Still at it?
jonasand...@gmail.com
on!!!
How the bloody hell can a normal modern human believe in
overdramatized folklore from flippin 20 centuries ago??? Doesn't that
make an alarm go off anywhere? Why believe in God? Where is this so
called 'god' then? What's the point in believing in anything spiritual
anyway? Its making life unnecessarily complex! Why can't we just sit
back, shut up, and accept that life is just the way it presents itself
and that you have the freedom to make it as fun and ordered as you
like? Life is so much more fun and easy that way.
This is just an age-old power struggle, back from the time when we
were apes. Discussions between creationists and 'evolutionists' is a
matter of chucking around some carefully picked words in the form of
subtle insults and completely avoiding the subject. The real effort is
stimulated by the desire for power. Most creationists on this forum do
not love their neighbor as themselves, but they condemn, very
selectively. The whole biblical message, if there is one, is utterly
void here. There is no love or understanding, just monkey behavior,
powergrabbing, insulting, fighting, being clever and outsmarting the
other. No-one really gets the point, scriptures, whether religious or
scientific, will never help you attain the 'kingdom of heaven', if
anything, they drive us right away from it.
'God' gave you flippin eyes to see reality, whether it is a crying
baby or fossils in a rock, its hard reality, and still there's a
discussion on evolution? No, you cannot brush off fossils with some
lame excuse concerning 'satan', for if satan did do it, then we are
worshipping the wrong diety. Think about it, satan masterfully creates
billions of years of history, things are mellow and relatively
harmonious. Now along comes God, or YHWH, and within 10,000 years, a
geological split-second, the whole ecology and atmosphere is
unstable!!! And the creator of this we worship??? Even worse, along
comes 'God' right, he creates 'everything': adam, eve, even the
flippin snake in the tree (if not who then, is god's power
challengable? then he's not exactly omnipotent is he?). right, so
here's this snake, created by God. 'hello eve, here's an apple'. The
creature, made according to the image of God himself, does not
hesitate and takes a nice big munch out of this apple. And not God
punishes his creation? What a sloppy God. He's the one who messed up,
how can he punish his creation for being able to be tempted. Who
instilled the temptation if God created 'everything'??? The whole
story makes no sense at all and you are a completely deluded fool if
you believe in that fairytale.
What stupidity!
Fools!!
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by
jonasand...@gmail.com:
>Unbelieveable, I can't believe that this discussion is still going
>on!!!
Why? Did you expect either side to persuade the other by
now? Good luck on that...
But the purpose of t.o - keeping the whackos out of the
serious science groups - seems at least partially effective.
--
Bob C.
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless
Ferrous Patella
0ad7b5...@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
> How the bloody hell can a normal modern human believe in
> overdramatized folklore from flippin 20 centuries ago???
Well, there's your problem right there. Most god stories are more like 50
60 centuries old, and that's just the written down version. You want to get
something with a little maturity to it.
Frank J
> Unbelieveable, I can't believe that this discussion is still going
> on!!!
>
> How the bloody hell can a normal modern human believe in
> overdramatized folklore from flippin 20 centuries ago???
Better yet, how can different groups believe several mutually
contradictory "literal" interpretations of it without wondering that,
maybe, just maybe, they're all wrong. Especially since most major
religions agree that they are!
> Doesn't that
> make an alarm go off anywhere? Why believe in God?
Well that's a different subject altogether. You might get a better
sample of answers on a religion newsgroup.
That's only the creator that YECs worship. Ask them.
> Even worse, along
> comes 'God' right, he creates 'everything': adam, eve, even the
> flippin snake in the tree (if not who then, is god's power
> challengable? then he's not exactly omnipotent is he?). right, so
> here's this snake, created by God. 'hello eve, here's an apple'. The
> creature, made according to the image of God himself, does not
> hesitate and takes a nice big munch out of this apple. And not God
> punishes his creation? What a sloppy God. He's the one who messed up,
> how can he punish his creation for being able to be tempted. Who
> instilled the temptation if God created 'everything'??? The whole
> story makes no sense at all and you are a completely deluded fool if
> you believe in that fairytale.
>
> What stupidity!
>
> Fools!!
Well, some of the most prominent critics of creationism and ID do not
think that it's foolish to believe in God.
Free Lunch
Frank J <fn...@comcast.net> wrote in
<4812691e-0654-42e2...@w28g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>:
True, but I cannot think of any prominent critics of religion who reject
science.
