Plz stop the T.O. server and listen
spintronic
This sight however is not about getting even.
I have given away, free knowledge.
In the hope one person would listen. (nobody did)
I will keep giving away free knowledge until somebody does.
I know of 2 regenerative companies fighting for survival.
One went from -2 to 12 dollars a share. overnight.
The other sounds like "germ" on the exchange.
John Harshman
> Many of you hate me, but I hate you so we're even.
I doubt any of us hate you. We find you annoying. If you really hate
anyone based on a usenet post, you have big psychological problems.
J.J. O'Shea
(in article
<10259827-e15e-4554...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>):
> Many of you hate me, but I hate you so we're even.
Most of us find you mildly amusing, especially when you make wild threats
that you couldn't carry out in a million years. Where's my DOS attack,
spinny?
>
> This sight however is not about getting even.
>
> I have given away, free knowledge.
No, you haven't.
>
> In the hope one person would listen. (nobody did)
Not even madman/uriel/asi? And this didn't tell you something?
>
> I will keep giving away free knowledge until somebody does.
Ah. We're gonna be amused for a while yet, then.
>
> I know of 2 regenerative companies fighting for survival.
>
> One went from -2 to 12 dollars a share. overnight.
>
> The other sounds like "germ" on the exchange.
>
And he's babbling again...
--
email to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com.
Robert Camp
> Many of you hate me, but I hate you so we're even.
No, spinny, I don't hate you, I pity you.
> This sight however is not about getting even.
>
> I have given away, free knowledge.
>
> In the hope one person would listen. (nobody did)
>
> I will keep giving away free knowledge until somebody does.
>
> I know of 2 regenerative companies fighting for survival.
>
> One went from -2 to 12 dollars a share. overnight.
>
> The other sounds like "germ" on the exchange.
Hmmm...investment advice from someone I -
- am familiar with only by way of usenet
- gather is a substance abuser,
- suspect is mentally impaired,
- know is emotionally unstable.
What could possibly go wrong?
RLC
John Harshman
Would that be better or worse than getting your advice from a respected
authority like Bernie Madoff?
Inez
> Many of you hate me, but I hate you so we're even.
I doubt very many people on this group care that much one way or
another.
> This sight however is not about getting even.
>
> I have given away, free knowledge.
>
> In the hope one person would listen. (nobody did)
>
> I will keep giving away free knowledge until somebody does.
>
> I know of 2 regenerative companies fighting for survival.
>
> One went from -2 to 12 dollars a share. overnight.
I hope you bought a couple billion shares at -2 dollars a share, then
you could afford some drug rehab.
spintronic
> On 2009-11-19 17:16:46 -0800, spintronic <spintro...@hotmail.com> said:
>
> > Many of you hate me, but I hate you so we're even.
>
> No, spinny, I don't hate you, I pity you.
>
> > This sight however is not about getting even.
>
> > I have given away, free knowledge.
>
> > In the hope one person would listen. (nobody did)
>
> > I will keep giving away free knowledge until somebody does.
>
> > I know of 2 regenerative companies fighting for survival.
>
> > One went from -2 to 12 dollars a share. overnight.
>
> > The other sounds like "germ" on the exchange.
>
> Hmmm...investment advice from someone I -
>
> - am familiar with only by way of usenet
> - gather is a substance abuser,
> - suspect is mentally impaired,
> - know is emotionally unstable.
.
> What could possibly go wrong?
>
> RLC
Nothing, it's a biotech/evolutionary based firm
There are 3.primes & 2 are public 1 is private.
Gern http://www.google.co.uk/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:GERN
Is about to get FDA approval for spinal regeneration, and Reneuron,
went from 0 to 12 dollars in one day.
"Synthetic genomics" (The [I wish you would go public] company)
Is about to solve the worlds energy crisis.
It's your money not mine.
Robert Camp
Well, the evolutionist in me wants to say worse, but frankly Bernie
Madoff is an example of one of those few moments in this life where I,
if only for a moment, begin to imagine that *Evil* might actually exist.
Desertphile
<spint...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Many of you hate me, but I hate you so we're even.
You have confused pity with "hate." Occult-befuddled retards do
that often.
--
http://desertphile.org
Desertphile's Desert Soliloquy. WARNING: view with plenty of water
"Why aren't resurrections from the dead noteworthy?" -- Jim Rutz
Boikat
> Many of you hate me, but I hate you so we're even.
