Childbirth Proves Genesis

[[M]adman]

Genesis 3

16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your
husband, and he shall rule over you."

We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that human women
have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.

About everything.

--
It is all about the truth with:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
·.¸Adman¸.·
^^^^^^^^^^^

[raven1]

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:28:25 -0500, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et>
wrote:

>Genesis 3
>
>16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
>in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your
>husband, and he shall rule over you."
>
>We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that human women
>have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.
>
>About everything.

Sure is dark under that bridge.

[hersheyh]

Interesting. So your version of God is that He really is a
misogynistic sadist. Something else in common with the Taliban. Oh,
wait. You and the Taliban share the *same* God, differing primarily
in the choice of Prophets. Happy mother's day! I know she suffered
with you.

[spintronic]

You'll have a sermon now about pelvic bones and big heads.

But that's not the reason Y.O.O's mum howled in pain.

Well it's not easy giving birth to "John Merrick" you know.

But nice one Adman, I totally agree.

[Anlatt the Builder]

On Apr 21, 2:28 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> Genesis 3
>
> 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
> in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your
> husband, and he shall rule over you."
>
> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that human women
> have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.
>

Genesis is certainly accurate that human women experience pain during
childbirth. That's because it was written AFTER THE FACT - that is,
the people who wrote it already knew that women experienced pain
during childbirth, so they put that obvious, well-known fact in the
book. This proves absolutely nothing.

Beyond that, you keep repeating your favorite fallacy: "If humans
have any features that are not also shared by other non-extinct
species, then evolution is wrong." If you actually knew what the
theory of evolution SAID, you would stop making this embarrassing
mistake.

How sure are you that no other animals suffer pain during childbirth?
Any citations to back that up?

> About everything.
>
>

So if a book is correct about some well-known fact, it's correct about
everything? Great! According to the Harry Potter books, kids like
candy. This is true. Therefore the Harry Potter books are right about
EVERYTHING!

[Sapient Fridge]

In message <LJqHl.31185$i9.2...@bignews7.bellsouth.net>, "[M]adman"
<ad...@hotmail.et> writes

>Genesis 3
>
>16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
>in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your
>husband, and he shall rule over you."

The pain of childbirth is an observation, not a prediction.

>We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that human women
>have during child birth.

How many other animals have a brain/body ratio anywhere near humans and
a pelvis which has evolved to allow upright walking? If you said
"none" then you would be correct.

The problem humans have giving birth is a consequence of the tradeoff
between brain size, a pelvis that will work well for walking upright and
ease of giving birth. A rather nasty tradeoff.

http://weber.ucsd.edu/~dkjordan/resources/clarifications/HumanBirth.html
http://johnhawks.net/weblog/topics/bipedalism/bipedal_pelvis.html

>Therefore Genesis is accurate.

Non-sequitur

>About everything.

Unsupported assertion
--
sapient_...@spamsights.org ICQ #17887309 * Save the net *
Grok: http://spam.abuse.net http://www.cauce.org * nuke a spammer *
Find: http://www.samspade.org http://www.netdemon.net * today *
Kill: http://spamsights.org http://spews.org http://spamhaus.org

[spintronic]

On Apr 21, 10:53 pm, Anlatt the Builder <tirh...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Apr 21, 2:28 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
>
> > Genesis 3
>
> > 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
> > in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your
> > husband, and he shall rule over you."
>
> > We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that human women
> > have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.
>
> Genesis is certainly accurate that human women experience pain during
> childbirth. That's because it was written AFTER THE FACT - that is,
> the people who wrote it already knew that women experienced pain
> during childbirth, so they put that obvious, well-known fact in the
> book. This proves absolutely nothing.

So how do you explain Isaiah 44:26 - 45:2

[Garamond Lethe]

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:28:25 -0500, [M]adman wrote:

> Genesis 3
>
> 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in
> childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire
> shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."
>
> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that human
> women have during child birth.

The female hyena gives birth through her clitoris.

"[Androgen] also causes female reproductive organs to grow. A lot. Her
clitoris, which contains the birthing canal, protrudes 7 inches from her
body. "Imagine giving birth through a penis," said study co-author Kay
Holekamp of Michigan State University. "It's really weird genitalia, but
it seems to work. Although giving birth through a 'penis' isn't a trivial
problem." The clitoris' birth canal is only an inch in diameter, and the
tissue often tears as a 2-pound cub squeezes through the narrow opening.
The rip can be fatal, as evidenced by the high death rate for first-time
mothers."

http://www.livescience.com/animals/060426_hyena_cubs.html

What did the ur-hyena do to deserve this? Piddled on God's rug?

<snip>

[Mark Evans]

Never seen anything born, have you? I have and in warm-blooded
creatures the female usually is not having fun. Hens pass eggs fairly
easily but they do not seem to enjoy it. And I have had domestic cats
come to me and yowl in pain during labor. I dare say they needed the
comfort of being near a trusted person to help get through delivery.

Mark Evans

[[M]adman]

You cat is not representative of all cats, or all animals for that fact

[unrestra...@hotmail.com]

It's true. I also remember reading about how the elephant got his
trunk. Y'see, the crocodile grabbed the baby elephant's nose and
pulled and pulled... Oh, wait, maybe that was Kipling instead.

But you must be right, because it would be impossible for this to have
been written *after folks noticed women typically had more problems
with birth than other animals.

Did you know that Paul Bunyon's ox, Babe, dug the Great Lakes for
watering holes? Or isn't that ancient enough? How about the Pillars of
Hercules (Heracles) - they predate Christianity, so their reputed
origin *must be reliable.

Kermit

[Mark Isaak]

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:28:25 -0500, [M]adman wrote:

> [Genesis 3:16 ...]

> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that human
> women have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.

Rudyard Kipling described how leopards got their spots. Leopards have
spots. Therefore Kipling was right. About everything.

Watch a hyena give birth. You are such a big fan of pain, I'm sure
you'll want to.

Besides, Genesis couldn't be more wrong about the flood bit. Or the
spread of languages. Or snake behavior. Or a dozen other things.
And you yourself argue consistently that the rest of the Bible is
entirely worthless.

--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) earthlink (dot) net
"It is certain, from experience, that the smallest grain of natural
honesty and benevolence has more effect on men's conduct, than the most
pompous views suggested by theological theories and systems." - D. Hume

[Ye Old One]

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:28:25 -0500, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:

>Genesis 3
>
>16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
>in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your
>husband, and he shall rule over you."
>
>We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that human women
>have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.
>
>About everything.

Ah! You have not helped deliver animals then.

Sad little Mudbrain.

And yes, I've helped deliver cats, dogs, sheep, pigs, many species of
rodents, one of my own children and twin calves. I've also observed
many others in both zoos and in the wild through the wonder of
television documentaries.

Humans may not have the easiest, but they are certainly not the most
difficult.

