. They throw you in some mountains somewhere
|> >and you have to survive in tents and find your own food.
|> >Some of the instructors act as "terrorists" and attack the students
|> >in the middle of the night. They also teach you how to shoot guns.
|> >They said that students and business people were taking these courses.
|>
|> I am very disturded by this. I think that these activites will send a
|> bad message to most Americans and give many Japanese the wrong idea.
|> This "Rambo"
|> training method is all wrong. The key to surviving in America is
|> intelligence and "a cautious spirit and more importantly "openess of
Partially correct. My impression was that these courses were designed
not just for travellers to the US. In some places in the middle east
the dangers do resemble a war zone. Heck much of the middle east is
a war zone. Simulated terrorist attacks are appropriate for travellers
to that area of the world.
As for survival in America there are several important factors.
1. Awareness. This is the big one. You must know where you are, where
not to go and above all what to look for to avoid attack by a two
legged predator.
2. Understanding the culture.For those not used to living in a place
where an ordinary peasant has at least a partial right to defend
himself you must understand that you should stop advancing if
someone points a gun at you. Above all do not run towards a nervous
man who is pointing a gun at you. It probably is not a joke.
3. Try not to resemble the local two legged predators.
I don't understand what you mean by openess of mind. In my dialect that
means that you are willing to accept a wide range of ideas or to at least
consider them. I don't see how that applies here.
|> mind". There is no one in Nippon or America more Pissed off at this
|> event that I. But, to have young or any Japanese for that matter
|> trainied to use a gun for the sole purpose of
|> protection is stooooopid! Would not Nippon become the "terrordome" that
Doesn't seem like learning to use a gun for protection is such a bad
idea. That is one of the prime missions of firearms.
|> America is? I have no doubt that these Rambo training camps will make
Knowing how to protect ourselfs has not made the US a terrordome. The
problems we have had with violence have incresed even while skill
with a gun, has decresed. Our violence problems are due to cultural
problems that are far more complex than your simple minded and bigotted
statements indicate.
|> Japanese kill
|> Japanese and other in Nippon more quickly and more easily. Just like in
|> America.
Horse apples.
|> My heart is sad now by this information. Nippon will destroy itself from within
|> the inside. Just like America!
America is headed for trouble but for reason that you don't seem to
understand. Some examples.
1. Breakdown of the family unit. Likely due in large part to a
socialistic welfare system which fosters dependancy and encourages
the break up of families via. the rules of qualification. This is
a topic way beyond the scope of a simple post. Books have been
written on the subject.
2. Loss of a moral consensus. Due in part to number 1 as well as the
teaching of relativistic morality. There can't be much consensus
when what is right depends on how you feel at the moment.
3. Excessive government intervention in every day life. The war on
drugs for example. Compare with the violence of the prohibition
days.
4. Excessive government control of the economy. Government spending
and borrowing is consuming much of our wealth and destroying our
industry. Most of this is entitlements but excesive commitment of
US military personnel and equipment to the defense of other
nations is also a significant factor.
5. Government sponsored "solutions" that only make the problems worse.
For example solving the crime problem by disarming the victims.
|>
|> >Also there are information services that sell information about the
|> >dangers and terrorists in various countries.
|>
|> I think that the use of the word terrorist is even more danger. I think that
|> it would bring about negative responses that would send a lot of people right
|> to hell. Americans can hardly be considered as "terrorist" in the terror sense
Again this is probably not aimed at the US travellers.
|> of the word, of course. This individuals was an "Asshole with a gun"
Well we know he had a gun. Whether or not he resembles the south end
of a north bound horse has yet to be determined. You are however
making your own status in that regard fairly clear.
|> ready to "Shoot anyone without {family values} or isn't like him". For
How did family values get into this. I don't remeber anything about
checking out the kids value system. I don't even remember hearing
anything about the homeowners values. It sounds like you have a
rather large chip on your shoulder. Maybe you should get some professional
help.
|> those of you who have a problem with this I'm saying in this statement
|> that this "killing" was motivated by race. But this should not throw
This is wild conjecture on your part. Or were you present? Did you
here him say "I ain't gonna have no lousy Nips on my property"?
Get a clue Jerk! The courts will look into this.
|> Japaese off of their square. Japanese must win these 'frontiers' and
|> help to create a new involved humanity.
Involved humanity? What is that? Sounds like some kind of code word.
I often find myself helping other around me with various problems
financial and otherwise. I volunteer at a local childrens club. Am I
part of the involved humanity or do I need to espouse a certain
political viewpoint to qualify?
|> I say frontiers because Japanese and most Asian in Asia are relatively naive
|> to the outside. Naive does not mean Stooopid in this case. Just unfamiliar.
Agreed. Uninformed is not the same as stupid.
The
|> average Japanese only had contact with the outside for about 140 or so
|> odd years
|> (counting from perry's entrance). A gun is never the answer. Although, the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Like most sweeping statements this is not accurate. They aren't
always the answer but sometimes they are a very good answer. It depends
on the questions. If guns are so damed useless why do we spend so much
money providing them to the cops. We could save even more money by
disarming our military. And we can immediatly pull all of our troops
back to the US and stop supplying defense to asia and europe. They
won't need any time to beef up their own defenses since guns are never
the answer.
"By
|> any means neccesary" laws applies also.
|>
|> >Maybe many Japanese people don't know what goes on in other countries.
|> >I think this incident will help in getting Japanese people educated.
|>
|> I agree fully! Kibou wa mirai ni arimasu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Maybe someone could translate this unless it inane as the rest of this
post.
mike
James Douglas Del-Vecchio
ra...@andrew.cmu.edu (Rikiya Asano) writes:
>Mr. x,(I mean Andy V and shit)
>Obviously, you are White. And, stupid. Everyone knows that America is
>the crime, violence and murder capital of the world.
"Everyone" must be a little confused then, Riki. Mexico has us
beat, and they are not the only one.
>Now, I know that you are White! ...
>Fuc* you ...
>Here we go again. Another Whiteman projecting his personality on me again.
>>I have more respect for the
>> Klansman that says "nigger go home". At least he is forthright,
>> however misguided he may be.
>Look at this shit!! Oh! the klanman is "misguided" is he. Dude, if I
>ever see you I'm going to Fuck you up on sight. Well, maybe I wont have
>the time. But, you should be careful(especially in Harlem) well I finish
>this later......
You are no different than the k man.
Jim Del Vecchio
t...@gibdo.engr.washington.edu
>
> Obviously, you are White. And, stupid. Everyone knows that America
> is the crime, violence and murder capital of the world.
Obviously, you are Yellow. And, stupid. Maybe everyone without a
decent education knows what you claim they know, but Cairo, Egypt is
the murder capital of the world at 44 murders per 100,000 population
per year. Places like NYC and Washington DC are about 7 in a bad
year. Many undeveloped places of the world are much more dangerous
than the US. Facts, man! Be careful with your facts!
-- Tad Perry Internet: t...@gibdo.engr.washington.edu
CompuServe: 70402,3020
Dan Sorenson
> ra...@andrew.cmu.edu (Rikiya Asano) writes:
>[Rude responses deleted for space.]
>[Obscene answer deleted for good taste.]
>[Threat of felony assault deleted.]
>Doesn't leave much else...
On the contrary, David, I think there is something to be said for
Rikiya Asano. Had his mother properly attached her colostomy bag, he would
not be posting today.
jason 'Think!' steiner
>
> I don't think that you could afford a Carngie Mellon University
> education in Undergrad and Grad in CASH!!!
what the fuck does this have to do with anything?
> Obviously, you are White.
what the fuck does skin color matter?
> Everyone knows that America is the crime, violence and murder
> capital of the world.
what the fuck were you doing when your teachers explained "documentation"?
> Since, America's inception, You dick, violence ha played part in
> Americans history. From the Semi-genocide of the native American to
> Black African Slavery to the American Civil War to(need I go on you
> dickhead) I know some places in NYC that you would never walk out
> of. Come the Harlem with me Faggot(oh! sorry fallas)wimp.
what the fuck gives you the idea America has a monopoly on violence
and discrimination?
> Now, I know that you are White!
what the fuck would that have to do with the subject at hand?
> Fuc* you
observe: the most intelligent line in the whole article. except he
spells "Fuck" wrong.
> Here we go again. Another Whiteman projecting his personality on me
> again.
what the fuck is this concern with skin pigmentation?
