BBC: Science dull and hard, pupils say
Ian H Spedding
"Some 51% of teenagers think science lessons are boring, confusing or
difficult, a survey suggests.
Figures from the OCR exam board, which interviewed 950 children aged 13
to 16 in England, showed 7% thought people working in the area were
"cool".
The number of pupils choosing to study physics and chemistry at school
and university level is falling.
According to the survey, some children thought singer Madonna and
explorer Christopher Columbus were scientists."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4100936.stm
Ian
--
Ian H Spedding
JPG
wrote:
Boring, confusing, difficult - give me Darwin and Einstein over James Joyce any
day.
JPG
>
>Ian
Ian H Spedding
I was wondering how many here would sympathise with one of the
comments:
"Why bother to study difficult science subjects such as chemistry,
physics etc in order to become a scientist when you can study easier
business/management degrees and become a scientist's boss on a much
higher wage?
Disgruntled Scientist, Herts, England"
JPG
wrote:
>Ian H Spedding wrote:
Science is, by and large, a vocation. People who take science degrees are often
very interested in science and, that being the case, find the degrees that much
easier.
Personally I can't think of anything worse than doing a business or management
degree, as I would find the subject matter dull and boring, and therefore harder
to absorb.
Many of us have possibly been faced with prospect of promotion to some
desk-bound management job with higher salary, but may well have turned it down
to remain in the lab or in the field.
JPG
EKur...@aol.com
> >From the article:
>
> "Some 51% of teenagers think science lessons are boring, confusing or
> difficult, a survey suggests.
>
> Figures from the OCR exam board, which interviewed 950 children aged 13
> to 16 in England, showed 7% thought people working in the area were
> "cool".
>
> The number of pupils choosing to study physics and chemistry at school
> and university level is falling.
>
> According to the survey, some children thought singer Madonna and
> explorer Christopher Columbus were scientists."
Madonna a "singer"? Amazing the nonsense some people believe.
Bob Pease
"Ian H Spedding" <ian.sp...@homecall.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1119250767.1...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
America,UK, wherever.
Anything that's not sex drigs or "Music" or a video game is boring,
confusing or difficult.
O tempora
O mores
RJ Pease
RJ P
Robert Grumbine
Sympathize, no. But I've been pointing out this reality for a
couple of years now.
--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences
EKur...@aol.com
A somewhat weak article, since it does not say how fast interest in
science is falling, whether it has fallen and recovered in the past,
nor what is causing the fall now.
It seems hardly surprising that "51% of teenagers think science lessons
are boring" since 50% of teenagers have IQ's less than or equal to 100.
The fall in interest may simply be the result of science being taught
properly after a period of catering to the LCD.
Bob Pease
<EKur...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1119279603.5...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Even assuming that IQ< 80 are not likely to be in the "General population"
It may , in fact BE that the requisite skills to do well in Science are
being neglected or whitewashed.
Specifically, verbal skills and basic analytical skills are fumbled and
blurred.
I too think that falling interest in Science Majors at colleges reflects
economic opportunities rather than a shift in innate academic talent.
But students are not often held accountable for any learning beyond passing
the next test, and getting a grade of "B" which means
Barely adequate.
Recently in this ng, a post was made by a person who was at a University.
This person should have been retained in third grade, and WOULD have, in my
"Daze" of parochial schools in the '50's
Bob Pease
Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia
news:2f6db1dodpfrhnp1v...@4ax.com:
>
> Boring, confusing, difficult - give me Darwin and Einstein over James
> Joyce any day.
>
>
LOL...well-said.
littlejon
"Ian H Spedding" <ian.sp...@homecall.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1119250767.1...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >From the article:
>
> "Some 51% of teenagers think science lessons are boring, confusing or
> difficult, a survey suggests.
>
> Figures from the OCR exam board, which interviewed 950 children aged 13
> to 16 in England, showed 7% thought people working in the area were
> "cool".
>
> The number of pupils choosing to study physics and chemistry at school
> and university level is falling.
As far as I am aware, in the UK at least, this isn't true. The same absolute
numbers are applying, but this is seen as a plummeting percentage as more &
more people who 20 years ago wouldn't have gone anywhere near a University
now enrol on the glut of 'media studies'-type courses...
jg
Niels van der Linden
ages.