--
Bob.

[David Hare-Scott]

And the long line keeps right on hooking......

David

[Anlatt the Builder]

> So how do you explain Isaiah 44:26 - 45:2-

I start by saying: it has nothing to do with the original post,
Genesis, or evolution, so why bring it up?

Then I go and reread it and say: what's to explain?

[Anlatt the Builder]

> You cat is not representative of all cats, or all animals for that fact-

Provide a citation indicating that non-human animals do not suffer in
childbirth.

A number of people have already provided both personal observations
and veterinary descriptions that indicate you are WRONG. (Try hyenas,
for a start.) What evidence do you have to counter these facts?

This does not, as a matter of pure logic, prove that you're wrong
about EVERYTHING. But you usually are.

[[M]adman]

you always have had trouble understanding the difference between books like
paul bunyon and the bible.

and yes, there is substance to greek mytho. however, there are older, more
accurate documents the greek based their stories on.

hth

[wf3h]

On Apr 21, 5:50 pm, hersheyh <hershe...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Interesting. So your version of God is that He really is a
> misogynistic sadist. Something else in common with the Taliban. Oh,
> wait. You and the Taliban share the *same* God, differing primarily
> in the choice of Prophets. Happy mother's day! I know she suffered
> with you

agreed. i made the mistake of going to services on maundy thursday.
got to re-hear the story of exodus when god turned into a mass
murderer and slaughtered the first born of egypt. what a wicked
bastard the god of genesis really is...

[wf3h]

On Apr 21, 7:27 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:

> hth- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

the qur'an is ancient. why dont you believe that?

[Will in New Haven]

You move so easily from "no other animal" to "not all other animals,
not all cats."

But your mom is still a whore.

It's all about pimpin (M)adman's mom with
--
Will in New Haven

[Will in New Haven]

It's hardly ancient. Not by the standards of the rest of the documents
we have discussed. All of them are garbage but the Qur'an hasn't had
as much time to rot.

[Anlatt the Builder]

On Apr 21, 4:27 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:

Name them.

Then admit that you were simply INCORRECT when you said non-human
animals do not experience pain during childbirth. Some do.

[Anlatt the Builder]

*bump*

What's to explain, "Cyrus"?

> Then I go and reread it and say: what's to explain?- Hide quoted text -

[Paul J Gans]

[M]adman <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
>Genesis 3

>16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
>in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your
>husband, and he shall rule over you."

>We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that human women
>have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.

>About everything.

Good grief man. Not *all* women have extreme pain in
childbirth.

But what if you are misreading the text? What if it
means that if you let your desire be for your husband
alone and if you let him rule over you, THEN you will
have your pain in childbirth multiplied.

--
--- Paul J. Gans

[Paul J Gans]

Sapient Fridge <use_repl...@spamsights.org> wrote:
>In message <LJqHl.31185$i9.2...@bignews7.bellsouth.net>, "[M]adman"
><ad...@hotmail.et> writes
>>Genesis 3
>>
>>16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
>>in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your
>>husband, and he shall rule over you."

>The pain of childbirth is an observation, not a prediction.

>>We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that human women
>>have during child birth.

>How many other animals have a brain/body ratio anywhere near humans and
>a pelvis which has evolved to allow upright walking? If you said
>"none" then you would be correct.

>The problem humans have giving birth is a consequence of the tradeoff
>between brain size, a pelvis that will work well for walking upright and
>ease of giving birth. A rather nasty tradeoff.

Are you saying that we are NOT well-designed?

WOW!

>http://weber.ucsd.edu/~dkjordan/resources/clarifications/HumanBirth.html
>http://johnhawks.net/weblog/topics/bipedalism/bipedal_pelvis.html

>>Therefore Genesis is accurate.

>Non-sequitur

>>About everything.

>Unsupported assertion

He needs a jock strap for his mouth?

[Paul J Gans]

>http://www.livescience.com/animals/060426_hyena_cubs.html

Another example of Intelligent Design.

[Paul J Gans]

[M]adman <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
>Mark Evans wrote:
>> On Apr 21, 5:28 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
>>> Genesis 3
>>>
>>> 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in
>>> childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your
>>> desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."
>>>
>>> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that
>>> human women have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.
>>>
>>> About everything.
>>>
>>> --
>>> It is all about the truth with:
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>>> ?.?Adman?.?

>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> Never seen anything born, have you? I have and in warm-blooded
>> creatures the female usually is not having fun. Hens pass eggs fairly
>> easily but they do not seem to enjoy it. And I have had domestic cats
>> come to me and yowl in pain during labor. I dare say they needed the
>> comfort of being near a trusted person to help get through delivery.
>>
>> Mark Evans

>You cat is not representative of all cats, or all animals for that fact

You have got to try harder. Or you will go the way of Bill.

[Paul J Gans]

How do you explain X-Men #4?

[Paul J Gans]

That's not necessary.

[Boikat]

On Apr 21, 4:28 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> Genesis 3
>
> 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
> in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your
> husband, and he shall rule over you."
>
> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that human women
> have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.
>
> About everything.

Damn, you're stupid.

>
> --
> It is all about being stupid with:

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> ·.¸Adman¸.·
> ^^^^^^^^^^^

Boikat

[Chris]

On Apr 21, 5:28 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> Genesis 3
>
> 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
> in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your
> husband, and he shall rule over you."
>
> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that human women
> have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.
>
> About everything.
>

> --
> It is all about the truth with:

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> ·.¸Adman¸.·
> ^^^^^^^^^^^

Fascinating. Pain and death in childbirth is God's design.

Which of the following is, or is not, evidence for design- and
why:

1. Genetic similarities in human and chimp are mirrored in morphology.
In fact, we have the same bones, the same blood vessels, the same
nerves, the same muscles, the same blood types. Is this evidence for
common design?

2. Mammalian hearts and avian hearts are both double pumps that
service complementary circulatory systems, yet the developmental
pathways taken to arrive at these virtually identical structures
differ in some
significant respects. Is this evidence for common design?

3. Prolactin is found in a wide range of vertebrates. It is an ancient
hormone that serves significantly different functions in different
animals. In some birds it helps regulate molting; in salmon it has a
role in homing behavior; in mammals it regulates milk production. The
hormone has the same basic structure in all groups mentioned. Is this
evidence
for common design?

4. Wings of birds and wings of insects arise from totally different
developmental pathways yet serve the same function- flight. Is this
evidence of common design? Feathers in birds are also thermoregulatory
organs, and organs of communication. Is this evidence for common
design? Scales in butterflies serve one of the same functions as
feathers in birds- coloration. Is this evidence for common design?