John Wilkins
I seriously doubt if any "live" deity exists that is more than 40
centuries old. Got any in mind?
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Philosophy
University of Queensland - Blog: scienceblogs.com/evolvingthoughts
"He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor,
bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious."
Ferrous Patella
news:1i8wj7e.1y8odiqjxtm4iN%j.wil...@uq.edu.au:
> Ferrous Patella <Ferrous...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> jonasand...@gmail.com wrote in news:d0fb8558-9087-4a10-9c21-
>> 0ad7b5...@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > How the bloody hell can a normal modern human believe in
>> > overdramatized folklore from flippin 20 centuries ago???
>>
>> Well, there's your problem right there. Most god stories are more
>> like 50 60 centuries old, and that's just the written down version.
>> You want to get something with a little maturity to it.
>
> I seriously doubt if any "live" deity exists that is more than 40
> centuries old. Got any in mind?
Are you saying when a god starts using an alias, it is not longer 'live'?
Nic
> Ferrous Patella <FerrousPate...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > jonasandthede...@gmail.com wrote in news:d0fb8558-9087-4a10-9c21-
> > 0ad7b5d69...@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
>
> > > How the bloody hell can a normal modern human believe in
> > > overdramatized folklore from flippin 20 centuries ago???
>
> > Well, there's your problem right there. Most god stories are more like 50
> > 60 centuries old, and that's just the written down version. You want to get
> > something with a little maturity to it.
>
> I seriously doubt if any "live" deity exists that is more than 40
> centuries old. Got any in mind?
Shiva may or may not go back further than that. It certainly makes
one think that gods are not the same sort of fashions as say,
Communism. The timescales are completely different.
John Wilkins
> On 10 Dec, 00:47, j.wilki...@uq.edu.au (John Wilkins) wrote:
> > Ferrous Patella <FerrousPate...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > jonasandthede...@gmail.com wrote in news:d0fb8558-9087-4a10-9c21-
> > > 0ad7b5d69...@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
> >
> > > > How the bloody hell can a normal modern human believe in
> > > > overdramatized folklore from flippin 20 centuries ago???
> >
> > > Well, there's your problem right there. Most god stories are more like
> > > 50 60 centuries old, and that's just the written down version. You
> > > want to get something with a little maturity to it.
> >
> > I seriously doubt if any "live" deity exists that is more than 40
> > centuries old. Got any in mind?
>
> Shiva may or may not go back further than that. It certainly makes
> one think that gods are not the same sort of fashions as say,
> Communism. The timescales are completely different.
I don't know the personal biography of Shiva. YHWH, however, is a late
Bronze age Phonecian deity taken on and transformed by one group that
worshipped him and conflated him with his dad, El. The Zoroastrians
might be the longest relatively unchanged religious tradition. They're a
special case, as they forbid outmarriage, which tends to make social
cohesion important, and hence the tarditions are maintained statically.
--
skyeyes
While I generally agree with you, this topic is far more appropriate
for alt.atheism. Why not pony over there and ask Michelle Malkin for
an A.A. number and join the party?
And you might get a lot out of a book I'm currently about half-way
through: _Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon_, by
Daniel C. Dennett. It's Dennett's explanation of how religions got
started (in spite of there being no god-thingy) and why they persist.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
skyeyes at dakotacom dot net
Bill Morse
> Ferrous Patella <Ferrous...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> jonasand...@gmail.com wrote in news:d0fb8558-9087-4a10-9c21-
>> 0ad7b5...@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > How the bloody hell can a normal modern human believe in
>> > overdramatized folklore from flippin 20 centuries ago???
>>
>> Well, there's your problem right there. Most god stories are more like 50
>> 60 centuries old, and that's just the written down version. You want to
>> get something with a little maturity to it.
>
> I seriously doubt if any "live" deity exists that is more than 40
> centuries old. Got any in mind?
So using the Tinkerbell Criterium for deity existence, we can safely
define "immortal" as "really old, but <= 4000 years". It is clearly time
to start worshipping bristlecone pines.
--
Yours, Bill Morse
Don Cates
Wilkins) posted:
>Nic <harris...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10 Dec, 00:47, j.wilki...@uq.edu.au (John Wilkins) wrote:
>> > Ferrous Patella <FerrousPate...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> > > jonasandthede...@gmail.com wrote in news:d0fb8558-9087-4a10-9c21-
>> > > 0ad7b5d69...@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
>> >
>> > > > How the bloody hell can a normal modern human believe in
>> > > > overdramatized folklore from flippin 20 centuries ago???
