Discovery Institute Launches "Faith+Evolution" Website
Steven L.
http://www.faithandevolution.org/
which is intended to explore whether you can believe in God and
evolution at the same time. And whether evolution devalues human life.
You can guess what their answer is.
In that sense, it's a creationist reply to Ken Miller's BioLogos website:
which asks the same questions, and suggests different answers.
Needless to say, PZ Myers and Jerry Coyne dislike both.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/04/biologos.php
You know my position. I sincerely wish that Christianity and science
could be reconciled. But I just don't see how. The BioLogos (Collins')
arguments don't stand up to careful scientific scrutiny. Any more than
the Discovery Institute's arguments do.
--
Steven L.
Email: sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Ernest Major
<sdli...@earthlink.net> writes
>The Discovery Institute has launched a new website, "Faith+Evolution,"
>http://www.faithandevolution.org/
>
>which is intended to explore whether you can believe in God and
>evolution at the same time. And whether evolution devalues human life.
>
>You can guess what their answer is.
>
>In that sense, it's a creationist reply to Ken Miller's BioLogos website:
s/Ken Miller's/Francis Collns'/
>
>http://www.biologos.org/
>
>which asks the same questions, and suggests different answers.
>
>Needless to say, PZ Myers and Jerry Coyne dislike both.
>
>http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/04/biologos.php
>
>http://tinyurl.com/c7j2al
>
>You know my position. I sincerely wish that Christianity and science
>could be reconciled. But I just don't see how. The BioLogos
>(Collins') arguments don't stand up to careful scientific scrutiny.
>Any more than the Discovery Institute's arguments do.
>
--
alias Ernest Major
'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank
So the IDiots have finally given up on the whole "we're about science
science science and no religion at all, no sirree Bob-- and it's just
them lying atheist darwinists who say we ain't", bullshit?
Gee, sure doens't take THEM long to recognize compete and utter
failure when it smacks them in the head.
(snicker) (giggle)
================================================
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
http://www.RedandBlackPublishers.com
Dan Luke
"Steven L." wrote:
> The Discovery Institute has launched a new website, "Faith+Evolution,"
> http://www.faithandevolution.org/
>
*yawn*
The DI approaches unity with AIG.
--
Dan
"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
-Chief Inspector Dreyfus
John Smith
"Steven L." <sdli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:9ZadnYOmmazffYPX...@earthlink.com...
> The Discovery Institute has launched a new website, "Faith+Evolution,"
> http://www.faithandevolution.org/
Nothing but a rehash of all the smelly crap I.D. proponents have been
spreading for years.
Oh, and - by the way - I though "I.D." was doing it's damnedest to NOT be
associated with religion!
Frank J
Not sure if you're a NCSE member (I am since 1999), but the RNCSE
issue that arrived today has several articles on the reconciliation
issue. I don't agree with any one exactly, but I see that as all part
of the healthy debates. But even as a non-Christian I have to admit
that ~90% of the US debate (based number if not "loudness" of
participants) is strictly among Christians. If we set aside "ultimate
causes" for the moment, there are simple questions of "what happened
when" that can easily be answered. And we can also easily see one
"side" increasingly evading those questions and/or making lame excuses
for answers that they disagree with, as long as they share political
goals.
It may be that some day only one of those "sides" will inherit the
label "Christianity," but for now, Christianity and science are
reconciled in the sense that millions of self-proclaimed Christians
not only accept evolution, but even criticize anti-evolution activism.
>
> --
> Steven L.
> Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank
> I sincerely wish that Christianity and science
> could be reconciled. But I just don't see how.
And yet, the vast majority of Christians, worldwide, do exactly that.
Unless of course by "Christian" one means only the fundies -- and of
course that is exactly what the FUNDIES mean.
[M]adman
Then they are not a true Christian.
Jesus, the original Christian, did not teach evolution, nor did he elude to
evolution. Quite the contrary.
All you have shown is that a corrupt media along with a corrupt educational
system has managed convince those "millions" of Christians with weak faith
and poor teachers that your evolution bullshit is true.
Evolution is a prime example of how repeating a lie often enough will become
as if it were truth in time. But a lie elevated to the status of truth is
still a lie. And guess what happens to lies...One look at history and it
becomes clear what happens to lies; Lies do not last. Lies eventually end up
on the burn pile of mankind's history.
Which is where the theory of evolution is destined for as it is currently
defined.
adman.
wf3h
> Frank J wrote:
>
> > It may be that some day only one of those "sides" will inherit the
> > label "Christianity," but for now, Christianity and science are
> > reconciled in the sense that millions of self-proclaimed Christians
> > not only accept evolution, but even criticize anti-evolution activism.
