News: SC Education Board approves textbook, despite questions.
Ye Old One
http://www.charlotte.com/205/story/438860.html
SC Education Board approves textbook, despite questions
By SEANNA ADCOX
Associated Press Writer
COLUMBIA, S.C. --
The South Carolina Education Board approved a biology textbook
Wednesday for public schools, despite questions from critics worried
about how the book teaches evolution.
The board voted 9-7 to approve the textbook's latest edition, which
can be used in ninth- and tenth-grade biology classrooms. Science
teachers from across the state erupted in applause after the vote.
Board member Charles McKinney argued the origin of life is an
incomplete mystery and thinks the book presents evolution as fact
rather than theory.
He asked the board to "carefully weigh the impact that distorted
science opinion presented as scientific truth in adopted text will
have upon youth." He said evolution was used by Nazi Germany and other
totalitarian states as an excuse to kill millions of people.
"I need to assure that neo-Darwinism is not allowed to project lies
that could once again allow the emergence of social Darwinism,"
McKinney said.
The former teacher said teaching evolution doesn't bother him, as long
as students are taught it's an incomplete science. He said he realizes
creationism can't be taught, because the courts have ruled against it.
The book's co-author, Ken Miller, disputed the criticisms and said the
updated book's section on evolution is unchanged from the textbook
already used in South Carolina and all 49 other states.
Miller challenged the board to find a single reference to evolution as
law or fact rather than theory. No one could.
Miller called it absurd and insulting to blame the theory of evolution
for the deaths of hundreds of millions of people. Adolf Hitler and
Joseph Stalin were driven by racism, anti-Semitism and socialist
utopianism, not scientific theory on the origin of the species, he
said.
"It's almost shameful to me that we're spending so much time
questioning whether evolution should be taught in school in 2008,"
said board member Trip DuBard of Florence. "I thought we were beyond
that. If you can't support teaching science to kids, something else is
going on."
Several board members called it embarrassing that so many science
specialists had to come to the meeting to defend a textbook. They also
argued that rejecting the book would send a message to teachers that
their expertise isn't wanted. The textbook was given top ratings last
year by a panel of 11 South Carolina teachers.
In South Carolina, the state pays for textbooks and the state
Education Board approves which can be used in classrooms after a panel
review.
McKinney said he based his objections on critiques by retired Clemson
University botanist Horace Skipper and Pickens County school board
member Oscar Thorsland. The board approved other biology textbooks in
December, but postponed discussion on Miller's because McKinney wanted
to review the complaints.
The objections included that volcanic eruptions have proved geologic
formations can happen in days or months, not millions of years, and
dating methods are unreliable, so the textbook should not refer to
something as billions of years old.
Miller said dating is reliable, and just because some geologic
formations were created quickly doesn't mean everything formed that
way.
"The state of South Carolina has never disappointed me this much,"
said sophomore David Camak, of Ware Shoals, who identified himself as
a biology major and a Christian. He declined to give his college. "It
seems to me that this reviewer does not want students to think at
all."
Clemson professor Jerry Waldvogel said he and his colleagues were
disturbed the complaints came from someone identified as a Clemson
professor. He submitted a letter signed by 130 other Clemson faculty
saying they don't support Skipper's objections.
--
Bob.
Ritsjoena
> Posted on Wed, Jan. 09, 2008http://www.charlotte.com/205/story/438860.html
>
> SC Education Board approves textbook, despite questions
> By SEANNA ADCOX
> Associated Press Writer
>
> COLUMBIA, S.C. --
> The South Carolina Education Board approved a biology textbook
> Wednesday for public schools, despite questions from critics worried
> about how the book teaches evolution.
Good
>
> The board voted 9-7 to approve the textbook's latest edition, which
> can be used in ninth- and tenth-grade biology classrooms. Science
> teachers from across the state erupted in applause after the vote.
>
> Board member Charles McKinney argued the origin of life is an
> incomplete mystery and thinks the book presents evolution as fact
> rather than theory.
>
There is still a lot to discover about evolution so in a sense he is
right about being incomplete. However I don't think it is in the way
he presents it to be.
> He asked the board to "carefully weigh the impact that distorted
> science opinion presented as scientific truth in adopted text will
Nothing wrong with that. Even a good warning in general.
> have upon youth." He said evolution was used by Nazi Germany and other
> totalitarian states as an excuse to kill millions of people.
So evolution has to be taught well and to everyone to prevent
misinterpretations and abuse. Right again, but not in the way he
thinks he is.
> "I need to assure that neo-Darwinism is not allowed to project lies
> that could once again allow the emergence of social Darwinism,"
> McKinney said.
Right again. But, based on the reactions of teachers, I would conclude
that this book is good to use.
>
> The former teacher said teaching evolution doesn't bother him, as long
> as students are taught it's an incomplete science. He said he realizes
I think it is good to show students the limits of the theory and give
them a sense of what something being a scientific theory means. So
nothing wrong there, but not in the sense he wants.
> creationism can't be taught, because the courts have ruled against it.
Smart man. But this also shows his true intentions.