>> >
>> > > Well, there's your problem right there. Most god stories are more like
>> > > 50 60 centuries old, and that's just the written down version. You
>> > > want to get something with a little maturity to it.
>> >
>> > I seriously doubt if any "live" deity exists that is more than 40
>> > centuries old. Got any in mind?
>>
>> Shiva may or may not go back further than that. It certainly makes
>> one think that gods are not the same sort of fashions as say,
>> Communism. The timescales are completely different.
>
>I don't know the personal biography of Shiva. YHWH, however, is a late
>Bronze age Phonecian deity taken on and transformed by one group that
>worshipped him and conflated him with his dad, El. The Zoroastrians
>might be the longest relatively unchanged religious tradition. They're a
>special case, as they forbid outmarriage, which tends to make social
>cohesion important, and hence the tarditions are maintained statically.
>
"tarditions" - best typo of the year. It should be used again.
--
Don Cates ("he's a cunning rascal" - PN)
John Wilkins
The way I type, it often is. But most of the time I correct it in time.
jonasand...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for the tip. I've read Dawkins' book, quite a good read. Just
frustrating sometimes to see how people waste their time needlessly on
such a childish subject...
J
jonasand...@gmail.com
> > discussion on evolution? No, you cannot brush off fossils with some
> > lame excuse concerning 'satan', for if satan did do it, then we are
> > worshipping the wrong diety. Think about it, satan masterfully creates
> > billions of years of history, things are mellow and relatively
> > harmonious. Now along comes God, or YHWH, and within 10,000 years, a
> > geological split-second, the whole ecology and atmosphere is
> > unstable!!! And the creator of this we worship???
>
> That's only the creator that YECs worship. Ask them.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Even worse, along
> > comes 'God' right, he creates 'everything': adam, eve, even the
> > flippin snake in the tree (if not who then, is god's power
> > challengable? then he's not exactly omnipotent is he?). right, so
> > here's this snake, created by God. 'hello eve, here's an apple'. The
> > creature, made according to the image of God himself, does not
> > hesitate and takes a nice big munch out of this apple. And not God
> > punishes his creation? What a sloppy God. He's the one who messed up,
> > how can he punish his creation for being able to be tempted. Who
> > instilled the temptation if God created 'everything'??? The whole
> > story makes no sense at all and you are a completely deluded fool if
> > you believe in that fairytale.
>
> > What stupidity!
>
> > Fools!!
>
> Well, some of the most prominent critics of creationism and ID do not
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Then we might have to talk about what it means to be 'foolish'. If
believing in a teapot half-way between jupiter and mars is
consolidating, fine with me, but if I have to fear for my life because
of openly doubting about 'teapotism', then it starts to become
foolish... not so?
jonasand...@gmail.com
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 16:59:32 -0800 (PST), the following
> appeared in talk.origins, posted by
> >discussion on evolution? No, you cannot brush off fossils with some
> >lame excuse concerning 'satan', for if satan did do it, then we are
> >worshipping the wrong diety. Think about it, satan masterfully creates
> >billions of years of history, things are mellow and relatively
> >harmonious. Now along comes God, or YHWH, and within 10,000 years, a
> >geological split-second, the whole ecology and atmosphere is
> >unstable!!! And the creator of this we worship??? Even worse, along
> >comes 'God' right, he creates 'everything': adam, eve, even the
> >flippin snake in the tree (if not who then, is god's power
> >challengable? then he's not exactly omnipotent is he?). right, so
> >here's this snake, created by God. 'hello eve, here's an apple'. The
> >creature, made according to the image of God himself, does not
> >hesitate and takes a nice big munch out of this apple. And not God
> >punishes his creation? What a sloppy God. He's the one who messed up,
> >how can he punish his creation for being able to be tempted. Who
> >instilled the temptation if God created 'everything'??? The whole
> >story makes no sense at all and you are a completely deluded fool if
> >you believe in that fairytale.
>
> >What stupidity!
>
> >Fools!!
>
> --
>
> Bob C.
>
> "Evidence confirming an observation is
> evidence that the observation is wrong."
>
> - Show quoted text -
No, just ming boggling how people can believe in this stuff, in
today's times... quite scary really...
Don Cates
Wilkins) posted:
But using it again would be a 'retardition' which, in some contexts,
is an evolution to an excellent specie.
Walter Bushell
j.wil...@uq.edu.au (John Wilkins) wrote:
> > "tarditions" - best typo of the year. It should be used again.