5. Hair in mammals is derived from the protein keratin. It is produced
in follicles in the dermis. Hair serves several functions in mammals,
such as thermoregulation, communication, camouflage and sensory input.
"Hairs" in plants are not derived from keratin. They are often
epidermal outgrowths and might serve to reflect light, discourage
predators, absorb water, or even be sensory structures as in the Venus
Fly Trap. "Hairs" in arthropods are usually chitinous and serve a wide
variety of functions, but most often they seem to be antipredator
structures. They are often outgrowths of a single epidermal cell. Is
this evidence of common design?

(Don't forget the 'why' part!)

Chris

[Will in New Haven]

On Apr 21, 9:57 pm, Paul J Gans <g...@panix.com> wrote:

I believe in going the extra mile.

[[M]adman]

Your mom is so fat she needs her own ZIP Code

[[M]adman]

Chris wrote:
> On Apr 21, 5:28 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
>> Genesis 3
>>
>> 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in
>> childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your
>> desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."
>>
>> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that
>> human women have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.
>>
>> About everything.
>>
>> --
>> It is all about the truth with:
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> ·.¸Adman¸.·
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Fascinating. Pain and death in childbirth is God's design.
>
> Which of the following is, or is not, evidence for design- and
> why:
>
> 1. Genetic similarities in human and chimp are mirrored in morphology.
> In fact, we have the same bones, the same blood vessels, the same
> nerves, the same muscles, the same blood types. Is this evidence for
> common design?

Yep. The ape was the prototype

>
> 2. Mammalian hearts and avian hearts are both double pumps that
> service complementary circulatory systems, yet the developmental
> pathways taken to arrive at these virtually identical structures
> differ in some
> significant respects. Is this evidence for common design?

Of course. The DNA tells you THAT.

>
> 3. Prolactin is found in a wide range of vertebrates. It is an ancient
> hormone that serves significantly different functions in different
> animals. In some birds it helps regulate molting; in salmon it has a
> role in homing behavior; in mammals it regulates milk production. The
> hormone has the same basic structure in all groups mentioned. Is this
> evidence
> for common design?

Of course. Even human manufactures use common parts for various functions.

Ever hear of a transistor?

>
> 4. Wings of birds and wings of insects arise from totally different
> developmental pathways yet serve the same function- flight. Is this
> evidence of common design? Feathers in birds are also thermoregulatory
> organs, and organs of communication. Is this evidence for common
> design? Scales in butterflies serve one of the same functions as
> feathers in birds- coloration. Is this evidence for common design?

Sure. Same concept using a different building technique.

Ever hear of a Bridge?

>
> 5. Hair in mammals is derived from the protein keratin. It is produced
> in follicles in the dermis. Hair serves several functions in mammals,
> such as thermoregulation, communication, camouflage and sensory input.
> "Hairs" in plants are not derived from keratin. They are often
> epidermal outgrowths and might serve to reflect light, discourage
> predators, absorb water, or even be sensory structures as in the Venus
> Fly Trap. "Hairs" in arthropods are usually chitinous and serve a wide
> variety of functions, but most often they seem to be antipredator
> structures. They are often outgrowths of a single epidermal cell. Is
> this evidence of common design?

Sure. keratin is uses for many other things as well. You should read up on
keratin.

keratin is called a common part having many uses. Like a knob can open many
things.

Class dismissed.

>
> (Don't forget the 'why' part!)

Why? Because Adman is never wrong THATS why <S>

> Chris

[Desertphile]

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 16:28:25 -0500, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et>
wrote:

> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that human women
> have during child birth.

"We?" You and your lice?

Live on a cattle ranch like I do and you would know you're full of
shit.

Actually, you already know you're full of shit.

--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz

[Anlatt the Builder]

On Apr 21, 7:46 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> Chris wrote:
> > On Apr 21, 5:28 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> >> Genesis 3
>
> >> 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in
> >> childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your
> >> desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."
>
> >> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that
> >> human women have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.
>
> >> About everything.
>
> >> --
> >> It is all about the truth with:
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> ·.¸Adman¸.·
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> > Fascinating. Pain and death in childbirth is God's design.
>
> > Which of the following is, or is not, evidence for design- and
> > why:
>
> > 1. Genetic similarities in human and chimp are mirrored in morphology.
> > In fact, we have the same bones, the same blood vessels, the same
> > nerves, the same muscles, the same blood types. Is this evidence for
> > common design?
>
> Yep.  The ape was the prototype
>
>

In other words:

If there are any similarities between humans and other animals, that's
proof of a creator.

If there are any differences between humans and other animals, that's
proof of a creator.

Well, you've got that wrapped up. Given your airtight argument, why do
you need to LIE and say non-human animals do not experience pain
during childbirth? (Some do.)

You lie and you use invalid logic. That tells us everything about
creationists we need to know. Thanks!

[Desertphile]

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 15:18:33 -0700 (PDT), Mark Evans
<mev...@gcfn.org> wrote:

> On Apr 21, 5:28 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:

> > We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that human women
> > have during child birth.

> Never seen anything born, have you? I have and in warm-blooded
> creatures the female usually is not having fun. Hens pass eggs fairly
> easily but they do not seem to enjoy it. And I have had domestic cats
> come to me and yowl in pain during labor. I dare say they needed the
> comfort of being near a trusted person to help get through delivery.

We have heifers who cry from pain when they have trouble calving.
They shed huge tears while they struggle and while we help them by
pulling the calf out, or by reaching in and untangling the calf's
legs or whatever. [M]adasshole is just, as usual, full of shit.

[Desertphile]

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:27:55 -0500, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et>
wrote:

> unrestra...@hotmail.com wrote:

> > It's true. I also remember reading about how the elephant got his
> > trunk. Y'see, the crocodile grabbed the baby elephant's nose and
> > pulled and pulled... Oh, wait, maybe that was Kipling instead.
> >
> > But you must be right, because it would be impossible for this to have
> > been written *after folks noticed women typically had more problems
> > with birth than other animals.
> >
> > Did you know that Paul Bunyon's ox, Babe, dug the Great Lakes for
> > watering holes? Or isn't that ancient enough? How about the Pillars of
> > Hercules (Heracles) - they predate Christianity, so their reputed
> > origin *must be reliable.

> you always have had trouble understanding the difference between books like
> paul bunyon and the bible.

Okay, I give up: besides being far more moral and ethical and holy
than the Bible, what's different about books about Paul Bunyon and
the Bible?

[[M]adman]

One is reality, the other is from heavy pot usage

an it ain't Isaiah....

[[M]adman]

What makes you think i do not?

[Boikat]

> What makes you think i do not?-

But then again, you also believe The Flintstones is a documentary.

(And that trilobites are "Cambrain mammal"s.)

Boikat

[Wombat]

On 22 Apr, 03:47, Paul J Gans <g...@panix.com> wrote:
> [M]adman <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> >Genesis 3
> >16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
> >in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your
> >husband, and he shall rule over you."
> >We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that human women
> >have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.
> >About everything.
>
> Good grief man.  Not *all* women have extreme pain in
> childbirth.