> Look at this shit!! Oh! the klanman is "misguided" is he. Dude, if I
> ever see you I'm going to Fuck you up on sight. Well, maybe I wont
> have the time. But, you should be careful(especially in Harlem)
> well I finish this later......
what a fucking moron.
jason
--
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`
`,` "I'd explain it to you, but your head would blow up." - S. Wright `,`
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,` jste...@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu ,`,`,`
Michael Deering
>
>
>>Yeah, and the world was supposed to end a few weeks ago, according
>> the the idiot Sung Myung Moon. Get a life, pardon me please.
>
>
>Why must you drag him into this you dic*! Who died and left you God!
>Your a joke. I don't think that you could afford a Carngie Mellon
>University education
>in Undergrad and Grad in CASH!!! Personally, I don't want to get into a
>confront ation with you. But, since most of you prefer to call me
>racist, well here goes.
Well there goes another ASSano hole into my kill file. Susan, Russ, Sybok,
make room in the shitter
Mick
Rikiya Asano
I maybe "yellow". But, I proud. I even may be stooopid, but I'm a
man to admit it. I don't want to embarrass you my friend but Cairo is a
city. How can you compare a city with a country. If you would be alittle
less defensive maybe you would be able to read my statements correctly.
I did say America didn't I. Not L.A., Not D.C., Not Compton.,or New
York, Ect., ect.. I expected a little better from you Tad. Remember, the
slogan: I'm Black and I'm Proud. How about I'm Yellow and I'm also
proud! No, actually that was a song: Say it loud, "
I'm black and I'm proud!"
See you.
Rikiya Asano
> On the contrary, David, I think there is something to be said for
>Rikiya Asano. Had his mother properly attached her colostomy bag, he would
>not be posting today.
But she didn't and I am. so, what your excuse Dic*head!
Rikiya Asano
>what the fuck does this have to do with anything?
No wait. Your name sounds Jewish. You're luckly I caught that. I
was about to give you hell there bubby. Since my advisor is Jewish and
I like the Old Testment and the little nazi bastards in Germany are
starting that dumb shit again and Honica(now I know that this is not the
right spelling) is comming up- I'll give you a break. Have a nice
celebration! Well..... this one I can't let go by. Sorry.
>what the fuck were you doing when your teachers explained "documentation"?
Pick up a bloody newpaper, chap!
cheers (I did think that I could do that sh*t).
Rikiya Asano
bocchi ball. This old Italian dude taught me), writes:
>You are no different than the k man.
Bullshit! I never been to a lynchin' or a tar and feather festival. And,
look man don't call me fu*king Riki. I don't need your pet/nick names.
If I can say and/or write Jim Del Vecchio you can certainly type or make
an attempt to say RIKIYA. Now, your fu*king with me the wrong way.
Rikiya Asano
[Threat of felony assault deleted.]
>
Number one:Terroristic Threat is not a felony. What kind of America are you?
Number Two: I do believe that after my angry went away and I regain
conscieousness I recanted to this "Poor" gentleman. I think I said that
I don't
have to time to kick your &^%$#: ass or something to that effect.
I see that you effectively deleted all of the stuff about American
pride. Well, when I get a little time I'll talk about American Pride.
See you for now.
David Veal
ra...@andrew.cmu.edu (Rikiya Asano) writes:
>David Veal writes:
>
> [Threat of felony assault deleted.]
>>
>
> Number one:Terroristic Threat is not a felony.
Never said it was. (In most places its a misdemeanor.) I said
you threatened felony assault. (Felony sexual assault, actually.)
>What kind of America[n] are you?
One with a little sense of decorum. One who doesn't go around
threatening sexual assault on people they disagree with.
> Number Two: I do believe that after my angry went away and I regain
>conscieousness I recanted to this "Poor" gentleman. I think I said that
>I don't
>have to time to kick your &^%$#: ass or something to that effect.
Oh, you said that it would be *inconvenient* to commit felony
assault against him, so you wouldn't. Everything's all hunky-dorey
now, isn't it?
>I see that you effectively deleted all of the stuff about American
>pride.
I deleted the text peppered with obscene phrases, threats,
and general rudeness. You can spout them all you want. Don't expect
me to repeat them for you.
>Well, when I get a little time I'll talk about American Pride.
I quiver in anticipation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Veal Division of Continuing Education Information Services Group
University of Tennessee, Knoxville
PA14...@utkvm1.utk.edu
jason 'Think!' steiner
> Mr. Steiner writes,
>
> >what the fuck does this have to do with anything?
>
> No wait. Your name sounds Jewish. You're luckly I caught that. I
> was about to give you hell there bubby. Since my advisor is Jewish
> and I like the Old Testment and the little nazi bastards in Germany
> are starting that dumb shit again and Honica(now I know that this
> is not the right spelling) is comming up- I'll give you a break.
no, give me hell. this ought to be amusing. besides, i'm actually
95% of swiss/german heritage, so i've got a lot more in common with
those "nazi bastards" than i do the Jewish. i'm still amazed that
you believe that has any significance at all...
> >what the fuck were you doing when your teachers explained
> >"documentation"?
>
> Pick up a bloody newpaper, chap!
what does that prove? local news doesn't cover international crime
levels. on the other hand, i -can- pick up a copy of the Uniform
Crime report.
apparently, you can't.
wondering if this guy is for real,
t...@gibdo.engr.washington.edu
>Sure,
>
> I maybe "yellow". But, I proud. I even may be stooopid, but I'm a
>man to admit it. I don't want to embarrass you my friend but Cairo is a
>city. How can you compare a city with a country.
Then you called a country a "capital". A capital, my friend, is a
city. America isn't the capital of anything. Also, the figures I
cited were per capita figures and could easily be used to compare a
city, Cairo--the murder capital of the world, to the US. If we take
the US as a whole the murder rates per capita are much, much lower.
You've said many times you admit when you're wrong. But you can't, you
won't, you wouldn't dare admit that calling someone "white and stupid"
was anything but altruistic. Oh, mighty crusader! Mr. Fair and
Generous with the people of color! Bash Whitey to prove your
allegiance and BURN IN HELL WITH THE KKK, NAZI BRETHREN YOU SECRETLY
ADORE!!!
>If you would be alittle less defensive maybe you would be able to
>read my statements correctly. I did say America didn't I. Not L.A.,
>Not D.C., Not Compton.,or New York, Ect., ect.. I expected a little
>better from you Tad.
I copied your post almost word for word, replacing "White" with
"Yellow", and now you say you expected better of me. I'm not surprised.
You're basically saying that you expected better of yourself... but
didn't we all?
>Remember, the slogan: I'm Black and I'm Proud. How about I'm Yellow
>and I'm also proud! No, actually that was a song: Say it loud, " I'm
>black and I'm proud!"
You're just not used to hearing a white person say what they think in
a public arena. I'm not gonna blow hot air up your ass like a lot of
people do and say: "Rikiya, I'm sure you have valuable things to say.
If you just weren't so quick to use bad language and inflammatory
racist statements, I'm sure you could make a valuable contribution to
our discussion." BullSHIT! I don't think you have even one single
solitary valuable contribution to make, except showing how "stoopid" a
person can really get when they work hard 24 hours a day at it like
you do--an example of what not to do. A batsu. A matigai. A reigai. An
international symbol with a big red giant X through it.
-- Tad Perry Internet: t...@gibdo.engr.washington.edu
CompuServe: 70402,3020
NIFTY-Serve: GBG01266
Rikiya Asano
>
>I don't understand what you mean by openess of mind. In my dialect that
>means that you are willing to accept a wide range of ideas or to at least
>consider them. I don't see how that applies here.
I feel very comfortable talking with you! Yes, I do mean at least aware
of and perhaps accept a wide range of Ideas. Right! were really flying
now. Keep it coming. Well, the application is that the person will have
a wide range of expriences and therefore will not be limited in the
processes of there lives.
You know curiousity didn't really kill the cat. Naivete did! It
shouldn't have been walk on those electrical cables to try and see if
that was a bird or not.
>Knowing how to protect ourselfs has not made the US a terrordome. The
>problems we have had with violence have incresed even while skill
>with a gun, has decresed. Our violence problems are due to cultural
>problems that are far more complex than your simple minded and bigotted
>statements indicate.
