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FAO Tony Pagano - Pope John Paul II
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AlwaysAskingQuestions
Apr 11, 2012, 4:04:13 AM4/11/12
to
T Pagano wrote:
[...]
> The claim of mountains of evidence of evidence is urban legend
> (and nonsense).
[...]
> What evidence? I've practically begged the atheists to produce it,
> but it has never been forth coming. The evidence is virtually non
> existent.
So what do you think about Pope John Paul's statement that "The convergence
in the results of these independent studies-which was neither planned nor
sought-constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."
Do you reckon he imagined this evidence or was he just some sort of idiot
who bought the urban legend and nonsense?
[...]
> The claim of mountains of evidence of evidence is urban legend
> (and nonsense).
[...]
> What evidence? I've practically begged the atheists to produce it,
> but it has never been forth coming. The evidence is virtually non
> existent.
So what do you think about Pope John Paul's statement that "The convergence
in the results of these independent studies-which was neither planned nor
sought-constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."
Do you reckon he imagined this evidence or was he just some sort of idiot
who bought the urban legend and nonsense?
Bill
Apr 11, 2012, 5:33:59 AM4/11/12
to
On 11 Apr, 15:04, "AlwaysAskingQuestions"
Yes, Tony, we already know he was not speaking with his infallibility
hat on, but still, do you disagree with him?
hat on, but still, do you disagree with him?
T Pagano
Apr 11, 2012, 10:59:07 AM4/11/12
to
evidence himself. Neither have any of talk.origin's credentialled
academians: Harshman, Elsberry, Okimoto, Lethe, Theobold. And this
is my point.
2. There is an awful lot of gum-flapping by atheists about the
"mountain," but the mountain can never be found. AlwaysAskingQuestions
is apparently under the delusion with this quote that the Pope had
actually investigated the matter himself and found the "mountain."
Nothing could be further from the truth.
3. This quote comes from a speech that the late Pope made to his own
Pontifical Academy of Sciences on Oct 22, 1996. I suspect that
AlwaysAskingQuestions is unaware (intentionally or unintentionally) of
a few facts:
a. The Pope receives most (or likely all) of his advice and
information concerning the state of our scientific knowledge from his
Pontifical Academy of Sciences.
b. Surprisingly the Pontifical Academy of Sciences is
comprised of mostly NON Catholic, secular, atheists. For example, the
famed atheist and theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking is a lifetime
member. Evolution and the "mountain" is what "they" preach. And this
is the advice they provided to Pope John Paul II.
c. In other words in his speech to the members of that body
he was merely repeating the guidance they had given him and little
more.
4. What AlwaysAskingQuestions fails to quote from that speech is that
Pope John Paul II reminded those (mostly atheist) members that the
Catholic Church had long ago (1950) spoken authoritatively through his
predecessor (Pius XII) concerning matters of evolution----specifically
in the authoritative teaching contained in "Humani Generis." He laid
out two conditions in "Humani Generis" which its members summarily
ignored and that document contains at least one piece of Catholic
Doctrine which contradicts naturalistic evolution. The Pope chose to
leave this doctrine out of his speech to avoid conflict with the
members.
Regards,
T Pagano
Try again?
AlwaysAskingQuestions
Apr 11, 2012, 1:38:20 PM4/11/12
to
T Pagano wrote:
[ snip childish handwavingseeking to avoid the question]
> 4. What AlwaysAskingQuestions fails to quote from that speech is that
> Pope John Paul II reminded those (mostly atheist) members that the
> Catholic Church had long ago (1950) spoken authoritatively through his
> predecessor (Pius XII) concerning matters of evolution----specifically
> in the authoritative teaching contained in "Humani Generis." He laid
> out two conditions in "Humani Generis" which its members summarily
> ignored and that document contains at least one piece of Catholic
> Doctrine which contradicts naturalistic evolution.
What piece of doctrine?
>The Pope chose to
> leave this doctrine out of his speech to avoid conflict with the
> members.
So you are essentially saying that the Pope didn't just get it wrong, he at
best was economical with the truth, at worst ignored Catholic Doctrine. Not
exactly the two attributes that most spring to mind in regard to Pope John
Paul II who was generally regarded as something of an arch conservative.
[ snip childish handwavingseeking to avoid the question]
> 4. What AlwaysAskingQuestions fails to quote from that speech is that
> Pope John Paul II reminded those (mostly atheist) members that the
> Catholic Church had long ago (1950) spoken authoritatively through his
> predecessor (Pius XII) concerning matters of evolution----specifically
> in the authoritative teaching contained in "Humani Generis." He laid
> out two conditions in "Humani Generis" which its members summarily
> ignored and that document contains at least one piece of Catholic
> Doctrine which contradicts naturalistic evolution.
>The Pope chose to
> leave this doctrine out of his speech to avoid conflict with the
> members.
best was economical with the truth, at worst ignored Catholic Doctrine. Not
exactly the two attributes that most spring to mind in regard to Pope John
Paul II who was generally regarded as something of an arch conservative.
Craig Franck
Apr 11, 2012, 1:55:44 PM4/11/12
to
predict he will invoke some intellectually dishonest way of
dismissing this point.
Craig
John Vreeland
Apr 13, 2012, 7:15:15 PM4/13/12
to
On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 10:59:07 -0400, T Pagano <not....@address.net>
wrote:
>On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 09:04:13 +0100, "AlwaysAskingQuestions"
><alwaysaski...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>T Pagano wrote:
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>> The claim of mountains of evidence of evidence is urban legend
>>> (and nonsense).
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>> What evidence? I've practically begged the atheists to produce it,
>>> but it has never been forth coming. The evidence is virtually non
>>> existent.
>>
>>So what do you think about Pope John Paul's statement that "The convergence
>>in the results of these independent studies-which was neither planned nor
>>sought-constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."
>>
>>
>>Do you reckon he imagined this evidence or was he just some sort of idiot
>>who bought the urban legend and nonsense?
>
>
>1. Notice that AlwaysAskingQuestions doesn't actually produce any
>evidence himself. Neither have any of talk.origin's credentialled
>academians: Harshman, Elsberry, Okimoto, Lethe, Theobold. And this
>is my point.
There are (or used to be) these things called, "books." I hear you can
silll find them at libraries and retail outlest and even through the
Internet.
It would be difficult to describe the mountain here on Usenet because
of space and tl;dr limitations, but perhaps I can sketch a quick
picture of it for you.
Try looking at
http://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Douglas-J-Futuyma/dp/0878931872
the 2005 edition can be had for essentially the cost of shipping.
You might also try one of the score of biology journals out there.
And for people who grew up on Gish and Morris, I recommend
http://www.amazon.com/Science-Earth-History-Evolution-Controversy/dp/1573927171/
by the late Arthur N. Strahler.
--
Some aspects of life would be a lot easier if Creationists were required to carry warning signs. Fortunately, many of them already do.
wrote:
>On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 09:04:13 +0100, "AlwaysAskingQuestions"
><alwaysaski...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>T Pagano wrote:
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>> The claim of mountains of evidence of evidence is urban legend
>>> (and nonsense).
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>> What evidence? I've practically begged the atheists to produce it,
>>> but it has never been forth coming. The evidence is virtually non
>>> existent.
>>
>>So what do you think about Pope John Paul's statement that "The convergence
>>in the results of these independent studies-which was neither planned nor
>>sought-constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."
>>
>>
>>Do you reckon he imagined this evidence or was he just some sort of idiot
>>who bought the urban legend and nonsense?
>
>
>1. Notice that AlwaysAskingQuestions doesn't actually produce any
>evidence himself. Neither have any of talk.origin's credentialled
>academians: Harshman, Elsberry, Okimoto, Lethe, Theobold. And this
>is my point.
silll find them at libraries and retail outlest and even through the
Internet.
It would be difficult to describe the mountain here on Usenet because
of space and tl;dr limitations, but perhaps I can sketch a quick
picture of it for you.
Try looking at
http://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Douglas-J-Futuyma/dp/0878931872
the 2005 edition can be had for essentially the cost of shipping.
You might also try one of the score of biology journals out there.
And for people who grew up on Gish and Morris, I recommend
http://www.amazon.com/Science-Earth-History-Evolution-Controversy/dp/1573927171/
by the late Arthur N. Strahler.
--
Some aspects of life would be a lot easier if Creationists were required to carry warning signs. Fortunately, many of them already do.
chris thompson
Apr 13, 2012, 8:00:34 PM4/13/12
to
On Apr 13, 7:15 pm, John Vreeland <john.vreel...@ieee.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 10:59:07 -0400, T Pagano <not.va...@address.net>
> Try looking athttp://www.amazon.com/Evolution-Douglas-J-Futuyma/dp/0878931872
that any evidence you have will not be sufficient to meet his demands
of "novel", "transformational" or whatever other word he can come up
with and never define.
Chris
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 10:59:07 -0400, T Pagano <not.va...@address.net>
>
> the 2005 edition can be had for essentially the cost of shipping.
>
> You might also try one of the score of biology journals out there.
>
> And for people who grew up on Gish and Morris, I recommendhttp://www.amazon.com/Science-Earth-History-Evolution-Controversy/dp/...
> the 2005 edition can be had for essentially the cost of shipping.
>
> You might also try one of the score of biology journals out there.
>
> by the late Arthur N. Strahler.
>
> --
> Some aspects of life would be a lot easier if Creationists were required to carry warning signs. Fortunately, many of them already do.
There's no point in presenting evidence to Tony. His mindset is such
>
> --
> Some aspects of life would be a lot easier if Creationists were required to carry warning signs. Fortunately, many of them already do.
that any evidence you have will not be sufficient to meet his demands
of "novel", "transformational" or whatever other word he can come up
with and never define.
Chris
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