Yes, some have an epidural.

Wombat

[Susan S]

In talk.origins I read this message from Will in New Haven
<bill....@taylorandfrancis.com>:

Nasty sexist garbage just makes *you* sound like a jerk.

Susan Silberstein

[Devils Advocaat]

On 22 Apr, 03:46, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:

[snipped for brevity and focus]

> Why? Because Adman is never wrong THATS why <S>

[snipped for brevity and focus]

I would like to nominate the above for Post of the Month.

[Ilas]

spintronic <spint...@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:eaee4c4f-8ba9-4018...@r36g2000vbr.googlegroups.com:

> On Apr 21, 10:28 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
>> Genesis 3
>>
>> 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in
>> childbeari
> ng;
>> in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for
>> your husband, and he shall rule over you."
>>
>> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that human
>> wom
> en
>> have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.
>>
>> About everything.
>>
>> --
>> It is all about the truth with:
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> ·.¸Adman¸.·
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>

> You'll have a sermon now about pelvic bones and big heads.
>
> But that's not the reason Y.O.O's mum howled in pain.
>
> Well it's not easy giving birth to "John Merrick" you know.
>
>
> But nice one Adman, I totally agree.

Thing is though, he's a troll (and, I have to say, a good one). He's coming
out with insane babbling drivel to get a reaction. You're agreeing with it.
What do you think that says?

[spintronic]

On 22 Apr, 00:12, Anlatt the Builder <tirh...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Apr 21, 3:01 pm, spintronic <spintro...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > So how do you explain Isaiah 44:26 - 45:2-
>
> I start by saying: it has nothing to do with the original post,

But everything to do with your comment;

> > >That's because it was written AFTER THE FACT

> Then I go and reread it and say: what's to explain?

Not very bright are you?

Isaiah was penned 8th century B.C.

Cyrus sacked babylon 200 years later.

You do the math.

[spintronic]

On 22 Apr, 02:59, Chris <chris.linthomp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 21, 5:28 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:

Oh, this old bone again.

1,2,3,4,5?????

Yes, now do I get my chocolates?

> Which of the following is, or is not, evidence for design- and
> why:
>
> 1. Genetic similarities in human and chimp are mirrored in morphology.
> In fact, we have the same bones, the same blood vessels, the same
> nerves, the same muscles, the same blood types. Is this evidence for
> common design?

Yes,

This *designer* was "VW Group".
MK I
http://www.volksdivision.co.uk/blog_content/assets/images/golf_gti_mk1_early.jpg
MK II
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3091/2704289181_6160fb87bc.jpg

Wow, look how *similar* yet slightly *different* they are.

> 2. Mammalian hearts and avian hearts are both double pumps that
> service complementary circulatory systems, yet the developmental
> pathways taken to arrive at these virtually identical structures
> differ in some
> significant respects. Is this evidence for common design?

Wow a design, that ranges *different* models.

Who would have thought?

Look yet *another* designer, this one is "Bosch".

http://www.boschautoparts.com/NR/rdonlyres/EBAC1CCA-7339-4621-90AE-21F385C81FD5/0/Injector540.jpg
http://www.dieselsurplustrade.com/shop/images/BOS0433271.JPG

> 3. Prolactin is found in a wide range of vertebrates. It is an ancient
> hormone that serves significantly different functions in different
> animals. In some birds it helps regulate molting; in salmon it has a
> role in homing behavior; in mammals it regulates milk production. The
> hormone has the same basic structure in all groups mentioned. Is this
> evidence
> for common design?

Wow,

Here is a design.

It serves millions of *different* functions for millions of
*different* jobs.

http://www.artestuff.com/images/screw-standard.jpg

> 4. Wings of birds and wings of insects arise from totally different
> developmental pathways yet serve the same function- flight. Is this
> evidence of common design? Feathers in birds are also thermoregulatory
> organs, and organs of communication. Is this evidence for common
> design? Scales in butterflies serve one of the same functions as
> feathers in birds- coloration. Is this evidence for common design?

Wow,

Here is 2 *designs* from one *designer*. "Schweizer Aircraft".

http://www.4staraviation.com/images/glider.jpg
http://www.tech-tool.com/images/images_schweizer/schweizer.jpg

> 5. Hair in mammals is derived from the protein keratin. It is produced
> in follicles in the dermis. Hair serves several functions in mammals,
> such as thermoregulation, communication, camouflage and sensory input.
> "Hairs" in plants are not derived from keratin. They are often
> epidermal outgrowths and might serve to reflect light, discourage
> predators, absorb water, or even be sensory structures as in the Venus
> Fly Trap. "Hairs" in arthropods are usually chitinous and serve a wide
> variety of functions, but most often they seem to be antipredator
> structures. They are often outgrowths of a single epidermal cell. Is
> this evidence of common design?

Wow, here are 2 types of *design*.

http://vitanetonline.com/images/products/FU0006.jpg
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_172/1186174176IdpuXA.jpg

I guess the last laughs on you.

> (Don't forget the 'why' part!)

Aww do I have to, it's pretty "self explanatory".

[Nashton]

Ilas wrote:

>
> Thing is though, he's a troll (and, I have to say, a good one). He's coming
> out with insane babbling drivel to get a reaction. You're agreeing with it.
> What do you think that says?
>

Are you in high school?

[Erwin Moller]

[M]adman schreef:

> Genesis 3
>
> 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
> in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your
> husband, and he shall rule over you."
>
> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that human women
> have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.
>
> About everything.
>
>

Madman,

I have to admit: your stupidity is something that MUST have been designed.
I cannot imagine a natural process that leads to you.

Hmm, shall I become a relious guy then?
Naah.

Erwin Moller

--
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to
make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the
other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious
deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult."
-- C.A.R. Hoare

[wf3h]

On Apr 21, 11:39 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:

> wf3h wrote:
>
> > the qur'an is ancient. why dont you believe that?
>

> What makes you think i do not?-

because it says your beliefs about the bible are corrupt.

but you're a creationist. which means you specialize in believing
contradictory insupportable ideas.

[wf3h]

On Apr 21, 10:46 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> Chris wrote:
> > On Apr 21, 5:28 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> >
>
> >
>
> > 3. Prolactin is found in a wide range of vertebrates. It is an ancient
> > hormone that serves significantly different functions in different
> > animals. In some birds it helps regulate molting; in salmon it has a
> > role in homing behavior; in mammals it regulates milk production. The
> > hormone has the same basic structure in all groups mentioned. Is this
> > evidence
> > for common design?
>
> Of course. Even human manufactures use common parts for various functions.

of course, god's supposed to be a better designer than we are so he
could do whatever he wants.

another flaw in creationism....