>
> The way I type, it often is. But most of the time I correct it in time.
> --
You've heard about "reintarnation" -- getting another life as a redneck.
Walter Bushell
<dce3c98c-4e40-489d...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com>,
skyeyes <sky...@dakotacom.net> wrote:
<snip rant (mostly justified IMAO) about YAHUWU (and SON).>
> While I generally agree with you, this topic is far more appropriate
> for alt.atheism. Why not pony over there and ask Michelle Malkin for
> an A.A. number and join the party?
Maybe he believes in another deity?
danrus...@gmail.com
>This is just an age-old power struggle, back from the time when we
>were apes.
Prove it.
>Discussions between creationists and 'evolutionists' is a
>matter of chucking around some carefully picked words in the form of
>subtle insults and completely avoiding the subject. The real effort is
>stimulated by the desire for power. Most creationists on this forum do
>not love their neighbor as themselves, but they condemn, very
>selectively. The whole biblical message, if there is one, is utterly
>void here. There is no love or understanding, just monkey behavior,
>powergrabbing, insulting, fighting, being clever and outsmarting the
>other. No-one really gets the point, scriptures, whether religious or
>scientific, will never help you attain the 'kingdom of heaven', if
>anything, they drive us right away from it.
Good for you, you believe you came from apes, and act like you came
from apes!
Seriously though, there is completely scientific evidence that proves
Creation.
>'God' gave you flippin eyes to see reality, whether it is a crying
>baby or fossils in a rock, its hard reality, and still there's a
>discussion on evolution? No, you cannot brush off fossils with some
>lame excuse concerning 'satan', for if satan did do it, then we are
>worshipping the wrong diety. Think about it, satan masterfully creates
>billions of years of history, things are mellow and relatively
>harmonious. Now along comes God, or YHWH, and within 10,000 years, a
>geological split-second, the whole ecology and atmosphere is
>unstable!!! And the creator of this we worship??? Even worse, along
>comes 'God' right, he creates 'everything': adam, eve, even the
>flippin snake in the tree (if not who then, is god's power
>challengable? then he's not exactly omnipotent is he?). right, so
>here's this snake, created by God. 'hello eve, here's an apple'. The
>creature, made according to the image of God himself, does not
>hesitate and takes a nice big munch out of this apple. And not God
>punishes his creation? What a sloppy God. He's the one who messed up,
>how can he punish his creation for being able to be tempted. Who
>instilled the temptation if God created 'everything'??? The whole
>story makes no sense at all and you are a completely deluded fool if
>you believe in that fairytale.
It makes sense, unless you are a completely deluded fool who believe
in fairy tales about things coming from nothing.
God gave us free will, because, would you rather have slaves that HAVE
to follow you, or servants who follow you because they want to.
Next time you say something, think about it from my point of view,
because your post is almost the same as what I would post, but from an
atheistic viewpoint.
tex...@gmail.com
> Nic <harrisonda...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > On 10 Dec, 00:47, j.wilki...@uq.edu.au (John Wilkins) wrote:
> > > Ferrous Patella <FerrousPate...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > > jonasandthede...@gmail.com wrote in news:d0fb8558-9087-4a10-9c21-
> > > > 0ad7b5d69...@e4g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:
>
> > > > > How the bloody hell can a normal modern human believe in
> > > > > overdramatized folklore from flippin 20 centuries ago???
>
> > > > Well, there's your problem right there. Most god stories are more like
> > > > 50 60 centuries old, and that's just the written down version. You
> > > > want to get something with a little maturity to it.
>
> > > I seriously doubt if any "live" deity exists that is more than 40
> > > centuries old. Got any in mind?
>
> > Shiva may or may not go back further than that. It certainly makes
> > one think that gods are not the same sort of fashions as say,
> > Communism. The timescales are completely different.
>
> I don't know the personal biography of Shiva. YHWH, however, is a late
> Bronze age Phonecian deity taken on and transformed by one group that
> worshipped him and conflated him with his dad, El. The Zoroastrians
> might be the longest relatively unchanged religious tradition. They're a
> special case, as they forbid outmarriage, which tends to make social
> cohesion important, and hence the tarditions are maintained statically.
That's a beautiful typo! Thanks!
Regards,
Karel
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by danrus...@gmail.com:
<snip>
>Seriously though, there is completely scientific evidence that proves
>Creation.
Please post a link to that evidence.
<snip>