The Dreamworld IS Real. PAY ATTENTION to your Dreams.

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Morpheus

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Aug 25, 2004, 8:26:31 PM8/25/04
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The Dreamworld IS The Kingdom Of Heaven!

The Dreamworld IS Real.

PAY ATTENTION to your Dreams.

gil...@hotmail.com

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Aug 26, 2004, 12:04:12 PM8/26/04
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morph...@freemail.ru (Morpheus) wrote in message news:<b3f98fc5.0408...@posting.google.com>...

> The Dreamworld IS The Kingdom Of Heaven!
>
> The Dreamworld IS Real.
>
> PAY ATTENTION to your Dreams.

The Kingdom Of Heaven is real, but we live in a dreamworld. We dream,
we wonder and we guess what heaven would be like.

Gilbert Gerber

David V.

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Aug 27, 2004, 1:04:13 AM8/27/04
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GIL...@HOTMAIL.COM wrote:
> morph...@freemail.ru (Morpheus) wrote

>>The Dreamworld IS The Kingdom Of Heaven!
>>
>>The Dreamworld IS Real.
>>
>>PAY ATTENTION to your Dreams.
>
> The Kingdom Of Heaven is real...

Sorry, it's not. Just because you dream something doesn't
make it real. What's your problem with reality?

--
David V.

UDP for WebTV

Joey

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Aug 27, 2004, 1:09:13 AM8/27/04
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morph...@freemail.ru (Morpheus) wrote in message news:<b3f98fc5.0408...@posting.google.com>...
> The Dreamworld IS The Kingdom Of Heaven!
>
> The Dreamworld IS Real.
>
> PAY ATTENTION to your Dreams.

In the Universe all things are made of either matter or energy. Our
thoughts and our ideas exist therefore they can be catagorized as one
or the other. Since they are not tangible, they must be energy. And by
the laws that govern the physical world, if they are energy they
cannot be destroyed they can only be transformed into another form of
energy. So the collection of all of the thoughts and energies that we
give off in a lifetime still exist after the body ceases to. And when
you dream, you are existing in your dreams as a concious energy
disconnected from your unconscious body. I believe this is our
reminder of what waits for us. A concious life disconnected from the
nervous system which causes us pain. An existence unemcumbered by
gravity with the full benifits of being totally energy and the ability
to travel at light speed for eternity.

David V.

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Aug 27, 2004, 1:18:01 AM8/27/04
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Joey wrote:
> morph...@freemail.ru (Morpheus) wrote

>
>> The Dreamworld IS The Kingdom Of Heaven!
>>
>> The Dreamworld IS Real.
>>
>> PAY ATTENTION to your Dreams.
>
> In the Universe all things are made of either matter or
> energy. Our thoughts and our ideas exist therefore they
> can be catagorized as one or the other. Since they are
> not tangible, they must be energy....

No.

Joey

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Aug 27, 2004, 2:01:16 AM8/27/04
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morph...@freemail.ru (Morpheus) wrote in message news:<b3f98fc5.0408...@posting.google.com>...
> The Dreamworld IS The Kingdom Of Heaven!
>
> The Dreamworld IS Real.
>
> PAY ATTENTION to your Dreams.

In the Universe all things are made of either matter or energy. Our


thoughts and our ideas exist therefore they can be catagorized as one

gil...@hotmail.com

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Aug 27, 2004, 8:02:02 AM8/27/04
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"David V." <sp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Hb-dnXHKf4Z...@sti.net>...

My problem with reality is:

There is so much knowledge we don&#8217;t have; we don&#8217;t have
all the answers.
We understand reality almost like Plato said. We see the reflections
on the wall, but people don&#8217;t see the light and the objects.
Life is only for a short time. (Temporary)

It all sounds a bit hazy, almost like a dream.

Gilbert Gerber

David V.

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Aug 27, 2004, 11:21:15 AM8/27/04
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Joey wrote:
>
> In the Universe all things are made of either matter or energy.

And when you die the "energy" that helps create your
thoughts is no longer being produced. You're dead. The only
thing left is your physical body for the living to dispose of.

David V.

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Aug 27, 2004, 11:25:22 AM8/27/04
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GIL...@HOTMAIL.COM wrote:
> "David V." <sp...@hotmail.com> wrote

>
>> GIL...@HOTMAIL.COM wrote:
>>
>>> morph...@freemail.ru (Morpheus) wrote
>>>
>>>> The Dreamworld IS The Kingdom Of Heaven!
>>>>
>>>> The Dreamworld IS Real.
>>>>
>>>> PAY ATTENTION to your Dreams.
>>>
>>> The Kingdom Of Heaven is real...
>>
>> Sorry, it's not. Just because you dream something
>> doesn't make it real. What's your problem with reality?
>>
>
> My problem with reality is:
>
> There is so much knowledge we don't have; we don't have
> all the answers.

Why do we need to have all the answers? Since we don't have
some is it alright to just make up something to put in the
place of those answers? Knowing, or not knowing, the answers
does not make gods or dreams real, it has no effect on reality.

> We understand reality almost like Plato said. We see the

> reflections on the wall, but people don't see the light


> and the objects. Life is only for a short time.
> (Temporary)

We've grown past Plato. Because life is for a short time
doesn't make dreams a reality or change reality in any way.

> It all sounds a bit hazy, almost like a dream.

Again, that doesn't mean that dreams are reality.

Joey

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Aug 28, 2004, 2:41:59 AM8/28/04
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> And when you die the "energy" that helps create your
> thoughts is no longer being produced. You're dead. The only
> thing left is your physical body for the living to dispose of.

Energy cannot be destroyed it can only be transformed into another
form of energy. Energy is not "produced" it is transformed from other
forms of energy.

David V.

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Aug 28, 2004, 11:58:15 AM8/28/04
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Joey wrote:
>> And when you die the "energy" that helps create your
>> thoughts is no longer being produced. You're dead. The
>> only thing left is your physical body for the living to
>> dispose of.
>
> Energy cannot be destroyed....

So? That doesn't mean your thoughts live on forever.

Jack

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Aug 28, 2004, 12:40:50 PM8/28/04
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res0...@verizon.net (Joey) wrote in message news:<9e6e1236.04082...@posting.google.com>...

Unfortunately, the energy created by the chemical reactions within
your body are converted to heat energy and widely distributed. Not
unlike a battery running down.

ralph

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Aug 28, 2004, 12:59:03 PM8/28/04
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In message <9e6e1236.04082...@posting.google.com>, Joey
<res0...@verizon.net> writes

Joey, your thesis is elegiac, but mistaken. It is true that the sum
total of matter and energy in the universe is constant, and there is
seldom change from one to the other.

However, it is not a straight matter/energy dichotomy. A stone is
matter, but when it is at the top of a slope it has potential energy,
and when it rolls down the slope this is converted into kinetic energy.

Music is energy, the kinetic energy of atmospheric particles. When if
falls on the ear, it is transformed into electrical energy which passes
along nerves until it reaches the brain, where it excites neurones to
produce the thought patterns we hear as music.

When we die all this activity ceases. The atoms in our body go into
other forms of matter, and the energy which was in our body changes into
other forms of energy. Our thoughts do not survive, since their location
(our brain) no longer exists.

Unless, of course, we have recorded them in some way; on paper, disk, or
in other people's brains.

Sorry!

--
ralph

D

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Aug 29, 2004, 5:21:42 PM8/29/04
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ralph <ra...@eddlewood.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<kKVI4XCXnLMBFwK$@eddlewood.demon.co.uk>...

Well, I am sorry, but I disagree. Let me first introduce myself...I am
D.
I do not believe all thought and activity ceases upon death of the
body. We are much more than just a physical being, in fact I believe
our physical body has very little to do with who and what we really
are. Yes, all physical activity, as we know it now, ceases upon death,
but activity we have yet to know, continues. The physical body can be
likened to a car. We get in our car, maintain it, add fuel and drive
it, till one day it just wears out and ceases to go anymore. We then
step out and continue on our way. The body is the same. We get in it
at birth, maintain it, fuel it and drive it till it wears out. Then we
step out and continue on. The human body is ours to use, so we may
see, hear and feel the things of this world, this plane. Once it
ceases to exist, we continue on a different plane. We are much more
then flesh and bone. A physical body does not provide personality.
That comes from elsewhere, within and continues on...as does thought,
but only on another level. D.

Joey

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Aug 29, 2004, 9:55:32 PM8/29/04
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> other forms of energy. Our thoughts do not survive, since their location
> (our brain) no longer exists.

However this does not explain the presence of apparitions or ghosts.
I'd like to hear some feedback from people who haved lived in
Gettysburg Pa. or who are from Lillydale New York. Your explaination
is very level headed but it is like saying the earth is flat because
eveything Is flat as far as the eye can see.

Marvin Edwards

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Aug 29, 2004, 10:58:12 PM8/29/04
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"Joey" <res0...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:9e6e1236.04082...@posting.google.com...

> However this does not explain the presence of apparitions or ghosts. <

Imagination explains the "appearance" of ghosts. In the same way that you
can see shapes in clouds, you can imagine you've seen a ghost from the
corner of your eye, when it is something else, something quite
unsupernatural. If there are ghosts, and they can appear, then why don't we
see them all the time? We know that there are many fruadulent "ghosts" which
have been exposed. Houdini spent a lot of time and money seeking a true
medium, who could really speak with the dead, but came up empty. The desire
to see someone who we've recently lost is strong, and very human. People
talk to graves, imagining that their loved ones are listening. But it is
more likely that ghost stories are just that, stories.


David V.

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Aug 30, 2004, 1:48:36 AM8/30/04
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D wrote:
> ralph <ra...@eddlewood.demon.co.uk> wrote
> activity ceases upon death of the body....

Then all you need to do is prove it. So far the proof
doesn't back up your beliefs.

David V.

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Aug 30, 2004, 1:49:30 AM8/30/04
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Joey wrote:
>> other forms of energy. Our thoughts do not survive,
>> since their location (our brain) no longer exists.
>
> However this does not explain the presence of apparitions
> or ghosts.

What presence?

Joey

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Aug 30, 2004, 3:55:27 AM8/30/04
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You apparently have never seen a true apparition. I knew of a family
who lived in Gettysburg that had a spirit living in thier house, who
appeared so often to the entire family that it was just like another
member of the family. She said that sightings by the inhabitants in
thier town was commonplace. The town of Lilydale does not accept
people to live in thier town unless they are thouroughly tested to be
psychic. One of them had accurately forecasted my friends future and
the death of her father 3 months later and she had never seen this
girl before, and there was no previous brain probing questions to try
to figure out what was going on in her life it was done cold. I had a
stranger from this town describe my dead grandmother to me who had
been dead since 1963. I had a friend who was staying at a friends
house and sleeping on his porch when he saw the friends dead wife in
the yard watering the flowers. He didn't believe him until some of the
neighbor kids told him that they had seen her too and then proceeded
to pick her out of a photo album. There are some things that logic
can't explain and apparently you haven't seen them but there are
others who have.

Joey

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Aug 30, 2004, 4:50:50 AM8/30/04
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"David V." <sp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<npudnfi1jt8...@sti.net>...

But it also doesn't mean that they can't.

Joey

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Aug 30, 2004, 5:17:12 AM8/30/04
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>
> Unfortunately, the energy created by the chemical reactions within
> your body are converted to heat energy and widely distributed. Not
> unlike a battery running down.

And where is this heat energy widely distrubuted to? Its certainly not
distroyed. Does it align itself with other simular energy forces to
create a larger more powerful energy? If it is like a battery, does it
have the option to align itself in parallel and thus through mass
aquire a greater potential? Or align itself in series and have the
full sum of all of the energies flowing though it therefore having
less mass and greater force. Maybe all of our thoughts and all of the
energy used to create these thoughts amassed from a portion of all of
the energy our bodies create through a lifetime of burning
hyrocarbons, are linked together in series and parallel grids that we
can navigate and draw from at will. Maybe this grid exists in the same
time and space as us but is unrecognizable by the 5 human senses and
unreadable by any known device.

Marvin Edwards

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Aug 30, 2004, 7:17:53 AM8/30/04
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"Joey" <res0...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:9e6e1236.04083...@posting.google.com...