But indirectly it does. What I mean is this. A lot of. Well, I should
start out on the phycholoigal side of the issue. Lets not fool
ourselves; a gun means power. One can say protection but you can run
away to be within protection. Ya' know what I mean? .. Just by showing a
person a gun is enough to scare the hell out of them. Don't fu*k with
me! How do you know about cultural problems. If your pro-gun that most
certainly you were pro-Bush. Do you live in a Ghetto?
f*ck no. Do you live within the inner city? Fu*k no. Did you collect
food stamps so that your family can eat because your black and (as much
as I hate to minic
this guy)as Ross Perot said, "When things get get bad who gonna suffer
the most you people". "I mean your people". Definately, fuck no. So,
your just a caucasian, Reganite, Bushhead, suburean individual talkin'
shit. I see that you are affliated with a lab, so I know to don't have
time to go out and let's say
march for the homeless. You know it winter right? How much did you give to the
homeless last year. A couple of dollars. Do you think that someone can
live off of that. And, why are you saying two-legged predators some many
times? Don't you
that a perdators are animals. Man is not a predator! Does these terms
make it easier for you to kill? Oh! don't worry it was a two-legged
predator! Is that what you'd say. Wake up and smell the
cohee(Coffee)motherfuc*er! Shaffer is that
Irish! I like the Irish! I'ma give you some advice: Take that gun and go to
the nearest river throw it in. And, tell your rifle bubbies to do the
same. Now, Withdrawal is a hard thing. It will be like you were on
drugs. Crack. At first,
you'll say, "Why did the hell I go and do that for!" And then after a
while you'll feel like you lost your "best friend". And this is when
depression, insecurity and paranoia(even though your paranoid as f*ck
now) wiil set in. But,
you'll find another friend; that's right! What you use to call a
two-legged predator. Think about it! I know the Irish their strong and
and they have a fighting spirit. Ah! I just though of as new phase. Ah!
this is great! Drum roll
please<<<<<<<<<<<<<<drum roll>>>>>>>>>>> "The Fighting Irish"! I
getting to be
quite mother*uckin genious!!! Think I'll go have a drink! The Irish can drink
too. The two do go together a lot of times. If you don't get rid of those guns
you gonna be drinkin' and a fightin' and a shootin' just like real dodge. I'ma
get the fu*k out of you way. Well, I have to go. And, about the "M"
word! Just practising American Freedom. Please, don't have offense! I
highly agree with your military statements. You know I saw a movie here.
Called "Full Metal Jacket" by Stanley 2001, anyway,( why he made this
movie is interesting to me)
but in this movie a certain general says to this soldier,"In every dink, gook
there's an American waiting to get out!" I apply this to you,(somewhat)
"In every repubican there a Democrat struggling to get out!" I like alot
of your statement.
Rikiya Asano
I know your culture. Since you are ready to accuse of being rastist again. Show
me up on the sceen where I said that a person was stoopid because they
were white. Would you please. Ya' know assume to much. And , this my
point, your not use to a Japanese calling you white. There is nothing
wrong with being White. Contrary, to your limited education, I have
many, many white friends. Both In America and Nippon. But, they are not
you all. What do you all expect out of Japanese? Tad, you should wait
up! If you could see my e-mail you wouldn't believe it. I have more
Japanese in Nippon on my e-mail then the whole s.c.j.
About eight to ten times more. And, as always, I'll be honest about 85%
of them agree full with what I say. Now, don't get my wrong I get some
tough critisms
especially, form Keio University.(CMU's "sister" school). My e-mail is 532.
Now, as I said before show me where I directly told ANYONE THAT THEY
WERE STOOPID BECAUSE OF THEIR COLOR. Now, put your heart where your
mouth is bit*h!
Show me! Anyone of you all can participate! Just because I say to a
white person
that he is stupid doesn't mean because of his color but his think or
attutude. Show me bitch! Ya'll can cry that Racism shit but you can't
prove it! That is
your personal problem. Do you actually think that I could continue to a school
to a school that is 75% White and be a racist again white publicly on a
international communication system. DON'T BE SSSSSSSTOOOOPIDDDD!!!!!!
Fuc* you, man! This has to be your education! So, I won't blame you personally.
But, Really think about it. If I were racists do you think that I would take
all this time writing to ya'll. No other Japanese from Nipppon takes
this much time with you all. Mr. Lambert said something a while back, "
Not to many Japanese (in Nippon) write to this program". I can see why
most of you all are
some of the most self-centered, egotistical, close-minded conservative(
I'll be kind this time) people(damn, that was hard) I see that most of
you only went to my country for only a short time. I've here for Six
years Tad.
Now, you claim to have some "close" minority friends. Where are they? I
just seen one Asian-American. Where's all these black people that you
claim to help.
I'm not doubting you but where the fuck are they? No, you get your rocks off
calling me racists. Just because I called a person who is white stupid.
Not, because he's white but because was stupid in that point in time.
Your an Asshole. I was right in the beginning. I don't want to be your
friend anymore.
I don't think that no Japanese(from Nippon) would want to be your close
true friend after they see what on the inside. You are very stupid for a
college
student. As usual higher mathematics and science in amost non-existant
in your intelligence, alot of you all critized my english and spelling
ability but I
could have also critized you all on your math abilities but I'm not that mean.
I'm the stooopid one, I took all this time to reason with you all when you're
a bunch of hopeless losers(and you all know who you are). You can't go
anywhere,
afraid of your own "America" citizens, very unfair to "other" Americans.
Just plain hopeless. And, if I were to ask do you care you would say No!
Show me Tad! Where I said a person was stupid because he was white!
Rikiya Asano
>no, give me hell. this ought to be amusing. besides, i'm actually
>95% of swiss/german heritage, so i've got a lot more in common with
>those "nazi bastards" than i do the Jewish. i'm still amazed that
>you believe that has any significance at all...
No, I'll still pass this time.
>> >what the fuck were you doing when your teachers explained
>> >"documentation"?
>>
>> Pick up a bloody newpaper, chap!
>
>what does that prove? local news doesn't cover international crime
>levels. on the other hand, i -can- pick up a copy of the Uniform
>Crime report.
Now, that's good thinking. There maybe some hope here!
>apparently, you can't.
Why not, I'm in America you Di*k?
Robert H Brueckner
/quoted material follows/
Number one:Terroristic Threat is not a felony. What kind of America are you?
Number Two: I do believe that after my angry went away and I regain
conscieousness I recanted to this "Poor" gentleman. I think I said that
I don't
have to time to kick your &^%$#: ass or something to that effect.
I see that you effectively deleted all of the stuff about American
pride. Well, when I get a little time I'll talk about American Pride.
See you for now.
/end quoted material/
Sazo otsukare desho^ ne.
RB
--
|"The truth is cruel, but it can be loved, and it makes free those who |
| have loved it." -- George Santayana // Opinions expressed here, when |
| clear and persuasive, are my own. --Rob Brueckner (r...@world.std.com) |
jason 'Think!' steiner
> Mr. Steiner writes:
>
> >> >what the fuck were you doing when your teachers explained
> >> >"documentation"?
> >>
> >> Pick up a bloody newpaper, chap!
> >
> >what does that prove? local news doesn't cover international crime
> >levels. on the other hand, i -can- pick up a copy of the Uniform
> >Crime report.
>
> Now, that's good thinking. There maybe some hope here!
>
> >apparently, you can't.
>
> Why not, I'm in America you Di*k?
*sigh* 'cause if you -could-, and did, you'd find out just how wrong
you are. but i suppose that's too simple... certainly not as much
fun as refusing to spell "dick" or "fuck" correctly.
actually, i think you're a lot more intelligent than you let on. so
tell me, are you getting into these flame wars on a bet? ("i'll bet you
$50 i can have 20% name recognition on the net in 2 months.") or are
you another bored computer lab TA who doesn't get enough kicks just
-reading- news? if so, your efforts are mildly amusing. don't you think
they could be put to better use getting a life?
jason
--
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`
`,` "...my fellow neuronaughts were all linked up, plugged in, speed- `,`
`,` crazed, and increasing the bandwith of love." - carl...@umn.mr.edu `,`
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,` jste...@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu ,`,`,`
Dan Sorenson
shorts produced the following:
>Danny boy Sorenson writes,
Medic! I've been smarmed!
Now breathe deeply and try not to let your knees spasm. There....
That's it. Just relax. Now then, you have shown the intellect commonly
associated with carrots and other roots. You have stated nothing other
than your skin color as justification for considering your remarks. You
have also claimed you were proud of your skin color, as if it made any
difference. You have also insinuated that you might "come after" some
who disagreed with your viewpoints. Yet you have failed to make a case
against the opinions you are so ready and willing to oppose.