>
> Ever hear of a transistor?
>
>
>
> > 4. Wings of birds and wings of insects arise from totally different
> > developmental pathways yet serve the same function- flight. Is this
> > evidence of common design? Feathers in birds are also thermoregulatory
> > organs, and organs of communication. Is this evidence for common
> > design? Scales in butterflies serve one of the same functions as
> > feathers in birds- coloration. Is this evidence for common design?
>
> Sure. Same concept using a different building technique.

we have building techniques as the creationist admits. but he says
god doesnt use building techniques....but he's a designer....

ANOTHER contradiction...

>
> Why? Because Adman is never wrong THATS why <S>
>
>

adman is worse than wrong...he's USELESS....just like creationism

[[M]adman]

Probably Jr.High like some of the others

[[M]adman]

Desertphile wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 15:18:33 -0700 (PDT), Mark Evans
> <mev...@gcfn.org> wrote:
>
>> On Apr 21, 5:28 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
>
>>> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that
>>> human women have during child birth.
>
>> Never seen anything born, have you? I have and in warm-blooded
>> creatures the female usually is not having fun. Hens pass eggs
>> fairly easily but they do not seem to enjoy it. And I have had
>> domestic cats come to me and yowl in pain during labor. I dare say
>> they needed the comfort of being near a trusted person to help get
>> through delivery.
>
> We have heifers who cry from pain when they have trouble calving.
> They shed huge tears while they struggle and while we help them by
> pulling the calf out, or by reaching in and untangling the calf's
> legs or whatever. [M]adasshole is just, as usual, full of shit.

I can always tell when i have struck a nerve with you k00ks. Your responses
become nasty.

Here is a clue: Animals do NOT feel "the same type of pain" is what i said.
But look at the replys? Everyone seems to think i have said "feels NO pain"

Please stop drinking and driving your computer.

Or learn to read for comprehension.

The fact is human women feel pain because of original sin

have a nice day.

[[M]adman]

Because that is not what i said you k00k. Go back and read my first post.

I said: "the same type of pain"

But as usual, you freaks cannot read and then understand what you read.

No wonder you fall hook line and sinker for the theory of evolution.

[Ilas]

Nashton <na...@na.ca> wrote in news:gsmq85$geh$2...@aioe.org:

I just find it amusing. Madman posts the most utterly ludicrous thing he
can think of or find, a few of the rational section of humanity try to
argue with him - and they may as well argue with a fencepost - whilst the
rationally challenged (and I'd count you as a proud member of that group)
stand on the sidelines shouting "yayyy!! Way to go Madman! You sure showed
those evilutionists". Either way, he gets his reaction. Like I say, he's
good.

[Devils Advocaat]

I suppose you believe that disease is a punishment for sin too?
>
> have a nice day.- Hide quoted text -

[Chris]

On Apr 22, 5:22 am, spintronic <spintro...@hotmail.com> wrote:

You again?

If I had wanted your brand of marsh gas, I would have poked your end
of the swamp. Go away until I feel like trolling you some more.

Chris

[Chris]

On Apr 21, 10:46 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> Chris wrote:
> > On Apr 21, 5:28 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> >> Genesis 3
>
> >> 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in
> >> childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your
> >> desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."
>
> >> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that
> >> human women have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.
>
> >> About everything.
>
> >> --
> >> It is all about the truth with:
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> ·.¸Adman¸.·
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> > Fascinating. Pain and death in childbirth is God's design.
>
> > Which of the following is, or is not, evidence for design- and
> > why:
>
> > 1. Genetic similarities in human and chimp are mirrored in morphology.
> > In fact, we have the same bones, the same blood vessels, the same
> > nerves, the same muscles, the same blood types. Is this evidence for
> > common design?
>
> Yep. The ape was the prototype

Unsupported assertion.

> > 2. Mammalian hearts and avian hearts are both double pumps that
> > service complementary circulatory systems, yet the developmental
> > pathways taken to arrive at these virtually identical structures
> > differ in some
> > significant respects. Is this evidence for common design?
>
> Of course. The DNA tells you THAT.

The DNA that controls development of the mammalian and avian hearts is
different. So far we have identical DNA giving rise to identical
structures as evidence for common design (the chimp and human) and now
we have different DNA giving rise to similar structures as evidence
for common design.

> > 3. Prolactin is found in a wide range of vertebrates. It is an ancient
> > hormone that serves significantly different functions in different
> > animals. In some birds it helps regulate molting; in salmon it has a
> > role in homing behavior; in mammals it regulates milk production. The
> > hormone has the same basic structure in all groups mentioned. Is this
> > evidence
> > for common design?
>
> Of course. Even human manufactures use common parts for various functions.
>
> Ever hear of a transistor?

Now we add similar DNA resulting in related structures having very
different functions as evidence of design.

> > 4. Wings of birds and wings of insects arise from totally different
> > developmental pathways yet serve the same function- flight. Is this
> > evidence of common design? Feathers in birds are also thermoregulatory
> > organs, and organs of communication. Is this evidence for common
> > design? Scales in butterflies serve one of the same functions as
> > feathers in birds- coloration. Is this evidence for common design?
>
> Sure. Same concept using a different building technique.
>
> Ever hear of a Bridge?

Again we see different DNA giving rise to different structures that
perform similar tasks (but in different ways) as evidence for design.

> > 5. Hair in mammals is derived from the protein keratin. It is produced
> > in follicles in the dermis. Hair serves several functions in mammals,
> > such as thermoregulation, communication, camouflage and sensory input.
> > "Hairs" in plants are not derived from keratin. They are often
> > epidermal outgrowths and might serve to reflect light, discourage
> > predators, absorb water, or even be sensory structures as in the Venus
> > Fly Trap. "Hairs" in arthropods are usually chitinous and serve a wide
> > variety of functions, but most often they seem to be antipredator
> > structures. They are often outgrowths of a single epidermal cell. Is
> > this evidence of common design?
>
> Sure. keratin is uses for many other things as well. You should read up on
> keratin.
>
> keratin is called a common part having many uses. Like a knob can open many
> things.
>
> Class dismissed.

Now we see that different DNA giving rise to totally different
structures that perform different functions as evidence for design.

In other words, everything is evidence of design; nothing alive or
once alive or part of a living system on the planet is not evidence of
design.

How can you tell? To what are you comparing all these things? You
explanation is not an explanation. It's an invocation of magic.

I would also mention that when I earlier said you believed all these
things, you called me a liar. Your abject and overdue apology is noted
and accepted.

Chris

[[M]adman]

Chris, you really should raise your level of thinking on this. Or at least
try. The DNA itself is proof of common design.

[Damaeus]

Reading from news:talk.origins,
hersheyh <hers...@yahoo.com> posted:

> Interesting. So your version of God is that He really is a
> misogynistic sadist.

No, he's just limited by the laws of physics.