> And where is this heat energy widely distrubuted to? Its certainly not
distroyed. Does it align itself with other simular energy forces to create a
larger more powerful energy? If it is like a battery, does it have the
option to align itself in parallel and thus through mass aquire a greater
potential? Or align itself in series and have the full sum of all of the
energies flowing though it therefore having less mass and greater force.
Maybe all of our thoughts and all of the energy used to create these
thoughts amassed from a portion of all of the energy our bodies create
through a lifetime of burning hyrocarbons, are linked together in series and
parallel grids that we can navigate and draw from at will. Maybe this grid
exists in the same time and space as us but is unrecognizable by the 5 human
senses and unreadable by any known device. <

Well heat is molecules moving more quickly. The state of water, going from
ice to liquid to steam is caused by applying heat to speed up the water
molecules. Evaporation disperses the molecules so that they no longer bump
each other around, removing the fastest movers, and reducing the temperature
of those remaining.

The closest thing to a storage battery for human energy might be DNA. It
acts as a program for creating life, and that life acts upon the physical
world in many ways, like turning on the stove to boil water.


Marvin Edwards

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Aug 30, 2004, 7:34:35 AM8/30/04
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"Joey" <res0...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:9e6e1236.04082...@posting.google.com...

> You apparently have never seen a true apparition. I knew of a family who

Science seeks the simplest explanation. There are simpler explanation than
the presumption that ghosts exist. For example, we know that crop circles
have been created by pranksters because those that did it have explained how
it was done. We cannot say for certain that "every" crop circle was created
by pranksters, but we know that this is more likely than that any crop
circles were created by alien flying saucers. A family that wishes people to
believe in ghosts could very easily convince people who are anxious to
believe in ghosts that there is one living in their house. As to psychics,
probably most are fake. But it may also be possible to pick up information
subliminally, through cues given unconciously by the person, possibly by
subvocalization. But you might want to pick up a subscription to Skeptical
Inquirer or get one of Randii's books for better information.


David V.

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Aug 30, 2004, 2:10:46 PM8/30/04
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Joey wrote:
> You apparently have never seen a true apparition.

That's because they don't exist in reality, only in peoples
imaginations. The sooner you realize that, the better off
you'll be.

David V.

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Aug 30, 2004, 2:11:51 PM8/30/04
to
Joey wrote:
> "David V." <sp...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
>> Joey wrote:
>>
>>>> And when you die the "energy" that helps create
>>>> your thoughts is no longer being produced. You're
>>>> dead. The only thing left is your physical body for
>>>> the living to dispose of.
>>>
>>> Energy cannot be destroyed....
>>
>> So? That doesn't mean your thoughts live on forever.
>
> But it also doesn't mean that they can't.

It does mean they can't. You can believe whatever you want.
Just don't lie to me and expect me to believe you.

Joey

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Aug 30, 2004, 2:39:14 PM8/30/04
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But you might want to pick up a subscription to Skeptical
> Inquirer or get one of Randii's books for better information.

I have seen such an article, one by a man who intentionally picked a
stuation that could be easily disproved. It was a couple who had
hearing and vision problems among other health problems. Seeing what
you want to see and believing what you want to believe goes both ways.

David V.

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Aug 30, 2004, 3:18:13 PM8/30/04
to
Joey wrote:
> But you might want to pick up a subscription to Skeptical
>
>> Inquirer or get one of Randi's books for better

>> information.
>
> I have seen such an article, one by a man who
> intentionally picked a stuation that could be easily
> disproved....

Send him any situation you want. Hey, if you proved such
apparitions exist he'll give you over a million dollars.
Then you could give that money to charity or psychic
research. It would make you a hero.

Marvin Edwards

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Aug 30, 2004, 5:23:07 PM8/30/04
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"Joey" <res0...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:9e6e1236.04083...@posting.google.com...
>... Seeing what you want to see and believing what you want to believe goes
both ways. <

Indeed.


zen_turnip

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Aug 31, 2004, 3:10:21 AM8/31/04
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"David V." <sp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<J5qdnTHo-7J...@sti.net>...

> Joey wrote:
> >> other forms of energy. Our thoughts do not survive,
> >> since their location (our brain) no longer exists.
> >
> > However this does not explain the presence of apparitions
> > or ghosts.
>
> What presence
Our thoughts do survive, consider Bridey Murphy,we have recolections
of previous lives , in our dreams and in our waking hours

Joey

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Aug 31, 2004, 12:59:45 PM8/31/04
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"David V." <sp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<hZWdnbpIepA...@sti.net>...

> Joey wrote:
> > You apparently have never seen a true apparition.
>
> That's because they don't exist in reality, only in peoples
> imaginations. The sooner you realize that, the better off
> you'll be.