>
> The book's co-author, Ken Miller, disputed the criticisms and said the
> updated book's section on evolution is unchanged from the textbook
> already used in South Carolina and all 49 other states.
>
Good to know.
> Miller challenged the board to find a single reference to evolution as
> law or fact rather than theory. No one could.
Now, why doesn't that surprise me?
>
> Miller called it absurd and insulting to blame the theory of evolution
> for the deaths of hundreds of millions of people. Adolf Hitler and
> Joseph Stalin were driven by racism, anti-Semitism and socialist
> utopianism, not scientific theory on the origin of the species, he
> said.
True, although the ideas of evolution was abused in their attempt to
convince people that this was the path to go.
>
> "It's almost shameful to me that we're spending so much time
> questioning whether evolution should be taught in school in 2008,"
True, the matter is settled by now (and for now). Just some people who
still don't accept that.
> said board member Trip DuBard of Florence. "I thought we were beyond
> that. If you can't support teaching science to kids, something else is
> going on."
Now, what would that be? ;)
>
> Several board members called it embarrassing that so many science
> specialists had to come to the meeting to defend a textbook. They also
Just shows how stubborn and politically minded creationists are.
> argued that rejecting the book would send a message to teachers that
> their expertise isn't wanted. The textbook was given top ratings last
> year by a panel of 11 South Carolina teachers.
Their expertise is not wanted, by creationists that is. They think it
contradicts their illusions. And they are addicted to their illusions.
Good that this book gets top ratings, while it is under creationist
fire.
>
> In South Carolina, the state pays for textbooks and the state
> Education Board approves which can be used in classrooms after a panel
> review.
>
> McKinney said he based his objections on critiques by retired Clemson
> University botanist Horace Skipper and Pickens County school board
> member Oscar Thorsland. The board approved other biology textbooks in
> December, but postponed discussion on Miller's because McKinney wanted
> to review the complaints.
Creationists keep burdening the system. Maybe we should start sending
them the bill.
>
> The objections included that volcanic eruptions have proved geologic
> formations can happen in days or months, not millions of years, and
> dating methods are unreliable, so the textbook should not refer to
> something as billions of years old.
Typical example of narrow minded thinking. Things can happen only one
way.
>
> Miller said dating is reliable, and just because some geologic
> formations were created quickly doesn't mean everything formed that
> way.
>
> "The state of South Carolina has never disappointed me this much,"
> said sophomore David Camak, of Ware Shoals, who identified himself as
> a biology major and a Christian. He declined to give his college. "It
> seems to me that this reviewer does not want students to think at
> all."
He, we are talking about creationists here. They have a very narrow
definition of thinking.
>
> Clemson professor Jerry Waldvogel said he and his colleagues were
> disturbed the complaints came from someone identified as a Clemson
> professor. He submitted a letter signed by 130 other Clemson faculty
> saying they don't support Skipper's objections.
Neither do I
Geoff
>> Board member Charles McKinney argued the origin of life is an
>> incomplete mystery and thinks the book presents evolution as fact
>> rather than theory.
>
> There is still a lot to discover about evolution so in a sense he is
> right about being incomplete. However I don't think it is in the way
> he presents it to be.
The *theory* is incomplete, as *all* theories are, in that theories are a
necessarily imperfect human model explaining what we observe. Calling it a
"mystery" is sheer ignorance.
And evolution *is* a fact, observations of which are described by
evolutionary theory.
>> have upon youth." He said evolution was used by Nazi Germany and
>> other totalitarian states as an excuse to kill millions of people.
>
> So evolution has to be taught well and to everyone to prevent
> misinterpretations and abuse. Right again, but not in the way he
> thinks he is.
It's a scare tactic and should be seen as such. The fact that scientific
discovery can be twisted to suit the needs of politicians and warmongers is
nothing new. You are right. This calls for better education, not a
moratorium on it.
>> The former teacher said teaching evolution doesn't bother him, as
>> long as students are taught it's an incomplete science.
>> He said he realizes
>
> I think it is good to show students the limits of the theory and give
> them a sense of what something being a scientific theory means. So
> nothing wrong there, but not in the sense he wants.
Absolutely. There should be no couching terms here. By teaching that
evolution is an incomplete science, he wants to open the door for
ID/creationism.
>> creationism can't be taught, because the courts have ruled against
>> it.
>
> Smart man. But this also shows his true intentions.
He may be smart, but he's an ignoramus. And yes, he's basically saying that
he thinks that creationism should be taught but for the reckless decisions
of liberal courts.
>> Miller challenged the board to find a single reference to evolution
>> as law or fact rather than theory. No one could.
>
> Now, why doesn't that surprise me?
No. No one would want to do that even though it's true. Evolution is as much
a fact as gravity.
>> Miller called it absurd and insulting to blame the theory of
>> evolution for the deaths of hundreds of millions of people. Adolf
>> Hitler and
>> Joseph Stalin were driven by racism, anti-Semitism and socialist
>> utopianism, not scientific theory on the origin of the species, he
>> said.
>
> True, although the ideas of evolution was abused in their attempt to
> convince people that this was the path to go.