Damaeus

[Damaeus]

Reading from news:talk.origins,
Anlatt the Builder <tir...@aol.com> posted:

> Genesis is certainly accurate that human women experience pain during
> childbirth. That's because it was written AFTER THE FACT - that is,
> the people who wrote it already knew that women experienced pain
> during childbirth, so they put that obvious, well-known fact in the
> book. This proves absolutely nothing.

It was formed in answer to "why does it hurt so much to give birth?" So
they came up with a story. But why do we ask that question? Cows seem to
poop their calves out in leisure, seemingly without much of a moo at all.

> How sure are you that no other animals suffer pain during childbirth?
> Any citations to back that up?

I havent personally seen very many animals giving birth, except on film.
Do they squirm, scream, holler and act like they're pregoconstipated?

Damaeus

[richardal...@googlemail.com]

On Apr 22, 2:10 pm, Damaeus <no-m...@damaeus.yahoo.invalid> wrote:
> Reading from news:talk.origins,

> Anlatt the Builder <tirh...@aol.com> posted:

Do some research. Find out how spotted hyenas give birth. Then tell us
that humans have it bad.

RF

[Ye Old One]

Both are fiction. One is quite good

and it ain't Isaiah....

--
Bob.

[Chris]

Fine. Now explain how and why.

Chris

[unrestra...@hotmail.com]

On Apr 21, 4:27 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> unrestrained_h...@hotmail.com wrote:

> > On Apr 21, 2:28 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> >> Genesis 3
>
> >> 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in
> >> childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your
> >> desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."
>
> >> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that
> >> human women have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.
>
> >> About everything.
>
> >> --
> >> It is all about the truth with:
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> ·.¸Adman¸.·
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>

> > It's true. I also remember reading about how the elephant got his
> > trunk. Y'see, the crocodile grabbed the baby elephant's nose and
> > pulled and pulled... Oh, wait, maybe that was Kipling instead.
>
> > But you must be right, because it would be impossible for this to have
> > been written *after folks noticed women typically had more problems
> > with birth than other animals.
>
> > Did you know that Paul Bunyon's ox, Babe, dug the Great Lakes for
> > watering holes? Or isn't that ancient enough? How about the Pillars of
> > Hercules (Heracles) - they predate Christianity, so their reputed
> > origin *must be reliable.
>
> > Kermit
>
> you always have had trouble understanding the difference between books like
> paul bunyon and the bible.
>
> and yes, there is substance to greek mytho. however, there are older, more
> accurate documents the greek based their stories on.

Ah, yes. Written in the days when people knew what was possible and
what wasn't, when those who wrote down texts always spoke literal
truth, except when they didn't.

> hth

Kermit

[Ye Old One]

Yes, he is at least that far ahead of you NashtOff - maybe a lot
further.

But there again, most people are.

--
Bob.

[TomS]

"On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 08:08:13 -0500, in article
<bj5uu4t4g58em5srs...@4ax.com>, Damaeus stated..."

Limited by your imagination.

--
---Tom S.
"As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand."
attributed to Josh Billings

[Paul J Gans]

Will in New Haven <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>On Apr 21, 9:57 pm, Paul J Gans <g...@panix.com> wrote:
>> Will in New Haven <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Apr 21, 6:36 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
>> >> Mark Evans wrote:

>> >> > On Apr 21, 5:28 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
>> >> >> Genesis 3
>>
>> >> >> 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in
>> >> >> childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your
>> >> >> desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."
>>
>> >> >> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that
>> >> >> human women have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.
>>
>> >> >> About everything.
>>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> It is all about the truth with:
>> >> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >> >> ·.¸Adman¸.·
>> >> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>>

>> >> > Never seen anything born, have you?  I have and in warm-blooded
>> >> > creatures the female usually is not having fun.  Hens pass eggs fairly
>> >> > easily but they do not seem to enjoy it.  And I have had domestic cats
>> >> > come to me and yowl in pain during labor.  I dare say they needed the
>> >> > comfort of being near a trusted person to help get through delivery.
>>

>> >> > Mark Evans
>>
>> >> You cat is not representative of all cats, or all animals for that fact
>> >You move so easily from "no other animal" to "not all other animals,
>> >not all cats."
>> >But your mom is still a whore.
>> >It's all about pimpin (M)adman's mom with
>>

>> That's not necessary.

>I believe in going the extra mile.

Sinking to their level does not help the side of rationality.

Insult him all you want. Just leave his mother out of it.

--
--- Paul J. Gans

[Paul J Gans]

[M]adman <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:

>Chris wrote:
>> On Apr 21, 5:28 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
>>> Genesis 3
>>>
>>> 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in
>>> childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your
>>> desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."
>>>
>>> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that
>>> human women have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.
>>>
>>> About everything.
>>>
>>> --
>>> It is all about the truth with:
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>>> ?.?Adman?.?

>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>> Fascinating. Pain and death in childbirth is God's design.
>>
>> Which of the following is, or is not, evidence for design- and
>> why:
>>
>> 1. Genetic similarities in human and chimp are mirrored in morphology.
>> In fact, we have the same bones, the same blood vessels, the same
>> nerves, the same muscles, the same blood types. Is this evidence for
>> common design?

>Yep. The ape was the prototype

I thought god knew everything. Why would he need
a prototype?

Perhaps he *doesn't* know everything?

Your god seems to be somewhat strange. Gods command people
by either being loving or being feared. Sadistic gods are
rarely loved. If you are right about god making childbirth
painful for all women simply because god was peeved at Eve
(did he not perceive what she would do ahead of time?) makes
him a sadist.

If that turns you on, so be it.

I could not worship out of fear. If god feeds on my pain,
there's little I can do about it except to despise him.
That bit of freedom evidently still exists since I've not
been struck dead recently.

[Paul J Gans]

Wombat <tri...@multiweb.nl> wrote:

>On 22 Apr, 03:47, Paul J Gans <g...@panix.com> wrote:
>> [M]adman <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
>> >Genesis 3
>> >16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing;
>> >in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your
>> >husband, and he shall rule over you."
>> >We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that human women
>> >have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.
>> >About everything.
>>

>> Good grief man.  Not *all* women have extreme pain in
>> childbirth.

>Yes, some have an epidural.

Sure. But I meant something else. Some women bear children
with less pain than others. It's a complex business, like
most everything else in biology.

[Paul J Gans]

[M]adman <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
>Desertphile wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 15:18:33 -0700 (PDT), Mark Evans
>> <mev...@gcfn.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Apr 21, 5:28 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
>>
>>>> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that
>>>> human women have during child birth.
>>
>>> Never seen anything born, have you? I have and in warm-blooded
>>> creatures the female usually is not having fun. Hens pass eggs
>>> fairly easily but they do not seem to enjoy it. And I have had
>>> domestic cats come to me and yowl in pain during labor. I dare say
>>> they needed the comfort of being near a trusted person to help get
>>> through delivery.
>>
>> We have heifers who cry from pain when they have trouble calving.
>> They shed huge tears while they struggle and while we help them by
>> pulling the calf out, or by reaching in and untangling the calf's
>> legs or whatever. [M]adasshole is just, as usual, full of shit.

