a farewell
el cid
an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
The following are his words.
I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
effective. Thanks for all.
chris thompson
I grieve for your loss, and I grieve the loss of a t.o. person.
I might add that your father's last post (one step removed) to t.o. is
incredibly moving, and I thank you for forwarding it to us. I hope I
can exit with as much kindness and grace as your father evinced. Thank
you, and bless you and yours.
Chris
John S. Wilkins
You will be missed.
--
John S. Wilkins, Associate, Philosophy, University of Sydney
http://evolvingthoughts.net
But al be that he was a philosophre,
Yet hadde he but litel gold in cofre
Richard Clayton
Ave atque vale, el cid. Rest well.
To the poster: Thanks for posting this to us. I'm sorry for your loss,
and I will miss your father too.
--
[The address listed is a spam trap. To reply, take off every zig.]
Richard Clayton
"I keep six honest serving men (they taught me all I knew); their names
are What and Why and When and How and Where and Who." — Rudyard Kipling
Robert Camp
It is perhaps strange that I should feel the need to thank you for
delivering what is very sad news. But some ends deserve to be
acknowledged: Your father's was one of the more intelligent, erudite
and tolerant voices in this group, and I echo John's sentiment.
RLC
Garamond Lethe
Thank you for passing along this sad. You and your family will be in our
thoughts.
William Morse
We don't get to hear El Cid anymore? Damn. Double damn.
Friar Broccoli
A terrible lose for me personally. I benefited greatly from his
insights, and had hoped that would continue.
Thank you for posting this information to us.
*Hemidactylus*
I am sorry. I am so very sorry. I know *doubly* well what losing a
parent is like. Thank you for updating the group. Time heals, but you
will dream about him and it will be very confusing for you. That's all
the wisdom I can offer on this painful topic if there ever was such a
thing as wisdom when it comes to loss of a loved one :-(
--
*Hemidactylus*
Chief Pastor
United Church of Jesus Christ the Procrastinator
"He's suffering performance anxiety"
Dick C.
Dick C.
SkyEyes
I am so sorry for your loss. This group will be the poorer for his
having left it.
Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
skyeyes nine at cox dot net
James Beck
Oh no. I am sorry for your loss.
jillery
I might be among the last people he wrote to. I had no idea at the
time.
I share your loss.
Kleuskes & Moos
Requiescat in pace. He will be missed. My sincere condolances.
Kleuske.
Burkhard
I'm very sorry for your loss, and thank you for passing the sad news
on to us at a time when your mind will be full with other things. We
will all remember your father very fondly for his kindness, knowledge
and depth of thought, I learned a lot from him.
Mike Dworetsky
I add my condolences to those of so many others. He will be missed here in
t.o.
--
Mike Dworetsky
(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)
Stuart
My heartfelt condolences to you and your family. Your father will be
greatly
missed on t.o. Thanks for letting us know as I don't recall your Dad
letting on
that he was ill.
Yours,
Stuart Weinstein
Will in New Haven
I am very sorry for your loss. He will be missed here and I'm sure he
will be missed elsewhere as well. Thank you for taking the time to
post this.
--
Will in New Haven
We say goodby a lot this time of day.
The sun is going down; the shadows grow too long.
We knew the day would end but still,
We say goodby too much this time of day.
Steven L.
news:cd58e6b6-487a-47ee...@k42g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:
My condolences.
Your dad will be missed, and he will always be in our thoughts.
-- Steven L.
TomS
<cd58e6b6-487a-47ee...@k42g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, el cid
stated..."
loss.
--
---Tom S.
Surely, God could have caused birds to fly with their bones made of solid gold,
with their veins full of quicksilver, with their flesh heavier than lead
The Crime of Galileo (1976) by Giorgio De Santillana, p. 167
Mark Isaak
My condolences to you and to all who knew your father. He will be
missed.
--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) earthlink (dot) net
"It is certain, from experience, that the smallest grain of natural
honesty and benevolence has more effect on men's conduct, than the most
pompous views suggested by theological theories and systems." - D. Hume
Steve O
It was privilege to talk to your Dad now and again.
--
Steve O
a.a.2240 BAAWA
Exempt from Purgatory by Papal Indulgence
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by el cid
<elcid...@gmail.com>:
If you read t.o, my condolences for your loss.
--
Bob C.
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless
David Fritzinger
<4484a9fb-eb02-4b4b...@w17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
"Dick C." <dic...@gmail.com> wrote:
Let me add my condolences as well.
Scott Balneaves
> According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
> an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
> arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
> The following are his words.
>
> I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
> a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
> more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
> in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
> talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
> own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
> the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
> your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
> effective. Thanks for all.
I always enjoyed el cid's posts, he'll be missed around here.
As well, my heartfelt condolences on your loss.
Ray Martinez
> According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
> an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
> arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
> The following are his words.
>
> I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
> a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
> more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
> in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
> talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
> own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
> the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
> your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
> effective. Thanks for all.
How pathetically sad; with only days to live, El Cid was here at
Talk.Origins defending and promoting evolutionary theory, wasting his
time, instead of seeking the face of his Maker.
Another life wasted and ruined by evolution and that evil Atheist,
Charles Darwin.
Ray
Kleuskes & Moos
Methinks he got a better view than you. It is reflected in your
respective attitudes: him being placid and couragious, you being petty
and vindictive.
> Another life wasted and ruined by evolution and that evil Atheist,
> Charles Darwin.
I don't think El Cid's life was wasted, au contraire. Yours, on the
other hand, seems to be utterly pointless.
pnyikos
posting in 2008 after a 7+ year absence from Usenet, but I think the
occasion is worthy of it.
I'm glad I got a chance to discuss and debate with el cid before his
death. Even though he and I had some harsh words for each other from
time to time, he was still the best person for discussions of
abiogenesis and biochemistry, and his loss leaves a void which I fear
no one will be able to fill. I will therefore miss him very much.
On Jan 23, 7:39 pm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jan 22, 4:02 pm, el cid <elcidbi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
> > an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
> > arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
> > The following are his words.
>
> > I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
> > a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
> > more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
> > in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
> > talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
> > own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
> > the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
> > your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
> > effective. Thanks for all.
A most fitting and dignified final message. My thanks to his son for
relaying it.
> How pathetically sad; with only days to live, El Cid was here at
> Talk.Origins defending and promoting evolutionary theory, wasting his
> time, instead of seeking the face of his Maker.
As I mentioned once before in t.o., one of my favorite saying is that
God writes straight in crooked ways. If God indeed exists, I pray el
cid will obtain mercy from Him for all the good he has done in his
life, even while having no idea Whose path he was following when doing
good.
> Another life wasted and ruined by evolution and that evil Atheist,
> Charles Darwin.
>
> Ray
His ideas had many evil consequences, but that is a reflection on the
evil uses to which they were put and not to the ideas themselves nor
to the man himself, who I doubt was an actual atheist.
Peter Nyikos
pnyikos
> On Jan 24, 1:39�am, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 22, 4:02�pm, el cid <elcidbi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
> > > an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
> > > arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
> > > The following are his words.
>
> > > I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
> > > a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
> > > more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
> > > in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
> > > talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
> > > own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
> > > the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
> > > your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
> > > effective. Thanks for all.
>
> > How pathetically sad; with only days to live, El Cid was here at
> > Talk.Origins defending and promoting evolutionary theory, wasting his
> > time, instead of seeking the face of his Maker.
>
> Methinks he got a better view than you. It is reflected in your
> respective attitudes: him being placid and couragious,
His final message is both, but I think you are looking at his
performance here with rose-colored glasses. Understandable, given the
solemnity of the occasion.
> you being petty
> and vindictive.
I hope it is just a youthful stage out of which he will eventually
grow.
> > Another life wasted and ruined by evolution and that evil Atheist,
> > Charles Darwin.
>
> I don't think El Cid's life was wasted, au contraire. Yours, on the
> other hand, seems to be utterly pointless
I doubt that the life of any person posting here is utterly
pointless. For one thing, we have very limited knowledge of what the
others do away from Usenet.
Peter Nyikos
Vend
> According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
> an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
> arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
> The following are his words.
>
> I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
> a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
> more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
> in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
> talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
> own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
> the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
> your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
> effective. Thanks for all.
Condolences for your father and Farewell el cid.
*Hemidactylus*
El Cid was probably fighting hard til the end, enjoying the banter and
discussion with the regulars here, many of whom he might have gotten
some measure of inspiration or joy from. Don't make an issue over it
Ray. This is not the time nor place to pee in a fan. You have the
uncanny ability to say impolite things that will rub many people (even
those on your side of the aisle) the wrong way. Please learn to exercise
some social graces.
Jeffrey Turner
> According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
> an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
> arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
> The following are his words.
>
> I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
> a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
> more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
> in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
> talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
> own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
> the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
> your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
> effective. Thanks for all.
What a guy. Thanks for letting us know. You have my condolences.
--Jeff
--
Money to get power;
Power to protect money.
--Medici family motto
*Hemidactylus*
You haven't collected enough data points to be so optimistic.
>>> Another life wasted and ruined by evolution and that evil Atheist,
>>> Charles Darwin.
>>
>> I don't think El Cid's life was wasted, au contraire. Yours, on the
>> other hand, seems to be utterly pointless
>
> I doubt that the life of any person posting here is utterly
> pointless. For one thing, we have very limited knowledge of what the
> others do away from Usenet.
I had an exchange with el cid that took place pretty much a month ago
based loosely on Mark Isaak's objection to your directed panspermy
hypothesis along the lines of what benefit it would be for the designers
to seed a far flung planet:
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/296874bdb960291b
Quite a comical tangent (eg -Darth Cheney), but to be cherished.
chris thompson
Am I mistaken?
Has Ray sunk lower than ever?
A good man died, Ray.
Why is it you cannot even pass on condolences?
In the words of another famous person, "Have you no shame? At the end
of the day, sir, have you no shame?"
Ray, please think about this. A person is dead, from a horrible
disease, and all you can provide is invective? Please, think about
this. Your reply is that of a monster.
Chris
raven1
<elcid...@gmail.com> wrote:
>According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
>an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
>arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
>The following are his words.
>
>I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
>a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
>more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
>in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
>talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
>own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
>the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
>your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
>effective. Thanks for all.
Very sorry for your loss, and he will be missed here too.
raven1
Jesus wept.
Scott Balneaves
*shakes head*
jillery
Identify and substantiate just one.
> but that is a reflection on the
> evil uses to which they were put and not to the ideas themselves nor
> to the man himself, who I doubt was an actual atheist.
>
> Peter Nyikos- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Baron Bodissey
> According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
> an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
> arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
> The following are his words.
>
> I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
> a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
> more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
> in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
> talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
> own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
> the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
> your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
> effective. Thanks for all.
Others have said it more eloquently but I'd like to extend my
condolences to you and your family and thanks for the time he spent
here.
Baron Bodisey
Walter Bushell
*Hemidactylus* <ecph...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I had an exchange with el cid that took place pretty much a month ago
> based loosely on Mark Isaak's objection to your directed panspermy
> hypothesis along the lines of what benefit it would be for the designers
> to seed a far flung planet:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/296874bdb960291b
>
> Quite a comical tangent (eg -Darth Cheney), but to be cherished.
In one of the extensions of Niven's Know Space Universe the Outsiders
(frigid liquid helium based aliens who travel deep space at sublight
speeds) seed promising planets to develop customers.
--
The Chinese pretend their goods are good and we pretend our money
is good, or is it the reverse?
Will in New Haven
So we see the face of Ray the religious person. Hateful, vindictive
and willing his evil little vengeance-monkey god to make people
suffer.
You are a piece of shit, Ray.
Will in New Haven
wrote:
> On Jan 23, 7:39 pm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 22, 4:02 pm, el cid <elcidbi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
> > > an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
> > > arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
> > > The following are his words.
>
> > > I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
> > > a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
> > > more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
> > > in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
> > > talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
> > > own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
> > > the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
> > > your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
> > > effective. Thanks for all.
>
> > How pathetically sad; with only days to live, El Cid was here at
> > Talk.Origins defending and promoting evolutionary theory, wasting his
> > time, instead of seeking the face of his Maker.
>
> > Another life wasted and ruined by evolution and that evil Atheist,
> > Charles Darwin.
>
> > Ray
>
> Am I mistaken?
>
> Has Ray sunk lower than ever?
Ray has always been this low. A long time ago Gene Scott, who was
almost certainly a non-believing con man, sold him a way to avoid
thinking and he bought it whole-hog.
>
> A good man died, Ray.
>
> Why is it you cannot even pass on condolences?
>
> In the words of another famous person, "Have you no shame? At the end
> of the day, sir, have you no shame?"
The shame of it is that I know the occasion and I know to whom it was
said but the famous person who said it has largely been forgotten, but
not his words.
> Ray, please think about this. A person is dead, from a horrible
> disease, and all you can provide is invective? Please, think about
> this. Your reply is that of a monster.
Because Ray IS a monster. He is a monster who worships a monster.
David Iain Greig
>
> Another life wasted and ruined by evolution and that evil Atheist,
> Charles Darwin.
This, in its own way, is a totally *appropriate* tribute, even though
it was meant in a totally un-Christian and morally evil way.
My condolences on your loss. Having buried a parent it is not
easy; your father will be missed.
--D.
--
david iain greig gr...@ediacara.org
moderator, talk.origins sp4 kox
http://www.ediacara.org/~greig arbor plena alouattarum
Mitchell Coffey
> According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
> an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
> arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
> The following are his words.
>
> I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
> a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
> more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
> in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
> talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
> own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
> the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
> your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
> effective. Thanks for all.
This is devastating. "El Cid" was one of the best people I knew. A
while back he suggested he was hospitalized, but he didn't wish to
discuss it.
As to his son, my best wishes for you. It's hard. Thank you for
passing along your father's message.
Mitchell Coffey
Rodjk #613
> According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
> an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
> arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
> The following are his words.
>
> I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
> a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
> more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
> in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
> talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
> own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
> the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
> your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
> effective. Thanks for all.
Thank you for writing. I am terribly sorry for your loss, for the pain
that your father went through, and for the loss to all of us.
Why am I in tears?
Rodjk #613
Erwin Moller
> According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
> an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
> arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
> The following are his words.
>
> I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
> a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
> more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
> in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
> talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
> own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
> the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
> your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
> effective. Thanks for all.
>
Oh no, that is sad news indeed.
I really liked what el cid wrote when lurking around in this group.
He will be missed.
Yet, somehow, it is comforting to know he asked you to let us know this.
"The calm and patient voices were always the most effective."
I will try to remember those words next time some creationist irritates
me enormously.
Thank you for letting us all know.
My condolences.
Regards,
Erwin Moller
--
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without
evidence."
-- Christopher Hitchens
Matthew Bladen
@k42g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, el cid <elcid...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
> an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
> arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
> The following are his words.
>
> I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
> a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
> more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
> in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
> talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
> own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
> the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
> your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
> effective. Thanks for all.
It seems somehow appropriate that el cid should ride out one last time.
My sincere condolences.
--
Matthew
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by Ray Martinez
<pyram...@yahoo.com>:
<snip>
>How pathetically sad; with only days to live, El Cid was here at
>Talk.Origins...wasting his
>time, instead of seeking the face of his Maker.
Yes, Ray, let that be a lesson for you, since no one knows
the date of his death.
BTW Ray, you never fail to confirm my estimation of your
humanity and empathy.
--
Bob C.
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by chris thompson
<chris.li...@gmail.com>:
His reply is that of a smug, self-righteous and hypocritical
religious fundamentalist which, since that's what he is,
should be no surprise.
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by Will in New Haven
<bill....@taylorandfrancis.com>:
That's overgeneralized, and Ray's sort is a minority.
>You are a piece of shit, Ray.
--
Bob C.
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by jillery
<69jp...@gmail.com>:
Eugenics, especially as practiced in the 1930s and 1940s in
Germany; substantiation is left as an exercise for the
reader. Note that Peter didn't say that the consequences
derived from *valid* application of Darwin's ideas.
>> but that is a reflection on the
>> evil uses to which they were put and not to the ideas themselves nor
>> to the man himself, who I doubt was an actual atheist.
>>
>> Peter Nyikos- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
Rodjk #613
"Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator. You've done enough.
Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no
sense of decency?"
>
> The shame of it is that I know the occasion and I know to whom it was
> said but the famous person who said it has largely been forgotten, but
> not his words.
Joseph N. Welch.
>
> > Ray, please think about this. A person is dead, from a horrible
> > disease, and all you can provide is invective? Please, think about
> > this. Your reply is that of a monster.
>
> Because Ray IS a monster. He is a monster who worships a monster.
Yes.
>
> --
> Will in New Haven
Rodjk #613
jillery
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 20:21:00 -0800 (PST), the following
> appeared in talk.origins, posted by jillery
I see you interpreted "his" to refer to Darwin, while I interpreted
"his" to refer to El Cid. On reflection, both equally valid and
interesting.
> >> but that is a reflection on the
> >> evil uses to which they were put and not to the ideas themselves nor
> >> to the man himself, who I doubt was an actual atheist.
>
> >> Peter Nyikos- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> --
>
> Bob C.
>
> "Evidence confirming an observation is
> evidence that the observation is wrong."
> - McNameless- Hide quoted text -
Ray Martinez
>
> - Show quoted text -
Apparently, the truth hurts.
Ray
Ray Martinez
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 18:57:38 -0800 (PST), the following
> appeared in talk.origins, posted by chris thompson
>
> - Show quoted text -
The Fundies accept microevolution, limited macoevolution and natural
selection; young earth and the Republican Party.
I reject all evolution and natural selection; accept an old earth and
I support Obama and Pelosi 99% of the time.
Scientifically, Bob, the Fundies are in Darwin's bed (Thank God)!
You are just lashing out in misdirected anger.
Ray
Ray Martinez
> On 01/23/2011 07:39 PM, Ray Martinez wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 22, 4:02 pm, el cid<elcidbi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
> >> an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
> >> arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
> >> The following are his words.
>
> >> I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
> >> a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
> >> more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
> >> in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
> >> talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
> >> own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
> >> the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
> >> your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
> >> effective. Thanks for all.
>
> > How pathetically sad; with only days to live, El Cid was here at
> > Talk.Origins defending and promoting evolutionary theory, wasting his
> > time, instead of seeking the face of his Maker.
>
> > Another life wasted and ruined by evolution and that evil Atheist,
> > Charles Darwin.
>
> discussion with the regulars here, many of whom he might have gotten
> some measure of inspiration or joy from. Don't make an issue over it
> Ray. This is not the time nor place to pee in a fan. You have the
> uncanny ability to say impolite things that will rub many people (even
> those on your side of the aisle) the wrong way. Please learn to exercise
> some social graces.
>
> --
> *Hemidactylus*
> Chief Pastor
> United Church of Jesus Christ the Procrastinator
>
> - Show quoted text -
[CORRECTION POST; ORIGINAL DELETED DUE TO ERRORS]
You or I (or anyone else for that matter) would know El Cid if we
bumped into him on the street----so stop acting like you knew him.
Now, back to my points: El Cid knew he was dying, yet he was here at
Talk.Origins wasting his final days and hours promoting and defending
evolutionary theory----WHY?
Answer: Because evolution says the God of Genesis does not exist----
that's why he was here wasting his final days and hours instead of
seeking the face of his Maker.
How pathetic!
The concept of Intelligent design is seen in every aspect of nature
with the naked eye. El Cid, like all Darwinists, was a fucking liar/
deluded moron. I couldn't give a damn about his son posting some
stupid "farewell/last wish" message. Everyone needs to see, in the
actions of El Cid, that evolutionary theory says God does not exist.
That's why all you stupid evil Atheists are Darwinists.
The observation of Intelligent design, seen in every aspect of nature,
says the Genesis Creator does indeed exist. You are more upset with
the passing of some anonymous person than the lie of evolution and its
denial of ID. Whattaworld.
Ray
Ray Martinez
Should say " would NOT know...."
A Message to the Darwinists:
Stop acting like you all knew El Cid----you didn't. He posted using a
pseudonym because he didn't want anyone to know who he was.
Ray
haiku jones
<>
> Apparently, the truth hurts.
The truth here is that you are an unfeeling
lout who is crowing over the body of a dead man
in the presence of his son.
haiku jones
>
> Ray
Conan the bacterium
<>
Interesting. I had now known that mind-reading
was among your diverse talents.
How many fingers am I holding up?
conan
pnyikos
He's no credit to his religion, whatever branch of Christianity it
is. Don't tar anyone but him with that brush, please.
>Hateful, vindictive
> and willing his evil little vengeance-monkey god to make people
> suffer.
Although I too am a Christian, my take on God is very different. I've
been having an exchange about God and the hereafter, mostly with John
Harshman, on the thread originally labeled "The futility of
Intelligent Design".
I've started moving replies out of that thread because once a thread
gets beyond 300 posts, Google starts doing funny things with it. And
it's almost at 500 now.
Peter Nyikos
pnyikos
Of course, I meant Darwin. Read Ray's last sentence, and mark well
whom the label "evil Atheist" is attached to.
>On reflection, both equally valid and
> interesting.
Do you dispute what Bob Casanova wrote? Herbert Spencer's take on
Darwin was far from beneficial, although I'd have to make a much
deeper study of it to pronounce it "evil"--and maybe that is not the
right label for Spencer's ideas.
Stuart
yeah and now his empire is being rin by a former porn star.
Stuart
pnyikos
Don't flatter yourself, Ray. There are other reasons for people
becoming indignant than "the truth hurts".
You called el cid's life "wasted." What's your grounds for such a
sweeping statement? Do you have a son who is as devoted to you as el
cid's son seems to be to him?
Peter Nyikos
deadrat
One?
> conan
>
<snip/>
pnyikos
Wow. Would Obama's Illinois capers on a bill outlawing infanticide,
and his subsequent false rationallizations for having successfully
fought it tooth and nail, be in the remaining 1%?
By the way, do you have ANY reason to think these two are NOT staunch
evolutionists and even anti-creationists?
> Scientifically, Bob, the Fundies are in Darwin's bed (Thank God)!
Funny, you come across as a fundie yourself, except for your rejection
of the YEC interpretation of Genesis 1.
> You are just lashing out in misdirected anger.
>
> Ray
Hardly. His anger is directed mainly at the callous words "life
wasted and ruined" rather than the reason you give for this
unwarranted insult.
Peter Nyikos
RMcBane
Just the one in the middle.
--
Richard McBane
pnyikos
Has it ever occurred to you that he told LOTS of fellow t.o. regulars
who he was, by private e-mail? He even said he might tell me who he
was if certain conditions were met, but since he did not make an
unequivocal offer, I did not take him up on it.
I think I've narrowed down the field to one person who posted in the
1990's but there's no point in posting my guess to this thread. But
if it is correct, we have every reason to think lots of people posting
here knew the man behind the pseudonym.
Does the word "Howlerfest" ring a bell?
Peter Nyikos
Ray Martinez
Imagine that; Peter "the Christian" is more concerned about the phony
feelings of Darwinists, in behalf of a dead pseudonym, than he is with
the fact that evolution caused the dead pseudonym to actually think
and believe that God does not exist?
And Peter thinks I am "no credit [to my] religion....branch of
Christianity."
What branch of Christianity teaches Peter that the person sticking up
for the God of Genesis is somehow wrong for pointing out that
evolution caused a person to think that God does not exist?
Peter will undoubtedly ignore and act as if this is about respect for
a dead person and his stupid farewell message. Where do you think El
Cid is right now, Peter? He spent his last days and hours praising
evolution, arguing the non-existence of the Genesis Creator (the
IDer).
Peter: the paleontological crust of the Earth shows the abrupt
appearance of species, enduring for some time, changing slightly
(variation), then disappearing abruptly (= plain evidence supporting
real time special creation). Genesis is true, the scientific evidence
says so.
Ray (species immutabilist)
[....]
Mark Isaak
> [...]
> Now, back to my points: El Cid knew he was dying, yet he was here at
> Talk.Origins wasting his final days and hours promoting and defending
> evolutionary theory----WHY?
>
> Answer: Because evolution says the God of Genesis does not exist----
> that's why he was here wasting his final days and hours instead of
> seeking the face of his Maker.
>
> How pathetic!
Everybody is dying. Everyone who has achieved a modicum of maturity
knows it. And yet here you are at talk.origins wasting your days and
hours demoting and degraging people and theories----WHY?
Answer: Well, no, it's best to let you answer that for yourself. I will
only say that if your answer does not apply "pathetic" to yourself, it
certainly deserves to apply "hypocrite."
> The concept of Intelligent design is seen in every aspect of nature
> with the naked eye. El Cid, like all Darwinists, was a fucking liar/
> deluded moron. I couldn't give a damn about his son posting some stupid
> "farewell/last wish" message. Everyone needs to see, in the actions of
> El Cid, that evolutionary theory says God does not exist. That's why
> all you stupid evil Atheists are Darwinists.
As you yourself noted earlier, you do not know El Cid. Your comments say
nothing about him; they tell us about yourself.
--
Mark Isaak eciton (at) earthlink (dot) net
"It is certain, from experience, that the smallest grain of natural
honesty and benevolence has more effect on men's conduct, than the most
pompous views suggested by theological theories and systems." - D. Hume
Ray Martinez
>
> - Show quoted text -
I said he wasted his final days and hours promoting and defending
evolutionary theory instead of seeking the face of his Maker. He
surely did know that his time was short. He wasted his final days and
hours here at Talk.Origins because evolution taught him that God
doesn't exist----just like panspermia does, Peter. Crick was a
virulent Atheist. You, a "Christian," are like a fish out of water
when you advocate panspermia. But you can't see it because you are
deluded. You care more about what your "scientific" peers think of you
than Christ.
John 1:1 says the Logos (Christ) was present when Genesis 1:1
occurred. Evolution says Genesis is false.
It is impossible to be a real Christian and accept evolutionary
theory, that is, the theory that Richard Dawkins accepts. Evolution is
an ASSUMPTION and explanation of evidence faithful to that assumption.
Atheists MUST accept the assumption, they have no choice. But
objective and honest people see the concept of ID in nature, which is
how we know God exists independent of Revelation.
Ray
Earle Jones
<198a2405-5307-490f...@e9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
Ray Martinez <pyram...@yahoo.com> wrote:
*
Ray: I think you are reaching for a new low, following your comments
about the slobbering (or was it the drooling) Stephen Hawking. You may
not have set a new low in jabbering idiocy, but you have at least tied
it.
earle
*
pnyikos
You are a most un-perceptive person if you think their sympathy for el
cid and his son (and other close relatrives) is "phony".
How old are you, anyway? You could use some lessons in diplomacy.
Your model seems to be on the lines of Khrushchev banging his shoes on
the table in the UN General Assembly. The Soviet ambassador to the
UN, Andrei Gromyko, was aghast at this display of crassness; he always
prided himself on behaving like a professional diplomat.
>in behalf of a dead pseudonym, than he is with
> the fact that evolution caused the dead pseudonym to actually think
> and believe that God does not exist?
I do believe you are confusing cause and effect: I think el cid
believed God did not exist long before he knew enough about evolution
to believe in it.
I base this on his near-fanatical devotion to "Mother Earth did it
(abiogenesis) quite easily." HIs basis for that was very indirect.
> And Peter thinks I am "no credit [to my] religion....branch of
> Christianity."
Yes, and what is it? Christians are taught to love even their
enemies, and you are trampling on the feelings of a son of one of your
adversaries, without even knowing whether he shared the world-view of
his father.
> What branch of Christianity teaches Peter that the person sticking up
> for the God of Genesis is somehow wrong for pointing out that
> evolution caused a person to think that God does not exist?
See above. Besides, you brought this issue out of the blue. I was
focused on your un-diplomatic behavior.
> Peter will undoubtedly ignore
Cut it out, Ron O. :-)
> and act as if this is about respect for
> a dead person and his stupid farewell message. Where do you think El
> Cid is right now, Peter? He spent his last days and hours praising
> evolution, arguing the non-existence of the Genesis Creator (the
> IDer).
So? Haven't you ever heard of what we Catholics call Baptism of
Desire? If El Cid had access to proof of God's existence, he might
well have not only believed in God but followed Him.
But he never saw proof.
> Peter: the paleontological crust of the Earth shows the abrupt
> appearance of species, enduring for some time, changing slightly
> (variation), then disappearing abruptly (= plain evidence supporting
> real time special creation). Genesis is true, the scientific evidence
> says so.
Do you have a clue as to how unlikely an organism is to be
fossilized? And for the fossil to be found by human beings?
Paleontologists estimate that we have fossils for less than 1/10th of
1% of all the species of animals that ever existed.
Also, we have enough Equid fossils to plot a pretty detailed
evolutionary history for Equus starting with Hyracotherium/Eohippus.
Peter Nyikos
Ray Martinez
>
> - Show quoted text -
You have completely misread what I said, however. Any life spent
accepting ToE is wasted. ALL of the evidence supports Genesis. And the
Fundies are in YOUR court, Peter. They accept mutability.
Ray (Old Earth species immutabilist)
Ray Martinez
> In article
> <198a2405-5307-490f-9506-e7a0c754e...@e9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
>
> - Show quoted text -
Why would a malformed scientist, sitting in a wheelchair, who drools
on himself, use his power/prestige and a 30 second sound byte of time
afforded to him on national television, declare the non-existence of
God, unless he was blaming God and obtaining revenge for his
condition?
Objective persons could see that rage and bitterness were also
drooling from his lopsided mouth. That's how we know the above
observation is true.
Ray
Ray Martinez
deadrat
> On Jan 24, 1:39 pm, pnyikos<nyik...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> On Jan 24, 9:37 am, Will in New Haven
>
> And Peter thinks I am "no credit [to my] religion....branch of
> Christianity."
>
> What branch of Christianity teaches Peter that the person sticking up
> for the God of Genesis is somehow wrong for pointing out that
> evolution caused a person to think that God does not exist?
All branches, per Matthew 7.
<snip/>
>
> Ray (species immutabilist)
deadrat
Infanticide was illegal in Illinois before Obama took state office, it
remained illegal while he was in office, and it remains so now. No bill
legalizing infanticide has ever been before the Illinois legislature,
before, during, or after Obama's time in office.
I understand that your benighted interpretation of your religion demands
that you oppose abortion. Doesn't your religion also frown on lying?
Conan the bacterium
> On Jan 22, 4:02 pm, el cid <elcidbi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
> > an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
> > arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
> > The following are his words.
>
> > I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
> > a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
> > more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
> > in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
> > talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
> > own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
> > the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
> > your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
> > effective. Thanks for all.
>
<>
> How pathetically sad; with only days to live, El Cid was here at
> Talk.Origins defending and promoting evolutionary theory, wasting his
> time, instead of seeking the face of his Maker.
Talk about your oxymorons...
conan
Ray Martinez
It was not out of the blue. It was my initial message in this topic.
But you are evading the issue, which is that evolution caused a person
to spend their final days here at Talk.Origins, because its main claim
says the God of the Bible does not exist.
But you too are a casualty (like El Cid).You believe in evolution and
panspermia, but think of yourself as a Christian. The contradiction
seen here can only be explained by delusion. When and where does your
God effect reality, Peter? Where did you obtain the idea that God
exists? The Bible is clear: if you deny Him, He will deny you.
Panspermia and evolution deny God. When is your Christianity affirmed
before men, Peter? Until it offends Atheists it is counterfeit. People
accepting the non-existence of God based on Atheist assumptions about
reality (evolution) and the only thing that bothers you----"a
Christian"----is my "undiplomatic behavior"? You are God-damn right
that I used undiplomatic behavior! I used it to make life-and-death
points!
Ray
> > Peter will undoubtedly ignore
>
> Cut it out, Ron O. �:-)
>
> > and act as if this is about respect for
> > a dead person and his stupid farewell message. Where do you think El
> > Cid is right now, Peter? He spent his last days and hours praising
> > evolution, arguing the non-existence of the Genesis Creator (the
> > IDer).
>
> So? �Haven't you ever heard of what we Catholics call Baptism of
> Desire? �If El Cid had access to proof of God's existence, he might
> well have not only believed in God but followed Him.
>
> But he never saw proof.
>
> > Peter: the paleontological crust of the Earth shows the abrupt
> > appearance of species, enduring for some time, changing slightly
> > (variation), then disappearing abruptly (= plain evidence supporting
> > real time special creation). Genesis is true, the scientific evidence
> > says so.
>
> Do you have a clue as to how unlikely an organism is to be
> fossilized? � And for the fossil to be found by human beings?
> Paleontologists estimate that we have fossils for less than 1/10th of
> 1% of all the species of animals that ever existed.
>
> Also, we have enough Equid fossils to plot a pretty detailed
> evolutionary history for Equus starting with Hyracotherium/Eohippus.
>
> Peter Nyikos- Hide quoted text -
Kleuskes & Moos
Ack. You have reached new depths. The epithet "bottomfeeder" would be
too flattering for you.
Bill
Ray, I said before that you probably found "salvation by faith alone"
an attractive idea because you either had said and done a lot of mean
things to people or had never done anything nice to anyone. It seems I
was right.
haiku jones
>?
> Why would a malformed scientist, sitting in a wheelchair, who drools
> on himself, use his power/prestige and a 30 second sound byte of time
> afforded to him on national television, declare the non-existence of
> God, unless he was blaming God and obtaining revenge for his
> condition?
How about "because this is what he believes
theory indicates"?
Hawking's body is indeed twisted. But the
above paragraph indicates that your soul
is far more so.
haiku
Conan the bacterium
> On Jan 24, 3:11嚙緘m, Earle Jones <earle.jo...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > In article
> > <198a2405-5307-490f-9506-e7a0c754e...@e9g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
>
> > > On Jan 23, 6:14嚙緘m, *Hemidactylus* <ecpho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On 01/23/2011 07:39 PM, Ray Martinez wrote:
>
> > about the slobbering (or was it the drooling) Stephen Hawking. 嚙磐ou may
> > not have set a new low in jabbering idiocy, but you have at least tied
> > it.
>
> > earle
> > *- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
<>
> Why would a malformed scientist, sitting in a wheelchair, who drools
> on himself, use his power/prestige and a 30 second sound byte of time
> afforded to him on national television, declare the non-existence of
> God, unless he was blaming God and obtaining revenge for his
> condition?
<>
> Objective persons could see that rage and bitterness were also
> drooling from his lopsided mouth. That's how we know the above
> observation is true.
This is your heart on Christianity.
Any questions?
And of course that's a canard, and I retract
it: none of the Christians I know personally would
be capable of writing anything like the above,
and a few of them would probably spit on the
person who did.
conan
Tom McDonald
I see. You're nothing more than a Westboro Baptist Church kind of Christian.
You have no understanding of Christ or His message. I pray for you.
<snip>
--
Tom
pnyikos
Not really. The law against it where aborted babies were concerned
was enjoined by court order before Obama took office, and was still
enjoined when he left.
> it
> remained illegal while he was in office, and it remains so now. No bill
> legalizing infanticide has ever been before the Illinois legislature,
I said "outlawing," not "legalizing". The bill finally passed after
Obama left for the US Senate.
> before, during, or after Obama's time in office.
>
> I understand that your benighted interpretation of your religion demands
> that you oppose abortion.
False. In the first place, I only propose legal prohibitions past the
8th week beyond fertilization, when the embryo becomes a fetus
according to the usage of human embryologists.
And no religion puts the dividing line there. My abortion position is
fully compatible with an atheistic/agnostic worldview and was, in
fact, formulated when I considered myself to be an agnostic, bordering
on atheism.
> Doesn't your religion also frown on lying?
Of course it does. Does yours?
Peter Nyikos
pnyikos
You and Ron O. are getting to look more and more similar in every
respect except your views on evolution. Your closing paragraph is
very similar in style to most of the ones he has produced against me.
You remind me of something some pundits of the left said in the late
60's -- that Judge Julius Hoffman and Yippee Abbie Hoffman had a lot
more in common than just their last names, despite the fact that the
Judge was charging the Yippees with contempt of court.
> > > and act as if this is about respect for
> > > a dead person and his stupid farewell message. Where do you think El
> > > Cid is right now, Peter? He spent his last days and hours praising
> > > evolution, arguing the non-existence of the Genesis Creator (the
> > > IDer).
>
> > So? Haven't you ever heard of what we Catholics call Baptism of
> > Desire? If El Cid had access to proof of God's existence, he might
> > well have not only believed in God but followed Him.
>
> > But he never saw proof.
>
> > > Peter: the paleontological crust of the Earth shows the abrupt
> > > appearance of species, enduring for some time, changing slightly
> > > (variation), then disappearing abruptly (= plain evidence supporting
> > > real time special creation). Genesis is true, the scientific evidence
> > > says so.
>
> > Do you have a clue as to how unlikely an organism is to be
> > fossilized? And for the fossil to be found by human beings?
> > Paleontologists estimate that we have fossils for less than 1/10th of
> > 1% of all the species of animals that ever existed.
>
> > Also, we have enough Equid fossils to plot a pretty detailed
> > evolutionary history for Equus starting with Hyracotherium/Eohippus.
>
> > Peter Nyikos- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
You ignored what I wrote in these last few paragraphs.
Peter Nyikos
*Hemidactylus*
> On Jan 24, 12:58 pm, Ray Martinez<pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 23, 6:14 pm, *Hemidactylus*<ecpho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 01/23/2011 07:39 PM, Ray Martinez wrote:
>>
>>>> On Jan 22, 4:02 pm, el cid<elcidbi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
>>>>> an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
>>>>> arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
>>>>> The following are his words.
>>
>>>>> I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
>>>>> a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
>>>>> more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
>>>>> in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
>>>>> talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
>>>>> own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
>>>>> the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
>>>>> your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
>>>>> effective. Thanks for all.
>>
>>>> How pathetically sad; with only days to live, El Cid was here at
>>>> Talk.Origins defending and promoting evolutionary theory, wasting his
>>>> time, instead of seeking the face of his Maker.
>>
>>>> Another life wasted and ruined by evolution and that evil Atheist,
>>>> Charles Darwin.
>>
>>> discussion with the regulars here, many of whom he might have gotten
>>> some measure of inspiration or joy from. Don't make an issue over it
>>> Ray. This is not the time nor place to pee in a fan. You have the
>>> uncanny ability to say impolite things that will rub many people (even
>>> those on your side of the aisle) the wrong way. Please learn to exercise
>>> some social graces.
>>
>>> --
>>> *Hemidactylus*
>>> Chief Pastor
>>> United Church of Jesus Christ the Procrastinator
>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>
>> You or I (or anyone else for that matter) would know El Cid if we
>> bumped into him on the street----so stop acting like you knew him.
>>
>
>
> A Message to the Darwinists:
>
> Stop acting like you all knew El Cid----you didn't. He posted using a
> pseudonym because he didn't want anyone to know who he was.
>
are looking silly with your obsessive overcorrection. Nobody cares if
you're trying to maintain your reputation for correctness. You are
displaying a major lack of social sensibility, like that group that
protests funerals. In doing so you are probably offending quite a few of
your fellow Christians, not to mention Jews, agnostics, atheists,
Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims and other walks of life. Uniting such a
diverse group of people against you wouldn't help your case much. Please
cease.
*Hemidactylus*
> On Jan 23, 7:39 pm, Ray Martinez<pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Jan 22, 4:02 pm, el cid<elcidbi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
>>> an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
>>> arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
>>> The following are his words.
>>
>>> I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
>>> a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
>>> more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
>>> in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
>>> talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
>>> own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
>>> the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
>>> your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
>>> effective. Thanks for all.
>>
>> How pathetically sad; with only days to live, El Cid was here at
>> Talk.Origins defending and promoting evolutionary theory, wasting his
>> time, instead of seeking the face of his Maker.
>>
>> Another life wasted and ruined by evolution and that evil Atheist,
>> Charles Darwin.
>
> and willing his evil little vengeance-monkey god to make people
> suffer.
>
> You are a piece of shit, Ray.
I have had ample reason to despise Christianity in my recent past and I
do very much, but I still do not see Ray's behavior here on this thread
and others as representative of Christianity. He's on a level far
removed from most other Christians.
*Hemidactylus*
> Ray Martinez<pyram...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> Another life wasted and ruined by evolution and that evil Atheist,
>> Charles Darwin.
>
> it was meant in a totally un-Christian and morally evil way.
>
> My condolences on your loss. Having buried a parent it is not
> easy; your father will be missed.
>
Regardless of faith or lack of faith those of us who have lost parents
can deeply empathize with others in the same boat. This empathy crosses
all divides on other more topical issues. This thread demonstrates that
there exist those rare outliers who lack empathy and tact.
*Hemidactylus*
> On Jan 23, 6:14 pm, *Hemidactylus*<ecpho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jan 22, 4:02 pm, el cid<elcidbi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
>>>> an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
>>>> arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
>>>> The following are his words.
>>
>>>> I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
>>>> a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
>>>> more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
>>>> in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
>>>> talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
>>>> own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
>>>> the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
>>>> your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
>>>> effective. Thanks for all.
>>
>>> How pathetically sad; with only days to live, El Cid was here at
>>> Talk.Origins defending and promoting evolutionary theory, wasting his
>>> time, instead of seeking the face of his Maker.
>>
>>> Charles Darwin.
>>
>> discussion with the regulars here, many of whom he might have gotten
>> some measure of inspiration or joy from. Don't make an issue over it
>> Ray. This is not the time nor place to pee in a fan. You have the
>> uncanny ability to say impolite things that will rub many people (even
>> those on your side of the aisle) the wrong way. Please learn to exercise
>> some social graces.
>>
>> *Hemidactylus*
>> Chief Pastor
>> United Church of Jesus Christ the Procrastinator
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> bumped into him on the street----so stop acting like you knew him.
I would have rather known El Cid than you.
> Now, back to my points: El Cid knew he was dying, yet he was here at
> Talk.Origins wasting his final days and hours promoting and defending
> evolutionary theory----WHY?
He had passion? It gave him some comfort to talk with others he had
developed a rapport with on this group? He stubbornly refused to give in
to the monster that is cancer!!!!
> Answer: Because evolution says the God of Genesis does not exist----
> that's why he was here wasting his final days and hours instead of
> seeking the face of his Maker.
>
> How pathetic!
El Cid's posting here in his last days was heroic and inspiring.
Pathetic is your behavior on this thread. There are other applicable
adjectives like appalling, disgusting, hateful, nasty, horrible,
insensitive, unchristian, sad, disturbing and many others.
> The concept of Intelligent design is seen in every aspect of nature
> with the naked eye. El Cid, like all Darwinists, was a fucking liar/
> deluded moron. I couldn't give a damn about his son posting some
> stupid "farewell/last wish" message. Everyone needs to see, in the
> actions of El Cid, that evolutionary theory says God does not exist.
> That's why all you stupid evil Atheists are Darwinists.
>
> The observation of Intelligent design, seen in every aspect of nature,
> says the Genesis Creator does indeed exist. You are more upset with
> the passing of some anonymous person than the lie of evolution and its
> denial of ID. Whattaworld.
It is sad to see anyone pass. Someone had the respect to honor their
father's wishes to notify those he had corresponded with in the past
that he will no longer take part in the group because of terminal
illness having taken its toll. I have lost both parents and I for one
can empathize with El Cid's son's loss and I find your behavior beyond
the pale. How sad that you would twist this thread of loss and
condolence to your agenda.
Moist Lipwig
news:cd58e6b6-487a-47ee...@k42g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
> an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
> arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
> The following are his words.
>
> I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
> a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
> more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
> in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
> talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
> own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
> the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
> your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
> effective. Thanks for all.
>
Such incredibly sad news. Please accept my deepest condolences on
your loss and my thanks for your kindness in fulfilling his request
when you are surely burdened with great sorrow.
Kindest Regards,
--
We're not yet gods, but can already do
many things people once thought only
gods could do. - Ashleigh Brilliant
Mephistopheles
> an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
> arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
> The following are his words.
>
> I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
> a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
> more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
> in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
> talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
> own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
> the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
> your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
> effective. Thanks for all.
I have been a lurker here for quite some time, but I felt the need to
de-cloak and express my condolences as well. Through all the noise, El
Cid's posts always rang out clear. This group is lesser because of
his parting, yet greater due to his contributions. I shall miss
reading his posts.
M
jillery
> On Jan 24, 3:14 pm, jillery <69jpi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 24, 1:39 pm, Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
>
> > > On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 20:21:00 -0800 (PST), the following
> > > appeared in talk.origins, posted by jillery
> > > <69jpi...@gmail.com>:
>
> > > >On Jan 23, 8:22 pm, pnyikos <nyik...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > > >> This is at most the third time I've posted on a Sunday since I resumed
> > > >> posting in 2008 after a 7+ year absence from Usenet, but I think the
> > > >> occasion is worthy of it.
>
> > > >> I'm glad I got a chance to discuss and debate with el cid before his
> > > >> death. Even though he and I had some harsh words for each other from
> > > >> time to time, he was still the best person for discussions of
> > > >> abiogenesis and biochemistry, and his loss leaves a void which I fear
> > > >> no one will be able to fill. I will therefore miss him very much.
>
> > > >> > > According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
> > > >> > > an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
> > > >> > > arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
> > > >> > > The following are his words.
>
> > > >> > > I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
> > > >> > > a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
> > > >> > > more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
> > > >> > > in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
> > > >> > > talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
> > > >> > > own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
> > > >> > > the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
> > > >> > > your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
> > > >> > > effective. Thanks for all.
>
> > > >> relaying it.
>
> > > >> > How pathetically sad; with only days to live, El Cid was here at
> > > >> > Talk.Origins defending and promoting evolutionary theory, wasting his
> > > >> > time, instead of seeking the face of his Maker.
>
> > > >> God writes straight in crooked ways. If God indeed exists, I pray el
> > > >> cid will obtain mercy from Him for all the good he has done in his
> > > >> life, even while having no idea Whose path he was following when doing
> > > >> good.
>
> > > >> > Another life wasted and ruined by evolution and that evil Atheist,
> > > >> > Charles Darwin.
>
>
> > > >> His ideas had many evil consequences,
>
> > > >Identify and substantiate just one.
>
> > > Eugenics, especially as practiced in the 1930s and 1940s in
> > > Germany; substantiation is left as an exercise for the
> > > reader. Note that Peter didn't say that the consequences
> > > derived from *valid* application of Darwin's ideas.
>
> > I see you interpreted "his" to refer to Darwin, while I interpreted
> > "his" to refer to El Cid.
>
> Of course, I meant Darwin. Read Ray's last sentence, and mark well
> whom the label "evil Atheist" is attached to.
>
> >On reflection, both equally valid and
>
> > interesting.
>
> Do you dispute what Bob Casanova wrote? Herbert Spencer's take on
> Darwin was far from beneficial, although I'd have to make a much
> deeper study of it to pronounce it "evil"--and maybe that is not the
> right label for Spencer's ideas.
Of course not. Eugenics is not a valid application of Darwin's
evolution. I dispute what you wrote. Since you asserted there are
many evil consequences, surely you can identify one of your own.
> > > >> but that is a reflection on the
> > > >> evil uses to which they were put and not to the ideas themselves nor
> > > >> to the man himself, who I doubt was an actual atheist.
>
> Peter Nyikos- Hide quoted text -
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by jillery
Aha! Yes, I did, since the preceding comment was about
Darwin and the continuation below seemed to refer to Darwin.
> On reflection, both equally valid and
>interesting.
Valid questions, but I've seen no evil consequences
resulting from el cid's posts (unless Ray responded to one
of them; always an evil consequence).
>> >> but that is a reflection on the
>> >> evil uses to which they were put and not to the ideas themselves nor
>> >> to the man himself, who I doubt was an actual atheist.
>>
>> >> Peter Nyikos- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> --
>>
>> Bob C.
>>
>> "Evidence confirming an observation is
>> evidence that the observation is wrong."
>> - McNameless- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by Ray Martinez
<pyram...@yahoo.com>:
>On Jan 24, 10:37 am, Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 18:57:38 -0800 (PST), the following
>> appeared in talk.origins, posted by chris thompson
>> <chris.linthomp...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >On Jan 23, 7:39 pm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> On Jan 22, 4:02 pm, el cid <elcidbi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> > According to my fathers last wishes I am relaying this message using
>> >> > an anonymous email account he used. He passed away from complications
>> >> > arising from his struggle with pancreatic cancer on Jan. 18th, 2011.
>> >> > The following are his words.
>>
>> >> > I have greatly enjoyed the time I've spend reading and conversing with
>> >> > a diverse and storied cast of characters. It was often enlightening,
>> >> > more often entertaining, and frequently eye opening. Some strange eddy
>> >> > in the universe brought together a rather remarkable collection of
>> >> > talent, perhaps overly proud of their preposterous puns, and for my
>> >> > own feeble efforts on that front I humble seek forgiveness. Keep up
>> >> > the good work but do keep a check on the more virulent crusaders in
>> >> > your midst. The calm and patient voices were always the most
>> >> > effective. Thanks for all.
>>
>> >> How pathetically sad; with only days to live, El Cid was here at
>> >> Talk.Origins defending and promoting evolutionary theory, wasting his
>> >> time, instead of seeking the face of his Maker.
>>
>> >> Another life wasted and ruined by evolution and that evil Atheist,
>> >> Charles Darwin.
>> >Am I mistaken?
>>
>> >Has Ray sunk lower than ever?
>>
>> >A good man died, Ray.
>>
>> >Why is it you cannot even pass on condolences?
>>
>> >In the words of another famous person, "Have you no shame? At the end
>> >of the day, sir, have you no shame?"
>>
>> >Ray, please think about this. A person is dead, from a horrible
>> >disease, and all you can provide is invective? Please, think about
>> >this. Your reply is that of a monster.
>> His reply is that of a smug, self-righteous and hypocritical
>> religious fundamentalist which, since that's what he is,
>> should be no surprise.
>The Fundies accept microevolution, limited macoevolution and natural
>selection; young earth and the Republican Party.
>
>I reject all evolution and natural selection; accept an old earth and
>I support Obama and Pelosi 99% of the time.
>
>Scientifically, Bob, the Fundies are in Darwin's bed (Thank God)!
>
>You are just lashing out in misdirected anger.
I'm not angry, Ray; you disgust me rather than anger me. I
leave irrational tirades to you.
Oh, and thanks for confirming my statement regarding your
personality.
Bob Casanova
in talk.origins, posted by Tom McDonald
<tmcdon...@charter.net>:
>On 1/24/2011 6:15 PM, Ray Martinez wrote:
>
>I see. You're nothing more than a Westboro Baptist Church kind of Christian.
>
>You have no understanding of Christ or His message. I pray for you.
Be prepared to be labeled by Ray as a non-Christian, and
quite possibly as an atheist. "Atheist", to Ray, means
anyone who doesn't agree with Ray; it has nothing to do with
religious belief or lack thereof.