Spinny, if people "hated you", they would totally ignore you.
>
> This sight however is not about getting even.
Nobody ever said it was.
>
> I have given away, free knowledge.
Not that I've seen.
>
> In the hope one person would listen. (nobody did)
That should tell you something.
>
> I will keep giving away free knowledge until somebody does.
That's the spirit! Besides, you're not as boreing as adman.
>
> I know of 2 regenerative companies fighting for survival.
>
> One went from -2 to 12 dollars a share. overnight.
>
> The other sounds like "germ" on the exchange.
Whatever your problems are, I hope you get well.
Boikat
chris thompson
> On 2009-11-19 18:47:18 -0800, John Harshman <jharsh...@pacbell.net> said:
>
>
>
> > Robert Camp wrote:
>
> >>> Many of you hate me, but I hate you so we're even.
>
> >> No, spinny, I don't hate you, I pity you.
>
> >>> This sight however is not about getting even.
>
> >>> I have given away, free knowledge.
>
> >>> In the hope one person would listen. (nobody did)
>
> >>> I will keep giving away free knowledge until somebody does.
>
> >>> I know of 2 regenerative companies fighting for survival.
>
> >>> One went from -2 to 12 dollars a share. overnight.
>
> >>> The other sounds like "germ" on the exchange.
>
> >> Hmmm...investment advice from someone I -
>
> >> - am familiar with only by way of usenet
> >> - gather is a substance abuser,
> >> - suspect is mentally impaired,
> >> - know is emotionally unstable.
>
> >> What could possibly go wrong?
>
> > Would that be better or worse than getting your advice from a respected
> > authority like Bernie Madoff?
>
> Well, the evolutionist in me wants to say worse, but frankly Bernie
> Madoff is an example of one of those few moments in this life where I,
> if only for a moment, begin to imagine that *Evil* might actually exist.
Really?
I thought Madoff was a picayune kind of criminal. Sure, he dealt in
millions of dollars, but his whole scam was taking money from people
who wanted to get something for nothing. In the words of my NYPD
detective brother-in-law, "no one ever got scammed who didn't want
it". In other words, these people thought they were getting something
too good to be true.
How you can think Madoff is more "evil" than, say, your average serial
killer is beyond me. And yes, I think serial killers are insane. But I
do not think insanity and evil are mutually exclusive. In fact, I am
coming to think that if you are evil, you pretty much have to be
insane.
Chris
Robert Camp
<chris.li...@gmail.com> said:
It's not something I'd go to the mat over, but yes, really.
> I thought Madoff was a picayune kind of criminal. Sure, he dealt in
> millions of dollars, but his whole scam was taking money from people
> who wanted to get something for nothing. In the words of my NYPD
> detective brother-in-law, "no one ever got scammed who didn't want
> it".
If you believe that, then it's easy to dismiss the magnitude of
Madoff's crime. I don't believe it, I think it's startlingly simplistic.
> In other words, these people thought they were getting something
> too good to be true.
Possibly, to the degree they actually thought about it.
> How you can think Madoff is more "evil" than, say, your average serial
> killer is beyond me.
In placing the relative "evils" on a continuum your question misses the
fact that my point was to distinguish evil (societal immorality) from
Evil (transcendent malevolence). No, I'm not saying that Madoff is more
socially destructive than a serial killer, I'm saying that it's harder,
at a glance, for me to imagine his crime's cause as the result of
physiological error than the former (though, as I implied before, I
accept that it's true of both).
> And yes, I think serial killers are insane. But I
> do not think insanity and evil are mutually exclusive. In fact, I am
> coming to think that if you are evil, you pretty much have to be
> insane.
Well that's certainly not a point in dispute. And of course I don't
believe in any external, transcendent Evil. What set Madoff apart, for
me, was the apparent unbridled avarice, the calmly considered gluttony
- above and apart from any possible use of the resulting wealth. It
just seemed, at first blush, to be beyond emotional instability or
neural wiring gone awry, it seemed inexplicable.
RLC
Paul Ciszek
In article <8b11c9a1-6109-4dc7...@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
chris thompson <chris.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Really?