Frankly, your extreme lack of ability to compose an argument, let
alone compose a substantial retort, is quite enough to make me wonder if
you can tie your shoelaces in a strong breeze. I make it a point of
personal pride to allow others the freedoms I so enjoy until they prove
they are incapable of handling this responsiblity. In light of this, I
would still be leery of allowing you access to anything sharper than a
Twinkie. In short, "Gene police! Out of the pool!"
If you wish to spar with me, take it to e-mail. I'm certain
the others here would rather not listen to the resulting words.
Henry E. Schaffer
> ... shit ... you dic*! ...
>Your a joke. I don't think that you could afford a Carngie Mellon
>University education
> ... you are White. And, stupid. ...
> ... You dick ... you dickhead ... Faggot ... Fuc* you ... shit!! ...
> ... I'm going to Fuck you up on sight. ...
So we have someone pretending to be a spoiled rich Japanese kid
who is so excited about being away from any oversight that he just
can't stop bragging and talking dirty.
It must be a joke, because not even a spoiled rich Japanese kid
who is excited about being away from any oversight could act in
such a consistently stereotyped way.
--henry schaffer
P.S. Follow-ups set to soc.culture.japan since that seems to be the
crowd that he really wants to impress.
Stefan
..
>march for the homeless. You know it winter right? How much did you give to the
>homeless last year. A couple of dollars. Do you think that someone can
>live off of that.
..and what have you done for the homeless?
Stefan
>ra...@andrew.cmu.edu (Rikiya Asano) writes:
>>Do you live in a Ghetto?
>>f*ck no. Do you live within the inner city? Fu*k no. Did you collect
>>food stamps so that your family can eat because your black and (as much
>>as I hate to minic
>>this guy)as Ross Perot said, "When things get get bad who gonna suffer
>>the most you people". "I mean your people". Definately, fuck no. So,
>>your just a caucasian, Reganite, Bushhead, suburean individual talkin'
>>shit.
>
>be white, support Bush and Reagan, live in suburbs, and have no moral
>position from which to argue.
> Quite a lot of assumptions.
these assumptions seem to be typical of a bigot.
Douglas J. Narby
What are the chances of this thread GETTING THE HELL OFF THIS
NEWSGROUP!!!????!!!!
--
sig? what .sig? Us academic types can't say anything in 4 lines!
Randy Sopicki
And you know the old saying about assumptions. This gents assumptions are
totally out in left field.
ProLine: rsopicki@pro-amber
Internet: rsop...@pro-amber.cts.com
UUCP: crash!pro-amber!rsopicki
Christopher Morton
How about that "Saturday Night Live" skit about the Stupid Rights Movement?
"Gee, Rikiya-kun, you're a little slow, aren't you?"
your line:
"And PROUD OF IT!"
>
> See you.
Not if I see you first.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
"Well whose opinions did you THINK these were...?"
------------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Morton
> >You are no different than the k man.
>
> Bullshit! I never been to a lynchin' or a tar and feather festival. And,
> look man don't call me fu*king Riki. I don't need your pet/nick names.
> If I can say and/or write Jim Del Vecchio you can certainly type or make
> an attempt to say RIKIYA. Now, your fu*king with me the wrong way.
Well, RiKKKi old man, with all of this "chink", and "jap", and "nigger" stuff
you're splattering all over the crt, what else COULD you be?
I know that the Klan is an all White organization (us "niggers" have special
insights into this) but I'm convinced that you're stupid enough to want to
join, and that they're stupid enough to take you.
Christopher Morton
> Mr. Steiner writes,
>
>
> >what the fuck does this have to do with anything?
>
>
> No wait. Your name sounds Jewish. You're luckly I caught that. I
Well, well, well. Along with being sorry little racist piece of shit, you're an
anti-semite too. Not much of a surprise though. But hey, no bastard like a
thorough going bastard, eh?
> I like the Old Testment and the little nazi bastards in Germany are
I've found many racist crackpots who did. What's your point?
> >what the fuck were you doing when your teachers explained "documentation"?
>
> Pick up a bloody newpaper, chap!
>
Really, you aren't a dog, even though you have the intelligence of one. There'sno need for him to swat you on the nose.
T. Archer
>>I don't understand what you mean by openess of mind. In my dialect that
>>means that you are willing to accept a wide range of ideas or to at least
>>consider them. I don't see how that applies here.
>
>I feel very comfortable talking with you! Yes, I do mean at least aware
>of and perhaps accept a wide range of Ideas. Right! were really flying
>now. Keep it coming. Well, the application is that the person will have
>a wide range of expriences and therefore will not be limited in the
>processes of there lives.
>You know curiousity didn't really kill the cat. Naivete did! It
>shouldn't have been walk on those electrical cables to try and see if
>that was a bird or not.
What are you talking about, and what does it have to do with talk.politics.
guns?
>
>>Knowing how to protect ourselfs has not made the US a terrordome. The
>>problems we have had with violence have incresed even while skill
>>with a gun, has decresed. Our violence problems are due to cultural
>>problems that are far more complex than your simple minded and bigotted
>>statements indicate.
>
>But indirectly it does. What I mean is this. A lot of. Well, I should
>start out on the phycholoigal side of the issue. Lets not fool
>ourselves; a gun means power.
True enough. So does a hammer, a baseball bat, or a nuclear reactor.
Relevance, please?
>One can say protection but you can run
>away to be within protection.
Not always. I have been cornered, and so have many other. Further, I am
not sure that I see the moral obligation to flee when threatened.
>Ya' know what I mean? .. Just by showing a
>person a gun is enough to scare the hell out of them.
Very rarely will the sight of a firearm frighten anyone who is familiar with
them and the psychology of their users.
>Don't fu*k with
>me! How do you know about cultural problems. If your pro-gun that most
>certainly you were pro-Bush.
No, I was not, nor were ANY of the other pro-gun people that I am familiar
with.
>Do you live in a Ghetto?
No. Relevance, please?
>f*ck no. Do you live within the inner city?
No. Relevance, please?
>Fu*k no. Did you collect
>food stamps
No, I work for a living.
>so that your family can eat because your black and (as much
>as I hate to minic
What does race have to do with it?
>this guy)as Ross Perot said, "When things get get bad who gonna suffer
>the most you people". "I mean your people". Definately, fuck no. So,
>your just a caucasian, Reganite, Bushhead, suburean individual talkin'
>shit.
First, I fail to see where you are getting your data, and second, I fail to
see how my race, location of dwelling, OR my political affiliation have to
do with your remarks, or how they are relevant to this newsgroup.
>I see that you are affliated with a lab, so I know to don't have
>time to go out and let's say
>march for the homeless. You know it winter right? How much did you give to the
>homeless last year.
Less than that. I was unemployed and more concerned with keeping my own
body fed and out of the cold. (Note that I refused to sink to food stamps
or welfare. I worked minimum wage jobs and paid my own way.)
>A couple of dollars. Do you think that someone can
>live off of that.
No. Relevance, please.
>And, why are you saying two-legged predators some many
>times? Don't you
>that a perdators are animals. Man is not a predator!
Man is a predator. Check the dentition. His teeth are for cutting meat, or
crushing plants. He can choose whether he prey upon other species, plants,
or other men. Socially speaking, some people prey on their own species.
>Does these terms
>make it easier for you to kill?
Not at all. Taking a human life is something no one does easily.
>Oh! don't worry it was a two-legged
>predator! Is that what you'd say. Wake up and smell the
>cohee(Coffee)motherfuc*er! Shaffer is that
>Irish! I like the Irish!
Relevance please?
>I'ma give you some advice: Take that gun and go to
>the nearest river throw it in. And, tell your rifle bubbies to do the
>same.
Why?
>Now, Withdrawal is a hard thing. It will be like you were on
>drugs. Crack. At first,
>you'll say, "Why did the hell I go and do that for!" And then after a
>while you'll feel like you lost your "best friend". And this is when
>depression, insecurity and paranoia(even though your paranoid as f*ck
>now) wiil set in.
When did cautious, and prepared for an emergency come to mean paraniod?
>too. The two do go together a lot of times. If you don't get rid of those
>guns you gonna be drinkin' and a fightin' and a shootin' just like real
>dodge. I'ma get the fu*k out of you way. Well, I have to go. And, about
>the "M" word! Just practising American Freedom. Please, don't have
>offense! I highly agree with your military statements. You know I saw a
>movie here. Called "Full Metal Jacket" by Stanley 2001, anyway,( why he
>made this movie is interesting to me) but in this movie a certain general
>says to this soldier,"In every dink, gook there's an American waiting to
>get out!" I apply this to you,(somewhat) "In every repubican there a
>Democrat struggling to get out!" I like alot of your statement.