There's a huge universe out there with endless knowledge that not even
you know. Too bad your feet are planted so firmly on the ground that
you can't see any of it. Rise above your ego and try to see someone
elses point of view for a change.

David V.

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Aug 31, 2004, 1:15:47 PM8/31/04
to
zen_turnip wrote:
> "David V." <sp...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
>> Joey wrote:
>>
>>>> other forms of energy. Our thoughts do not survive,
>>>> since their location (our brain) no longer exists.
>>>
>>> However this does not explain the presence of
>>> apparitions or ghosts.
>>
>> What presence
>
> Our thoughts do survive

Only if written down.

> consider Bridey Murphy,we have recolections of previous
> lives , in our dreams and in our waking hours

Why should I consider such ignorance?

David V.

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Aug 31, 2004, 1:17:06 PM8/31/04
to
Joey wrote:
> "David V." <sp...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
>> Joey wrote:
>>
>>> You apparently have never seen a true apparition.
>>
>> That's because they don't exist in reality, only in
>> peoples imaginations. The sooner you realize that, the
>> better off you'll be.
>
> There's a huge universe out there with endless knowledge
> that not even you know.

When you know what we don't know, and it includes ghosts,
then get back to me. Until then you're just yammering on
about conjecture based on fantasy.

ralph

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Aug 31, 2004, 2:33:26 PM8/31/04
to
In message <9e6e1236.04083...@posting.google.com>, Joey
<res0...@verizon.net> writes

I'm afraid it's definition time

"Your thoughts" might live for ever, if they were sufficiently profound,
and popular. For example, Pythagoras's thoughts about the sum of the
squares on the two adjacent sides equalling that on the hypotenuse of a
right triangle will probably be around as long as there are geometers.

But the sense in which you use the words is different, and it sounds as
though you believe that thoughts are little packets of energy flying
around like electromagnetic radiation which can be detected by a TV set,
or something similar. And that is simply not the case.

Your subsequent postings suggest that you may be unaware of the ability
of the brain to mislead the intellect, in the sense that there are many
classical examples of diagrams which can be interpreted in three
different ways, and changed from one to another at will by some people.

More importantly the ability to hallucinate does not depend solely on
drugs; respiratory conditions, fasting and other factors can produce
them by chance or at will. It is also true that some people will be
induced to see an apparition simply because they are in the presence of
someone who believes they have: psychologists tend to label it as "mass
hysteria", but that's a loaded description.

It has been pointed out to you that the sighting of an apparition which
was scientifically verified would be very valuable. The fact that none
has yet been found does not prove that one may not exist, of course, but
does make it very unlikely.

--
ralph

Joey

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Sep 1, 2004, 2:25:34 AM9/1/04
to
The fact that none
> has yet been found does not prove that one may not exist, of course, but
> does make it very unlikely.

Since spiritualism and science contradict, science does not want an
explaination for ghosts anymore than medical science acknowledges the
healing properties of herbs and holistic medicine. You won't find a
scientist trying to prove thier existance, only trying to prove thier
nonexistance. Thier has been plenty of work done out there by people
who have photographed spectors and detected them on specially made
electronic devices, however this is not considered to be science any
more than the medical world considers a chiropractor to be a doctor.

ian

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Sep 1, 2004, 5:07:58 AM9/1/04
to

During consciousness thoughts can be produced at free will which is
equivalent to dreams, thus is energy produced? If so why can't my
thought energy move an object?
During unconciousness my dreams are produced not by free will but by
my unconcious mind. These dreams cannot be fully controlled by my
unconcious mind. When I am dead my mind is dead, thus no more dreams.
We are not living in the "matrix"

David V.

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Sep 1, 2004, 11:26:10 AM9/1/04
to
Joey wrote:
>> The fact that none has yet been found does not prove
>> that one may not exist, of course, but does make it
>> very unlikely.
>
> Since spiritualism and science contradict, science does
> not want an explaination[sic] for ghosts...

There is a perfectly good, and empirically arrived at,
explanation for ghosts; the human imagination.

David V.