>
>I thought Madoff was a picayune kind of criminal. Sure, he dealt in
>millions of dollars, but his whole scam was taking money from people
>who wanted to get something for nothing. In the words of my NYPD
>detective brother-in-law, "no one ever got scammed who didn't want
>it". In other words, these people thought they were getting something
>too good to be true.
Some of Madoff's victims entrusted their retirment funds to money managers
that had been recommended by friends or relatives, and these managers in
turn invested in Madoff, leaving the retirees bankrupt. You *can* cheat
an honest person. You especially can cheat an honest and charitable person,
but that is another topic.
--
Please reply to: | "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is
pciszek at panix dot com | indistinguishable from malice."
Autoreply is disabled |
Paul Ciszek
In article <2009111920515616807-robertlcamp@hotmailcom>,
Robert Camp <rober...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>believe in any external, transcendent Evil. What set Madoff apart, for
>me, was the apparent unbridled avarice, the calmly considered gluttony
>- above and apart from any possible use of the resulting wealth. It
>just seemed, at first blush, to be beyond emotional instability or
>neural wiring gone awry, it seemed inexplicable.
How much would it cost a man to have a different attractive young woman
copulate with him every day of his life, and hire a private chef to
cook the most decadent cuisine imaginable, while living in Hawaii,
the south coast of France, or somewhere equally desirable? I would
propose that as the upper limit to any sort of "rational" avarice.
I don't know if boats, cars, or drugs could add up to enough to even
double that figure, and many vices are going to take time or ability
away from other vices, keeping the total cost down.
Friar Broccoli
[snip]
> Well that's certainly not a point in dispute. And of course I don't
> believe in any external, transcendent Evil. What set Madoff apart, for
> me, was the apparent unbridled avarice, the calmly considered gluttony
> - above and apart from any possible use of the resulting wealth. It
> just seemed, at first blush, to be beyond emotional instability or
> neural wiring gone awry, it seemed inexplicable.
Odd, I see nothing at all that is even slightly difficult to explain
or
understand (although my "understanding" may be completely wrong).
Madoff wanted to be a powerful, important and respected member of his
community - a kind of Warren Buffet wanna-be with the needed social
skills, but without the needed analytic skills.
He (I imagine) started off as an investment manager, and offered
higher
returns to attract more capital/investors expecting he could make
brilliant investments and make everyone happy. Gradually however the
money hole got deeper and deeper so he had to attract ever more
investors to fill the gap.
Switching metaphors, he gradually awoke to the knowledge that he was
riding the tiger, and couldn't figure out how to get off. I see no
malice at all, just the effects of hubris carried to the extreme.
Rodjk #613
wrote:
It sounds like anyone who invests money is asking to get scammed, per
your definition. I cannot agree with that.
Rodjk #613
All-Seeing-I
>
> - Show quoted text -
That was very well put Chris.
All-Seeing-I
> On 2009-11-19 19:56:28 -0800, chris thompson
>
> - Show quoted text -
There is transcendent Evil. Hitler is one example of this
transcendent influence.
How else could you explain an obscure, relatively uneducated, low
ranking military figure rising to such great influence within such a
short time and doing do so much destruction on a world wide basis?
Then you have the other side of the coin where someone like Jesus, who
was also an obscure unknown, rising to great influence that still has
an impact even today.
Evil is real. It is as real as any kindness. Both are acted out by man
every day because man is influenced by transcendent Evil and
transcendent Good every day.
Therefore, Spiritual warfare is real. The "helmet of Salvation" and
the "breastplate of Righteousness" are included in the Messianic
prophecy of Isaiah 59:17, which predates the Roman Republic and its
legionary army calling into question its inspiration. (another bible
prophesy that came true)
The Sumerians mention the watchers each taking a part of the earth to
rule and this is know as a Territorial Spirit today.
Paul of Taurus addressed this Spiritual warfare in depth.
<quote>
"11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand
against the devil's schemes.
12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the
rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world
and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil
comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done
everything, to stand.
14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist,
with the breastplate of righteousness in place,
15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the
gospel of peace.
16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you
can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is
the word of God.
18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers
and requests."
</quote>
And, of course Jesus was well aware of the spiritual influences acting
upon man too when he told his disciples to "wake up. Satan desires to
sift you like wheat". Which is a rather interesting play on words
since the children of God are called (metaphorically)"wheat"
Now, I realize that most of you will not believe me. But you now know
how to defeat true and pure evil should the need ever arise in your
life or at the moment of death.
Let's hope it never does.
Mitchell Coffey
Shares are not priced in the negative numbers.
Friar Broccoli
.
> Now, I realize that most of you will not believe me. But you now know
> how to defeat true and pure evil
A clear plurality of old books recommend garlic.
Andre Lieven
> In article <2009111920515616807-robertlcamp@hotmailcom>,
>
>
>
> >believe in any external, transcendent Evil. What set Madoff apart, for
> >me, was the apparent unbridled avarice, the calmly considered gluttony
> >- above and apart from any possible use of the resulting wealth. It
> >just seemed, at first blush, to be beyond emotional instability or
> >neural wiring gone awry, it seemed inexplicable.
>
> How much would it cost a man to have a different attractive young woman
> copulate with him every day of his life, and hire a private chef to
> cook the most decadent cuisine imaginable, while living in Hawaii,
> the south coast of France, or somewhere equally desirable? I would
> propose that as the upper limit to any sort of "rational" avarice.
>
> I don't know if boats, cars, or drugs could add up to enough to even
> double that figure, and many vices are going to take time or ability
> away from other vices, keeping the total cost down.
While I quite agree with your position, I have to point out that many
of
the uber rich don't see it anywhere close to that way. Rather, they
see
it as, if they have five houses, that's better than having four.
Have you seen the level at which the biggest yachts have arrived at ?
Onassis' old yacht, the Christina, a former Canadian Navy WW2 frigate,
is still operated: Yachting Partners and Camper Nicholsons charter it
for 315.000 euros in low season and 455.000 during the high season.
http://www.superyachtsreview.com/charter-with-pedigree_id16990/introduction_id227177
Or, two larger ex frigates, former Cold War Dutch missile frigates,
are
presently being converted into super yachts:
"Abu Dhabi MAR has four yachts under construction. The Swift141 and
Swift
135 are conversion of Dutch-built navy frigates, 462 and 442 feet in
length
respectively. The Swift141, set for launch later this year, is shaped
and
styled by Pierrejean Design Studio in Paris."
http://www.superyachttimes.com/editorial/14/article/id/3197
I cna guarantee that a charter of one of those will have a bill that
dwarfs
the price of the old Christina.
Or, consider that the top end of private planes is here:
"Genesis Custom Jetliners transforms high quality, previously-
operated
airliners into private, luxury travel suites designed to your
specifications."
http://www.genesiscustomjet.com/
The prices for such will make the old first class tickets on the
Concorde look like lost pocket change.
These are points that indicate that the way that many of the uber
rich see their world is so alien to how 99.9% of the rest of us have
to see it, that there is very little meaningful ability to communicate
across that divide.
Here's how the new top guy at AiG lives:
"That's probably why he gave a long interview to Reuters from his
12 bathroom Croatian coastal villa to help reassure anxious people
back in the U.S. that he's the right man for the job."
http://www.businessinsider.com/new-aig-ceo-says-hes-really-working-on-vacation-2009-8
The uber rich don't see their positions in any menaingful way as
comparable to anyone else who isn't also uber rich...
Andre
Vend
I don't think so.
If a shady guy in the street approaches you and offers to give you 200
$ tomorrow for 100 $ today and you accept the deal, then you are
asking to be scammed.
But Madoff was a respected investment manager, operating for a long
time under the eye of control agencies which never found anything
wrong.
People could reasonable believe he was investing their money in some
legitimate business.
Stuart
> Many of you hate me, but I hate you so we're even.
We don't hate you.
We pity you.
Stuart
Stuart
Not with those returns.
If its too good to be true.. it isn't true.
Stuart
Dave Oldridge
9d01-e68...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
>Many of you hate me, but I hate you so we're even.
A lot of us just pity you. Your hate is your own problem. It is bad for
the body, though, and somewhat addictive. It can kill you.
>
>This sight however is not about getting even.
Who has wronged you? How?
>I have given away, free knowledge.
No, actually you have given away your opinions. A lot of people do that.
>In the hope one person would listen. (nobody did)
Maybe if you backed your opinions with real evidence, you would find some
traction. However, I have the feeling that if you honestly soght real
evidence for your opinions, you would be forced to change them.
>I will keep giving away free knowledge until somebody does.
Listening does not mean accepting your falsehoods.
>
>I know of 2 regenerative companies fighting for survival.
>
>One went from -2 to 12 dollars a share. overnight.
>
>The other sounds like "germ" on the exchange.
Huh? Relevance?
--
Dave Oldridge+
Walter Bushell
John Harshman <jhar...@pacbell.net> wrote:
Or dietary advice from the American Heart Association. They seem to have
endorsed as heart healthy Calvin's favorite Chocolate Sugar Bombs.
Nothing wrong with chocolate, of course.
Or blood from the American Red Cross, Dog help you if you do.
--
A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.
Walter Bushell
Robert Camp <rober...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Well, the evolutionist in me wants to say worse, but frankly Bernie
> Madoff is an example of one of those few moments in this life where I,
> if only for a moment, begin to imagine that *Evil* might actually exist.
Form over substance. He got to play the role of a rich mensch for
decades, and once he started he had to keep going or go to jail. He rode
the tiger and the tiger ate him. But, many people will think he made a
good trade. He had an adult lifetime at the top, and a few years in
prison is not, to a sufficiently jejune and callow person, reason to
give the "rewards" up. Many would gladly accept a deal like that.
Paul J Gans
I agree with you. In an era when one could buy a million dollar
house with no money down and sell it two years later for 1.5
million, who could see the problem with a guy who promised 10%
or 20% returns annually?
Of course it was a scam. So was the housing market. No always
increasing scheme can last forever.
--
--- Paul J. Gans
Ye Old One
Where do you get the idea that he was uneducated?
> low
>ranking military figure
But highly decorated.
> rising to such great influence within such a
>short time
He was only the 55th member of the part, it was easy to rise to number
one.
> and doing do so much destruction on a world wide basis?
>
>Then you have the other side of the coin where someone like Jesus, who
>was also an obscure unknown, rising to great influence that still has
>an impact even today.
>Evil is real. It is as real as any kindness. Both are acted out by man
>every day because man is influenced by transcendent Evil and
>transcendent Good every day.
>
>Therefore, Spiritual warfare is real. The "helmet of Salvation" and
>the "breastplate of Righteousness" are included in the Messianic
>prophecy of Isaiah 59:17, which predates the Roman Republic and its
>legionary army calling into question its inspiration. (another bible
>prophesy that came true)
What did?
>
>The Sumerians mention the watchers each taking a part of the earth to
>rule and this is know as a Territorial Spirit today.
Is it?
>
>Paul of Taurus addressed this Spiritual warfare in depth.
><quote>
>"11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand
>against the devil's schemes.
>
>12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the
>rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world
>and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
>
>therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil
>comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done
>everything, to stand.
>
>14Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist,
>with the breastplate of righteousness in place,
>
>15and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the
>gospel of peace.
>
>16In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you
>can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
>
>17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is
>the word of God.
>
>18And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers
>and requests."
></quote>
Fairy tales.
>
>And, of course Jesus was well aware of the spiritual influences acting
>upon man too when he told his disciples to "wake up. Satan desires to
>sift you like wheat". Which is a rather interesting play on words
>since the children of God are called (metaphorically)"wheat"
Are they?
>
>Now, I realize that most of you will not believe me.
Given your past record of lies, if you said that grass is green I
would have to go and check.
> But you now know
>how to defeat true and pure evil should the need ever arise in your
>life or at the moment of death.
Yep, to defeat pure evil I reject your fictional gods.
>
>
>
>Let's hope it never does.
--
Bob.
People may not always remember exactly what you said, but they will
always remember just how bright you made them feel.
air
>
> The uber rich don't see their positions in any menaingful way as
> comparable to anyone else who isn't also uber rich...
>
> Andre
Wow - I had no idea Answers in Genesis was so profitable!
Walter Bushell
<8b11c9a1-6109-4dc7...@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
chris thompson <chris.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
He was a topmost respectable gentleman with extraordinary credentials.
His rates of return were high, but someone might have thought he had a
method that returned that. When asked how he did it he said something
like, 'If I told that everyone would do it and it would no longer
work.", which is not unreasonable.
Many people would be just to busy with their lives to fully investigate
and he had that covered.