>I can always tell when i have struck a nerve with you k00ks. Your responses
>become nasty.

>Here is a clue: Animals do NOT feel "the same type of pain" is what i said.
>But look at the replys? Everyone seems to think i have said "feels NO pain"

How do you know that the pain is different? Ever been a
heifer? For that matter, have you ever been a woman?

And what has any of the stuff below got to do with your
argument?

>Please stop drinking and driving your computer.

>Or learn to read for comprehension.

>The fact is human women feel pain because of original sin

>have a nice day.

[spintronic]

Aww. Hidden mine, blew you out the water at 5:22?

Why you were so enthusiastic before.

I get that a lot, it's the quiet, let me crawl off stage response,
to me knockin the crap out of a bigmouth retard.

Y.O.O gets it all the time.

I imagine, he looks as beaten as Sylvester stallion in all the
Rocky series combined.

You should see the loose threads he's tangled up with trying
to tell the world that a "disk is a circle",

and a "computer & the language" are actually "the language" itself.

[spintronic]

On Apr 22, 5:18 pm, Paul J Gans <g...@panix.com> wrote:
> [M]adman <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:

> I thought god knew everything.  Why would he need
> a prototype?

God does know everything.

He knows that you need small steps to comprehend.

[Paul J Gans]

Read some of the other posts in this thread for information
on that.

[Paul J Gans]

Well then. He's just like the rest of us in that.

[[M]adman]

We were created in his image, why would he NOT be like us or us like him?

[[M]adman]

They do not have the same type of pain humans have

[Chris]

Come on spinuloid. You can do better than that. Toss in a few gay
references. Or is that still a sore point?

Chris

[[M]adman]

You and PaulG make such an issue of when and when not a metaphor is being
used.

Did not take ANY English Lit in your life at all?

Shakespeare is loaded with switching back and forth between real
descriptions and metaphors in his works as well as thousands of other
authors.

Do not blame ME if you are an illiterate and simply lack the perception to
tell the difference when an author is and is not using metaphor.

Too bad for you.

[Will in New Haven]

On Apr 22, 2:08 am, Susan S <otoeremovet...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> In talk.origins  I read this message from Will in New Haven
> <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com>:
>
>
>
> >On Apr 21, 6:36 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> >> Mark Evans wrote:

> >> > On Apr 21, 5:28 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> >> >> Genesis 3
>
> >> >> 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in
> >> >> childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your
> >> >> desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."
>
> >> >> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that
> >> >> human women have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.
>
> >> >> About everything.
>
> >> >> --
> >> >> It is all about the truth with:
> >> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> >> ·.¸Adman¸.·
> >> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>

> >> > Never seen anything born, have you?  I have and in warm-blooded
> >> > creatures the female usually is not having fun.  Hens pass eggs fairly
> >> > easily but they do not seem to enjoy it.  And I have had domestic cats
> >> > come to me and yowl in pain during labor.  I dare say they needed the
> >> > comfort of being near a trusted person to help get through delivery.
>

> >> > Mark Evans
>
> >> You cat is not representative of all cats, or all animals for that fact
>
> >You move so easily from "no other animal" to "not all other animals,
> >not all cats."
>
> >But your mom is still a whore.
>
> >It's all about pimpin (M)adman's mom with
>

> Nasty sexist garbage just makes *you* sound like a jerk.
>
> Susan Silberstein

Nothing sexist about it. Nasty, yes. I'm not a nice person. Maybe I'm
a jerk. But I'm NOT (M)Adman and that makes me happy. I would probably
be less annoyed by him if I thought he was sincere. However, he is
either one of those people who knows damn well that evolution happened
but he thinks hoi poloi are better off not knowing or he's simply
doing this for fun.

Was I supposed to be trying to please or impress you? Nothing personal
but you aren't, to quote the songwriter, always on my mind. If I'd
known there were civilized people watching.

--
Will in New Haven

[[M]adman]

Damn dude. We have been through this.

10,000 times

[[M]adman]

He is also smart enough to test his creations.

[wf3h]

dontcha just love it when a creationist lectures others on the
inability to differentiate metaphors from literalist texts...

kind of like a pimp complaining about the breakdown of traditional
morality...

[Will in New Haven]

It is because the insult is so inherently _meaningless_ that I use it.
I have given up engaging him in conversation, yet I want him to
understand that my contempt for him and still growing. If his mother,
and I hope she is alive and well, ever heard about this I would be
very sorry and apologize.

I will think of something else to say.

[Will in New Haven]

On Apr 22, 1:03 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:

Your assertion is not proof. It isn't even an argument. It is just
you, with no credentials in ANY field, saying so. I don't know if what
you are claiming is even subject to proof but we have no obligation to
accept it just because you say so.

At least one person here raises livestock, I have seen his flock and
his dogs, etc, and he disagrees with you. He might be wrong but the
smart money is on his opinion. I have never deliberately caused pain
to a dog or a cat but I have trained dogs and owned cats and dogs for
many years. I think you are wrong also.

[[M]adman]

Ilas wrote:
> Nashton <na...@na.ca> wrote in news:gsmq85$geh$2...@aioe.org:

>
>> Ilas wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Thing is though, he's a troll (and, I have to say, a good one). He's
>>> coming out with insane babbling drivel to get a reaction. You're
>>> agreeing with it. What do you think that says?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Are you in high school?
>

> I just find it amusing. Madman posts the most utterly ludicrous thing
> he can think of or find, a few of the rational section of humanity
> try to argue with him - and they may as well argue with a fencepost -
> whilst the rationally challenged (and I'd count you as a proud member
> of that group) stand on the sidelines shouting "yayyy!! Way to go
> Madman! You sure showed those evilutionists". Either way, he gets his
> reaction. Like I say, he's good.

And here you are. Running around post to post saying the same thing about
that bad ole` adman. Just as one would expect a troll to do.

You could just as easily give an opinion on the actual topic. For a change.

[Damaeus]

Reading from news:talk.origins,
TomS <TomS_...@newsguy.com> posted:

> "On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 08:08:13 -0500, in article
> <bj5uu4t4g58em5srs...@4ax.com>, Damaeus stated..."
> >
> >Reading from news:talk.origins,
> >hersheyh <hers...@yahoo.com> posted:
> >
> >> Interesting. So your version of God is that He really is a
> >> misogynistic sadist.
> >
> >No, he's just limited by the laws of physics.
>

> Limited by your imagination.

Yeah. Since the speed of light is a consideration, the universe could
have finished expanding about six thousand years ago and it's taking us
this long to figure out that we have been gods, unwittingly pretending to
be mortal and dying from it. Sort of funny when you think about it.