>
> Then they are not a true Christian.
in your opinion. the pope and a billion christians disagree
>
> Jesus, the original Christian, did not teach evolution, nor did he elude to
> evolution. Quite the contrary.
he didnt teach thermodynamics or quantum physics either. yet your
computer is based on those. so does your computer work or are you
wrong?
>
> All you have shown is that a corrupt media along with a corrupt educational
> system has managed convince those "millions" of Christians with weak faith
> and poor teachers that your evolution bullshit is true.
paranoid hatred of rationality and logic are characteristics of
creationists. for 2000 years you guys said 'god did it' explained
nature. but you were wrong.
>
> Evolution is a prime example of how repeating a lie often enough will become
> as if it were truth in time. But a lie elevated to the status of truth is
> still a lie. And guess what happens to lies...One look at history and it
> becomes clear what happens to lies; Lies do not last. Lies eventually end up
> on the burn pile of mankind's history.
and creationists are the greatest liars in history
>
> Which is where the theory of evolution is destined for as it is currently
> defined.
so you say. except that creationism is dead. stone cold dead. people
have realized it's useless
proof of that is that you expect jesus to teach quantum physics and
other such nonsense. that's where your cult belief leads
creationism is useless
'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank
Ignoring the trolling attention-whore again.
R. Baldwin
news:b16466b8-222c-4e9c...@g19g2000vbi.googlegroups.com:
I don't see that reconciliation of science and Christianity really
matters. Do we try to reconcile art deco with agribusiness?
The essence of Christianity is unrelated to science.
Mike Dworetsky
news:7YFTl.1409$9L2...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
>
> "Steven L." <sdli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:9ZadnYOmmazffYPX...@earthlink.com...
>> The Discovery Institute has launched a new website, "Faith+Evolution,"
>> http://www.faithandevolution.org/
>
> Nothing but a rehash of all the smelly crap I.D. proponents have been
> spreading for years.
> Oh, and - by the way - I though "I.D." was doing it's damnedest to NOT be
> associated with religion!
>
Depends if they are doing a fund-raising campaign.
>>
>> which is intended to explore whether you can believe in God and evolution
>> at the same time. And whether evolution devalues human life.
>>
>> You can guess what their answer is.
>>
>> In that sense, it's a creationist reply to Ken Miller's BioLogos website:
>>
>> http://www.biologos.org/
>>
>> which asks the same questions, and suggests different answers.
>>
>> Needless to say, PZ Myers and Jerry Coyne dislike both.
>>
>> http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/04/biologos.php
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/c7j2al
>>
>> You know my position. I sincerely wish that Christianity and science
>> could be reconciled. But I just don't see how. The BioLogos (Collins')
>> arguments don't stand up to careful scientific scrutiny. Any more than
>> the Discovery Institute's arguments do.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steven L.
>> Email: sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
>> Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
>>
>
--
Mike Dworetsky
(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)
Rolf
> The Discovery Institute has launched a new website, "Faith+Evolution,"
> http://www.faithandevolution.org/
>
> which is intended to explore whether you can believe in God and
> evolution at the same time. And whether evolution devalues human
> life.
>
> You can guess what their answer is.
>
> In that sense, it's a creationist reply to Ken Miller's BioLogos
> website:
>
> http://www.biologos.org/
>
> which asks the same questions, and suggests different answers.
>
> Needless to say, PZ Myers and Jerry Coyne dislike both.
>
> http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/04/biologos.php
>
> http://tinyurl.com/c7j2al
>
> You know my position. I sincerely wish that Christianity and science
> could be reconciled. But I just don't see how.
I do;-) :
All it takes is to drop literalism, accept that we are dealing with myths,
not historical facts. That applies especially to the belief that the Gosepls
are historical accounts. What they really are is the ancient Osiris-Dionysos
myth retold in a new setting. The Gnostics knew it was a myth but the
literalists won the war..
Mitchell Coffey
It's a sad little man who can't even accurately quote that bastard
Trotsky.
Mitchell Coffey
Burkhard
wrote:
http://www.marottagallery.com/cowl.htm
Frank J
wrote:
Of course not, but that subject does not have many common
misconceptions. It may not help either evolution or Christianity if
they are reconciled or not, but it helps clear up public
misconceptions. Misconceptions that anti-evolution activists rely on
to mislead people.