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Sep 1, 2004, 11:32:58 AM9/1/04
to
ian wrote:
> res0...@verizon.net (Joey) wrote

>
>>> And when you die the "energy" that helps create your
>>> thoughts is no longer being produced. You're dead.
>>> The only thing left is your physical body for the
>>> living to dispose of.
>>
>> Energy cannot be destroyed it can only be transformed
>> into another form of energy. Energy is not "produced"
>> it is transformed from other forms of energy.
>
> During consciousness thoughts can be produced at free
> will which is equivalent to dreams, thus is energy
> produced? If so why can't my thought energy move an
> object?

You don't produce enough of that kind of energy yet some
believe in telekinesis and are fooled by the spoon bending
acts of magicians.

> During unconsciousness my dreams are produced not by free
> will but by my unconscious mind. These dreams cannot be
> fully controlled by my unconscious mind.

Learn about lucid dreaming. You can control your dreams. It
takes practice but it can be done.

> When I am dead my mind is dead, thus no more dreams. We
> are not living in the "matrix"

Some people actually believe there is a "matrix". If you can
make it up, there's someone that will believe it.
Scientology is a good example of that.

Joey

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Sep 1, 2004, 12:33:39 PM9/1/04
to
jan_v...@yahoo.com (ian) wrote in message
>
> During consciousness thoughts can be produced at free will which is
> equivalent to dreams, thus is energy produced? If so why can't my
> thought energy move an object?

http://www.mysteriouspeople.com/Nina_Kulagina.htm

Joey

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Sep 1, 2004, 12:34:06 PM9/1/04
to
jan_v...@yahoo.com (ian) wrote in message
>
> During consciousness thoughts can be produced at free will which is
> equivalent to dreams, thus is energy produced? If so why can't my
> thought energy move an object?

http://www.mysteriouspeople.com/Nina_Kulagina.htm

David V.

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Sep 1, 2004, 1:13:20 PM9/1/04
to
Joey wrote:
> jan_v...@yahoo.com (ian) wrote in message
>
>> During consciousness thoughts can be produced at free
>> will which is equivalent to dreams, thus is energy
>> produced? If so why can't my thought energy move an
>> object?
>
> Nina_Kulagina

A proven fraud.

Marvin Edwards

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Sep 1, 2004, 5:00:14 PM9/1/04
to
"David V." <sp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fa-dndBwA4O...@sti.net...
> Joey wrote:
>> Nina_Kulagina
> A proven fraud.

Speaking of which, I thought someone mentioned Bridey Murphy in this thread.
There were two books I read back some 30 or 40 years ago. One was "The
Search for Bridey Murphy", which was about a woman who was hypnotically
regressed to childhood, and then, when the hypnotist asked her to go back
further, she became an Irish girl named Bridey Murphy, who went on to give
details of her life and times. That pretty much convinced me that
reincarnation must be real. Until I read the second book, "A Scientific
Report on The Search for Bridey Murphy". It turns out that a person under
hypnosis is anxious to please the hypnotist, or in any case will try their
darndest to do as the hypnotist asks. That includes imagining things that
never happened. But the experience feels real nonetheless. This is why
courts will not accept "memories" of child abuse that were "uncovered" while
under hypnosis. The person is very suggestible while hypnotized, and it is
easy to implant memories, even unintentionally. In fact, there was a movie
about a real occurence called "Indictment: The MacMartin Pre-School Case". A
"social worker", who was not qualified to conduct interviews, induced
children to remember things which never happened. Everyone was willing to
believe the kids at first, until their stories became wilder, about airplane
trips that could not have happened, and sacrificing animals in cultish
rituals. When the defense attorney showed the tapes of the interviews, it
became clear that she was leading the children down her path rather than
getting their true memory of events. She likely did so completely in
ignorance, with no intent to deceive, but she deceived herself and many
others nonetheless. I've noticed at least one article at the APA site about
memory implant experiments with children (totally innocuous memories) which
demonstrate how easily this is done.

So, the long and short of it is that we humans are easily deceived. And that
means skepticism is to be highly valued by anyone who values truth.


ralph

unread,
Sep 1, 2004, 1:46:08 PM9/1/04
to
>The fact that none
>> has yet been found does not prove that one may not exist, of course, but
>> does make it very unlikely.
>
>Since spiritualism and science contradict, science does not want an
>explaination for ghosts

Science is the search for truth; it seeks explanations for all things.
Spiritualists do not like the explanation which science has given, and I
have repeated.

>anymore than medical science acknowledges the
>healing properties of herbs and holistic medicine.

