forbidden flesh

[RichD]

Is there any meat that we can't eat? That's inherently
toxic to humans?

Let's assume we roast everything, to manage the parasite
problem. There are cultural taboos, of course; some folks
eat dogs and horses, some don't. But I mean strictly
nutritionally.

I'm wondering about the 'omni' in omnivore -

--
Rich

[Gary Hurd]

I cannot think of a vertebrate we humans cannot eat. Some need more preparation than others.

[jillery]

If by "meat" you mean animal protein, and if by "animal" you mean
anything heterotrophic, my understanding is there are some of these
things which are toxic to humans; think fugu.


--
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Attributed to Voltaire

[Ernest Major]

On 19/09/2019 05:28, jillery wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 20:54:53 -0700 (PDT), RichD
> <r_dela...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there any meat that we can't eat? That's inherently
>> toxic to humans?
>>
>> Let's assume we roast everything, to manage the parasite
>> problem. There are cultural taboos, of course; some folks
>> eat dogs and horses, some don't. But I mean strictly
>> nutritionally.
>>
>> I'm wondering about the 'omni' in omnivore -
>
>
> If by "meat" you mean animal protein, and if by "animal" you mean
> anything heterotrophic, my understanding is there are some of these
> things which are toxic to humans; think fugu.
>

The dose makes the poison, but polar bear liver is toxic. But perhaps by
meat he means muscle tissue.

Apart from fugu, pitohuis and poison dart frogs are poisonous.

Wikipedia has https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_poisonous_animals

Fugu is not the only thing on that list which is eaten.

--
alias Ernest Major

[jillery]

To limit "meat" to muscle tissue is a cultural and historically recent
sense of the word.

Fugu is descriptive example, not an exhaustive one.

[Burkhard]

But with some of the animals on the list, the poison is not heat stable
(unlike the Tetrodotoxin in Fugu) so for RichD's scenario they would not
count - an example is e.g. the Greenland shark, which is poisonous
unless prepared properly, when you'd get e.g. Hákarl after fermentation
(OK, for a certain value of properly...) How heat stable is vitamin A
(the toxic in polar bear liver)? Much more than C, but not sure if you
could get rid of it.

Two variations of the answer: some animals can be toxic if nothing else
is eaten - starving from eating rabbits

And some fish have now accumulated so much environmental toxins that
they have become dangerous if eaten in large quantities

[Ernest Major]

My post was intended as an amplification of yours, not a correction or
disagreement.

--
alias Ernest Major

[Ernest Major]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation

>
> And some fish have now accumulated so much environmental toxins that
> they have become dangerous if eaten in large quantities

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease

--
alias Ernest Major

[Burkhard]

yep, that's the bunny :o)

>>
>> And some fish have now accumulated so much environmental toxins that
>> they have become dangerous if eaten in large quantities
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease

Indeed. Which makes RichD's question a bit more open, and also
challenges the very concept of "being toxic" - do we mean in an ideal
environment only? As part of a balanced diet only
>

[*Hemidactylus*]

On the list is my favorite car, the barracuda. Ciguatera is a classic case
of bioaccumulation as it stems from dinoflagellates (how does T. rex handle
the flogger?) lower down the “chain”.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/ciguatoxin

The poison dart frogs derive toxicity from diet much like flamingos their
color.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_dart_frog

“The most toxic of poison dart frog species is Phyllobates terribilis. It
is argued that dart frogs do not synthesize their poisons, but sequester
the chemicals from arthropod prey items, such as ants, centipedes and mites
– the diet-toxicity hypothesis.[24][25] Because of this, captive-bred
animals do not possess significant levels of toxins as they are reared on
diets that do not contain the alkaloids sequestered by wild populations. In
fact, new studies suggest that the maternal frogs of some species lay
unfertilized eggs, which are laced with trace amounts of alkaloids, to feed
the tadpoles.[26]”

Marine toads are a nasty bunch. Not sure if Cuban tree frogs can be made
edible, but their skin secretions are quite nasty. Garter and ribbon snakes
love them. Guess not poisonous to pets?:

https://wec.ifas.ufl.edu/extension/wildlife_info/faq/frogstoads.php

[*Hemidactylus*]

Humans are resourceful given sourcing of tapioca and fried cassava (Cuban
dish yuca frita). And many of our best nuts are related to poison ivy.

[Mark Isaak]

And nobody has yet mentioned allergies, which make some flesh toxic to
some people. Shellfish is the only widespread flesh allergy that I know of.

--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) curioustaxonomy (dot) net
"Omnia disce. Videbis postea nihil esse superfluum."
- Hugh of St. Victor

[Burkhard]

Yes, good point! Alpha-gal (mammalian meat allergy (MMA) allergy would
be another example

[Don Cates]

See Scandinavia and the World
<https://satwcomic.com/icelandic-cookbook>

How heat stable is vitamin A
> (the toxic in polar bear liver)? Much more than C, but not sure if you
> could get rid of it.
>
> Two variations of the answer: some animals can be toxic if nothing else
> is eaten - starving from eating rabbits
>
> And some fish have now accumulated so much environmental toxins that
> they have become dangerous if eaten in large quantities
>
>

--
--
Don Cates ("he's a cunning rascal" PN)

[jillery]

On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 15:34:22 +0100, Ernest Major

ok