>
> The essence of Christianity is unrelated to science.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Frank J
Do you consider Behe a "true Christian"? As you know he accepts common
descent, plenty of death before the Fall, and even says that reading
the Bible as a science text is silly?
If you think he's not a true Christian, would you go as far as this
guy and consider him an atheist?":
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/browse_frm/thread/c9b4b5debde62f5d?hl=en#
>
> Jesus, the original Christian, did not teach evolution, nor did he elude to
> evolution. Quite the contrary.
He didn't teach quantum mechanics either. How about that!
(snip)
D9000
> Jesus, the original Christian, did not teach evolution, nor did he elude to
> evolution. Quite the contrary.
He didn't elude the Roman troops, either. (Some say he rose from the
dead, but that's just an elusion).
Robert Carnegie
wrote:
Be that as it may, if they're dating again (I decided "getting into
bed" was a distracting metaphor), I want to know who's making the
concessions and what they are.
I think the only rule science needs to impose on religious people who
want to get into science (you see? distracting) is that you aren't
allowed to deny reality when you're on the job. Or to choose your
evidence and your conclusions to favour your non-scientific beliefs.
So for instance if you disapprove of stem cell research, you mustn't
let that affect your rational judgment of whether it works or not.
Boikat
In your dreams,
Boikat
John Stockwell
Jesus also did not apparently teach electronics or differential
calculus,
nor did he allude to these topics, or the thousands other topics of
modern
science.
>
> All you have shown is that a corrupt media along with a corrupt educational
> system has managed convince those "millions" of Christians with weak faith
> and poor teachers that your evolution bullshit is true.
>
> Evolution is a prime example of how repeating a lie often enough will become
> as if it were truth in time. But a lie elevated to the status of truth is
> still a lie. And guess what happens to lies...One look at history and it
> becomes clear what happens to lies; Lies do not last. Lies eventually end up
> on the burn pile of mankind's history.
>
> Which is where the theory of evolution is destined for as it is currently
> defined.
This is a common claim, yet it doesn't really hold water. Evolution
isn't
going away, and when religious people recognizing that denying
evolution
is as silly as denying air, then evolution will be an accepted part of
the
worldview of religious people. Indeed, that has already happened with
most
reasonable people. Indeed, the notion of evolution itself, will be
viewed as
being integral in accepting the notion of God.
Indeed, the modern vocal atheist movement is entirely a reaction to
evolution (i.e. science) denial. The easiest way for the Christian
community
to silence the vocal atheists would be to adopt a physicalist view of
secular matters, and retain a religious view as sacred space, and
simultaneously
recognize that such a view protects freedom of speech and freedom
of religion.
>
> adman.
-John
Dana Tweedy
> Frank J wrote:
snip
>>
>> It may be that some day only one of those "sides" will inherit the
>> label "Christianity," but for now, Christianity and science are
>> reconciled in the sense that millions of self-proclaimed Christians
>> not only accept evolution, but even criticize anti-evolution
>> activism.
>
> Then they are not a true Christian.
You don't get to make that judgement.
>
> Jesus, the original Christian, did not teach evolution, nor did he
> elude to evolution. Quite the contrary.
Jesus didn't teach any kind of biology.
>
> All you have shown is that a corrupt media along with a corrupt
> educational system has managed convince those "millions" of
> Christians with weak faith and poor teachers that your evolution
> bullshit is true.
Notice you claim that evolution is "bullshit" but you've never been able to
come up with any valid criticisim of the theory.
>
> Evolution is a prime example of how repeating a lie often enough will
> become as if it were truth in time. But a lie elevated to the status
> of truth is still a lie.
But a truth is still true, even when you try to deny it. Evolution is
true, not matter how much you wish to avoid that truth.
>And guess what happens to lies...One look at
> history and it becomes clear what happens to lies; Lies do not last.
> Lies eventually end up on the burn pile of mankind's history.
Which is where creationism is today.
>
> Which is where the theory of evolution is destined for as it is
> currently defined.
So you say, but your own personal beliefs have no impact on truth.
DJT
[M]adman
That is because he did not come to discuss these topics. He came to clue you
in about the kingdom of God and your true origins which is God.
Lies eventually die out.
Which is happening to the lie of evolution as we speak.
'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank
Ignoring the trolling attention-whore.
er...@swva.net
You do not have any say in the matter.
>
> Jesus, the original Christian, did not teach evolution, nor did he elude to
> evolution. Quite the contrary.
He also didn't mention quantum physics. What a loser thing for you to
say.