Somehow, it's an intrinsic quality. The life of a teacher isn't that
romantic, you know? In some way, they are a failure of their field, and
almost always lack the feature of bringing excitement to the class.
Also, you're always busy with very detailed things, and a lot of memorizing.
Never a word about the big picture or what life's really all about. Again:
what do you expect from the average teacher? Exceptions exist, ofcourse, but
I am talking about the integral structures.
It's the people like David Attenborough, Joseph Campbell, Stephen Hawking,
etc, who really get the bigger picture of their field, and are able to
communicate this to you. Obviously you won't find these people in the
classroom, so a structural change is needed in schools if you want people to
be more interested in science.
Niels
David D.
I bet that is not the alternative. Grand Theft Auto gaming and MTV
seem to be the competition.
Robert Grumbine
It'd be interesting if you would pursue the distribution by major.
I've previously posted the numbers and percentages for the US. Number
in math/science/engineering is flat or declining, and percentage is
down strongly. But it isn't 'media studies' that is picking up.
It is, in the US, business.
Kari Tikkanen
> etc, who really get the bigger picture of their field, and are able to
> communicate this to you. Obviously you won't find these people in the
> classroom, so a structural change is needed in schools if you want people to
> be more interested in science."
No need to bring people in class but more books or videos ?
I've always thought that school could/should use more science
popularizing books.
I remember how my father borrowed quite old Georg Popp & H. Pleticha,
Wir leben seit fuenf sekunde, ~ One Million years - five seconds,
(1958) (Miljoona vuotta - viisi sekuntia in Finnish) from local public
library and read it at nights. I got to look too, not so much
interested in text (I was so young, not able to read) but looked
wonderful drawed pictures like man flying into atmosphere dangling from
big cube full of gas from epsilon aurigaes (very low density like
helium) . It was comparison just like next picture where car technician
was scratching his hair and staring Volkswagen which was in balance
with sugar cube size of materia from white dwarf star. Father explained
those to me, later I learned to read and could read myself.
Book was old and for adults, and it was still interesting and
"Wow.."-inspiring. Not dull at all.
In school You have to learn generalizations and equations, those are
dull for most pupils, but could they be peppered with those kind of
comparisons here and there ?
"PV=nRT" examples and exercises should be around motors, cylinders,
moped pistons etc. Those are much more interesting and nearer to
personal life than reaction chambers in factory..
shane
Of course the fallacy here is that in 10 years there will be so few
scientists to be boss of. And the few that are left will then be able to
write their own ticket. Advice to future job hunters, seek a skill that
is difficult to acheive, and where the numbers of practioners is
falling. However, avoid buggy whip manufacture.
--
shane
EKur...@aol.com
But this would just fool kids into believing that science is all
gee-whiz stuff with fabulous graphics and science fiction weirdness.
Real science, the sort of material that is tested in a serious exam, is
challenging. If you like it, you like it *because* it is challenging.
You can't turn a course in physics into an episode of Star Trek.
Niels van der Linden
> gee-whiz stuff with fabulous graphics and science fiction weirdness.
What are you talking about.
> Real science, the sort of material that is tested in a serious exam, is
> challenging. If you like it, you like it *because* it is challenging.
> You can't turn a course in physics into an episode of Star Trek.
What are you talking about.
ash...@hotmail.com
STOP THE PRESS!
Teenagers find school boring!
What a development!
Harlequin
> According to the survey, some children thought singer Madonna and
> explorer Christopher Columbus were scientists."
That material scientist?
--
Anti-spam: replace "usenet@sdc." with "harlequin2@"
"Scam artists all use the 'debate ploy': perpetual-motion-machine
inventors, magnet therapists, UFO conspiracy theorists, all of them.
They win just by being on the same platform."
- Bob Park
Gary Bohn
news:xoGte.399$vh3....@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au:
Yes of course. If you go into whip manufacturing, make sure all the bugs
are removed prior to placing it on the market. This works for software
too.
--
Gary Bohn
Science rationally modifies a theory to fit evidence, creationism
emotionally modifies evidence to fit the bible.
Gary Bohn
news:d96n65$t...@dispatch.concentric.net:
Hey, I'm damn near as old as you are, have 6 years of university and
can't write or speak to save my life. I've heard that it really helps
when you don't major in recreational drug use.
I have always wondered; why is computer science always in the faculty of
science? Shouldn't it be with the engineers in applied tom-foolery?
Nathan Urban
> I have always wondered; why is computer science always in the faculty of
> science? Shouldn't it be with the engineers in applied tom-foolery?
Sometimes it is. To give two examples with which I'm familiar: Penn
State's department is called "Computer Science & Engineering" in the
College of Engineering, and a few years back Virginia Tech moved its
CS department from the College of Arts & Sciences to the College of
Engineering.
CS has traditionally been in the sciences because theoretical computer
science's relation to mathematics, which is usually in the sciences.
Robert Grumbine
shane <remarcs...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>Ian H Spedding wrote:
>> Ian H Spedding wrote:
>>
>>>>From the article:
>>>
>>>"Some 51% of teenagers think science lessons are boring, confusing or
>>>difficult, a survey suggests.
>>>
>>>Figures from the OCR exam board, which interviewed 950 children aged 13
>>>to 16 in England, showed 7% thought people working in the area were
>>>"cool".
>>>
>>>The number of pupils choosing to study physics and chemistry at school
>>>and university level is falling.
>>>
>>>According to the survey, some children thought singer Madonna and
>>>explorer Christopher Columbus were scientists."
>>>
>>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4100936.stm
>>
>> I was wondering how many here would sympathise with one of the
>> comments:
>>
>> "Why bother to study difficult science subjects such as chemistry,
>> physics etc in order to become a scientist when you can study easier
>> business/management degrees and become a scientist's boss on a much
>> higher wage?
>> Disgruntled Scientist, Herts, England"
>>
>
>scientists to be boss of. And the few that are left will then be able to
>write their own ticket. Advice to future job hunters, seek a skill that
>is difficult to acheive, and where the numbers of practioners is
>falling. However, avoid buggy whip manufacture.
Your first two lines have the problem of thinking that bossing scientists
is any significant part of the economy (of managers, that is). It isn't.
Management, as practiced in the US and places we've exported the concept
to, is an abstract art, equally applicable to management of scientists,
assembly line workers, and house painters. If there were no scientists
to manage, the managers who had done that will move on to a different,
larger, niche like landscapers. (I kid you not, there are now more
bachelor's degree graduates in landscaping than physical science.)
As there are few such managers in the first place, their moving on to
other areas would cause scarcely a ripple.
Science, in the US, is buggy whip manufacture. It'd needn't be so,
but our corporate structure and political process are currently making
it so.
laf
"Gary Bohn" <gary...@REMOVETHISaccesscomm.ca> wrote in message
>> Of course the fallacy here is that in 10 years there will be so few
>> scientists to be boss of. And the few that are left will then be able
>> to write their own ticket. Advice to future job hunters, seek a skill
>> that is difficult to acheive, and where the numbers of practioners is
>> falling. However, avoid buggy whip manufacture.
>>
>
> Yes of course. If you go into whip manufacturing, make sure all the bugs
> are removed prior to placing it on the market. This works for software
> too.
No, no, you just sell a new version with some of the bugs fixed a year
later. Haven't you studied the business model?
Gary Bohn
news:11bg3ea...@corp.supernews.com:
Damn, now I know why I can't make any money. My software works too well.
Time to put some bugs in it.
Paul J Gans
Illinois has always had it that way.
At NYU it is in the Arts and Sciences because some of us worked
very hard to get it that way. The notion was that it was NOT
to be "programmer training" to save Microsoft some money. It
was (and in my opinion is) a mathematical field and that's the
way it has turne out at NYU -- and most other places as well.
Put another way it is no more a "practical" subject than
chemistry. And students in chemistry put in lots of lab time.
---- Paul J. Gans
Mad Mambo Master of Macedonia
news:1119250767.1...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> The number of pupils choosing to study physics and chemistry at school
> and university level is falling.
>
>
I think I pretty much always hated school until I became a graduate
student...though I still kind of hated it then, too. When will children
realize that memorizing listoids is *FUN*?
--
"Are you going to torture him?"
"What would you do?"
"I'd torture him."
--Dog Soldiers.