I just received a newsletter (From Al Sears MD) that states that
prosecutors have found faked experiments for ynthetic hormone drugs
Premarin and Prempro. which were ghost written and paid for by the drug
company and turned over to doctors to sign.
see
<http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/05/health/research/05ghost.html?scp=1&sq=
Prempro%20Premarin%20%20Wyeth&st=cse>
Banderdash! If you can't trust published papers, what can you trust?
>In the words of my NYPD
> detective brother-in-law, "no one ever got scammed who didn't want
> it". In other words, these people thought they were getting something
> too good to be true.
>
> How you can think Madoff is more "evil" than, say, your average serial
> killer is beyond me. And yes, I think serial killers are insane. But I
> do not think insanity and evil are mutually exclusive. In fact, I am
> coming to think that if you are evil, you pretty much have to be
> insane.
>
> Chris
--
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by spintronic
<spint...@hotmail.com>:
>Many of you hate me, but I hate you so we're even.
I doubt anyone hates you; I certainly don't. Most probably
find you illogical and disagreeable, but that's not hate
(except possibly to religious fanatics).
If you genuinely "hate" those who disagree with you, you
need to seek help; it's pathological.
<snip>
--
Bob C.
"Evidence confirming an observation is
evidence that the observation is wrong."
- McNameless
David Iain Greig
> spintronic wrote:
>> Many of you hate me, but I hate you so we're even.
>
> anyone based on a usenet post, you have big psychological problems.
>
Nobody hated Ted, not even Tim T.
Jabriol, on the other hand, I despise.
--D.
bpuharic
>
>transcendent influence.
what does 'transcendent' in this context mean?
>
>How else could you explain an obscure, relatively uneducated, low
>ranking military figure rising to such great influence within such a
>short time and doing do so much destruction on a world wide basis?
it's much, much too common. stalin. sadam hussein...all it takes is
the will to be more ruthless than anyone else
>
>Therefore, Spiritual warfare is real. The "helmet of Salvation" and
>the "breastplate of Righteousness" are included in the Messianic
>prophecy of Isaiah 59:17, which predates the Roman Republic and its
>legionary army calling into question its inspiration. (another bible
>prophesy that came true)
>
>The Sumerians mention the watchers each taking a part of the earth to
>rule and this is know as a Territorial Spirit today.
>
>Paul of Taurus addressed this Spiritual warfare in depth.
><quote>
ironic given that paul is one of the most evil men in history, given
his justification of slavery
>
>Now, I realize that most of you will not believe me. But you now know
>how to defeat true and pure evil should the need ever arise in your
>life or at the moment of death.
>
ironic that the greatest acts of genocide in history have occurred in
christian countries.
Bob Casanova
appeared in talk.origins, posted by David Iain Greig
<dgr...@ediacara.org>:
Can't argue with that, but Jabbers is an extreme case.
Walter Bushell
That was a comment in my text book in electronics effectively said.
Actually more like 'physical systems that are modeled by differential
equations whose solution has a coefficient of the exponential function
that has a positive real part either enter a mode of operation where
that equation no longer applies or destroys itself.'
Mitchell Coffey
> In article <he6ogg$qo...@reader1.panix.com>,
I've been reacquainting myself lately with macroeconomic theory, after
a 25 year hiatus. It's not pretty. I'm sure it's my ignorance, but
even someone like Paul Krugman seems to believe that the explanation
for the occasional colapsed financial markets suffered by capitalist
economies is the irrationality of investors, individual or as a
group. As framed by Krugman, the debate within the economics
profession is between those who believe capital markets always reflect
the right prices, and those who believe in the occasional, but
significant periods of wrongly priced investment instruments due to
development of irrational investment cultures. Yet the mathematical
phenomenon you point out can be trivially inserted into standard
economic models, resulting in systematically wrong long-term prices
and market collapses, while investors remain in the economic sense
perfectly rational.
Mitchell Coffey
Walter Bushell
<106f132d-0e9b-41d6...@k9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
Mitchell Coffey <m.co...@starpower.net> wrote:
Wherein irrationality brings in profits inclusive or continued
employment, tis folly to be rational.