>
> All you have shown is that a corrupt media along with a corrupt educational
> system has managed convince those "millions" of Christians with weak faith
> and poor teachers
That would be you and your ilk (an apology to ilk.)
(snip absurd lie about evolution being bullshit.)
> But a lie elevated to the status of truth is
> still a lie. And guess what happens to lies...One look at history and it
> becomes clear what happens to lies; Lies do not last. Lies eventually end up
> on the burn pile of mankind's history.
.
(snip)
Eric Root
Frank J
And indeed ~1/2 of the Christian community, including nearly all
science-literate members, have done just that. While it's conceivable
that they could have done that in the absence of evidence (for
evolution and all other scientific conclusions that contradict literal
interpretations of scripture) as a *strategy* to silence atheists. But
they *have* the evidence and admit it at least as confidently as
atheists. So the fact that it happens to silence atheists is a
"bonus," not a goal.
Meanwhile the vocal minorities of Chistians (Muslims and Jews too, but
not many of the latter) *energize* the militant atheists by insisting
on challenging - and increasingly merely *misrepresenting* - science.
I should add that many (most?) rank-and-file creationists do keep
quiet about their beliefs (of long-refuted literal interpretations of
scripture) so not to energize atheists. For some it may be a strategy,
but for others it may be a case of knowing that they believe it on
faith and don't have the evidence to back it up.
>
>
>
> > adman.
>
> -John
>
>
>
>
>
> > >> --
> > >> Steven L.
> > >> Email: sdlit...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
> > >> Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Frank J
> On May 29, 3:04 am, "Steven L." <sdlit...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > I sincerely wish that Christianity and science
> > could be reconciled. But I just don't see how.
>
> And yet, the vast majority of Christians, worldwide, do exactly that.
>
> Unless of course by "Christian" one means only the fundies -- and of
> course that is exactly what the FUNDIES mean.
What amazes me is how fundamentalists use the word "Christian" not
only to mean just themselves, but *interchangeably* with the common
definition that denotes the entire set of self-proclaimed Christians,
fundamentalist or otherwise. They use whatever definition is
convenient to their current argument. Many (most?) are unaware that
they are doing that, but certainly not all of them. Certainly not the
ones who are also anti-evolution activists, and apply that same bait-
and-switch to nearly every term they use.
roki...@cox.net
You would expect some difference of opinion, but the main ID scam
artists are put up. Meyers, Johnson, Behe, Kenyon, Nelson, etc. My
take is that the take from the rubes was drying up and these guys had
to do something to milk more money from the creationists that they
have been lying to for years. It is pretty sad that all the guys that
were claiming that it wasn't about religion are admitting that they
lied about that, but it must have been for a good cause, so you should
forgive them and send in more money so that they can continue to lie,
repeat some other dishonest scam, etc. Just look at Behe. He has
claimed that he never supported teaching intelligent design in the
science class and that he knew nothing about the Wedge document, but
he is here supporting this stance when he has even claimed that
evolution happened, but it didn't happen the way that a lot of these
other guys like Wells and Kenyon believe.
Just like everything the Discovery Institute has been caught lying
about for years you have to read between the lines and figure out how
they are lying. Notice that most of them aren't claiming anything
about biological evolution, but about some mythical Darwinism. When
you look up what they mean by that, it isn't biological evolution
(which several of them agree happened), but science in general that
they have a beef about. Everything that they don't like about science
is Darwinism. Geophysics is Darwinism, the big bang is Darwinism.
The sad thing is that this is about the most honest bull pucky that
they have put up. They are admitting that they lied for years about
this whole fiasco being about religion, but they have to lie about
what they are lying about while they are confessing. How sad is
that? The only people that support the intelligent design creationist
scam at this time are the ignorant, incompetent and or dishonest.
This web site does nothing to invalidate that observation. In fact
you don't have to guess about people like Nelson and Behe any longer
and then it was only a choice between incompetent and dishonest. Are
these guys going to claim that they were duped into participating?
They have been fellows at an instititue that has been running a bogus
bait and switch scam on their creationist support base for over half a
decade. Some of them like Philip Johnson have even admitted that they
never had the intelligent design science to teach to school kids that
they claimed to have. You can't make this junk up.
Ron Okimoto
Desertphile
<sdli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> The Discovery Institute has launched a new website, "Faith+Evolution,"
> http://www.faithandevolution.org/
>
> which is intended to explore whether you can believe in God and
> evolution at the same time.
Believing in evolution is just fucking stupid. As for believing
"in gods," that's all they can do: believe in them.
> And whether evolution devalues human life.
No more than snow does.
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz