In the News: Professor Considers Legal Action against Ray Comfort
Jason Spaceman
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stan Guffey had been waiting months for Nov. 18 to arrive. On that
day, Christian groups handed out free copies of a 150th-anniversary
edition of Charles Darwin�s Origin of Species on college campuses
across the country. Guffey is a biology lecturer at the University of
Tennessee who earned his doctorate studying genetic differences
between northern and southern populations of brook trout. When he
heard talk outside his office about people handing out books on the UT
plaza, Guffey says, �I hot-footed it over to get myself a copy.�
�Would you like me to autograph this?� Guffey asked the distributors,
telling them he is one of the authors, albeit unacknowledged. Since
spring, e-mails had been trickling in alerting him to extensive
similarities between the first three pages of the edition�s
introduction and �A Brief History of Charles Darwin,� which Guffey
wrote in 1997 for UT�s first Darwin Day event. He wrote the biography,
handed out on campus each February and available through the Darwin
Day website, �to make Darwin accessible to people who thought Darwin
was a devil, to make him human.�
It seems to have appealed to New Zealand-born evangelist Ray Comfort,
who wrote a 50-page introduction for Florida publisher Bridge-Logos�
reissue of Darwin�s treatise on evolution. Bridge-Logos lists dozens
of titles by Comfort in its catalog, including some co-authored by
actor Kirk Cameron, who also co-hosts a television series with
Comfort. Guffey is not acknowledged in the book, but the introduction
begins with his biography of Darwin. A few sentences were chopped or
shortened, and a paragraph on Darwin�s youth was rearranged and
reworded, but most of the passage appears taken directly from Guffey.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read it at
http://www.metropulse.com/news/2009/dec/02/ut-professor-considers-legal-action-over-use-charl/
J. Spaceman
Ron O
wrote:
> From the article:
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stan Guffey had been waiting months for Nov. 18 to arrive. On that
> day, Christian groups handed out free copies of a 150th-anniversary
> across the country. Guffey is a biology lecturer at the University of
> Tennessee who earned his doctorate studying genetic differences
> between northern and southern populations of brook trout. When he
> heard talk outside his office about people handing out books on the UT
>
> �Would you like me to autograph this?� Guffey asked the distributors,
> telling them he is one of the authors, albeit unacknowledged. Since
> spring, e-mails had been trickling in alerting him to extensive
> introduction and �A Brief History of Charles Darwin,� which Guffey
> wrote in 1997 for UT�s first Darwin Day event. He wrote the biography,
> handed out on campus each February and available through the Darwin
> was a devil, to make him human.�
>
> It seems to have appealed to New Zealand-born evangelist Ray Comfort,
> reissue of Darwin�s treatise on evolution. Bridge-Logos lists dozens
> of titles by Comfort in its catalog, including some co-authored by
> actor Kirk Cameron, who also co-hosts a television series with
> Comfort. Guffey is not acknowledged in the book, but the introduction
> begins with his biography of Darwin. A few sentences were chopped or
> reworded, but most of the passage appears taken directly from Guffey.
>
> Read it athttp://www.metropulse.com/news/2009/dec/02/ut-professor-considers-leg...
>
> J. Spaceman
The rest of the article is worth reading.
QUOTE:
According to local experts on intellectual property law, plagiarism
can be more an ethical matter than a legal one. Were an academic like
Guffey to do what Comfort did, it could potentially cost him his job.
The website of Comfort�s Living Waters ministry says, �An angry
backlash from atheists has prompted best-selling author Ray Comfort to
stop answering questions about [the book].� Guffey says he believes
this discrepancy encapsulates the different standards to which
scientists and their religious critics hold themselves.
END QUOTE:
Ron Okimoto
Jim
wrote:
<SNIP>
This is just too rich. Apparently Mr. Comfort is incapable of
original work and not at all ashamed of theft. What a hoot.
Mike Dworetsky
We've had "lying for Jesus". Is this "stealing for Jesus"?
--
Mike Dworetsky
(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)
Desertphile
It seems like one of the requirements of being a Fundamentalist
Christian is being a dishonest cheat.
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
Desertphile
wrote:
> On Dec 13, 8:20�pm, Jason Spaceman <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org>
> wrote:
> > From the article:
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Stan Guffey had been waiting months for Nov. 18 to arrive. On that
> > day, Christian groups handed out free copies of a 150th-anniversary
> > edition of Charles Darwin�s Origin of Species on college campuses
> > across the country. Guffey is a biology lecturer at the University of
> > Tennessee who earned his doctorate studying genetic differences
> > between northern and southern populations of brook trout. When he
> > heard talk outside his office about people handing out books on the UT
> > plaza, Guffey says, �I hot-footed it over to get myself a copy.�
> >
> > �Would you like me to autograph this?� Guffey asked the distributors,
> > telling them he is one of the authors, albeit unacknowledged. Since
> > spring, e-mails had been trickling in alerting him to extensive
> > similarities between the first three pages of the edition�s
> > introduction and �A Brief History of Charles Darwin,� which Guffey
> > wrote in 1997 for UT�s first Darwin Day event. He wrote the biography,
> > handed out on campus each February and available through the Darwin
> > Day website, �to make Darwin accessible to people who thought Darwin
> > was a devil, to make him human.�
> >
> > It seems to have appealed to New Zealand-born evangelist Ray Comfort,
> > who wrote a 50-page introduction for Florida publisher Bridge-Logos�
> > reissue of Darwin�s treatise on evolution. Bridge-Logos lists dozens
> > of titles by Comfort in its catalog, including some co-authored by
> > actor Kirk Cameron, who also co-hosts a television series with
> > Comfort. Guffey is not acknowledged in the book, but the introduction
> > begins with his biography of Darwin. A few sentences were chopped or
> > shortened, and a paragraph on Darwin�s youth was rearranged and
> > reworded, but most of the passage appears taken directly from Guffey.
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------�---
> >
> > Read it athttp://www.metropulse.com/news/2009/dec/02/ut-professor-considers-leg...
> >
> > J. Spaceman
> The rest of the article is worth reading.
>
> QUOTE:
> According to local experts on intellectual property law, plagiarism
> can be more an ethical matter than a legal one. Were an academic like
> Guffey to do what Comfort did, it could potentially cost him his job.
> The website of Comfort�s Living Waters ministry says, �An angry
> backlash from atheists has prompted best-selling author Ray Comfort to
> stop answering questions about [the book].� Guffey says he believes
> this discrepancy encapsulates the different standards to which
> scientists and their religious critics hold themselves.
> END QUOTE:
Rev Comfort wants people to believe that only atheists object to
his lies and plagerism; Rev Comfort appears to believe, or at
least wishes people to believe, that atheists hold the higher
ethical and moral high ground.
In that, studies within the USA and studies among similar
countries show Rev Comfort is correct: the more atheists a state
in the USA has, the fewer crimes; the more atheists a country has,
the fewer crimes and the higher standard of living. But I doubt
Rev Comfort meant to tell the truth about this.
Seems to be one of the requirements for being a Fundamentalist
Christian is a total lack of morality and ethics. Rev Comfort
certainly offers yet another data point for this observation.
Kermit
I'm willing to grant the possibility that "the banana" was all his
idea.
...but I wouldn't be astonished if he stole it from Kirk Cameron.
Kermit
heekster
<plati...@pants.btinternet.com> wrote:
>Jim wrote:
>> On Dec 13, 9:20 pm, Jason Spaceman <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org>
>> wrote:
>> <SNIP>
>>
>> This is just too rich. Apparently Mr. Comfort is incapable of
>> original work and not at all ashamed of theft. What a hoot.
>
>We've had "lying for Jesus". Is this "stealing for Jesus"?
Onward Christian Plagiarizers.
Christopher Denney
wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 19:04:49 -0800 (PST), Ron O <rokim...@cox.net>
> Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
> "Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
That's because it's only wrong, to a fundie, if one lacks ethics or
morals toward other fundies of the same type (kind?).
Behavior toward all others is "whatever you can get away with" because
they are all the damned anyway.
Desertphile
I wouldn't be astonished if Rev Comfort sees Cameron's banana
frequently.
--
Desertphile
It's only wrong if an atheist or a Jew does it.
Ye Old One
<deser...@invalid-address.net> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 10:31:45 -0800 (PST), Kermit
><unrestra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Dec 13, 7:56�pm, Jim <jimwille...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Dec 13, 9:20�pm, Jason Spaceman <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org>
>> > wrote:
>> > <SNIP>
>> >
>> > This is just too rich. �Apparently Mr. Comfort is incapable of
>> > original work and not at all ashamed of theft. �What a hoot.
>
>> I'm willing to grant the possibility that "the banana" was all his
>> idea.
>>
>> ...but I wouldn't be astonished if he stole it from Kirk Cameron.
>
>I wouldn't be astonished if Rev Comfort sees Cameron's banana
>frequently.
You mean the one designed by god to fit his hand?
--
Bob.
Ray Martinez
wrote:
> From the article:
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stan Guffey had been waiting months for Nov. 18 to arrive. On that
> day, Christian groups handed out free copies of a 150th-anniversary
> across the country. Guffey is a biology lecturer at the University of
> Tennessee who earned his doctorate studying genetic differences
> between northern and southern populations of brook trout. When he
> heard talk outside his office about people handing out books on the UT
>
> �Would you like me to autograph this?� Guffey asked the distributors,
> telling them he is one of the authors, albeit unacknowledged. Since
> spring, e-mails had been trickling in alerting him to extensive
> wrote in 1997 for UT�s first Darwin Day event. He wrote the biography,
> handed out on campus each February and available through the Darwin
> was a devil, to make him human.�
>
> It seems to have appealed to New Zealand-born evangelist Ray Comfort,
> reissue of Darwin�s treatise on evolution. Bridge-Logos lists dozens
> of titles by Comfort in its catalog, including some co-authored by
> actor Kirk Cameron, who also co-hosts a television series with
> Comfort. Guffey is not acknowledged in the book, but the introduction
> begins with his biography of Darwin. A few sentences were chopped or
> reworded, but most of the passage appears taken directly from Guffey.
Until both 3 page texts are available to compare side by side the
charge of plagiarism is unsupported.
Various sites offering the Guffey text, while indicating an ability to
read all three pages and entire text, actually only allow access to
the first page. And as far as I can tell the Comfort text is not
available on-line.
IF Ray Comfort did commit plagiarism then I will be the first to
condemn him. If he did not then the charge is typical Atheist slander
of a Theist.
Ray
Ray Martinez
> Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
>
> - Show quoted text -
Extreme delusion.
Just the opposite is true: the more Atheists a nation produces the
more murder and crime explodes. From Darwinism to the Holocaust to the
great Communist Atheist regimes of the 20th century: Atheists believe
murder is moral and that sin and evil do not exist.
Ray
Tim Norfolk
>
> - Show quoted text -
Most of the religions of the World have used 'sin and evil' to justify
the murder of lots of people.
Caranx latus
Ray, someone in this newsgroup once wrote the following:
"The President of the United States has the moral obligation
to protect OUR WAY OF LIFE: this mandates that we kill
anyone who threatens our way of life."
"What the Atheist-Darwinist does not understand is that
persons who ram airplanes into buildings cannot be negotiated
with, they must be killed. It is the only moral thing to do."
For 10 points, was it a Christian or was it an atheist?
By the way, speaking for myself, murder is *not* moral, sin does *not*
exist, and evil *does* exist. Congratulations on scoring 1 out of 3.
johnetho...@yahoo.com
Total lies like everything Ray posts. Ray - you do know that Hitler
described himself as a Christian and insisted that in perpetrating the
Holocaust he was doing the Lord's work?
Ye Old One
The UK and a lot of Europe prove you wrong Dishonest Ray.
--
Bob.
People may not always remember exactly what you said, but they will
always remember just how bright you made them feel.
VoiceOfReason
wrote:
> From the article:
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stan Guffey had been waiting months for Nov. 18 to arrive. On that
> day, Christian groups handed out free copies of a 150th-anniversary
> across the country. Guffey is a biology lecturer at the University of
> Tennessee who earned his doctorate studying genetic differences
> between northern and southern populations of brook trout. When he
> heard talk outside his office about people handing out books on the UT
>
> �Would you like me to autograph this?� Guffey asked the distributors,
> telling them he is one of the authors, albeit unacknowledged. Since
> spring, e-mails had been trickling in alerting him to extensive
> wrote in 1997 for UT�s first Darwin Day event. He wrote the biography,
> handed out on campus each February and available through the Darwin
> was a devil, to make him human.�
>
> It seems to have appealed to New Zealand-born evangelist Ray Comfort,
> reissue of Darwin�s treatise on evolution. Bridge-Logos lists dozens
> of titles by Comfort in its catalog, including some co-authored by
> actor Kirk Cameron, who also co-hosts a television series with
> Comfort. Guffey is not acknowledged in the book, but the introduction
> begins with his biography of Darwin. A few sentences were chopped or
> reworded, but most of the passage appears taken directly from Guffey.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would SO love to see this guy nail Comfort on this! :-D
heekster
<pyram...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Dec 13, 6:20�pm, Jason Spaceman <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org>
>wrote:
>> From the article:
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Stan Guffey had been waiting months for Nov. 18 to arrive. On that
>> day, Christian groups handed out free copies of a 150th-anniversary
>> edition of Charles Darwin�s Origin of Species on college campuses
>> across the country. Guffey is a biology lecturer at the University of
>> Tennessee who earned his doctorate studying genetic differences
>> between northern and southern populations of brook trout. When he
>> heard talk outside his office about people handing out books on the UT
>> plaza, Guffey says, �I hot-footed it over to get myself a copy.�
>>
>> �Would you like me to autograph this?� Guffey asked the distributors,
>> telling them he is one of the authors, albeit unacknowledged. Since
>> spring, e-mails had been trickling in alerting him to extensive
>> similarities between the first three pages of the edition�s
>> introduction and �A Brief History of Charles Darwin,� which Guffey
>> wrote in 1997 for UT�s first Darwin Day event. He wrote the biography,
>> handed out on campus each February and available through the Darwin
>> Day website, �to make Darwin accessible to people who thought Darwin
>> was a devil, to make him human.�
>>
>> It seems to have appealed to New Zealand-born evangelist Ray Comfort,
>> who wrote a 50-page introduction for Florida publisher Bridge-Logos�
>> reissue of Darwin�s treatise on evolution. Bridge-Logos lists dozens
>> of titles by Comfort in its catalog, including some co-authored by
>> actor Kirk Cameron, who also co-hosts a television series with
>> Comfort. Guffey is not acknowledged in the book, but the introduction
>> begins with his biography of Darwin. A few sentences were chopped or
>> shortened, and a paragraph on Darwin�s youth was rearranged and
>> reworded, but most of the passage appears taken directly from Guffey.
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------�---
>>
>> Read it athttp://www.metropulse.com/news/2009/dec/02/ut-professor-considers-leg...
>>
>> J. Spaceman
>
>Until both 3 page texts are available to compare side by side the
>charge of plagiarism is unsupported.
>
>Various sites offering the Guffey text, while indicating an ability to
>read all three pages and entire text, actually only allow access to
>the first page. And as far as I can tell the Comfort text is not
>available on-line.
>
>IF Ray Comfort did commit plagiarism then I will be the first to
>condemn him. If he did not then the charge is typical Atheist slander
>of a Theist.
>
Slander is spoken, libel is written.
The only thing typical here, is your illiteracy.
Get an education, or at least a cheap dictionary.
guscubed
Remind what's the proportion of atheists in prison populations
compared to the proportion of atheists in the general population of
the US?
The biggest con the abrahamic religions ever pulled was to claim the
monopoly on morality. I sincerely hope that you do not ascribe to
biblical morals, apart from being largely contradictory, a lot of them
would land you in prison in today's more enlightened society. Stoning
to death for adultery anyone? Death for working on the sabbath? "All I
said was that piece of fish was good enough for Jehovah!"
All-Seeing-I
>
> > Read it athttp://www.metropulse.com/news/2009/dec/02/ut-professor-considers-leg...
>
> > J. Spaceman
>
> Until both 3 page texts are available to compare side by side the
> charge of plagiarism is unsupported.
>
> Various sites offering the Guffey text, while indicating an ability to
> read all three pages and entire text, actually only allow access to
> the first page. And as far as I can tell the Comfort text is not
> available on-line.
>
> IF Ray Comfort did commit plagiarism then I will be the first to
> condemn him. If he did not then the charge is typical Atheist slander
> of a Theist.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Atheist = drama queen
Ray Martinez
Persons who commit crime, get arrested, convicted and sent to prison
are all Atheists (100 percent). While in prison a large amount cease
backsliding or come to Christ and get saved. Upon release some
backslide into Atheism again. Repeat process.
The point is: when committing crimes persons are Atheist, devil
worshippers, they have ceased resisting temptation. While in prison
they are, for the most part, Christians or Theists, striving to walk
with Christ or their God.
Of course ***I could*** support everything seen above from the Bible.
> The biggest con the abrahamic religions ever pulled was to claim the
> monopoly on morality.
There is more morality in any given Church than any lab or classroom
or board room or court room etc.etc.
> I sincerely hope that you do not ascribe to
> biblical morals, apart from being largely contradictory, a lot of them
> would land you in prison in today's more enlightened society. Stoning
> to death for adultery anyone? Death for working on the sabbath? "All I
> said was that piece of fish was good enough for Jehovah!"- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Typical Atheist quote mining.
Ray
Ray Martinez
> On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:31:51 -0800 (PST), Ray Martinez
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Dec 13, 6:20�pm, Jason Spaceman <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org>
> >wrote:
> >> From the article:
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Stan Guffey had been waiting months for Nov. 18 to arrive. On that
> >> day, Christian groups handed out free copies of a 150th-anniversary
> >> across the country. Guffey is a biology lecturer at the University of
> >> Tennessee who earned his doctorate studying genetic differences
> >> between northern and southern populations of brook trout. When he
> >> heard talk outside his office about people handing out books on the UT
>
> >> �Would you like me to autograph this?� Guffey asked the distributors,
> >> telling them he is one of the authors, albeit unacknowledged. Since
> >> spring, e-mails had been trickling in alerting him to extensive
> >> wrote in 1997 for UT�s first Darwin Day event. He wrote the biography,
> >> handed out on campus each February and available through the Darwin
> >> was a devil, to make him human.�
>
> >> It seems to have appealed to New Zealand-born evangelist Ray Comfort,
> >> reissue of Darwin�s treatise on evolution. Bridge-Logos lists dozens
> >> of titles by Comfort in its catalog, including some co-authored by
> >> actor Kirk Cameron, who also co-hosts a television series with
> >> Comfort. Guffey is not acknowledged in the book, but the introduction
> >> begins with his biography of Darwin. A few sentences were chopped or
> >> reworded, but most of the passage appears taken directly from Guffey.
>
> >> Read it athttp://www.metropulse.com/news/2009/dec/02/ut-professor-considers-leg...
>
> >> J. Spaceman
>
> >Until both 3 page texts are available to compare side by side the
> >charge of plagiarism is unsupported.
>
> >Various sites offering the Guffey text, while indicating an ability to
> >read all three pages and entire text, actually only allow access to
> >the first page. And as far as I can tell the Comfort text is not
> >available on-line.
>
> >IF Ray Comfort did commit plagiarism then I will be the first to
> >condemn him. If he did not then the charge is typical Atheist slander
> >of a Theist.
>
> Slander is spoken, libel is written.
>
> The only thing typical here, is your illiteracy.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Slander is the correct generic term, representing the general concept
of deliberate and malicious misrepresentation.
I have noticed that all of the Darwinists that frequent this news
group to be completely ignorant of this **basic fact.** Could we
expect anything else from persons who think apes morphed into men over
the course of millions of years?
Ray
Ray Martinez
>
> > > Read it athttp://www.metropulse.com/news/2009/dec/02/ut-professor-considers-leg...
>
> > > J. Spaceman
>
> > Until both 3 page texts are available to compare side by side the
> > charge of plagiarism is unsupported.
>
> > Various sites offering the Guffey text, while indicating an ability to
> > read all three pages and entire text, actually only allow access to
> > the first page. And as far as I can tell the Comfort text is not
> > available on-line.
>
> > IF Ray Comfort did commit plagiarism then I will be the first to
> > condemn him. If he did not then the charge is typical Atheist slander
> > of a Theist.
>
> > Ray- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Drama queens are basically harmless, not so with the Atheist. He is a
vicious liar, devil worshipper, deceiver who is known to wear sheeps
clothing (like a Ken Miller) seeking the total destruction of the
Bible, Christianity and Theism.
Ray
haiku jones
Um...am I the only one here who's wondering how many
neurons you have to strangle at birth to decide that
atheists -- who don't believe in god, angels, ghosts,
imps, demons, dragons, or the Loch Ness monster
-- worship the "devil"?
Haiku Jone
bpuharic
<pyram...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Drama queens are basically harmless, not so with the Atheist. He is a
>vicious liar, devil worshipper, deceiver who is known to wear sheeps
>clothing (like a Ken Miller) seeking the total destruction of the
>Bible, Christianity and Theism.
>
plus we have bad breath.
haiku jones
> On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 17:59:20 -0800 (PST), Ray Martinez
>
>
> >Drama queens are basically harmless, not so with the Atheist. He is a
> >vicious liar, devil worshipper, deceiver who is known to wear sheeps
> >clothing (like a Ken Miller) seeking the total destruction of the
> >Bible, Christianity and Theism.
>
> plus we have bad breath.
Eat the last cookie, too.
Haiku Jones
Caranx latus
> On Dec 15, 6:59 pm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
>> Drama queens are basically harmless, not so with the Atheist. He is a
>> vicious liar, devil worshipper, deceiver who is known to wear sheeps
>> clothing (like a Ken Miller) seeking the total destruction of the
>> Bible, Christianity and Theism.
>
> Um...am I the only one here who's wondering how many
> neurons you have to strangle at birth to decide that
> atheists -- who don't believe in god, angels, ghosts,
> imps, demons, dragons, or the Loch Ness monster
> -- worship the "devil"?
You might be. I think that most of us already know that the answer to
that is "damn near all of them."
Caranx latus
> On Dec 15, 2:59 pm, guscubed <james.prenderg...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>>> Just the opposite is true: the more Atheists a nation produces the
>>> more murder and crime explodes. From Darwinism to the Holocaust to the
>>> great Communist Atheist regimes of the 20th century: Atheists believe
>>> murder is moral and that sin and evil do not exist.
>>> Ray
>> Remind what's the proportion of atheists in prison populations
>> compared to the proportion of atheists in the general population of
>> the US?
>>
>
> Persons who commit crime, get arrested, convicted and sent to prison
> are all Atheists (100 percent). While in prison a large amount cease
> backsliding or come to Christ and get saved. Upon release some
> backslide into Atheism again. Repeat process.
>
> The point is: when committing crimes persons are Atheist, devil
> worshippers, they have ceased resisting temptation. While in prison
> they are, for the most part, Christians or Theists, striving to walk
> with Christ or their God.
>
> Of course ***I could*** support everything seen above from the Bible.
Indeed. I suspect that's the only way that it *could* be supported.
<snip>
Ray Martinez
>
> > > > > Read it athttp://www.metropulse.com/news/2009/dec/02/ut-professor-considers-leg...
>
> > > > > J. Spaceman
>
> > > > Until both 3 page texts are available to compare side by side the
> > > > charge of plagiarism is unsupported.
>
> > > > Various sites offering the Guffey text, while indicating an ability to
> > > > read all three pages and entire text, actually only allow access to
> > > > the first page. And as far as I can tell the Comfort text is not
> > > > available on-line.
>
> > > > IF Ray Comfort did commit plagiarism then I will be the first to
> > > > condemn him. If he did not then the charge is typical Atheist slander
> > > > of a Theist.
>
> > > > Ray- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Atheist = drama queen- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Drama queens are basically harmless, not so with the Atheist. He is a
> > vicious liar, devil worshipper, deceiver who is known to wear sheeps
> > clothing (like a Ken Miller) seeking the total destruction of the
> > Bible, Christianity and Theism.
>
> > Ray
>
> Um...am I the only one here who's wondering how many
> neurons you have to strangle at birth to decide that
> atheists -- who don't believe in god, angels, ghosts,
> imps, demons, dragons, or the Loch Ness monster
>
> Haiku Jone- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Atheism is caused by the effects of dualism.
Your comment misses the point and assumes devil worship cannot occur
unless acknowledgement of existence has taken place. According to the
Bible everyone since the Fall is born a devil worshipper
automatically. The Bible does not debate the fairness of this, it
simply declares it so. The Bible also says if ***any*** man come to
Christ he is a new creature. The Bible does not debate the fairness of
this, it simply declares it so.
Ray
Ray Martinez
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes, the highest and most respected source of all time: God's eternal
word.
Ray
Caranx latus
> On Dec 15, 6:22 pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Ray Martinez wrote:
>>> On Dec 15, 2:59 pm, guscubed <james.prenderg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>> Just the opposite is true: the more Atheists a nation produces the
>>>>> more murder and crime explodes. From Darwinism to the Holocaust to the
>>>>> great Communist Atheist regimes of the 20th century: Atheists believe
>>>>> murder is moral and that sin and evil do not exist.
>>>>> Ray
>>>> Remind what's the proportion of atheists in prison populations
>>>> compared to the proportion of atheists in the general population of
>>>> the US?
>>> Persons who commit crime, get arrested, convicted and sent to prison
>>> are all Atheists (100 percent). While in prison a large amount cease
>>> backsliding or come to Christ and get saved. Upon release some
>>> backslide into Atheism again. Repeat process.
>>> The point is: when committing crimes persons are Atheist, devil
>>> worshippers, they have ceased resisting temptation. While in prison
>>> they are, for the most part, Christians or Theists, striving to walk
>>> with Christ or their God.
>>> Of course ***I could*** support everything seen above from the Bible.
>> Indeed. I suspect that's the only way that it *could* be supported.
>>
>> <snip>
>
> word.
No, can't support it using any real world data because the real world
data likely disagrees with your conclusions.
Baron Bodissey
Wrong, as usual: "In law, defamation�also called calumny,
vilification, slander (for spoken words), and libel (for written or
otherwise published words)�is the communication of a statement that
makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may
give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a
negative image. It is usually, but not always,[1] a requirement that
this claim be false and that the publication is communicated to
someone other than the person defamed (the claimant)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
I know ya'll don't give a crap about facts, but it is SO easy to look
something up that you really have no excuse. It seems you are ignorant
of this **basic fact**.
Baron Bodissey
Back off, man, I�m a scientist!
� Ghostbusters
Caranx latus
> On Dec 15, 6:09 pm, haiku jones <575jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>> Um...am I the only one here who's wondering how many
>> neurons you have to strangle at birth to decide that
>> atheists -- who don't believe in god, angels, ghosts,
>> imps, demons, dragons, or the Loch Ness monster
>> -- worship the "devil"?
>>
> Atheism is caused by the effects of dualism.
>
> Your comment misses the point and assumes devil worship cannot occur
> unless acknowledgement of existence has taken place. According to the
> Bible everyone since the Fall is born a devil worshipper
> automatically. The Bible does not debate the fairness of this, it
> simply declares it so. The Bible also says if ***any*** man come to
> Christ he is a new creature. The Bible does not debate the fairness of
> this, it simply declares it so.
I'm not saying that you're wrong, Ray, but you have been wrong about the
Bible before so I'm not taking any chances. Could you please cite me the
appropriate verse(s) that support your claim above? Thanks. I appreciate it.
Free Lunch
<pyram...@yahoo.com> wrote in talk.origins:
Show us what God said. There's no evidence that the Bible has anything
to do with God.
Ray Martinez
>
> - Show quoted text -
This reply might establish the existence of other terms that also
define or describe the general concept at issue.
Ray
bpuharic
AND we leave the toilet seat up.
we're SUCH bastards...
Ray Martinez
>
> - Show quoted text -
Your so called "real world data" identifies most prison inmates as
"Christians." I accepted this general fact while pointing out that
these same persons were Atheists before incarceration. A person is
not a Christian when committing murder, rape, or robbery. They are
Atheist----acting like Christ does not exist. Again, your so called
"real world data" probably does not take this fact into account.
Ray
Ray Martinez
These comments recognize my Biblical expertise and the need of my
enemies to counter that perception.
Ray
haiku jones
The infield fly rule applies when there are fewer than
two outs, and there is a force play at third base
(runners on first and second base, or bases loaded).
Under these conditions, if a fly ball is hit into fair
territory and the umpire perceives that an infielder
using ordinary effort would be able to catch the ball,
the umpire will call the batter automatically out. Even
if the infielder later drops the ball, it makes no
difference. As soon as the umpire makes the call, the
batter is out and must leave the field.
While the fairness of this rather contrived
edict can be debated, there is no denying
that it is so.
> The Bible does not debate the fairness of this, it
> simply declares it so.
Well, you buy one of those cheap Chinese
knockoffs, that's what you get.
My Bible says no such thing.
Haiku Jones
Ray Martinez
> On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:33:49 -0800 (PST), Ray Martinez
>
> - Show quoted text -
Do a Bible Gateway search of phrases like "And the LORD said" or "and
God said."
Ray
Caranx latus
> On Dec 15, 6:39 pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
<snip>
>> No, can't support it using any real world data because the real world
>> data likely disagrees with your conclusions.
>
> Your so called "real world data" identifies most prison inmates as
> "Christians." I accepted this general fact while pointing out that
> these same persons were Atheists before incarceration. A person is
> not a Christian when committing murder, rape, or robbery. They are
> Atheist----acting like Christ does not exist.
I want to be clear about this. Are you suggesting that Christians
*cannot* sin? Or are you suggesting that a person that does not *act*
like a Christian cannot *be* a Christian?
Does someone who councils in favor of murder a Christian or not?
One of the widely recognizes definitions of what it means to be
Christian is provided by the Nicene Creed, which you can find online.
There is *nothing* in it about how a Christian should *act*: it only
discusses what a Christian should *believe*. I cannot see any reason why
a criminal cannot hold those beliefs and yet still be able to commit a
crime.
> Again, your so called
> "real world data" probably does not take this fact into account.
That is likely true, but only because most of the criminals would
probably have identified themselves as Christians at the time that the
crime was committed.
haiku jones
So, if you sin, you're not a Christian?
Wow. Tough religion.
Or is it just some sins? Bouncing checks, can Christians
do that? Drive with an expired license? How about
drunk, can you drive drunk and still be a Christian?
And why do you limit it to two choices, Christian
or Atheist? Maybe all the murderers, robbers,
mother fuckers and father rapers were Bahai'i
and Raelians, but became Christian the second
the door slammed shut behind them? That
an alternative possibliity?
Haiku Jones
>
> Ray
Ray Martinez
Why is it that Bibles owned by Atheists are always missing many pages?
Ray
> Haiku Jones
>
>
>
> > �The Bible also says if ***any*** man come to
> > Christ he is a new creature. The Bible does not debate the fairness of
> > this, it simply declares it so.
>
> > Ray- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
haiku jones
Well, hey, I suppose I might have overlooked it in my
twenty or so years as a Christian.
So enlighten me: chapter and verse which proclaims
that after the Fall, all worship the devil -- even those
of us who, apparently, are doing a very inadequate
job of it, since we kind of ignore him. Sort of
like we ignore LokI, Ahriman, and Sauron.
(thinks he's pissed?)
Haiku Jones
Caranx latus
Wrong again, Ray. I am skeptical of your Biblical "expertise" and I
would be really quite surprised if you could actually support your
claim. I couldn't help but notice that you didn't deign to respond to my
request by actually providing the verses that would support your claim.
My skepticism is looking pretty good so far.
Do you remember the discussion that we had about who the "John" referred
to in the opening verses of the Gospel of John was about? You insisted
that it was the apostle, but it is clear from context that it was John
the Baptist. I have *good reason* to be skeptical of your "expertise".
haiku jones
You have ENEMIES?
Good lord, man, what are you doing wrong?
Haiku Jones
>
> Ray
haiku jones
> Ray Martinez wrote:
> > On Dec 15, 6:39 pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >> No, can't support it using any real world data because the real world
> >> data likely disagrees with your conclusions.
>
> > Your so called "real world data" identifies most prison inmates as
> > "Christians." I accepted this general fact while pointing out that
> > these same persons were Atheists before incarceration. �A person is
> > not a Christian when committing murder, rape, or robbery. They are
> > Atheist----acting like Christ does not exist.
>
> I want to be clear about this. Are you suggesting that Christians
> *cannot* sin? Or are you suggesting that a person that does not *act*
> like a Christian cannot *be* a Christian?
>
Oh, he's trying to do a cheap three-card monte here, but the
onlookers aren't buying it. Specifically he tries to claim that
acting as if Christ does not exist is identical to not believing
that Christ does exist.
Sort of like saying that if I stole cookies from the cookie
jar, I was an a-momist, because I was acting as if my
mom did not exist, and would punish me. Pretty
silly, eh?
Haiku Jones
Baron Bodissey
Did you just admit you might have been in error? Nah, I'm dreaming.
Baron Bodissey
Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every
fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a
God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of
reason than that of blindfolded fear.
� Thomas Jefferson
Ray Martinez
During the act----no, of course not.
> Wow. �Tough religion.
>
> Or is it just some sins? �Bouncing checks, can Christians
> do that? �Drive with an expired license? �How about
> drunk, can you drive drunk and still be a Christian?
>
> And why do you limit it to two choices, Christian
> or Atheist? �Maybe all the murderers, robbers,
> mother fuckers and father rapers were Bahai'i
> and Raelians, but became Christian the second
> the door slammed shut behind them? �That
> an alternative possibliity?
>
> Haiku Jones
>
>
I did account for other Theists in my argument.
Ray
Caranx latus
> On Dec 15, 7:12 pm, haiku jones <575jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 15, 7:28 pm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
>>> Your comment misses the point and assumes devil worship cannot occur
>>> unless acknowledgement of existence has taken place. According to the
>>> Bible everyone since the Fall is born a devil worshipper automatically.
>> The infield fly rule applies when there are fewer than
>> two outs, and there is a force play at third base
>> (runners on first and second base, or bases loaded).
>> Under these conditions, if a fly ball is hit into fair
>> territory and the umpire perceives that an infielder
>> using ordinary effort would be able to catch the ball,
>> the umpire will call the batter automatically out. Even
>> if the infielder later drops the ball, it makes no
>> difference. As soon as the umpire makes the call, the
>> batter is out and must leave the field.
>>
>> While the fairness of this rather contrived
>> edict can be debated, there is no denying
>> that it is so.
>>
>>> The Bible does not debate the fairness of this, it
>>> simply declares it so.
>> Well, you buy one of those cheap Chinese
>> knockoffs, that's what you get.
>>
>> My Bible says no such thing.
>>
>
> Why is it that Bibles owned by Atheists are always missing many pages?
Which pages are those, Ray?
<snip>
Caranx latus
> On Dec 15, 8:12 pm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
>> These comments recognize my Biblical expertise and the need of my
>> enemies to counter that perception.
>
> You have ENEMIES?
>
> Good lord, man, what are you doing wrong?
Ray is capable of seeing in only black and white. If you're not with him
(and no-one is) then obviously you're against him.
haiku jones
Wow. Really really touch religion.
But kind interesting...tell me, if you would:
what percent of an average day are you
yourself a Christian?
Haiku Jones
Caranx latus
> On Dec 15, 8:24 pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Ray Martinez wrote:
>>> On Dec 15, 6:39 pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> No, can't support it using any real world data because the real world
>>>> data likely disagrees with your conclusions.
>>> Your so called "real world data" identifies most prison inmates as
>>> "Christians." I accepted this general fact while pointing out that
>>> these same persons were Atheists before incarceration. A person is
>>> not a Christian when committing murder, rape, or robbery. They are
>>> Atheist----acting like Christ does not exist.
>
>
>> I want to be clear about this. Are you suggesting that Christians
>> *cannot* sin? Or are you suggesting that a person that does not *act*
>> like a Christian cannot *be* a Christian?
>>
>
> Oh, he's trying to do a cheap three-card monte here, but the
> onlookers aren't buying it. Specifically he tries to claim that
> acting as if Christ does not exist is identical to not believing
> that Christ does exist.
>
> Sort of like saying that if I stole cookies from the cookie
> jar, I was an a-momist, because I was acting as if my
> mom did not exist, and would punish me. Pretty
> silly, eh?
Ray has some pretty strange ideas. In this case, it looks like he's
saying that in fact Christians don't need to be forgiven their sins
because no Christian ever actually commits a sin. If a sin is committed,
the person instantly reverts to atheist, and as far as I know, atheists
can't sin because sin is a transgression against God's dictates and
atheists have no belief in the existence of God. Man, this hurts my brain...
(You're new here, aren't you? It might be wise not to use a- or anti-
prefixes on words. Ray thinks that these prefixes mean the same thing,
and he's likely to go off on one of his weird folk etymological rants if
he sees them.)
<snip>
Ray Martinez
> Ray Martinez wrote:
> > On Dec 15, 6:39 pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >> No, can't support it using any real world data because the real world
> >> data likely disagrees with your conclusions.
>
> > Your so called "real world data" identifies most prison inmates as
> > "Christians." I accepted this general fact while pointing out that
> > these same persons were Atheists before incarceration. �A person is
> > not a Christian when committing murder, rape, or robbery. They are
> > Atheist----acting like Christ does not exist.
>
> I want to be clear about this. Are you suggesting that Christians
> *cannot* sin?
Of course not. I am saying that when they do they are not a Christian
following Christ.
> Or are you suggesting that a person that does not *act*
> like a Christian cannot *be* a Christian?
>
> Does someone who councils in favor of murder a Christian or not?
>
> One of the widely recognizes definitions of what it means to be
> Christian is provided by the Nicene Creed, which you can find online.
The Nicene Creed is not a definition of Christianity. It is a
declaration of beliefs about God and Christ and His Church.
> There is *nothing* in it about how a Christian should *act*: it only
> discusses what a Christian should *believe*.
Exactly what I said above.
> I cannot see any reason why
> a criminal cannot hold those beliefs and yet still be able to commit a
> crime.
>
He is not a follower of Christ while committing crime. He is acting
like Christ does not exist----he is an Atheist.
> > Again, your so called
> > "real world data" probably does not take this fact into account.
>
> That is likely true, but only because most of the criminals would
> probably have identified themselves as Christians at the time that the
> crime was committed.
Mistakenly, yes, I agree. But not during the act itself. I doubt any
criminal would say that he was a Christian during the commission of a
crime. Logic says the exact opposite: he was an Atheist, devil
worshipper.
Ray
Caranx latus
> On Dec 15, 7:24 pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Ray Martinez wrote:
>>> On Dec 15, 6:39 pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> No, can't support it using any real world data because the real world
>>>> data likely disagrees with your conclusions.
>>> Your so called "real world data" identifies most prison inmates as
>>> "Christians." I accepted this general fact while pointing out that
>>> these same persons were Atheists before incarceration. A person is
>>> not a Christian when committing murder, rape, or robbery. They are
>>> Atheist----acting like Christ does not exist.
>> I want to be clear about this. Are you suggesting that Christians
>> *cannot* sin?
>
> Of course not. I am saying that when they do they are not a Christian
> following Christ.
I'm confused. You've said that they are atheists when the sin is
committed. So that should mean that they aren't Christian at that time.
So, if they aren't Christian when the sin is committed, then no
Christian commits a sin. Perhaps you could clarify your position more
fully.
>> Or are you suggesting that a person that does not *act*
>> like a Christian cannot *be* a Christian?
>>
>> Does someone who councils in favor of murder a Christian or not?
You missed this, Ray. Would you mind answering it now?
>> One of the widely recognizes definitions of what it means to be
>> Christian is provided by the Nicene Creed, which you can find online.
>
> The Nicene Creed is not a definition of Christianity. It is a
> declaration of beliefs about God and Christ and His Church.
It was always my understanding that a person who could recite the Nicene
Creed *and mean it* should be considered a Christian. How am I wrong
about that?
>> There is *nothing* in it about how a Christian should *act*: it only
>> discusses what a Christian should *believe*.
>
> Exactly what I said above.
>
>> I cannot see any reason why
>> a criminal cannot hold those beliefs and yet still be able to commit a
>> crime.
>>
>
> He is not a follower of Christ while committing crime. He is acting
> like Christ does not exist----he is an Atheist.
Therefore only atheists commit crimes? Is that what you're saying?
>>> Again, your so called
>>> "real world data" probably does not take this fact into account.
>> That is likely true, but only because most of the criminals would
>> probably have identified themselves as Christians at the time that the
>> crime was committed.
>
> Mistakenly, yes, I agree. But not during the act itself. I doubt any
> criminal would say that he was a Christian during the commission of a
> crime. Logic says the exact opposite: he was an Atheist, devil
> worshipper.
Belief in the devil requires acceptance that the Christian mythos is
true as far as I know, because the devil is ultimately a Christian
concept. Atheists *don't* accept that Christianity is true, so I doubt
that atheists worship the devil. Certainly I don't.
Desertphile
<pyram...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Dec 14, 8:16�am, Desertphile <desertph...@invalid-address.net>
> wrote:
> > On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 19:04:49 -0800 (PST), Ron O <rokim...@cox.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Dec 13, 8:20 pm, Jason Spaceman <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > > From the article:
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Stan Guffey had been waiting months for Nov. 18 to arrive. On that
> > > > day, Christian groups handed out free copies of a 150th-anniversary
> > > > edition of Charles Darwin s Origin of Species on college campuses
> > > > across the country. Guffey is a biology lecturer at the University of
> > > > Tennessee who earned his doctorate studying genetic differences
> > > > between northern and southern populations of brook trout. When he
> > > > heard talk outside his office about people handing out books on the UT
> > > > plaza, Guffey says, I hot-footed it over to get myself a copy.
> >
> > > > Would you like me to autograph this? Guffey asked the distributors,
> > > > telling them he is one of the authors, albeit unacknowledged. Since
> > > > spring, e-mails had been trickling in alerting him to extensive
> > > > similarities between the first three pages of the edition s
> > > > introduction and A Brief History of Charles Darwin, which Guffey
> > > > wrote in 1997 for UT s first Darwin Day event. He wrote the biography,
> > > > handed out on campus each February and available through the Darwin
> > > > Day website, to make Darwin accessible to people who thought Darwin
> > > > was a devil, to make him human.
> >
> > > > It seems to have appealed to New Zealand-born evangelist Ray Comfort,
> > > > who wrote a 50-page introduction for Florida publisher Bridge-Logos
> > > > reissue of Darwin s treatise on evolution. Bridge-Logos lists dozens
> > > > of titles by Comfort in its catalog, including some co-authored by
> > > > actor Kirk Cameron, who also co-hosts a television series with
> > > > Comfort. Guffey is not acknowledged in the book, but the introduction
> > > > begins with his biography of Darwin. A few sentences were chopped or
> > > > shortened, and a paragraph on Darwin s youth was rearranged and
> > > > reworded, but most of the passage appears taken directly from Guffey.
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------� ---
> >
> > > > Read it athttp://www.metropulse.com/news/2009/dec/02/ut-professor-considers-leg...
> >
> > > > J. Spaceman
> > > The rest of the article is worth reading.
> >
> > > QUOTE:
> > > According to local experts on intellectual property law, plagiarism
> > > can be more an ethical matter than a legal one. Were an academic like
> > > Guffey to do what Comfort did, it could potentially cost him his job.
> > > The website of Comfort s Living Waters ministry says, An angry
> > > backlash from atheists has prompted best-selling author Ray Comfort to
> > > stop answering questions about [the book]. Guffey says he believes
> > > this discrepancy encapsulates the different standards to which
> > > scientists and their religious critics hold themselves.
> > > END QUOTE:
> >
> > Rev Comfort wants people to believe that only atheists object to
> > his lies and plagerism; Rev Comfort appears to believe, or at
> > least wishes people to believe, that atheists hold the higher
> > ethical and moral high ground.
> >
> > In that, studies within the USA and studies among similar
> > countries show Rev Comfort is correct: the more atheists a state
> > in the USA has, the fewer crimes; the more atheists a country has,
> > the fewer crimes and the higher standard of living. But I doubt
> > Rev Comfort meant to tell the truth about this.
> >
> > Seems to be one of the requirements for being a Fundamentalist
> > Christian is a total lack of morality and ethics. Rev Comfort
> > certainly offers yet another data point for this observation.
> Extreme delusion.
Where/what, exactly? If I am wrong about anything I write or say,
I very much wish to know I am wrong. If you consider yourself a
kind person, please be kind and take a few minutes to correct me
if anything I wrote above is wrong. Thank you in advance.
> Just the opposite is true: the more Atheists (sic) a nation produces the
> more murder and crime explodes.
You mean all of the studies, inside the USA as well as
international studies, are wrong? Or did all those scientists, and
the FBI, and dozens of other law enforcement agencies, lie?
> From Darwinism to the Holocaust to the
Darwinism is a Fundamentalist Christian belief. The latest
Holocaust was caused by Martin Luther (i.e., Protestant
Christianity).
> great Communist Atheist regimes of the 20th century:
Got any examples of those?
> Atheists believe murder is moral and that sin and evil do not exist.
Er, ah... why are atheist countries the most law-abiding, the
least criminal, and the highest in standards of living?
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
J.J. O'Shea
(in article
<5165fe66-ca57-4b45...@z3g2000prd.googlegroups.com>):
> On Dec 15, 8:31ï¿œpm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 15, 7:24ï¿œpm, haiku jones <575jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 15, 8:02ï¿œpm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> these same persons were Atheists before incarceration. ï¿œA person is
>>>> not a Christian when committing murder, rape, or robbery. They are
>>>> Atheist----acting like Christ does not exist. Again, your so called
>>>> "real world data" probably does not take this fact into account.
>>
>>> So, if you sin, you're not a Christian?
>>
>
>> During the act----no, of course not.
>
> Wow. Really really touch religion.
>
> But kind interesting...tell me, if you would:
> what percent of an average day are you
> yourself a Christian?
I'd say that he spends rather less than 0.001% of his time in that state.
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
Desertphile
wrote:
> >Extreme delusion.
> >
> >Just the opposite is true: the more Atheists a nation produces the
> >more murder and crime explodes. From Darwinism to the Holocaust to the
> >great Communist Atheist regimes of the 20th century: Atheists believe
> >murder is moral and that sin and evil do not exist.
> The UK and a lot of Europe prove you wrong Dishonest Ray.
USA statistics from the FBI also prove Mister Martinez wrong. I
plotted the data and the trend line, and I made a video on the
subject: the states with the least theists are also the states
with the least crime.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmaNILtcxZk
Anyone who cares to may download the data and plot the trend---
even most adult theists can do it; Ray doesn't dare look at the
numbers for the same reason Flat Earthers don't dare look at
Earth's shadow on the moon during an eclipse.
The more atheists a state has, the fewer crimes that state has.
International data shows that the more atheists a country has, the
fewer crimes that country has; the higher that country's standard
of living is; the lower the infant mortality is; the more liberal
that country is; and the healthier that country is. See my video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiDJjeX8x8Y
The data I used for the video is available here:
http://holysmoke.org/temp/religion-social-health-ep07398441_c.pdf
The United States of America is the most religious industrialized
country in the world: it is also the most violent, with great
inequality, a high infant mortality rate, a shameful illiteracy
rate, a staggeringly high murder rate, and an assortment of social
ills that countries with little religion don't have.
Ray Martinez believes he will be sent to his gods' hell if he
looks at the facts. Martinez will never get over that fear.
Burkhard
>>>> Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> Just the opposite is true: the more Atheists a nation produces the
>>> more murder and crime explodes. From Darwinism to the Holocaust to the
>>> great Communist Atheist regimes of the 20th century: Atheists believe
>>> murder is moral and that sin and evil do not exist.
>> Remind what's the proportion of atheists in prison populations
>> compared to the proportion of atheists in the general population of
>> the US?
>>
>
> Persons who commit crime, get arrested, convicted and sent to prison
> are all Atheists (100 percent).
Just for clarification: So only criminals who get caught are atheists?
Those that get away with it are Christians (divine help in their escape
plan??)?
Burkhard
> On Dec 15, 2:06 pm, heekster <heeks...@ifiwxtc.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:31:51 -0800 (PST), Ray Martinez
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Dec 13, 6:20 pm, Jason Spaceman <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>> From the article:
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Stan Guffey had been waiting months for Nov. 18 to arrive. On that
>>>> day, Christian groups handed out free copies of a 150th-anniversary
>>>> across the country. Guffey is a biology lecturer at the University of
>>>> Tennessee who earned his doctorate studying genetic differences
>>>> between northern and southern populations of brook trout. When he
>>>> heard talk outside his office about people handing out books on the UT
>>>> �Would you like me to autograph this?� Guffey asked the distributors,
>>>> telling them he is one of the authors, albeit unacknowledged. Since
>>>> spring, e-mails had been trickling in alerting him to extensive
>>>> wrote in 1997 for UT�s first Darwin Day event. He wrote the biography,
>>>> handed out on campus each February and available through the Darwin
>>>> was a devil, to make him human.�
>>>> It seems to have appealed to New Zealand-born evangelist Ray Comfort,
>>>> reissue of Darwin�s treatise on evolution. Bridge-Logos lists dozens
>>>> of titles by Comfort in its catalog, including some co-authored by
>>>> actor Kirk Cameron, who also co-hosts a television series with
>>>> Comfort. Guffey is not acknowledged in the book, but the introduction
>>>> begins with his biography of Darwin. A few sentences were chopped or
>>>> reworded, but most of the passage appears taken directly from Guffey.
>>>> Read it athttp://www.metropulse.com/news/2009/dec/02/ut-professor-considers-leg...
>>>> J. Spaceman
>>> charge of plagiarism is unsupported.
>>> Various sites offering the Guffey text, while indicating an ability to
>>> read all three pages and entire text, actually only allow access to
>>> the first page. And as far as I can tell the Comfort text is not
>>> available on-line.
>>> IF Ray Comfort did commit plagiarism then I will be the first to
>>> condemn him. If he did not then the charge is typical Atheist slander
>>> of a Theist.
>> Slander is spoken, libel is written.
>>
>> The only thing typical here, is your illiteracy.
>>
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> of deliberate and malicious misrepresentation.
Nope. "Defamation" is the generic term, of which libel and slander are
two subcategories.
Here is an easily accessible expert definition:
http://www.expertlaw.com/library/personal_injury/defamation.html
Note: "Generally speaking, defamation is the issuance of a false
statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm.
Slander involves the making of defamatory statements by a transitory
(non-fixed) representation, usually an oral (spoken) representation.
Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a printed or fixed
medium, such as a magazine or newspaper."
For a more scholarly source see
Andrew Kenyon: Defamation: Comparative Law and Practice UCL Press 2006 p.7
See also Robert D. Sack : Sack on Defamation: Libel, Slander, and
Related Problems Practising Law Institute 2009, especially chapter 1.
It was for some time contested if internet communications are libel or
slander, due to the transitory nature of some of the communication, but
this has now been firmly settled for libel.
see M Collins: Law of Defamation and the Internet 2001,Oxford University
Press 2006, specially p. 45ff: "Libel or Slander."
~
>
> I have noticed that all of the Darwinists that frequent this news
> group to be completely ignorant of this **basic fact.**
Thta's because it is not a fact.
Ye Old One
As demonstrated so often by the creationists on TO.
> a staggeringly high murder rate, and an assortment of social
>ills that countries with little religion don't have.
>
>Ray Martinez believes he will be sent to his gods' hell if he
>looks at the facts. Martinez will never get over that fear.
Nor will a lot of others.
--
Bob.
Theists think all gods but theirs are false. Atheists simply don't
make an exception for the last one.
Ye Old One
<pyram...@yahoo.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>On Dec 15, 2:59�pm, guscubed <james.prenderg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > --http://desertphile.org
>> > > Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
>> > > "Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > Extreme delusion.
>>
>> > Just the opposite is true: the more Atheists a nation produces the
>> > more murder and crime explodes. From Darwinism to the Holocaust to the
>> > great Communist Atheist regimes of the 20th century: Atheists believe
>> > murder is moral and that sin and evil do not exist.
>>
>> > Ray
>>
>> Remind what's the proportion of atheists in prison populations
>> compared to the proportion of atheists in the general population of
>> the US?
>>
>
>Persons who commit crime, get arrested, convicted and sent to prison
>are all Atheists (100 percent).
You are a VERY dishonest person.
>While in prison a large amount cease
>backsliding or come to Christ and get saved. Upon release some
>backslide into Atheism again. Repeat process.
>
>The point is: when committing crimes persons are Atheist, devil
>worshippers, they have ceased resisting temptation. While in prison
>they are, for the most part, Christians or Theists, striving to walk
>with Christ or their God.
>
>Of course ***I could*** support everything seen above from the Bible.
Why use a book of bronze age fairy tales for anything other than shit
paper?
>
>> The biggest con the abrahamic religions ever pulled was to claim the
>> monopoly on morality.
>
>There is more morality in any given Church than any lab or classroom
>or board room or court room etc.etc.
>
>> I sincerely hope that you do not ascribe to
>> biblical morals, apart from being largely contradictory, a lot of them
>> would land you in prison in today's more enlightened society. Stoning
>> to death for adultery anyone? Death for working on the sabbath? "All I
>> said was that piece of fish was good enough for Jehovah!"- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Typical Atheist quote mining.
Truth hurts you Dishonest Ray.
>
>Ray
>
--
Bob.
People may not always remember exactly what you said, but they will
always remember just how bright you made them feel.
Ye Old One
<pyram...@yahoo.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>On Dec 15, 6:22�pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Ray Martinez wrote:
>> > On Dec 15, 2:59 pm, guscubed <james.prenderg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >>> Just the opposite is true: the more Atheists a nation produces the
>> >>> more murder and crime explodes. From Darwinism to the Holocaust to the
>> >>> great Communist Atheist regimes of the 20th century: Atheists believe
>> >>> murder is moral and that sin and evil do not exist.
>> >>> Ray
>> >> Remind what's the proportion of atheists in prison populations
>> >> compared to the proportion of atheists in the general population of
>> >> the US?
>>
>> > Persons who commit crime, get arrested, convicted and sent to prison
>> > are all Atheists (100 percent). While in prison a large amount cease
>> > backsliding or come to Christ and get saved. Upon release some
>> > backslide into Atheism again. Repeat process.
>>
>> > The point is: when committing crimes persons are Atheist, devil
>> > worshippers, they have ceased resisting temptation. While in prison
>> > they are, for the most part, Christians or Theists, striving to walk
>> > with Christ or their God.
>>
>> > Of course ***I could*** support everything seen above from the Bible.
>>
>> Indeed. I suspect that's the only way that it *could* be supported.
>>
>> <snip>- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Yes, the highest and most respected source of all time: God's eternal
>word.
Which god(s)? There are so many that have been invented by man.
>
>Ray
--
Bob.
A religious war is like children fighting over who has the strongest
imaginary friend.
Ye Old One
<pyram...@yahoo.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>> > Yes, the highest and most respected source of all time: God's eternal
>> > word.
>>
>> No, can't support it using any real world data because the real world
>> data likely disagrees with your conclusions.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Your so called "real world data" identifies most prison inmates as
>"Christians."
They do seem to cause a lot of trouble.
>I accepted this general fact while pointing out that
>these same persons were Atheists before incarceration.
Rubbish.
> A person is
>not a Christian when committing murder, rape, or robbery.
And yet a lot of all three have been done over the years in the name
of your gods.
> They are
>Atheist----acting like Christ does not exist. Again, your so called
>"real world data" probably does not take this fact into account.
Because it is a figment of your imagination.
>
>Ray
--
Bob.
If brains were taxed, you would get a rebate.
Burkhard
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> Um...am I the only one here who's wondering how many
>>>> neurons you have to strangle at birth to decide that
>>>> atheists -- who don't believe in god, angels, ghosts,
>>>> imps, demons, dragons, or the Loch Ness monster
>>>> -- worship the "devil"?
>>> Atheism is caused by the effects of dualism.
>>> unless acknowledgement of existence has taken place. According to the
>>> Bible everyone since the Fall is born a devil worshipper
>>> simply declares it so. The Bible also says if ***any*** man come to
>>> this, it simply declares it so.
>> Bible before so I'm not taking any chances. Could you please cite me the
>> appropriate verse(s) that support your claim above? Thanks. I appreciate it.
>
> enemies to counter that perception.
>
> Ray
>
VoiceOfReason
I think that may be a case of the difference between correlation and
causality. I think most of those examples also reflect the difference
between affluence and poverty. More poverty equates to more crime.
People stuck in the cycle of poverty haven't much to look forward to.
In many cases, thoughts of a beautiful afterlife may be all they have
to provide some sense of hope in their lives. People who are more
affluent don't need such things to the same degree; they don't 'need'
thoughts of God or heaven.
g...@risky-biz.com
> On Dec 15, 7:24�pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Ray Martinez wrote:
> > > On Dec 15, 6:39 pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> > <snip>
>
> > >> No, can't support it using any real world data because the real world
> > >> data likely disagrees with your conclusions.
>
> > > Your so called "real world data" identifies most prison inmates as
> > > "Christians." I accepted this general fact while pointing out that
> > > these same persons were Atheists before incarceration. �A person is
> > > not a Christian when committing murder, rape, or robbery. They are
> > > Atheist----acting like Christ does not exist.
>
> > I want to be clear about this. Are you suggesting that Christians
> > *cannot* sin?
>
> Of course not. I am saying that when they do they are not a Christian
> following Christ.
I see. Then let's amend the original claim. People who spend 99% of
their time as Christians are more likely to go to jail than people who
spend 100% of their time as atheists.
> > Or are you suggesting that a person that does not *act*
> > like a Christian cannot *be* a Christian?
>
<snip>
> He is not a follower of Christ while committing crime. He is acting
> like Christ does not exist----he is an Atheist.
>
> > > Again, your so called
> > > "real world data" probably does not take this fact into account.
>
> > That is likely true, but only because most of the criminals would
> > probably have identified themselves as Christians at the time that the
> > crime was committed.
>
> Mistakenly, yes, I agree. But not during the act itself. I doubt any
> criminal would say that he was a Christian during the commission of a
> crime.
I am confident that none of your "usually Christian" criminals would
say that they believed there was no God during the commission of the
crime. This whole argument is detached from human reality. People
sometimes do things they know to be "wrong" by their own morality.That
doesn't mean they don't know it to be wrong, or have adopted some
different philosophy. More likely need or fear or greed or anger was
more in the forefront of their minds at the time.
>Logic says the exact opposite: he was an Atheist, devil
> worshipper.
Logic would dictate that no atheist is a devil worshipper. It is also
faulty logic to assume that anyone "not following Christ" is an
atheist.
Ye Old One
<pyram...@yahoo.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>On Dec 15, 7:24嚙緘m, haiku jones <575jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 15, 8:02嚙緘m, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > these same persons were Atheists before incarceration. 嚙璀 person is
>> > not a Christian when committing murder, rape, or robbery. They are
>> > Atheist----acting like Christ does not exist. Again, your so called
>> > "real world data" probably does not take this fact into account.
>>
>> So, if you sin, you're not a Christian?
>>
>
>During the act----no, of course not.
You are an idiot Dishonest Ray.
>
>> Wow. 嚙確ough religion.
>>
>> Or is it just some sins? 嚙畿ouncing checks, can Christians
>> do that? 嚙瘩rive with an expired license? 嚙瘡ow about
>> drunk, can you drive drunk and still be a Christian?
>>
>> And why do you limit it to two choices, Christian
>> or Atheist? 嚙瞎aybe all the murderers, robbers,
>> mother fuckers and father rapers were Bahai'i
>> and Raelians, but became Christian the second
>> the door slammed shut behind them? 嚙確hat
>> an alternative possibliity?
>>
>> Haiku Jones
>>
>>
>
>I did account for other Theists in my argument.
Did you?
>
>Ray
>
--
Bob.
If brains were dynamite, you wouldn't have enough to blow your nose.
Ye Old One
<pyram...@yahoo.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>On Dec 15, 7:24�pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Ray Martinez wrote:
>> > On Dec 15, 6:39 pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> >> No, can't support it using any real world data because the real world
>> >> data likely disagrees with your conclusions.
>>
>> > Your so called "real world data" identifies most prison inmates as
>> > "Christians." I accepted this general fact while pointing out that
>> > these same persons were Atheists before incarceration. �A person is
>> > not a Christian when committing murder, rape, or robbery. They are
>> > Atheist----acting like Christ does not exist.
>>
>> I want to be clear about this. Are you suggesting that Christians
>> *cannot* sin?
>
>Of course not. I am saying that when they do they are not a Christian
>following Christ.
Duh!
>
>> Or are you suggesting that a person that does not *act*
>> like a Christian cannot *be* a Christian?
>>
>> Does someone who councils in favor of murder a Christian or not?
>>
>> One of the widely recognizes definitions of what it means to be
>> Christian is provided by the Nicene Creed, which you can find online.
>
>The Nicene Creed is not a definition of Christianity. It is a
>declaration of beliefs about God and Christ and His Church.
It is a core part though, it is the essence of what being a christian
is supposed to be.
>
>> There is *nothing* in it about how a Christian should *act*: it only
>> discusses what a Christian should *believe*.
>
>Exactly what I said above.
>
>> I cannot see any reason why
>> a criminal cannot hold those beliefs and yet still be able to commit a
>> crime.
>>
>
>He is not a follower of Christ while committing crime. He is acting
>like Christ does not exist----he is an Atheist.
Could he also be a Jew? A Muslim? A Hindu? None of them believe in
your JC as a god.
>
>> > Again, your so called
>> > "real world data" probably does not take this fact into account.
>>
>> That is likely true, but only because most of the criminals would
>> probably have identified themselves as Christians at the time that the
>> crime was committed.
>
>Mistakenly, yes, I agree. But not during the act itself. I doubt any
>criminal would say that he was a Christian during the commission of a
>crime. Logic says the exact opposite: he was an Atheist, devil
>worshipper.
So Kent 'Bogus Degree' Hovind was not a christian when he was fiddling
his taxes in the name of his god?
Ye Old One
<pyram...@yahoo.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>On Dec 15, 6:49�pm, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:33:49 -0800 (PST), Ray Martinez
>> <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote in talk.origins:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Dec 15, 6:22�pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> >> Ray Martinez wrote:
>> >> > On Dec 15, 2:59 pm, guscubed <james.prenderg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> <snip>
>>
>> >> >>> Just the opposite is true: the more Atheists a nation produces the
>> >> >>> more murder and crime explodes. From Darwinism to the Holocaust to the
>> >> >>> great Communist Atheist regimes of the 20th century: Atheists believe
>> >> >>> murder is moral and that sin and evil do not exist.
>> >> >>> Ray
>> >> >> Remind what's the proportion of atheists in prison populations
>> >> >> compared to the proportion of atheists in the general population of
>> >> >> the US?
>>
>> >> > Persons who commit crime, get arrested, convicted and sent to prison
>> >> > are all Atheists (100 percent). While in prison a large amount cease
>> >> > backsliding or come to Christ and get saved. Upon release some
>> >> > backslide into Atheism again. Repeat process.
>>
>> >> > The point is: when committing crimes persons are Atheist, devil
>> >> > worshippers, they have ceased resisting temptation. While in prison
>> >> > they are, for the most part, Christians or Theists, striving to walk
>> >> > with Christ or their God.
>>
>> >> > Of course ***I could*** support everything seen above from the Bible.
>>
>> >> Indeed. I suspect that's the only way that it *could* be supported.
>>
>> >> <snip>- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >Yes, the highest and most respected source of all time: God's eternal
>> >word.
>>
>> Show us what God said. There's no evidence that the Bible has anything
>> to do with God.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Do a Bible Gateway search of phrases like "And the LORD said" or "and
>God said."
All written by primitive man.
>Ray
--
Bob.
You have not been charged for this lesson - learn from it rather than
continuing to make a fool of yourself.
Ye Old One
<pyram...@yahoo.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>On Dec 15, 2:06�pm, heekster <heeks...@ifiwxtc.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:31:51 -0800 (PST), Ray Martinez
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On Dec 13, 6:20�pm, Jason Spaceman <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org>
>> >Until both 3 page texts are available to compare side by side the
>> >charge of plagiarism is unsupported.
>>
>> >Various sites offering the Guffey text, while indicating an ability to
>> >read all three pages and entire text, actually only allow access to
>> >the first page. And as far as I can tell the Comfort text is not
>> >available on-line.
>>
>> >IF Ray Comfort did commit plagiarism then I will be the first to
>> >condemn him. If he did not then the charge is typical Atheist slander
>> >of a Theist.
>>
>> Slander is spoken, libel is written.
>>
>> The only thing typical here, is your illiteracy.
>>
>> Get an education, or at least a cheap dictionary.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Slander is the correct generic term,
For the umpteenth time, no it isn't you illiterate moron.
> representing the general concept
>of deliberate and malicious misrepresentation.
>
>I have noticed that all of the Darwinists that frequent this news
>group to be completely ignorant of this **basic fact.**
The only one showing his ignorance is you Dishonest Ray.
>Could we
>expect anything else from persons who think apes morphed into men over
>the course of millions of years?
Man is an ape, and that (sadly) includes creationists like you
Dishonest Ray.
>
>Ray
--
Bob.
If brains were taxed, you would get a rebate.
Ye Old One
<pyram...@yahoo.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>On Dec 15, 6:36�pm, Baron Bodissey <mct5...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > Slander is the correct generic term, representing the general concept
>> > of deliberate and malicious misrepresentation.
>>
>> > I have noticed that all of the Darwinists that frequent this news
>> > group to be completely ignorant of this **basic fact.** Could we
>> > expect anything else from persons who think apes morphed into men over
>> > the course of millions of years?
>>
>> > Ray
>>
>> Wrong, as usual: "In law, defamation�also called calumny,
>> vilification, slander (for spoken words), and libel (for written or
>> otherwise published words)�is the communication of a statement that
>> makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may
>> give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a
>> negative image. It is usually, but not always,[1] a requirement that
>> this claim be false and that the publication is communicated to
>> someone other than the person defamed (the claimant)."
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
>>
>> I know ya'll don't give a crap about facts, but it is SO easy to look
>> something up that you really have no excuse. It seems you are ignorant
>> of this **basic fact**.
>>
>> Baron Bodissey
>> Back off, man, I�m a scientist!
>> � � � � � Ghostbusters- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>This reply might establish the existence of other terms that also
>define or describe the general concept at issue.
>
>Ray
The reply corrected your error. An error that many others, including
myself, have pointed out to you many times. Why do you continue to
exhibit your illiteracy by making the same old error over and over
again?
Ye Old One
<pyram...@yahoo.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>On Dec 15, 6:38�pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Ray Martinez wrote:
>> > On Dec 15, 6:09 pm, haiku jones <575jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> >> Um...am I the only one here who's wondering how many
>> >> neurons you have to strangle at birth to decide that
>> >> atheists -- who don't believe in god, angels, ghosts,
>> >> imps, demons, dragons, or the Loch Ness monster
>> >> �-- worship the "devil"?
>>
>> > Atheism is caused by the effects of dualism.
>>
>> > Your comment misses the point and assumes devil worship cannot occur
>> > unless acknowledgement of existence has taken place. According to the
>> > Bible everyone since the Fall is born a devil worshipper
>> > automatically. The Bible does not debate the fairness of this, it
>> > simply declares it so. The Bible also says if ***any*** man come to
>> > Christ he is a new creature. The Bible does not debate the fairness of
>> > this, it simply declares it so.
>>
>> I'm not saying that you're wrong, Ray, but you have been wrong about the
>> Bible before so I'm not taking any chances. Could you please cite me the
>> appropriate verse(s) that support your claim above? Thanks. I appreciate it.
>
>These comments recognize my Biblical expertise
You don't have any.
> and the need of my
>enemies to counter that perception.
>
>Ray
--
Bob.
Greg G.
> On Dec 15, 2:59�pm, guscubed <james.prenderg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > On Dec 14, 8:16 am, Desertphile <desertph...@invalid-address.net>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 19:04:49 -0800 (PST), Ron O <rokim...@cox.net>
> > > > wrote:
>
>
> > > > > QUOTE:
> > > > > According to local experts on intellectual property law, plagiarism
> > > > > can be more an ethical matter than a legal one. Were an academic like
> > > > > Guffey to do what Comfort did, it could potentially cost him his job.
> > > > > The website of Comfort s Living Waters ministry says, An angry
> > > > > backlash from atheists has prompted best-selling author Ray Comfort to
> > > > > stop answering questions about [the book]. Guffey says he believes
> > > > > this discrepancy encapsulates the different standards to which
> > > > > scientists and their religious critics hold themselves.
> > > > > END QUOTE:
>
> > > > Rev Comfort wants people to believe that only atheists object to
> > > > his lies and plagerism; Rev Comfort appears to believe, or at
> > > > least wishes people to believe, that atheists hold the higher
> > > > ethical and moral high ground.
>
> > > > In that, studies within the USA and studies among similar
> > > > countries show Rev Comfort is correct: the more atheists a state
> > > > in the USA has, the fewer crimes; the more atheists a country has,
> > > > the fewer crimes and the higher standard of living. But I doubt
> > > > Rev Comfort meant to tell the truth about this.
>
> > > > Seems to be one of the requirements for being a Fundamentalist
> > > > Christian is a total lack of morality and ethics. Rev Comfort
> > > > certainly offers yet another data point for this observation.
>
> > > > Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
>
> > > Just the opposite is true: the more Atheists a nation produces the
> > > more murder and crime explodes. From Darwinism to the Holocaust to the
> > > great Communist Atheist regimes of the 20th century: Atheists believe
> > > murder is moral and that sin and evil do not exist.
>
> > > Ray
>
> > Remind what's the proportion of atheists in prison populations
> > compared to the proportion of atheists in the general population of
> > the US?
>
> Persons who commit crime, get arrested, convicted and sent to prison
> are all Atheists (100 percent). While in prison a large amount cease
> backsliding or come to Christ and get saved. Upon release some
> backslide into Atheism again. Repeat process.
Your original claim that murder and crime explodes as the rate of
atheism increases. That is in opposition to the facts.
Let's look at the continental United States. The number following the
state name is the number of violent crimes per 100,000 in population
according to the 2006 stats of the US Census Bureau. The last number
shows the percent of the state's population that claims to be
irreligious, according to the 2008 American Religious Identification
Survey. Notice all the Bible Belt states near the top of the list. The
top five states in irreligiousity rank in the lower half of violent
crime rates. The top three are in the bottom ten in crime figures.
1. South Carolina 766 10%
2. Tennessee 760 9%
3. Nevada 742 24%
4. Florida 712 14%
5. Louisiana 698 8%
6. Delaware 682 23%
7. Maryland 679 13%
8. New Mexico 643 16%
9. Michigan 562 16%
10. Arkansas 552 8%
11. Missouri 546 14%
12. Illinois 542 13%
13. California 533 18%
14. Texas 516 12%
15. Arizona 501 17%
16. Oklahoma 497 11%
17. North Carolina 476 10%
18. Georgia 471 9%
19. Massachusetts 447 22%
20. Pennsylvania 439 15%
21. New York 435 14%
22. Alabama 425 11%
23. Kansas 425 11%
24. Colorado 392 21%
25. New Jersey 352 15%
26. Ohio 350 17%
27. Washington 346 25%
28. Indiana 315 15%
29. Minnesota 312 12%
30. Mississippi 299 5%
31. Wisconsin 284 15%
32. Iowa 284 15%
33. Virginia 282 15%
34. Nebraska 282 17%
35. Connecticut 281 14%
36. Oregon 280 24%
37. West Virginia 280 15%
38. Kentucky 263 13%
39. Montana 254 21%
40. Idaho 247 23%
41. Wyoming 240 28%
42. Rhode Island 228 19%
43. Utah 224 14%
44. South Dakota 171 12%
45. New Hampshire 139 29%
46. Vermont 137 34%
47. North Dakota 128 7%
48. Maine 116 25%
http://www.census.gov/statab/ranks/rank21.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_percentage_of_population_claiming_no_religion
Ye Old One
<pyram...@yahoo.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>On Dec 15, 6:09�pm, haiku jones <575jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 15, 6:59�pm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Dec 15, 3:48�pm, All-Seeing-I <allseei...@usa.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > On Dec 15, 12:31�pm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > On Dec 13, 6:20�pm, Jason Spaceman <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org>
>> > > > Until both 3 page texts are available to compare side by side the
>> > > > charge of plagiarism is unsupported.
>>
>> > > > Various sites offering the Guffey text, while indicating an ability to
>> > > > read all three pages and entire text, actually only allow access to
>> > > > the first page. And as far as I can tell the Comfort text is not
>> > > > available on-line.
>>
>> > > > IF Ray Comfort did commit plagiarism then I will be the first to
>> > > > condemn him. If he did not then the charge is typical Atheist slander
>> > > > of a Theist.
>>
>> > > > Ray- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > > Atheist = drama queen- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > Drama queens are basically harmless, not so with the Atheist. He is a
>> > vicious liar, devil worshipper, deceiver who is known to wear sheeps
>> > clothing (like a Ken Miller) seeking the total destruction of the
>> > Bible, Christianity and Theism.
>>
>> > Ray
>>
>> Um...am I the only one here who's wondering how many
>> neurons you have to strangle at birth to decide that
>> atheists -- who don't believe in god, angels, ghosts,
>> imps, demons, dragons, or the Loch Ness monster
>> �-- worship the "devil"?
>>
>> Haiku Jone- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Atheism is caused by the effects of dualism.
Creationism is caused by the effects of poor education and/or mental
deficiency.
>
>Your comment misses the point and assumes devil worship cannot occur
>unless acknowledgement of existence has taken place. According to the
>Bible everyone since the Fall is born a devil worshipper
Cite?
>
>automatically. The Bible does not debate the fairness of this, it
>simply declares it so. The Bible also says if ***any*** man come to
>Christ he is a new creature. The Bible does not debate the fairness of
>this, it simply declares it so.
Fairy stories.
>
>Ray
>
--
Bob.
"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product
of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still
primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No
interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."
- letter from Albert Einstein to Eric Gutkind, Jan. 3, 1954.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/may/13/peopleinscience.religion
Ye Old One
<pyram...@yahoo.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>On Dec 15, 7:12�pm, haiku jones <575jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Your comment misses the point and assumes devil worship cannot occur
>> > unless acknowledgement of existence has taken place. According to the
>> > Bible everyone since the Fall is born a devil worshipper automatically.
>>
>> The infield fly rule applies when there are fewer than
>> two outs, and there is a force play at third base
>> (runners on first and second base, or bases loaded).
>> Under these conditions, if a fly ball is hit into fair
>> territory and the umpire perceives that an infielder
>> using ordinary effort would be able to catch the ball,
>> the umpire will call the batter automatically out. Even
>> if the infielder later drops the ball, it makes no
>> difference. As soon as the umpire makes the call, the
>> batter is out and must leave the field.
>>
>> While the fairness of this rather contrived
>> edict can be debated, there is no denying
>> that it is so.
>>
>> > The Bible does not debate the fairness of this, it
>> > simply declares it so.
>>
>> Well, you buy one of those cheap Chinese
>> knockoffs, that's what you get.
>>
>> My Bible says no such thing.
>>
>
>Why is it that Bibles owned by Atheists are always missing many pages?
Evidence?
Desertphile
wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 19:12:26 -0800 (PST), Ray Martinez
> <pyram...@yahoo.com> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
>
> >On Dec 15, 6:38�pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >> Ray Martinez wrote:
> >> > On Dec 15, 6:09 pm, haiku jones <575jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> >> Um...am I the only one here who's wondering how many
> >> >> neurons you have to strangle at birth to decide that
> >> >> atheists -- who don't believe in god, angels, ghosts,
> >> >> imps, demons, dragons, or the Loch Ness monster
> >> >> �-- worship the "devil"?
> >> > Atheism is caused by the effects of dualism.
Atheism is caused by being born.
> >> > Your comment misses the point and assumes devil worship cannot occur
> >> > unless acknowledgement of existence has taken place. According to the
> >> > Bible everyone since the Fall is born a devil worshipper
> >> > automatically. The Bible does not debate the fairness of this, it
> >> > simply declares it so. The Bible also says if ***any*** man come to
> >> > Christ he is a new creature. The Bible does not debate the fairness of
> >> > this, it simply declares it so.
> >>
> >> I'm not saying that you're wrong, Ray, but you have been wrong about the
> >> Bible before so I'm not taking any chances. Could you please cite me the
> >> appropriate verse(s) that support your claim above? Thanks. I appreciate it.
> >These comments recognize my Biblical expertise
> You don't have any.
And "cannibal" comes from the words "Canaan Baal."
--
Bob T.
> On Dec 14, 8:16�am, Desertphile <desertph...@invalid-address.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 19:04:49 -0800 (PST), Ron O <rokim...@cox.net>
> > wrote:
>
>
> > > QUOTE:
> > > According to local experts on intellectual property law, plagiarism
> > > can be more an ethical matter than a legal one. Were an academic like
> > > Guffey to do what Comfort did, it could potentially cost him his job.
> > > The website of Comfort s Living Waters ministry says, An angry
> > > backlash from atheists has prompted best-selling author Ray Comfort to
> > > stop answering questions about [the book]. Guffey says he believes
> > > this discrepancy encapsulates the different standards to which
> > > scientists and their religious critics hold themselves.
> > > END QUOTE:
>
> > Rev Comfort wants people to believe that only atheists object to
> > his lies and plagerism; Rev Comfort appears to believe, or at
> > least wishes people to believe, that atheists hold the higher
> > ethical and moral high ground.
>
> > In that, studies within the USA and studies among similar
> > countries show Rev Comfort is correct: the more atheists a state
> > in the USA has, the fewer crimes; the more atheists a country has,
> > the fewer crimes and the higher standard of living. But I doubt
> > Rev Comfort meant to tell the truth about this.
>
> > Seems to be one of the requirements for being a Fundamentalist
> > Christian is a total lack of morality and ethics. Rev Comfort
> > certainly offers yet another data point for this observation.
>
> > Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
>
> Just the opposite is true: the more Atheists a nation produces the
> more murder and crime explodes.
Which explains the exploding crime rates in Scandinavia, eh? Damn,
you're stupid.
> From Darwinism to the Holocaust to the
> great Communist Atheist regimes of the 20th century: Atheists believe
> murder is moral and that sin and evil do not exist.
I am an atheist, and I do not think that murder is moral. You are a
theist - why do you think that lying is moral?
- Bob T
- Bob T.
Tim Norfolk
> On Dec 15, 6:09�pm, haiku jones <575jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 15, 6:59�pm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 15, 3:48�pm, All-Seeing-I <allseei...@usa.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 15, 12:31�pm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Dec 13, 6:20�pm, Jason Spaceman <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > From the article:
> > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > Stan Guffey had been waiting months for Nov. 18 to arrive. On that
> > > > > > day, Christian groups handed out free copies of a 150th-anniversary
> > > > > > across the country. Guffey is a biology lecturer at the University of
> > > > > > Tennessee who earned his doctorate studying genetic differences
> > > > > > between northern and southern populations of brook trout. When he
> > > > > > heard talk outside his office about people handing out books on the UT
>
> > > > > > �Would you like me to autograph this?� Guffey asked the distributors,
> > > > > > telling them he is one of the authors, albeit unacknowledged. Since
> > > > > > spring, e-mails had been trickling in alerting him to extensive
> > > > > > wrote in 1997 for UT�s first Darwin Day event. He wrote the biography,
> > > > > > handed out on campus each February and available through the Darwin
> > > > > > was a devil, to make him human.�
>
> > > > > > It seems to have appealed to New Zealand-born evangelist Ray Comfort,
> > > > > > reissue of Darwin�s treatise on evolution. Bridge-Logos lists dozens
> > > > > > of titles by Comfort in its catalog, including some co-authored by
> > > > > > actor Kirk Cameron, who also co-hosts a television series with
> > > > > > Comfort. Guffey is not acknowledged in the book, but the introduction
> > > > > > begins with his biography of Darwin. A few sentences were chopped or
> > > > > > reworded, but most of the passage appears taken directly from Guffey.
>
> > > > > > Read it athttp://www.metropulse.com/news/2009/dec/02/ut-professor-considers-leg...
>
> > > > > > J. Spaceman
>
> > > > > charge of plagiarism is unsupported.
>
> > > > > Various sites offering the Guffey text, while indicating an ability to
> > > > > read all three pages and entire text, actually only allow access to
> > > > > the first page. And as far as I can tell the Comfort text is not
> > > > > available on-line.
>
> > > > > IF Ray Comfort did commit plagiarism then I will be the first to
> > > > > condemn him. If he did not then the charge is typical Atheist slander
> > > > > of a Theist.
>
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > vicious liar, devil worshipper, deceiver who is known to wear sheeps
> > > clothing (like a Ken Miller) seeking the total destruction of the
> > > Bible, Christianity and Theism.
>
> > > Ray
>
> > neurons you have to strangle at birth to decide that
> > atheists -- who don't believe in god, angels, ghosts,
> > imps, demons, dragons, or the Loch Ness monster
>
> > Haiku Jone- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
>
> unless acknowledgement of existence has taken place. According to the
> Bible everyone since the Fall is born a devil worshipper
> automatically. The Bible does not debate the fairness of this, it
> simply declares it so. The Bible also says if ***any*** man come to
> Christ he is a new creature. The Bible does not debate the fairness of
> this, it simply declares it so.
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
And 'worship' is an active verb, meaning that your statement is full
of crap.
Timothy Little
> On Dec 15, 2:59�pm, guscubed <james.prenderg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > On Dec 14, 8:16 am, Desertphile <desertph...@invalid-address.net>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Sun, 13 Dec 2009 19:04:49 -0800 (PST), Ron O <rokim...@cox.net>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > From the article:
> > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > Stan Guffey had been waiting months for Nov. 18 to arrive. On that
> > > > > > day, Christian groups handed out free copies of a 150th-anniversary
> > > > > > across the country. Guffey is a biology lecturer at the University of
> > > > > > Tennessee who earned his doctorate studying genetic differences
> > > > > > between northern and southern populations of brook trout. When he
> > > > > > heard talk outside his office about people handing out books on the UT
>
> > > > > > Would you like me to autograph this? Guffey asked the distributors,
> > > > > > telling them he is one of the authors, albeit unacknowledged. Since
> > > > > > spring, e-mails had been trickling in alerting him to extensive
> > > > > > wrote in 1997 for UT s firstDarwinDay event. He wrote the biography,
> > > > > > handed out on campus each February and available through theDarwin
> > > > > > was a devil, to make him human.
>
> > > > > > who wrote a 50-page introduction for Florida publisher Bridge-Logos
> > > > > > of titles by Comfort in its catalog, including some co-authored by
> > > > > > actor Kirk Cameron, who also co-hosts a television series with
> > > > > > Comfort. Guffey is not acknowledged in the book, but the introduction
> > > > > > shortened, and a paragraph onDarwins youth was rearranged and
> > > > > > reworded, but most of the passage appears taken directly from Guffey.
>
> > > > > > Read it athttp://www.metropulse.com/news/2009/dec/02/ut-professor-considers-leg...
>
> > > > > > J. Spaceman
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
>
> > > Just the opposite is true: the more Atheists a nation produces the
> > > great Communist Atheist regimes of the 20th century: Atheists believe
> > > murder is moral and that sin and evil do not exist.
>
>
> > Remind what's the proportion of atheists in prison populations
> > compared to the proportion of atheists in the general population of
> > the US?
>
> Persons who commit crime, get arrested, convicted and sent to prison
> are all Atheists (100 percent). While in prison a large amount cease
> backsliding or come to Christ and get saved. Upon release some
> backslide into Atheism again. Repeat process.
>
> worshippers, they have ceased resisting temptation. While in prison
> they are, for the most part, Christians or Theists, striving to walk
> with Christ or their God.
>
> Of course ***I could*** support everything seen above from the Bible.
>
> > monopoly on morality.
>
> There is more morality in any given Church than any lab or classroom
> or board room or court room etc.etc.
>
> > I sincerely hope that you do not ascribe to
> > biblical morals, apart from being largely contradictory, a lot of them
> > would land you in prison in today's more enlightened society. Stoning
> > to death for adultery anyone? Death for working on the sabbath? "All I
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
>
> Ray
Well, by that definition, Jesus would be atheist then, right? He
committed a crime, was arrested and tried, convicted and
sentenced...
haiku jones
haiku jones
> haiku jones wrote:
> >> <snip>
>
> >>>> No, can't support it using any real world data because the real world
> >>>> data likely disagrees with your conclusions.
> >>> Your so called "real world data" identifies most prison inmates as
> >>> "Christians." I accepted this general fact while pointing out that
> >>> these same persons were Atheists before incarceration. �A person is
> >>> not a Christian when committing murder, rape, or robbery. They are
> >>> Atheist----acting like Christ does not exist.
>
> >> I want to be clear about this. Are you suggesting that Christians
> >> like a Christian cannot *be* a Christian?
>
> > onlookers aren't buying it. �Specifically he tries to claim that
> > acting as if Christ does not exist is identical to not believing
> > that Christ does exist.
>
> > Sort of like saying that if I stole cookies from the cookie
> > jar, I was an a-momist, because I was acting as if my
> > mom did not exist, and would punish me. �Pretty
> > silly, eh?
>
> Ray has some pretty strange ideas. In this case, it looks like he's
> saying that in fact Christians don't need to be forgiven their sins
> because no Christian ever actually commits a sin. If a sin is committed,
> the person instantly reverts to atheist, and as far as I know, atheists
> can't sin because sin is a transgression against God's dictates and
> atheists have no belief in the existence of God. Man, this hurts my brain...
Bertrand Russell mentioned this barber who might be able to help
you...
>
> (You're new here, aren't you? It might be wise not to use a- or anti-
> prefixes on words. Ray thinks that these prefixes mean the same thing,
Huh? Wow...
> and he's likely to go off on one of his weird folk etymological rants if
> he sees them.)
Well, that could be fun. "And in the opposite corner, weighing
in at eight hundred pounds, the Oxford English Dictionary!"
Haiku Jones
> <snip>
johnetho...@yahoo.com
> On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 18:50:35 -0800 (PST), Ray Martinez
>
>
>
> >On Dec 15, 6:36�pm, Baron Bodissey <mct5...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> On Dec 15, 8:50�pm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > On Dec 15, 2:06�pm, heekster <heeks...@ifiwxtc.net> wrote:
>
> >> > > On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:31:51 -0800 (PST), Ray Martinez
>
> >> > > <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > > >wrote:
> >> > > >> From the article:
> >> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > > >> Stan Guffey had been waiting months for Nov. 18 to arrive. On that
> >> > > >> day, Christian groups handed out free copies of a 150th-anniversary
> >> > > >> across the country. Guffey is a biology lecturer at the University of
> >> > > >> Tennessee who earned his doctorate studying genetic differences
> >> > > >> between northern and southern populations of brook trout. When he
> >> > > >> heard talk outside his office about people handing out books on the UT
>
> >> > > >> �Would you like me to autograph this?� Guffey asked the distributors,
> >> > > >> telling them he is one of the authors, albeit unacknowledged. Since
> >> > > >> spring, e-mails had been trickling in alerting him to extensive
> >> > > >> wrote in 1997 for UT�s first Darwin Day event. He wrote the biography,
> >> > > >> handed out on campus each February and available through the Darwin
> >> > > >> was a devil, to make him human.�
>
> >> > > >> It seems to have appealed to New Zealand-born evangelist Ray Comfort,
> >> > > >> reissue of Darwin�s treatise on evolution. Bridge-Logos lists dozens
> >> > > >> of titles by Comfort in its catalog, including some co-authored by
> >> > > >> actor Kirk Cameron, who also co-hosts a television series with
> >> > > >> Comfort. Guffey is not acknowledged in the book, but the introduction
> >> > > >> begins with his biography of Darwin. A few sentences were chopped or
> >> > > >> reworded, but most of the passage appears taken directly from Guffey.
>
> >> > > >> Read it athttp://www.metropulse.com/news/2009/dec/02/ut-professor-considers-leg...
>
> >> > > >> J. Spaceman
>
> >> > > >Until both 3 page texts are available to compare side by side the
> >> > > >charge of plagiarism is unsupported.
>
> >> > > >Various sites offering the Guffey text, while indicating an ability to
> >> > > >read all three pages and entire text, actually only allow access to
> >> > > >the first page. And as far as I can tell the Comfort text is not
> >> > > >available on-line.
>
> >> > > >IF Ray Comfort did commit plagiarism then I will be the first to
> >> > > >condemn him. If he did not then the charge is typical Atheist slander
> >> > > >of a Theist.
>
> >> > > Slander is spoken, libel is written.
>
> >> > > The only thing typical here, is your illiteracy.
>
> >> > > Get an education, or at least a cheap dictionary.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> >> > Slander is the correct generic term, representing the general concept
> >> > of deliberate and malicious misrepresentation.
>
> >> > I have noticed that all of the Darwinists that frequent this news
> >> > group to be completely ignorant of this **basic fact.** Could we
> >> > expect anything else from persons who think apes morphed into men over
> >> > the course of millions of years?
>
> >> > Ray
>
> >> vilification, slander (for spoken words), and libel (for written or
> >> makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may
> >> give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a
> >> negative image. It is usually, but not always,[1] a requirement that
> >> this claim be false and that the publication is communicated to
> >> someone other than the person defamed (the claimant)."
>
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation
>
> >> I know ya'll don't give a crap about facts, but it is SO easy to look
> >> something up that you really have no excuse. It seems you are ignorant
> >> of this **basic fact**.
>
> >> Baron Bodissey
> >> � � � � � Ghostbusters- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >This reply might establish the existence of other terms that also
> >define or describe the general concept at issue.
>
> >Ray
>
> The reply corrected your error. An error that many others, including
> myself, have pointed out to you many times. Why do you continue to
> exhibit your illiteracy by making the same old error over and over
> again?
>
> --
> Bob.
>
> You have not been charged for this lesson - learn from it rather than
> continuing to make a fool of yourself.
It's against his religion to tell the truth about anything. He is a
devoted follower of Satan, the Father of Lies, and worships him by
lying as much as possible. I expect he's hoping for an important staff
position in hell.
johnetho...@yahoo.com
> On Dec 15, 6:38�pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Ray Martinez wrote:
> > > On Dec 15, 6:09 pm, haiku jones <575jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > <snip>
>
> > >> Um...am I the only one here who's wondering how many
> > >> neurons you have to strangle at birth to decide that
> > >> atheists -- who don't believe in god, angels, ghosts,
> > >> imps, demons, dragons, or the Loch Ness monster
> > >> �-- worship the "devil"?
>
> > > Atheism is caused by the effects of dualism.
>
> > > unless acknowledgement of existence has taken place. According to the
> > > Bible everyone since the Fall is born a devil worshipper
> > > automatically. The Bible does not debate the fairness of this, it
> > > simply declares it so. The Bible also says if ***any*** man come to
> > > Christ he is a new creature. The Bible does not debate the fairness of
> > > this, it simply declares it so.
>
> > I'm not saying that you're wrong, Ray, but you have been wrong about the
> > Bible before so I'm not taking any chances. Could you please cite me the
> > appropriate verse(s) that support your claim above? Thanks. I appreciate it.
>
> enemies to counter that perception.
>
> Ray
Not at all. They ask you to support your claim about what the Bible
says, which you didn't do.
Tim Norfolk
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ah, but he didn't sin, he just committed a crime! A better question
would be Ray's answer to the people who shoot abortion doctors.
johnetho...@yahoo.com
> On Dec 15, 7:12�pm, haiku jones <575jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
<snip>
>
> > > The Bible does not debate the fairness of this, it
> > > simply declares it so.
>
> > Well, you buy one of those cheap Chinese
> > knockoffs, that's what you get.
>
> > My Bible says no such thing.
>
> Why is it that Bibles owned by Atheists are always missing many pages?
Probably because they only include the ones that are actually there,
not ones that other people invent or hallucinate.
<snip>
Caranx latus
Oh no, you don't. I know how these kinds of things always work out:
Barber How... how would you like it, sir?
Customer Just short back and sides please.
Barber How do you do that?
Customer Well it's just... ordinary short back and sides.
Barber It's not a ... razor cut? (suddenly) Razor, razor, cut, cut,
blood, spurt, artery, murder... (controlling himself) Oh thank God,
thank God. (sigh of relief) It's just a scissors.
Customer Yes... (laughs, thinking the barber must be having a little
joke)
Barber You wouldn't rather just have it combed, would you sir?
Customer I beg your pardon?
Barber You wouldn't rather forget all about it?
Customer No, no, no, I want it cut.
At the word cut barber winces.
Barber Cut, cut, cut, blood, spurt, artery, murder, Hitchcock,
Psycho... right sir ... well ... (swallows hard) I'll just get
everything ready.
> > (You're new here, aren't you? It might be wise not to use a- or anti-
> > prefixes on words. Ray thinks that these prefixes mean the same thing,
>
> Huh? �Wow...
>
> > and he's likely to go off on one of his weird folk etymological rants if
> > he sees them.)
>
> Well, that could be fun. �"And in the opposite corner, weighing
> in at eight hundred pounds, the Oxford English Dictionary!"
It's more *funny* than *fun*. You have to be very careful around Ray.
Many of the words that he uses don't have the meanings that you think
they should. In this very thread, for example, his use of the word
"atheist" is idiosyncratic. Also watch out for anytime he uses an
adjective in front of words like "logic" or "fact". When he does that,
it's virtually always code for something that Ray would like everyone
to accept as logic or fact without question, but which is illogical or
nonfactual. There's a Ray Martinez Dictionary online somewhere:
<http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/b2ee3a860352d509?
hl=en>
that is worth a read. It's been carefully constructed from things that
Ray actually said. It's a couple of years out of date, but it will
give you the flavor of the man.
haiku jones
Which I cannot seem to avoid reading as "Canis latrans"
<kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Heh. Never saw that one before.