So what? Newtonian mechanics has been used to kill far more people but I
don't here anyone wanting to strike that from science class.
>> Clemson professor Jerry Waldvogel said he and his colleagues were
>> disturbed the complaints came from someone identified as a Clemson
>> professor. He submitted a letter signed by 130 other Clemson faculty
>> saying they don't support Skipper's objections.
>
> Neither do I
Nor do I.
Ye Old One
I've actually added my following comments on thier site.
Looking at this as an outsider, I'm in the UK, it always strikes me as
insane the way American's get their selves so twisted over this
subject.
Evolution is a FACT. Nobody can possible deny that. The Theory of
Evolution (ToE) is 150 years old, though it has developed and expanded
over those years with the understanding which came with genetics and
the discovery of DNA. And in that 150 years there has been no
successful alternative found.
In the UK our schools, almost universally, manage to teach evolution
and an understanding of how it underpins biology. We also, again
almost universally, manage to teach Religious Studies which help our
children understand the major (and sometimes minor) religions of the
world - not just christianity.
The result, I'm pleased to say, is a far more secular society and a
far greater tolerance for the religious beliefs of others.
Please remember two things which so many American's forget.
1) Science classes should teach science. Creationism is NOT science
and nor is ID.
2) Your constitution prohibits the "establishment" of a state
religion. It does not and should not prevent your children learning
about religion in schools - provided it covers a reasonable cross
section of religions it really is a good thing - if only for exposing
some of the silly ideas many religious people have.
Sorry this has been so long. May common sense forever be at home with
you.
--
Bob.
Ritsjoena
I'm an outsider too. Living just at the other side of the North Sea.
> insane the way American's get their selves so twisted over this
> subject.
In a way it is funny. Unfortunately it is serious.
>
> Evolution is a FACT. Nobody can possible deny that. The Theory of
Actually they can. What they cant do is deny it and be right about it
at the same time. But they don't care about that.
> Evolution (ToE) is 150 years old, though it has developed and expanded
> over those years with the understanding which came with genetics and
> the discovery of DNA. And in that 150 years there has been no
> successful alternative found.
Does not mean there ain't any. Just that creationists are wrong.
>
> In the UK our schools, almost universally, manage to teach evolution
> and an understanding of how it underpins biology. We also, again
> almost universally, manage to teach Religious Studies which help our
> children understand the major (and sometimes minor) religions of the
> world - not just christianity.
It has been a while ago that I experienced it and things are certainly
changed but here in Holland it was and (as I understand it it) still
is more or less the same.
>
> The result, I'm pleased to say, is a far more secular society and a
> far greater tolerance for the religious beliefs of others.
Could be (much) better, especially considering some outspoken
political examples. But for the general population it is more or less
the same here.
Desertphile
wrote:
> Board member Charles McKinney argued the origin of life is an
> incomplete mystery and thinks the book presents evolution as fact
> rather than theory.
Because evolution is a fact. Golly, how dare scientists say a fact
is a fact!
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
Desertphile
wrote:
> "I need to assure that neo-Darwinism is not allowed to project lies
> that could once again allow the emergence of social Darwinism,"
> McKinney said.
Neither exist.
Ye Old One
Ah, the side with more flowers and less windmills :)
Oh, and some VERY nice women (and no, I don't mean those women).
>
>> insane the way American's get their selves so twisted over this
>> subject.
>
>In a way it is funny. Unfortunately it is serious.
>
>>
>> Evolution is a FACT. Nobody can possible deny that. The Theory of
>
>Actually they can. What they cant do is deny it and be right about it
>at the same time. But they don't care about that.
>
>> Evolution (ToE) is 150 years old, though it has developed and expanded
>> over those years with the understanding which came with genetics and
>> the discovery of DNA. And in that 150 years there has been no
>> successful alternative found.
>
>Does not mean there ain't any. Just that creationists are wrong.
>
>>
>> In the UK our schools, almost universally, manage to teach evolution
>> and an understanding of how it underpins biology. We also, again
>> almost universally, manage to teach Religious Studies which help our
>> children understand the major (and sometimes minor) religions of the
>> world - not just christianity.
>
>It has been a while ago that I experienced it and things are certainly
>changed but here in Holland it was and (as I understand it it) still
>is more or less the same.
Some close friends have kids in the dutch system at the moment and I
would agree, it is still the same.
>
>>
>> The result, I'm pleased to say, is a far more secular society and a
>> far greater tolerance for the religious beliefs of others.
>
>Could be (much) better, especially considering some outspoken
>political examples. But for the general population it is more or less
>the same here.
I agree.
>
>>
>> Please remember two things which so many American's forget.
>>
>> 1) Science classes should teach science. Creationism is NOT science
>> and nor is ID.
>>
>> 2) Your constitution prohibits the "establishment" of a state
>> religion. It does not and should not prevent your children learning
>> about religion in schools - provided it covers a reasonable cross
>> section of religions it really is a good thing - if only for exposing
>> some of the silly ideas many religious people have.
>>
>> Sorry this has been so long. May common sense forever be at home with
>> you.
>> --
>> Bob.
--
Bob.