Paul J Gans
> Mitchell Coffey <m.co...@starpower.net> wrote:
>> On Nov 23, 8:36?am, Walter Bushell <pr...@panix.com> wrote:
>> > In article <he6ogg$qo...@reader1.panix.com>,
>> > ?Paul J Gans <gan...@panix.com> wrote:
>> > > Rodjk #613 <rjka...@gmail.com> wrote:
[big snip]
>> > That was a comment in my text book in electronics effectively said.
>> > Actually more like 'physical systems that are modeled by differential
>> > equations whose solution has a coefficient of the exponential function ?
>> > that has a positive real part either enter a mode of operation where
>> > that equation no longer applies or destroys itself.'
I missed Mitchell's response and so am mainly piggybacking here
>> I've been reacquainting myself lately with macroeconomic theory, after
>> a 25 year hiatus. It's not pretty. I'm sure it's my ignorance, but
>> even someone like Paul Krugman seems to believe that the explanation
>> for the occasional colapsed financial markets suffered by capitalist
>> economies is the irrationality of investors, individual or as a
>> group. As framed by Krugman, the debate within the economics
>> profession is between those who believe capital markets always reflect
>> the right prices, and those who believe in the occasional, but
>> significant periods of wrongly priced investment instruments due to
>> development of irrational investment cultures. Yet the mathematical
>> phenomenon you point out can be trivially inserted into standard
>> economic models, resulting in systematically wrong long-term prices
>> and market collapses, while investors remain in the economic sense
>> perfectly rational.
Isnt' there another way to look at things? One might expect that
capital markets would show increases AND decreases such that on
average the increase is either zero or sublinear with time.
I can think of one (possibly incorrect) way to do that: right now
we worship percentages. We feel that the more money we have invested,
the more money we should make, in proportion. That gives a fixed
percent return on investment which leads inevitably to an exponential
increase.
Now what happens if instead the government takes an ever growing
piece of the pie such that the investor is left with a profit
that increases with investment but in a sublinear manner. That
still leads to an ever-increasing market but does so at an enormously
slower rate. This has some interesting side effects, or so I would
think. But one good such effect is that the government ends up
taking more money from those who earn more.
>Wherein irrationality brings in profits inclusive or continued
>employment, tis folly to be rational.
Exactly, which is why one needs government limits. Crashes may be
inevitable, but they need not be catastrophic.
Robert Grumbine
But, but, but ... that would mean a _pro_gressive tax structure!
Can't have that; it ruined the economy in the 1950s when it was the
most progressive in history. It was only with the more regressive
structure in the Bush II presidency that the economy finally boomed.
Per the 1950s experiment, growth (at least in terms of that
old-fashioned notion of 'standard of living', vs. DJIA) actually did
quite well with a progressive tax.
There's actually a good evolutionary connection here. Or at least
I think there is, being untrammled by excess knowledge about either
finance or evolution.
Namely, (I'm told) if you take a plot of land and remove all
herbivores, just let the plants grow as they will, you wind up with
a certain level of diversity. That level is low. Mostly you've
got one successful plant and then a few species which eke out
precarious niche lives. Call that the untaxed system. Now
introduce herbivores. The level of diversity goes up. If one
plant species gets dominant, it makes sense for the herbivore
to graze preferentially on that dominant species. The dominant
species becomes less dominant and other species move in to the
system. Progressive tax system.
Recently I was at lunch with a small businessman. He was talking
about selling a product he'd invented. Nice invention (gadget to
chase deer away from your garden). But, of course, distribution
is an issue. If there were many small and mid-sized distributors
(which there turn out not to be), this small producer could talk
to them on more or less equal footing. As it is, he's talking to
gargantuan (multi-billion dollar) companies. With some grazing
that maintained business diversity, there'd be a diverse community
of distributors that a diverse community of producers could
interact with. And thence to greater profits for all. Instead,
there's a fair chance that, thanks to having skewed the business
climate to the giant companies, this small business will go nowhere.
>>Wherein irrationality brings in profits inclusive or continued
>>employment, tis folly to be rational.
>
> Exactly, which is why one needs government limits. Crashes may be
> inevitable, but they need not be catastrophic.
--
Robert Grumbine http://moregrumbinescience.blogspot.com/ Science blog
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences
Vend
Obviously the housing market was a pyramidal scam.
However, the people being scammed weren't those who were buying
houses, since they bought mostly with borrowed money. Those being
scammed were people lending money, through the convoluted system of
derivatives, which hid the actual risk of the investment.