>
> > > (You're new here, aren't you? It might be wise not to use a- or anti-
> > > prefixes on words. Ray thinks that these prefixes mean the same thing,
>
> > Huh? �Wow...
>
> > > and he's likely to go off on one of his weird folk etymological rants if
> > > he sees them.)
>
> > Well, that could be fun. �"And in the opposite corner, weighing
> > in at eight hundred pounds, the Oxford English Dictionary!"
>
> It's more *funny* than *fun*. You have to be very careful around Ray.
> Many of the words that he uses don't have the meanings that you think
> they should. In this very thread, for example, his use of the word
> "atheist" is idiosyncratic. Also watch out for anytime he uses an
> adjective in front of words like "logic" or "fact". When he does that,
> it's virtually always code for something that Ray would like everyone
> to accept as logic or fact without question, but which is illogical or
> nonfactual. There's a Ray Martinez Dictionary online somewhere:
>
> <http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/b2ee3a860352d509?
> hl=en>
>
Whoa! That's absolutely astonishing! I don't know who "Tristan
Miller"
would be, but I think I'm in love. Very well done.
> that is worth a read. It's been carefully constructed from things that
> Ray actually said. It's a couple of years out of date, but it will
> give you the flavor of the man.
I surrender in advance. Ray's invaded and taken over
command of the language while we slept. Resistance
is futile. Orwell is vindicated. All fuck Ray (which
actually means "all hail")
Thanks for that.
Haiku Jones
SkyEyes
> Why use a book of bronze age fairy tales for anything other than shit
> paper?
Let me save you some discomfort (should it ever come to that): most
bible paper is *not* good for toilet functions. It's not absorbent
enough, and some inks can be...irritating. To put it mildly.
However, many bibles are printed on paper that makes good joint-
rolling material.
And if your Scofield Reference Bible - you know, the one your parents
gave you when you were 14 - is printed on rice paper and has a genuine
lambskin binding, it also makes *fine* dog food for that pissed off
little Greek mutt you brought home last weekend. I suggest you remove
the satin ribbon marker-thingie first, however.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
skyeyes nine at cox dot net
Ray Martinez
> >> Ray Martinez wrote:
> >>> On Dec 15, 6:39 pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >> <snip>
>
> >>>> No, can't support it using any real world data because the real world
> >>>> data likely disagrees with your conclusions.
> >>> Your so called "real world data" identifies most prison inmates as
> >>> "Christians." I accepted this general fact while pointing out that
> >>> these same persons were Atheists before incarceration. �A person is
> >>> not a Christian when committing murder, rape, or robbery. They are
> >>> Atheist----acting like Christ does not exist.
> >> I want to be clear about this. Are you suggesting that Christians
> >> *cannot* sin?
>
> > following Christ.
>
> committed. So that should mean that they aren't Christian at that time.
Yes, makes sense.
> So, if they aren't Christian when the sin is committed, then no
> Christian commits a sin. Perhaps you could clarify your position more
> fully.
>
We were tallking about crimes that cause a person to be sent to
prison. When these sins are committed the person is not a Christian,
but an Atheist.
> >> Or are you suggesting that a person that does not *act*
> >> like a Christian cannot *be* a Christian?
>
> >> Does someone who councils in favor of murder a Christian or not?
>
> You missed this, Ray. Would you mind answering it now?
>
Yeah, I ignored because I have not a clue as to its meaning in the
context of our discussion----that's why I ignored it.
I know of no one who "councils in favor of murder" except Atheists.
This would include "Islamic" terrorists posing as Muslims.
> >> One of the widely recognizes definitions of what it means to be
> >> Christian is provided by the Nicene Creed, which you can find online.
>
> > The Nicene Creed is not a definition of Christianity. It is a
> > declaration of beliefs about God and Christ and His Church.
>
> It was always my understanding that a person who could recite the Nicene
> Creed *and mean it* should be considered a Christian. How am I wrong
> about that?
>
How do you determine who is serious and means it?
Hitler claimed to be a Christian in 1922----I guess you believe him
too. Ken Miller claims to be a Christian. Anyone can claim to be a
Christian. Hitler's actions proves he was an Atheist. The support of
Miller by Atheists proves Miller is an Atheist because Atheists would
never support a real Christian.
> >> There is *nothing* in it about how a Christian should *act*: it only
> >> discusses what a Christian should *believe*.
>
> > Exactly what I said above.
>
> >> I cannot see any reason why
> >> a criminal cannot hold those beliefs and yet still be able to commit a
> >> crime.
>
> > He is not a follower of Christ while committing crime. He is acting
> > like Christ does not exist----he is an Atheist.
>
> Therefore only atheists commit crimes? Is that what you're saying?
>
Only Atheists commit crimes that send a person to prison (our
context). Of course there are exceptions. Like Christians who are
persecuted for being a real Christian and set up on fabricated
charges.
Ray
> >>> Again, your so called
> >>> "real world data" probably does not take this fact into account.
> >> That is likely true, but only because most of the criminals would
> >> probably have identified themselves as Christians at the time that the
> >> crime was committed.
>
> > Mistakenly, yes, I agree. But not during the act itself. I doubt any
> > criminal would say that he was a Christian during the commission of a
> > crime. Logic says the exact opposite: he was an Atheist, devil
> > worshipper.
>
> Belief in the devil requires acceptance that the Christian mythos is
> true as far as I know, because the devil is ultimately a Christian
> concept. Atheists *don't* accept that Christianity is true, so I doubt
> that atheists worship the devil. Certainly I don't.- Hide quoted text -
heekster
<pyram...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Dec 15, 2:06�pm, heekster <heeks...@ifiwxtc.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:31:51 -0800 (PST), Ray Martinez
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >On Dec 13, 6:20�pm, Jason Spaceman <notrea...@jspaceman.homelinux.org>
>> >wrote:
>> >> From the article:
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> Stan Guffey had been waiting months for Nov. 18 to arrive. On that
>> >> day, Christian groups handed out free copies of a 150th-anniversary
>> >> edition of Charles Darwin�s Origin of Species on college campuses
>> >> across the country. Guffey is a biology lecturer at the University of
>> >> Tennessee who earned his doctorate studying genetic differences
>> >> between northern and southern populations of brook trout. When he
>> >> heard talk outside his office about people handing out books on the UT
>> >> plaza, Guffey says, �I hot-footed it over to get myself a copy.�
>>
>> >> �Would you like me to autograph this?� Guffey asked the distributors,
>> >> telling them he is one of the authors, albeit unacknowledged. Since
>> >> spring, e-mails had been trickling in alerting him to extensive
>> >> similarities between the first three pages of the edition�s
>> >> introduction and �A Brief History of Charles Darwin,� which Guffey
>> >> wrote in 1997 for UT�s first Darwin Day event. He wrote the biography,
>> >> handed out on campus each February and available through the Darwin
>> >> Day website, �to make Darwin accessible to people who thought Darwin
>> >> was a devil, to make him human.�
>>
>> >> It seems to have appealed to New Zealand-born evangelist Ray Comfort,
>> >> who wrote a 50-page introduction for Florida publisher Bridge-Logos�
>> >> reissue of Darwin�s treatise on evolution. Bridge-Logos lists dozens
>> >> of titles by Comfort in its catalog, including some co-authored by
>> >> actor Kirk Cameron, who also co-hosts a television series with
>> >> Comfort. Guffey is not acknowledged in the book, but the introduction
>> >> begins with his biography of Darwin. A few sentences were chopped or
>> >> shortened, and a paragraph on Darwin�s youth was rearranged and
>> >> reworded, but most of the passage appears taken directly from Guffey.
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------��---
>>
>> >> Read it athttp://www.metropulse.com/news/2009/dec/02/ut-professor-considers-leg...
>>
>> >> J. Spaceman
>>
>> >Until both 3 page texts are available to compare side by side the
>> >charge of plagiarism is unsupported.
>>
>> >Various sites offering the Guffey text, while indicating an ability to
>> >read all three pages and entire text, actually only allow access to
>> >the first page. And as far as I can tell the Comfort text is not
>> >available on-line.
>>
>> >IF Ray Comfort did commit plagiarism then I will be the first to
>> >condemn him. If he did not then the charge is typical Atheist slander
>> >of a Theist.
>>
>> Slander is spoken, libel is written.
>>
>> The only thing typical here, is your illiteracy.
>>
>> Get an education, or at least a cheap dictionary.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Slander is the correct generic term, representing the general concept
>of deliberate and malicious misrepresentation.
>
Incorrect.
Slander is a spoken defamation. Defamation or "defamation of
character" is spoken or written words that falsely and negatively
reflect on a living person's reputation. What you think "slander"
means, is actually the definition of "defamation".
>I have noticed that all of the Darwinists that frequent this news
>group to be completely ignorant of this **basic fact.**
It isn't a fact. It is a misrepresentation. It might even be a lie.
>Could we
>expect anything else from persons who think apes morphed into men over
>the course of millions of years?
>
What has this to do with your painfully obvious illiteracy?
heekster
That was a Burt Reynolds movie from the '70's right?
"Canaan Baal Run"
Desertphile
>> I'm confused. You've said that they are atheists when the sin is
>> committed. So that should mean that they aren't Christian at that time.
> Yes, makes sense.
--
heekster
<pyram...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Dec 15, 6:38�pm, Caranx latus <kar...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> Ray Martinez wrote:
>> > On Dec 15, 6:09 pm, haiku jones <575jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> >> Um...am I the only one here who's wondering how many
>> >> neurons you have to strangle at birth to decide that
>> >> atheists -- who don't believe in god, angels, ghosts,
>> >> imps, demons, dragons, or the Loch Ness monster
>> >> �-- worship the "devil"?
>>
>> > Atheism is caused by the effects of dualism.
>>
>> > Your comment misses the point and assumes devil worship cannot occur
>> > unless acknowledgement of existence has taken place. According to the
>> > Bible everyone since the Fall is born a devil worshipper
>> > automatically. The Bible does not debate the fairness of this, it
>> > simply declares it so. The Bible also says if ***any*** man come to
>> > Christ he is a new creature. The Bible does not debate the fairness of
>> > this, it simply declares it so.
>>
>> I'm not saying that you're wrong, Ray, but you have been wrong about the
>> Bible before so I'm not taking any chances. Could you please cite me the
>> appropriate verse(s) that support your claim above? Thanks. I appreciate it.
>
>These comments recognize my Biblical expertise and the need of my
>enemies to counter that perception.
>
>Ray
Yeah.
Right.
heekster
<pyram...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Dec 15, 7:12�pm, haiku jones <575jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 15, 7:28�pm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Dec 15, 6:09�pm, haiku jones <575jo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > On Dec 15, 6:59�pm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > > On Dec 15, 3:48�pm, All-Seeing-I <allseei...@usa.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > Ray- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > > > > Atheist = drama queen- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > > > Drama queens are basically harmless, not so with the Atheist. He is a
>> > > > vicious liar, devil worshipper, deceiver who is known to wear sheeps
>> > > > clothing (like a Ken Miller) seeking the total destruction of the
>> > > > Bible, Christianity and Theism.
>>
>> > > > Ray
>>
>> > > Um...am I the only one here who's wondering how many
>> > > neurons you have to strangle at birth to decide that
>> > > atheists -- who don't believe in god, angels, ghosts,
>> > > imps, demons, dragons, or the Loch Ness monster
>> > > �-- worship the "devil"?
>>
>> > > Haiku Jone- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > Atheism is caused by the effects of dualism.
>>
>> > Your comment misses the point and assumes devil worship cannot occur
>> > unless acknowledgement of existence has taken place. According to the
>> > Bible everyone since the Fall is born a devil worshipper automatically.
>>
>> The infield fly rule applies when there are fewer than
>> two outs, and there is a force play at third base
>> (runners on first and second base, or bases loaded).
>> Under these conditions, if a fly ball is hit into fair
>> territory and the umpire perceives that an infielder
>> using ordinary effort would be able to catch the ball,
>> the umpire will call the batter automatically out. Even
>> if the infielder later drops the ball, it makes no
>> difference. As soon as the umpire makes the call, the
>> batter is out and must leave the field.
>>
>> While the fairness of this rather contrived
>> edict can be debated, there is no denying
>> that it is so.
>>
>> > The Bible does not debate the fairness of this, it
>> > simply declares it so.
>>
>> Well, you buy one of those cheap Chinese
>> knockoffs, that's what you get.
>>
>> My Bible says no such thing.
>>
>
>Why is it that Bibles owned by Atheists are always missing many pages?
>
>Ray
>
Why is it that the brain of Ray Martinez has such a paucity of
neurons, glial cells, and functional synapses?
Rolf
Ray claims to be a Christian in 2009 and expect us to believe him though his
actions belie his claim.
Ye Old One
>> > Ray- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Atheist = drama queen- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Drama queens are basically harmless, not so with the Atheist. He is a
>vicious liar, devil worshipper, deceiver who is known to wear sheeps
>clothing (like a Ken Miller) seeking the total destruction of the
>Bible, Christianity and Theism.
>
>Ray
You really are a total moron Dishonest Ray.
--
Bob.
If brains were dynamite, you wouldn't have enough to blow your nose.
Desertphile
<heek...@ifiwxtc.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 07:14:26 -0700, Desertphile
> <deser...@invalid-address.net> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 13:54:55 GMT, Ye Old One <use...@mcsuk.net>
> >wrote:
> >> >These comments recognize my Biblical expertise
> >> You don't have any.
> >And "cannibal" comes from the words "Canaan Baal."
> That was a Burt Reynolds movie from the '70's right?
> "Canaan Baal Run"
"I wanna be blessed! Can we be blessed?!"
"Oh, I've got to bless HER!"
"They weren't...."
"Fathers. They were....."
"Mothers!"