Many "scientific" medicines are based on herbs, and science uses a
holistic approach where it has been shown to work. What science rejects
is the idea that, because it is alternative, it must be better.
Exhaustive studies have shown that much alternative medicine is
valueless. My nephew spent four years, and a great deal of money,
looking for an alternative treatment for his chordoma. He died
nevertheless, because alternative treatments worked no better than
orthodox treatments.

> You won't find a
>scientist trying to prove thier existance, only trying to prove thier
>nonexistance.

Popper showed that that was all that we could do. We have more
confidence in that which we have been unable to disprove - that's how
science progresses.

> Thier has been plenty of work done out there by people
>who have photographed spectors and detected them on specially made
>electronic devices, however this is not considered to be science any
>more than the medical world considers a chiropractor to be a doctor.

Never mind the analogies, stick with the evidence. If the examples you
quote could be replicated, scientists would be very interested.

Are you aware of the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research (PEAR)?
This dry title covers a long series of experiments which showed
conclusively that the mind (or rather, some minds) could influence
inanimate events. It supports your view that we are far from
understanding everything, and is scientifically impeccable.


--
ralph

Joey

unread,
Sep 2, 2004, 1:47:00 AM9/2/04
to
"David V." <sp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<fa-dndBwA4O...@sti.net>...

A strong comment. Direct me to your proof.

Joey

unread,
Sep 2, 2004, 1:47:07 AM9/2/04
to
"David V." <sp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<fa-dndBwA4O...@sti.net>...

A strong comment. Direct me to your proof.

Joey

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Sep 2, 2004, 2:30:15 AM9/2/04
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"Marvin Edwards" <mbe...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<yLqZc.421$Vl5...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...

I have just seen too many things to be skeptical. In pennsylvania I
have a cousin whose wife had ovarian cancer the tests were all proven
positive and she was going to see her doctor to do a final examination
and discuss her treatment. When she was sitting in the doctor's
waiting room a retarded boy from the neighborhood walked into the
waiting room and walked directly up to her and placed his hand on her
stomach and then walked out. When she went in to see the doctor, he
could not find a trace of any cancer. I also live in Hawaii now and
there is a field on the Big Island that was the site of an ancient
battle. On the opposite side of it is a fishing beach. If you walk
across this field on some nights you can here the unmistakable screams
and cries of men in battle. A professional photographer friend of mine
took a picture that was published in a hawaiiana book of a volcano
spewing lava and the fire formed an unmistakably detailed vision of
pele the fire godess down to the five fingers on each hand and the
facial details identical to all of the pictures and drawings of her.
It brings chills to the spines of people who see it. My wife was
driving from a sacred haeau and making fun of pele one night when for
no reason her lights went out on her car. After about five minutes of
trying to get them to work she apologized and the lights immediately
worked again. A lot of people over here are aware of these things
particularly on the Big Island and they don't fuck with them. And
these are not local yahoos but intelligent and important people. These
situations go well beyond the reasoning of chance. I accidentally
desecrated an ancient hawaiian altar while camping in the forest one
night and was almost the victim of a flash flood from a storm that
came out of the middle of nowhere. You can believe what you want. All
I am telling you is that what I have seen goes beyond rational thought
and I am a scientific man, and if you had been in any of these
situations you would have been hard pressed to find a rational
explaination without looking like a complete idiot.

ian

unread,
Sep 2, 2004, 8:02:24 AM9/2/04
to
"David V." <sp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<Jcudnawhdeg...@sti.net>...

With the credibility of LRH when he was an artificial sea captain he
and his followers can only live in a dream world.

David V.

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Sep 2, 2004, 11:40:36 AM9/2/04
to
Joey wrote:
> "David V." <sp...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
>> Joey wrote:
>>
>>> jan_v...@yahoo.com (ian) wrote in message
>>>
>>>> During consciousness thoughts can be produced at
>>>> free will which is equivalent to dreams, thus is
>>>> energy produced? If so why can't my thought energy
>>>> move an object?
>>>
>>> Nina_Kulagina
>>
>> A proven fraud.
>
> A strong comment. Direct me to your proof.

Reality. You claim she's real; you have to do the proving.
Send her to Randi and let her claim the prize money and THEN
I'll believe you. Until then you're just making noise.

David V.

unread,
Sep 2, 2004, 11:42:59 AM9/2/04