I'm having a real problem following you. Please stay away from firearms
when drinking, though. That's a great way to hurt someone.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Vote Dempublican, it's easier than thinking.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
John Kapson
>
>I am really beginning to wonder whether this guy is for real...
No, he's not. I tried to post earlier warning this group that he is simply
a fictitious character who posts only to stir things up, much like our
Aussie mates MacDonald and Juliff. If we ignore him, maybe he'll go away.
+-----------------------+-------------------------------------------------+
| John Kapson | "Americans have a right and advantage of being |
| NRA ILA | armed -- unlike the citizens of other countries |
| jka...@nis.naitc.com | whose governments are afraid to trust the |
| | people with arms." - James Madison, |
| | The Federalist Papers No. 46 at 243-244. |
+-----------------------+-------------------------------------------------+
| PGP Public Key available via email |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Frederic Woodbridge
> Mr. x,(I mean Andy V and shit), writes:
>
>
> >Yeah, and the world was supposed to end a few weeks ago, according
> > the the idiot Sung Myung Moon. Get a life, pardon me please.
>
>
>>Why must you drag him into this you dic*!.......
Frederic: This kind of filth, we don't need on this conference-or whatever
Frederic: it is. Now, really!!
> Your a joke. I don't think that you could afford a Carngie Mellon
> University education
> in Undergrad and Grad in CASH!!! Personally, I don't want to get into a
> confront ation with you. But, since most of you prefer to call me
> racist, well here goes.
Frederic: 1st, its "You're a joke", 2nd, What has the ability to afford a
Frederic: Carnegie Mellon University education have to do with
Frederic: rec.politics.guns? Obviously a Carnegie Mellon University
Frederic: education doesn't confer upon its receipient, the ability to
Frederic: correctly spell, logical and sequential thinking and manners!
>
> >Terrordome? America? Are you KIDDING?? What America are you
> > talking about? I have spent most of my life living in NYC,
> > arguably the most dangerous city in America to live in, and while
> > there is far more violence here than I feel the ought to be, there
> > is not nearly as much as the media would have you believe. In all
> > my years of frequenting the worst neighborhoods in NY (South Bronx,
> > Harlem, Bushwick, lower east side, etc), I have been attacked only
> > once, and it was my own stupidity that precipitated the assault.
>
>
> Obviously, you are White. And, stupid. Everyone knows that America is
> the crime,
> violence and murder capital of the world. Since, America's inception, You dic
> violence ha played part in Americans history. From the Semi-genocide of
> the native American to Black African Slavery to the American Civil War
> to(need I go on you dickhead) I know some places in NYC that you would
> never walk out of. Come the Harlem with me Faggot(oh! sorry fallas)wimp.
>
Frederic: In what way does this convey to you the impression that He is
Frederic: white? If you slow down enough to think properly (Ref: Carnegie
Frederic: Mellon University Education!) you would, firstly, be able to see
Frederic: that you left out the 's' in "...violence ha played a part..."
Frederic: secondly, that once again, you have shown you utter silliness-you
Frederic: do know what that means, don't you, Mellon Man?-by hurling
Frederic: epithets around that are completely unjustified. Faggot wimp!?!
Frederic: I suppose you have had homosexual sex with your "opponent"-whom,
Frederic: at the beggining of your treatise (if one could deign to call this
Frederic: sham of a collection of unprecise grammer and data a treatise) you
Frederic: clearly said "...don't want a confrontation with..."?
>
> >Sheesh.
>
> Now, I know that you are White!
Frederic: Praise The Lord, Another Insightful Conclusion From The Ronin!
>
> >Well, I guess I'll have to forget my manners and call this one as I
> > see it: RACIST ASSHOLE! Oooo the poor naive little Japs and Chinks...
>
> Here we go again. Another Whiteman projecting his personality on me again.
Frederic: Pray, tell us unfortunate ones where your Imperial Stupidness
Frederic: obtained...."projecting"..one's..."personality"...on another?
Frederic: You are a real gem, aren't you?
>
>
> >I have more respect for the
> > Klansman that says "nigger go home". At least he is forthright,
> > however misguided he may be.
>
> Look at this shit!! Oh! the klanman is "misguided" is he. Dude, if I
> ever see you I'm going to Fuck you up on sight. Well, maybe I wont have
> the time. But, you should be careful(especially in Harlem) well I finish
> this later......
Frederic: I knew you were of a homosexual bent what with you wanting to
Frederic: "Fuck" a man on sight!! You have heard of, by the way, of what
Frederic: is known as an apostrophe? Or, for that matter, a needle and
Frederic: thread whose varied uses have included sewing one's mouth shut!?!
Frederic: Listen guys, let's try to keep t.p.g clean?? If you have an
Frederic: opinion, please try your utmost to convey it in the best possible
Frederic: Manner. We are adults, aren't we. Granted we are not all Mellon
Frederic: Men, that doesn't mean we can't behave in a manner befitting
Frederic: Noble Samurai? Hehehee.
Michael A. Shaffer
|> Mr. Shaffer writes:
|>
|> >
|> >I don't understand what you mean by openess of mind. In my dialect that
|> >means that you are willing to accept a wide range of ideas or to at least
|> >consider them. I don't see how that applies here.
|>
|> I feel very comfortable talking with you! Yes, I do mean at least aware
|> of and perhaps accept a wide range of Ideas. Right! were really flying
|> now. Keep it coming. Well, the application is that the person will have
|> a wide range of expriences and therefore will not be limited in the
|> processes of there lives.
|> You know curiousity didn't really kill the cat. Naivete did! It
|> shouldn't have been walk on those electrical cables to try and see if
|> that was a bird or not.
|>
|> >Knowing how to protect ourselfs has not made the US a terrordome. The
|> >problems we have had with violence have incresed even while skill
|> >with a gun, has decresed. Our violence problems are due to cultural
|> >problems that are far more complex than your simple minded and bigotted
|> >statements indicate.
|>
|> But indirectly it does. What I mean is this. A lot of. Well, I should
|> start out on the phycholoigal side of the issue. Lets not fool
|> ourselves; a gun means power. One can say protection but you can run
Well yes and no. It can be a great equalizer but it does not make one
invincible. Now sole access to guns (such as our government is trying
to achieve) can be great power but I don't think that is what you ment.
|> away to be within protection. Ya' know what I mean? .. Just by showing a
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think I know what you mean but it is not always possible. Some examples
1. You are cornered by multiple assailants.
2. You are handicapped.
3. The perp is faster than you are.
4. The government is the one that is after you.
5. You can't run without abandoning your family.
6. You can't outrun a bullet.
|> person a gun is enough to scare the hell out of them. Don't fu*k with
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Never count on this! You may well end up dead. Perps often will call
your bluff. If you draw you must be prepared to follow through.
|> me! How do you know about cultural problems. If your pro-gun that most
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I pay attention to what is going on around me and I pay attention
to history.
|> certainly you were pro-Bush. Do you live in a Ghetto?
Wrong. I was pro Marrou. I do not live in a ghetto but I to pass
through them on a regular basis.
|> f*ck no. Do you live within the inner city? Fu*k no. Did you collect
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I have.
|> food stamps so that your family can eat because your black and (as much
You are badly missinformed on the issue of food stamps. I worked in a
conveinience store when I was younger. Most people redeeming foodstamps
were honkies. They would buy a 3 cent candy several times a day so
that they could use the change to buy beer and cigs.
I am not sure where you are going with this line of questioning...???
|> as I hate to minic
|> this guy)as Ross Perot said, "When things get get bad who gonna suffer
|> the most you people". "I mean your people". Definately, fuck no. So,
When a nations economy goes for a ride in the sewer we all lose. What
is your point?
|> your just a caucasian, Reganite, Bushhead, suburean individual talkin'
Caucasion: Guilty so what?