Damaeus

[Andre Lieven]

On Apr 22, 12:15 pm, Damaeus <no-...@dumbest.cluck.ever> moronised:
> Reading from news:talk.origins,
> TomS <TomS_mem...@newsguy.com> posted:

>
> > "On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 08:08:13 -0500, in article

> > <bj5uu4t4g58em5srsraetckskp8d5vs...@4ax.com>, Damaeus stated..."
>
> > >Reading from news:talk.origins,
> > >hersheyh <hershe...@yahoo.com> posted:

>
> > >> Interesting.  So your version of God is that He really is a
> > >> misogynistic sadist.
>
> > >No, he's just limited by the laws of physics.
>
> > Limited by your imagination.
>
> Yeah.  Since the speed of light is a consideration, the universe could
> have finished expanding about six thousand years ago and it's taking us
> this long to figure out that we have been gods, unwittingly pretending to

> be mortal and dying from it.  Sort of *retarded* when you think about it.

I corrected your IDiotic and insane claim. You're welcome.

Andre

[Wombat]

I was joking. I have been watching Coupling, a very funny BBC comedy
recently where Susan, who is about to give birth, screams at her
boyfriend "Get me a f****** epidural".

Wombat

[Chris]

Yes, we have. You always stop exactly here- no explanations ever
given.

You "explained" that the phenomena I mentioned were evidence for
design by mere assertion- no data presented, no methods described. The
best you could do was an analogy, and often a faulty one.

Now you claim DNA itself is proof of common design. Great- tell us
why.

Just pointing out it's ubiquitous is _not_ evidence, you know. That
rationale is consistent with too many other interpretations, the most
important one being common descent. Show us dependable evidence for
design that's not consistent with other explanations.

Remember that you have to account for identical DNA producing
identical results used for similar purposes; similar DNA producing
similar results used for different purposes; different DNA producing
similar results used for similar purposes; and different DNA being
used to produce different results used for different purposes.
According to you, it's ALL evidence of design. Your model needs to
include it all, and at least make a start at explaining it all.

Have at it.

Chris

[Chris]

On Apr 22, 1:03 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:

You're wrong. The vast majority of mammals have exactly the same
nocioception system. Same nocioceptors, same neurotransmitters. You
don't know anything.

Chris

[spintronic]

> Chris- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I get that a lot as well.

You lose an argument and think changing the subject
makes you look smart.

[Devils Advocaat]

On 22 Apr, 18:02, "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> Paul J Gans wrote:

> > Damaeus <no-m...@damaeus.yahoo.invalid> wrote:
> >> Reading from news:talk.origins,

> >> hersheyh <hershe...@yahoo.com> posted:

>
> >>> Interesting.  So your version of God is that He really is a
> >>> misogynistic sadist.
>
> >> No, he's just limited by the laws of physics.
>
> > Well then.  He's just like the rest of us in that.
>
> We were created in his image, why would he NOT be like us or us like him?

Are you saying that God has a physical form then?

[spintronic]

Weird. He went through it once with me, and shut the fuck up.

[Damaeus]

Reading from news:talk.origins,
Paul J Gans <ga...@panix.com> posted:

Yeah. Could have a bit of an edge when it comes to perception, but
human enough. And being a god who wants to play forever in the
universal playground, he certainly doesn't want to destroy us.

Damaeus

[Damaeus]

Reading from news:talk.origins,
Andre Lieven <andre...@yahoo.ca> posted:

As long as you're truthfully making it clear that you're blatantly
changing the words in my posts to alter their meaning, that's fine. I'll
just refer everyone to this post as needed as my proof that you do this.

It's proof that you were thinking about my ideas incorrectly, too, a
thinking that has apparently extrapolated to direct manipulation of my
words, for whatever reason.

> You're welcome.

To do what?

Damaeus

[Flywatch]

"[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:
> Mark Evans wrote:

> > "[M]adman" <ad...@hotmail.et> wrote:

> >> Genesis 3

> >> 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in
> >> childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your
> >> desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."

> >> We see no evidence of animals having the same type of pain that
> >> human women have during child birth. Therefore Genesis is accurate.

> >> About everything.

> > Never seen anything born, have you? I have and in warm-blooded

> > creatures the female usually is not having fun. Hens pass eggs fairly
> > easily but they do not seem to enjoy it. And I have had domestic cats
> > come to me and yowl in pain during labor. I dare say they needed the
> > comfort of being near a trusted person to help get through delivery.

> You cat is not representative of all cats, or all animals for that fact

Why don't you react to the posts about hyena's?
Was it exposing your blatant ignorance a little too much?

[Ye Old One]

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 02:01:13 -0700 (PDT), spintronic
<spint...@hotmail.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:

>On 22 Apr, 00:12, Anlatt the Builder <tirh...@aol.com> wrote:
>> On Apr 21, 3:01 pm, spintronic <spintro...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> > So how do you explain Isaiah 44:26 - 45:2-
>>
>> I start by saying: it has nothing to do with the original post,
>
>
>But everything to do with your comment;

>
>> > >That's because it was written AFTER THE FACT
>
>

>> Then I go and reread it and say: what's to explain?
>
>Not very bright are you?
>
>Isaiah was penned 8th century B.C.

Probably not.
>
>Cyrus sacked babylon 200 years later.
>
>You do the math.

Well we will not reply on you to do the maths - we know you are not
good with numbers.

--
Bob.

[Ye Old One]

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 08:08:13 -0500, Damaeus
<no-...@damaeus.yahoo.invalid> enriched this group when s/he wrote:

>Reading from news:talk.origins,
>hersheyh <hers...@yahoo.com> posted:

>
>> Interesting. So your version of God is that He really is a
>> misogynistic sadist.
>
>No, he's just limited by the laws of physics.
>

>Damaeus

Oh? So you are not going to be limited by anything, but your god is?

Daft or what?

--
Bob.

[Ye Old One]

On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 08:10:54 -0500, Damaeus

<no-...@damaeus.yahoo.invalid> enriched this group when s/he wrote:

>Reading from news:talk.origins,
>Anlatt the Builder <tir...@aol.com> posted:

>
>> Genesis is certainly accurate that human women experience pain during
>> childbirth. That's because it was written AFTER THE FACT - that is,
>> the people who wrote it already knew that women experienced pain
>> during childbirth, so they put that obvious, well-known fact in the
>> book. This proves absolutely nothing.
>
>It was formed in answer to "why does it hurt so much to give birth?" So
>they came up with a story. But why do we ask that question? Cows seem to
>poop their calves out in leisure, seemingly without much of a moo at all.

Hardly.

>
>> How sure are you that no other animals suffer pain during childbirth?
>> Any citations to back that up?
>
>I havent personally seen very many animals giving birth, except on film.
>Do they squirm, scream, holler and act like they're pregoconstipated?
>
>Damaeus

--
Bob.