Reganite: to a point I was not aware of any better choices at the time
Bushhead: Definitely not!
suburean: I presume you mean suburbanite. Not quite I am preparing to
flee to the rural areas. Can't stand Xerox houses and condos.
again how is this relevent?
|> shit. I see that you are affliated with a lab, so I know to don't have
|> time to go out and let's say
|> march for the homeless. You know it winter right? How much did you give to the
You want to know something? I am right now trying to raise funds to
go over to Russia to help distribute free food and shoes to needy
families there instead of taking a vacation. I also regularly help
others in need right where I live. Your stereotypes are failing you.
|> homeless last year. A couple of dollars. Do you think that someone can
In addition to taxes I have given about $5000 in the last three years.
How have you done? Being against government involvement in charity
is not the same as not being compasionate. I would say that the
welfare system has done more to relieve people of their responsibility
to be compassionate than anything else.
|> live off of that. And, why are you saying two-legged predators some many
|> times? Don't you
|> that a perdators are animals. Man is not a predator! Does these terms
A preditor is one who preys on others. We are most familiar with the
ones in the animal kingdom but I assure you that the criminal element
does prey on their victims.
|> make it easier for you to kill? Oh! don't worry it was a two-legged
For your information I have never killed anyone. I will defend myself
or anyone else who is being attacked whether by an animal or a human.
I do not need to play any games with words to justify it. Two legged
preditor is just an acurrate (though colorful) description of the
violent criminal.
Besides I thought you humanistic evolutionists considered man and animals
to be just different versions of the same thing. Don't tell me that
you don't fit the stereotype. Stereo types are infalible right?
|> predator! Is that what you'd say. Wake up and smell the
|> cohee(Coffee)motherfuc*er! Shaffer is that
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Was than necassary?
|> Irish! I like the Irish! I'ma give you some advice: Take that gun and go to
^^^^^
No German. Guess I must be one of those Nazi Biggots. Oh but my wife is
Irish (maiden name Daugherty) and she agrees with me. So is she OK
because she is Irish? Is it only the southern Irish that are OK or any
Irishman?
You really are hung up on nationalities alright.
|> the nearest river throw it in. And, tell your rifle bubbies to do the
The how could I go kill cute fuzzy animals?
|> same. Now, Withdrawal is a hard thing. It will be like you were on
|> drugs. Crack. At first,
|> you'll say, "Why did the hell I go and do that for!" And then after a
|> while you'll feel like you lost your "best friend". And this is when
|> depression, insecurity and paranoia(even though your paranoid as f*ck
|> now) wiil set in. But,
You do need to limit you exposure to T.V. That fruedian stuff has
been passe for a long time. I have lived without guns at various
times. I had worse withdrawl when I cut done on CocaCola. I currently
don't even have a handgun or an evil-baby-killing-assualt-rifle. I
will try to control the shakes long enough to type this message.
|> you'll find another friend; that's right! What you use to call a
|> two-legged predator. Think about it! I know the Irish their strong and
|> and they have a fighting spirit. Ah! I just though of as new phase. Ah!
Yep they won a Medal in olympic boxing this time around. Hmmm... Make you
wonder. Such a barbaric sport. But the Irish are OK...
|> this is great! Drum roll
|> please<<<<<<<<<<<<<<drum roll>>>>>>>>>>> "The Fighting Irish"! I
|> getting to be
|> quite mother*uckin genious!!! Think I'll go have a drink! The Irish can drink
Another stereotype donw the drain. Nan goes to sleep after one glass of
plum wine.
|> too. The two do go together a lot of times. If you don't get rid of those guns
|> you gonna be drinkin' and a fightin' and a shootin' just like real dodge. I'ma
Sorry I don't drink. It would very irresponsible to drink and carry.
|> get the fu*k out of you way. Well, I have to go. And, about the "M"
|> word! Just practising American Freedom. Please, don't have offense! I
|> highly agree with your military statements. You know I saw a movie here.
|> Called "Full Metal Jacket" by Stanley 2001, anyway,( why he made this
|> movie is interesting to me)
|> but in this movie a certain general says to this soldier,"In every dink, gook
|> there's an American waiting to get out!" I apply this to you,(somewhat)
|> "In every repubican there a Democrat struggling to get out!" I like alot
|> of your statement.
Sorry. I am an independant that leans more toward Libertarian than
anything else.
mike
C. D. Tavares
> Mr. x,(I mean Andy V and shit), writes:
> Your a joke. I don't think that you could afford a Carngie Mellon
> University education in Undergrad and Grad in CASH!!!
Ooh, I bet THAT shut him up.
On the other hand, he doesn't NEED the education as much as you do.
> But, since most of you prefer to call me
> racist, well here goes.
So far, you have told one person, "Obviously, you are White," and told
him he would "never walk out of Harlem." You have told another that in
looking back at his name, you have concluded he is Jewish, so you would
cut him some slack because you liked that. You have asked a third
whether he was Italian from his name. You have asked a fourth "What
kind of Blackman are you? One who would sell out his own people."
SOMEONE here is obviously obsessed with race and nationality, and it's
pretty clear who it is.
--
c...@rocket.sw.stratus.com --If you believe that I speak for my company,
OR c...@vos.stratus.com write today for my special Investors' Packet...
C. D. Tavares
> I know your culture. Since you are ready to accuse of being rastist again.
> Show me bitch! Ya'll can cry that Racism shit but you can't prove it!
> Shaffer is that Irish! I like the Irish!
*Sigh.*
Followups set.
Kirk Hays
|> David Veal writes:
|>
|> [Threat of felony assault deleted.]
|> >
|>
|> Number one:Terroristic Threat is not a felony. What kind of America are you?
Ah, but a student visa holder threatening US citizens is frowned
upon by the State Department.
I had a Christian Lebanese friend deported when I was in college.
His "crime?" Telling someone he was "going to kick their ass."
Sound familiar?
Remember that the FBI, at least, monitors the net, Rikiya-san. It'd
be a shame for that expensive CMU education to be interrupted by
your battleship mouth overloading your rowboat tush.
Good advice, gleaned from experience, given cheaply.
Followups to t.p.g.
--
Kirk Hays - NRA Life.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to
do nothing." -- Edmund Burke (1729-1797)
Mr. X
>
>Based on what you have said here I think it is safe to assume tha tyou never
>commit any kind of fax paux when you visit foreign countries. You know before
>you go whether the country is a one kiss or a two kiss country.
If it is likely that kissing a person once on the cheek, rather than
twice, is likely to get me into a dangerous situation, then you are
damned right I will do my best to learn about these things. This
kind of information is , generally speaking, not hard to come by.
Whether or not a person learns it is a matter of having a sufficiently
circumspect attitude about things like this. As far as this young man
is concerned, I feel he may not have been properly prepared by his
family and culture to deal with the potential hazzards of traveling to
a foreign land, *any* foreign land.
What if a person comes to America from a land where it is a customary
gesture to greet a person by running up to them whilst yelling loudly
and growling and baring your teeth? Do that in NYC and you are likely
to get hurt, if not killed, by a reasonably frightened citizen. The
onness is, therefore, on the visitor, to know that such behavior is not
acceptable in the foreign place. Yes, I know the example is contrived,
but this is essentially analogous to the accounts of Hattori's behavior
in that he engaged in unwise behavior that could be construed as
potentially life threatening to the native inhabitants. Fatally poor
judgement.
>You know that showing the soles of your
>shoes is an insult of severe ramifications.
In fact, I was going to use exactly this example in another post, but
chose otherwise. I know this and yet I have never been to Saudi
Arabia and environs. This is information of fairly major significance,
similar to not drinking alcohol or fucking their women. Before I
travel abroad, I do some basic research exactly so I am less likely
to get myself into any kind of trouble.
>You learn all of this BEFORE you go
>and are then able to assimilate all of it so that you never make a mistake
>while visiting that foreign land. Or have you ever visited a foreign country?
Learn, yes... assimilate... well one can only do their best. Also,
there is a BIG difference between making a grave error in behavior
around people who know who you are and what your business is vs.
complete strangers who do not know you from Adam. If I slip and
show the soles of my shoes to my host, who knows that I am a foreigner,
I am likely to be able to make my sincere and profuse apologies. If
I do likewise in a cafe (or whatever) to a complete stranger, who in
hellknows what amy happen. I may not be given the chance to explain,
therefore I must be ever so careful, and my behavior MUST become
conservative in the extreme since, in some respects, I am as a small
child, learning what is OK and what is not.
Likewise, there is often a BIG difference between mistakenly committing
an insulting act and a *threatening* act. Generally speaking, it has
been my experience that folks are at least willing to hear an apology
before passing any judgements. You may still get your head handed to
you, but poeple WILL listen beforehand. On the other hand, acts that
are perceived as possibly life threatening are acted upon INSTANTLY.
Hattori's acts, as I have read about them here, sound as if they could
reasonably be seen as threatening. I was no there, so I cannot say
for sure. If he did indeed act as foolishly as has been related in
this group, then I am by no means sure that Peirs (sp??) was not
fully justified in acting as he did.
>Have you ever lived in a foreign country? From your statements I would guess
>not.
I traveled nearly the entire European continent alone, beginning at
age 10. I lived there for months at a time as a child. My folks
put me on a plane in June, and I would return on my own in September.
Not bad for a 10 year old (: I did this for 4 years.
>What you suggest is wholely irrational on a practical level. Moveover, if
>it were possible to learn all of the things you suggest before coming here then
>there would be little need to come here.
I am not suggesting that one learn ALL there is to know. I suggest
that you learn the basics of the culture, particularly when it is one
that is substantially different from your own, and behave accordingly.
Finding out what things are likely get you into very hot water is not
in any way difficult. As I said before, go to Malaysia (??) with a
1/4 gram of coke or a joint, or some heroin for personal use and you
will be put to death, if caught, no questions asked. If I am unaware
of this, and am caught with a joint in my pocket, whose responsibility
is that? MINE. PERIOD. Sure, there probably are places where the
laws are capriciously designed and enforced with the idea of trapping
foreigners. There may be no way to know about all of them, I agree,
but the USA is not some bumfuck backwater republic largely unkown to
the worlds population. There is little excuse for being unaware of the
most fundamental aspects of American life if you intend on traveling to
the United States. The same can be said for basically any other nation
as well.
>But fear not. All of the student who come here after will have been thru SWAP
>school so as to know how to survive the likes of Peairs.
SWAP? No capisc...
-Andy V.
Mr. X
>Mr. x,(I mean Andy V and shit), writes:
>
>
>Your a joke. I don't think that you could afford a Carngie Mellon
>University education
>racist, well here goes.
Gee, I thought ALL of me was calling you a racist...
Anyone know what this cupcake is talking about?
>
>Obviously, you are White. And, stupid. Everyone knows that America is
>the crime,
>violence and murder capital of the world. Since, America's inception, You dick,
>violence ha played part in Americans history. From the Semi-genocide of
>the native American to Black African Slavery to the American Civil War
>to(need I go on you dickhead) I know some places in NYC that you would
>never walk out of. Come the Harlem with me Faggot(oh! sorry fallas)wimp.
>
>
>Now, I know that you are White!
>
>No. anwser!
You mean "no clue"
>
>Fuc* you
Sorry sweet pea, I don't know you well enough, and I doubt you're my
type, in any event.
>
>
>Look at this shit!! Oh! the klanman is "misguided" is he. Dude, if I
>ever see you I'm going to Fuck you up on sight.
Yawn. Try not so hard to bore me.
>Well, maybe I wont have the time.
You mean "the skill".
>But, you should be careful(especially in Harlem) well I finish
>this later......
I'd be a bit more careful with those threats. If I were ever to
actually take you seriously (which ain't likely), you could find
yourself eating those threats, and perhaps a few other things you
would probably find highly unpleasant. But if you ever feel the
overwhelming need to be so incalculably foolish as to even consider
trying to "Fuck [me] up on sight", you may find me at 13 Old Monmouth
Road, Freehold, NJ. I'll be happy to hear from you, but you'd best
bring your manners along.
-Andy V.
PS, do something about your awful grammar, will you please?
Mr. X
>
>Bullshit! I never been to a lynchin' or a tar and feather festival. And,
>look man don't call me fu*king Riki. I don't need your pet/nick names.
Oooo... riki boy's gettin riled... tee hee hee.
>If I can say and/or write Jim Del Vecchio you can certainly type or make
>an attempt to say RIKIYA. Now, your fu*king with me the wrong way.
Yo Jim, you fucking this little schmuck? I'm pretty sure your
tastes run a bit better than this. I'll assume he's lying, again.
-Andy V.
Francis J. Bruening
>Bullshit! I never been to a lynchin' or a tar and feather festival. And,
>look man don't call me fu*king Riki. I don't need your pet/nick names.
>an attempt to say RIKIYA. Now, your fu*king with me the wrong way.
2 questions:
1) Riki, (why does this remind me of a little mongoose?) what is the
right way?
2) Don't most people on the net think this is probably some feeble
attempt at Japan bashing? No one can be as "stoopid" as our favorite son
pretends to be. I imagine this is some undergrad who is probably sexually
frustrated, and is trying to get t.p.g. subscribers lathered up in a sweat
with his xeniphobic drivel. I'm hoping if we ignore him he'll get bored not
being the center of attention and go get some hand cream and relieve his
tension. Lonely people like Riki need attention, and negitive attention is
better than none at all...
Francis J. Bruening
fj...@juts.ccc.amdahl.com <> franc...@aol.com
<Insert witty .sig of choice>
jason 'Think!' steiner
died. that sucks.)
the question i wanted to ask is, are Japanese really that ignorant
about the dangers of someone wielding a firearm? i recently started
watching anime (japanese animation, usually more serious than the
typical US fare) and i don't see how -anyone- who watches that could
not know what guns do. the artists who did Appleseed, at least, knew
enough to draw Colt service automatics right down to the last screw
and the serial number on the side. with the amount of blood & general
mayhem depicted i'd expect Japanese to be as much or more aware of
violence as someone who grew up watching american TV. probably more so.
(nobody ever dies in GI JOE.)
jason
--
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`
`,` "Every great gift is a kind of curse." - Camille Paglia `,`
Christopher Morton
> start out on the phycholoigal side of the issue. Lets not fool
> ourselves; a gun means power. One can say protection but you can run
> away to be within protection. Ya' know what I mean? .. Just by showing a
> person a gun is enough to scare the hell out of them. Don't fu*k with
> me! How do you know about cultural problems. If your pro-gun that most
> certainly you were pro-Bush. Do you live in a Ghetto?
> f*ck no. Do you live within the inner city? Fu*k no. Did you collect
> food stamps so that your family can eat because your black and (as much
"Collect food stamps so that your family can eat because your(sic) black"?
"BECAUSE I'm Black"? You really ARE a disgusting, little, racist, piece of
walking afterbirth, AREN'T you? I'm Black. I DON'T collect foodstamps. I
guess that means you're a LIAR. But hey, MOST racists are liars.
If ANY Black person, or Jew, or anybody ELSE needed a reason to own a gun,
you've certainly provided one. It's crowds of nasty little pinheaded thugs
standing outside of refugee shelters in Germany throwing firebombs.
Sorry, things aren't going to be quite as easy as they were when your type
went after the Koreans and the Jews the FIRST time around.
Dan Sorenson
>I'm hoping if we ignore him he'll get bored not
>being the center of attention and go get some hand cream and relieve his
>tension. Lonely people like Riki need attention, and negitive attention is
>better than none at all...
I, for one, am quite willing to help him in this quest. Noting that
my challenge to take his flames on me to e-mail has so far been unanswered,
I am seriously considering breaking my die-hard rule and starting a killfile.
Any net-gurus happen to have a good line for the various newsreaders
that will remove this obnoxious punk, and *only* him, from my otherwise-good
dose of daily News? I'd hate to miss re-hashed subjects, but his username
only would be limiting enough.
And to think, even Susan MacDonald didn't make me consider this.
Bill Lambert
Asano-Kun has long been in my kill-file, but now the group is
peppered with many responses to his insane and thoughtless
rantings. To all those who wish to feed the animals:
what's the point?
Many people who post here have some concept of dialouge and
discussion as a means to become informed, or to share
mutual information or ideas. Responding to, or trying to
establish any meaningful dialogue with Mr. A has been
clearly and constantly been demonstrated to be pointless.
Please put the sucker out of his misery by letting him exist
in a void of apathy, and at best... this is all he deserves.
- Bill Lambert
Kirk Hays
|>
|> Sorry, things aren't going to be quite as easy as they were when your type
|> went after the Koreans and the Jews the FIRST time around.
And let us not forget the Japanese killing, torture, and enslavement
of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Chinese in the 20's,
30's, and 40's while we're playing "who's the racist".
Do you "like" the Chinese, Rikiya-san? Do they make good slaves?
Or is only the Real Whiteman(TM) guilty?
Kirk Hays
|> In article <ByyB2...@SSD.intel.com>, ha...@ssd.intel.com (Kirk Hays) writes:
|>
|> > And let us not forget the Japanese killing, torture, and enslavement
|> > of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Chinese in the 20's,
|> > 30's, and 40's while we're playing "who's the racist".
|>
|> with a bulldozer, threw them in, and buried them alive. I believe the
|> estimate I heard for the number killed was ~10 million.
The documented raping of the women before they killed them would, IMHO, count as
torture.
Rikiya-san seems mighty quiet on this issue. I guess racial purity wasn't quite
the shield he was anticipating.
Are you out there, Rikiya-san? Do you accept your guilt?
Smittie
>about the dangers of someone wielding a firearm? i recently started
>watching anime (japanese animation, usually more serious than the
>typical US fare) and i don't see how -anyone- who watches that could
>not know what guns do. the artists who did Appleseed, at least, knew
>enough to draw Colt service automatics right down to the last screw
>and the serial number on the side. with the amount of blood & general
>mayhem depicted i'd expect Japanese to be as much or more aware of
>violence as someone who grew up watching american TV. probably more so.
>(nobody ever dies in GI JOE.)
This assumes that Japanese draw some correlation between anime and reality.
Furthermore, this makes some assumptions about where that line is drawn. For
example, Wile E. Coyote routinely tried to drop things such as safes, very
large boulders, trucks, etc onto the Roadrunner's head. Said items usually end
up landing on Mr. Coyote. Yet not many people draw the conclusion that one can
survive being crushed under a safe.
The point being that while the may well be some correlation between reality and
anime, where the line is drawn is the important (and as yet undetermined)
aspect.
smittie
--
Tada mono de ha nai
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
GEnie, MCI, AOL:Smittie All of these accounts except MCI will die on or
smi...@beach.csulb.edu about Dec 31. UNIX will be forwarded for 2 weeks.
Dave Schabel
[[Regarding Everyone's favorite Rikii]
> 2) Don't most people on the net think this is probably some feeble
>attempt at Japan bashing? No one can be as "stoopid" as our favorite son
>pretends to be. I imagine this is some undergrad who is probably sexually
>frustrated, and is trying to get t.p.g. subscribers lathered up in a sweat
>with his xeniphobic drivel. I'm hoping if we ignore him he'll get bored not
>being the center of attention and go get some hand cream and relieve his
>tension. Lonely people like Riki need attention, and negitive attention is
>better than none at all...
>
Agreed. Besides, reading through arguments between David Veal, Andy V.,
et al and Riki is becoming about as interesting and as competitive
as watching the "dream team" take apart the competition in Olympic
basketball.
Dave Schabel
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Schabel | Opinions and comments contained herein are mine and |
sch...@calspan.com | do not necessarilly reflect those of Calspan Corp or |
| its customers. |
Rikiya Asano
"Collecting foodstamps" is an Example you mother-----ing
d---! Hey! G
What did you say about Koreans! You better Chill! Cuz! And, not be so
trigger happy! I never said that you or anyone personally collected
foodstamps. this am example. Plus! What wrong with collecting food
foodstamps! I used them before! I hasn't embassassed! The only things
that you can't buy is dog food and stuff like that. Chill cuz!
Mr. X
>In article <1992Dec8.1...@mtu.edu>, cesc...@mtu.edu (Charles Scripter) writes:
>
>Rikiya-san seems mighty quiet on this issue. I guess racial purity wasn't quite
>the shield he was anticipating.
>
>Are you out there, Rikiya-san? Do you accept your guilt?
I doubt it. Last I heard, he was out fucking his neighbors cat.
Poor cat.
-Andy V.
jason 'Think!' steiner
> >the question i wanted to ask is, are Japanese really that ignorant
> >about the dangers of someone wielding a firearm? i recently started
> >watching anime (japanese animation, usually more serious than the
> >typical US fare) and i don't see how -anyone- who watches that
> >could not know what guns do.
>
> reality. Furthermore, this makes some assumptions about where that
> line is drawn. For example, Wile E. Coyote routinely tried to drop
> things such as safes, very large boulders, trucks, etc onto the
> Roadrunner's head. Said items usually end up landing on Mr. Coyote.
> Yet not many people draw the conclusion that one can survive being
> crushed under a safe.
>
> The point being that while the may well be some correlation between
> reality and anime, where the line is drawn is the important (and as
> yet undetermined) aspect.
i don't know if it matters where you draw the line. in the Roadrunner's
case it looks like:
guns in cartoons guns in life
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
not dangerous dangerous
we in the US still conclude that guns are dangerous. anime is more
like:
guns in anime guns in life
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
dangerous dangerous
no matter where you draw the line you've got to conclude that guns
are dangerous. i DO agree that correlation is important. if they
don't even realize that "guns in life are dangerous" then the right
hand side of the scale doesn't even exist.
jason
--
`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,`,` jste...@anwsun.phya.utoledo.edu ,`,`,`
Michael Deering
To: vik...@iastate.edu, talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Is Riki a ruse?
Newsgroups: soc.culture.japan,talk.politics.guns
In-Reply-To: <viking.7...@vincent2.iastate.edu>
References: <cf8H4yC00...@andrew.cmu.edu> <eeR.02=i2d...@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com>
Organization: UCLA, Anderson Graduate School Of Management
Cc:
Bcc:
/Asano/ch:j
I did this some days ago, What a pleasure!
Mick
Rikiya Asano
>
>And let us not forget the Japanese killing, torture, and enslavement
>of hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Chinese in the 20's,
>30's, and 40's while we're playing "who's the racist".
And, let definately not forget the millons upon millions of black
African slaves
that White America Sold, Bought, Tortured, Breeded, killed,
worked-to-death, raped, molested and anything else you or I can think
of.
>Do you "like" the Chinese, Rikiya-san? Do they make good slaves?
Don't show everyone how stoooopid you really are! Where did this asshole
come from?
>Or is only the Real Whiteman(TM) guilty?
Now you have yourself to be a fool? Of course not! The "Real WhiteMan"
set the standard! When you ask me this question you should thimk about
you own race.
Soredewa. Baka!
Larry Desoto
>Mr. Morton,
What? A Mellon man who can pay *cash* for his undergraduate education
using food stamps. This may well constitute fraud in the federal food
stamp program. Why does it not surprise me that you weren't embarrassed?
--
Larry
Bill Lambert
(Mr. X) writes:
=> ..................... There is little excuse for being unaware of the
=> most fundamental aspects of American life if you intend on traveling to
=> the United States. The same can be said for basically any other nation
=> as well.
Sorry... but I can't agree that a most fundemental aspect of American
life is risk of being shot for knocking on the door of a private
residence. Nor can we expect foreign vistors to know our culture
anywhere near as well as we do.
How about we be aware that they may be foreign visitors that are not
savvy to the high probability of being shot for looking at the wrong
person cross-eyed? The burden is on us to accomodate visitors to our
country as best we can with out killing them. It seems reasonable,
doesn't it?
- Bill Lambert
Smittie
>are dangerous. i DO agree that correlation is important. if they
>don't even realize that "guns in life are dangerous" then the right
>hand side of the scale doesn't even exist.
"Guns are dangerous" is, I believe, well understood in Japan. What doesn't
exist is guns in everyday life. Hence, it is completely true that in Japan if
the person is not a representative of the military or the police then it is
highly unlikely that the thing in his/her hand is a gun.
Nishimura
>Rikiya Asano <ra...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
[stuff deleted]
>>foodstamps. this am example. Plus! What wrong with collecting food
>>foodstamps! I used them before! I hasn't embassassed! The only things
>>that you can't buy is dog food and stuff like that. Chill cuz!
>
>What? A Mellon man who can pay *cash* for his undergraduate education
>using food stamps. This may well constitute fraud in the federal food
>stamp program. Why does it not surprise me that you weren't embarrassed?
>
>--
>Larry
RA might be talking about coupons, NOT about food stamps.
Tetsuya Nishimura
Mr. X
>
>"Guns are dangerous" is, I believe, well understood in Japan. What doesn't
>exist is guns in everyday life. Hence, it is completely true that in Japan if
>the person is not a representative of the military or the police then it is
>highly unlikely that the thing in his/her hand is a gun.
Then what would it be, an Italian sausage? Either you recognize the
device, or you do not. If it looks like a gun, one should assume that
it is a gun until you are satisfied to the contrary. Guns are
potentially dangerous, and anyone with any sense in their head does
not play it cavalier with anything that may be dangerous, I don't care
*where* it is you come from.
-Andy V.